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Karen O'Mara 04-03-2004 11:50 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
zxcvbob wrote in message ...

It will eventually, even if refrigerated.


Not to mention that this type of peanut butter will not go rancid for
a LONG time, when kept UNrefrigerated, too. I believe six months or a
year. As if peanut butter stays around for that long.

Karen not to mention, but I guess I mentioned it

Karen O'Mara 04-03-2004 11:53 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
sd wrote in message ...
It helps if you store the jar upside down in the refrigerator, too.
Some of the peanut butter mixes with the separated oil. I find it's
easier to stir.


You mean before you refrigerate it, don't you?

When I buy peanut butter and before I open it, I keep it upside down.
This way the oil goes to the top (or the bottom of the jar, depending
on how you look at it). Then, stir it after the first time you open it
to mix in the oil, and refrigerate it. It shouldn't separate in the
frige.

Karen

Karen O'Mara 04-03-2004 11:55 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
zxcvbob wrote in message ...
When I was a kid, we discovered a Krogers that had a peanut grinder and
they made their own fresh peanut butter from roasted red-skin peanuts. It
was wonderful stuff, with a slightly gritty texture from the peanut skins.
We did not refrigerate it, we just bought it in small batches and stirred
it before we used it.


Kind of like mashing potatoes with the potato skins on! I like this
idea of peanut butter. What is a Krogers?

Karen

Karen O'Mara 04-03-2004 11:57 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
Miche wrote in message ...
She's right. I've seen peanut butter here in NZ with no separated oil
on the top, and no added sugar.

I can't think of a brand of peanut butter here which _has_ added sugar.


You may not have Skippy or Jif or other sweetened peanut butters but
you have a lot of Oscar winners.

:-)

Karen

Karen O'Mara 05-03-2004 12:02 AM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
owza (Jarkat2002) wrote in message ...
If you don't want to stir it up and don't mind a dry peanut butter ... the oil
is amazing to cook with!


Good idea!... Drain off a little of the oil for cooking before
stirring. Have a dry peanut butter in the end and then you can add
butter to your peanut butter which is very good on raisin English
muffins like I had this morning!.

Jif and Skippy must have crisco and sugar or something in it to make
it more of a confectionary?

Karen

Nancree 05-03-2004 01:00 AM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
Jif and Skippy must have crisco and sugar or something in it to make
it more of a confectionary?

Karen

-----------------------------
Jiffy and Skippy peanut butter also have hydrogenated oils, which are the bad
stuff--that's what sticks in your arteries. A
high price to pay just to have pre-stirred peanut butter. Buy Laura Scudder,
or similar, with oil on top--and stir your own.


Nancree 05-03-2004 01:03 AM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
I've seen peanut butter here in NZ with no separated oil
on the top, and no added sugar.

I can't think of a brand of peanut butter here which _has_ added sugar.


Karen

-----------------------------
Are you sure you have read the labels?








Leila A. 05-03-2004 06:44 AM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
Peggy Sullivan wrote in message ...
Leila A. wrote:

The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
are hydrogenated.

I threw the jar out.

[snip]

Leila
(ducking for cover)


I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.

The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
referenced previously in this thread states:

"Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.

Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

Thanks for doing such good research.

However, I wonder how they can say that the partially hydrogenated fat
is "almost totally saturated" and therefore "contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

What I understand is that partially hydrogenated fat is just not good
for you and I avoid it.

I agree that a small amount is not horrible. I don't believe Skippy's
numbers, however.

I'm hoping a better informed person (our in-house nutritionist?
Cindy?) will weigh in on this. Can a partially hydrogenated fat have
"no trans fat"???? Or are the food companies lying because they can?

The label on the supermarket brand PB my husband bought listed, in
this order: Peanuts, dextrose, hydrogenated vegetable oil, (then a
list of other stuff).

It's entirely possible that I overreacted by throwing out that jar.
OTOH, it cost about 3 bucks, maybe.

I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
which states in part:

"Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans fat
per serving."

So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.

It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
butter in the average american diet.


