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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
 
Posts: n/a
Default A disappointing week

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> || Roger Zoul wrote:
> ||
> ||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> |||||
> ||||| The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to eat
> ||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
> ||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to be the
> ||||| key to permanent weight loss.
> |||||
> ||||| This data has been publicly presented:
> |||||
> ||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
> |||
> ||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your data?
> ||
> || If you have read the above, you have already seen the data. It is
> || written plainly enough.
>
> I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude that there is no
> data.
>


Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able to wish
it away.



> ||
> || Again, the skinny on the 2PD Approach:
> ||
> || http://tinyurl.com/2p7ud
> ||


You remain informed. Such is the work that I am called to do.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Roger Zoul
 
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Default

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||||
|||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||||||
|||||||| The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to
|||||||| eat
|||||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
|||||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to be
|||||||| the
|||||||| key to permanent weight loss.
||||||||
|||||||| This data has been publicly presented:
||||||||
|||||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
||||||
|||||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your data?
|||||
||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data. It is
||||| written plainly enough.
|||
||| I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude that
||| there is no data.
|||
||
|| Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able to
|| wish
|| it away.

I didn't see any data. You're a PhD right, so you should know what data
are.


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
 
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Default

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> || Roger Zoul wrote:
> |||
> ||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> ||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
> |||||
> |||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> ||||||||
> |||||||| The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to
> |||||||| eat
> |||||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
> |||||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to be
> |||||||| the
> |||||||| key to permanent weight loss.
> ||||||||
> |||||||| This data has been publicly presented:
> ||||||||
> |||||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
> ||||||
> |||||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your data?
> |||||
> ||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data. It is
> ||||| written plainly enough.
> |||
> ||| I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude that
> ||| there is no data.
> |||
> ||
> || Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able to
> || wish
> || it away.
>
> I didn't see any data.


It seems you are blind.

> You're a PhD right, so you should know what data
> are.


I am a PhD, I do know what data are, and I see the data that you refuse
to see.


Such is the work that I have been called to do.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Roger Zoul
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
||||||
|||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|||||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|||||||||||
||||||||||| The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to
||||||||||| eat
||||||||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
||||||||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to
||||||||||| be the
||||||||||| key to permanent weight loss.
|||||||||||
||||||||||| This data has been publicly presented:
|||||||||||
||||||||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
|||||||||
||||||||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your
||||||||| data?
||||||||
|||||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
|||||||| It is written plainly enough.
||||||
|||||| I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude that
|||||| there is no data.
||||||
|||||
||||| Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able
||||| to wish
||||| it away.
|||
||| I didn't see any data.
||
|| It seems you are blind.
||
||| You're a PhD right, so you should know what data
||| are.
||
|| I am a PhD, I do know what data are, and I see the data that you
|| refuse to see.
||

There are no data at this site:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/twf/acius.pdf

and there are none in this post or the one I originally replied to, to which
you replied:

|||||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
|||||||| It is written plainly enough.

So, perhaps I have missed the data. If so, would you please be so kind as
to point me to it again so that I can be sure I am not simply missing it?
These replies can become convoluted. Thanks.




  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
 
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Default

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> || Roger Zoul wrote:
> |||
> ||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> ||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
> ||||||
> |||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> |||||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
> ||||||||
> ||||||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> |||||||||||
> ||||||||||| The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to
> ||||||||||| eat
> ||||||||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
> ||||||||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to
> ||||||||||| be the
> ||||||||||| key to permanent weight loss.
> |||||||||||
> ||||||||||| This data has been publicly presented:
> |||||||||||
> ||||||||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your
> ||||||||| data?
> ||||||||
> |||||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
> |||||||| It is written plainly enough.
> ||||||
> |||||| I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude that
> |||||| there is no data.
> ||||||
> |||||
> ||||| Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able
> ||||| to wish
> ||||| it away.
> |||
> ||| I didn't see any data.
> ||
> || It seems you are blind.
> ||
> ||| You're a PhD right, so you should know what data
> ||| are.
> ||
> || I am a PhD, I do know what data are, and I see the data that you
> || refuse to see.
> ||
>
> There are no data at this site:
>
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/twf/acius.pdf


This would be a PDF file and not a site. The same data was presented at
the meeting described by the PDF file as has been described here and
elsewhe

http://www.heartmdphd.com/press.asp

> and there are none in this post or the one I originally replied to, to which
> you replied:
>
> |||||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
> |||||||| It is written plainly enough.
>
> So, perhaps I have missed the data.


It seems that you have.

> If so, would you please be so kind as
> to point me to it again so that I can be sure I am not simply missing it?


