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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 12:15 PM
Dee Randall
 
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"jmcquown" wrote in message
.. .
Dimitri wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
So tonight I'm making angel hair pasta with crab meat and baby
shrimp (both from cans) in a basil cream sauce. Not exactly a pesto
since I have no pine nuts or any other kind of nut (other than
myself) in the house. I only have dried oregano but I do have fresh
parsley and garlic.

I'll drizzle in olive oil to get the basil, parsley and garlic in
the food processor to the desired texture. Then it goes into a pan
with some cream (again to the desired texture). I'll heat this up
gently and add the drained crab meat and shrimp and stir it all into
the drained pasta. I do have fresh Parmesan which I will grate over
the top. I'll garnish with fresh slices of lemon and fresh parsley.
Might add a splash of the lemon to the mixture before I stir it all
together... depends on the way it tastes. Oh, and pepper, of course.

Jill
--
I used to have a handle on life...but it broke off.



If it ain't too late hold the cheese. It can very easily overpower the
shellfish.

Dimitri


It didn't I also added grated lemon zest, sauteed broccoli and carrot
to
add colour to the dish. It's delicious! I'll do this again.

Jill


I agree about cheese and shellfish, there is something about it that you
think it probably goes together in a mixed oven-casserole-type dish, but
fish and cheese never seems to agree with me.
Dee



  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 12:42 PM
Rona Y.
 
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Damsel wrote:


I think Jill's biggest crime is including too much information when
she posts. I told her so in e-mail, and I think she's taking it to
heart. I know her pretty well. I think she's more detail-oriented
than prejudiced. She shops at that store several times a week. I
don't think she'd do that if she had a problem with the people who
work there.

Just my 50 cents.
Carol


That ranks right up there with "I'm not prejudiced...some of my best friends
are (fill in the ethnicity here)." Which, by the way, is quite similar to
an argument she has made before.

It isn't that she mentioned the people were "foreign born" (which in itself
is a contentious phrase) that shows her prejudices, it's the implication
that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or understand that the
pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen (and was therefore
stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the post--she's so lucky to get
free pasta because some dumbass foreigner couldn't read). That and the
implication that the foreign-born boss is literate *because* he was educated
in England (why mention the latter were it not important?). I know many
North American born people of European descent who are illiterate or not
very competent readers. Should the pasta have been shelved by one of them,
would Jill have mentioned the staff member was "American-born" or even
Caucasian? Or that the person might not have been literate?

There are some stories where ethnicity *is* important. For example, when
the Filipino salesman tried to sell some kind of furniture cleaner to a
business. He kept asking them to "look at my penis." Since certain groups
of Filipinos pronounce "f" as "p" and the "sh" sound as "s", and short "i"
as long "i", by knowing that he was Filipino, you can understand what he
was really saying. In that case, that he was not a native speaker of
English is essential to the story. In Jill's case, this is not so.

FWIW, I think everyone has prejudices--*everyone* (and if I say someone has
prejudices, it does not mean I think they're racist). It's what you do with
those prejudices that matters. Do you pretend they don't exist and continue
making statements that offend people (because you're too
obtuse/insensitive/self-centered to notice your remarks are offensive)? Or
do you recognize them, accept them and do your best to conquer or control
them? Most people seem to fall into the first category (or the third
category, where you openly recognize your prejudices and thrive on them) and
IMO, Jill is most definitely in that first category. Note that this is not
the first time Jill has made an offensive ethnically-biased statement on
this ng. It's not that she's detail-oriented, it's that she's ignorant of
her own prejudices.

