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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crying Child At a Romantic Dinner?

Was I wrong or did I miss something???

"The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.

I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
service.

While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
for me.

I am curious as too your comments.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Karen
 
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Is the Saddleback Inn a hotel? If so, travelers or guests are invited
to dine in any of their restaurants. I would think kids in a restaurant
in a hotel would not be a surprise.

It sounds like you were grouchy from the onset.

Karen

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Wayne Boatwright
 
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On Wed 06 Jul 2005 08:44:23a, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Was I wrong or did I miss something???


Having experienced similar circumstances before, and preferring not to dine
near disruptive children, I would simply have left and gone elsewhere. As
you said, the romance of the evening was already lost.

Since you did stay, and the food and service were good, you were wrong in
penalizing the waiter by not tipping.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


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  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheldon
 
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* wrote:
>
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> I am curious as too your comments.


"as too"

I don't believe your story, not a word... you are an obvious troll.


Sheldon

  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
gjgee
 
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<I was too upset to accept any
compensation offered>

What did they offer? Why would you not accept compensation?

<but still shocked that on my $86
tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
wine.>

Is the corkage fee posted on the menu or elsewhere? If so, they are
fully in line to charge you for that.

<I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
service.>

I feel this is wrong, VERY wrong. As A.C. noted, you only hurt the
waiter, whom you commended for good service. That makes no sense. You
get good service, you tip. How is this supposed to affect the owner?

Sounds like you were just trying to make an unfortunate situation worse
by being difficult. The owner has no control over his guests and if he
offered to move you to a different table, away from the crying child,
why didn't you just move and get on with your romantic dinner?

<While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
Lobster Tail>

What did your wife think?

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
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wrote:
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
> waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
> were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
> entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
> year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
> 10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
> waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
> The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
> family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
> of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
> child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
> we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
> compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
> tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
> wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
> owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
> romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>
> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> service.
>
> While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
> looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
> Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
> for me.
>
> I am curious as too your comments.


You handled it badly. It was time to call the manager over to tell him
you were leaving. Politely; he wasn't the one crying.

As for "compensation offered," it sounds like you were determined to be
annoyed. Restaurants are in the business of selling food and drink.
Doing all the service elements is included in the price. Bringing your
own food or drink in is rather rude.

Stiffing the competent server is too crass a gesture to discuss.
Essentially, you waved your arms to no avail like a child, and screwed a
working person.

Pastorio
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Margaret Suran
 
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wrote:
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
> waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
> were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
> entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
> year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
> 10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
> waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
> The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
> family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
> of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
> child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
> we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
> compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
> tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
> wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
> owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
> romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>
> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> service.
>
> While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
> looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
> Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
> for me.
>
> I am curious as too your comments.
>

You punished the waiter for your bad decision to wait for ten minutes,
before calling attention to your plight. That waiter was not even
your server at the first table, so what was he guilty of? Your
annoyance at a corkage fee and not questioning it? The decision of
the management not to deduct something from your bill or offer free
dessert?

I must have missed something in your post. You could not possibly
want to execute the messenger, or did you do just that? Commending
him to the chef, will not pay his rent or other expenses.
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Glitter Ninja
 
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"Bob (this one)" > writes:

>As for "compensation offered," it sounds like you were determined to be
>annoyed. Restaurants are in the business of selling food and drink.
>Doing all the service elements is included in the price. Bringing your
>own food or drink in is rather rude.


I thought bringing your own wine was acceptable? I wouldn't do it
myself -- if I want my own wine I serve it at home with my own dinner --
but I hear of a lot of people doing this and restaurants often charge
corking fees now, in response to this trend.
Still, a $10 fee compared to an $86 dinner seems high, but if it was
clearly listed on the menu or otherwise posted, it shouldn't have been a
surprise.

Stacia



  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
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notbob wrote:

> While I can sympathize with your frustration, you gotta admit it's a
> bit silly to expect a controlled environment in a public place.


