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Brining Question - Corned Beef
I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of
salt in the brine. If so, what's the minimum salt that I can get away with? And can any or all of the sugar be replaced by Splenda? I'm just not sure what the various ingredients contribute to the process. TIA * Exported from MasterCook * Corned Beef Recipe By :Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : beef brines/rubs/marinades Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- ---Brining--- 2 quarts water -- or more if needed 1 1/4 cups kosher salt 1 cup sugar 3 tablespoons pickling spice 7 pounds beef bottom round -- trimmed of fat ---Cooking--- 1 medium onion 3 whole cloves 3 cloves garlic 1 carrot -- coarsely chopped 1 celery rib -- coarsely chopped 3 bay leaves 1 teaspoon peppercorns 1. Bring water to a boil in a saucepan. Add salt and sugar, and stir to dissolve. Stir in pickling spices. Allow to cool to room temperature, then refrigerate until cooled to 45ºF. 2. Pour brine into a large bowl or crock and submerge the meat in it, making sure it stays under the surface by using a heavy plate as a weight. Refrigerate for 8 to 12 days. Stir the brine each day, and turn the beef occasionally. 3. To cook the corned beef, remove the meat from the brine and put it in a large pot. Cover with water and add the vegetables, bay leaves, and peppercorns. Simmer over low heat until tender, 2-1/2 to 3 hours, or more if necessary. 4. Thinly slice across the grain and serve hot or cold. Source: "The Complete Meat Cookbook" Copyright: "1998 Houghton Mifflin Company" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per serving: 948 Calories (kcal); 54g Total Fat; (52% calories from fat); 81g Protein; 29g Carbohydrate; 254mg Cholesterol; 14335mg Sodium Food Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 10 1/2 Lean Meat; 1/2 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 3 1/2 Fat; 1 1/2 Other Carbohydrates -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
"Damsel in dis Dress" > wrote in message ... > I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of > salt in the brine. If so, what's the minimum salt that I can get away > with? > > And can any or all of the sugar be replaced by Splenda? I'm just not sure > what the various ingredients contribute to the process. TIA > Some things just have to be. Don't screw up a time tested process with Splenda and reduce the salt to risk improper curing that can put your health at risk. These numbers are not guesses, they are centuries old procedures. Very little of the sugar will end up in the meat. Splenda is an unknown chemical (in this process) yet and I'd not risk it in curing meats. Same with the salt. Only the amount needed will be absorbed and retained after a soak and rinse. Less will not cure properly during those 8 to 12 days. Improperly cure meat can go bad. It is not there just for flavor, it is to preserve the meat from spoilage. -- Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/ |
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the > amount of salt in the brine. If so, what's the minimum salt that I > can get away with? > > And can any or all of the sugar be replaced by Splenda? I'm just not > sure what the various ingredients contribute to the process. TIA > > > * Exported from MasterCook * > > Corned Beef > > Recipe By :Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly > Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00 > Categories : beef brines/rubs/marinades > > > Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method > -------- ------------ -------------------------------- > ---Brining--- > 2 quarts water -- or more if needed > 1 1/4 cups kosher salt > 1 cup sugar > 3 tablespoons pickling spice > 7 pounds beef bottom round -- trimmed of fat > ---Cooking--- > 1 medium onion > 3 whole cloves > 3 cloves garlic > 1 carrot -- coarsely chopped > 1 celery rib -- coarsely chopped > 3 bay leaves > 1 teaspoon peppercorns > > 1. Bring water to a boil in a saucepan. Add salt and sugar, and > stir to dissolve. Stir in pickling spices. Allow to cool to room > temperature, then refrigerate until cooled to 45ºF. > > 2. Pour brine into a large bowl or crock and submerge the meat in it, > making sure it stays under the surface by using a heavy plate as a > weight. Refrigerate for 8 to 12 days. Stir the brine each day, and > turn the beef occasionally. > > 3. To cook the corned beef, remove the meat from the brine and put > it in a large pot. Cover with water and add the vegetables, bay > leaves, and peppercorns. Simmer over low heat until tender, 2-1/2 to > 3 hours, or more if necessary. > > 4. Thinly slice across the grain and serve hot or cold. > > Source: > "The Complete Meat Cookbook" > Copyright: > "1998 Houghton Mifflin Company" > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - > > Per serving: 948 Calories (kcal); 54g Total Fat; (52% calories from > fat); 81g Protein; 29g Carbohydrate; 254mg Cholesterol; 14335mg Sodium > Food Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 10 1/2 Lean Meat; 1/2 Vegetable; 0 > Fruit; 3 1/2 Fat; 1 1/2 Other Carbohydrates Darn it, Damsel, this was a FINE question to ask the former Mr. Jack Curry (me he rest in peace) because he did a fine Corned Beef and a fine Pastrami. We were always asking his advice in that department. But yes, I would agree with Ed P. that I wouldn't use splenda due to it's chemical make up. Remember, the meat sits for about a week or so. Without the proper brine ingredients, you may end up with a hunk of bad meat. I'd just go with the sugar and deal with it. Usually, you want to soak the meat in clear water for a day or two after the brine anyway, which removes a great deal of the salt and or sugar. Otherwise it will be way too salty. kili |
