On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:13:00 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>> Huh? I admired every word she wrote! I hope Siobbhan understood that
>> if you didn't.
>
>Sorry, but I found her last two paragraphs to be overly-judgemental...
>
>But that's just me. :-)

*shrug* No more so than the person I was responding to who was calling her
"friend" a fat, lazy good-for-nothing who is killing her family with the
taxpayer's money.

Yet *I* am overly judgemental. Go figure.

--
Siobhan Perricone
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family,
people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can
prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
- Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay

D.Currie wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>D.Currie wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>D.Currie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>But while these folks seem to disapprove of the time I spend in the
>>>>>kitchen (or the time they imagine I spend in the kitchen -- there are a
>>>>>lot of fast-cooking dishes that I make that are fresh, tasty, and
>>>>>healthy) when they come here for dinner, they eat like ravenous wolves.
>>>>>I've seen them each eat 3-4 large helpings. And every time we're invited
>>>>>over there, I'm asked to bring a dozen or so fresh buns. Or a loaf of
>>>>>bread. Homemade, of course.
>>>>
>>>>What I don't get is why it is anyone else's business how you spend your
>>>>time? If you want to spend your time cooking so be it. There's a lot
>>>>worse things you could be doing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>These people do it as habit. Their conversations are often sprinkled with
>>>"you should" and :"you shouldn't." I've come to a point where I can
>>>ignore most of it. If you take issue with their shoulds and shouldn'ts,
>>>they are very quick to say "we don't ever tell you what to do -- we
>>>support whatever we do -- we're on your side -- we don't mean it that
>>>way."
>>>
>>>It's not just food, it's a whole host of things that they have advice on.
>>>Like when I broke a bone in my foot, it was all about how I should get a
>>>bone density test and all sorts of other things I should look into. If
>>>the doctor thought I needed father tests, that would be one thing, but he
>>>seemed to think it was no big deal.
>>>
>>>If I have a headache, it's all about high blood pressure and medications
>>>and whatnot. If I'm working on the weekend, it's about what I should be
>>>doing for recreation.
>>>
>>>Maybe they just need something to worry and talk about.
>>>
>>>Every now and then I get an urge to tell them something outrageous to get
>>>them off whatever nitpicky thing they're on and give them something huge
>>>to waggle their tongues about. I'm considering maybe having conversations
>>>with an invisible friend during out next dinner. That ought to give them
>>>something to think about for a good long while.
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>Donna
>>
>>Donna, I'm sorry, I can't really help you with the other advice you are
>>getting. If this is habitual behaviour with them then my stance would be
>>to take it with a grain of salt and forget about it. A lot of us believe
>>in good food and good nutrition but we tend to focus on our families not
>>others. Those who want to impose their opinions on others and judge
>>others by their standards will always be a pain in the butt. I just tune
>>any of that kind of stuff out
>
>
> I do ignore it 99 percent of the time, but now and then I just get a little
> fed up with it. Most of the time I think it's funny. I mean, I'd rather cook
> the way I do and eat the way we do than cook like her and eat like that. And
> when it comes down to it, they seem to like my cooking a lot, it's just that
> they think it's not worth my effort. But then sometimes it's just too much.
> It's good to vent a little now and then.
>
>

Yep it's good to vent and here is a perfect spot That way you will
get a bunch of opinions and by the time you read through all them,
problem solved.

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:31:11 -0800, Ranee Mueller
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Siobhan Perricone > wrote:
>
>> An awful lot of the people I know who are on government assistance don't
>> have the time, kitchens, cooking implements, or skills to do what would be
>> needed to improve their diet. The cost of setting themselves up with the
>> necessary things to make a diet of beans and rice palatable is likely
>> higher than that they'd save over the course of several months, which, when
>> you're living check to check and having to make choices about which bills
>> to pay, isn't a very good incentive.
>
> They don't have a knife, a frying pan and a saucepan? Because that's
>all you _really_ need. If they have microwaves to reheat burritos, I
>bet they have the others.

*sigh* And people are, of course, born knowing how to use those things.

--
Siobhan Perricone
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family,
people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can
prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
- Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay

Bill wrote:
> Don't you think it is kind of silly to be praying in alt.atheism?

No.

> It's a
> little like jacking off in a whore house.

No.

> The residents are humored but don't really give a damn.

Without the LORD, their opinions are meaningless (Ecclesiastes).