Wait a sec.... a 4 star restaurant should be a controlled environment.
Screaming kids is what you have to tolerate when you go to family
restaurants and fast food joints where the low lifes cannot control their
brats.

I can understand the owner not wanting to talk to the parents. They are
the type of people who would bring their screaming brat into a nice
restaurant and probably never even consider what a pain in the ass their
little prince or princess is to people who do not appreciate. They
offered to move you to another section. You should have moved, or you
could have left and told the manager why. That would give him reason not
to admit rowdy children in the future.

> Next time you're looking for a romantic dinner, ask for some kinda
> assurance you'll get some peace and quiet ...that and slip the host a
> bigger tip.


I really hate the idea that you have to bribe a host or hostess to get
what should be expected of a 4 star restaurant. I feel badly for the
waiter who got stiffed for a tip, but then I have my own thing about
being expected to pay a substantially higher tip for service because the
food is so much more expensive. When you go to a nice place one of the
reasons for the food being more expensive is the ambience. That ambience
didn't do much for the OP because it was spoiled by the brat.



  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
rosie
 
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At the very least, you owe the waiter A good tip and an apology.

A romantic dinner could not really be ruined by a crying child. The
parents should have taken the child out, however, if you had a sense of
humor about the whole thing it would have been a lot better. Sometimes,
shit happens.

Rosie

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Aitken
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
> waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
> were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
> entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
> year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
> 10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
> waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
> The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
> family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
> of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
> child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
> we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
> compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
> tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
> wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
> owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
> romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>
> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> service.
>
> While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
> looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
> Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
> for me.
>
> I am curious as too your comments.


In a restaurant such as you describe, putting up with a noisy child is
completely unacceptable. It is rude and baboonish behavior on the part of
the parents as well as the owner. I do not think that non-stop crying is
acceptable anywhere, from McDonalds on up. You do expect more child noises
at "family" places but there are limits. It is astounding how some parents
are so completely selfish and ignore anyone and everyone around them. And of
course the bratty kids will turn out the same way. It's a good argument for
euthanasia.


--
Peter Aitken


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
aem
 
Posts: n/a
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Glitter Ninja wrote:
> I thought bringing your own wine was acceptable? I wouldn't do it
> myself -- if I want my own wine I serve it at home with my own dinner --
> but I hear of a lot of people doing this and restaurants often charge
> corking fees now, in response to this trend.
> Still, a $10 fee compared to an $86 dinner seems high, but if it was
> clearly listed on the menu or otherwise posted, it shouldn't have been a
> surprise.
>

There's nothing wrong or unusual about bringing your own wine. Good
restaurants charge a fee for the glassware and service. I've seen fees
from $5 to $25.

As to the crying child problem, we ask the waiter/host to ask the
guests to take the kid outside and quiet it down, but it never works.
It's the parents' fault, but the restaurant should make a polite effort
to do something as well. Stiffing the waiter is stupid. Once in a
noisy diner I saw a waitress bring a lollipop to the parent, saying
something like, 'maybe this will help calm the little guy down.'
That's the best response I've seen. -aem

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Aitken
 
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"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>>
>> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
>> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
>> waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
>> were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
>> entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
>> year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
>> 10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
>> waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
>> The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
>> family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
>> of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
>> child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
>> we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
>> compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
>> tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
>> wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
>> owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
>> romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>>
>> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
>> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
>> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
>> service.
>>
>> While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
>> looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
>> Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
>> for me. I am curious as too your comments.

>
> You handled it badly. It was time to call the manager over to tell him you
> were leaving. Politely; he wasn't the one crying.
>
> As for "compensation offered," it sounds like you were determined to be
> annoyed. Restaurants are in the business of selling food and drink. Doing
> all the service elements is included in the price. Bringing your own food
> or drink in is rather rude.
>


That's not true at all, and you should know better. Bringing your own wine
and paying a corkage fee is accepted practice at many restaurants all over
the world.


