I forget who it was in one of the "snob" threads who said to heck with
it, I'm gonna go fix some toasted cheese, but I was inspired to follow
suit. Having read the whole Aubrey/Maturin series and even having the
companion cookbook, I suddenly realized I had yet to indulge myself in
this much loved dish. Fortunately, having recently dumped the
cholesterol laden Adkins diet, I have some good bread about. Let's
see, what else is lying around?

Perfect! San Francisco sourdough and some Shropshire cheese sounds
like an excellent start. I partially toasted a slice of sourdough and
spread some softened (nuked for 10 secs) Shropshire on top and pop
into the toaster oven on broil. Leaving it in the t/o was taking too
long so I whipped out my trusy Bernz-0-matic creme brulee
cruster/spider killer and put a nice brown crust on the cheese.
Mmmm-mmm-mmmmmmm! If only I had a good porter. As it were, I had
some of Coor's excellent and oft underlooked Blue Moon Belgian-style
white beer (witbier).

I want to try the classic rarebit and add some porter and mustard.
Anyone have any experience they could contribute with this classic old
dish, such as recipe steps, amount of porter, etc? Also, anyone know
where to get a toasted cheese dish? I'm an incurable cooking utensil
freak and would like to find one if such a thing is still available.

nb

On 2005-05-13, Dog3 > wrote:

> Bob, the sammich sounds delightful. I've had a Norbury cheese in the past
> but never a Shropshire cheese. I looked it up on Google and found a ton of
> sites on it. Shropshire appears to be very similar to Norbury. Can you buy
> the Shropshire locally?

I can get Shropshire locally in several places. It's very pungent as
it uses Roquefort mold. The San Francisco Bay Area has great cheese
availability not to mention a lot of little boutique cheesemakers who
are very good at recreating other foreign cheeses. This is a good
thing because CA commercial cheese pretty much sucks. I don't know if
the rest of you are subject to the huge "California Cheese" ad
campaign, but it's a it's all bull.

I'll keep a lookout for Norbury. There's a place in Berkeley that has
a fantastic cheese shop. My favorite blue (I'm a cheddar and blue
freak) is Cabrales from Spain. This stuff is fantastico!

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> I want to try the classic rarebit and add some porter and mustard.
> Anyone have any experience they could contribute with this classic old
> dish, such as recipe steps, amount of porter, etc? Also, anyone know
> where to get a toasted cheese dish? I'm an incurable cooking utensil
> freak and would like to find one if such a thing is still available.
>
> nb

There is no single classic rabbit recipe. However, the kind you have in mind
is an excellent choice. This is an update (using a mixer) to a very old
recipe from Magdalen College, Oxford. It is a favorite of mine. Just use
porter as the ale you use. If you would like to try one of the earliest
versions (ca 1700s) of toasted cheese/rabbit, you can cut a thick slice of
country bread and toast it. Soak it with about a quarter cup of dark ale (or
a little more depending on it's size) and put a thin layer of prepared
mustard on top. Top the bread with slices of any good cheese and put it
under a broiler for a few minutes until the cheese is partly melted and
browned.

As for toasted cheese dishes, I have seen them in sales of used silverplate.
They are listed as "covered toasted cheese dishes" I am sorry I can't be
more specific but I couldn't afford it and really didn't need it when I saw
them. I have also seen a modern version made of aluminum listed as something
else (some kind of egg dish I think) but essentially the same design as the
early toasted cheese dishes. The covers are important BTW for keeping the
cheese warm during serving.

Charlie

MAGDALEN RABBIT

Recipe from: Magdalen College

6 oz. Glouster cheese (or Cheddar)
juice of 1/2 lemon
1/2 tsp. dry mustard
cayenne pepper
ale

Coarsely grate cheese into a mixer bowl. Add the lemon juice, mustard, a
pinch of the cayenne and enough ale to make a smooth paste. Spread the
creamy mixture over crisp toast and place under the broiler for about 5
minutes or until the cheese is a golden brown.

On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:


> There is no single classic rabbit recipe. However, the kind you have in mind
> is an excellent choice. This is an update (using a mixer) to a very old
> recipe from Magdalen College, Oxford. It is a favorite of mine. Just use
> porter as the ale you use. If you would like to try one of the earliest
> versions (ca 1700s) of toasted cheese/rabbit, you can cut a thick slice of
> country bread and toast it. Soak it with about a quarter cup of dark ale (or
> a little more depending on it's size) and put a thin layer of prepared
> mustard on top. Top the bread with slices of any good cheese and put it
> under a broiler for a few minutes until the cheese is partly melted and
> browned.

