Here in the UK at Tesco's you can get bargain aluminium kitchen foil
for 24 pence (about 40 cents) for 10 metres.

Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
metre. Weird pricing.

I would much prefer to cover a bowl of food in the fridge with foil
because the cling film does let a bit if smell through.

But to use foil widely with the same carefreeness as cling-film
(because it's the same price) feels strange!

If that is the only strange thing going on in your life, you are indeed, a
very lucky person.


"Jane S" > wrote in message
...
> Here in the UK at Tesco's you can get bargain aluminium kitchen foil
> for 24 pence (about 40 cents) for 10 metres.
>
> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> metre. Weird pricing.
>
> I would much prefer to cover a bowl of food in the fridge with foil
> because the cling film does let a bit if smell through.
>
> But to use foil widely with the same carefreeness as cling-film
> (because it's the same price) feels strange!

Following up to Jane S

>Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
>metre. Weird pricing.

the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"The Reid" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Jane S
>
>>Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
>>metre. Weird pricing.
>
> the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
> are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.
> --
> Mike Reid
> Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this
> site
> Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all,
> it's a spamtrap

Yes but cling-film makes a much better drum sound than tinfoil!

------------------------------------------------------------------
beat debt with no bad side affects www.icannow.com

Fran wrote:

> "The Reid" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
>>> metre. Weird pricing.
>> the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
>> are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.

> Yes but cling-film makes a much better drum sound than tinfoil!

But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.

G

i thin someone been watching one too many sci fi films!!!!!!!!!!!!



"Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote in message
...
> Fran wrote:
>
> > "The Reid" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> >>> metre. Weird pricing.
> >> the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
> >> are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.
>
> > Yes but cling-film makes a much better drum sound than tinfoil!
>
> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.
>
> G

Geoff Winkless ]> wrote:

> Fran wrote:
>
> > "The Reid" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> >>> metre. Weird pricing.
> >> the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
> >> are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.
>
> > Yes but cling-film makes a much better drum sound than tinfoil!
>
> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.

That's right. I'd vote to use cling film. Save the foil for hats and
underwear (when the black helicopters are in view), and because
aluminium foil is extremely environmentally expensive to produce.

regards
sarah

--
Think of it as evolution in action.

"Fran" > wrote in message
...
>
> "The Reid" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Following up to Jane S
>>
>>>Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
>>>metre. Weird pricing.
>>
>> the Tesco value range is priced very cheaply, dont know if they
>> are actual loss leaders, at cost or a small profit.
>> --
>> Mike Reid
>> Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this
>> site
>> Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all,
>> it's a spamtrap
>
> Yes but cling-film makes a much better drum sound than tinfoil!

Oh I disagree, you can get a snappy snare type sound from tight tin foil
rather than the Eastenders type tom tom sound from cling film.

BC

sarah wrote:
o, and because
> aluminium foil is extremely environmentally expensive to produce.
>
> regards
> sarah

Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
clingfilm / saran wrap?

sarah wrote:
o, and because
> aluminium foil is extremely environmentally expensive to produce.
>
> regards
> sarah

Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
plastic wraps cannot.

"Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote

> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.

How did you know about ... my hat ... dammit you read
my mind, didn't you.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote in message ...
> "Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote
>
> > But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.

> How did you know about ... my hat ... dammit you read
> my mind, didn't you.

Didn't you have it shiny side out ? )


--
Him & Her.

Find "Her" on eBay @ http://snipurl.com/3vvp
Find "Him" on eBay @ http://snipurl.com/hi2v

Jude wrote:
> Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
> clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
> plastic wraps cannot.
>

Do you recycle your foil? I can't remember seeing it on the list of
things collected each week, I'll look it up when I get home.
I'm all for protecting the earth's resources and putting things in the
correct bins, but I don't recycle aluminium foil. I would imagine that
it gets picked out and thrown onto the land fill pile when a bag of
drinks cans and foil reaches the recycling depot. It must play havoc
with the can shredders.
My grandmother washes her used foil in the sink and rolls it out flat
for the next use. Mad as a snake.

