"tert in seattle" > wrote in message
...
> writes:
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Jeneen Sommers wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Has anyone used All Clad cookie sheets? I'm thinking of getting some,
> >
> >Thanks for all the advice! I think I'll have to get one and see what I
> >think. They are expensive, but they are half off now, and if I end up
> >liking them and keeping them forever it'll be a worthwhile investment.
> >And probably cheaper than buying new aluminum pans every so often. I'll
> >post the results when I get it. Cookware & More is offering them for
> >half off, if anyone is interested:
> >
> >http://www.cookwarenmore.com/index.php
>
>
> we have a spammer folks!

I sincerely doubt that Jeneen is a spammer. I've been doing business with
them (Cookware and More) for years and have been very pleased. Good people
and very helpful over the phone. They are seconds, but the defect(s) are so
small you have to study whatever you've ordered carefully to find one. FWIW
I have the small cookie sheet, the jelly roll pan, and a meat loaf pan. All
very pretty and functional.

Chris in Pearland, TX

writes:
>
>
>On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, tert in seattle wrote:
>
>> writes:
>>
>> we have a spammer folks!
>>
>
>Wow...that was uncalled for. Cookware & More has come up many
>times in this newsgroup, and I have no affiliation with them.
>It was from this newsgroup that I learned about Cookware & More.

Okay, I believe you. You sure got a thing for brand names though.

But think for a minute - there were a lot of questions that went
unanswered, which you really should have answered, mainly about
what exactly is the yuckiness you're complaining about? And
why dismiss good old aluminum sheet pans when they work just
fine?

But there isn't enough of a pattern to call you a spammer and
I shouldn't have done that. My apologies.

On Tue 21 Mar 2006 11:26:51a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it tert in
seattle?

> writes:
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Jeneen Sommers wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone used All Clad cookie sheets? I'm thinking of getting some,
>>
>>Thanks for all the advice! I think I'll have to get one and see what I
>>think. They are expensive, but they are half off now, and if I end up
>>liking them and keeping them forever it'll be a worthwhile investment.
>>And probably cheaper than buying new aluminum pans every so often. I'll
>>post the results when I get it. Cookware & More is offering them for
>>half off, if anyone is interested:
>>
>>http://www.cookwarenmore.com/index.php
>
>
> we have a spammer folks!

Jeneen Sommers is no spammer. She's been on rfc a long time. The fact
that she may prefer certain brand names of cookware, or even prefer a
particular source for purchasing it does not make her or anyone else a
spammer.

the cookie sheets... I'm sure the All Clad sheet is a good product,
judging from the quality of their other cookware. However, since I use
anywhere from 4-6 cookie sheets at a time when I'm baking, even at half
price they are far more expensive than I can afford.

As to plain stainless steel or gold plate, consider that other gold-plated
items; e.g., jewelry, flatware, etc., do not wear particularly well under
use. As a metal, gold is an excellent heat conductor, but I don't know how
much it would contribute in a layer of plating.

Personally, I use heavy commercial aluminum cookie sheets and bake on
sheets of parchment. This provides good heat conductivity and non-stick
baking. SilPat or equivalent is another good choice. My cookie sheets are
washed in the dishwasher and have no residue on them. It's what i can
afford and it works for me.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> On Tue 21 Mar 2006 11:26:51a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it tert in
> seattle?
>
> > writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Jeneen Sommers wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Has anyone used All Clad cookie sheets? I'm thinking of getting some,
> >>
> >>Thanks for all the advice! I think I'll have to get one and see what I
> >>think. They are expensive, but they are half off now, and if I end up
> >>liking them and keeping them forever it'll be a worthwhile investment.
> >>And probably cheaper than buying new aluminum pans every so often. I'll
> >>post the results when I get it. Cookware & More is offering them for
> >>half off, if anyone is interested:
> >>
> >>http://www.cookwarenmore.com/index.php
> >
> >
> > we have a spammer folks!
>
> Jeneen Sommers is no spammer. She's been on rfc a long time. The fact
> that she may prefer certain brand names of cookware, or even prefer a
> particular source for purchasing it does not make her or anyone else a
> spammer.
>
> the cookie sheets... I'm sure the All Clad sheet is a good product,
> judging from the quality of their other cookware. However, since I use
> anywhere from 4-6 cookie sheets at a time when I'm baking, even at half
> price they are far more expensive than I can afford.
>
> As to plain stainless steel or gold plate, consider that other gold-plated
> items; e.g., jewelry, flatware, etc., do not wear particularly well under
> use. As a metal, gold is an excellent heat conductor, but I don't know how
> much it would contribute in a layer of plating.
>
> Personally, I use heavy commercial aluminum cookie sheets and bake on
> sheets of parchment. This provides good heat conductivity and non-stick
> baking. SilPat or equivalent is another good choice. My cookie sheets are
> washed in the dishwasher and have no residue on them. It's what i can
> afford and it works for me.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
> ________________________________________
>
> Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

As another poster noted, the "gold" All Clad bakeware is not gold
plated, it is a vapor deposited coating of some sort though the All Clad
site doesn't seem to say what the vapor deposited material actually is.
Unless it is a particularly soft material the durability should be very
good.