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of > salt in the brine. If so, what's the minimum salt that I can get away > with? > And can any or all of the sugar be replaced by Splenda? I'm just not sure > what the various ingredients contribute to the process. TIA > Corned Beef (clipped for posterity) Ditto what the others said. I've used a lot of splenda in preserved pickles & jams. IMHO, in pickles the amount of salt needs to be reduced to provide the right "balance" of flavors. Reducing the salt & sugar both might deter preservation. Edrena |
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> > I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of > salt in the brine. Are you doing this to have corned beef for a sandwich, or are you going to put it in a recipe like New England Boiled Dinner? If you are corning it to keep it, I'm not sure, but if you are corning it to put in something like NEBD, you can get away with ALOT less, as it isn't a preservative. My mother, not in the perserved meat school (she thought it unhealthy), used un-corned beef, same cut, for NEBD and I remember licking the plate AND eating every nibble of the cabbage, the only way I could stand it as a child. blacksalt |
>I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of
>salt in the brine. No nitrates or nitrites? What kinda corned beef is MasterCook trying to get us to accept? Neil |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:43:57 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>"Damsel in dis Dress" > wrote in message .. . >> I'm wondering if the follow recipe can be modified to reduce the amount of >> salt in the brine. If so, what's the minimum salt that I can get away >> with? >> >> And can any or all of the sugar be replaced by Splenda? I'm just not sure >> what the various ingredients contribute to the process. TIA >> > >Some things just have to be. Don't screw up a time tested process with >Splenda and reduce the salt to risk improper curing that can put your health >at risk. These numbers are not guesses, they are centuries old procedures. > >Very little of the sugar will end up in the meat. Splenda is an unknown >chemical (in this process) yet and I'd not risk it in curing meats. Same >with the salt. Only the amount needed will be absorbed and retained after a >soak and rinse. Less will not cure properly during those 8 to 12 days. >Improperly cure meat can go bad. It is not there just for flavor, it is to >preserve the meat from spoilage. Thank you! I don't know what the chemical processes involved in brining meat are. I'll stick with the original recipe. :) Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:43:00 GMT, "kilikini"
> wrote: >Darn it, Damsel, this was a FINE question to ask the former Mr. Jack Curry >(me he rest in peace) because he did a fine Corned Beef and a fine Pastrami. >We were always asking his advice in that department. <Damsel removes her hat and looks at the ground> >But yes, I would agree >with Ed P. that I wouldn't use splenda due to it's chemical make up. >Remember, the meat sits for about a week or so. Without the proper brine >ingredients, you may end up with a hunk of bad meat. I'd just go with the >sugar and deal with it. Usually, you want to soak the meat in clear water >for a day or two after the brine anyway, which removes a great deal of the >salt and or sugar. Otherwise it will be way too salty. Yeah, I'm just not able to handle much salt these days. Thanks! Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:55:51 GMT, The Joneses > wrote:
>Ditto what the others said. I've used a lot of splenda in preserved pickles & >jams. IMHO, in pickles the amount of salt needs to be reduced to provide the >right "balance" of flavors. Reducing the salt & sugar both might deter >preservation. Thanks, Edrena. I'm going to stick with the original recipe. The round roasts will make beautiful, lean slices for Reubens. Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
"kalanamak" > wrote in message > If you are corning it to keep it, I'm not sure, but if you are corning > it to put in something like NEBD, you can get away with ALOT less, as it > isn't a preservative. My mother, not in the perserved meat school (she > thought it unhealthy), used un-corned beef, same cut, for NEBD and I > remember licking the plate AND eating every nibble of the cabbage, the > only way I could stand it as a child. > blacksalt That makes it just a brisket (or round, etc) . Nothing wrong with doing it that way, just a little different. Corning was used as a method of preserving before refrigeration. Many good recipes with using non-corned, but soaking in a water solution sitting it in the fridge for 8 to 12 days with no salt is a potential problem. The nitrates and nitrites is what gives it the red color. Otherwise it is gray when cooked. |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:17:52 -0800, kalanamak > wrote:
>Are you doing this to have corned beef for a sandwich, or are you going >to put it in a recipe like New England Boiled Dinner? >If you are corning it to keep it, I'm not sure, but if you are corning >it to put in something like NEBD, you can get away with ALOT less, as it >isn't a preservative. My mother, not in the perserved meat school (she >thought it unhealthy), used un-corned beef, same cut, for NEBD and I >remember licking the plate AND eating every nibble of the cabbage, the >only way I could stand it as a child. Nope, I won't be boiling it. I always dry roast my corned beef for a long, long time at a low temperature. I'm planning on making this for Reuben sandwiches. We have a meat slicer, and will slice it thinly and store it in Zip-Lock bags in the freezer. Thanks, Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
