(Alex Rast) wrote in message >...
> at Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:26:20 GMT in
> >, (Nancree)
> wrote :
>
> >Most peanut butters that are in supermarkets don't have oil rising to
> >the top--they are of one consistency. This means that they have
> >"Hydrogenated fat", which is very bad for your health--like butter, or
> >beef fat.
> >
> Some research suggests that it's in fact *worse* than either butter or beef
> fat. However, I believe that whatever the merits of the fat involved, the
> bigger factor is proportion and moderation. No doubt if you lived in
> reasonably temperate latitudes and ate virtually nothing but hard,
> saturated fat (of any kind), you'd be setting yourself up for heart
> disease. But if your fat intake were in moderation (say, 20-30% of
> calories) and you distributed the types of fats you ate relatively evenly
> between polyunsaturated (e.g. sunflower oil), monounsaturated (e.g. olive
> oil) and saturated (e.g. lard) fats, I don't think there's any real harm in
> the saturated fat intake.

I thought so, too, when I first heard about hydrogenated fat being an
issue some years ago. Then two strands of research came to my
attention. First of all, my older son has peculiar neurological and
developmental issues that have been treated successfully in England by
restricting trans fats and supplementing with the good fats (Omega 3s
and 6s I believe, in correct proportions). Kids with ADD, ADHD,
Dyslexia, dyspraxia, and apraxia of speech have all had great results
with altering their diets in this fashion. Certainly our kid has been
making much better progress than the specialists predicted in the
three years since we put him on "fish oil." (Not exactly what the
supplement is, but mostly) I didn't immediately restrict the
hydrogenated fats, because the literature I read said that the
supplements would take care of much of the harm caused by the trans
fats.

Then the recent research on trans fats came out. What I remember is
the recommendation saying "there's no safe amount of trans fat" in the
diet. I also remember some article saying 4-6 grams of it is really
too much per day, especially for a child. We eat sandwich bread with
no trans fats, and limit snacky items that have been pre-processed.
I'd rather feed my kids bread, butter and jam for a snack than some of
the puddings, cookies and other horrors developed for kids.

The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
are hydrogenated.

I threw the jar out.

I'm not hyper picky about what the kids eat, in general, but a whole
jar of PB with hydrogenated fat (listed on the label) just seemed like
not worth the damage.

If your kid has any learning issues, speech disorder, or attention
deficit, do yourself a favor and read "The LCP Solution" by a
nutritionist in England. The Brits are doing more research than we are
on this issue, although parents and doctors are calling for trials in
this country. I'm not saying this is your magic bullet, I just suggest
you look into it.

Leila
(ducking for cover)

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (WardNA) wrote:
>
> > That wasn't true of Skippy when I sampled it two years ago. However,
formulas
> > change (perhaps even geographically), and I'll examine the label again.
>
> Skippy contains some sugar
>
> <http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp#ingredients>
>

It is not listed on the label on my tub of Skippy.

Charlie

In article k.net>, "Charles Gifford" > wrote:
>
>"Scott" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> (WardNA) wrote:
>>
>> > That wasn't true of Skippy when I sampled it two years ago. However,
>formulas
>> > change (perhaps even geographically), and I'll examine the label again.
>>
>> Skippy contains some sugar
>>
>> <http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp#ingredients>
>>
>
>It is not listed on the label on my tub of Skippy.
>
It probably *is* listed, but in disguise. Look for things like corn syrup or
molasses.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

"Leila A." > wrote in message
om...

<snip>
> If your kid has any learning issues, speech disorder, or attention
> deficit, do yourself a favor and read "The LCP Solution" by a
> nutritionist in England. The Brits are doing more research than we are
> on this issue, although parents and doctors are calling for trials in
> this country. I'm not saying this is your magic bullet, I just suggest
> you look into it.
>
> Leila
> (ducking for cover)

Say it isn't so! Is this really the Tabbouli Princess? And you're hiding
already? You should show yourself more often so we can bask in your royal
ways! :-)

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
om...
> In article k.net>,
"Charles Gifford" > wrote:
> >
> >"Scott" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> In article >,
> >> (WardNA) wrote:
> >>
> >> > That wasn't true of Skippy when I sampled it two years ago. However,
> >formulas
> >> > change (perhaps even geographically), and I'll examine the label
again.
> >>
> >> Skippy contains some sugar
> >>
> >> <http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp#ingredients>
> >>
> >
> >It is not listed on the label on my tub of Skippy.
> >
> It probably *is* listed, but in disguise. Look for things like corn syrup
or
> molasses.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Nope. No disguise. It is listed as "sugar". Damned thing snuck up on me. It
is listed second just after roasted peanuts. That'll teach me to wear my
glasses when reading labels!