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the 2006 global earthquake advisory,
cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread here
during the next on-line chat (03/23/06) from 6 to 7 pm EST:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/rgsp8

jmcquown wrote:

> Doug Kanter wrote:
>
>>"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>In article >,
>>>"Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>><lol> That's the best (simplest) reply I've seen yet. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>And I agree.......
>>>>>--
>>>>>Peace, Om.
>>>>
>>>>You want me so bad, you're clawing the walls of your house. I just
>>>>know it.
>>>
>>>Nah. "BOB" (Battery operated boyfriend) usually takes care of my
>>>needs. <g>
>>>
>>>Then again........
>>
>>BOB can't fix the doorbell or change a light switch to a dimmer, now
>>can he?
>
>
> Heh, what makes you think a woman can't do that on her own? I've replaced
> light fixtures, deadbolt locks, light switches... and all without a BOB
>
> Jill
>
>
But the important question is can you do it *without* turning off the
power? I kid you not, an inlaw showed DH how to change a light fixture
without turning off the power. DH started to show me but I let into
him. He now has a clear understanding that the power is to be off
before he tinkers with any wiring! Honest to goodness, men just need a
woman to do their thinking sometimes <snicker>

Old Mother Ashby wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> Henhouse wrote:
>>
>>> A friend of mine accused me of being a food snob the other day...
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone started the "food snob" thread again. :-(
>>
>> We might as well crosspost this to the cardio group and flood them
>> with our irritating rightousness for a while. Turn about is fair play.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bob
>
>
> Groan! I got up this morning to find 440 posts on rfc. Mos tof them were
> this confounded food snob thread. I've seen it all before, years ago,
> and it's too depressing. All these smug middle class characters just
> dying to feel superior to the fat ignorant plebs on welfare.
>
> Wonderful invention, food stamps, they enable one to target disapproval
> so accurately. I mean, I see a dumpy woman in skin tight jeans and
> moccasins with a trolley full of fizzy drinks and frozen pizzas and if
> I knew for sure she was on benefits I then could glow with righteous
> disapproval. I could be making a very big mistake if it turns out her
> husband earns more than I do. She, of course, has similar suspicions
> that I am on benefits because of the wheelchair, and would really like
> to disapprove of me shelling out taxpayers' money for EVO and King
> Island cheese and smoked salmon. Food stamps would put us both out of
> our misery; as it is, we both just have to mind our own bloody business.

cross posting snipped. AFAIK we don't have food stamps here. People on
social assistance receive a food allowance to be spent as they choose as
part of their monthly income. No one is actually twisting their arm to
spend that money on food though. They can supplement that food
allowance by getting food from charitable donations or food banks.

Amen to mind the business thing. I couldn't agree more.
>
> One thing that nobody seems to have turned their mind to is the fact
> that the supermarkets stock all this supposedly terrible junk food. If
> it's legal to manufacture it and legal to advertise it and legal to
> purchase it (even with food stamps), why blame people for buying it?
>
> Christine
>

Rhonda Anderson wrote:

> Reg > wrote in
> . com:
>
> .
>
>>And no, you wouldn't have to observe every store, the
>>same way polls don't need to include every human being
>>in a target group to produce accurate numbers. It's
>>called "sampling".
>
>
> Of course you'd be sampling, but you'd still need to have more than one
> store, and type of store. If the store you're sampling regularly sells crap
> quality fresh produce, and most people like to buy theirs in another store,
> your results would be biased.
>
> Anyway, I wasn't really aiming to work on the methodology, or worry about
> the stats. I was just trying to make the point that you can't always make
> an accurate judgement (or even a ballpark accuracy judgement) of someone's
> eating habits from looking at their shopping trolley.

Uh, yeah. Good point. Individual cases, by themselves, are
insignificant. Analysis at that level yields nothing
of value.

I've got it, by jove. How about using a statistical
method?

--
Reg

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> The Ranger > wrote:
>
>> I simplify it even further. Someone that eats to live is only
>> interested in food as fuel. They don't care what it is, generally,
>> because they're not interested in the subtleties (sight, smell, taste,
>> texture) that the other extreme finds so compelling. It's simply
>> something they need and will, generally, consume in record gulps. A
>> subset of this group is Quantity-over-Quality.
>
> Heh. The last person who told me that he only "eats to live" and that
> "food is fuel" is one of the pickiest eaters I've ever met.
>
> Miche
>

Same here. I think he looks at his narrow selection of foods as "I don't
need anything special," when what he really means is that he doesn't like
anything that's outside that narrow range of foods. Which is fine in his own
home where he's not going to run across onions, garlic, or mysterious
vegetables or spices.. But when he's in the outside world, his very plain,
very narrow selection of foods becomes picky and special. I also don't
"need" anything special, but if something special comes along I don't run
away from it.

Ranee Mueller wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>Amen! Another thing to consider is many in this situation don't have
>>transportation to get to U-picks or farmer's markets or a veggie stand
>>where produce is a lot cheaper. Even if they did, storage becomes an
>>issue because chest freezers and larger fridges are a luxury not
>>available. Have you ever seen the size of appliances in public housing?
>> You can't even fit normal sized cookie sheets or pans in the oven. I
>>doubt a turkey, one of the cheapest meats, would fit! Fridges are so
>>small, there is no way you could have much in the way of frozen food or
>>fresh food. Making the situation worse, they are often in housing where
>>they cannot grow produce themselves and even if they could might not be
>>able to afford the seeds or if working, the time. Inner city persons on
>>assistance often don't have access to actual grocery stores either.
>
>
> Who says you need to go to a farmer's market to get produce
> inexpensively. And around here, many of the farmer's markets do take
> WIC and Food Stamps. As I said before, we have been on food stamps, we
> still didn't buy junk with it, we still shopped sales, bought the lower
> priced options, and made do. I don't think anyone would say you can't
> buy any canned foods or frozen foods, but there is junk out there, and
> it is more expensive, less nutritious, and it shouldn't be allowed for
> purchase on the taxpayer's dime.