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On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:12:59 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>That makes it just a brisket (or round, etc) . Nothing wrong with doing it >that way, just a little different. Corning was used as a method of >preserving before refrigeration. Many good recipes with using non-corned, >but soaking in a water solution sitting it in the fridge for 8 to 12 days >with no salt is a potential problem. The nitrates and nitrites is what gives >it the red color. Otherwise it is gray when cooked. Well, that should prove interesting. LOL! Gray Reubens. I didn't know that Reuben was that old. Thanks, Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
Damsel in dis Dress wrote: > On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:17:52 -0800, kalanamak > wrote: > > >Are you doing this to have corned beef for a sandwich, or are you going > >to put it in a recipe like New England Boiled Dinner? > >If you are corning it to keep it, I'm not sure, but if you are corning > >it to put in something like NEBD, you can get away with ALOT less, as it > >isn't a preservative. My mother, not in the perserved meat school (she > >thought it unhealthy), used un-corned beef, same cut, for NEBD and I > >remember licking the plate AND eating every nibble of the cabbage, the > >only way I could stand it as a child. > > Nope, I won't be boiling it. I always dry roast my corned beef for a long, > long time at a low temperature. Without first boiling corned beef it will be salty, in fact the longer it's roasted the more concentrated the salt. Corn beef should always be simmered prior to any other cooking method and the water discarded to remove excess salts. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with my method as in the RFC Cook Book. |
On 6 Feb 2005 12:53:36 -0800, "Sheldon" > wrote:
>Without first boiling corned beef it will be salty, in fact the longer >it's roasted the more concentrated the salt. Corn beef should always >be simmered prior to any other cooking method and the water discarded >to remove excess salts. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with >my method as in the RFC Cook Book. I'll have to look it up on Google. I still have yet to find my copies of THE cookbook since the move. That does sound like a good idea. I'm not crazy about boiled corned beef, but I'm not adverse to leaching some of the salt out prior to roasting. Thanks, kiddo! Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
>>No nitrates or nitrites? What kinda corned beef is MasterCook trying to get
>us >>to accept? > >You're being facetious, right? Not this time. I've corned pork shoulders with NaCl and no other salt (although with vinegar), but corning beef without at least three salts is shortchanging a great tradition. Wouldn't think of stiffing New England Boiled Dinner without the other two. They just add too much that I won't go without. Neil |
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In article >,
Damsel in dis Dress > wrote: --snippage-- > Mine will be for Reuben sandwiches (open-faced per Nancy Young). Every legitimate Reuben recipe I've ever seen calls for pastrami, not corned beef. The flavor is not the same. And BTW, my uncle the professional chef thought it was an abomination to put any kind of salad dressing on them -- pastrami. swiss cheese, sauerkraut, on rye, grilled in butter; that's all. Isaac |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:46:59 -0800, Isaac Wingfield >
wrote: >Every legitimate Reuben recipe I've ever seen calls for pastrami, not >corned beef. The flavor is not the same. I've never heard of that!! >And BTW, my uncle the professional chef thought it was an abomination to >put any kind of salad dressing on them -- pastrami. swiss cheese, >sauerkraut, on rye, grilled in butter; that's all. Your uncle is a wise man. Carol -- "Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say, 'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_ |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:50:52 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress quoth:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:46:59 -0800, Isaac Wingfield > > wrote: > >>And BTW, my uncle the professional chef thought it was an abomination to >>put any kind of salad dressing on them -- pastrami. swiss cheese, >>sauerkraut, on rye, grilled in butter; that's all. > > Your uncle is a wise man. Wise and tasteful. Even better, get rid of the butter as well. bkr |
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:46:59 -0800, Isaac Wingfield > > wrote: > > >>Every legitimate Reuben recipe I've ever seen calls for pastrami, not >>corned beef. The flavor is not the same. > > > I've never heard of that!! > > >>And BTW, my uncle the professional chef thought it was an abomination to >>put any kind of salad dressing on them -- pastrami. swiss cheese, >>sauerkraut, on rye, grilled in butter; that's all. > > > Your uncle is a wise man. > > Carol Skip the kraut. Heat the pastrami and swiss on a griddle while grilling some onions, toss it on a good roll with whole grain mustard. Yum. (And yes, I know that's *not* a reuben) I've tried 'em and just don't care for them. <shrug> -- Steve Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with excellence. |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:09:03 -0500, Steve Calvin quoth:
> > Skip the kraut. Heat the pastrami and swiss on a griddle while grilling > some onions, toss it on a good roll with whole grain mustard. Yum. (And > yes, I know that's *not* a reuben) I've tried 'em and just don't care > for them. <shrug> Blasphemy! The "kraut" is the good part! bkr |
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