If anyone is interested, Milton Bennett's works on intercultural competence
are excellent reads--particularly his model of intercultural senstivity (he
has six stages, as opposed to my simplistic three categories--I'm much more
judgmental than he).

rona
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"[America] is filled with people who decided not to live in Europe. We
had people who really wanted to live in Europe, but didn't have the
energy to go back. We call them Canadians." ---Grover Norquist in
Newsweek, November 22, 2004


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 01:28 PM
kilikini
 
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jmcquown wrote:
Damsel wrote:
"jmcquown" said:

Damsel wrote:

I think Jill's biggest crime is including too much information when
she posts. I told her so in e-mail, and I think she's taking it to
heart. I know her pretty well. I think she's more detail-oriented
than prejudiced. She shops at that store several times a week. I
don't think she'd do that if she had a problem with the people who
work there.

Just my 50 cents.
Carol

Exactly. Not to mention, I took them dinner (Minestrone) last week
because if you work from 3-midnight, when do you get a chance to
eat? And the Minestrone did not include Italian sausage because I'm
sensitive to the fact these guys (who are from Yemen) don't eat
pork. They are very nice people.


I know the real reason you didn't include Italian sausage in the
soup. It's because you hate Italians! I know you!

Carol


LOL! Yep, and I won't eat pasta, either, for that very reason! Nor
do I eat Bratwurst because I hate Germans. I'm just one flaming
prejudiced person who will only eat Haggis and blood sausage. G

Jill


And you don't eat chowder because you hate people from New England. Come
on, tell the truth!

kili


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 01:31 PM
kilikini
 
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Rona Y. wrote:
Damsel wrote:


That ranks right up there with "I'm not prejudiced...some of my best
friends are (fill in the ethnicity here)." Which, by the way, is
quite similar to an argument she has made before.

It isn't that she mentioned the people were "foreign born" (which in
itself is a contentious phrase) that shows her prejudices, it's the
implication that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or
understand that the pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen
(and was therefore stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the
post--she's so lucky to get free pasta because some dumbass foreigner
couldn't read). That and the implication that the foreign-born boss
is literate *because* he was educated in England (why mention the
latter were it not important?). I know many North American born
people of European descent who are illiterate or not very competent
readers. Should the pasta have been shelved by one of them, would
Jill have mentioned the staff member was "American-born" or even
Caucasian? Or that the person might not have been literate?


I'm not prejudiced either, but I would have probably included some sort of
ethniticity in explanation to the story if I told it too. The fact remains
that the store attendant couldn't read English and the pasta wasn't put in
the refrigerator. His partner/boss *could* read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got some free
pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 03:42 PM
jmcquown
 
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kilikini wrote:
Rona Y. wrote:
Damsel wrote:


That ranks right up there with "I'm not prejudiced...some of my best
friends are (fill in the ethnicity here)." Which, by the way, is
quite similar to an argument she has made before.

It isn't that she mentioned the people were "foreign born" (which in
itself is a contentious phrase) that shows her prejudices, it's the
implication that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or
understand that the pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen
(and was therefore stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the
post--she's so lucky to get free pasta because some dumbass foreigner
couldn't read). That and the implication that the foreign-born boss
is literate *because* he was educated in England (why mention the
latter were it not important?). I know many North American born
people of European descent who are illiterate or not very competent
readers. Should the pasta have been shelved by one of them, would
Jill have mentioned the staff member was "American-born" or even
Caucasian? Or that the person might not have been literate?


I'm not prejudiced either, but I would have probably included some
sort of ethniticity in explanation to the story if I told it too.


And yes, I would have mentioned it even if the guy was American and couldn't
read.

The fact remains that the store attendant couldn't read English and
the pasta wasn't put in the refrigerator.


And I even showed him on the label "must be refrigerated or frozen" AND
pointed to the cooler case where they store cheeses, bacon, etc. He
obviously didn't understand me because the alternative would be he chose to
ignore me, which would just be stupid since it's his cousin's store.
Whatever.

His partner/boss *could*
read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got
some free pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili


Thank you, kili.

Jill




  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 04:13 PM
Margaret Suran
 
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jmcquown wrote:
kilikini wrote:

read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got
some free pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili



Thank you, kili.