We don't have food stamps or WIC here. Those on social assistance
receive a food allowance along with their regular monthly benefits.
Whether of not they choose to spend that money on food is up to them and
by all means some choose not to. The problem comes when they choose not
to but that is a whole other issue. When we go to a grocery store, you
would have no idea who is on assistance or not although you may have
good suspicion. Here produce is really cheap. Farmer's markets and
U-picks are the way to get produce even cheaper. Now I'm just stating
how it happens here so where you are is obviously different. As far as
what they purchase, IMO that's up to them. Would I like to see healthy
choices, yes. Do I like it when I hear of a family that wasted their
food money on beer and the kids have nothing to eat, no. You can't take
a person's autonomy away, even the government without just cause can do
that. If they choose to take their government money and live in a
cardboard box in the street, you still can't interfer. You can only
interfer if they are in danger of harming themselves or someone else
irregardless of how you feel politically.
>
> Regards,
> Ranee
>
> Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.
>
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
>
> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
> http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

Ranee Mueller wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>Would you want someone telling you what you can and can't eat or buy? I
>>have dietary restrictions and I can tell you I feel resentful sometimes.
>> Why shouldn't they, as autonomous persons, be allowed to make their
>>own decisions whether or not they meet anyone else's standards?
>
>
> If they are spending someone else's money, then yes, they are
> responsible to account for how they are spending it. That is what food
> stamps is, spending the money of _people_ in the nation.

But they aren't spending someone else's money. They are spending what
the govenment give them to which they are entitled. If you don't agree,
change the government <shrug> And don't assume everyone here is
American with American values. I have no idea what food stamps are and
really don't have the inkling to go searching.

>
> Regards,
> Ranee
>
> Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.
>
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
>
> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
> http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

Ranee Mueller wrote:

> In article
> >,
> Old Mother Ashby > wrote:
>
>
>>One thing that nobody seems to have turned their mind to is the fact
>>that the supermarkets stock all this supposedly terrible junk food. If
>>it's legal to manufacture it and legal to advertise it and legal to
>>purchase it (even with food stamps), why blame people for buying it?
>
>
> Because they are spending _our_ money to get stuff that is garbage
> and expensive.
>
crossposting snipped

How is that any different than someone not on social assistance spending
money on junk food resulting in health problems? Those health problems
cost society a huge amount of money. If you really want to attack
someone, go after those...second thought better left unsaid.

> Regards,
> Ranee
>
> Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.
>
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
>
> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
> http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

Reg > wrote in
m:

> Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
>> Of course you'd be sampling, but you'd still need to have more than
>> one store, and type of store. If the store you're sampling regularly
>> sells crap quality fresh produce, and most people like to buy theirs
>> in another store, your results would be biased.
>>
>> Anyway, I wasn't really aiming to work on the methodology, or worry
>> about the stats. I was just trying to make the point that you can't
>> always make an accurate judgement (or even a ballpark accuracy
>> judgement) of someone's eating habits from looking at their shopping
>> trolley.
>
> Uh, yeah. Good point. Individual cases, by themselves, are
> insignificant. Analysis at that level yields nothing
> of value.
>
> I've got it, by jove. How about using a statistical
> method?
>

That statistical method would need more than just a camera in a
supermarket :-)

I shouldn't really post when I'm not feeling well - brain doesn't work at
100%. I was trying to answer more than one point by replying to one post,
which is a silly thing to do.

I understand you meant to undertake a more significant analysis than
looking at individual cases, however I still think you would need to do
more than mount a camera in "a" supermarket, as your post mentioned.I
think you'd need a more representative sample - that your sample would be
too biased if you used only one supermarket, regardless of how large your
dataset. Unless you used a town where there was only one place to buy
_all_ your groceries within a reasonable travel distance, so that most
people would buy everything in that one shop.

Where I shop there is a fruit and vegetable store just near the two
supermarkets as well as two butchers, a poultry store and a bread bakery.
There's also a newer store at the other end of the centre which has great
fresh produce, and plenty of people like me now buy most of their fresh
produce and some meat and deli items there, while still doing much of the
rest of their shopping at the major supermarket.

I think you'd need more than the camera anyway - surely you'd need to get
some additional data to do a meaningful analysis?

Anyway, I'm sure you understood what I meant, and I understood what you
meant, I'm just very tired for some reason and not wording things very
well. And why I'd want to talk about samples and stats on a weekend when
I have to do this fairly often at work, I don't know <g>. I hate
stats.......


--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:54:41 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
>> I can't even seem to keep the damned dining room table cleared off.
>> It's too convenient of a space......
>
>That's why I'm doing it. (Having company for dinner.) I cleared the
>table on Monday night for a tutoring session and it's still do-able for
>a meal with guests. Can't let all that flat surface go to waste.

