"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry, nb, I apologize. However, I am getting sick of everyone
> > pontificating about the "truth" they "know"! Unless you have first hand
> > knowledge, then you simply don't know.
>
> The only truth I know is that he is a man in his 40s who has sleepovers
with
> young boys. That tells me all I need to know. Whether or not he touched
> them inappropriately, fed them booze, showed them porn etc. as the new
items
> reported, he is pretty sick just to have those sleepovers.

1) As I understood, Jackson didn't have ordinary healthy kids staying at
Neverland - just those with serious illness or serious problems and the
like, who passed the ranch's screenings. It wasn't like he had a bunch of
kids over for a sleepover.
I understood that that ranch was set up kind of like the "make-a-wish"
group, except it handled kids that didn't meet all of the make-a-wish
criterion. It was Jackson's charity, funded by his money as well as
donations from star friends.

So weren't those stays only for children who were quite ill or having
deep problems, as part of their therapy/care?

2) I thought the idea behind the ranch, as dangerous for Jackson as it was
(given Fox and its ilk and their pandering to the dark side and making
their money by claiming anything good was dirty, and them having a famous
target around kids who had problems meant he National Fox Enquirer would
attack), was that the kids who were invited to the ranch were the ones who,
because of a variety of problems had missed out on much of their childhood,
and the kids had problems because of missing playing.
I understood that the idea was that at the ranch they got to have some
of thir play time back as part of therapy, and they got to meet and be with
real "stars" - and they could be with a superstar for a few minutes in their
troubles and they could act like kids without repercusions, thus boosting
their self-esteem and bringing them out of their shells. Thus the reason
Leno and Caulkin, et al, visited there regularly and played.
And the list of kids who were helped by the ranch and this approach was
apparently fairly large.

So it seems it would be kind of hard to have a charity set up on the idea
that approachability to a pop star will help the kid more than any other
therapy, and then set up doors and walls to deny the kid acess to the pop
star, as some say normal people would have done.

That's what I heard about the ranch and Jackson's part in it.

BTW, I also understood he was running his businesses and record labels and
overseas concerts and rehearsing, etc., while also going to the ranch. It
wasn 't like he retired and played with kids at the ranch 24/7.

>
> I also consider the parents to be equally culpable for letting their sons
> sleep over with a guy who shares his bed with prepubescent boys, a guy who
> has a high feminine voice and who has had enough cosmetic surgery to make
> himself look like an extraterrestrial. I wouldn't let my kids sleep in
the
> same bed with any adult, never mind one who is obviously a freak.
>
>
> > I'll be the first to admit that Michael Jackson is one of the strangest
> > people ever known to the public. However, that provides no proof of the
> > acts he was allegedly accused of. If there was clear and irrefutable
> > evidence of this, he would have been convicted.
>
> It obviously was not a clear cut case, or else the jury would have been
out
> in an hour or two instead of needed more than 30 hours of deliberation.
>
>

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
> itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited education at
> best.

Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship to Max,
my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled. His parents being
military, they decided that home schooling was the only way to ensure that
their two kids received a consistent education. He started university at
the age of 14, taking entry level courses at the local college on a half
time basis and working part time. In September he's off to University for
full-time study.

He's a well-socialized, well-travelled young man.

Gabby

Ranee Mueller > wrote:

> Wow. Someone e-mailed me to tell me that there is no such thing as
>homeschooling and that failing to put my kids in preschool was the same
>as child abuse. Even if I agreed with the first premise, which I don't,
>I just don't think I am up to doing all of the kids' schooling, I cannot
>fathom how missing out on sandboxes and fingerpaints with loads of
>children instead of with a few children is somehow child abuse.

Ignore the idiot. You're doing the right thing, and more power to
you. Several of our extended family members have homeschooled their
kids (one of them has HS'ed 6 of them) all the way through the high
school level and without one exception, they have all gone on to the
college of their choice with high grades, high SAT scores and are
doing just as well in college. And no, they aren't mal-adjusted
antisocial freaks, as some of the classes are taken at schools as is
physical ed and they were mostly allowed access to extracuricular
activities by the school. (The school could hardly deny them this, as
they DO still pay taxes to support the school, and I suppose the
school gets state money every time one of them steps onto the campus).
BTW, sending your kids to most public schools is a LOT closer to child
abuse than what you're doing. I will admit, it takes an exceptional
parent to do what these folks did all the way through high school -
and, frankly, they ARE exceptional parents. Wonder why the talent
skipped over me <G>?

