here in the u.k. the health authorities have banned anyone who has had
a blood transfusion in the last 20 years from being a blood
donor.there is concern that blood transfusions and the variant cjd are
linked by the donors themselves being carriers..Some recipients of
blood including a hoemophiliac (spelling may not be correct)have signs
of the disease.This is giving widespread concerns of blood stocks
dwindling.Will all this NEVER end.?.

>here in the u.k. the health authorities have banned anyone who has had
>a blood transfusion in the last 20 years from being a blood
>donor.

here in the u.s. I can't donate blood because I lived overseas within the last
20 years. I moved back to the u.s. from germany in 1997.


Denny

>here in the u.k. the health authorities have banned anyone who has had
>a blood transfusion in the last 20 years from being a blood
>donor.

here in the u.s. I can't donate blood because I lived overseas within the last
20 years. I moved back to the u.s. from germany in 1997.


Denny

paula wrote:
> Will all this NEVER end.?.

This will end when unscrupulous cow farmers stop using downer and mad
cows as feed. There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
humans that eat those cows.

As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
farmers. They earned my skepticism.

Yet I still eat beef... I cannot give up beef. It is just too good.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/

paula wrote:
> Will all this NEVER end.?.

This will end when unscrupulous cow farmers stop using downer and mad
cows as feed. There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
humans that eat those cows.

As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
farmers. They earned my skepticism.

Yet I still eat beef... I cannot give up beef. It is just too good.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/

In article >,
John Gaughan > wrote:

> paula wrote:
> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>
> This will end when unscrupulous cow farmers stop using downer and mad
> cows as feed. There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
> species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
> humans that eat those cows.
>
> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
>
> Yet I still eat beef... I cannot give up beef. It is just too good.

Eat New Zealand beef. No mad cows here. (And they're all
free-range and grass-fed.)

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article >,
John Gaughan > wrote:

> paula wrote:
> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>
> This will end when unscrupulous cow farmers stop using downer and mad
> cows as feed. There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
> species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
> humans that eat those cows.
>
> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
>
> Yet I still eat beef... I cannot give up beef. It is just too good.

Eat New Zealand beef. No mad cows here. (And they're all
free-range and grass-fed.)

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
> paula wrote:
> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>
> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
> farmers. They earned my skepticism.


The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
Prion contamination can also occur via the pneumatic guns they use to
literally blow their brains out.....duh....I guess they won't learn till it
hits em in the pocketbook. .They've found brain parts deep inside some
cows.

Imo, in time we'll discover it was the Mad Ranchers & Mad Beef Processors
that preceded the Mad Cows.

<Jon K>

"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
> paula wrote:
> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>
> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
> farmers. They earned my skepticism.


The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
Prion contamination can also occur via the pneumatic guns they use to
literally blow their brains out.....duh....I guess they won't learn till it
hits em in the pocketbook. .They've found brain parts deep inside some
cows.

Imo, in time we'll discover it was the Mad Ranchers & Mad Beef Processors
that preceded the Mad Cows.

<Jon K>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:58:33 -0600, John Gaughan
> wrote:

>There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
>species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
>humans that eat those cows.

What evidence is this? If a species is free of disease that can be
spread by contact with or consumption of blood or flesh, I can think
of no particular scientific drawbacks to cannibalism.

I am having my family for dinner tonight.

Boron

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:58:33 -0600, John Gaughan
> wrote:

>There is strong evidence that cannibalism is bad for any
>species, and mad cow proves that it is not only bad for cows but also
>humans that eat those cows.

What evidence is this? If a species is free of disease that can be
spread by contact with or consumption of blood or flesh, I can think
of no particular scientific drawbacks to cannibalism.

I am having my family for dinner tonight.

Boron

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> wrote:

>
>"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
>> paula wrote:
>> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>>
>> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
>> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
>> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
>> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
>
>
>The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
>meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
>spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
>the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
>fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.

Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
Vegan/PETA actiivsts.

Boron

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> wrote:

>
>"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
>> paula wrote:
>> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
>>
>> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
>> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns for
>> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and cow
>> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
>
>
>The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
>meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
>spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
>the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
>fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.

Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
Vegan/PETA actiivsts.

Boron

(denny) wrote in message >...
> >here in the u.k. the health authorities have banned anyone who has had
> >a blood transfusion in the last 20 years from being a blood
> >donor.
>
> here in the u.s. I can't donate blood because I lived overseas within the last
> 20 years. I moved back to the u.s. from germany in 1997.
>
>
> Denny

when i lived in Germany this last time, anyone knowingly going into a
local hospital for an op. was advised to have some of their own blood
on standby in case a transfuion was necessary. They were rather
worried about giving foreigners blood in case of any repercusions.
obviously this was no good if the hospitalisation was without notice.

(denny) wrote in message >...
> >here in the u.k. the health authorities have banned anyone who has had
> >a blood transfusion in the last 20 years from being a blood
> >donor.
>
> here in the u.s. I can't donate blood because I lived overseas within the last
> 20 years. I moved back to the u.s. from germany in 1997.
>
>
> Denny

when i lived in Germany this last time, anyone knowingly going into a
local hospital for an op. was advised to have some of their own blood
on standby in case a transfuion was necessary. They were rather
worried about giving foreigners blood in case of any repercusions.
obviously this was no good if the hospitalisation was without notice.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:43:58 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:25:12 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> wrote:
>
>>>The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
>>>meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
>>>spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
>>>the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
>>>fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
>
>I remember it being 25%, not 33%. It's still a lot.
>
>>Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
>>to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
>>Vegan/PETA actiivsts.
>
>This is only one of dozens of reports on the issue.
>
>http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/topics/AMRSurvey.pdf
>
>This is one that evaluates the data several different ways. Not
>sure if 33% or 25% is correct; I'm sure they're both correct.
>
>-sw

Actually, the citation you quote, which is quite interesting and talks
of a survey among a sample of meat producers (34 in one and 25 in
another) certainly indicates that are some with CNS tissue in their
products, but this says absolutely nothing whatsoever about "hot dogs
hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco fillers." And, realize, too, this is
a very small sample size and I have no idea of how representative of
AMR meat production facilities it is.

Though it is imperative that we are vigilant and steadfast in
monitoring the food stuffs in this country at all times and especially
in light of our growing knowledge of wasting diseases in animals, it
is as important to quote statistics and stories accurately and without
bias or inflammatory exaggeration. Inaccuracy or bias in reportage
does no one any good.

Boron

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:43:58 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:25:12 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> wrote:
>
>>>The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
>>>meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil the
>>>spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
>>>the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
>>>fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
>
>I remember it being 25%, not 33%. It's still a lot.
>
>>Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
>>to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
>>Vegan/PETA actiivsts.
>
>This is only one of dozens of reports on the issue.
>
>http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/topics/AMRSurvey.pdf
>
>This is one that evaluates the data several different ways. Not
>sure if 33% or 25% is correct; I'm sure they're both correct.
>
>-sw

Actually, the citation you quote, which is quite interesting and talks
of a survey among a sample of meat producers (34 in one and 25 in
another) certainly indicates that are some with CNS tissue in their
products, but this says absolutely nothing whatsoever about "hot dogs
hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco fillers." And, realize, too, this is
a very small sample size and I have no idea of how representative of
AMR meat production facilities it is.

Though it is imperative that we are vigilant and steadfast in
monitoring the food stuffs in this country at all times and especially
in light of our growing knowledge of wasting diseases in animals, it
is as important to quote statistics and stories accurately and without
bias or inflammatory exaggeration. Inaccuracy or bias in reportage
does no one any good.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message new
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
> >> paula wrote:
> >> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
> >>
> >> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> >> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns
for
> >> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and
cow
> >> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
> >
> >
> >The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
> >meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil
the
> >spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
> >the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
> >fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
>
> Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
> to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
> Vegan/PETA actiivsts.
>

Well, yes and no. I posted this in another group some time ago. Didn't
include the ref. I know I have it, but it's on my crashed HDrive.