Coudja come and do my desk, when you're done frittering your time away
feeding people, Barb?

Harry
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."
-- Duncan Hines

Rhonda Anderson wrote:

> That statistical method would need more than just a camera in a
> supermarket :-)
>

Many cameras in many places. This could also be correlated
with other data. If possible, use the buyers "customer id"
to aggregate data over time by individual shopper (they already
do this to an extent). You could also sharpen the data by conducting
follow up surveys on a voluntary basis. There are a lot of
possibilites here.

> I shouldn't really post when I'm not feeling well - brain doesn't work at
> 100%. I was trying to answer more than one point by replying to one post,
> which is a silly thing to do.
>
> I understand you meant to undertake a more significant analysis than
> looking at individual cases, however I still think you would need to do
> more than mount a camera in "a" supermarket, as your post mentioned.I
> think you'd need a more representative sample - that your sample would be
> too biased if you used only one supermarket, regardless of how large your
> dataset. Unless you used a town where there was only one place to buy
> _all_ your groceries within a reasonable travel distance, so that most
> people would buy everything in that one shop.

In the last post you said you weren't interested in discussing
methodology. You've changed your mind now, I take it?

--
Reg

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:04:52 -0500, "Bill" >
wrote:
- Refer: >
>Don't you think it is kind of silly to be praying in alt.atheism? It's a
>little like jacking off in a whore house.
:

I bet that Dr. Chunks does that too...

Henhouse > wrote in news:PkRSf.7311$j7.269283
@news.indigo.ie:

> A friend of mine accused me of being a food snob the other day.

I am called a liberal, or even an anarchist by those I work with. Wear it
with honor!

--

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:45 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>>
>> It's scary to see what some people buy. A while ago I was in the
>> checkout line at the grocery store behind a big fat lady and her big
>> fat daughter. They had a cart full of cases of pop (not diet) potato
>> chips chocolate bars, cookies and other snack foods and a small
>> amount of prepared food. It is hard not to be judgmental when you
>> see two fat slobs like that and the reason why they are both so
>> incredibly fat.
>
>It is hard, isn't it? I see it an wonder what it is in their lives that
>took them to that state. What misery and unhappiness and sadness and
>anger are they treating with high calories and not much nutrition? What
>rage within do they stuff down with food? Where did their hope go and
>how old were they when it did?

Remind me to give you a big hug next time I see you.

Peace,
Carol

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:25:04 -0700, "D.Currie"
> wrote:

>When I picture someone who "eats to live" I think of someone who had little
>choice and who eats whatever is available. These people, on the other hand,
>are picky eaters, IMO. They each have a long list of things they won't eat.

I know people who consider food to be nothing more than fuel to keep
their bodies going. For them, eating is a necessary evil.

This is not a concept that I am familiar with on a personal basis. <G>

Peace,
Carol

Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:31:42 -0800, Ranee Mueller
> > wrote:
>
>> And if those people were spending their own money, I'd agree with
>> you. If they were paying their folks' money, or a siblings' money or
>> their neighbors' money, same thing. That's between them and the
>> people who give them the money. When they are spending the public's
>> money, the public will have some thoughts on it.
>
> And do you all bitch and moan, and shriek when the rich person buys
> caviar with their social security check?

Hate to tell you this but my parents aren't buying caviar with their social
security checks and Dad's government pension. But if they were I'd sure as
hell ask them what the HELL they thought they were doing!

Or the oil companies take a
> tax break they get from our government and use it to build a new
> facility in another country and fire 500 workers in the US.
>
As someone who used be destitute and still didn't "qualify" for help, I
wasn't shoving cookies and chips and sodas into my cart. I bought FOOD.

> It's so easy to kick the poor.

It's so easy to blame the government. The folks in the late 1800's probably
did so, too. And the folks in the 1930's. But then again, during the
Depression, grandma wasn't buying cookies and coca-cola; she had her kids
(including my Dad) out picking greens to go with that rare chicken for
Sunday dinner. That was a *big* deal for dinner during the Depression. And
yes, true story, baked jacket potatoes held in their gloved hands to keep
them warm walking to school in the winter and eaten cold for lunch with a
little bit of salt. Somehow she managed to cook decent healthy meals
without cookies, sodas and stuff like that. If she baked cookies or made
candy it was a real treat, not an every day "I want I want I want!"
occurrence. It can be done. Some people just don't want to be bothered.

Jill

Miche wrote:

>In article >,
> The Ranger > wrote:
>
>
>
>>I simplify it even further. Someone that eats to live is only
>>interested in food as fuel. They don't care what it is, generally,
>>because they're not interested in the subtleties (sight, smell, taste,
>>texture) that the other extreme finds so compelling. It's simply
>>something they need and will, generally, consume in record gulps. A
>>subset of this group is Quantity-over-Quality.
>>
>>
>
>Heh. The last person who told me that he only "eats to live" and that
>"food is fuel" is one of the pickiest eaters I've ever met.
>
>Miche
>
>
>
Funny thing, that. The people who claim not to be interested in food,
who are almost proud of being unable to cook, are invariably the ones
with a list as long as your arm of things they won't eat.