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

"MarjorieB" > wrote:

>
>Absolutely beautifully said. Every word.

You obviously don't have kids in public school now. True?

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

Damsel > wrote:

>I've gripped plenty, young man.

I've been meaning to discuss this trollop attitude of yours with you
<G>

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

wrote in
oups.com:

> I totally agree and have from the beginning. He is also guilty of
> being really, really strange.

But that's not a crime in the US.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/nationa...res050608.html

I especially like the part where the customs officer says:

"Being bizarre is not a reason to keep somebody out of this country or
lock them up," said Anthony, adding Despres had not violated any
regulations.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:18:26 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:20:35 GMT, Tara > wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>My older brother and I both attended an extremely rural and, sad to
>>say, subpar K-12 school. I moved away and graduated from high school
>>in a different state. My brother stayed and graduated from the rural
>>school. He is a successful civil engineer with a master's degree. My
>>bachelor's degree is in finance and my master's degree is in
>>elementary education. If you are motivated and interested, you will
>>learn.
>
><clap! clap!> Absolutely. The dear aulde dad, God rest him, grew up
>during the Depression to a mother with a 3rd grade education in
>backwoods Alabama. His father died when he was 13 (car accident) and
>the only schooling he had was backwoods Alabama schools,

The school I mentioned was also a backwoods Alabama school! What is
it about backwoods Alabama? The schools aren't great, but the people
are golden.

Tara

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:39:12 -0300, Gabby wrote:
>
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
> > itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited education at
> > best.
>
> Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship to Max,
> my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled. His parents being
> military, they decided that home schooling was the only way to ensure that
> their two kids received a consistent education. He started university at
> the age of 14, taking entry level courses at the local college on a half
> time basis and working part time. In September he's off to University for
> full-time study.
>
> He's a well-socialized, well-travelled young man.
>
Your acquaintance is lucky he had parents who were educated enough to
provide a rich home school experience for him. His was a case where
home schooling provided something that would have been missing
otherwise: consistency. Military families move around so much that
there are often large gaps in a child's education - not because they
weren't in school, but because the different districts taught on
different schedules.

"sf" > wrote in message
...

> Your acquaintance is lucky he had parents who were educated enough to
> provide a rich home school experience for him.

The local community college authorities congratulated his mom for her work
with him when he enrolled there last year for his first year of university.

Gabby

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:39:12 -0300, Gabby wrote:
>>
>> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
>> > itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited
>> education at > best.
>>
>> Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship
>> to Max, my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled. His
>> parents being military, they decided that home schooling was the
>> only way to ensure that their two kids received a consistent
>> education. He started university at the age of 14, taking entry
>> level courses at the local college on a half time basis and working
>> part time. In September he's off to University for full-time study.
>>
>> He's a well-socialized, well-travelled young man.
>>
> Your acquaintance is lucky he had parents who were educated enough to
> provide a rich home school experience for him. His was a case where
> home schooling provided something that would have been missing
> otherwise: consistency. Military families move around so much that
> there are often large gaps in a child's education - not because they
> weren't in school, but because the different districts taught on
> different schedules.

I can attest to that military thing. I never ever attended a geography
class (despite having lived all over). Every time I started a new school
the curriculum was either before or past my grade level according to the
local public school administration. I don't know how to diagram a sentence
(like any employer has ever asked me to) but I *do* believe I speak and
write fairly well. My "English" classes seemed to be more geared towards
literature because the first half of the school year was grammar and the
last half was literature and I always seemed to enter a new school the
second half of the year which was awkward, to say the least.

Back to the topic of home-schooling, my parents couldn't have done it but I
applaud anyone who can. But pre-school? There was no such thing when I was
that age. You went to Kindergarten a half a day. Basic ABC's, 123's.
Learning to work and play well with others. Milk and cookies and taking
naps and then you caught the bus and went home. What's the big deal about
Pre-School? Times sure have changed.

