Do any of your New Yorkers know what the real story is behind the
closing of the 2nd Ave. Deli last month? I just saw a posting on another
newsgroup that said it closed. Sure enough, a google search found a
story about it at

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/20...venue_deli.php

but the story was scant on details. From what this report said, the
owner balked at paying a rent increase and footing the bill to renovate
the building to meet modern code, but I suspect there's more involved. I
hope the 2nd Ave. Deli opens up in another location as it was truly a
New York landmark and one of the few places on the entire east coast
where one could go for a wonderful Kosher meal.

Pastrami lovers must be mourning the loss of this deli since I am told
the 2nd Ave. Deli's pastrami was second to none. I am not a fan of
pastrami so I defer to other people's opinions on where good pastrami
can be found.

Even though I am watching my food intake, a 90 mile trip up I95 from
Southern NJ where I live will not be the same without a meal at the 2nd
Ave. Deli.

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>
> http://www.gothamist.com/archives/20...venue_deli.php
>
> but the story was scant on details. From what this report said, the
> owner balked at paying a rent increase and footing the bill to renovate
> the building to meet modern code, but I suspect there's more involved.

You don't think an increase of $9000 a month is enough to shut down a
business? Plus renovations? Plus increased cost of utilities?

I expect to see a lot of places increase prices considerably or just shut
down as business falls off because people are struggling to pay the heating
bill and will stop eating out as often.

In article >,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> >
> > http://www.gothamist.com/archives/20...venue_deli.php
> >
> > but the story was scant on details. From what this report said, the
> > owner balked at paying a rent increase and footing the bill to renovate
> > the building to meet modern code, but I suspect there's more involved.
>
> You don't think an increase of $9000 a month is enough to shut down a
> business? Plus renovations? Plus increased cost of utilities?
>
> I expect to see a lot of places increase prices considerably or just shut
> down as business falls off because people are struggling to pay the heating
> bill and will stop eating out as often.

I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
move the deli to a different location with lower rent?

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>
> I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
> move the deli to a different location with lower rent?

Where would that be? What about the existing walk in clientele and how will
they maintain or attract new ones? Moving a business to a new neighborhood
can be death itself, or it can be the best thing that ever happened. Moving
around the corner can kill some trade. It is not always that simple, nor
it is cheap. New businesses have to comply with all the latest regulations
where an existing one may be grandfathered for certain improvements.

"Stan Horwitz wrote the 2nd Ave Deli:

> I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
> move the deli to a different location with lower rent?


With the madly escalating cost of Manhattan real estate there is no "lower
rent"...

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote

> "Stan Horwitz wrote the 2nd Ave Deli:
>
>> I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
>> move the deli to a different location with lower rent?
>
>
> With the madly escalating cost of Manhattan real estate there is no "lower
> rent"...

I understand that someone offered a space a couple of blocks away
to try to save it? Sorry, I haven't been playing along so much, but I
thought someone said that.

nancy

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> Ted Campanelli > hitched up their panties and
> posted :
>
> > Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes
> > not so great) words of knowledge:
> >
> > This wasn't Katz's Deli in the Bowery, was it ?
> >
> >> Do any of your New Yorkers know what the real story is behind the
> >> closing of the 2nd Ave. Deli last month? I just saw a posting on
> >> another newsgroup that said it closed. Sure enough, a google search
> >> found a story about it at
> >>
> >> http://www.gothamist.com/archives/20...venue_deli.php
> >>
> >> but the story was scant on details. From what this report said, the
> >> owner balked at paying a rent increase and footing the bill to
> >> renovate the building to meet modern code, but I suspect there's more
> >> involved. I hope the 2nd Ave. Deli opens up in another location as it
> >> was truly a New York landmark and one of the few places on the entire
> >> east coast where one could go for a wonderful Kosher meal.
> >>
> >> Pastrami lovers must be mourning the loss of this deli since I am
> >> told the 2nd Ave. Deli's pastrami was second to none. I am not a fan
> >> of pastrami so I defer to other people's opinions on where good
> >> pastrami can be found.
> >>
> >> Even though I am watching my food intake, a 90 mile trip up I95 from
> >> Southern NJ where I live will not be the same without a meal at the
> >> 2nd Ave. Deli.
> >
>
> Well I am mourning the demise of 2nd Avenue Deli. Mainly because I've not
> made it there. I'm not a New Yorker but it has always been a goal to eat
> there. According to friends, the Katz deli is now the place.