Now we're talkin'! I went down and bought a couple porters, a Sammy
Smith Taddy and St. Peter's Old-Style. But, I was confused on how the
whole thing comes together. I always pictured the dish like garlic
bread. You know, topped off and broiled, but still a pick-up-in-hand
piece of bread. But, the more I study, the more this thing looks like
a soggy piece of bread with melted cheese on top and eaten with
utensils, yes? How else can one eat porter soaked bread? Also, I
thought the mustard was put on the cheese so I was thinking mustard
powder. No?

So, here's what I got; great bread; great cheese, mustard and porter.
Which of the two porters is the best? For mustard I have Gray Poupon,
Mulden's, Chinese, and Coleman's powder. What do you suggest?
Obviously, I need a shallow dish to put the liquid laden bread/cheese
in the broiler, yes? Anything else? BTW, I'm munching prosciutto
wrapped nuked asparagus while sipping an IPA. Who says Fri 13th is
unlucky?

nb


>
> As for toasted cheese dishes, I have seen them in sales of used silverplate.
> They are listed as "covered toasted cheese dishes" I am sorry I can't be
> more specific but I couldn't afford it and really didn't need it when I saw
> them. I have also seen a modern version made of aluminum listed as something
> else (some kind of egg dish I think) but essentially the same design as the
> early toasted cheese dishes. The covers are important BTW for keeping the
> cheese warm during serving.
>
> Charlie
>
> MAGDALEN RABBIT
>
> Recipe from: Magdalen College
>
> 6 oz. Glouster cheese (or Cheddar)
> juice of 1/2 lemon
> 1/2 tsp. dry mustard
> cayenne pepper
> ale
>
> Coarsely grate cheese into a mixer bowl. Add the lemon juice, mustard, a
> pinch of the cayenne and enough ale to make a smooth paste. Spread the
> creamy mixture over crisp toast and place under the broiler for about 5
> minutes or until the cheese is a golden brown.
>
>

On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:
> them. I have also seen a modern version made of aluminum listed as something
> else (some kind of egg dish I think) but essentially the same design as the
> early toasted cheese dishes. The covers are important BTW for keeping the
> cheese warm during serving.

Oh crap, Charles! Scuz me! I was so busy replying, I missed the info
at the bottom. Sounds absolutely fantastic!! Thank you.

nb

On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:

Oh yeah! ...found a couple silver dishes on the net. Only a few
hundred pounds. Maybe someday!

nb

On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:

> is an excellent choice. This is an update (using a mixer) to a very old
> recipe from Magdalen College, Oxford....

So, that's Welsh Rarebit.

I'm a dead man!

nb

On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:56:07 -0500, notbob wrote:

> San Francisco sourdough and some Shropshire cheese sounds
> like an excellent start.

Bay Area? Where are you, Bob?

"notbob" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> I whipped out my trusy Bernz-0-matic creme brulee
> cruster/spider killer

hare krishna :-\

On 2005-05-14, sf > wrote:

> Bay Area? Where are you, Bob?

Out on the mild frontier of Eastern Alameda ...and my name is not
Bob!

nb

Good thread, Notbob, and good rec., but, how do you suppose Killick
prepared it on a crowded little frigate like the H.M.S. Suprise without
that propane torch and toaster oven? And did he make it on those
weevily ship's biscuits? eeeuuu..

D. "make mine manchego..." M.

On 2005-05-15, D.A.Martinich > wrote:
> Good thread, Notbob, and good rec., but, how do you suppose Killick
> prepared it on a crowded little frigate like the H.M.S. Suprise without
> that propane torch and toaster oven? And did he make it on those
> weevily ship's biscuits? eeeuuu..