--
Peter Aitken


  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
notbob
 
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On 2005-07-06, Dave Smith > wrote:

> Wait a sec.... a 4 star restaurant should be a controlled environment.


Should be, but as made apparent by this situation, isn't. Even
sitting at home in the coziness of your own dining room is no assurance the
front landing gear of a crashed Navy jet won't come ripping through your
front door and tear your body in half as you sit supping on meat
loaf and mashed potatoes (true story). IOW, stuff happens.

> I really hate the idea that you have to bribe a host or hostess to get
> what should be expected of a 4 star restaurant.....


Again, you fail to acknowledge reality.

nb
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
notbob
 
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On 2005-07-06, aem > wrote:


> restaurants charge a fee for the glassware and service. I've seen fees
> from $5 to $25.


Some high end restaurants charge as much a $50.

nb
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
~patches~
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dave Smith wrote:

> notbob wrote:
>
>
>>While I can sympathize with your frustration, you gotta admit it's a
>>bit silly to expect a controlled environment in a public place.

>
>
> Wait a sec.... a 4 star restaurant should be a controlled environment.
> Screaming kids is what you have to tolerate when you go to family
> restaurants and fast food joints where the low lifes cannot control their
> brats.


As empty nesters with adult children, I agree. OTOH, the parents
couldn't control their child's crying anymore than the manager or owner.
The responsible thing for the parents to do would be to leave the
restaurant. A 4 star restaurant is not the place for a tired child that
just won't settle and the parents should have realized that.


IMO, I think the OP has a valid complaint but I don't think he handled
it properly.

>
> I can understand the owner not wanting to talk to the parents. They are
> the type of people who would bring their screaming brat into a nice
> restaurant and probably never even consider what a pain in the ass their
> little prince or princess is to people who do not appreciate. They
> offered to move you to another section. You should have moved, or you
> could have left and told the manager why. That would give him reason not
> to admit rowdy children in the future.
>
>
>>Next time you're looking for a romantic dinner, ask for some kinda
>>assurance you'll get some peace and quiet ...that and slip the host a
>>bigger tip.

>
>
> I really hate the idea that you have to bribe a host or hostess to get
> what should be expected of a 4 star restaurant. I feel badly for the
> waiter who got stiffed for a tip, but then I have my own thing about
> being expected to pay a substantially higher tip for service because the
> food is so much more expensive. When you go to a nice place one of the
> reasons for the food being more expensive is the ambience. That ambience
> didn't do much for the OP because it was spoiled by the brat.
>


At two years old, I hardly think the child was a spoiled brat. The
child was simply tired and had enough of life for that day.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if we're paying for a romatic dinner we
expect a certain level of ambience and that doesn't include children.
If we wanted to be around children we would go to a fast food joint.
So, I think the owner was wrong in this case. I also think the OP and
his wife could have quietly told the owner they no longer desired eating
there and went on their merry way to enjoy the evening without stiffing
someone who had given them good service.

Personally, had that happened to us, we would simply had told the owner
that if you can't give us the level of service we expect, we will take
our business elsewhere.
>
>



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> "A.C." > wrote in message
>> ... | |
>> wrote: | | | > I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due
>> to | > the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a | >
>> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their | > service. | > |
>> | i don't agree with this at all. you said the food and service
>> were great but you | didn't tip the waiter. i don't think it was
>> the waiters fault. those folks work | for tips so you basically
>> make him work for free due to something that was not | in his
>> control. you didn't hurt the manager at all. he still got his money
>> and | corkage fee. it was nice that you commended the waiter on
>> his service but | stiffing him was the wrong thing to do in my
>> opinion.
>>
>> I agree with you, AC. OP, you took out your frustration with the
>> unpleasant situation on the poor guy who gave you great service.
>> That, IMNSHO, sucks! Not only did you make him work for free, you
>> actually cost him money since he will pay income tax on the tip he
>> should have received based on the cost of your meal which, based on
>> your description, I suspect wasn't cheap.
>>

>
> Christ on crutches, this myth that waiters pay tax on tips they do
> not receive is put BS. It is something that is spread by people who
> are ignorant of the tax code and also by waiters who are trying to
> squeeze money in tips they do not deserve.