Jill



Just wait until someone sees your post about your dislike for blue
cheeses, while showing a marked preference for the white ones. This
will certainly merit some attention from some posters, who will point
out your prejudice in that matter.
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 04:48 PM
kilikini
 
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Margaret Suran wrote:
jmcquown wrote:
kilikini wrote:

read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got
some free pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili



Thank you, kili.

Jill



Just wait until someone sees your post about your dislike for blue
cheeses, while showing a marked preference for the white ones. This
will certainly merit some attention from some posters, who will point
out your prejudice in that matter.


Oh, no! I don't care for blue cheese either! Well, Jill and I can go hide
in a corner now. :~)

kili


  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 04:55 PM
Lynne A
 
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"jmcquown" wrote in message
.. .

I know the real reason you didn't include Italian sausage in the soup.
It's because you hate Italians! I know you!

Carol


LOL! Yep, and I won't eat pasta, either, for that very reason! Nor do I

eat
Bratwurst because I hate Germans. I'm just one flaming prejudiced person
who will only eat Haggis and blood sausage. G

Jill


EWWWWWW!

Lynne A



  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 04:57 PM
Margaret Suran
 
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kilikini wrote:
Margaret Suran wrote:

jmcquown wrote:

kilikini wrote:


read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got
some free pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili


Thank you, kili.

Jill



Just wait until someone sees your post about your dislike for blue
cheeses, while showing a marked preference for the white ones. This
will certainly merit some attention from some posters, who will point
out your prejudice in that matter.



Oh, no! I don't care for blue cheese either! Well, Jill and I can go hide
in a corner now. :~)

kili


Make room for me, too. I do not like blue cheeses and goat and sheep
cheeses even less. Please, do not tell anybody. )
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 07:48 PM
jmcquown
 
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kilikini wrote:
Margaret Suran wrote:
jmcquown wrote:
kilikini wrote:

read English, however.

Ultimately, to thank her for pointing out their faux pas, she got
some free pasta! What's the big deal? Kudos to Jill!

kili


Thank you, kili.

Jill



Just wait until someone sees your post about your dislike for blue
cheeses, while showing a marked preference for the white ones. This
will certainly merit some attention from some posters, who will point
out your prejudice in that matter.


Oh, no! I don't care for blue cheese either! Well, Jill and I can
go hide in a corner now. :~)

kili


Oh shoot, and I only buy white lightbulbs. They do make black ones but I
gave up those drugs a long time ago

Jill




  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 08:51 PM
Damsel
 
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"Rona Y." said:

Damsel wrote:

I think Jill's biggest crime is including too much information when
she posts. I told her so in e-mail, and I think she's taking it to
heart. I know her pretty well. I think she's more detail-oriented
than prejudiced. She shops at that store several times a week. I
don't think she'd do that if she had a problem with the people who
work there.


That ranks right up there with "I'm not prejudiced...some of my best friends
are (fill in the ethnicity here)." Which, by the way, is quite similar to
an argument she has made before.

It isn't that she mentioned the people were "foreign born" (which in itself
is a contentious phrase) that shows her prejudices, it's the implication
that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or understand that the
pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen (and was therefore
stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the post--she's so lucky to get
free pasta because some dumbass foreigner couldn't read). That and the
implication that the foreign-born boss is literate *because* he was educated
in England (why mention the latter were it not important?). I know many
North American born people of European descent who are illiterate or not
very competent readers. Should the pasta have been shelved by one of them,
would Jill have mentioned the staff member was "American-born" or even
Caucasian? Or that the person might not have been literate?

There are some stories where ethnicity *is* important. For example, when
the Filipino salesman tried to sell some kind of furniture cleaner to a
business. He kept asking them to "look at my penis." Since certain groups
of Filipinos pronounce "f" as "p" and the "sh" sound as "s", and short "i"
as long "i", by knowing that he was Filipino, you can understand what he
was really saying. In that case, that he was not a native speaker of
English is essential to the story. In Jill's case, this is not so.