They are also the ones who, when you visit them, give you instant
coffee, teabag tea, and cheap bought bikkies of you're lucky.This is
usually done with some sort of comment indicating that they are far too
busy to bother with baking or even visiting a decent cakeshop. If you
should offer them homemade cakes or biscuits at your place, they never
refuse. They usually eat the lot because, well, it is their duty to help
dispose of the evidence of all that sinful time wasting cooking.

Christine

In article >,
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
(snip)
> > That's why I'm doing it. (Having company for dinner.) I cleared the
> > table on Monday night for a tutoring session
>
> What do you tutor?

I was not the tutor, nor the tut-ee. "-) I hired one for my husband as
a Christmas gift.
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 3-17-2006, The $400K Condo in the
'Hood
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

Reg > wrote in
m:

>
> Many cameras in many places. This could also be correlated
> with other data. If possible, use the buyers "customer id"
> to aggregate data over time by individual shopper (they already
> do this to an extent). You could also sharpen the data by conducting
> follow up surveys on a voluntary basis. There are a lot of
> possibilites here.

No such thing as a "customer id" in any of the supermarkets I shop in. I
take it this relates to the loyalty cards that are mentioned in posts
from US rfc'ers? None of the supermarkets I know of have those.

However, even if you kept to just stores with those cards, I think you
would need some sort of questionnaire in addition to cameras - how many
people in the family, their eating habits etc. Someone buying a tub of
icecream, 2 packets of chips and 3 family bars of chocolate every week
may live on their own (eating all themselves) or be buying it for a
family of 6 and not actually eat any of it themselves. Many variables on
this of course. Also might need to know if the buyers eat out a lot, or
eat mainly home prepared meals. Unless you wanted to track them to
specialist stores as well, such as butchers, bakers, greengrocers,
farmers markets, then maybe you'd need to ask questions about other
shopping habits as well?

> In the last post you said you weren't interested in discussing
> methodology. You've changed your mind now, I take it?
>

I hadn't planned to discuss methodology - I had just wanted to make the
point of the silliness of judging someone by their grocery trolley
(which a number of people seemed to be doing). Then I saw your post and
also felt that "a camera in a supermarket" was too simplistic. I should
have ignored that and just replied to one of the other posts :-)

However, you got me curious <g>. Not good - I then get something stuck in
my head until I either work it out or something else takes over. I have a
mountain of housework to do and pizza dough to make (homemade pizza for
tea tonight) so I'd best leave the computer and get back to work!

--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 18 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> This is not a concept that I am familiar with on a personal basis. <G>
>

Yes, we all know you like to rub chocolate cake in your ears....you've told
us often enough ....(I've seen the pictures)....

--
-Alan

Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:31:11 -0800, Ranee Mueller
> > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Siobhan Perricone > wrote:
>>
>>> An awful lot of the people I know who are on government assistance
>>> don't have the time, kitchens, cooking implements, or skills to do
>>> what would be needed to improve their diet. The cost of setting
>>> themselves up with the necessary things to make a diet of beans and
>>> rice palatable is likely higher than that they'd save over the
>>> course of several months, which, when you're living check to check
>>> and having to make choices about which bills to pay, isn't a very
>>> good incentive.
>>
>> They don't have a knife, a frying pan and a saucepan? Because
>> that's
>> all you _really_ need. If they have microwaves to reheat burritos, I
>> bet they have the others.
>
> *sigh* And people are, of course, born knowing how to use those
> things.

Even a college kid knows how to heat up a fry pan over a hot plate with some
ground beef in it to make burgers. You're on the side of "right", but I'm
with Ranee on this one. If they can microwave frozen burritos it's not a
far step away from nuking some scrambled eggs for breakfast rather than
pouring out a bowl of sugar-laden cereal, which, BTW, costs about $6 a box
these days whereas eggs are about $.99 a dozen. You seem to be giving "the
poor" much less credit than they deserve when it comes to cooking skills.

Jill

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:55:11 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>I wish Damsel could chime in on this. She opened my eyes several
>years ago about some of the things that are bought by people on food
>stamps and why they buy them.
>
>In essence, you might not be seeing the whole story when you look at a
>person's shopping cart. Maybe that person barely has the energy to
>shop and little interest in food prep at that time. Forget about
>making the effort to cook, even if you are a good cook and love to
>cook. Sometimes you just barely have the energy and interest to get
>through the day, so you make the easiest choices you can. Sometimes
>the only energy you have is to open a can, or put something in the
>microwave.

You said it better than I could have, Chris. I take medications three
times a day, and they knock me out cold. Two naps a day, plus 10 or
more hours of sleep at night. When I *am* awake, I'm not terribly
functional.

As an aside, my primary physician, while reviewing my medication list,
once asked me how I was able to sit up in a chair. I also walk,
drive, and make noble attempts to clean the house during manic phases.

Last night, I made fried boneless-skinless chicken breasts, corn,
instant mashed potatoes, and gravy from a packet. That wouldn't be my
preference, but that's what we had on hand. By the time I finished
(and Crash made the potato-like substance), I was almost too tired to
eat.