Jill

Dimitri wrote:
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, "Dimitri"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I think the school boards should be held criminally responsible for
>>> FRAUD!
>>>
>>> They're taking tax dollars and "graduating illiterate people"
>>> That's taking money under false pretenses.
>>
>>
>> They are providing an educational environment. There's a saying,
>> "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".
>> There are some
>> pretty well-educated students coming out of public schools. What's
>> the difference between those kids and the kids who are illiterate?
>> I'll give you a hint, it isn't the teachers!
>>
> Have you really looked at a Mickey Dee's or Denny's Menu? They're
> PICTOGRAPHS!
>
I won't say it's the teachers, but the overall environment in a classroom
these days. I grew up attending public schools and must say I did quite
well. But that was 25 years ago. I have no idea what it's like now.

As far as the pictographs, mention running a cash register in one of those
places. They feature pictures of the said menu item chosen and are touch
screens. Special orders sometimes throw them off because someone doesn't
want the "combo" as it is, but wants to make a substitution. And this also
harks back to supermarkets where the check-out person says "what's this?"
when you buy some sort of produce on the counter. You would think at the
very least, if a grocery store is going to employ a person they'd give a
basic education in "what is this fruit what is this vegetable". Forget
about counting back change... LOL I actually THANK people who know how to
count change back to me at a store and they always look surprised!

Jill

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:18:55 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> I can attest to that military thing.

So can I. We left Germany when I was halfway through 2nd grade (I was *so*
terrified of the moment the teacher would call me to the front of the class
and kiss me on my cheek goodbye!) and all of us kids were left with an aunt
in Pennsylvania while my parents came down here to Maryland to find a
house.

During math my first day of school they were carrying numbers and I didn't
know what the fcsk they were talking about. I ended up hating math for the
rest of my life over the trouble I had trying to get the teacher to
understand I'd never been taught it, not that I didn't understand it. She
kept telling me to try the problems first and I didn't know where to begin.

I was, however, further advanced in reading then my new public school. We
had to read aloud during my first day while sitting in a circle and all of
the kids started laughing when it was my turn. Very embarrassing as I was
certain I hadn't missed any words. Later that day, during lunch, I
overheard another kid telling a teacher about the new kid in class who
could read "a thousand miles an hour!" Made my day.

--

-Jeff B. (who would choose DoDDS over public school any day)
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

Gabby wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote:
> > And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
> > itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited education at
> > best.
>
> Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship to Max,
> my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled.

Funny (odd, not ha ha) how you fail to mention *which* University and a
scholarship for *what*... evasive, aren't we... usually the case with
someone hoping to make a sow's ear into a silk purse.

I had lots of HS classmates who did so poorly in their academic
studies they barely graduated but still were granted great scholarships
at Universities in Geogia, Florida, and other low academic level entry
institutions, for football, basketball, track, etc.... they weren't
smart, but being strong like forklift and/or being poor like dirt
carried a lot of weight, especially these days, but even then.

Sheldon

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

<snip>


Forget
> about counting back change... LOL I actually THANK people who know how to
> count change back to me at a store and they always look surprised!
>
> Jill



Want to have fun - after they hit the amount tendered on the cash register pull
out the pennies or exact amount of the change less that a dollar and watch the
"PANIC"

;-)

I really can be a snot sometimes (OK most of the time)

Dimitri

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:18:55 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> Back to the topic of home-schooling, my parents couldn't have done it but I
> applaud anyone who can. But pre-school? There was no such thing when I was
> that age. You went to Kindergarten a half a day. Basic ABC's, 123's.
> Learning to work and play well with others. Milk and cookies and taking
> naps and then you caught the bus and went home. What's the big deal about
> Pre-School? Times sure have changed.


The problem is that kindergarten not only a full day, the curriculum
is basically what you and I learned in first grade - so preK is
absolutely required in most cases.
Prereading skills: http://www.childliteracy.com/pre_reading.html
Premath: http://www.childtime.com/program/2propres.htm

Head Start was supposed to close the gap between the Haves and the
Have Nots, but now parents who make somewhat more are feeling the
pinch (preK is VERY expensive), so we are rolling out Preschool For
All this year.
http://www.ccfc.ca.gov/SchoolReady.htm
http://www.preschoolforall.org/

(AlleyGator) said:

>Damsel > wrote:
>
>>I've gripped plenty, young man.
>
>I've been meaning to discuss this trollop attitude of yours with you
><G>

I just did some googling, and found the first reference to the trollops in
this group. June 8, 1998, by Sara, in the late moosmeat's "About marriage
licenses" thread. It's all about livin' in sin!