Let's let Mr. O'Brian explain it:

"At one time this supper had consiisted of toasted cheese held in a
remarkably elegant piece of Irish sillver, a covered outer dish that
held six within it, the whole kept warm over a spirit-stove: the dish
was stil present, gleaming with a noble brilliance, but it held ony a
pap made of pounded biscuit, a little goat's milk and even less of
rock-hard cheese-rind rasped over the top and browned with a loggerhead
so that some faint odour of cheddar could stil just be made out."
-- Wine Dark Sea, 61

A loggerhead is an iron ball on the end of a metal rod and is used for
heating/melting tar/pitch into the ship's deck/planking seams.
Basically, it's a nautical version of a cooks hand held salamander and
no doubt works just as well on cheese as it does on tar.

nb

Hmmmm- I'll have to try that with some of my old Reggiano crust.

DM

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
<SNIP>

I gather that you are talking about the recipe in the body of my message --
the older one.

> Now we're talkin'! I went down and bought a couple porters, a Sammy
> Smith Taddy and St. Peter's Old-Style. But, I was confused on how the
> whole thing comes together. I always pictured the dish like garlic
> bread. You know, topped off and broiled, but still a pick-up-in-hand
> piece of bread.

It is a lot easier to eat rabbits with a knife and fork. You can eat the
more modern varieties by hand if you construct them in a way that allows it
to be lifted without spilling off the bread. That would, of course, mean
using less cheese/cheese mixture. I don't find that to be a good thing!

Now, toasted cheese, as served in the HMS Surprise, would probably involve
dipping the ships biscuit (smile) or toast into the melted cheese on the
dish. To my knowledge Toasted Cheese as a dish, meant simply "toasted
cheese". Rabbit/Rarebit always involves bread as a base.


>But, the more I study, the more this thing looks like
> a soggy piece of bread with melted cheese on top and eaten with
> utensils, yes? How else can one eat porter soaked bread?

Hee, hee! It can be confusing. In the early rabbits the bread used was very
stale bread that is quite crisp and dried out. This is a good way to use
that valuable food without wasting it. It was also cheap and so popular in
Taverns and Inns. It really doesn't have to be that soggy, but yes it was
usually eaten with a utensil of some type. Folks then weren't too focused on
neatness I fathom.

> Also, I
> thought the mustard was put on the cheese so I was thinking mustard
> powder. No?

Nowadays the mustard is mixed in with the cheese when making a rabbit. In
the past the cheese wasn't processed in any way except slicing it.

> So, here's what I got; great bread; great cheese, mustard and porter.
> Which of the two porters is the best? For mustard I have Gray Poupon,
> Mulden's, Chinese, and Coleman's powder. What do you suggest?

Any good ale is good to use. Of the two porters you mention Old Taddy is my
favorite. Actually it is my favorite porter. I even toured the brewery in
Tadcaster once. Amazing! In the old days, each cook would mix their own
prepared mustard. Of the ones you have on hand, I would choose the Grey
Poupon. I use Maille (I am especially fond of the Parisian) by preference.

> Obviously, I need a shallow dish to put the liquid laden bread/cheese
> in the broiler, yes?

Yep. Any broiler proof dish would work fine. I believe that earthenware,
iron or pewter was the choice in the "old days". The dish was cooked in the
fireplace BTW. The toast was toasted over the fire then the cheese was
melted with a fire iron spider. The food cooked in fireplaces would have a
certain amount of ash and other debris in it. I'm not sure how that would
add/subtract to the dish. It would seem as if there would be a bit of smoky
flavor added to the rabbit when cooked that way. If you think your bread is
too soggy, cut down on the liquid. The amount of liquid put in should be
just the amount that the bread can absorb. It will be quite damp but not
oozing if you get my meaning.

> Anything else? BTW, I'm munching prosciutto
> wrapped nuked asparagus while sipping an IPA. Who says Fri 13th is
> unlucky?
>
> nb

Well, just that the early rabbits and modern rabbits are usually made with
ale or other beer, those made, say from about 1750 to about 1900, were often
made with wine. The most often wines used, as far as I know, were Port,
Madera, and Sherry. Those dates are certainly not to be relied on -- they
are just an estimate on my part.

Asparagus wrapped in Parma ham is a noble treat! I am not an IPA fan though.
My tastes run to stout or Yorkshire bitter.

Charlie

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:
>
> Oh yeah! ...found a couple silver dishes on the net. Only a few
> hundred pounds. Maybe someday!
>
> nb

<Snort> That was my problem too!!