FWIW, I think everyone has prejudices--*everyone* (and if I say someone has
prejudices, it does not mean I think they're racist). It's what you do with
those prejudices that matters. Do you pretend they don't exist and continue
making statements that offend people (because you're too
obtuse/insensitive/self-centered to notice your remarks are offensive)? Or
do you recognize them, accept them and do your best to conquer or control
them? Most people seem to fall into the first category (or the third
category, where you openly recognize your prejudices and thrive on them) and
IMO, Jill is most definitely in that first category. Note that this is not
the first time Jill has made an offensive ethnically-biased statement on
this ng. It's not that she's detail-oriented, it's that she's ignorant of
her own prejudices.


That could be. Could be true of a lot of us. The thing with Jill is,
she's a very kind person. She just doesn't always communicate in the best
way. She's someone who is very open to constructive criticism. I do it
all the time, and she has never disregarded my suggestions. This is the
letter I wrote to her last night, after your previous post (I am posting
this with the highest degree of certainty that she won't mind my doing so):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think you're prejudiced, but sometimes you appear to be. My advice
- if the race or language of someone you're writing about isn't mandatory
to get the point across, omit it.

If I'd written your post, I'd have mentioned that the stock guy didn't
speak or read much English, but that when you talked to the (non-described)
owner, the situation was rectified.

I know you mean no harm. But that's because I actually know you. To
someone who doesn't know what kind of a person you are, that post could
sound condescending.

I really, really hope you're not ****ed off at me now. I'm just providing
my perspective. I know your heart. It's not hateful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She did get back to me to reassure me that she wasn't ****ed off, and that
she understood what I was saying. I know that she'll edit her posts more
carefully in the future. If you look at any of Jill's longer posts, you'll
likely notice that she includes a lot of (don't get mad, Jill) basically
irrelevant information. But she's trying to tell a story, and create a
picture. She's sharing her life experiences. She's being generous with
herself.

This is my last post defending Jill. She has vowed to pay closer attention
to what she posts, and I know that she'll honor that vow. She's done that
with every suggestion I've made to her in the past. Jill's word is her
bond.

Carol
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 08:55 PM
Damsel
 
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Margaret Suran said:

Just wait until someone sees your post about your dislike for blue
cheeses, while showing a marked preference for the white ones. This
will certainly merit some attention from some posters, who will point
out your prejudice in that matter.


I don't like blue cheese, either, but I do like Oompa-Loompas, so I don't
think I have a strong issue with the color blue. I like white, orange,
orange with red swirls, and both white and orange with various dots in
them. Just not blue dots. I hope I'm not a closet bigot.

Carol
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 08:59 PM
Damsel
 
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Margaret Suran said:

Make room for me, too. I do not like blue cheeses and goat and sheep
cheeses even less. Please, do not tell anybody. )


So you don't like cheese from short mammals. What's that all about? I
suppose your favorite animal is a giraffe, isn't it? What you must think
of bunny rabbits.

Carol, shaking her head
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2005, 09:26 PM
Gal Called Jani
 
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One time on Usenet, "Rona Y." said:

it's the implication
that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or understand that the
pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen (and was therefore
stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the post--she's so lucky to get
free pasta because some dumbass foreigner couldn't read).


snip

Funny, my take on her comment was that the fellow had a very good
reason for not reading English -- he wasn't born here. I didn't think
she implied that being non-American made him "stupid". Maybe predjudice
is in the eye of the reader...

--
Jani in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2005, 01:30 AM
kilikini
 
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Gal Called Jani wrote:
One time on Usenet, "Rona Y." said:

it's the implication
that because he was foreign born, he couldn't read or understand
that the pasta should have been refrigerated or frozen (and was
therefore stupid--implied, not stated by the tone of the post--she's
so lucky to get free pasta because some dumbass foreigner couldn't
read).


snip

Funny, my take on her comment was that the fellow had a very good
reason for not reading English -- he wasn't born here. I didn't think
she implied that being non-American made him "stupid". Maybe
predjudice
is in the eye of the reader...


High five, Jani! I'm in total agreement with you.

kili




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