You are probably right about that, Peggy. And we are therefore mostly
not eating same (although we're not totally strict about it)

Thanks for challenging this. I am not absolutely certain of the truth
on this one. Your research is impressive.

Leila

Yes, Ruth, it's me!!! I do lurk here at times

Leila A. 05-03-2004 07:01 AM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
(Curly Sue) wrote in message ...
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob
wrote:
snip
Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
which will be "cis-".


trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
configuration.

Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html

So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.


Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!

from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
****************
"Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.

The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
research at ARS? Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
N.C.

To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
0.01 percent of the sample weight."
**************************


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!



Okay, I read the rest of the thread. The above study answers my
question although I really couldn't follow the diagram and all the
technical talk.

..01 percent of the sample weight of trans fat means I did overreact
when I calculated 13 grams of not-saturated fat, read the label, found
"Hydrogenated vegetable oil", and concluded that it was 13 grams of
trans fats per serving.

I made a $3 mistake. Oh well.

I'm glad we have such demon researchers on this NG.

I'm still buying my neighborhood grind PB 'cause the kids don't know
any different and it doesn't have added "dextrose".

Thanks again to Sue and Peggy. I'm relieved to know commercial PB
isn't as horrible as I'd thought.

Leila

[email protected] 05-03-2004 03:35 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
Nancree wrote:
Do your children, and yourself, and buy a peanut butter


^ a favor

It might be good to just avoid giving children peanut butter.

Peanuts are one of the most pesticide-contaminated crops.
-- http://www.mercola.com/2003/aug/20/peanuts_health.htm

Fresh ground peanut butter has the highest amounts of aflotoxins, while
big supermarket brands have the lowest amounts.
-- http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...stionId=115491

Lectins found in peanut oil have been implicated in atherosclerosis.
-- http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

Ben
--
Never wear your best pants when you go to fight for freedom.

Doug Miller 05-03-2004 04:09 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
In article , (Karen O'Mara) wrote:
zxcvbob wrote in message
...
When I was a kid, we discovered a Krogers that had a peanut grinder and
they made their own fresh peanut butter from roasted red-skin peanuts. It
was wonderful stuff, with a slightly gritty texture from the peanut skins.
We did not refrigerate it, we just bought it in small batches and stirred
it before we used it.


Kind of like mashing potatoes with the potato skins on! I like this
idea of peanut butter. What is a Krogers?

Supermarket chain based in Cincinnati. The Kroger name is used mostly in the
Midwest and the South, but they operate stores under other names in much of
the rest of the US. Don't know if the selections would be the same, though.

http://www.kroger.com/operations_grocery_locations.htm

Doug Miller 05-03-2004 04:13 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
In article , (Leila A.) wrote:

Thanks for doing such good research.

However, I wonder how they can say that the partially hydrogenated fat
is "almost totally saturated" and therefore "contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "


Trans fats are not saturated.

What I understand is that partially hydrogenated fat is just not good
for you and I avoid it.


It's probably not as bad for you as fully hydrogenated fat (same as
saturated).

[snip]

The label on the supermarket brand PB my husband bought listed, in
this order: Peanuts, dextrose, hydrogenated vegetable oil, (then a
list of other stuff).

It's entirely possible that I overreacted by throwing out that jar.
OTOH, it cost about 3 bucks, maybe.


Yes, you overreacted -- it's not like he brought home a jar of rat poison
labelled as peanut butter, after all. Just the same, though, I figure if I
want peanut butter, I should buy peanut butter, and if I want sugar and
vegetable oil in it, I can put them there myself.

Peggy Sullivan 11-03-2004 07:55 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:
On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:
On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote [about the amount of transfats in one serving of Skippy]

About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.

Who did you ask?

The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone
message that same day.


I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
say.

If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
USDA that did the study described at:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
refer to the same results.

Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
according to the USDA study.

Peggy



Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it means
"less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like natural peanut
butter and it is readily available so that is what I get. It was more a
curiosity thing that anything.