--
-------
# | |
:===[==¬|====;
[/ \|___|_/ \|
\_/ \_/
DavidM

"Jane S" > wrote in message
...
> Here in the UK at Tesco's you can get bargain aluminium kitchen foil
> for 24 pence (about 40 cents) for 10 metres.
>
> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> metre. Weird pricing.
>
> I would much prefer to cover a bowl of food in the fridge with foil
> because the cling film does let a bit if smell through.
>
> But to use foil widely with the same carefreeness as cling-film
> (because it's the same price) feels strange!

Remember that cling-film, as a plastic, is harmful to human life, especially
if heated near food.
http://www.ourstolenfuture.com/

That's not to say that aluminium foil isn't coated with anything harmful, or
just the Al is harmful.

I'd stick to the metal though.

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote
>
>> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling film.
>
> How did you know about ... my hat ... dammit you read
> my mind, didn't you.
>
> nancy
>
Beware, use of tinfoil hats may be counter productive and enhance
government control!!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

It may be that only a full Faraday cage is effective! You have been warned!

henry

Jane S wrote:
> Here in the UK at Tesco's you can get bargain aluminium kitchen foil
> for 24 pence (about 40 cents) for 10 metres.
>
> Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> metre. Weird pricing.
>
> I would much prefer to cover a bowl of food in the fridge with foil
> because the cling film does let a bit if smell through.
>
> But to use foil widely with the same carefreeness as cling-film
> (because it's the same price) feels strange!

They are each useful in their own way - I'd never think of lining a
baking pan with cling film. Nor would I tightly cover a bowl of rising
dough with foil. It isn't one or the other - it's both. (And reuse
the foil, if possible.)

N.

DavidM wrote:
> Jude wrote:
> > Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
> > clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
> > plastic wraps cannot.
> >
>
> Do you recycle your foil? I can't remember seeing it on the list of
> things collected each week, I'll look it up when I get home.
> I'm all for protecting the earth's resources and putting things in the
> correct bins, but I don't recycle aluminium foil. I would imagine that
> it gets picked out and thrown onto the land fill pile when a bag of
> drinks cans and foil reaches the recycling depot. It must play havoc
> with the can shredders.
> My grandmother washes her used foil in the sink and rolls it out flat
> for the next use. Mad as a snake.


I throw my foil in the recycle bin....but then again, here in VA, we
don't have to separate our stuff. Everything goes in the same can -
plastics, paper, metal, glass gets mixed together in a collection bin.
I believe foil was specifically on the 'acceptable' list. So yes, my
daughter knows that her lunchbox comes home filled with her used
baggies and foil. We recycle the foil and wash out the ziplocs to
reuse.

Anyway, this does not answer the original question. Why is foil worse
for the environment than a petrolium-based plastic product?

DavidM > wrote:

> Jude wrote:
> > Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
> > clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
> > plastic wraps cannot.

Although they aren't recycled (I'm not certain they *can't* be), dollars
get you donuts films are far less energy-intensive to produce and
transport than aluminium foil. I use a lot of ex-food containers or
other re-useable containers in preference to either foil or clingfilm.
I've quoted the post below because it's an important point in the
argument.
>
> Do you recycle your foil? I can't remember seeing it on the list of
> things collected each week, I'll look it up when I get home.
> I'm all for protecting the earth's resources and putting things in the
> correct bins, but I don't recycle aluminium foil. I would imagine that
> it gets picked out and thrown onto the land fill pile when a bag of
> drinks cans and foil reaches the recycling depot. It must play havoc
> with the can shredders.
> My grandmother washes her used foil in the sink and rolls it out flat
> for the next use. Mad as a snake.

I wash and re-use foil several times before recycling it (and aluminium
catfood containers); I take them to the non-ferrous metals bin in the
recycling centre, along with carpet-fastening strips, curtain rails and
anything else made of aluminium. Not to mention copper pipe and so
forth. I even wash and re-use freezer bags.

FWIW to produce aluminium from ore is said to require 20x more energy
than from the recycled metal: if you're not trying to find a way to
recycle your foil, you should be :-)

regards
sarah

Not as 'holier-than-thou' as the above might make me appear. I have
other vices!