Charlie, embarrassed

In article >,
(Leila A.) wrote:

> The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
> than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
> the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
> label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
> on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
> polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
> butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
> so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
> are hydrogenated.

Go by the ingredients, also. There are supermarket brands without
partially hydrogenated fats added.
Don't forget, there're also monounsaturated fats; peanut butter should
contain something like 75-80% mono- and polyunsaturated fats. If you did
your calculation with a peanut butter that just contained peanuts and
salt, you'd come up with a big number for non-saturated fats, none of
which should (naturally) be trans-fats.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

Leila A. wrote:

> The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
> than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
> the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
> label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
> on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
> polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
> butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
> so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
> are hydrogenated.
>
> I threw the jar out.
>
[snip]
>
> Leila
> (ducking for cover)

I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.

The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
referenced previously in this thread states:

"Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.

Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
which states in part:

"Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans fat
per serving."

So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.

It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
butter in the average american diet.

Peggy

Peggy Sullivan wrote:

> Leila A. wrote:
>
>> The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
>> than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
>> the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
>> label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
>> on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
>> polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
>> butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
>> so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
>> are hydrogenated.
>>
>> I threw the jar out.
>>
> [snip]
>
>>
>> Leila
>> (ducking for cover)
>
>
> I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
> total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
> peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
> of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.
>
> The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
> referenced previously in this thread states:
>
> "Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
> By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.
>
> Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
> 2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
> helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
> hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
> insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "
>
> I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
> about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
> http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
> which states in part:
>
> "Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
> 0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
> it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?
>
> A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
> less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
> a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
> the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
> hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
> means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans
> fat
> per serving."
>
> So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
> I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.
>
> It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
> that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
> is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
> margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
> butter in the average american diet.
>
> Peggy


Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
which will be "cis-".

So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.

Best regards,
Bob

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob >
wrote:
<snip>
>Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
>hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
>think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
>which will be "cis-".

trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
configuration.

Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html

>So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
>half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
>small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.

Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!

from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
****************
"Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.

The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
research at ARS’ Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
N.C.

To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
0.01 percent of the sample weight."
**************************


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
>>hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
>>think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
>>which will be "cis-".
>
>
> trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
> configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
> functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
> opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
> have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
> saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
> configuration.
>
> Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.
>
> http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html
>
>
>>So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
>>half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
>>small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.
>
>
> Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!
>
> from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
> ****************
> "Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
> fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
> basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.
>
> The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
> vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
> percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
> out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
> fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
> research at ARS’ Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
> N.C.
>
> To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
> peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
> analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
> prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
> detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
> 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
> **************************
>
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Thanks! When I was explaining it (wrongly) something didn't seem right,
cuz if the fat is completely saturated it will just be a chain of
single-bonds. So trans- fats would just be a problem in *partially*
hydrogenated oils.

I still prefer to grind up roasted salted peanuts without any sugar or
shortening added. Health food store bulk peanut butter doesn't have enough
salt.

Best regards,
Bob

Curly Sue wrote:
[snip]
> Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!
>
> from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
> ****************
> "Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
> fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
> basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.
>
> The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
> vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
> percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
> out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
> fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
> research at ARS’ Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
> N.C.
>
> To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
> peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
> analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
> prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
> detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
> 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
> **************************
>
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>
> Peggy

I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?

--
jmk in NC

jmk wrote:
> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>
>> Peggy
>
>
> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>
> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>
> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?
>

But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."

And reading the full article at the link Curly Sue provided, I found this
elaboration:

"That means that a 32-gram serving of any of the 11 brands could contain
from zero to a little over three-thousandths (0.0032) of a gram of trans
fats without being detected."

And in any case, I'm not sure my kids (who prefer Skippy or Jif to
natural peanut butter) would accept wine or coffee and jelly sandwiches
as a substitute -- although they might like chocolate and jelly ones.

Peggy

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>>
>>> Peggy
>>
>>
>>
>> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>>
>> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
>> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
>> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
>> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>>
>> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?
>>
>
> But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
> post I read:
>
> "The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
> with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."