Sorry, Peter, It's true. Over the years, several of my servers had to
ante up more money on their taxes because the IRS said they'd
"misstated" what they should have claimed.

Pastorio
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>>>
>>>"The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
>>>romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
>>>waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
>>>were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
>>>entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
>>>year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
>>>10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
>>>waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
>>>The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
>>>family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
>>>of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
>>>child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
>>>we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
>>>compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
>>>tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
>>>wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
>>>owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
>>>romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>>>
>>>I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
>>>the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
>>>tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
>>>service.
>>>
>>>While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
>>>looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
>>>Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
>>>for me. I am curious as too your comments.

>>
>>You handled it badly. It was time to call the manager over to tell him you
>>were leaving. Politely; he wasn't the one crying.
>>
>>As for "compensation offered," it sounds like you were determined to be
>>annoyed. Restaurants are in the business of selling food and drink. Doing
>>all the service elements is included in the price. Bringing your own food
>>or drink in is rather rude.
>>

> That's not true at all, and you should know better.


<LOL> Right. What do I know about restaurant operations?

> Bringing your own wine
> and paying a corkage fee is accepted practice at many restaurants all over
> the world.


Note the word, "many." Not all, and not even most welcome the practice.
But also note the whining about corkage fee from the OP.

Pastorio
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Aitken
 
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"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>> "Gabby" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> "A.C." > wrote in message
>>> ... | |
>>> wrote: | | | > I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due
>>> to | > the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a | >
>>> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their | > service. | > | | i
>>> don't agree with this at all. you said the food and service
>>> were great but you | didn't tip the waiter. i don't think it was
>>> the waiters fault. those folks work | for tips so you basically
>>> make him work for free due to something that was not | in his
>>> control. you didn't hurt the manager at all. he still got his money
>>> and | corkage fee. it was nice that you commended the waiter on
>>> his service but | stiffing him was the wrong thing to do in my
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> I agree with you, AC. OP, you took out your frustration with the
>>> unpleasant situation on the poor guy who gave you great service.
>>> That, IMNSHO, sucks! Not only did you make him work for free, you
>>> actually cost him money since he will pay income tax on the tip he
>>> should have received based on the cost of your meal which, based on
>>> your description, I suspect wasn't cheap.
>>>

>>
>> Christ on crutches, this myth that waiters pay tax on tips they do
>> not receive is put BS. It is something that is spread by people who
>> are ignorant of the tax code and also by waiters who are trying to
>> squeeze money in tips they do not deserve.

>
> Sorry, Peter, It's true. Over the years, several of my servers had to
> ante up more money on their taxes because the IRS said they'd
> "misstated" what they should have claimed.
>
> Pastorio


You need to read the IRS regulations as I have. It is very clear that
servers can keep track of and report actual tips and pay taxes only on that.
If they do not keep track then the IRS may apply an estimation formula.


--
Peter Aitken


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Glitter Ninja
 
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"Peter Aitken" > writes:

>Christ on crutches, this myth that waiters pay tax on tips they do not
>receive is put BS. It is something that is spread by people who are ignorant
>of the tax code and also by waiters who are trying to squeeze money in tips
>they do not deserve.


When I was a waitress, we reported tips on a spreadsheet that was
provided to the IRS. Taxes were based on what we reported, although
those who under-reported were often caught and audited. The IRS took
the amount of sales, divided by some percentage to estimate tips, and if
you were nowhere near the estimated amount, you got caught.
But the estimate was low. Very low, so low I could report $0 in tips
when it happened and no one blinked an eye. (It was a Pizza Hut, so no
tips was a common occurrence.) No one was charged taxes for income they
did not receive.