We usually have just meat or just Rice-a-Roni or something, because
the energy just isn't there. Graham crackers are a great meal.

Anyone care for some Neurontin? A guaranteed good night's sleep.

Peace,
Carol

In article . net>,
Margaret Suran > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, having said what I said -- we're having company tonight for
> > dinner. But we're not entertaining. It's just Jo and Joe coming for
> > pot roast. With carrots. And kasha varnishkes. And broccoli, maybe.
> > And prize-winning pickles and imported olives from Zabar's. And Died
> > and Went-to-Heaven Chocolate Cake. And homemade bread. And wine. And
> > tortilla soup. And the good china. And the sterling.
> >
> > Cake just came out of the oven; bread dough is rising on the stove (over
> > the oven vent) and the pot roast just went into the oven. Pretty soon
> > I'll toast the kasha and get that underway and maybe set the table.
>
> What a great dinner. I bet there will be no left overs. There will
> be demands for seconds and thirds or there would be, if I were your
> lucky guest.
>
> Have fun and enjoy! M

We had a wonderful evening. Food wasn't bad, either. "-) I didn't
find a tablecloth, but used placemats that Rob's great-Aunt Jo wove for
me more than 30 years ago when she was in her 70s. She was an amazing
woman, that one was.

The pot roast was excellent and the carrots were sweet, if not
oven-browned. Jo and Joe had never had kasha and enjoyed it. The gravy
should have been thicker - i had too much water in my slurry, I think.
The bread: I made half into one loaf and the other half into a half
dozen dinner rolls, topped with a mixture of Penzeys Salad Sprinkles (I
think it's Penzeys) and some caraway and some coarse sea salt. Jo
thought they were from a bakery and the texture was excellent. The
tortilla soup was wonderful, though I could have put more heat in it --
I was thinking that Joe wasnt' fond of hot and spicy (I was wrong). The
chocolate cake was divine. I've posted the recipe more than once, I
think, over the years. The slaw was great -- I added onion, cuke, and
green pepper to bagged cole slaw mixture and mixed it with the Secret
Family Cole Slaw Dressing recipe: Jimmy's out of a jar from the
refrigerated section of the supermarket.

I washed, Rob dried. "-) I think I'll have a little sliver of cake
and go to bed. Yikes! It's midnight!
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 3-17-2006, The $400K Condo in the
'Hood
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

On Sat 18 Mar 2006 10:36:33p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it jmcquown?

> Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:31:42 -0800, Ranee Mueller
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> And if those people were spending their own money, I'd agree with
>>> you. If they were paying their folks' money, or a siblings' money or
>>> their neighbors' money, same thing. That's between them and the
>>> people who give them the money. When they are spending the public's
>>> money, the public will have some thoughts on it.
>>
>> And do you all bitch and moan, and shriek when the rich person buys
>> caviar with their social security check?
>
> Hate to tell you this but my parents aren't buying caviar with their
> social security checks and Dad's government pension. But if they were
> I'd sure as hell ask them what the HELL they thought they were doing!

And even if they did, so what? Collecting social security and having a
pension is not the same as being on the public dole. They earned that
money. OTOH, there are a lot of people on public assistance (at least in
AZ) that have earned next to nothing their entire life.

> Or the oil companies take a
>> tax break they get from our government and use it to build a new
>> facility in another country and fire 500 workers in the US.

I can attest to that. I lost a very good job because the company I worked
for moved an entire division to India for that very reason.

> As someone who used be destitute and still didn't "qualify" for help, I
> wasn't shoving cookies and chips and sodas into my cart. I bought FOOD.
>
>> It's so easy to kick the poor.
>
> It's so easy to blame the government. The folks in the late 1800's
> probably did so, too. And the folks in the 1930's. But then again,
> during the Depression, grandma wasn't buying cookies and coca-cola; she
> had her kids (including my Dad) out picking greens to go with that rare
> chicken for Sunday dinner. That was a *big* deal for dinner during the
> Depression. And yes, true story, baked jacket potatoes held in their
> gloved hands to keep them warm walking to school in the winter and eaten
> cold for lunch with a little bit of salt. Somehow she managed to cook
> decent healthy meals without cookies, sodas and stuff like that. If she
> baked cookies or made candy it was a real treat, not an every day "I
> want I want I want!" occurrence. It can be done. Some people just
> don't want to be bothered.

I have to agree with you, Jill. I remember my dad telling of taking a
roasted sweet potato (they grew their own) along with some cold biscuits to
school for lunch. It wasn't an easy life back then, and there was little
if any public assistance available. At least his family had none.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:04:40 -0700, "D.Currie"
> wrote:

>Every now and then I get an urge to tell them something outrageous to get
>them off whatever nitpicky thing they're on and give them something huge to
>waggle their tongues about. I'm considering maybe having conversations with
>an invisible friend during out next dinner. That ought to give them
>something to think about for a good long while.

Be sure to become angry at your invisible friend/enemy. People who do
that scare me half to death. I've become a little less afraid since I
started shacking up with a schizophrenic 10 years ago. He's taught me
a lot. But I'm still nervous about loud arguments, no matter who is
involved in them.