--
Think of it as evolution in action.

Nancy1 wrote:
> Jane S wrote:
> > Here in the UK at Tesco's you can get bargain aluminium kitchen foil
> > for 24 pence (about 40 cents) for 10 metres.
> >
> > Meanwhile, regular (non-bargain) cling film costs about the same per
> > metre. Weird pricing.
> >
> > I would much prefer to cover a bowl of food in the fridge with foil
> > because the cling film does let a bit if smell through.
> >
> > But to use foil widely with the same carefreeness as cling-film
> > (because it's the same price) feels strange!
>
> They are each useful in their own way - I'd never think of lining a
> baking pan with cling film. Nor would I tightly cover a bowl of rising
> dough with foil. It isn't one or the other - it's both. (And reuse
> the foil, if possible.)

That's about it.

I never use foil other than for in oven use, and never for covering
food for storage. Aluminim is reactive and will when in contact with
foods for any length of time, especially acetic foods, will begin
electrolytic action, in effect will form a battery and disintegrate the
foil, imparting an awful flavor to the food. For covering food for
storage I use plastic, or glass, never metal of any kind, not even
stainless steel. I actually use very little cling wrap, mostly I store
foods in the fridge in a glass/ceramic bowl with a plate as a cover....
easy to heat in the nuker if need be and just eat from the bowl or if
too much then from the plate... nothing to recycle. A large roll of
aluminum foil (200' Reynolds) lasts me years, many years... the roll
I'm using now is at about the half way point, I dated it 1998... I use
plastic wrap at about the same rate. When I have odd shaped left
overs, like pizza, I put it on a cheapo paper plate and stick that into
one of those plastic grocery bags. Before any of yoose say that's not
clean, I buy brand new plastic bags in cases of 1000, they are just as
sterile as rolls of plastic wrap. I buy those bags in bulk (they're
cheap, $6/1000) because I use way more than I can save from shopping, I
use them for when cleaning cat litter pans. So they're still used for
trash after I'm done with them for food storage... again no extra
waste. And Zip-Locs can be re-used, they can be cleaned in the
dishwasher, just don't use the Dry cycle.

I don't think there can be any dispute that the US is the most
"disposable" society on the planet, probably more so than all others
combined, but with a modicum of common sense waste can be cut down
considerably.

Sheldon

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:09:26 +0000, DavidM wrote:

> Jude wrote:
>> Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
>> clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
>> plastic wraps cannot.
>>
>>
> Do you recycle your foil? I can't remember seeing it on the list of things
> collected each week, I'll look it up when I get home.

Depends on the local authority, I shouldn't wonder, but Bristol does take
*clean* foil:

<http://www.recyclingconsortium.org.uk/primary/home_recycling_bristol.htm>

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x5010dbff <http://www.assursys.com/>

sarah wrote:

>FWIW to produce aluminium from ore is said to require 20x more energy
>than from the recycled metal: if you're not trying to find a way to
>recycle your foil, you should be :-)

Aluminium smelters are so power hungry that they are generally built
with accompanying hydro-electricity plants so the energy that goes
into extracting aluminium is carbon neutral.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Jude wrote:
>
> Anyway, this does not answer the original question. Why is foil worse
> for the environment than a petrolium-based plastic product?

Actually aluminum foil is more a petroleum based product than plastic
wrap. Aluminum doesn't just grow on trees... requires a lot of energy
to make aluminun, from mining bauxite, to smelting, to milling the
finished product, a lot of fossil fuel is consumed. But aluminum
really doesn't pollute, it's very biodegradable...and aluminum is one
of the most common elements on the planet anyway, just doesn't
naturally occur in it's shiny metalic state.

So does anyone know what goes into producing Plastic Wraps? i'd always
chosen foil, thinking it was a better environmental choice than
plastics. Easy enough to wrap my daughter's sandwiches in plastic wrap
if that's better.....I don't like baggies for sandwiches. Everything
falls out. I do make effort to be as easy on the earth as I can be,
although in our rush-rush society, there's less time I can put into
learning what's best for the planet than there was when I was a young,
starry eyed college student who considered herself an environmentalist.
Sad that this conversation is enlightening for me - if foil is that
bad to produce, I should have had some glimmer of an idea!