Found this one, remarkably similar, but I distinctly recall my orig- source
claimed it was a USDA study, not a vague ref to a "gov't survey".

http://www.cspinet.org/foodsafety/saferbeef.html

Potentially risky:

Meat products that might contain brain, spinal cord, or central nervous
system tissue. These include cow brains, head cheese, neck bones, cheek
meat, and ox-tail from cattle.
Products that contain beef extracted by "advanced meat recovery" (AMR)
machines that squeeze out the last bits of meat from cow carcasses. A 2002
government survey found that one in three samples of this reclaimed meat was
contaminated with spinal cord and other central nervous system tissue. AMR
beef may be used in some hot dogs, taco fillings, pizza toppings, sausages,
and beef jerky made from ground or chopped meat. Manufacturers are not
required to identify AMR beef on food labels.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message new
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:12:59 -0500, "Jon Leipzig"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"John Gaughan" > wrote in message news:105nj
> >> paula wrote:
> >> > Will all this NEVER end.?.
> >>
> >> As for the idea that you are safe as long as you do not eat cow brains,
> >> well, I do not trust that. This whole ordeal has taken several turns
for
> >> the worse in terms of trusting the government, medical research, and
cow
> >> farmers. They earned my skepticism.
> >
> >
> >The problem is, these CNS (central nervous system) parts are used in many
> >meat products such as beef stock, beef extract & flavorings. They boil
the
> >spinal cord with the skeletal remains. According to a survey last year by
> >the USDA , about one-third of hot dogs ,hamburgers, pizza toppings, taco
> >fillers, tested positive for CNS tissue.
>
> Do you have a citation for that USDA info? All I can find that refers
> to it are referenced through people like Michael Gregar who are
> Vegan/PETA actiivsts.
>

Well, yes and no. I posted this in another group some time ago. Didn't
include the ref. I know I have it, but it's on my crashed HDrive.

Found this one, remarkably similar, but I distinctly recall my orig- source
claimed it was a USDA study, not a vague ref to a "gov't survey".

http://www.cspinet.org/foodsafety/saferbeef.html

Potentially risky:

Meat products that might contain brain, spinal cord, or central nervous
system tissue. These include cow brains, head cheese, neck bones, cheek
meat, and ox-tail from cattle.
Products that contain beef extracted by "advanced meat recovery" (AMR)
machines that squeeze out the last bits of meat from cow carcasses. A 2002
government survey found that one in three samples of this reclaimed meat was
contaminated with spinal cord and other central nervous system tissue. AMR
beef may be used in some hot dogs, taco fillings, pizza toppings, sausages,
and beef jerky made from ground or chopped meat. Manufacturers are not
required to identify AMR beef on food labels.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in messag
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:43:58 -0600, Steve Wertz
> > wrote:


> is as important to quote statistics and stories accurately and without
> bias or inflammatory exaggeration. Inaccuracy or bias in reportage
> does no one any good.
>
Imo, it's only important if you assume you know which sources of info are
accurate/unbiased.
Do you trust the USDA??
(trivia: the No.2 person & the PR wench came to the USDA from the
Cattlemen's Ass'n.)

sidenote: A major wire service, UPI, had been trying for months to get
verification from the USDA that 20,000 cattle had been tested. Seems to me,
it's be easily obtainable if it were documented.

ps: from all my MC reading (still on my crashed HD), I no longer believe the
feed is the causitive agent. The same feed supposedly responsible for the
major outbreak in the UK, had been exported to many other countries for
decades.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in messag
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:43:58 -0600, Steve Wertz
> > wrote:


> is as important to quote statistics and stories accurately and without
> bias or inflammatory exaggeration. Inaccuracy or bias in reportage
> does no one any good.
>
Imo, it's only important if you assume you know which sources of info are
accurate/unbiased.
Do you trust the USDA??
(trivia: the No.2 person & the PR wench came to the USDA from the
Cattlemen's Ass'n.)

sidenote: A major wire service, UPI, had been trying for months to get
verification from the USDA that 20,000 cattle had been tested. Seems to me,
it's be easily obtainable if it were documented.

ps: from all my MC reading (still on my crashed HD), I no longer believe the
feed is the causitive agent. The same feed supposedly responsible for the
major outbreak in the UK, had been exported to many other countries for
decades.