Carol

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:32:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> wrote:

>You want me so bad, you're clawing the walls of your house. I just know it.

Put your clothes back on, Doug. She's probably clawing the exterior
walls of her house, trying to reach safety. <EG>

Peace,
Carol

Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
>> Sweet Jesus! Siobbhan!! May I sit by you? It would be a pleasure
>> to sit at your feet, Lady. Well said!! I salute you.
>
> *chuckle* Thanks. I've been poor when I was a kid, and I've been in a
> position where one illness would have made me homeless, but I've
> managed. I was *taught* how to shop and cook frugally. I'm from a
> small midwest family with a large extended family, so I had a lot of
> resources to draw on.
>
> But I've had friends who have not been nearly so fortunate, and it's
> painful to see them struggling so hard.
>
> Another thing I forgot to mention about people living in poverty is
> vermin. Most of the low income housing I've seen has had vermin
> problems, and that makes food storage a serious challenge. Not to
> mention the other things another poster mentioned about small to
> non-existent kitchens, tiny appliances, and often non-fuctional
> appliances.
>
No one said kili's friend lives in government assisted housing. But since
you brought it up, when I was married my (ex-) husband's aunt lived in a
government assisted housing project with her 3 daughters. Her stove was
fully functional and it was the same size as any other apartment stove/oven.
So was the refrigerator/freezer unit. And the place was not swarming in
vermin. It *did* have tiled floors throughout but hey, she put down a few
throw rugs.

> It just really gets my goat how impossible our society makes it for
> the poor to actually get out from under the yoke of public
> assistance.

Heh, you'd think so, right? When I was on unemployment benefits (got paid a
pittance for a whopping 6 months in 2004, even though I'd been working to
put it "into" the system for 25 years I'd be at the unemployment office
looking at job offerings and talking to counselors about possible job
opportunities. These guys wearing tons of "bling" (pardon me if I offend
anyone) would step outside to conduct their all important business on their
cell phones and miss their names being called to discuss possible jobs for
them. Obviously it was more important for them to talk with their buds than
it was to wait in the room for their name to be called about potential jobs.

The receptionist at this office told me I'd be amazed how many women on
assistance showed up wearing house slippers and hair rollers. The
receptionist said to me, "I ask them, what if I wanted to send you out right
now for an interview? You can't go all looking like that!"

A lot of the people visiting the unemployment office weren't about trying to
make things better for themselves; they were about getting a check and
getting on with whatever "business" they thought they had. It wasn't about
any nutritional programs that might be available (they are) or about family
day care assistance (they are) or anything else. It was all about "give me
my check" and get me out of here. You cannot blame the government for those
attitudes. The attitudes exist whether you like it or not.

If you couldn't read the listings, that's what the counselors were there
for. They also have computer terminals and if you don't know how to use
them someone would help you.

The help is there for those who don't need to rush out and call someone on
their cell phone. The government does what it can; people simply need to be
willing to commit to a few things, like asking for assistance. To say "I'm
poor therefore I'm stupid" is bullshit. The government is there but you
have to put forth some effort. Hell, even most local food banks have meals
on wheels if you're elderly and/or disabled. But you have to be a willing
participant. And sadly, in this part of the country, most people would
rather say "just give me my check" and do nothing. Sorry, I don't have
statistics to back it up, just general observations done in person.

Jill

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:52:56 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>I need to get off my ass and wash the dishes, then get out those pork
>hocks I cooked yesterday!

Know how I'm getting caught up (slowly) on my dishes? Every time I
use a dish, pan, or utensil, I wash it and put it where it belongs
right away. Every time I pass through the kitchen, I wash at least
two dirty dishes. Then I immediately dry them and put them away. The
piles are getting shorter and shorter, and I'm not getting a disabling
back ache from doing them all at once. YAY!

Peace,
Carol

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:54:41 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
>> I can't even seem to keep the damned dining room table cleared off.
>> It's too convenient of a space......
>
>That's why I'm doing it. (Having company for dinner.) I cleared the
>table on Monday night for a tutoring session and it's still do-able for
>a meal with guests. Can't let all that flat surface go to waste.

Flat surface. Can you please describe this phenomenon to me?

Peace,
Carol

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:12:09 -0500, ~patches~
> wrote:

>While I don't use commercially prepared thing but I will
>use mustards because I'm not really good at making my own yet.

Here's Lady Pamela's famous Robust German Mustard. It's heavenly!


RECIPE INGREDIENTS

1/4 cup brown mustard seeds, ground

5 tablespoons mustard powder

1/3 cup water or beer

3/4 cup cider vinegar

2 tablespoons cold water

2 large onions, sliced

1 tablespoon honey

1 teaspoon molasses

2 cloves garlic, halved

1/4 teaspoon each , cinnamon, allspice, cloves

RECIPE METHOD

In a bowl, combine the mustard seeds and mustard powder. Heat the 1/3
cup of water and add with 1/4 cup of the vinegar. Let stand for 3
hours so the bitterness of the mustard disappears.

