Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.

Ken



--
Untie the two knots to email me

"When the president does it, that means it is not illegal."

Richard M. Nixon, on a May 19, 1977 David Frost TV
interview with regard to wiretapping and other surveilance
of the public (the Huston Plan). Five days later, after
opposition from J. Edgar Hoover, the plan was withdrawn,
but the president's approval was later to be listed in
the Articles of Impeachment as an alleged abuse of
presidential power.

"Ken Knecht" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>
> Ken

I Have one! But I don't know if you like it. It came out with a crispy
crust.
I don't know if the recipe is good for your bread machine. I have an italian
bread machine and I use dry yeast.
Post also your ingredients, so I can see if mine is similar or different.
Let me know

--
Cheers
Pandora

How about making a sourdough starter, and using that to make the bread?

"Ken Knecht" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> --
> Untie the two knots to email me
>
> "When the president does it, that means it is not illegal."
>
> Richard M. Nixon, on a May 19, 1977 David Frost TV
> interview with regard to wiretapping and other surveilance
> of the public (the Huston Plan). Five days later, after
> opposition from J. Edgar Hoover, the plan was withdrawn,
> but the president's approval was later to be listed in
> the Articles of Impeachment as an alleged abuse of
> presidential power.

Pandora wrote:
> "Ken Knecht" writes:
>
> > Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>
> I don't know if the recipe is good for your bread machine.
> I have an italian bread machine.

Oh, geeze! Dumb Dora is an understatement.

Yeah, the venerable "WOP-O-MATIC"... only does garlic bread! <G>


Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .


Sheldon

Ken Knecht wrote:
> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>
When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
worthwhile. -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ken Knecht wrote:
>> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>>
> When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
> whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
> more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
> of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> worthwhile. -aem
>

Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "aem" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Ken Knecht wrote:
> >> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> >> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
> >>
> > When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
> > whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
> > more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
> > of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> > and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> > worthwhile. -aem
> >
>
> Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?

Not exactly. It's basically a dense German rye bread with additional
flavorings, including molasses. Really good with sauerbraten and pot
roasts and for sandwiches with full flavored meats. Also -- and I
wonder how many other breads pass this test? -- really good all by
itself with nothing more than butter. -aem

aem wrote:
> Doug Kanter wrote:
> > "aem" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >
> > > Ken Knecht wrote:
> > >> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> > >> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
> > >>
> > > When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
> > > whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
> > > more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
> > > of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> > > and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> > > worthwhile. -aem
> > >
> >
> > Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?
>
> Not exactly. It's basically a dense German rye bread with additional
> flavorings, including molasses. Really good with sauerbraten and pot
> roasts and for sandwiches with full flavored meats. Also -- and I
> wonder how many other breads pass this test? -- really good all by
> itself with nothing more than butter.

Not quite. And it's not molasses. The dark color is from burnt sugar,
readily available at ethnic markets... the same colorant that makes
your favorite cola drink dark, otherwise it would be crystal clear.

http://www.foodadditivesworld.com/caramel.html

Sheldon

Ken Knecht wrote:
> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>
> Ken
>
>
>

this one
http://www.breadworld.com/recipes/re...tail.asp?id=51
and this one
http://www.breadworld.com/recipes/re...ail.asp?id=787

are a couple of my favorites, I make them a lot.


--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> "aem" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Ken Knecht wrote:
> >> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> >> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
> >>
> > When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
> > whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
> > more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
> > of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> > and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> > worthwhile. -aem
> >
>
> Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?

LOL no. It's made from coarse rye grains, rye flour, sourdough and then
baked overnight.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>
>> "aem" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > Ken Knecht wrote:
>> >> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>> >> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>> >>
>> > When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
>> > whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
>> > more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
>> > of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
>> > and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
>> > worthwhile. -aem
>> >
>>
>> Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?
>
> LOL no. It's made from coarse rye grains, rye flour, sourdough and then
> baked overnight.

I haven't had it since I was a kid. The stuff in the stores now has no soul.