Carol

--
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States:
http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International:
http://www.thehungersite.com/

"Damsel" > wrote in message
...
> (AlleyGator) said:
>
>>Damsel > wrote:
>>
>>>I've gripped plenty, young man.
>>
>>I've been meaning to discuss this trollop attitude of yours with you
>><G>
>
> I just did some googling, and found the first reference to the
> trollops in
> this group. June 8, 1998, by Sara, in the late moosmeat's "About
> marriage
> licenses" thread. It's all about livin' in sin!

In that case I am a happy trollop too) hehehehehe good eh?

In article > , "Dimitri"
> wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dimitri"
> > > wrote:

> >> My responsibility and I would not abdicate that responsibility to
some state
> >> idiots.

> > There are a lot of state idiots in California. None of them actually do
> > any educating. Education is strictly under local control, although the

> Local control my ass:
>
> LA unified spends over 9 BILLION DOLLARS OF TAX MONEY A YEAR and it ain't
> enough.


I think you made my point for me. You said "state", I said local. LA
Unified is in fact at a lower governmental level than the "state".
However, LA Unified is so obscenely huge that it is unique in California.
It is not at *all* representative of local control of education.

In my small county (Sonoma, in Northern California) we have forty school
districts. There is always talk of consolidation. In fact, there has
been considerable consolidation, and I think it was a good thing. I'm not
sure that I see the benefit of further consolidation. My wife is on a
school board, and her district has been the target of consolidation more
than once. She's not hostile towards the idea, but has some questions.
Exactly how is it going to help, and who is going to do the work?

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Back to the topic of home-schooling, my parents couldn't have done it but
> I
> applaud anyone who can. But pre-school? There was no such thing when I
> was
> that age. You went to Kindergarten a half a day. Basic ABC's, 123's.
> Learning to work and play well with others. Milk and cookies and taking
> naps and then you caught the bus and went home. What's the big deal about
> Pre-School? Times sure have changed.

Heck, the province I grew up in had no kindergarten until about 18 years
ago -- needless to say long past my school days. When I started school I
was expected to know my colours, but that was about it. My parents had been
told not to teach me anything because then I'd be bored in school.

Before she entered kindergarten my oldest child was expected to know little
but had been taught the alphabet, and to count to 10. She'd asked to learn
to print so could do that a little.

Before my youngest (5 years younger) entered kindergarten he was expected to
know the alphabet, count to 20 & write his name.

Give it a few more years and they'll expect preschoolers to program
computers.

Gabby

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> Gabby wrote:
>> "Sheldon" > wrote:
>> > And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
>> > itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited education at
>> > best.
>>
>> Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship to
>> Max,
>> my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled.
>
> Funny (odd, not ha ha) how you fail to mention *which* University and a
> scholarship for *what*... evasive, aren't we... usually the case with
> someone hoping to make a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Well it definitely isn't for sports since he doesn't play any. University
of New Brunswick is known for its Engineering program, Forestry program &
Law School.

Gabby

"AlleyGator" > wrote in message
...
> "MarjorieB" > wrote:
>
>>
>>Absolutely beautifully said. Every word.
>
> You obviously don't have kids in public school now. True?

Not that it's any concern of yours, but I do not. Both of my daughters are
in private ( non-parochial ) school, have travelled all across the US on
extensive motorhome trips, and have been to Europe twice.

Though I don't believe public schools are the greatest, they're certainly
better than no school at all, which is what "The Homeschooled" are getting.
And though I have a college degree, it isn't in elementary education, so I
am therefore no more capable of educating my children than is a bored
housewife, which is what "The Homeschooling" are.

MarjorieB wrote:

> Though I don't believe public schools are the greatest, they're certainly
> better than no school at all, which is what "The Homeschooled" are getting.
> And though I have a college degree, it isn't in elementary education, so I
> am therefore no more capable of educating my children than is a bored
> housewife, which is what "The Homeschooling" are.