Certainly. Reread the top of this post.

> These replies can become convoluted.


Such is the habit of the untruthful to obfuscate.

> Thanks.


You are welcome.

All praises belong to my heavenly Father, Whom I love with all my heart,
soul, mind, and strength :-)


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Roger Zoul
 
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Default

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::: Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::::
:::::: Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
:::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::::::
::::::::: Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
::::::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::::::::
:::::::::::: Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::: The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD
:::::::::::::: Approach to eat
:::::::::::::: less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you
:::::::::::::: are eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating"
:::::::::::::: appears to be the
:::::::::::::: key to permanent weight loss.
::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::: This data has been publicly presented:
::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::: http://tinyurl.com/3pard
::::::::::::
:::::::::::: Why not post your slides on your website so we can see your
:::::::::::: data?
:::::::::::
::::::::::: If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
::::::::::: It is written plainly enough.
:::::::::
::::::::: I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude
::::::::: that there is no data.
:::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are
:::::::: able to wish
:::::::: it away.
::::::
:::::: I didn't see any data.
:::::
::::: It seems you are blind.
:::::
:::::: You're a PhD right, so you should know what data
:::::: are.
:::::
::::: I am a PhD, I do know what data are, and I see the data that you
::::: refuse to see.
:::::
:::
::: There are no data at this site:
:::
::: http://www.heartmdphd.com/twf/acius.pdf
::
:: This would be a PDF file and not a site. The same data was
:: presented at the meeting described by the PDF file as has been
:: described here and elsewhe

I asked for data not descriptions of data. You said there was data on the
site but now you're saying that the data has only be described.


::
:: http://www.heartmdphd.com/press.asp
::
::: and there are none in this post or the one I originally replied to,
::: to which you replied:
:::
::::::::::: If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
::::::::::: It is written plainly enough.
:::
::: So, perhaps I have missed the data.
::
:: It seems that you have.

No, I have not. This statement is not data:

:::::::::::::: The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD
:::::::::::::: Approach to eat
:::::::::::::: less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you
:::::::::::::: are eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating"
:::::::::::::: appears to be the
:::::::::::::: key to permanent weight loss.


::
::: If so, would you please be so kind as
::: to point me to it again so that I can be sure I am not simply
::: missing it?
::
:: Certainly. Reread the top of this post.

Yeah.

::
::: These replies can become convoluted.
::
:: Such is the habit of the untruthful to obfuscate.
::

Exactly.

::: Thanks.
::
:: You are welcome.
::
:: All praises belong to my heavenly Father, Whom I love with all my
:: heart, soul, mind, and strength :-)
::
::
:: Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
::
:: Andrew
::
:: --
:: Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
:: Board-Certified Cardiologist
:: http://www.heartmdphd.com/
::
:: **
:: Who is the humblest person in the universe?
:: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
::
:: What is all this about?
:: http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48
::
:: Is this spam?
:: http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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The below is the answer to a longer exchange:

> Just because you do not like the data does not mean you are able
> ||||| to wish
> ||||| it away.


"Data" becomes what he forces it by definition to be. The data is in it's
entirety the word "everyone". I put the above first to show how when in a
corner Chung will try a rhetorical language trick, he injects his
personality into the discussion. In particular, his reaction to any thing
that speaks of judgement about him, in this case the quality of the
"research" and how it reflects very badly upon him and the image he wants
to project about himself. His personality has nothing to do with the
absense, save the "word", of the fact that data as used and at the level
of quality used in valid scienctific research is not there. Worst, his
"experiement" fails just about every principle of valid research in bio
101 class. Here is the longer exchange on which the above is based:


> The data is simple: *Everyone* who uses the 2PD Approach to
> ||||||||||| eat
> ||||||||||| less loses weight. The shift from "watching *what* you are
> ||||||||||| eating" to "watching *how much* you are eating" appears to
> ||||||||||| be the
> ||||||||||| key to permanent weight loss.
> |||||||||||
> ||||||||||| This data has been publicly presented:
> |||||||||||
> ||||||||||| http://tinyurl.com/3pard
> |||||||||
> ||||||||| Why not post your slides on your website so we can see

your
> ||||||||| data?
> ||||||||
> |||||||| If you have read the above, you have already seen the data.
> |||||||| It is written plainly enough.
> ||||||
> |||||| I read the link above and the text above. Thus, I conclude

that
> |||||| there is no data.

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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This is what causes folk to wonder when the "mr. hyde" shows up to attempt
a save of the "dr. jeckle" side of the daring duo. It is lousy science.
It would never be accepted for publication in any even simi peer reviewed
science publication.