Not really... Katz's Deli is not kosher.

Sheldon

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:45:43 -0500, Stan Horwitz >
rummaged among random neurons and opined:


<snip>

>Pastrami lovers must be mourning the loss of this deli since I am told
>the 2nd Ave. Deli's pastrami was second to none. I am not a fan of
>pastrami so I defer to other people's opinions on where good pastrami
>can be found.

I was fortunate enough to have lunch with my daughter and Margaret
Suran not awfully long ago and can testify that the pastrami was
amazing. Can't find anything like it here in SoCal, that I've been
able to find, anyway.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:09:46 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> rummaged among random neurons and opined:

>This wasn't Katz's Deli in the Bowery, was it ?

No. Completely different place. 2nd Ave. Deli is in Manhattan.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:09:46 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> > rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
> >This wasn't Katz's Deli in the Bowery, was it ?
>
> No. Completely different place. 2nd Ave. Deli is in Manhattan.

Katz's Deli is in Manhattan too, on Houston Street... the Bowery is in
Manhattan.

http://www.katzdeli.com/presentation.html

Sheldon

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote

> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:09:46 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> > rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
>>This wasn't Katz's Deli in the Bowery, was it ?
>
> No. Completely different place. 2nd Ave. Deli is in Manhattan.

Isn't the Bowery, too?

nancy

In article >,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> >
> > I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
> > move the deli to a different location with lower rent?
>
> Where would that be? What about the existing walk in clientele and how will
> they maintain or attract new ones? Moving a business to a new neighborhood
> can be death itself, or it can be the best thing that ever happened. Moving
> around the corner can kill some trade. It is not always that simple, nor
> it is cheap. New businesses have to comply with all the latest regulations
> where an existing one may be grandfathered for certain improvements.

As someone else already mentioned, the owner had offers from as
close as a couple of blocks away. He already stated that he was on
the hook for numerous (and expensive) code improvements at the
existing location anyway. And 2nd Ave. was a long-time destination
restaurant I'd bet most 2nd Ave. customers would walk or ride a
couple blocks more to get there.

sd

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:45:53 -0800, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:45:43 -0500, Stan Horwitz >
>rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
>
><snip>
>
>>Pastrami lovers must be mourning the loss of this deli since I am told
>>the 2nd Ave. Deli's pastrami was second to none. I am not a fan of
>>pastrami so I defer to other people's opinions on where good pastrami
>>can be found.
>
>I was fortunate enough to have lunch with my daughter and Margaret
>Suran not awfully long ago and can testify that the pastrami was
>amazing. Can't find anything like it here in SoCal, that I've been
>able to find, anyway.

Have you been to Cantor's in the Fairfax District on La Cienega? That
deli is as close as I remember to the ones I grew up with in the 50s
and 60s. I have always liked it better than the 2nd Ave.

I admit, having lived near the 2nd Ave Deli for years, that I grew to
like it less and less as those years went by. I know that is not what
most feel about it here, but I had to say it.

Boron

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote

> I was fortunate enough to have lunch with my daughter and Margaret
> Suran not awfully long ago and can testify that the pastrami was
> amazing. Can't find anything like it here in SoCal, that I've been
> able to find, anyway.

Have you tried the Carnegie Deli stuff you can get from
Costco? I am quite happy with it, polished off the second
packet when we got back from vacation. So good.

nancy

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
> I was fortunate enough to have lunch with my daughter and Margaret
> Suran not awfully long ago and can testify that the pastrami was
> amazing. Can't find anything like it here in SoCal, that I've been
> able to find, anyway.
>
Next time you come up to L.A. try Langers Deli on Alvarado at 7th or
8th (I forget). It's the best pastrami in L.A. If you call your
order in you can pick it up from your car, but if you go inside you can
enjoy the huge menu just like at Carnegie Street. -aem

In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:
(snip)
>
> I admit, having lived near the 2nd Ave Deli for years, that I grew to
> like it less and less as those years went by. I know that is not what
> most feel about it here, but I had to say it.
>
> Boron

Did the quality of the food decline, your tastes change, or was it the
service? I've enjoyed their hospitality. I'm not treated here, in
restaurants I frequent regularly, as generously as I have been there, a
place I've been maybe once a year.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 2-11-2006, Sausage Roll Ups

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:18:13 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Boron Elgar > wrote:
>(snip)
>>
>> I admit, having lived near the 2nd Ave Deli for years, that I grew to
>> like it less and less as those years went by. I know that is not what
>> most feel about it here, but I had to say it.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Did the quality of the food decline, your tastes change, or was it the
>service? I've enjoyed their hospitality. I'm not treated here, in
>restaurants I frequent regularly, as generously as I have been there, a
>place I've been maybe once a year.