From what I have seen of home schooling, most of the parents seem to have an
agenda. Personally, I prefer that kids have some social interaction with their
peers.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I had lots of HS classmates who did so poorly in their academic
> studies they barely graduated but still were granted great scholarships
> at Universities in Geogia, Florida, and other low academic level entry
> institutions, for football, basketball, track, etc.... they weren't
> smart, but being strong like forklift and/or being poor like dirt
> carried a lot of weight, especially these days, but even then.

But in Canada that is unlikely to happen.

http://www.campusstarter.com/article.cfm?ArtId=4712

Gabby

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:57 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, Curly Sue wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:22:53 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:
>
>>I wasn't a juror who was presented with all the evidence and testimony
>>available and neither were you, but I've thought all along that
>>Jackson isn't guilty as this prosecutor has presented the charges.
>>From what I can infer, he is likely asexual and so disconnected with
>>reality, so unable to exercise good judgment that he really thinks he
>>can be playmates with these kids. The bit where he said - and proudly
>>- in a national interview that he slept platonically with the boys
>>was more or less a "tell," as they say in gambling, for me. He
>>actually sees no problem with an adult male sleeping with juvenile
>>males b/c he's just "one of the boys" himself with no sexual agenda.
>>And he *has* no sexual agenda b/c he is asexual, IMHO.
>
>But there's the pornography...

Yes. There's that. Legal, heterosexual pornography with no children in it.
No homosexuality. So maybe he's not asexual, but he certainly doesn't
appear to be interested in homosexual porn.

Given that to convict a juror has to accept the prosecution's evidence
beyond a reasonable doubt -- pretty hard to do in this case, the acquittal
sounds very very justified.

The guy is weird, very very childish probably, very different from a
normal person - obviously. And he put himself in a position where such
claims were inevitable. But you can't convict someone for that.

Doug
--
Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply
Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:27:08 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, Gene wrote:

>He's GUILTY...he just got away with it.....
>
Sure, toss out American justice, let's get rid of it and have votes on
whether people or guilty.

That's what you're saying.

Unless of course you have proof no one knows about.

Doug
--
Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply
Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

"Ophelia" > said:

>"Damsel" > wrote in message
.. .
>> (AlleyGator) said:
>>
>>>I've been meaning to discuss this trollop attitude of yours with you
>>><G>
>>
>> I just did some googling, and found the first reference to the
>> trollops in this group. June 8, 1998, by Sara, in the late moosmeat's
>> "About marriage licenses" thread. It's all about livin' in sin!
>
>In that case I am a happy trollop too) hehehehehe good eh?

Atta girl, Ophelia!

Carol

--
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States:
http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International:
http://www.thehungersite.com/

> >
> >But there's the pornography...
>
> Yes. There's that. Legal, heterosexual pornography with no children in it.
> No homosexuality. So maybe he's not asexual, but he certainly doesn't
> appear to be interested in homosexual porn.
>

Really? What about the porn that was so bad that they weren't allowed to
view it in the courtroom? It involved nude teen and pre-teen boys in various
sexual poses. Those were sent to the jury room so that they could peruse
them in private.
H

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:34:18 GMT, Tara > wrote:

>The school I mentioned was also a backwoods Alabama school! What is
>it about backwoods Alabama? The schools aren't great, but the people
>are golden.

Uh, anywhere near Double Springs?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

Gabby wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote:
> > And no one can convince me that home schooling in of
> > itself can provide more than a mediocre and very limited education at
> > best.
>
> Tell that to the university that has just awarded a big scholarship to
Max,
> my 15 year old acquaintance who was home schooled. His parents being
> military, they decided that home schooling was the only way to ensure that
> their two kids received a consistent education. He started university at
> the age of 14, taking entry level courses at the local college on a half
> time basis and working part time. In September he's off to University for
> full-time study.

Ummmm, yes. Let's talk about universities that admit fourteen- and
fifteen-year olds. Clearly, they need to audit a class or two on the
adolescent stage of development.


> He's a well-socialized, well-travelled young man.

Time will tell, but the baby geniuses I've seen have either matured into
snobbish, insecure, socially inhibited overachievers or entitlement-driven
underachievers. Go figure.