About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.


--
jmk in NC

jmk wrote:

> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>
>> jmk wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>>>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>>>
>>>> Peggy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>>>
>>> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
>>> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
>>> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
>>> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>>>
>>> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?
>>>
>>
>> But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
>> post I read:
>>
>> "The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
>> with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
>
>
> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
> not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>
>

Who did you ask?

From the information in Sue's post and my post, it is *not* one gram
per serving, it is 1/100 of one percent of the sample size, which the
part of my post you cut out (or simple arithemtic) computes as .0032 grams
for a 32 gram serving (which seems to be the standard serving). An
18 oz jar of peanut butter contains about 16 of these 32 gram servings
for a total of about 5/100 of a gram of trans fats in the entire jar. So
one would need to eat 20 jars to injest one gram of trans fats. Moreover,
these numbers just represent the most that could be present without being
detected, in fact none was actually detected.

Here is the link to the page Sue found again:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

Check it out.

Peggy

On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> jmk wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>>>>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peggy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>>>>
>>>> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
>>>> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>>>>
>>>> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?
>>>>
>>>
>>> But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
>>> post I read:
>>>
>>> "The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
>>> with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
>>
>>
>>
>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>>
>>
>
> Who did you ask?

The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
that same day.



--
jmk in NC

On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> jmk wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> jmk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>>>>>>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peggy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>>>> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>>>> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
>>>>>> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans
>>>>>> fat?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly
>>>>> Sues
>>>>> post I read:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
>>>>> with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>>>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>>>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who did you ask?
>>
>>
>>
>> The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
>> that same day.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
> say.
>
> If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
> Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
> USDA that did the study described at:
>
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
>
> are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
> refer to the same results.
>
> Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
> hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
> according to the USDA study.
>
> Peggy

Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it means
"less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like natural peanut
butter and it is readily available so that is what I get. It was more a
curiosity thing that anything.

--
jmk in NC

jmk wrote:

> On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>
>> jmk wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>> jmk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
>>>>>> I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peggy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:
>>>>>
>>>>> They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>>> They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
>>>>> They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
>>>>> They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly
>>>> Sues
>>>> post I read:
>>>>
>>>> "The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
>>>> with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Who did you ask?
>
>
> The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
> that same day.
>
>
>

I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
say.

If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
USDA that did the study described at:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
refer to the same results.

Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
according to the USDA study.

Peggy

jmk wrote:

> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
> not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.

How does 2% = 1 gram. Is it 2% of the jar or 2% of the total fat?

regards,
Ben


--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

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On 3/4/2004 10:16 AM, ben wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>
>
> How does 2% = 1 gram. Is it 2% of the jar or 2% of the total fat?
>
> regards,
> Ben
>
>
I never said that 2% was one gram. I said that when I contacted the
company they said that Skippy contained .8 g of transfats per serving,
if I remember correctly. Since there is an alternative (peanut butter
without hydrogenated stuff) and I do think that transfats are probably
not a good thing, I don't eat it. That's just me though.

--
jmk in NC

zxcvbob > wrote in message >...
>
> It will eventually, even if refrigerated.

Not to mention that this type of peanut butter will not go rancid for
a LONG time, when kept UNrefrigerated, too. I believe six months or a
year. As if peanut butter stays around for that long.

Karen <not to mention, but I guess I mentioned it>

sd > wrote in message >...
> It helps if you store the jar upside down in the refrigerator, too.
> Some of the peanut butter mixes with the separated oil. I find it's
> easier to stir.

You mean before you refrigerate it, don't you?

When I buy peanut butter and before I open it, I keep it upside down.
This way the oil goes to the top (or the bottom of the jar, depending
on how you look at it). Then, stir it after the first time you open it
to mix in the oil, and refrigerate it. It shouldn't separate in the
frige.

Karen

zxcvbob > wrote in message >...
> When I was a kid, we discovered a Krogers that had a peanut grinder and
> they made their own fresh peanut butter from roasted red-skin peanuts. It
> was wonderful stuff, with a slightly gritty texture from the peanut skins.
> We did not refrigerate it, we just bought it in small batches and stirred
> it before we used it.

Kind of like mashing potatoes with the potato skins on! I like this
idea of peanut butter. What is a Krogers?

Karen

Miche > wrote in message >...
> She's right. I've seen peanut butter here in NZ with no separated oil
> on the top, and no added sugar.
>
> I can't think of a brand of peanut butter here which _has_ added sugar.

