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Old 18-05-2005, 03:29 PM
Lacustral
 
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Default making glucose syrup from starch

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at pH
about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura

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Old 18-05-2005, 03:55 PM
muha
 
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Default

You do not need pancreatic enzymes. Amylases are present in germinating
grains - like malted barley. That is how rice syrup is made - there are
no simple sugars in rice, before you add malt to break down the rice
starch.

Please note that complete enzymatic hydrolysis would take ridiculous
quantity of enzyme or time (it would get mouldy faster). So what you
would get is actualy a mix of glucose, maltose and higher oligos,
called maltodextrin.

You can do hydrolysis of starch by heating it with diluted sulfuric
acid. To get the acid out, you neutralise with powdered CaCO3 and
filter.


Lacustral wrote:
I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I


think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at

pH
about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2005, 06:37 PM
Lacustral
 
Posts: n/a
Default

muha ) wrote:
You do not need pancreatic enzymes. Amylases are present in germinating
grains - like malted barley. That is how rice syrup is made - there are
no simple sugars in rice, before you add malt to break down the rice
starch.


I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Lacustral wrote:
I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I


think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at

pH
about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura


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Old 18-05-2005, 06:40 PM
Scott L
 
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Default

Lacustral wrote:
Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave

residues
that are inedible?


It would leave behind some calcium sulfate, i.e. gypsum.

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Old 18-05-2005, 06:53 PM
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lacustral wrote:
I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.


I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
typically used.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
- "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders


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Old 18-05-2005, 07:04 PM
Lacustral
 
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Default

muha ) wrote:

You can do hydrolysis of starch by heating it with diluted sulfuric
acid. To get the acid out, you neutralise with powdered CaCO3 and
filter.


How does this exactly work, like how hot, what concentration sulfuric
acid, etc.? And can one get sulfuric acid, CaCO3 (calcium carbonate?)
that one would be OK with eating the end product? (no carcinogenic
contaminants etc.?

Laura

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Old 18-05-2005, 07:25 PM
Wayne
 
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Default

Lacustral wrote:
I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Is your problem with grains the gluten, i.e., celiac disease? If so,
there are a number of resources out there about brewing gluten free
beers. Generally these involve using malted white sorgum, malted
buckwheat, and sometimes rice syrup. You might try this site:
http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/gf/

Hope this helps.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2005, 07:31 PM
muha
 
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Default

I cannot recommend doing this for a human consumption as a sweetener on
your own. It is not worth the effort and risks. And you would need
food-grade chemicals.

Also, you can buy glucose cheaply.

Please note that glucose is very weak sweetener - several times less
sweet than sucrose. What is wrong with using sugar, anyway? It tastes
better, too. Or you can buy fructose or use honey.

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Old 18-05-2005, 08:00 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wayne wrote:
Lacustral wrote:

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch,
like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of
amylase
enzyme.
Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura

Is your problem with grains the gluten, i.e., celiac disease? If so,
there are a number of resources out there about brewing gluten free
beers. Generally these involve using malted white sorgum, malted
buckwheat, and sometimes rice syrup. You might try this site:
http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/gf/

Hope this helps.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company



Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.

Best regards,
Bob
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Old 18-05-2005, 08:07 PM
Wazza
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Joel" wrote in message
...
: Lacustral wrote:
: I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
: me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
: use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
: from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
: think) used in beer brewing.
:
: I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
: we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
: in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
: typically used.
: --
but don't you heat in acidic conditions to make your wort?
cheers
Wazza





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Old 18-05-2005, 08:10 PM
Derric
 
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Default

Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.


For almost 100% malted sorghum beer, check out:
http://www.bardsbeer.com/

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2005, 08:29 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Derric wrote:
Malted sorghum? I thought that contained lethal amounts of cyanic
glucosides. The levels of cyanide might be reduced to safe levels during
fermentation (I don't know, this is the first time I've heard of using
malted sorghum to make beer), but the original poster is not planning to
ferment it but instead to make syrup. It could be extremely dangerous.



For almost 100% malted sorghum beer, check out:
http://www.bardsbeer.com/



Thanks. If I can find it, I'll have to try it. But that doesn't reduce
the danger in trying to make syrup from sprouted sorghum.

Best regards,
Bob
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Old 18-05-2005, 08:57 PM
Joel
 
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Default

Wazza wrote:
"Joel" wrote in message:
: Lacustral wrote:
: I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
: me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
: use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
: from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
: think) used in beer brewing.
:
: I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
: we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
: in malted barley (and wheat). No added enzymes are
: typically used.

but don't you heat in acidic conditions to make your wort?


We heat, and many of us don't do explicit acidification--
we simply heat the grains in water and let the chips fall
where they may wrt pH.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
- "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2005, 11:46 PM
Arri London
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Lacustral wrote:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.


Wouldn't it be easier just to buy the liquid glucose? Or else buy powder
glucose and make your own liquid?
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-05-2005, 12:08 AM
Robert Hinterding
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The problem here seems to food intollerances - corn and fructose.
You say you can't eat grains - does that mean all grains or just some of
them?

Mashing a starch with enzymes (need both alpha and beta amylases), is
not a very good solution as there are some problems.

First - a mixture of sugars will be produced, including fructose and
fructans.

Second - And you need to consider the gelatinisation temperature of the
starch and this varies with its source. Rice has a high gelatinisation
temperature, tapioca and potato have low gelatinisation temperatures.
The starch needs to be gelatinised before the enzymes can easily convert
the starches to sugars.


Glucose syrup is mainly produced by acid hydrolysis of corn or wheat
starch, but can use any starch. You can find information about the
process on the web.

Some sugars in Europe are produced from sugar beet, so it may be
possible to locate a glucose syrup made from this.

Making glucose syrup yourself is not going to be easy.


Lacustral wrote:

I can't eat grains, so I'm planning to start with a non-grain starch, like
tapioca starch or arrowroot starch. So I need to add some kind of amylase
enzyme.

Does the hydrolysis with sulfuric acid that you mentioned, leave residues
that are inedible?

thanks
Laura


Lacustral wrote:

I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody

help
me with the process? Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases -

they
use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
think) used in beer brewing.

I've read that you cook a starch/water mixture, keeping it at 150 F
somehow (what's a good way to keep a constant temperature?) and at


pH

about 5.5-5.6. I guess i could lower the pH with cream of tartar if
necessary.

I'm allergic to corn & somewhat fructose intolerant, and syrup
from starch should have very little fructose in it.

laura






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