"Hairy" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > >But there's the pornography...
> >
> > Yes. There's that. Legal, heterosexual pornography with no children in
it.
> > No homosexuality. So maybe he's not asexual, but he certainly doesn't
> > appear to be interested in homosexual porn.
> >
>
> Really? What about the porn that was so bad that they weren't allowed to
> view it in the courtroom? It involved nude teen and pre-teen boys in
various
> sexual poses. Those were sent to the jury room so that they could peruse
> them in private.
> H
>

BS "urban myth", or was that from the third stall down?

If he really had had pictures of "teen and preteen boys in sexual poses",
they would have brought charges for possession of child porn - and since
that stuff is clearly and without a doubt child porn and not legal porn,
those charges would have stuck.
But there were no such pics.


>

"MarjorieB" > wrote:
>Not that it's any concern of yours, but I do not. Both of my daughters are
>in private ( non-parochial ) school, have travelled all across the US on
>extensive motorhome trips, and have been to Europe twice.

You obviously provided opportunities for your kids that many aren't
able, or perhaps willing to provide - well done.

>Though I don't believe public schools are the greatest, they're certainly
>better than no school at all, which is what "The Homeschooled" are getting.
>And though I have a college degree, it isn't in elementary education, so I
>am therefore no more capable of educating my children than is a bored
>housewife, which is what "The Homeschooling" are.

This used to be somewhat true, but there are so many resources
available to assist parents in this endeavor that it isn't necessarily
so anymore. How do you explain away the homeschooling results in my
extended family that I posted in this thread? All top-notch students,
one now in medical school, several have moved on to graduate degrees.
And, like I said, some courses required work at the school,
particularly the sciences where lab work was required, physical
education and so on. We never even considered homeschooling - I'm not
saying it's for everyone, I'm just continually amazed at the end
result.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

In article >, "jmcquown"
> wrote:

> basic education in "what is this fruit what is this vegetable".
> Forget about counting back change... LOL I actually THANK people who
> know how to count change back to me at a store and they always look
> surprised!
> Jill

I was stunned when I saw the register screen that's visible to the
cashier but not the customer. It depicts a cash drawer with the
denominations shown in each section -- and the number of units from each
section required to make the correct change. "Two from this
compartment, one from this one, four from that one. . . ." Jeez.


OB Food:
* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Bread Salad

Recipe By : Samantha Demidavicius, 6-2001
Serving Size : 4 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Salads

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 tablespoons white wine vinegar
juice of one lemon
1 teaspoon Dijon mustard
2 cloves garlic, minced
2/3 cup extra virgin olive oil
salt & freshly ground pepper

4 cups day-old Italian/country bread, in 1" cubes
2 cups grape tomatoes
1 small red onion, sliced thin
3 tablespoons minced parsley
1/2 cup kalamata olives, pitted & sliced
1 tablespoon capers, rinsed and drained
6 leaves fresh basil, finger-torn

Make the dressing by combining the vinegar, mustard, lemon juice and
garlic in a bowl. Whisk in the olive oil. Add salt and pepper.

Put the bread cubes in a large mixing bowl and pour the dressing over
them. Toss to coat evenly. Let sit for 30 minutes or so.

To serve, add the tomatoes, onion, olives, parsley, capers and basil to
the bread cubes. Toss and serve.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTES : Samantha Demidavicius made this at the Calgary 2001 Cook-in in
their home. It was awesome! It is adapted from Charlotte Blackmer's
recipe. I brought it to the Twin Cities Winter Cook-in at Louis &
Jennie Gordon's 2/16/03.

_____
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
(It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)

In article >,
wrote:
> During my pre-school years (which Ranee is discussing), I wasn't formally
> home schooled, but my parents taught me grammar, manners, etc., and I had
> lots of social interaction with other kids.

> Carol

Dams, for some reason your post made me recall a conversation with a
relative. She'd had two kids with two different men, not married to
either. I asked why she was sending her kids to a religious school
--she wasn't of the faith. She said she wanted them to learn morals and
they don't teach that in the public schools. Later, son Chris says to
me, "Mom, I thought you were supposed to learn morals at home."