As far as clean vs used foil, I've read many articles that say you do't
actually need to wash your cans before recycling; the extreme heat used
to remelt the metals wil burn off any food particles. Washing food cans
for recycling seems to have more to do with keeping bugs out of your
recycling center =) So that leads me to assume that foil with food
residue is just as recyclable as 'clean' foil.

And to answer the comment from Sarah, who indicated that plastic wrap
might be recyclable, I wonder how we could find out for sure. Here, we
can recycle hard plastics that are indicated with a #1q or #2 only.
Although there are platics up to #6 that "CAN" be recycyled, I've never
seen an American city that takes them, so there must be very little
market for them. To me, they're no different from anything else
disposable - if recycling is not available, then they aren't *truly*
recyclable.

sarah wrote:
> DavidM > wrote:
>
> > Jude wrote:
> > > Yes, but is it better or worse than a plastic based product like
> > > clingfilm / saran wrap? And foil can be recycled after use, which
> > > plastic wraps cannot.
>
> Although they aren't recycled (I'm not certain they *can't* be), dollars
> get you donuts films are far less energy-intensive to produce and
> transport than aluminium foil. I use a lot of ex-food containers or
> other re-useable containers in preference to either foil or clingfilm.
> I've quoted the post below because it's an important point in the
> argument.
> >
> > Do you recycle your foil? I can't remember seeing it on the list of
> > things collected each week, I'll look it up when I get home.
> > I'm all for protecting the earth's resources and putting things in the
> > correct bins, but I don't recycle aluminium foil. I would imagine that
> > it gets picked out and thrown onto the land fill pile when a bag of
> > drinks cans and foil reaches the recycling depot. It must play havoc
> > with the can shredders.
> > My grandmother washes her used foil in the sink and rolls it out flat
> > for the next use. Mad as a snake.
>
> I wash and re-use foil several times before recycling it (and aluminium
> catfood containers); I take them to the non-ferrous metals bin in the
> recycling centre, along with carpet-fastening strips, curtain rails and
> anything else made of aluminium. Not to mention copper pipe and so
> forth. I even wash and re-use freezer bags.
>
> FWIW to produce aluminium from ore is said to require 20x more energy
> than from the recycled metal: if you're not trying to find a way to
> recycle your foil, you should be :-)

Aluminum per se doesn't pollute, it's in its manufacture where the
pollution takes place, so it is important to reuse/recyle it. But by
the same token it's even more important to reuse/recycle steel
containers... there is far, far more more steel used for cans than
aluminum.

Sheldon wrote:
> sarah wrote:

..
> >
> > FWIW to produce aluminium from ore is said to require 20x more energy
> > than from the recycled metal: if you're not trying to find a way to
> > recycle your foil, you should be :-)
>
> Aluminum per se doesn't pollute, it's in its manufacture where the
> pollution takes place, so it is important to reuse/recyle it. But by
> the same token it's even more important to reuse/recycle steel
> containers... there is far, far more more steel used for cans than
> aluminum.

OK. I do reuse all plastic containers, like the ones I get at the deli
counter, although I won't use them in the microwave, they made great
storage and last really well. But as far as steel food cans, other than
for steamed boston brown bread, how can I reuse them? Mine get a rinse
and go straight into the recycling bin. Any suggstions would be greatly
appreciated!

Anyone who throwns away soda cans should be shot. They are such an easy
recycle! I wish deposit programs had become more popular.....when I was
gorwing up in NY, scrounging cans was always a way teenagers could come
up with a little spending money, digging through the family'strash can.
Homeless people in NYC have a decent source of income at 5 cents per
can they find in the trash. It seems that in cities with bottle / can
deposit laws, there are many opportunities for the cans to get there
for econmic reasons as well as environmental ones.