Stacia

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA.


<snip>

> I am curious as too your comments.


We stayed there (saddleback) for an anniversary a few years ago. I think the
Lucky Lindy Room over the lobby. Yep is a pretty good place.

I know you were looking for a "special evening" but the reality is it's summer
and the tourists in Bermuda shorts with black socks and wing tips are in full
season. Unless you want to pay a lot more you're just going to have to put up
with families and kids - especially in the village. There just ain't that many
places to go up there. Was there something special to your bottle of wine?
Bring your own booze to a 4 or 5 star place "deserves" a corkage charge - not
only is it reasonable it should have been expected.

IIRC we were there at World Series Time and the people were more than
accommodating - leaving the kitchen open later that expected because of the
game. I was torn between keeping my reservation and finishing the game upstairs
in our room.

It is really a great old place with terrific food. Our kids had them place a
goodie basket in our room with snacks and a bottle of Champaign by the time
dinner came around we were feeling no pain.

Dimitri




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
rmg
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> service.



That's a crock of crap to penalize the waitstaff for something the owner
did.
You sound like you're just looking for an excuse.


  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
rmg
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> * wrote:
> >
> > Was I wrong or did I miss something???
> >
> > I am curious as too your comments.

>
> "as too"
>
> I don't believe your story, not a word... you are an obvious troll.
>
>
> Sheldon
>


On second thought, I think you are right about this.


  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> "A.C." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> >> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> >> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> >> service.
> >>

> >
> > i don't agree with this at all. you said the food and service were great
> > but you
> > didn't tip the waiter. i don't think it was the waiters fault. those folks
> > work
> > for tips so you basically make him work for free due to something that was
> > not
> > in his control. you didn't hurt the manager at all. he still got his money
> > and
> > corkage fee. it was nice that you commended the waiter on his service but
> > stiffing him was the wrong thing to do in my opinion.
> >
> >

>
> There is some validity to what you say but what other option did the
> customer have? Perhaps an angry employee will help the manager change his
> ways. The waiter is responsible for certain things that may not be within
> his control. For example if there is a really long wait to get your food it
> may be the kitchen's fault but it is still the waiter's responsibility and
> can validly be reflected in the tip.
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken


OP was totally in the wrong; Peter, a waiter wanting to keep a job that
likely is highly sought-after in the food service world because of its
reputation and its prices (indicating generous tips) has no business,
approaching, and should not do so, a manager or in this case, owner,
because the waiter is "angry" about not getting a tip due to the
owner's inaction. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The OP should have left a generous tip and on the way out, spoken
quietly with the owner explaining why the customer felt his meal was
unsatisfactory along with the simple "rule of 250." Everyone knows 250
people and can relate a tale of an unsatisfactory meal situation to
those 250, who in turn each know 250 others, etc., etc., which MAY
affect the restaurant's business and reputation in the future.

N.

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Aitken
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>> "A.C." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
>> >> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
>> >> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
>> >> service.
>> >>
>> >
>> > i don't agree with this at all. you said the food and service were
>> > great
>> > but you
>> > didn't tip the waiter. i don't think it was the waiters fault. those
>> > folks
>> > work
>> > for tips so you basically make him work for free due to something that
>> > was
>> > not
>> > in his control. you didn't hurt the manager at all. he still got his
>> > money
>> > and
>> > corkage fee. it was nice that you commended the waiter on his service
>> > but
>> > stiffing him was the wrong thing to do in my opinion.
>> >
>> >

>>
>> There is some validity to what you say but what other option did the
>> customer have? Perhaps an angry employee will help the manager change his
>> ways. The waiter is responsible for certain things that may not be within
>> his control. For example if there is a really long wait to get your food
>> it
>> may be the kitchen's fault but it is still the waiter's responsibility
>> and
>> can validly be reflected in the tip.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Aitken

>
> OP was totally in the wrong; Peter, a waiter wanting to keep a job that
> likely is highly sought-after in the food service world because of its
> reputation and its prices (indicating generous tips) has no business,
> approaching, and should not do so, a manager or in this case, owner,
> because the waiter is "angry" about not getting a tip due to the
> owner's inaction. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
>


I find your position bizarre. You seem to be saying that an employee cannot
and should not complain to their boss. Do you really believe that?