You may not have Skippy or Jif or other sweetened peanut butters but
you have a lot of Oscar winners.

:-)

Karen

owza (Jarkat2002) wrote in message >...
> If you don't want to stir it up and don't mind a dry peanut butter ... the oil
> is amazing to cook with!

Good idea!... Drain off a little of the oil for cooking before
stirring. Have a dry peanut butter in the end and then you can add
butter to your peanut butter which is very good on raisin English
muffins like I had this morning!.

Jif and Skippy must have crisco and sugar or something in it to make
it more of a confectionary?

Karen

>Jif and Skippy must have crisco and sugar or something in it to make
>it more of a confectionary?
>
>Karen
>
-----------------------------
Jiffy and Skippy peanut butter also have hydrogenated oils, which are the bad
stuff--that's what sticks in your arteries. A
high price to pay just to have pre-stirred peanut butter. Buy Laura Scudder,
or similar, with oil on top--and stir your own.

>I've seen peanut butter here in NZ with no separated oil
>> on the top, and no added sugar.
>>
>> I can't think of a brand of peanut butter here which _has_ added sugar.
>
>Karen
-----------------------------
Are you sure you have read the labels?

Peggy Sullivan > wrote in message >...
> Leila A. wrote:
>
> > The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
> > than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
> > the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
> > label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
> > on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
> > polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
> > butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
> > so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
> > are hydrogenated.
> >
> > I threw the jar out.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > Leila
> > (ducking for cover)
>
> I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
> total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
> peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
> of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.
>
> The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
> referenced previously in this thread states:
>
> "Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
> By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.
>
> Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
> 2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
> helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
> hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
> insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "
>
Thanks for doing such good research.

However, I wonder how they can say that the partially hydrogenated fat
is "almost totally saturated" and therefore "contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

What I understand is that partially hydrogenated fat is just not good
for you and I avoid it.

I agree that a small amount is not horrible. I don't believe Skippy's
numbers, however.

I'm hoping a better informed person (our in-house nutritionist?
Cindy?) will weigh in on this. Can a partially hydrogenated fat have
"no trans fat"???? Or are the food companies lying because they can?

The label on the supermarket brand PB my husband bought listed, in
this order: Peanuts, dextrose, hydrogenated vegetable oil, (then a
list of other stuff).

It's entirely possible that I overreacted by throwing out that jar.
OTOH, it cost about 3 bucks, maybe.

> I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
> about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
> http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
> which states in part:
>
> "Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
> 0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
> it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?
>
> A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
> less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
> a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
> the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
> hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
> means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans fat
> per serving."
>
> So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
> I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.
>
> It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
> that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
> is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
> margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
> butter in the average american diet.
>

You are probably right about that, Peggy. And we are therefore mostly
not eating same (although we're not totally strict about it)

Thanks for challenging this. I am not absolutely certain of the truth
on this one. Your research is impressive.

Leila

Yes, Ruth, it's me!!! I do lurk here at times

(Curly Sue) wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
> <snip>
> >Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
> >hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
> >think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
> >which will be "cis-".
>
> trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
> configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
> functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
> opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
> have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
> saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
> configuration.
>
> Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.
>
> http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html
>
> >So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
> >half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
> >small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.
>
> Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!
>
> from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
> ****************
> "Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
> fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
> basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.
>
> The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
> vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
> percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
> out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
> fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
> research at ARS? Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
> N.C.
>
> To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
> peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
> analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
> prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
> detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
> 0.01 percent of the sample weight."
> **************************
>
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!


Okay, I read the rest of the thread. The above study answers my
question although I really couldn't follow the diagram and all the
technical talk.

..01 percent of the sample weight of trans fat means I did overreact
when I calculated 13 grams of not-saturated fat, read the label, found
"Hydrogenated vegetable oil", and concluded that it was 13 grams of
trans fats per serving.

I made a $3 mistake. Oh well.

I'm glad we have such demon researchers on this NG.

I'm still buying my neighborhood grind PB 'cause the kids don't know
any different and it doesn't have added "dextrose".

Thanks again to Sue and Peggy. I'm relieved to know commercial PB
isn't as horrible as I'd thought.

Leila

Nancree > wrote:
> Do your children, and yourself, and buy a peanut butter

^ a favor

It might be good to just avoid giving children peanut butter.