"Pandora" > wrote in
:

>
> "Ken Knecht" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>>
>> Ken
>
> I Have one! But I don't know if you like it. It came out with a crispy
> crust.
> I don't know if the recipe is good for your bread machine. I have an
> italian bread machine and I use dry yeast.
> Post also your ingredients, so I can see if mine is similar or
> different. Let me know
>

I've tried several. Here's a typical small loaf from Donna German's _The
Bread Machine Cookbook_.

water 2/3 C
Margarine/butter 1 Tbs
sugar 1 Tbs
salt 1/2 tsp
whole wheat flour 1 C
bread flour 1 C
nonfat dry milk 2 1/2 Tbs
yeast 1 tsp

I always use dry yeast.

--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in news:7%CRf.17473
:

> How about making a sourdough starter, and using that to make the bread?
>

I've never tried sourdough bread. Something to look into.


--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

"aem" > wrote in news:1142364297.195607.42710
@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> worthwhile.

I'm always trying to get more fiber in my diet. I thought maybe if I
could find a whole wheat bread recipe I really liked it would help.

I do like rye and make it sometimes.


--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

"Ken Knecht" > wrote in message
...
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in news:7%CRf.17473
> :
>
>> How about making a sourdough starter, and using that to make the bread?
>>
>
> I've never tried sourdough bread. Something to look into.


Here's a good recipe for your first try:

Source: In Nonna's Kitchen, by Carol Field



Pane Casareccio (Homemade Country Bread)



Flour, water, salt and yeast: the breads of the Italian countryside combine
four of the most basic ingredients on earth to create delicious country
loaves with thick chewy crusts. Many years ago I learned to bake Italian
country bread with Nella Galletti at her home in the Umbrian countryside and
later discovered that Annita di Fonzo Zannella makes her bread the same way.
Nella made traditional saltless bread for which she kept her ingredients in
a large madia, a deep wooden chest that held both flour and the natural
yeast that came from keeping some dough of that week's baking and setting it
aside to be used as leavening for the next week's bread. She mixed the
starter with the flour and then began pouring scoops of water directly into
the mixture, beating and mixing and kneading for at least 40 minutes. The
amounts were immense! She kneaded so vigorously that the dough became like
a huge blanket that she kept turning and pummeling and kneading some more
until it was elastic and silky and very resilient. Her muscles had a
definite workout. After she allowed the dough its initial rise, she shaped
it into rounds, let them rise again on floured canvas she pleated between
loaves so they wouldn't fuse, and set them on a board. When they were
ready-doubled and full of air bubbles-she called a neighbor, who hoisted the
board onto his shoulder and took its many loaves to the hot wood-burning
oven. Nella swabbed the oven with rainwater that she had saved to create
steam, and then she slid in the rounds. An hour later, out came the crunchy
crusted bread that would feed Nella, her family, and neighbors for a week.



When I explained to Nella that Americans don't have such natural starter
available to them, she suggested making a biga, a starter with almost no
yeast at all, and letting it rise for two days. You don't have to do
anything for the two days in which it sits at room temperature, but you must
be sure to start your bread baking with enough time to allow the biga to
ferment and develop its rich flavor.



Biga (bread starter)

¼ teaspoon active dry yeast or 1/10 small cake fresh yeast

¼ cup warm water

¾ cup plus 2 tablespoons water, room temperature

2-1/2 cups (about 11 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour



Dough

1-1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast, or ½ cake (1/3 ounce) fresh yeast

¼ cup warm water, 105 to 115 degrees for dry yeast, 95 to 105 degrees for
fresh

2-1/3 cups water

1 cup (about 8 ounces) biga, measured at room temperature

About 5-1/2 to 5-3/4 cups (approx 1-3/4 pounds) unbleached all purpose flour

1 tablespoon sea salt or kosher salt

Cornmeal (for baking stones or pans)



To make the biga: Stir the yeast into the warm water and let stand until
creamy, about 10 minutes. Stir in the remaining water and then the flour, 1
cup at a time. If you are making the biga by hand, mix with a wooden spoon
for about 4 minutes. If you are using a heavy-duty electric mixer, mix with
the paddle at the lowest speed for about 2 minutes.