OB Food:
This is from: http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1748,...225204,00.html
MOREL MUSHROOM SOUP

4 c. morels, fresh
1 med. onion, chopped
2 stalks celery, chopped
2 c. asparagus, cooked
4 c. milk
4 tbsp. whole wheat flour
Salt & pepper to taste

Saute morels, onion and celery in a small amount of oil until barely
tender. Stir in flour gradually, add milk, salt and pepper. Add cooked
asparagus. Simmer until slightly thickened.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
(It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Sheldon" > wrote:
>
> > Damsel wrote:
> > > Ranee Mueller > said:
> > >
> > > > Wow. Someone e-mailed me to tell me that there is no such thing as
> > > >homeschooling and that failing to put my kids in preschool was the same
> > > >as child abuse. Even if I agreed with the first premise, which I don't,
> > > >I just don't think I am up to doing all of the kids' schooling, I cannot
> > > >fathom how missing out on sandboxes and fingerpaints with loads of
> > > >children instead of with a few children is somehow child abuse.
> > >
> > > Some people are just plain nuts. Anyone who has read your posts over time
> > > knows that you are a *very* intelligent woman, and well capable of home
> > > schooling your children.
> > >
> > > I'm far too scatter-brained to attempt what you're doing. You have my
> > > admiration and respect.
> > >
> > > Your detractor is an idiot.
> >
> > That's a sad comment, were you home schooled? Then you haven't a clue.
> > Home schooling is an antiquated concept held by some obstinate
> > agenda-driven simple minded who'd wish to return to the simpler times
> > when there was nothing else... home schooling is a last resort, like
> > canned chow mein and frozen pizza, immediate satisfaction but without
> > depth or breadth. Home schooling is in modern times a devise of those
> > who would shield their children from the real world... they are the
> > idiots, the FEARFUL IDIOTS... scared to death that their children will
> > discover how ignorant their parents truly are. A good parent wants
> > their chidren to exceed them, not hold their children back.
> >
> > Sheldon
> >
>
> All the more reason to home school....... ;-)
>
> TOO many kids are being graduated that still cannot read or compose a
> decent sentence with a high school diploma. And still don't understand
> how to work fractions.

So who loined you proper sentence construction, they failed, most
miserably.

Sheldon

In article >, "jmcquown"
> wrote:
>
> Back to the topic of home-schooling, my parents couldn't have done it
> but I applaud anyone who can. But pre-school? There was no such
> thing when I was that age. You went to Kindergarten a half a day.
> Basic ABC's, 123's. Learning to work and play well with others. Milk
> and cookies and taking naps and then you caught the bus and went
> home. What's the big deal about Pre-School? Times sure have
> changed.
> Jill

They surely have. Kids around here now need to know much of that
-before- they get to kindergarten. My kids went to "nursery school" the
year before kindergarten and the emphasis was on less academic things --
sharing, taking turns, orderly behavior. The teachers were always so
sweet with the kids -- and I'll never forget the time I saw one of them
with the kids at dismissal time - kids were herded together to wait
quietly until they were claimed by parent. One kid was not so orderly.
Teacher With Sweet Voice had her hand on his arm/bicep area -- and I
noticed how firmly she was gripping him -- the voice and behavior
weren't exactly congruent. Pretty funny. The kid queued up.

OB Food: This is the first recipe I ever got from the internet when I
started reading news 10 years ago.

* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Meringue Berry Roll

Recipe By : Posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb Schaller 6-16-2005
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Desserts

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
4 egg whites - room temp.
3/4 c. sugar
1/4 tsp. cream of tartar
1 tsp. cornstarch
3/4 c. heavy cream
1 1/2 cups assorted berries (diced strawberries &
whole blueberries)

Beat egg whites until frothy. Continue to beat and gradually add
sugar. Beat until soft peaks form, then beat in cream of tartar and
cornstarch. Continue beating until stiff peaks form. Line a 9x13 inch
baking sheet with waxed paper. Spread the meringue evenly over the
paper and bake at 350° 12-15 min. until lightly browned. Cool
completely. Invert the meringue onto the work surface on another sheet
of waxed paper. Carefully peel off the first sheet of waxed paper.