As I said above, I emailed them also, and finally got a reply, copied
below, that does not support your .8 g figure, but instead refers
to the work described at the USDA site mentioned above. The numbers
in that work imply that you would need to consume 20 or more 18 oz
jars of Skippy to ingest one gram of trans fats. So as I said earlier,
trans fats are not the reason to avoid Skippy, although taste preferences
or the sugar content may be.

Here is the email I got from Skippy:

Hi Peggy,

Thanks so much for writing!

A recent evaluation of commercial peanut butter, including Skippy,
conducted by the United States Department of Agriculture confirms that
only trace amounts of "trans fats" were found, significantly below the
minimum level proposed for labeling. By FDA definition, Skippy peanut
butter is a trans-fat free food.

Here are some additional facts:

-The fat must be labeled "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" per FDA
regulations. It does not have the same structure as most partially
hydrogenated fats that do contribute "trans fats"
-Only a small amount of stabilizer is used to prevent oil separation on a
serving size basis.
-The same level of "trans fats" was found in peanut butter that does not
contain stabilizers (natural) and traditional peanut butter.
-Trans Fatty Acids occur naturally in meat and dairy products. TFA's are
produced during the hydrogenations of vegetable oil, a process that adds
hydrogen to unsaturated fatty acids in vegetable oil in order to change
the fat from a liquid to a solid state.

How can peanut butter be categorized as having no trans fat if it contains
partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

-A study by Dr. Tim Sanders of USDA/ARS revealed that the level of trans
fat in 6 samples of regular peanut butter (less than 0.001 g trans fat per
1 oz. serving) is well below the proposed FDA cut off of less than 0.5
grams for labeling a product as "zero grams trans fat."

Thanks for your interest!
Your friends at Skippy




jmk 11-03-2004 07:58 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
On 3/11/2004 2:55 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote [about the amount of transfats in one serving of Skippy]

About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.

Who did you ask?


The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone
message that same day.


I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
say.

If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
USDA that did the study described at:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
refer to the same results.

Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
according to the USDA study.

Peggy




Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it
means "less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like
natural peanut butter and it is readily available so that is what I
get. It was more a curiosity thing that anything.


As I said above, I emailed them also, and finally got a reply, copied
below, that does not support your .8 g figure, but instead refers
to the work described at the USDA site mentioned above. The numbers
in that work imply that you would need to consume 20 or more 18 oz
jars of Skippy to ingest one gram of trans fats. So as I said earlier,
trans fats are not the reason to avoid Skippy, although taste preferences
or the sugar content may be.

Here is the email I got from Skippy:

Hi Peggy,

Thanks so much for writing!

A recent evaluation of commercial peanut butter, including Skippy,
conducted by the United States Department of Agriculture confirms that
only trace amounts of "trans fats" were found, significantly below the
minimum level proposed for labeling. By FDA definition, Skippy peanut
butter is a trans-fat free food.

Here are some additional facts:

-The fat must be labeled "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" per FDA
regulations. It does not have the same structure as most partially
hydrogenated fats that do contribute "trans fats"
-Only a small amount of stabilizer is used to prevent oil separation on a
serving size basis.
-The same level of "trans fats" was found in peanut butter that does not
contain stabilizers (natural) and traditional peanut butter.
-Trans Fatty Acids occur naturally in meat and dairy products. TFA's are
produced during the hydrogenations of vegetable oil, a process that adds
hydrogen to unsaturated fatty acids in vegetable oil in order to change
the fat from a liquid to a solid state.

How can peanut butter be categorized as having no trans fat if it
contains
partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

-A study by Dr. Tim Sanders of USDA/ARS revealed that the level of trans
fat in 6 samples of regular peanut butter (less than 0.001 g trans fat
per
1 oz. serving) is well below the proposed FDA cut off of less than 0.5
grams for labeling a product as "zero grams trans fat."

Thanks for your interest!
Your friends at Skippy


Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they changed
their PR on transfats after this study was published.

--
jmk in NC

Peggy Sullivan 11-03-2004 08:58 PM

Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter
 
jmk wrote:


Thanks for sharing. I find it to be very interesting that they changed
their PR on transfats after this study was published.


I'm confused again. When did you get your information? The study is
not new and matches the info on their web page, so I don't see a change.

Peggy


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