Rising: Place the sticky biga in a large lightly oiled bowl, cover with
plastic wrap, and let rise at cool room temperature for 24 to 48 hours. The
starter will triple in volume, then fall back upon itself. It ill still be
wet and sticky when you use it, so moisten your hands when you scoop some
out to measure it. Cover and refrigerate after 48 hours. You may keep the
biga refrigerated for up to 5 days.



To make the dough by hand: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a large
mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add the room
temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through your fingers to
break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden spoon until the water
is chalky white and the starter is well shredded. Begin stirring the flour
mixed with the salt, 2 cups at a time, into the yeast mixture. Beat well
with a wooden spoon until the dough comes together into a shaggy moist mass.
Flour your work surface and your dough scraper and keep a mound of flour
nearby for your hands. Turn the dough out onto the floured surface and,
with the help of the dough scraper and as little flour as possible, turn and
knead the dough until it gradually loses its stickiness, although it will
remain wet.



By heavy-duty electric mixer: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a large
mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add the room
temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through your fingers to
break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden spoon until the water
is chalky white and the starter is well shredded. Add the flour and salt
and with the paddle attachment mix until the dough comes together. You may
need to add up to 4 tablespoons more flour, but the dough will never come
away from the sides and bottom of the bowl. Change to the dough hook and
knead for 4 to 5 minutes at medium speed. You may finish kneading the
sticky wet dough by hand on a well-floured surface, sprinkling the top with
up to 4 tablespoons more flour.



First Rise: Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl. If you have a
straight-sided translucent plastic container, please use it so that you can
mark exactly where the dough starts and measure its progress until it has
tripled. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and let rise until tripled and
full of air bubbles, about 3 hours.



Shaping and second rise: Turn the sticky dough out onto a well-floured work
surface. Flour a dough scraper and have a mound of flour nearby for your
hands. Pour the dough out of the bowl but do not punch it down. Lightly
flour the top and cut into 3 equal pieces. You can moisten your hands in
water if the dough seems very sticky; wet hands do not stick to wet dough.
Flatten each piece and roll it up lengthwise, using your thumbs as a guide
for how tight the rolls should be. Turn the dough 90 degrees, gently pat it
flat, and roll it up again, still using your thumbs as a guide. Shape each
piece into a ball by rolling the dough between your cupped hands, using the
surface of your work table to generate tension and create a taut skin on the
surface of the dough. Place the loaves on floured parchment paper or waxed
paper, set them on baking sheets or pizza peels, cover with a heavy cloth,
and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour.



At least 30 minutes before you plan to bake, heat the oven(s) to 450 degrees
with baking stones inside.



Baking: Just before baking, sprinkle the stones with cornmeal. Gently
invert the loaves onto the stones-you may leave whatever parchment paper has
stuck to the wet dough for 15 minutes or so and remove it once the dough has
set. You may prefer to slide the loaves onto the baking stones without
turning them over; you may also leave them on the baking sheets and set them
directly on the stones. The break will look deflated when you initially put
it in, but will puff up like a pillow in no time. Bake until golden brown
and crusty, about 35 minutes, or until a tap on the bottom produces a hollow
sound that indicates the loaf is baked. Cool on racks.



Variation: Use 1 scant cup (5 ounces) whole wheat flour, preferably
stone-ground and 4-3/4 cups (1-1/3 pounds) unbleached all-purpose flour.

The Bubbo > wrote in news:PM00040EFDE6377CE9
@Heather-Wards-Computer.Belkin:

> Ken Knecht wrote:
>> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>
> this one
> http://www.breadworld.com/recipes/re...tail.asp?id=51
> and this one
> http://www.breadworld.com/recipes/re...ail.asp?id=787
>
> are a couple of my favorites, I make them a lot.
>
>

Thank you. I'll try them.