Charlie

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:
>
> > is an excellent choice. This is an update (using a mixer) to a very old
> > recipe from Magdalen College, Oxford....
>
> So, that's Welsh Rarebit.
>
> I'm a dead man!
>
> nb

Well, I prefer the term rabbit, but I try not to break out in sweats and
foam at the mouth when I hear rarebit. I had always held rarebit to be a
modern word but was proven wrong by Bubba Victor. He found some old uses of
the word thus proving me wrong in public. How embarrassing! <smile> Brother
Victor has access to an OED, the worm. I think that rabbit is probably the
older word anyway. Rabbits/rarebits are obviously derived from toasted
cheese. This may be true or false and just seeming to be obvious. There is
no way of knowing, but it seems to be a logical connection. "Toasted cheese"
was an amalgam of different ingredients as are modern rabbits/rarebits. That
is, the cheese is melted and mixed with other ingredients such as wine (HMS
Surprise), ale, milk, mustard, herbs, etc. This is pretty much in the style
of what a Welsh rabbit is. Cheese melted and blended with a liquid, various
other ingredients, often including egg, and served over toast, crumpet, etc.
The use of mustard is very common because of it's natural affinity with most
cheeses.

Now, as to it being Welsh: there are many different rabbits. The one I
posted is actually a Magdalen College rabbit. It is very similar to many
other rabbits. The cheese is not melted before putting it on the toast.
Welsh rabbits have the cheese melted prior to putting it on the toast. Then
again, so do many rabbits that do not claim the name Welsh but choose
another name. Such as Wisconsin rabbit, California rabbit, Dublin rabbit,
Cambridge rabbit and so on. The main difference between rabbits being the
type of cheese used and/or the type of wine or ale used. Those which use
milk are not worth considering IMHO, but we can include them in the general
category of Welsh rabbits.

I am afraid that this is quite rambling and not as informative as I would
wish. I keep promising my self that I will rebuild my cheese rabbit
collection again, but it seems to be too much of a project to take on. So I
rely on my aged memory and dream of researching it all again. I lost several
years of research because I did not back up my files and I had a computer
crash. I was an idiot. I have learned to back things up though.

Charlie

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2005-05-14, Charles Gifford > wrote:
>>
>> > is an excellent choice. This is an update (using a mixer) to a very
>> > old
>> > recipe from Magdalen College, Oxford....
>>
>> So, that's Welsh Rarebit.
>>
>> I'm a dead man!
>>
>> nb
>
> Well, I prefer the term rabbit, but I try not to break out in sweats
> and
> foam at the mouth when I hear rarebit.


Rabbit is the original term and you are right that rarebit is the modern
word for it

I have seen this from very old cookery books

Ophelia

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
. uk...
>
>
> Rabbit is the original term and you are right that rarebit is the modern
> word for it

Rabbit is likely the original term or at least one of several names for this
process. Rarebit is not modern unless you consider the 1700s modern.

> I have seen this from very old cookery books
>
> Ophelia

I have seen a refrence to cheese rabbit from the late 1600s in one journal.
There are many from the 18th century. I've never seen one from the 16th
century. Anyway, here are comments by two very trusted people:

"Deane Duane: It's (rarebit) a fancy version that started coming into use
in the mid 1800's. Until then, from the 1600's, it was always "rabbit".
Having been in Wales recently, I never saw it spelled any other way than
"rabbit" - when they weren't calling by it by it's even earlier name, that
is: "caws pobi": which means toasted cheese."

"Victor Sack: According to the OED, Welsh Rarebit is "an etymologizing
alteration of Welsh Rabbit. There is no evidence of the independent use of
rarebit." The first reference cited for Welsh Rabbit is from 1725, the first
one for Welsh Rarebit is from 1785."

As Deane also points out elsewhere, the dish is almost certainly an English
concoction regardless the name "Welsh".

Charlie

On 2005-05-15, Charles Gifford > wrote:
>
> As Deane also points out elsewhere, the dish is almost certainly an English
> concoction regardless the name "Welsh".

Welsh, Smelsh! ....where the heck does the rabbit come from? Unless
someone is milking rabbits, I can make no logical connection from
toasted cheese to rabbit.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
>
> Welsh, Smelsh! ....where the heck does the rabbit come from? Unless
> someone is milking rabbits, I can make no logical connection from
> toasted cheese to rabbit.
>
> nb

Other than being of English origin, nobody knows. There are a lot of
"guesses" and theories, but nothing definitive.

Charlie