Meanwhile, put all the remaining ingredients in a saucepan and boil
for 1 minute. Remove the pan from the heat, cover, and let stand for 1
hour.

Put everything into a food processor. . Process until it is the
desired coarseness.

Put in the top of a double boiler and cook over simmering water for 25
minutes, or until thickened. Remove from heat.

Ladle into a sterile jar. Cap tightly and label. The mustard will
thicken as it cools. Store in the refrigerator for about 1 month.

Carol wrote:

> Know how I'm getting caught up (slowly) on my dishes? Every time I
> use a dish, pan, or utensil, I wash it and put it where it belongs
> right away. Every time I pass through the kitchen, I wash at least
> two dirty dishes. Then I immediately dry them and put them away. The
> piles are getting shorter and shorter, and I'm not getting a disabling
> back ache from doing them all at once. YAY!

Another technique that might work is this: Every time you take a dish, pan,
or utensil out of the cupboard or drawer, wash TWO such items and put them
away.

I've also started filling the sink with hot, soapy water before I begin
cooking. Makes it easier to clean up as I cook.

Bob

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:03:18 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress
> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:55:11 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:
>
>>I wish Damsel could chime in on this. She opened my eyes several
>>years ago about some of the things that are bought by people on food
>>stamps and why they buy them.


>You said it better than I could have, Chris. I take medications three
>times a day, and they knock me out cold. Two naps a day, plus 10 or
>more hours of sleep at night. When I *am* awake, I'm not terribly
>functional.


I really didn't say it very well. And I am not sure it registers with
a lot of folks who haven't "been there".

But it sure made me look at people differently when you talked about
appearances being deceiving.

Thanks, once again.

Christine

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:41:31 GMT, Mr Libido Incognito >
wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 18 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> This is not a concept that I am familiar with on a personal basis. <G>
>
>Yes, we all know you like to rub chocolate cake in your ears....you've told
>us often enough ....(I've seen the pictures)....

Yup, and I use the cake to lure our dog into cleaning my ear, thus
saving me a Q-Tip.

Frugally yours,
Carol

On 19 Mar 2006 00:33:06 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>Carol wrote:
>
>> Know how I'm getting caught up (slowly) on my dishes? Every time I
>> use a dish, pan, or utensil, I wash it and put it where it belongs
>> right away. Every time I pass through the kitchen, I wash at least
>> two dirty dishes. Then I immediately dry them and put them away. The
>> piles are getting shorter and shorter, and I'm not getting a disabling
>> back ache from doing them all at once. YAY!
>
>Another technique that might work is this: Every time you take a dish, pan,
>or utensil out of the cupboard or drawer, wash TWO such items and put them
>away.

Good plan, Bob-O!

>I've also started filling the sink with hot, soapy water before I begin
>cooking. Makes it easier to clean up as I cook.

I learned the hot water soak from my ex-mother in law. Pure hot
water. By the time it's cooled enough to not burn you, the dishes
practically wash themselves.

Peace,
Carol

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:39:52 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:03:18 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:55:11 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:
>>
>>>I wish Damsel could chime in on this. She opened my eyes several
>>>years ago about some of the things that are bought by people on food
>>>stamps and why they buy them.
>
>>You said it better than I could have, Chris. I take medications three
>>times a day, and they knock me out cold. Two naps a day, plus 10 or
>>more hours of sleep at night. When I *am* awake, I'm not terribly
>>functional.
>
>I really didn't say it very well. And I am not sure it registers with
>a lot of folks who haven't "been there".

Pshaw. You sure did express it well. I agree that it's difficult for
people who don't deal with medical problems, either/or physical or
mental, to understand.

>But it sure made me look at people differently when you talked about
>appearances being deceiving.
>
>Thanks, once again.

I'm glad that I've touched at least one person. Hopefully, others
will understand as well, because of this discussion. Thanks for
bringing it up, Chris.

Peace,
Carol

Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:31:42 -0800, Ranee Mueller
> > wrote:
>
> > And if those people were spending their own money, I'd agree with
> >you. If they were paying their folks' money, or a siblings' money or
> >their neighbors' money, same thing. That's between them and the people
> >who give them the money. When they are spending the public's money, the
> >public will have some thoughts on it.
>
> And do you all bitch and moan, and shriek when the rich person buys caviar
> with their social security check? Or the oil companies take a tax break
> they get from our government and use it to build a new facility in another
> country and fire 500 workers in the US.
>
> It's so easy to kick the poor.

We all ought to line up and tell Ranee how to spend her child tax
credit. Afterall, it's "our" money she's spending...

-L.

Rhonda Anderson wrote:

> However, you got me curious <g>. Not good - I then get something stuck in
> my head until I either work it out or something else takes over. I have a
> mountain of housework to do and pizza dough to make (homemade pizza for
> tea tonight) so I'd best leave the computer and get back to work!
>

Good luck with the dough and the pizza. You're bringing back memories
of the stromboli I made the other night, or as I like to call
it, "Pizza Involtini".

--
Reg