>This is exactly what I am talking about when you deal with folks who do not
>have a research background yet want to argue about data. it's worthless and
>a waste of time.
>
>Zoul wants "data". Roger, data is nothing more than information and it can,
>or cannot, be tied to research. If it is tied to research, you're out of
>your league trying to interpolate it. What Andrew has provided is data in
>the term of info. He, as I am, are well aware of whether it is research
>oriented or not. He, not I, *can* investigate research, research
>methodologies, citations and the like.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
MU
 
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>::: http://www.heartmdphd.com/twf/acius.pdf
>::
>:: This would be a PDF file and not a site. The same data was
>:: presented at the meeting described by the PDF file as has been
>:: described here and elsewhe


On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:29:12 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:

> I asked for data not descriptions of data. You said there was data on the
> site but now you're saying that the data has only be described.


This is exactly what I am talking about when you deal with folks who do not
have a research background yet want to argue about data. it's worthless and
a waste of time.

Zoul wants "data". Roger, data is nothing more than information and it can,
or cannot, be tied to research. If it is tied to research, you're out of
your league trying to interpolate it. What Andrew has provided is data in
the term of info. He, as I am, are well aware of whether it is research
oriented or not. He, not I, *can* investigate research, research
methodologies, citations and the like.
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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It ain't the data, it is the pretention of science and the plea for
relevance and recognition that is a problem. If one is reduced to word
play to maintain image, well, pride comes before fall. If one accepts
that level of quality of "data", then every quack with snake oil has all
the data you ask him to produce. What would friends at emory have to say
about the quality of this "data"?

"Sorry you don't like the data either (shrug)."


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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Ah, hit upon a nerve. You have no knowledge at all of my suite of letters
to drape before and after my name. Most phd folk I have known show no
indication of such, it is in fact a cause for some distain from them when
seeing folk who have little but the alphebet to show for their efforts.
This is an example of the most childish display of hissy fit to consider.
Andrew does a bit of observation, thinks he sees a pattern, and calls it
science. Mr. hyde to the battle changes that not a whit. Because the
"pattern" is in it's weakist form by narrow definition of "data" serves
only to reflect upon him very very badly in several aspects that leads one
to pity after seeing that laughter is misplaced.


"Top posting issues aside, you have no idea what it takes to make "good
science" or "to be accepted for publication in any even simi peer reviewed
science publication". Sentence structure alone pegs you as college
challenged much less doctorate qualified. No doctorate? No
qualifications."


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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"Correct. The definition of data is not static is is up to the supplier
*and* the reader to determine if it meets their criteria."

And thus is the whine of every quack selling snake oil, "I am an authority
only to myself and those who believe me". Every one I gave my wonderful
potion was cured of aids. Now we have both data and science.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
 
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Default

wrote:
>
> It ain't the data, it is the pretention of science and the plea for
> relevance and recognition that is a problem.


You're going to have to make up your minds. Roger Zoul claims he does
not see any data in his attempt to wish the data away. You now claim
that your problem is not with the data but with the motive behind the
data gathering.

Perhaps you both can come back to this discussion when you have reached
a consensus to present a stronger unified front in your futile attempt
to overcome the truth.

Meanwhile, I stand ready to document the first person to gain weight
despite eating less per the 2PD Approach but in truth, no one should be
expecting this any more than one would expect cars to be replaced by
perpetual motion machines.

It still amazes me how there are folks (i.e. Roger Zoul and "wondering")
who seem to believe that they can gain weight despite eating less (i.e.
create mass/bulk out of thin air) and yet they seem unable to believe
our Creator, our heavenly Father, can do exactly that (i.e. create
mass/bulk out of thin air). This again illustrates how undiscerning
people will choose to believe what they want to believe even if it is
far removed from the truth.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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I have made up my mind, your childish attempt to save face is the cause of
pity for you. You know well how trivial the tiny point is that you have
gone to great lenghts to try to salvage. If i see a group of people jump
off a bridge then everyone jumped and the data supports the observation
that all jumped. I have data and a description of what happened; walla I
have science. As for the diet. any constraint made on calorie intake
below what is needed to maintain metabolisim etc. will result in weight
loss. One can use weight of food as the constraint, one can use total
volume such as x cups per day of food, one can use time to consume such as
x number of minutes to eat; the list can be quite long in fact. That is
the height and breath and content of your diet and "everyone" - there's
that data again - who gives it a look sees that. Your whole foot stamping
below about what I have said about your diet is putting words in my mouth
and this is a form of false witness.