I think the food changed. The chopped liver was better, the challah
was moist and fresher, the tongue was nicer, the salami was
impeccable...(of course, you cannot get good Jewish salami anywhere
anymore the waiters were 90 years old and had been serving there
since the year 1. The place was cleaner.

Neither Katz's or The Carnegie stayed the same, either.

The places I miss the most, though, are the dairy restaurants that
used to be in the garment district. Those places were something else.

I started going to all of them in the early 70s.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
> The places I miss the most, though, are the dairy restaurants that
> used to be in the garment district. Those places were something else.
>
> I started going to all of them in the early 70s.
>
> Boron

I used to like the Ambassador in Philly. It was on Girard Avenue. Last time
I was there was about 25 years ago though. Yes, the waiters were all very
old and had been there for many years.

Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:18:13 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Boron Elgar > wrote:
> >(snip)
> >>
> >> I admit, having lived near the 2nd Ave Deli for years, that I grew to
> >> like it less and less as those years went by. I know that is not what
> >> most feel about it here, but I had to say it.
> >>
> >> Boron
> >
> >Did the quality of the food decline, your tastes change, or was it the
> >service? I've enjoyed their hospitality. I'm not treated here, in
> >restaurants I frequent regularly, as generously as I have been there, a
> >place I've been maybe once a year.
>
>
> I think the food changed. The chopped liver was better, the challah
> was moist and fresher, the tongue was nicer, the salami was
> impeccable...(of course, you cannot get good Jewish salami anywhere
> anymore the waiters were 90 years old and had been serving there
> since the year 1. The place was cleaner.
>
> Neither Katz's or The Carnegie stayed the same, either.
>
> The places I miss the most, though, are the dairy restaurants that
> used to be in the garment district. Those places were something else.
>
> I started going to all of them in the early 70s.

There are no kosher delis that are anywhere close to the quality that
existed in the early '70s, and even those didn't compare to those in
the '40s-'50s. Today there are no more kosher delis in NYC than
fingers on two hands. Your unborn grandchildren will very likely never
experience a kosher deli, none that close ever reopen... no one in
their right mind would consider operating a kosher deli nowadays. The
few decent ones still left are all in Brooklyn.

http://brooklyn.citysearch.com/searc...telAttraction=

The 2nd Ave Deli closed for one reason and one reason only... the owner
got old, was time to retire.

Sheldon

On Sun 19 Feb 2006 08:24:19p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Edwin
Pawlowski?

>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>> The places I miss the most, though, are the dairy restaurants that
>> used to be in the garment district. Those places were something else.
>>
>> I started going to all of them in the early 70s.
>>
>> Boron
>
> I used to like the Ambassador in Philly. It was on Girard Avenue. Last
> time I was there was about 25 years ago though. Yes, the waiters were
> all very old and had been there for many years.

It's usually like that in the grand old steakhouses, too. I've never seen a
young waiter in one.



--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:09:46 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> > rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
>>This wasn't Katz's Deli in the Bowery, was it ?
>
> No. Completely different place. 2nd Ave. Deli is in Manhattan.
>

Bowery is a street and a neighborhood in Manhattan.

In article >,
me > wrote:

> In article >,
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> > "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > I am not questioning the concern about the rental increase, but why not
> > > move the deli to a different location with lower rent?
> >
> > Where would that be? What about the existing walk in clientele and how
> > will
> > they maintain or attract new ones? Moving a business to a new neighborhood
> > can be death itself, or it can be the best thing that ever happened. Moving
> > around the corner can kill some trade. It is not always that simple, nor
> > it is cheap. New businesses have to comply with all the latest regulations
> > where an existing one may be grandfathered for certain improvements.
>
> As someone else already mentioned, the owner had offers from as
> close as a couple of blocks away. He already stated that he was on
> the hook for numerous (and expensive) code improvements at the
> existing location anyway. And 2nd Ave. was a long-time destination
> restaurant I'd bet most 2nd Ave. customers would walk or ride a
> couple blocks more to get there.