"All-Clad’s non-stick products feature a state-of-the art system rather
than a simple
coating. The non-stick on All-Clad is actually a reinforced process.
The surface of the
substrate is blasted with an abrasive, which prepares the surface for
better adherence.
White hot particles of stainless steel are then sprayed onto the
surface. Once these
particles cool and harden, they become part of the surface of the
substrate, and form a
series of "peaks and valleys". The first coat of non-stick is then
applied, settling down
into the valleys. A second coat of non-stick is then applied filling in
all of the valleys and
covering the peaks, forming an even surface for cooking. The coatings
are permanently
bonded to the surface for extreme durability."

Pete C.

writes:
>
>
>On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, tert in seattle wrote:
>> Okay, I believe you. You sure got a thing for brand names though.
>>
>> But think for a minute - there were a lot of questions that went
>> unanswered, which you really should have answered, mainly about
>> what exactly is the yuckiness you're complaining about? And
>> why dismiss good old aluminum sheet pans when they work just
>> fine?
>
>The aluminum seems to react to just about anything even slightly
>acidic and becomes discolored and pockmarked. I really don't
>know how they get so bad. I clean them spotlessly each
>time I use them. But over time, they become so
>discolored they look like they've contracted
>'cookie sheet leprosy' and I can't stand the sight of them.
>At least not in the kitchen...I still use them in the smoker
>as drip pans, which is fine. But I'd like to find a cookie
>sheet that isn't reactive.

Yes aluminum and acid don't mix very well. The acid always wins.
I've seen aluminum sheet pans with that icky whitish-gray disease
and it's not pretty. There is no such thing as parchment paper
with a lip and so unless you're really good with origami it won't
help much.

The reason the pans get so bad (as I understand it) is that aluminum
has an extremely high affinity for oxygen molecules and the surface
of an aluminum sheet pan normally has a very thin aluminum oxide
layer. Unlike oil or sugar or water or most substances that might
come into contact with the pan, acid penetrates the aluminum oxide
layer and reacts with the metallic aluminum underneath, resulting
in the corrosion that leaves the pan looking icky and your food
tasting metallic.

tert in seattle wrote:
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, tert in seattle wrote:
> >> Okay, I believe you. You sure got a thing for brand names though.
> >>
> >> But think for a minute - there were a lot of questions that went
> >> unanswered, which you really should have answered, mainly about
> >> what exactly is the yuckiness you're complaining about? And
> >> why dismiss good old aluminum sheet pans when they work just
> >> fine?
> >
> >The aluminum seems to react to just about anything even slightly
> >acidic and becomes discolored and pockmarked. I really don't
> >know how they get so bad. I clean them spotlessly each
> >time I use them. But over time, they become so
> >discolored they look like they've contracted
> >'cookie sheet leprosy' and I can't stand the sight of them.
> >At least not in the kitchen...I still use them in the smoker
> >as drip pans, which is fine. But I'd like to find a cookie
> >sheet that isn't reactive.
>
> Yes aluminum and acid don't mix very well. The acid always wins.
> I've seen aluminum sheet pans with that icky whitish-gray disease
> and it's not pretty. There is no such thing as parchment paper
> with a lip and so unless you're really good with origami it won't
> help much.
>
> The reason the pans get so bad (as I understand it) is that aluminum
> has an extremely high affinity for oxygen molecules and the surface
> of an aluminum sheet pan normally has a very thin aluminum oxide
> layer. Unlike oil or sugar or water or most substances that might
> come into contact with the pan, acid penetrates the aluminum oxide
> layer and reacts with the metallic aluminum underneath, resulting
> in the corrosion that leaves the pan looking icky and your food
> tasting metallic.

Aluminum fares far worse against alkaline solutions, not acid. This is
what aluminum fares so poorly in dishwashers since dishwasher detergent
is quite alkaline.

I have a small anodizing line and the aluminum cathodes do just fine
sitting in the sulfuric acid solution for months at a time. The etch
bath for the aluminum prior to anodizing is sodium hydroxide (Lye) which
dissolves aluminum quite nicely.

Pete C.

In article >,
tert in seattle > wrote:

> writes:

> we have a spammer folks!

Who? Jeneen? I don't think so! She's posted here for a long time.
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 3-21-2006 Hot Stuff!

"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Chef Dom wrote:

> I apologize if my efforts come off as span, my business and my
> background are very passionate to me. The information I post is the
> same I would give anyone asking these questions, in my business our
> mission is to educate people on the options available. I could have
> offered the Janeen the All-Clad sheets at half price or emailed her,
> but I didn't do that, instead I was giving my personal opion about a
> $10 baking pan. Again I apologize if this came off as spamlike but I
> do consider myself very knowledgable about this stuff and I have really
> done my homework.

Sorry, Chef! I wasn't trying to pick on you, I just thought it was odd
that I was called a spammer and you weren't. I appreciate your advice
on the cookie sheets, and will give Chicago Metallic a try. Thanks again!

Jeneen

No problem and I do agree with you on that, look forward to being able
to contribute on more topics in the future too.