--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in
:

> "Ken Knecht" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in news:7%CRf.17473
>> :
>>
>>> How about making a sourdough starter, and using that to make the
>>> bread?
>>>
>>
>> I've never tried sourdough bread. Something to look into.
>
>
> Here's a good recipe for your first try:
>
> Source: In Nonna's Kitchen, by Carol Field
>
>
>
> Pane Casareccio (Homemade Country Bread)
>
>
>
> Flour, water, salt and yeast: the breads of the Italian countryside
> combine four of the most basic ingredients on earth to create
> delicious country loaves with thick chewy crusts. Many years ago I
> learned to bake Italian country bread with Nella Galletti at her home
> in the Umbrian countryside and later discovered that Annita di Fonzo
> Zannella makes her bread the same way. Nella made traditional saltless
> bread for which she kept her ingredients in a large madia, a deep
> wooden chest that held both flour and the natural yeast that came from
> keeping some dough of that week's baking and setting it aside to be
> used as leavening for the next week's bread. She mixed the starter
> with the flour and then began pouring scoops of water directly into
> the mixture, beating and mixing and kneading for at least 40 minutes.
> The amounts were immense! She kneaded so vigorously that the dough
> became like a huge blanket that she kept turning and pummeling and
> kneading some more until it was elastic and silky and very resilient.
> Her muscles had a definite workout. After she allowed the dough its
> initial rise, she shaped it into rounds, let them rise again on
> floured canvas she pleated between loaves so they wouldn't fuse, and
> set them on a board. When they were ready-doubled and full of air
> bubbles-she called a neighbor, who hoisted the board onto his shoulder
> and took its many loaves to the hot wood-burning oven. Nella swabbed
> the oven with rainwater that she had saved to create steam, and then
> she slid in the rounds. An hour later, out came the crunchy crusted
> bread that would feed Nella, her family, and neighbors for a week.
>
>
>
> When I explained to Nella that Americans don't have such natural
> starter available to them, she suggested making a biga, a starter with
> almost no yeast at all, and letting it rise for two days. You don't
> have to do anything for the two days in which it sits at room
> temperature, but you must be sure to start your bread baking with
> enough time to allow the biga to ferment and develop its rich flavor.
>
>
>
> Biga (bread starter)
>
> ¼ teaspoon active dry yeast or 1/10 small cake fresh yeast
>
> ¼ cup warm water
>
> ¾ cup plus 2 tablespoons water, room temperature
>
> 2-1/2 cups (about 11 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour
>
>
>
> Dough
>
> 1-1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast, or ½ cake (1/3 ounce) fresh yeast
>
> ¼ cup warm water, 105 to 115 degrees for dry yeast, 95 to 105 degrees
> for fresh
>
> 2-1/3 cups water
>
> 1 cup (about 8 ounces) biga, measured at room temperature
>
> About 5-1/2 to 5-3/4 cups (approx 1-3/4 pounds) unbleached all purpose
> flour
>
> 1 tablespoon sea salt or kosher salt
>
> Cornmeal (for baking stones or pans)
>
>
>
> To make the biga: Stir the yeast into the warm water and let stand
> until creamy, about 10 minutes. Stir in the remaining water and then
> the flour, 1 cup at a time. If you are making the biga by hand, mix
> with a wooden spoon for about 4 minutes. If you are using a
> heavy-duty electric mixer, mix with the paddle at the lowest speed for
> about 2 minutes.
>
>
>
> Rising: Place the sticky biga in a large lightly oiled bowl, cover
> with plastic wrap, and let rise at cool room temperature for 24 to 48
> hours. The starter will triple in volume, then fall back upon itself.
> It ill still be wet and sticky when you use it, so moisten your hands
> when you scoop some out to measure it. Cover and refrigerate after 48
> hours. You may keep the biga refrigerated for up to 5 days.
>
>
>
> To make the dough by hand: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a
> large mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add
> the room temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through
> your fingers to break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden
> spoon until the water is chalky white and the starter is well
> shredded. Begin stirring the flour mixed with the salt, 2 cups at a
> time, into the yeast mixture. Beat well with a wooden spoon until the
> dough comes together into a shaggy moist mass. Flour your work surface
> and your dough scraper and keep a mound of flour nearby for your
> hands. Turn the dough out onto the floured surface and, with the help
> of the dough scraper and as little flour as possible, turn and knead
> the dough until it gradually loses its stickiness, although it will
> remain wet.
>
>
>
> By heavy-duty electric mixer: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a
> large mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add
> the room temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through
> your fingers to break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden
> spoon until the water is chalky white and the starter is well
> shredded. Add the flour and salt and with the paddle attachment mix
> until the dough comes together. You may need to add up to 4
> tablespoons more flour, but the dough will never come away from the
> sides and bottom of the bowl. Change to the dough hook and knead for
> 4 to 5 minutes at medium speed. You may finish kneading the sticky
> wet dough by hand on a well-floured surface, sprinkling the top with
> up to 4 tablespoons more flour.
>
>
>
> First Rise: Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl. If you have a
> straight-sided translucent plastic container, please use it so that
> you can mark exactly where the dough starts and measure its progress
> until it has tripled. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and let rise
> until tripled and full of air bubbles, about 3 hours.
>
>
>
> Shaping and second rise: Turn the sticky dough out onto a
> well-floured work surface. Flour a dough scraper and have a mound of
> flour nearby for your hands. Pour the dough out of the bowl but do
> not punch it down. Lightly flour the top and cut into 3 equal pieces.
> You can moisten your hands in water if the dough seems very sticky;
> wet hands do not stick to wet dough. Flatten each piece and roll it up
> lengthwise, using your thumbs as a guide for how tight the rolls
> should be. Turn the dough 90 degrees, gently pat it flat, and roll it
> up again, still using your thumbs as a guide. Shape each piece into a
> ball by rolling the dough between your cupped hands, using the surface
> of your work table to generate tension and create a taut skin on the
> surface of the dough. Place the loaves on floured parchment paper or
> waxed paper, set them on baking sheets or pizza peels, cover with a
> heavy cloth, and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour.
>
>
>
> At least 30 minutes before you plan to bake, heat the oven(s) to 450
> degrees with baking stones inside.
>
>
>
> Baking: Just before baking, sprinkle the stones with cornmeal.
> Gently invert the loaves onto the stones-you may leave whatever
> parchment paper has stuck to the wet dough for 15 minutes or so and
> remove it once the dough has set. You may prefer to slide the loaves
> onto the baking stones without turning them over; you may also leave
> them on the baking sheets and set them directly on the stones. The
> break will look deflated when you initially put it in, but will puff
> up like a pillow in no time. Bake until golden brown and crusty,
> about 35 minutes, or until a tap on the bottom produces a hollow sound
> that indicates the loaf is baked. Cool on racks.
>
>
>
> Variation: Use 1 scant cup (5 ounces) whole wheat flour, preferably
> stone-ground and 4-3/4 cups (1-1/3 pounds) unbleached all-purpose
> flour.
>
>
>