Beat the cream until stiff. Spread the whipped cream evenly over the
meringue. Place the berries over the whipped cream. Beginning at one
long edge and using the sheet of waxed paper as a guide, roll the
meringue over the berries, jelly-roll style. Transfer to a serving
platter. Garnish with additional berries and mint leaves if desired.
Cut into 2 inch slices and serve. Serves 6.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Per serving (excluding unknown items): 1208 Calories; 66g Fat (48%
calories from fat); 4g Protein; 158g Carbohydrate; 245mg Cholesterol;
69mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 10 Fruit; 1/2 Non-Fat Milk; 13 Fat; 10 Other
Carbohydrates

NOTES : Source: Internet newsgroup rec.food.recipes
(Andrew Yale ), 13 Jul 1995. Made 7/17/95: I
think it tasted better after it chilled for several hours -- at least
overnight.

_____
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
(It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)

On 2005-06-16, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> I was stunned when I saw the register screen that's visible to the
> cashier but not the customer. It depicts a cash drawer with the
> denominations shown in each section -- and the number of units from each
> section required to make the correct change. "Two from this
> compartment, one from this one, four from that one. . . ." Jeez.

Really!? Damn, talk about dumbing down. No wonder they're trying to
eliminate checkers. If they're that dumb, might as well deal directly
with the customer, the dumbest creature of all!

nb

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> wrote:
>> During my pre-school years (which Ranee is discussing), I wasn't formally
>> home schooled, but my parents taught me grammar, manners, etc., and I had
>> lots of social interaction with other kids.
>
>> Carol
>
> Dams, for some reason your post made me recall a conversation with a
> relative. She'd had two kids with two different men, not married to
> either. I asked why she was sending her kids to a religious school
> --she wasn't of the faith. She said she wanted them to learn morals and
> they don't teach that in the public schools. Later, son Chris says to
> me, "Mom, I thought you were supposed to learn morals at home."


LOL - From the mouths of babes.....

Dimitri

"--" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Hairy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > >
> > > >But there's the pornography...
> > >
> > > Yes. There's that. Legal, heterosexual pornography with no children in
> it.
> > > No homosexuality. So maybe he's not asexual, but he certainly doesn't
> > > appear to be interested in homosexual porn.
> > >
> >
> > Really? What about the porn that was so bad that they weren't allowed to
> > view it in the courtroom? It involved nude teen and pre-teen boys in
> various
> > sexual poses. Those were sent to the jury room so that they could peruse
> > them in private.
> > H
> >
>
> BS "urban myth", or was that from the third stall down?
>

No. It was from Court TV, and heavily covered. Where do you get your info?

> If he really had had pictures of "teen and preteen boys in sexual poses",
> they would have brought charges for possession of child porn - and since
> that stuff is clearly and without a doubt child porn and not legal porn,
> those charges would have stuck.
> But there were no such pics.
>

The jurors were asked if they viewed the child porn during deliberations and
they said some did, but since that wasn't one of the charges against him,
they didn't think that affected their verdict.

In article >, notbob
> wrote:

> On 2005-06-16, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > I was stunned when I saw the register screen that's visible to the
> > cashier but not the customer. It depicts a cash drawer with the
> > denominations shown in each section -- and the number of units from
> > each section required to make the correct change. "Two from this
> > compartment, one from this one, four from that one. . . ." Jeez.

> Really!?

> Damn, talk about dumbing down. No wonder they're trying to
> eliminate checkers. If they're that dumb, might as well deal directly
> with the customer, the dumbest creature of all!
>
> nb
>
Honest to God, Bob! I don't know that every chain uses them, but next
time you're there, see if you can't get around to the cashier's side of
the register for a looksee. For all that, you don't want to know how
many times I've written a check for over the amount and the cashier
never looks at the amount. Doesn't give me change until I mention it.
Makes me want to write a check for LESS than the amount and see if they
catch THAT.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
(It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)

In article > , "Dimitri"
> wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> > Dams, for some reason your post made me recall a conversation with
> > a relative. She'd had two kids with two different men, not married
> > to either. I asked why she was sending her kids to a religious
> > school --she wasn't of the faith. She said she wanted them to
> > learn morals and they don't teach that in the public schools.
> > Later, son Chris says to me, "Mom, I thought you were supposed to
> > learn morals at home."

> LOL - From the mouths of babes.....
>
> Dimitri

He's a very insightful man. Was featured in his high school yearbook as
a senior with a comment about school -- to the effect that "classes are
to prepare you for a job or vocation. Real life learning about how to
get along in the world is in the hallways and the lunchroom." Spot on.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
(It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)