Peanuts are one of the most pesticide-contaminated crops.
-- http://www.mercola.com/2003/aug/20/peanuts_health.htm

Fresh ground peanut butter has the highest amounts of aflotoxins, while
big supermarket brands have the lowest amounts.
-- http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...stionId=115491

Lectins found in peanut oil have been implicated in atherosclerosis.
-- http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

Ben
--
Never wear your best pants when you go to fight for freedom.

In article >, (Karen O'Mara) wrote:
>zxcvbob > wrote in message
> >...
>> When I was a kid, we discovered a Krogers that had a peanut grinder and
>> they made their own fresh peanut butter from roasted red-skin peanuts. It
>> was wonderful stuff, with a slightly gritty texture from the peanut skins.
>> We did not refrigerate it, we just bought it in small batches and stirred
>> it before we used it.
>
>Kind of like mashing potatoes with the potato skins on! I like this
>idea of peanut butter. What is a Krogers?
>
Supermarket chain based in Cincinnati. The Kroger name is used mostly in the
Midwest and the South, but they operate stores under other names in much of
the rest of the US. Don't know if the selections would be the same, though.

http://www.kroger.com/operations_grocery_locations.htm

In article >, (Leila A.) wrote:
>>
>Thanks for doing such good research.
>
>However, I wonder how they can say that the partially hydrogenated fat
>is "almost totally saturated" and therefore "contains only an
>insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

Trans fats are not saturated.
>
>What I understand is that partially hydrogenated fat is just not good
>for you and I avoid it.

It's probably not as bad for you as fully hydrogenated fat (same as
saturated).
>
[snip]
>
>The label on the supermarket brand PB my husband bought listed, in
>this order: Peanuts, dextrose, hydrogenated vegetable oil, (then a
>list of other stuff).
>
>It's entirely possible that I overreacted by throwing out that jar.
>OTOH, it cost about 3 bucks, maybe.

Yes, you overreacted -- it's not like he brought home a jar of rat poison
labelled as peanut butter, after all. Just the same, though, I figure if I
want peanut butter, I should buy peanut butter, and if I want sugar and
vegetable oil in it, I can put them there myself.

jmk wrote:

> On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>> jmk wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>> jmk wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>>> jmk wrote [about the amount of transfats in one serving of Skippy]
>>>>>>
>>>>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>>>>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>>>>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>>>>>
>>>> Who did you ask?
>>>
>>> The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone
>>> message that same day.
>>>
>>
>> I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
>> say.
>>
>> If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
>> Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
>> USDA that did the study described at:
>>
>> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
>>
>> are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
>> refer to the same results.
>>
>> Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
>> hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
>> according to the USDA study.
>>
>> Peggy
>
>
> Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it means
> "less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like natural peanut
> butter and it is readily available so that is what I get. It was more a
> curiosity thing that anything.
>

As I said above, I emailed them also, and finally got a reply, copied
below, that does not support your .8 g figure, but instead refers
to the work described at the USDA site mentioned above. The numbers
in that work imply that you would need to consume 20 or more 18 oz
jars of Skippy to ingest one gram of trans fats. So as I said earlier,
trans fats are not the reason to avoid Skippy, although taste preferences
or the sugar content may be.

Here is the email I got from Skippy:

> Hi Peggy,
>
> Thanks so much for writing!
>
> A recent evaluation of commercial peanut butter, including Skippy,
> conducted by the United States Department of Agriculture confirms that
> only trace amounts of "trans fats" were found, significantly below the
> minimum level proposed for labeling. By FDA definition, Skippy peanut
> butter is a trans-fat free food.
>
> Here are some additional facts:
>
> -The fat must be labeled "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" per FDA
> regulations. It does not have the same structure as most partially
> hydrogenated fats that do contribute "trans fats"
> -Only a small amount of stabilizer is used to prevent oil separation on a
> serving size basis.
> -The same level of "trans fats" was found in peanut butter that does not
> contain stabilizers (natural) and traditional peanut butter.
> -Trans Fatty Acids occur naturally in meat and dairy products. TFA's are
> produced during the hydrogenations of vegetable oil, a process that adds
> hydrogen to unsaturated fatty acids in vegetable oil in order to change
> the fat from a liquid to a solid state.
>
> How can peanut butter be categorized as having no trans fat if it contains
> partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?
>
> -A study by Dr. Tim Sanders of USDA/ARS revealed that the level of trans
> fat in 6 samples of regular peanut butter (less than 0.001 g trans fat per
> 1 oz. serving) is well below the proposed FDA cut off of less than 0.5
> grams for labeling a product as "zero grams trans fat."
>
> Thanks for your interest!
> Your friends at Skippy