Thank you.



--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

"Ken Knecht" > wrote in message
...
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Ken Knecht" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in news:7%CRf.17473
>>> :
>>>
>>>> How about making a sourdough starter, and using that to make the
>>>> bread?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never tried sourdough bread. Something to look into.
>>
>>
>> Here's a good recipe for your first try:
>>
>> Source: In Nonna's Kitchen, by Carol Field
>>
>>
>>
>> Pane Casareccio (Homemade Country Bread)
>>
>>
>>
>> Flour, water, salt and yeast: the breads of the Italian countryside
>> combine four of the most basic ingredients on earth to create
>> delicious country loaves with thick chewy crusts. Many years ago I
>> learned to bake Italian country bread with Nella Galletti at her home
>> in the Umbrian countryside and later discovered that Annita di Fonzo
>> Zannella makes her bread the same way. Nella made traditional saltless
>> bread for which she kept her ingredients in a large madia, a deep
>> wooden chest that held both flour and the natural yeast that came from
>> keeping some dough of that week's baking and setting it aside to be
>> used as leavening for the next week's bread. She mixed the starter
>> with the flour and then began pouring scoops of water directly into
>> the mixture, beating and mixing and kneading for at least 40 minutes.
>> The amounts were immense! She kneaded so vigorously that the dough
>> became like a huge blanket that she kept turning and pummeling and
>> kneading some more until it was elastic and silky and very resilient.
>> Her muscles had a definite workout. After she allowed the dough its
>> initial rise, she shaped it into rounds, let them rise again on
>> floured canvas she pleated between loaves so they wouldn't fuse, and
>> set them on a board. When they were ready-doubled and full of air
>> bubbles-she called a neighbor, who hoisted the board onto his shoulder
>> and took its many loaves to the hot wood-burning oven. Nella swabbed
>> the oven with rainwater that she had saved to create steam, and then
>> she slid in the rounds. An hour later, out came the crunchy crusted
>> bread that would feed Nella, her family, and neighbors for a week.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I explained to Nella that Americans don't have such natural
>> starter available to them, she suggested making a biga, a starter with
>> almost no yeast at all, and letting it rise for two days. You don't
>> have to do anything for the two days in which it sits at room
>> temperature, but you must be sure to start your bread baking with
>> enough time to allow the biga to ferment and develop its rich flavor.
>>
>>
>>
>> Biga (bread starter)
>>
>> ¼ teaspoon active dry yeast or 1/10 small cake fresh yeast
>>
>> ¼ cup warm water
>>
>> ¾ cup plus 2 tablespoons water, room temperature
>>
>> 2-1/2 cups (about 11 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour
>>
>>
>>
>> Dough
>>
>> 1-1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast, or ½ cake (1/3 ounce) fresh yeast
>>
>> ¼ cup warm water, 105 to 115 degrees for dry yeast, 95 to 105 degrees
>> for fresh
>>
>> 2-1/3 cups water
>>
>> 1 cup (about 8 ounces) biga, measured at room temperature
>>
>> About 5-1/2 to 5-3/4 cups (approx 1-3/4 pounds) unbleached all purpose
>> flour
>>
>> 1 tablespoon sea salt or kosher salt
>>
>> Cornmeal (for baking stones or pans)
>>
>>
>>
>> To make the biga: Stir the yeast into the warm water and let stand
>> until creamy, about 10 minutes. Stir in the remaining water and then
>> the flour, 1 cup at a time. If you are making the biga by hand, mix
>> with a wooden spoon for about 4 minutes. If you are using a
>> heavy-duty electric mixer, mix with the paddle at the lowest speed for
>> about 2 minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rising: Place the sticky biga in a large lightly oiled bowl, cover
>> with plastic wrap, and let rise at cool room temperature for 24 to 48
>> hours. The starter will triple in volume, then fall back upon itself.
>> It ill still be wet and sticky when you use it, so moisten your hands
>> when you scoop some out to measure it. Cover and refrigerate after 48