I just spoke on the phone with Margaret Suran, who just finished having
computer problems, so she's way behind with email and RFC. Margaret told
me the owner had an offer to move directly across the street and that he
made no attempt to acknowledge requests from his landlord to negotiate a
new lease. I suspect Sheldon is correct that he just wanted to get out
of the business, but its sad that he didn't even try to sell the 2nd
Ave. Deli to someone else ... or maybe he did.

At least I still have their cookbook!

Stan Horwitz wrote:
>
> I just spoke on the phone with Margaret Suran, who just finished having
> computer problems, so she's way behind with email and RFC. Margaret told
> me the owner had an offer to move directly across the street and that he
> made no attempt to acknowledge requests from his landlord to negotiate a
> new lease. I suspect Sheldon is correct that he just wanted to get out
> of the business, but its sad that he didn't even try to sell the 2nd
> Ave. Deli to someone else ... or maybe he did.
>
> At least I still have their cookbook!

The entire planet knew the business was available for offers... there
were no good faith offers, obviously. Offering a cheaper place to rent
is no offer at all, just some greedy jerks with empty storefronts. No
one in their right mind would choose to go into the kosher deli
business. There hasn't been a new kosher deli grand opening in at
least twenty years. Since some of yoose are so interested and think
the deal is so great why don't you buy it... because compared with the
kosher deli business coal mining is a piece of cake. And none of you
would have a clue where to begin... there's no kosher deli school, you
learn only from the cradle... and it's a far more difficult occupation
than coal mining, you answer to a far higher authority than the
UMWA.org.

Sheldon

"Sheldon" > wrote

> learn only from the cradle... and it's a far more difficult occupation
> than coal mining, you answer to a far higher authority than the
> UMWA.org.

Who?

nancy

"Margaret Suran" > wrote

> Nancy Young wrote:
>> "Sheldon" > wrote

>>>learn only from the cradle... and it's a far more difficult occupation
>>>than coal mining, you answer to a far higher authority than the
>>>UMWA.org.

>> Who?

> Alex, of course. Just ask Barbara. )

Oh! Silly me ... tsk tsk ... I must pay closer attention.

(smile) nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote
>
> > learn only from the cradle... and it's a far more difficult occupation
> > than coal mining, you answer to a far higher authority than the
> > UMWA.org.
>
> Who?

The Rabbinical Maffia of course.

United Kashrut Authority

http://www.hechshers.info/kashauth/index.htm

Nancy Young wrote on 20 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> Who?
>
> nancy
>

Pssst! Nanners read your mail...

--
-Alan

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:41:00 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> rummaged among random neurons and opined:

>Have you tried the Carnegie Deli stuff you can get from
>Costco? I am quite happy with it, polished off the second
>packet when we got back from vacation. So good.
>
No - is it in the meat section or frozen? It's the marvelous,
handcarved pastrami that I can't find in Orange County. <sigh!>

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote

> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:41:00 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
>>Have you tried the Carnegie Deli stuff you can get from
>>Costco? I am quite happy with it, polished off the second
>>packet when we got back from vacation. So good.
>>
> No - is it in the meat section or frozen? It's the marvelous,
> handcarved pastrami that I can't find in Orange County. <sigh!>

Dee Dee turned me on to it, I am continually whining about the
dirth of good deli sandwiches outside of NYC (smile) ... it's
in the case by the kielbasi? That type of stuff? It's in a black
box (that was my overall impression) with a neon sign saying
Carnegie Deli. The box contains two packets of pastrami, I
heated it in boiling water (ala boil-in bag).

It's great, and I froze one packet, it came out perfectly as well.

nancy

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:11:26 -0800, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:41:00 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
>>Have you tried the Carnegie Deli stuff you can get from
>>Costco? I am quite happy with it, polished off the second
>>packet when we got back from vacation. So good.
>>
>No - is it in the meat section or frozen? It's the marvelous,
>handcarved pastrami that I can't find in Orange County. <sigh!>
>
>Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

I have heard, that Langers Deli in Los Angeles has wonderful pastrami.
Have you tried it?

Christine

In article >,
Terry Pulliam Burd > wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:41:00 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > rummaged among random neurons and opined:
>
> >Have you tried the Carnegie Deli stuff you can get from
> >Costco? I am quite happy with it, polished off the second
> >packet when we got back from vacation. So good.
> >
> No - is it in the meat section or frozen? It's the marvelous,
> handcarved pastrami that I can't find in Orange County. <sigh!>

What about that deli in the Rodeo Drive area; I think its called Nate's
or Nick's. The food there was awesome that last time I was there, but
that was in 1999 when I tagged along with a friend to attend a science
fiction convention. Its a bit of a schlep from Orange County, but not
nearly as long as a cross country trip to Manhattan! Is that place still
there? I heard it was popular with the local show business celebrities.