Tangent - who's seen the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and Newman fill
the mail truck with cans and drive them to the midwest to claim the
deposit?

Phil Cook wrote:
> sarah wrote:
>>FWIW to produce aluminium from ore is said to require 20x more energy
>>than from the recycled metal: if you're not trying to find a way to
>>recycle your foil, you should be :-)

Absolutely. There used to be a campaign to collect pull-rings from
fizzy drinks tins for this purpose. Very commendable[1]. WRT foil,
I tend to collect iy up, and stuff it into any aluminium beer tins
or whatever to prevent it being "lost" during recycling.


> Aluminium smelters are so power hungry that they are generally built
> with accompanying hydro-electricity plants so the energy that goes
> into extracting aluminium is carbon neutral.

Well, it's "carbon neutral" if you ignore the opportunity cost of
using hydroelectric power in this way.




[1] Except that the bulk of the material - the tin - was thrown away!

Sheldon wrote:
> Aluminum per se doesn't pollute, it's in its manufacture where the
> pollution takes place, so it is important to reuse/recyle it. But by
> the same token it's even more important to reuse/recycle steel
> containers... there is far, far more more steel used for cans than
> aluminum.

Coo, you still cookin'? (r.f.c., ISTR, haven't been there for ages).

It's not just the pollution that's the issue, it's the energy cost,
re- cycling takes only 5% of the energy needed to smelt aluminium.

These elements are extremely plentiful, however - when we get good
amounts of energy from nuclear power, recycling will be *far* less
important than now.

Sheldon wrote:
> Jude wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, this does not answer the original question. Why is foil worse
> > for the environment than a petrolium-based plastic product?
>
> Actually aluminum foil is more a petroleum based product than plastic
> wrap. Aluminum doesn't just grow on trees... requires a lot of energy
> to make aluminun, from mining bauxite, to smelting, to milling the
> finished product, a lot of fossil fuel is consumed. But aluminum
> really doesn't pollute, it's very biodegradable...and aluminum is one
> of the most common elements on the planet anyway, just doesn't
> naturally occur in it's shiny metalic state.

So, where do you stand on which is better?

I was going with foil for the reasons you stated - it's a common
element and it's biodegradable. Wasn't thinking about fossil fuels,
etc. And of course mining is another issue altogether - I hearda lot
of anti-mining arguments when I lived near the abandoned / depleted
strip mines in Madrid, NM.

So in my head this led to foil being a better choice.

But I know very little about how the thin film of plastic is made. I
know more about petrolium-based plastics in tupperware, food packaging,
etc, but I'm not sure what's doe differently to make it thin and
pliable. I would guess it probably is more chemical manipulation. I've
overall always tried to choose non-plastic options. My outdoor
furniture is wrought iron, no plastic deck chairs. I carry a metal
spoon and fork in my lunchbox and wash them daily. My daughter had a
number of wooden and metal toys from my childhood and from handmade ty
makers, not all the modern plastic junk. Like that. (The bad exception
- grocery store bags. i hate those things, but my local stores don't
even OFFER paper anymore, and if I ask for itm, they have to go lookig
for them half the time.)

I used to be better about the little things, like always having a piece
of tupperware in my purse if I went out, so i wouldn't need to take a
box for leftovers.

Ofcourse, I could start a whole NEW issue here about overpackging. how
much better is it that I make a sandwich and wrap it n foil rather than
buy my daughter a Lunchable, with the cardboard box, plastic tray,
plastic covering, and individually packaged items inside? Or that I buy
a bag of chips,. put a handful into a ziploc baggie, wash the baggie
and reuse it until it gets torn, instead of buying mutli-packs of small
lunchbox sized bags of chips.

But I digress.