>> hours. You may keep the biga refrigerated for up to 5 days.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make the dough by hand: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a
>> large mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add
>> the room temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through
>> your fingers to break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden
>> spoon until the water is chalky white and the starter is well
>> shredded. Begin stirring the flour mixed with the salt, 2 cups at a
>> time, into the yeast mixture. Beat well with a wooden spoon until the
>> dough comes together into a shaggy moist mass. Flour your work surface
>> and your dough scraper and keep a mound of flour nearby for your
>> hands. Turn the dough out onto the floured surface and, with the help
>> of the dough scraper and as little flour as possible, turn and knead
>> the dough until it gradually loses its stickiness, although it will
>> remain wet.
>>
>>
>>
>> By heavy-duty electric mixer: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a
>> large mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add
>> the room temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through
>> your fingers to break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden
>> spoon until the water is chalky white and the starter is well
>> shredded. Add the flour and salt and with the paddle attachment mix
>> until the dough comes together. You may need to add up to 4
>> tablespoons more flour, but the dough will never come away from the
>> sides and bottom of the bowl. Change to the dough hook and knead for
>> 4 to 5 minutes at medium speed. You may finish kneading the sticky
>> wet dough by hand on a well-floured surface, sprinkling the top with
>> up to 4 tablespoons more flour.
>>
>>
>>
>> First Rise: Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl. If you have a
>> straight-sided translucent plastic container, please use it so that
>> you can mark exactly where the dough starts and measure its progress
>> until it has tripled. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and let rise
>> until tripled and full of air bubbles, about 3 hours.
>>
>>
>>
>> Shaping and second rise: Turn the sticky dough out onto a
>> well-floured work surface. Flour a dough scraper and have a mound of
>> flour nearby for your hands. Pour the dough out of the bowl but do
>> not punch it down. Lightly flour the top and cut into 3 equal pieces.
>> You can moisten your hands in water if the dough seems very sticky;
>> wet hands do not stick to wet dough. Flatten each piece and roll it up
>> lengthwise, using your thumbs as a guide for how tight the rolls
>> should be. Turn the dough 90 degrees, gently pat it flat, and roll it
>> up again, still using your thumbs as a guide. Shape each piece into a
>> ball by rolling the dough between your cupped hands, using the surface
>> of your work table to generate tension and create a taut skin on the
>> surface of the dough. Place the loaves on floured parchment paper or
>> waxed paper, set them on baking sheets or pizza peels, cover with a
>> heavy cloth, and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least 30 minutes before you plan to bake, heat the oven(s) to 450
>> degrees with baking stones inside.
>>
>>
>>
>> Baking: Just before baking, sprinkle the stones with cornmeal.
>> Gently invert the loaves onto the stones-you may leave whatever
>> parchment paper has stuck to the wet dough for 15 minutes or so and
>> remove it once the dough has set. You may prefer to slide the loaves
>> onto the baking stones without turning them over; you may also leave
>> them on the baking sheets and set them directly on the stones. The
>> break will look deflated when you initially put it in, but will puff
>> up like a pillow in no time. Bake until golden brown and crusty,
>> about 35 minutes, or until a tap on the bottom produces a hollow sound
>> that indicates the loaf is baked. Cool on racks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Variation: Use 1 scant cup (5 ounces) whole wheat flour, preferably
>> stone-ground and 4-3/4 cups (1-1/3 pounds) unbleached all-purpose
>> flour.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thank you.