On 3/11/2004 2:55 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> jmk wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> jmk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> jmk wrote [about the amount of transfats in one serving of Skippy]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
>>>>>> something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
>>>>>> It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Who did you ask?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone
>>>> message that same day.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
>>> say.
>>>
>>> If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
>>> Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
>>> USDA that did the study described at:
>>>
>>> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
>>>
>>> are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
>>> refer to the same results.
>>>
>>> Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
>>> hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
>>> according to the USDA study.
>>>
>>> Peggy
>>
>>
>>
>> Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it
>> means "less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like
>> natural peanut butter and it is readily available so that is what I
>> get. It was more a curiosity thing that anything.
>>
>
> As I said above, I emailed them also, and finally got a reply, copied
> below, that does not support your .8 g figure, but instead refers
> to the work described at the USDA site mentioned above. The numbers
> in that work imply that you would need to consume 20 or more 18 oz
> jars of Skippy to ingest one gram of trans fats. So as I said earlier,
> trans fats are not the reason to avoid Skippy, although taste preferences
> or the sugar content may be.
>
> Here is the email I got from Skippy:
>
>> Hi Peggy,
>>
>> Thanks so much for writing!
>>
>> A recent evaluation of commercial peanut butter, including Skippy,
>> conducted by the United States Department of Agriculture confirms that
>> only trace amounts of "trans fats" were found, significantly below the
>> minimum level proposed for labeling. By FDA definition, Skippy peanut
>> butter is a trans-fat free food.
>>
>> Here are some additional facts:
>>
>> -The fat must be labeled "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" per FDA
>> regulations. It does not have the same structure as most partially
>> hydrogenated fats that do contribute "trans fats"
>> -Only a small amount of stabilizer is used to prevent oil separation on a
>> serving size basis.
>> -The same level of "trans fats" was found in peanut butter that does not
>> contain stabilizers (natural) and traditional peanut butter.
>> -Trans Fatty Acids occur naturally in meat and dairy products. TFA's are
>> produced during the hydrogenations of vegetable oil, a process that adds
>> hydrogen to unsaturated fatty acids in vegetable oil in order to change
>> the fat from a liquid to a solid state.
>>
>> How can peanut butter be categorized as having no trans fat if it
>> contains
>> partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?
>>
>> -A study by Dr. Tim Sanders of USDA/ARS revealed that the level of trans
>> fat in 6 samples of regular peanut butter (less than 0.001 g trans fat
>> per
>> 1 oz. serving) is well below the proposed FDA cut off of less than 0.5
>> grams for labeling a product as "zero grams trans fat."
>>
>> Thanks for your interest!
>> Your friends at Skippy

Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they changed
their PR on transfats after this study was published.

--
jmk in NC

jmk wrote:

>
> Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they changed
> their PR on transfats after this study was published.
>

I'm confused again. When did you get your information? The study is
not new and matches the info on their web page, so I don't see a change.

Peggy

owza (Jarkat2002) wrote in message >...
>
> If you don't want to stir it up and don't mind a dry peanut butter ... the oil
> is amazing to cook with!
> ~Kat

I'm having a "DUH!" moment! We buy Trader Joe's peanut butter - which
is way too runny if you stir the oil in - and have instead been
pouring the oil down the drain. What a waste! From now on, I'm
reserving it for cooking. Thank you so much for suggesting it!
- Chris
---
http://www.sudairy.com/

On 3/11/2004 3:58 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they
>> changed their PR on transfats after this study was published.
>>
>
> I'm confused again. When did you get your information? The study is
> not new and matches the info on their web page, so I don't see a change.

I contacted them via their website a few months ago. Despite the fact
that I asked for an e-mail response, I received a message on my
answering machine. I don't have the exact date, sorry.

--
jmk in NC

On 3/11/2004 3:58 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
> jmk wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they
>> changed their PR on transfats after this study was published.
>>
>
> I'm confused again. When did you get your information? The study is
> not new and matches the info on their web page, so I don't see a change.

I contacted them via their website a few months ago. Despite the fact
that I asked for an e-mail response, I received a message on my
answering machine. I don't have the exact date, sorry.

--
jmk in NC