Chris Bacon wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Aluminum per se doesn't pollute, it's in its manufacture where the
> > pollution takes place,
>
> It's not just the pollution that's the issue, it's the energy cost,


What do you think "manufacture" entails... energy consumption! duh

Sheldon

Jude wrote:

> Sheldon wrote:
>
>>Jude wrote:
>>
>>>Anyway, this does not answer the original question. Why is foil worse
>>>for the environment than a petrolium-based plastic product?
>>
>>Actually aluminum foil is more a petroleum based product than plastic
>>wrap. Aluminum doesn't just grow on trees... requires a lot of energy
>>to make aluminun, from mining bauxite, to smelting, to milling the
>>finished product, a lot of fossil fuel is consumed. But aluminum
>>really doesn't pollute, it's very biodegradable...and aluminum is one
>>of the most common elements on the planet anyway, just doesn't
>>naturally occur in it's shiny metalic state.
>
>
> So, where do you stand on which is better?
>
> I was going with foil for the reasons you stated - it's a common
> element and it's biodegradable.


Aluminum biodegradable? I think not.

Peter

On 18 Jan 2006, Sheldon wrote:

> I never use foil other than for in oven use, and never for
> covering food for storage. Aluminim is reactive and will when
> in contact with foods for any length of time, especially acetic
> foods, will begin electrolytic action, in effect will form a
> battery and disintegrate the foil, imparting an awful flavor to
> the food. For covering food for storage I use plastic, or
> glass, never metal of any kind, not even stainless steel. I
> actually use very little cling wrap, mostly I store foods in the
> fridge in a glass/ceramic bowl with a plate as a cover.... easy
> to heat in the nuker if need be and just eat from the bowl or if
> too much then from the plate... nothing to recycle. A large
> roll of aluminum foil (200' Reynolds) lasts me years, many
> years... the roll I'm using now is at about the half way point,
> I dated it 1998... I use plastic wrap at about the same rate.
> When I have odd shaped left overs, like pizza, I put it on a
> cheapo paper plate and stick that into one of those plastic
> grocery bags. Before any of yoose say that's not clean, I buy
> brand new plastic bags in cases of 1000, they are just as
> sterile as rolls of plastic wrap. I buy those bags in bulk
> (they're cheap, $6/1000) because I use way more than I can save
> from shopping, I use them for when cleaning cat litter pans. So
> they're still used for trash after I'm done with them for food
> storage... again no extra waste. And Zip-Locs can be re-used,
> they can be cleaned in the dishwasher, just don't use the Dry
> cycle.
>
> I don't think there can be any dispute that the US is the most
> "disposable" society on the planet, probably more so than all
> others combined, but with a modicum of common sense waste can be
> cut down considerably.
>

If the foil is not in contact with food then it is not likely to
react. Of course, fumes from hot food could be a factor.

Also, as the Wiki says, foil acts as a complete barrier to light
(which spoils fats), odours, loss or gain of moisture, and
bacteria.

By contrast Cling Film is slightly porous to gases and all that
that implies for odours, mositure loss, etc.

WM wrote:
>
> Also, as the Wiki says, foil acts as a complete barrier to light


I don't know about you but when I close the door my fridge light goes
out.

Chris Bacon > wrote:

> Phil Cook wrote:

[-]
> > Aluminium smelters are so power hungry that they are generally built
> > with accompanying hydro-electricity plants so the energy that goes
> > into extracting aluminium is carbon neutral.
>
> Well, it's "carbon neutral" if you ignore the opportunity cost of
> using hydroelectric power in this way.

Yes. Hydro isn't carbon neutral anyway -- the construction costs are
large (all that concrete, one of the most carbon-intensive building
materials. Alas.) And to start with the rotting vegetation under water
emits a lot of methane and other greenhouse gases. Depending on location
the schemes aren't permanent, either -- all reservoirs will fill with
silt eventually, although some take much longer than others.

>
> [1] Except that the bulk of the material - the tin - was thrown away!

Ouch.

regards
sarah

--
Think of it as evolution in action.

Jude > wrote:

[-]
> And to answer the comment from Sarah, who indicated that plastic wrap
> might be recyclable, I wonder how we could find out for sure. Here, we
> can recycle hard plastics that are indicated with a #1q or #2 only.
> Although there are platics up to #6 that "CAN" be recycyled, I've never
> seen an American city that takes them, so there must be very little
> market for them. To me, they're no different from anything else
> disposable - if recycling is not available, then they aren't *truly*
> recyclable.