You're welcome. I forgot to mention what's already obvious - the recipe's
not for a bread machine. But, kneading dough is good. Visualize your boss'
neck, or your least favorite politician. :-)

Ken Knecht wrote:
> "aem" > wrote in news:1142364297.195607.42710
> @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>Better yet, skip the whole wheat
>>and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
>>worthwhile.
>
>
> I'm always trying to get more fiber in my diet. I thought maybe if I
> could find a whole wheat bread recipe I really liked it would help.
>
> I do like rye and make it sometimes.
>
>
Have you tried a 7 or 12 grain bread? I like them better than plain
whole wheat. I make both whole wheat and multi grain. The trick I use
is to make the dough in the breadmaker then proof in the oven using the
bread proofing setting and then bake using convection. That way I can
let it proof longer if needed something that using only the breadmaker
doesn't allow.

Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >>
> >> "aem" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Ken Knecht wrote:
> >> >> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
> >> >> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
> >> >>
> >> > When I was using the bread machine I found that recipes that used only
> >> > whole wheat flour were always bad. Best results were from mixing no
> >> > more than fifty percent whole wheat with other flours. That's the kind
> >> > of recipe I'd suggest you look for. Better yet, skip the whole wheat
> >> > and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
> >> > worthwhile. -aem
> >> >
> >>
> >> Pumpernickel's nothing but "other bread" colored with molasses, isn't it?
> >
> > LOL no. It's made from coarse rye grains, rye flour, sourdough and then
> > baked overnight.
>
> I haven't had it since I was a kid. The stuff in the stores now has no soul.

If you have a German deli near you can still buy it. The recipes I see
for pumpernickel which are really white bread with colouring in it make
me laugh.

Arri London wrote on 15 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> The recipes I see
> for pumpernickel which are really white bread with colouring in it make
> me laugh.
>

They make me wana cry....Think of the people who try them and don't know
better.

--
-Alan

"Ken Knecht" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> "Pandora" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Ken Knecht" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> Anyone have a really good bread-machine recipe for whole wheat bread?
>>> Those I've tried were ok but nothing special.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>
>> I Have one! But I don't know if you like it. It came out with a crispy
>> crust.
>> I don't know if the recipe is good for your bread machine. I have an
>> italian bread machine and I use dry yeast.
>> Post also your ingredients, so I can see if mine is similar or
>> different. Let me know
>>
>
> I've tried several. Here's a typical small loaf from Donna German's _The
> Bread Machine Cookbook_.
>
> water 2/3 C
> Margarine/butter 1 Tbs
> sugar 1 Tbs
> salt 1/2 tsp
> whole wheat flour 1 C
> bread flour 1 C
> nonfat dry milk 2 1/2 Tbs
> yeast 1 tsp
>
> I always use dry yeast.