Sheldon is, as usual, a total idiot.

Kosher delis open up all the time.

In other cities.

--Blair

Arthur Shapiro wrote:
> At the risk of igniting a jihad:
>
> I'm in So Cal, and upon my most recent visit to NYC a couple years ago I was
> taken to one of the "big name" delis (I believe the Carnegie) for lunch.
>
> I was anxious for some real corned beef, specifically a corned beef and Swiss
> on rye.
>
> No Could Do!

Of course not, no dairy and meat, not at a kosher deli.

But The Carnegie is kosher style, not kosher.

If you were at The Carnegie they would have gladly served you cheese,
look at their menu: http://www.carnegiedeli.com

That said, being from S. Calif. you'd have no way to compare corned
beef, there is no _real_ corned beef west of Chicago, not now, never
was.

Sheldon spewed:

: That said, being from S. Calif. you'd have no way to compare corned
: beef, there is no _real_ corned beef west of Chicago, not now, never
: was.



Gawd Sheldon's an idiot - the above statement shows what a complete
ignoramus he really is! He lives in his own little world, outside
of it there is no other.

wrote:
> Sheldon spewed:
>
> : That said, being from S. Calif. you'd have no way to compare corned
> : beef, there is no _real_ corned beef west of Chicago, not now, never
> : was.
>
> Gawd Sheldon's an idiot - the above statement shows what a complete
> ignoramus he really is! He lives in his own little world, outside
> of it there is no other.

So you've been lurking a day or so and figure that your entree is to
join the Sheldon bashers, huh? While you go look up 'hyberbole' take a
detour to see if you can find a sense of humor. There will be lots of
better occasions to bash him -- picking this one says more about you
than about him. -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> Sheldon spewed:
>>
>> : That said, being from S. Calif. you'd have no way to compare corned
>> : beef, there is no _real_ corned beef west of Chicago, not now, never
>> : was.
>>
>> Gawd Sheldon's an idiot - the above statement shows what a complete
>> ignoramus he really is! He lives in his own little world, outside
>> of it there is no other.
>
> So you've been lurking a day or so and figure that your entree is to
> join the Sheldon bashers, huh? While you go look up 'hyberbole' take a
> detour to see if you can find a sense of humor. There will be lots of
> better occasions to bash him -- picking this one says more about you
> than about him. -aem
>

When I first started visiting the group it took me less than a day to
realize that sheldoon was a jackass and to killfile him. Some things are
obvious right away.

In any case, a while back there was a comparison of deli corned beef -
Rosengarten report maybe? - and one of the very best was from a deli in Los
Angeles.


--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:
>[snip]
> In any case, a while back there was a comparison of deli corned beef -
> Rosengarten report maybe? - and one of the very best was from a deli in Los
> Angeles.
>
I missed that, but the pastrami at Langer's Deli in L.A. is as good as
any in NYC. -aem

Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> In any case, a while back there was a comparison of deli corned beef -
> Rosengarten report maybe? - and one of the very best was from a deli in Los
> Angeles.

Yep, and you remember the name of that restaurant the same way Sqwertz
remembers the model of his Lover knife... in yer dreams... both yoose
pinheaded liars. Next thing yoose garbage-for-ethics scum buckets is
gonna claim is you can't remember the model car yoose drive unless
you're driving it. Liars!

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:50:41 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>In any case, a while back there was a comparison of deli corned beef -
>Rosengarten report maybe? - and one of the very best was from a deli in Los
>Angeles.

That would be Langers, I think. Also has some of the best pastrami
around.

Christine

In article >, Christine Dabney > wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:50:41 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:
>
>>In any case, a while back there was a comparison of deli corned beef -
>>Rosengarten report maybe? - and one of the very best was from a deli in Los
>>Angeles.

In fairness to Sheldon, it IS somewhat difficult to find corned beef, let
alone good corned beef, in Southern California. Here in Orange County, a
number of delis I frequent have abandoned corned beef, with the typical
complaint being that they'd have to throw out quite a bit due to insufficient
numbers of orders.

For those out here, the El Toro Meat Market in Lake Forest has more than
decent, if not stellar, corned beef sandwiches. And none of the "no cheese"
bologna!

Art (btw, originally from Philadelphia - I am quite familiar with good cold
cuts!)