--
Peter Aitken


  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

notbob wrote:

> Should be, but as made apparent by this situation, isn't. Even
> sitting at home in the coziness of your own dining room is no assurance the
> front landing gear of a crashed Navy jet won't come ripping through your
> front door and tear your body in half as you sit supping on meat
> loaf and mashed potatoes (true story). IOW, stuff happens.
>
> > I really hate the idea that you have to bribe a host or hostess to get
> > what should be expected of a 4 star restaurant.....

>
> Again, you fail to acknowledge reality.


Naw. I just refuse to buy into it.




  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 6 Jul 2005 08:58:52 -0700, Karen wrote:

> Is the Saddleback Inn a hotel? If so, travelers or guests are invited
> to dine in any of their restaurants. I would think kids in a restaurant
> in a hotel would not be a surprise.
>
> It sounds like you were grouchy from the onset.
>

Good reply and I agree with you!


  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
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"Karen" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Is the Saddleback Inn a hotel?


You decide:

http://www.saddlebackinn.com/

Dimitri


  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:34:07 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> If the OP had gone to some dump like Applebee's or Chuck E Cheeze or
> Kalifornia Pizza Kitchen they'd have no place complaining. From what I've
> read this place is considered upscale and "romantic" So their concerns are
> quite valid.


Oh, puleeze - it's a hotel.

I hope those parents were just as distressed by the baby crying and
have learned their lesson. Maybe they will take their evening meal as
room service from now on. I'd prefer that to sitting in a restaurant
with a crying child.

In fact, the OP should consider room service too.
  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
sarah bennett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
> Was I wrong or did I miss something???
>
> "The Nest" is a 4 star restaurant nestled in the
> romantic Saddleback Inn, Lake Arrowhead, CA. After
> waiting 20 minutes past our scheduled reservation, we
> were seated at a quiet booth that was available the
> entire time. Soon (8:15pm)a family of 4 with a tired 2
> year old crying to go home was seated behind us. After
> 10 minutes of non-stop crying, we spoke with a
> waitress about the disturbance caused by the child.
> The ownercame by our table and refused to speak to the
> family and told us we could be moved to a louder part
> of the restaurant if we didn't like the noise from the
> child. Since the romance for the evening was ruined,
> we decided to move. I was too upset to accept any
> compensation offered, but still shocked that on my $86
> tab they charged me a $10 corkage fee on my bottle of
> wine. The food and service is worthy of 5 stars, but
> owner is a horrible manager and will sacrifice your
> romantic evening at the expense of a crying child.
>
> I left a note on the receipt to the waiter that due to
> the actions of the owner he would not be receiving a
> tip. I also commended him and the chef on their
> service.
>
> While I think I should have walked out, my wife was
> looking forward too much to her Duck breast with a
> Lobster Tail. By that point McDonalds was good enough
> for me.
>
> I am curious as too your comments.
>


well, for one, commendation doesn't pay the bills. While I agree that
small children should not be taken to nice restaurants, The likelihood
of the obnoxious parents and their offspring to make a big stink about
being asked to move was probably what caused the owner to ask you to
move, since you were the ones who complained.
What this has to do with the corkage fee, i have no clue. I thought that
was standard operating procedure for restaurants when a customer brings
their own wine to enjoy with dinner. what i find even more surprising is
that neither duck breast or lobster is on their menu, which is made
available online.



--

saerah

"It's not a gimmick, it's an incentive."- asterbark, afca

aware of the manifold possibilities of the future

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß
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