I'm sorry for you for the blindsiding life gave you and I do understand
why maintaining face and supporting trivial points of word play now seem
inportant to you. It's time for you to move on and accept your
limitations. One obvious place to start is a bit of humility and dropping
the mask of "authority" you crave to cause others to see in you. When you
are ready to be a real man, then the information you know can then be put
to some good use, and the light of God will really ahve some chance to
shine through you.

>You're going to have to make up your minds. Roger Zoul claims he does
>not see any data in his attempt to wish the data away. You now claim
>that your problem is not with the data but with the motive behind the
>data gathering.
>
>Perhaps you both can come back to this discussion when you have reached
>a consensus to present a stronger unified front in your futile attempt
>to overcome the truth.
>
>Meanwhile, I stand ready to document the first person to gain weight
>despite eating less per the 2PD Approach but in truth, no one should be
>expecting this any more than one would expect cars to be replaced by
>perpetual motion machines.
>
>It still amazes me how there are folks (i.e. Roger Zoul and "wondering")
>who seem to believe that they can gain weight despite eating less (i.e.
>create mass/bulk out of thin air) and yet they seem unable to believe
>our Creator, our heavenly Father, can do exactly that (i.e. create
>mass/bulk out of thin air). This again illustrates how undiscerning
>people will choose to believe what they want to believe even if it is
>far removed from the truth.
>
>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
>
>--
>Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>Board-Certified Cardiologist
>http://www.heartmdphd.com/
>
>**
>Who is the humblest person in the universe?
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
>
>What is all this about?
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48
>
>Is this spam?
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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I tend to edit and proof read in direct proportion to the respect accorded
the person to whom I 'm responding, it it's a matter of a waste of time ya
know. I participate in an academic malinglist where almost all
participants are faculty with degrees up the gazoo and with many years of
research experience. Not one of them adds, either fore or aft, any of the
alphabet to their names. It is in one sense a matter of poor taste and to
do so would suggest that a poster needed it to punch up their standing in
some way and/or lacked something in their image of self or in possible
judgement from others. Andrew did a trivial observation trial and error
thing and made a big point of it as though serious research. The latter
is judged by concensus of what it is in the scientific community and not
his forced self definition of same. All the letters he wants to use, and
never fails to do so in absurdum, does not rescyue him from this reality
but does speak much of his current state. A s said, a more proper reason
for pity then humor upon reflection. It is clear he counts dearly upon
readers in newsgroups not knowing the difference, sorry to bring reality
into the discussion.

>Your top posting issues aside, most phd folk I have known demonstrate much
>higher levels of conversational ability.
>
>I am sorry if you feel my "distain" for your lies regarding your (lack of)
>educational qualifications fully demonstrated by the simple fact you can't
>spell. Maybe you use a different "alphebet" I bet. Maybe your nonsensical
>thought structure makes you the "weakist" link.
>
>I'm alphebetting you are a moron.
>
>On 07 Dec 2004 00:44:52 GMT, wrote:
>
>> You have no knowledge at all of my suite of letters
>> to drape before and after my name. Most phd folk I have known show no
>> indication of such, it is in fact a cause for some distain from them when
>> seeing folk who have little but the alphebet to show for their efforts.
>> This is an example of the most childish display of hissy fit to consider.
>> Andrew does a bit of observation, thinks he sees a pattern, and calls it
>> science. Mr. hyde to the battle changes that not a whit. Because the
>> "pattern" is in it's weakist form by narrow definition of "data" serves
>> only to reflect upon him very very badly in several aspects that leads one
>> to pity after seeing that laughter is misplaced.

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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Is there a better example of pot calling kettle black then could be found.
Good to see you have learned about web resources to find poosting sources.
Of course you hide behind mutiple names and a third party newsgroup
service to obscure your posting origin. In which case mr. hyde, of the
daring duo dr. jeckle and mr. hyde, will serve no doubt. The dr. half of
the duo also uses such tactics to obscure his posting origins. That is
part of what those services sell. Call me as you wish, if "everyone"
cares, now that is data ya know.

>Well Hi there, Dougie, so nice to hear from you again. You don't mind me
>calling you by your real name, do you?
>
>Best close off those ports, Dougie.
>
>reader.city-net.com
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.144.32.8
>X-Trace: 1100215750 reader.city-net.com 63176 198.144.32.8
>
>The account details a
>
>"Davidson, G. Douglas" >
>Davidson, G. Douglas
>CityNet, Inc.
>1739 East Carson Street, Number 352
>Pittsburgh, PA 15203
>USA
>
>Telephone - 412-481-5406
>Email -

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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"I tend to respond to people who lie about their educational background,"

However you choose your friends is your concern.
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