That's a fair point. My understanding is that most plastics 'can' be
recycled, but the process requires accurate, precise and fast sorting
into appropriate types. The local authority only takes 1 and 2, because
that's the greatest bulk and most of us can be trusted to deal with
something so simple. I avoid the problem by avoiding foil and cling film
whenever possible; I wash and re-use plastic bags instead. His
sandwiches are wrapped in greaseproof paper, though. I don't like the
thought of trying to re-use a bag that's had food/remains of food
sitting in it at room temperature for 12 or more hours!

regards
sarah


--
Think of it as evolution in action.

Henry wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote
>>
>>> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling
>>> film.
>>
>> How did you know about ... my hat ... dammit you read
>> my mind, didn't you.
>>
>> nancy
>>
> Beware, use of tinfoil hats may be counter productive and enhance
> government control!!
>
> http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
>
> It may be that only a full Faraday cage is effective! You have been
> warned!

The only safe way is to wrap yourself totally in foil. Leave no gaps at all.
Airtight even*.

The only safe way *for the rest of us*, anyway ;-)



* - Joke. Do not try this at home.

"sarah" > wrote in message
. ..
> Jude > wrote:
>
> [-]
>> And to answer the comment from Sarah, who indicated that plastic wrap
>> might be recyclable, I wonder how we could find out for sure. Here, we
>> can recycle hard plastics that are indicated with a #1q or #2 only.
>> Although there are platics up to #6 that "CAN" be recycyled, I've never
>> seen an American city that takes them, so there must be very little
>> market for them. To me, they're no different from anything else
>> disposable - if recycling is not available, then they aren't *truly*
>> recyclable.
>
> That's a fair point. My understanding is that most plastics 'can' be
> recycled, but the process requires accurate, precise and fast sorting
> into appropriate types. The local authority only takes 1 and 2, because
> that's the greatest bulk and most of us can be trusted to deal with
> something so simple. I avoid the problem by avoiding foil and cling film
> whenever possible; I wash and re-use plastic bags instead. His
> sandwiches are wrapped in greaseproof paper, though. I don't like the
> thought of trying to re-use a bag that's had food/remains of food
> sitting in it at room temperature for 12 or more hours!
>
> regards
> sarah
>
>
> --
> Think of it as evolution in action.


Hey that's a good idea. Good old fashioned greaseproof paper.

Everybody's almost forgotten about that.

I wonder how environmentally sound the greaseproofing process is though?

I'd assume they coat it in a very thin film of plastic nowadays.


Stephen

I prefer foil. It just works better. And so many other uses.

FOIL is our asset in the kitchen.

chas



<html><body bgcolor="red"


text="gold"></html>

"Stephen Stewart" > writes:
> Hey that's a good idea. Good old fashioned greaseproof paper.
>
> Everybody's almost forgotten about that.
>
> I wonder how environmentally sound the greaseproofing process is though?

And the paper-making, for that matter.

--
Richard W Kaszeta

http://www.kaszeta.org/rich

On 18 Jan 2006 18:54:15 -0800, Sheldon > wrote:
>
>WM wrote:
>>
>> Also, as the Wiki says, foil acts as a complete barrier to light
>
>
>I don't know about you but when I close the door my fridge light goes
>out.

How can you tell? You can only say for sure when you open the door and
then, of course, the door isn't closed any more.

Schroedinger's fridge.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

"PC Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Henry wrote:
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Geoff Winkless" ]> wrote
>>>
>>>> But you can't make an mind-controller-protecting hat from cling
>>>> film.
>>>
>>> How did you know about ... my hat ... dammit you read
>>> my mind, didn't you.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>>
>> Beware, use of tinfoil hats may be counter productive and enhance
>> government control!!
>>
>> http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
>>
>> It may be that only a full Faraday cage is effective! You have been
>> warned!
>
> The only safe way is to wrap yourself totally in foil. Leave no gaps at
> all. Airtight even*.
>
> The only safe way *for the rest of us*, anyway ;-)
>
Remember though: Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not
after you... ;-)

Henry