I understand the problem. You put milk and eggs and margarine. I imagine
your bread
comes out very soft, doesn't it?
Unfortunately I have lost my book . Is all the day i 'm trying to find it.
Sorry. I can't give my recipe.
I hope I will find it ASAP, because I can't make bread without it (((((
BTW try to make it without eggs, replace milk with water and margarine with
olive oil. Its better!
cheers
Pandora

~patches~ > wrote in
:

> Ken Knecht wrote:
>> "aem" > wrote in news:1142364297.195607.42710
>> @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>>Better yet, skip the whole wheat
>>>and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
>>>worthwhile.
>>
>>
>> I'm always trying to get more fiber in my diet. I thought maybe if I
>> could find a whole wheat bread recipe I really liked it would help.
>>
>> I do like rye and make it sometimes.
>>
>>
> Have you tried a 7 or 12 grain bread? I like them better than plain
> whole wheat. I make both whole wheat and multi grain. The trick I use
> is to make the dough in the breadmaker then proof in the oven using the
> bread proofing setting and then bake using convection. That way I can
> let it proof longer if needed something that using only the breadmaker
> doesn't allow.
>

I've tried that in the past and liked it. But as I remember, the brand I
used had whole grains of cereals in it. I have diverticulosis and my MD
said not to eat seeds among many other things, and this flour would fit
that description. Or are there other fully ground 7 or 12 grain mixes?

I have trouble finding flours other than wheat or whole wheat here, I
can't even find rye flour in most stores.



--
Untie the two knots to email me

"Ninety percent of the polititians give the other ten
percent a bad reputation."

Henry Kissinger

Ken Knecht wrote:

> ~patches~ > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Ken Knecht wrote:
>>
>>>"aem" > wrote in news:1142364297.195607.42710
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Better yet, skip the whole wheat
>>>>and go for rye or pumpernickel. Then you'd really have something
>>>>worthwhile.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm always trying to get more fiber in my diet. I thought maybe if I
>>>could find a whole wheat bread recipe I really liked it would help.
>>>
>>>I do like rye and make it sometimes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Have you tried a 7 or 12 grain bread? I like them better than plain
>>whole wheat. I make both whole wheat and multi grain. The trick I use
>>is to make the dough in the breadmaker then proof in the oven using the
>>bread proofing setting and then bake using convection. That way I can
>>let it proof longer if needed something that using only the breadmaker
>>doesn't allow.
>>
>
>
> I've tried that in the past and liked it. But as I remember, the brand I
> used had whole grains of cereals in it. I have diverticulosis and my MD
> said not to eat seeds among many other things, and this flour would fit
> that description. Or are there other fully ground 7 or 12 grain mixes?
>
> I have trouble finding flours other than wheat or whole wheat here, I
> can't even find rye flour in most stores.
>
>
>
Ken, I'm not sure if you can find fully ground grain mixes but if you
have a food processor, you could grind them yourself. I'd start with
about a cup of the whole grains - you might have to buy each whole grain
seperately - toss in the food processor and let it go until you have a
consistency similar to flour. That way you can enjoy things like sesame
seeds without making your diverticulosis flare up. You might want to
check with your doctor before doing this just to be on the safe side.
According to the site I checked out a high-fiber diet is recommended.
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddise...iverticulosis/
I would still grind any seeds to be on the safe side but again check
with your doctor and good luck.

Ken Knecht wrote:

> I have trouble finding flours other than wheat or whole wheat here, I
> can't even find rye flour in most stores.
>
Bob's Red Mill and King Arthur both have websites, if you're talking
quantities large enough to justify an online order. Since I live in a
big city I can go find a European or Russian bakery when the urge
strikes for a good dense bread of some kind. -aem

On 16 Mar 2006 11:59:04 -0800, "aem" > wrote:

>
>Ken Knecht wrote:
>
>> I have trouble finding flours other than wheat or whole wheat here, I
>> can't even find rye flour in most stores.
>>
Try this;
Use your recipe,
substitute Post Grape Nuts Cereal for the wheat flour portion.

It makes a very tasty bread.

<rj>