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My ongoing pizza trouble
Using 00 flour, making thin pies.
Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. I tried up top in oven and down low. I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. The pies are really good but could be better. What do I need to do to get the crust better? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote:
> Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > I tried up top in oven and down low. > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > The pies are really good but could be better. > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it bakes? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote:
> Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > I tried up top in oven and down low. > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > The pies are really good but could be better. > What do I need to do to get the crust better? This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans. Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top gets burnt. (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) -- Silvar Beitel |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Silvar Beitel wrote:
.... > (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) that's sad for sure... songbird |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Silvar...what a nice post
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:17:20 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote:
> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: > > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > > I tried up top in oven and down low. > > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > > The pies are really good but could be better. > > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > > This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans. Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top gets burnt. > > (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) > > (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) > > -- > Silvar Beitel I have made fried crust pizza. It's always an option. I'll make it about 50% of the time. I like to make it for the kids - they seem to like it better.. As it goes, it's easier to eat because it's easy to bite into. OTOH, here's a picture of a regular crust pizza. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 18:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Thomas >
wrote: >Silvar...what a nice post Where? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> wrote: >On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:17:20 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote: >> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> > The pies are really good but could be better. >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? >> >> This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans. Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top gets burnt. >> >> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) >> >> (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) >> >> -- >> Silvar Beitel > >I have made fried crust pizza. It's always an option. That's true. Every day one has to decide: shall I make a fried crust pizza today or not. Most of the time, the answer will be No. > I'll make it about 50% of the time. I like to make it for the kids - > they seem to like it better. As it goes, it's easier to eat because > it's easy to bite into. OTOH, here's a picture of a regular crust > pizza. > >https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt That's a very American pizza. I hereby declare you a humble Hawaiian American. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 > > wrote: > >> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:17:20 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote: >>> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: >>>> Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >>>> Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >>>> I tried up top in oven and down low. >>>> I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >>>> The pies are really good but could be better. >>>> What do I need to do to get the crust better? >>> >>> This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans. Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top gets burnt. >>> >>> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) >>> >>> (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) >>> >>> -- >>> Silvar Beitel >> >> I have made fried crust pizza. It's always an option. > > That's true. Every day one has to decide: shall I make a fried crust > pizza today or not. Most of the time, the answer will be No. > >> I'll make it about 50% of the time. I like to make it for the kids - >> they seem to like it better. As it goes, it's easier to eat because >> it's easy to bite into. OTOH, here's a picture of a regular crust >> pizza. >> >> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt > > That's a very American pizza. I hereby declare you a humble Hawaiian > American. > Americans are so low class. Why does an otherwise noble person such as yourself have to constantly refer to these disgusting cretins? It just makes me close to vomiting. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Silvar Beitel > writes:
> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: >> Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> I tried up top in oven and down low. >> I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> The pies are really good but could be better. >> What do I need to do to get the crust better? > > This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in > pans. Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating > the pans generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for > effect) so that the bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal > "high" home oven temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a > crunchy bottom, not a real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and > it happens before the top gets burnt. I don't think it's sacrilege but it sounds like a great technique for making pizza. But this doesn't answer Thomas' question. But, your technique sounds nice. I happened to make pizza tonight. Used my bread machine to make the dough while I napped. I believe the browning of the crust entails sugars in the dough. A number of years ago I read an op-ed on why New York style pizza is considered the best. My takeaway was that they proof their dough, at least the ones interviewed, for up to seventy-two hours. The long process forms sugars which caramelize during baking and gives the crust that telltale browning. Of you can add sugar to the dough to achieve the same browning. I did some research to find that article with no luck. But, now, there are a number of sites out there discussing it. https://www.bakingsteel.com/blog/72-hour-pizza-dough > > (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in > the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) How do you control the hydration? -- Daniel Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Ed Pawlowski > writes:
> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: >> Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> I tried up top in oven and down low. >> I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> The pies are really good but could be better. >> What do I need to do to get the crust better? >> > > How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 > minutes. Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet > before it bakes? Speaking of sauces. Does anyone have a tried and true red pizza sauce recipe? I just wing it with canned tomato sauce, herbs, salt, pepper, sugar. -- Daniel Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
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My ongoing pizza trouble
dsi1 wrote:
OTOH, here's a picture of a regular crust pizza. > > https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt Looks quite tasty to me. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:47:28 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>In article >, says... >> >> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> > The pies are really good but could be better. >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? >> > >> >> How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. >> Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it >> bakes? > > Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. Most pizzarias with real pizza ovens use perforated pizza pans for baking and that's what I've been using for some 40 years. The pizza in the perforated pan should be set to serve in its matching deep dish pan to prevent condensation at the bottom of the pizza. When a hot from the oven pizza is set on a solid metal serving pan or in a cardboard pizza box condensation occurs removing the crispness of the pizza crust. A real modern pizza oven has electric elements embedded inside the stone bottom or they use the original style oven with the flames from wood/coal/gas licking the bottom of the fire bricks. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 8:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:47:28 +0100, Janet > wrote: > > >In article >, says... > >> > >> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: > >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. > >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > >> > The pies are really good but could be better. > >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > >> > > >> > >> How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. > >> Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it > >> bakes? > > > > Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. > > 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know > zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated > stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home > oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. Most pizzarias with > real pizza ovens use perforated pizza pans for baking and that's what > I've been using for some 40 years. The pizza in the perforated pan > should be set to serve in its matching deep dish pan to prevent > condensation at the bottom of the pizza. When a hot from the oven > pizza is set on a solid metal serving pan or in a cardboard pizza box > condensation occurs removing the crispness of the pizza crust. > A real modern pizza oven has electric elements embedded inside the > stone bottom or they use the original style oven with the flames from > wood/coal/gas licking the bottom of the fire bricks. Or, there's this: <https://chicago.eater.com/2017/10/18/16501088/anthonys-coal-fired-pizza-chicago-restaurants-lombard-kildeer-orland-park-suburbs> A lot of places are going old school. We've got two or three wood- or coal-fired pizza places in our town of 120,000. Cindy Hamilton |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 Gary wrote:
>Janet wrote: >> esp@snet wrote: >> > On 6/19/2020 Thomas wrote: >> > >> > > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> > > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> > > I tried up top in oven and down low. >> > > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> > > The pies are really good but could be better. >> > > What do I need to do to get the crust better? >> > >> > How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. >> > Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it >> > bakes? >> >> Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. >> >> Cook your pizza on a thin metal tray (such as a cookie tray; or a >> roasting tin turned upside down). >> >> Preheat the oven, arrange pizza on cold tray, place tray on shelf in >> oven. > >I always cook my pizzas on a 16" round tray. No oil on the tray. >Cook for 20 minutes at 425F and it always turns out nice. Pizza bakes best on a perforated metal pan or a pizza screen: https://www.amazon.com/perforated-pi...ated+pizza+pan https://www.amazon.com/slp/pizza-screen/mnefzdp4k8gt5mh I have the Chicago Metallic pizza pan set; perforated pan, deep dish pan, and pizza knife... may need to buy it separately now. The perforated pan sits atop the deep dish pan so there's a space underneath for ventilation, no condensation: https://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Metal.../dp/B003YKGS36 The deep dish pizza pan is also my sticky bun pan. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
"dsi1" wrote in message ... On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:17:20 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote: > On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: > > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to > > nicley brown before burning top. > > I tried up top in oven and down low. > > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > > The pies are really good but could be better. > > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > > This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans. > Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans > generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the > bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven > temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a > real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top > gets burnt. > > (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the > fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) > > (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in > a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney > colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one > ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired > bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place > covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that > burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to > return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen.) > > -- > Silvar Beitel I have made fried crust pizza. It's always an option. I'll make it about 50% of the time. I like to make it for the kids - they seem to like it better. As it goes, it's easier to eat because it's easy to bite into. OTOH, here's a picture of a regular crust pizza. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt == oooh that look lovely. I tend to spread tom paste on the top, put the filling on and cover with cheese. What do you do differently? Is that the fried pizza? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Sheldon wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:47:28 +0100, Janet > wrote: > > >In article >, says... > >> > >> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: > >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. > >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > >> > The pies are really good but could be better. > >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > >> > > >> > >> How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. > >> Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it > >> bakes? > > > > Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. > > 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know > zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated > stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home > oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. I used a pizza stone *once* and then retired it to use as a potted plant stand... -- Best Greg |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:51:18 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote:
> Silvar Beitel > writes: > > (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in > > the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) > > How do you control the hydration? I just measure the flour and water by weight. At high hydration, I doubt storage room or proofing box humidity make much of a difference, but I don't have enough experience to be certain. -- Silvar Beitel |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
Sheldon Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 Gary wrote: > >I always cook my pizzas on a 16" round tray. No oil on the tray. > >Cook for 20 minutes at 425F and it always turns out nice. > > Pizza bakes best on a perforated metal pan or a pizza screen: No. I have a perforated pan and it was a waste of money. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:53:27 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote:
> Speaking of sauces. Does anyone have a tried and true red pizza sauce > recipe? I just wing it with canned tomato sauce, herbs, salt, pepper, sugar. I have experimented for years and have settled on this. It's fairly thick but easily spreadable and for me, it just ain't pizza unless it has fennel in the sauce. 8 oz. can of tomato sauce 8 oz. can of tomato paste 1 Tbsp. dry Italian herb blend 1/2 tsp. salt (or more or less, depending on the salt in the tomato sauce and paste) 1/2 tsp. black pepper 1 tsp. fennel seeds Stir it all together in a plastic container (old peanut butter jar is perfect). Use some for your current pizza(s), throw the jar in the freezer for next time(s). -- Silvar Beitel |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 06:34:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote: >On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 8:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote: >> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:47:28 +0100, Janet > wrote: >> >> >In article >, says... >> >> >> >> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: >> >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >> >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >> >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. >> >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >> >> > The pies are really good but could be better. >> >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? >> >> > >> >> >> >> How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. >> >> Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it >> >> bakes? >> > >> > Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. >> >> 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know >> zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated >> stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home >> oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. Most pizzarias with >> real pizza ovens use perforated pizza pans for baking and that's what >> I've been using for some 40 years. The pizza in the perforated pan >> should be set to serve in its matching deep dish pan to prevent >> condensation at the bottom of the pizza. When a hot from the oven >> pizza is set on a solid metal serving pan or in a cardboard pizza box >> condensation occurs removing the crispness of the pizza crust. >> A real modern pizza oven has electric elements embedded inside the >> stone bottom or they use the original style oven with the flames from >> wood/coal/gas licking the bottom of the fire bricks. > >Or, there's this: > ><https://chicago.eater.com/2017/10/18/16501088/anthonys-coal-fired-pizza-chicago-restaurants-lombard-kildeer-orland-park-suburbs> > >A lot of places are going old school. We've got two or three wood- >or coal-fired pizza places in our town of 120,000. > >Cindy Hamilton You didn't read my post with comprehension, I mentioned wood/coal pizza ovens, but how many can have such at home... the Fire Underwriters won't permit new pizza parlors to install such nor to replace such. Nowadays many insurerers won't offer fire insurance to homeowners using a fireplace. We had to sign a waiver document for Allstate that we don't use our fireplace... we never have... we have an electric thingie inserted that rotatets and looks like flames and it crackles. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On 2020-06-20 9:32 a.m., Silvar Beitel wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:51:18 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote: >> Silvar Beitel > writes: >>> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in >>> the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) >> >> How do you control the hydration? > > I just measure the flour and water by weight. At high hydration, I doubt storage room or proofing box humidity make much of a difference, but I don't have enough experience to be certain. > Is the 75% hydration for bread or AP flour? It seems a bit high for "00" Italian flour. Graham |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:46:41 AM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> > 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know > zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated > stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home > oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. > I've always read those pizza stones should be preheated for at least an hour in the home oven. Heating for twenty minutes does not even begin to get it hot. > > Most pizzarias with > real pizza ovens use perforated pizza pans for baking and that's what > I've been using for some 40 years. The pizza in the perforated pan > should be set to serve in its matching deep dish pan to prevent > condensation at the bottom of the pizza. > My favorite pizza joint does not have a stone oven nor do they use any type of pan. Also, they don't serve any type of 'pan' pizza. It is a gas oven with a conveyor belt the pizza rides on traveling through the oven. The pizzas come out perfectly browned on the bottom and somewhat crispy. No floppy slices of pizza when they're picked up from the plate but not stiff as a board either. Before you go off on a tangent they had to install a pizza oven that fits the space of their establishment. The pizza must be darn good as they never lack for customers. At home when I do a Newman's Own it says to cook the pizza directly on the oven rack. Do not use a pan of any sort if you want a browned bottom crust. I do as the instructions say and I end up with a perfect crispy crust every time. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 10:44:15 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > Sheldon Martin wrote: > > > > Pizza bakes best on a perforated metal pan or a pizza screen: > > No. I have a perforated pan and it was a waste of money. > I've got one, too. If we lived near Sheldon we could gift him those useless pans. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 06:34:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton > > wrote: > > >On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 8:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote: > >> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:47:28 +0100, Janet > wrote: > >> > >> >In article >, says... > >> >> > >> >> On 6/19/2020 5:05 PM, Thomas wrote: > >> >> > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > >> >> > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. > >> >> > I tried up top in oven and down low. > >> >> > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > >> >> > The pies are really good but could be better. > >> >> > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> How long do you heat up the stone? I always gave it 20 to 30 minutes. > >> >> Bottom rack. Could your sauce be making your crust too wet before it > >> >> bakes? > >> > > >> > Forget the stone, its just a fancy folderol. > >> > >> 'Zactly! Pizza stones are just an added expense for those who know > >> zero about cooking. As soon as a raw cold pizza is placed on a heated > >> stone it's temperature drops signicantly into the COLD zone and a home > >> oven can't reheat it for at least 10 minutes. Most pizzarias with > >> real pizza ovens use perforated pizza pans for baking and that's what > >> I've been using for some 40 years. The pizza in the perforated pan > >> should be set to serve in its matching deep dish pan to prevent > >> condensation at the bottom of the pizza. When a hot from the oven > >> pizza is set on a solid metal serving pan or in a cardboard pizza box > >> condensation occurs removing the crispness of the pizza crust. > >> A real modern pizza oven has electric elements embedded inside the > >> stone bottom or they use the original style oven with the flames from > >> wood/coal/gas licking the bottom of the fire bricks. > > > >Or, there's this: > > > ><https://chicago.eater.com/2017/10/18/16501088/anthonys-coal-fired-pizza-chicago-restaurants-lombard-kildeer-orland-park-suburbs> > > > >A lot of places are going old school. We've got two or three wood- > >or coal-fired pizza places in our town of 120,000. > > > >Cindy Hamilton > > You didn't read my post with comprehension, I mentioned wood/coal > pizza ovens, but how many can have such at home... Outdoors? Anybody who doesn't live in mobbed-up Nazi land. A kit costs as little as $200. Indoors it requires more money. > the Fire > Underwriters won't permit new pizza parlors to install such nor to > replace such. See above, mobbed-up Nazi land. Nearly every restaurant in Michigan that uses wood or coal had their oven installed in the last 10 years. > Nowadays many insurerers won't offer fire insurance to > homeowners using a fireplace. We had to sign a waiver document for > Allstate that we don't use our fireplace... we never have... we have > an electric thingie inserted that rotatets and looks like flames and > it crackles. State Farm didn't say anything about our fire place. Cindy Hamilton |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:46:05 PM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> On 2020-06-20 9:32 a.m., Silvar Beitel wrote: > > On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:51:18 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote: > >> Silvar Beitel > writes: > >>> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in > >>> the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) > >> > >> How do you control the hydration? > > > > I just measure the flour and water by weight. At high hydration, I doubt storage room or proofing box humidity make much of a difference, but I don't have enough experience to be certain. > > > Is the 75% hydration for bread or AP flour? It seems a bit high for "00" > Italian flour. > Graham Bread flour, specifically King Arthur. I never remember to put OO on my grocery list, so I've never tried it. But thanks to you, it's on there now. :-) And of course, if you think your dough is too wet, you can always work in a bit more while you're handling it. -- Silvar Beitel |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 14:05:54 -0700 (PDT), Thomas >
wrote: >Using 00 flour, making thin pies. >Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to nicley brown before burning top. >I tried up top in oven and down low. >I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. >The pies are really good but could be better. >What do I need to do to get the crust better? well I can tell you first of all that in a closed oven that is WAY WAY WAY to hot. When making pizza your oven should NEVER be over 400 degrees. Do not worry about what the recipe book says or what you saw on tv. Pizza should NEVER be cooked over 400 F in a closed oven. After your dough is dressed place it in a 400 f oven for NO MORE than 7 minutes! BTW pizza stones are a waste of money when cooking in a closed oven -- ____/~~~sine qua non~~~\____ |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On 2020-06-20 11:13 a.m., Silvar Beitel wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:46:05 PM UTC-4, graham wrote: >> On 2020-06-20 9:32 a.m., Silvar Beitel wrote: >>> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:51:18 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote: >>>> Silvar Beitel > writes: >>>>> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in >>>>> the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) >>>> >>>> How do you control the hydration? >>> >>> I just measure the flour and water by weight. At high hydration, I doubt storage room or proofing box humidity make much of a difference, but I don't have enough experience to be certain. >>> >> Is the 75% hydration for bread or AP flour? It seems a bit high for "00" >> Italian flour. >> Graham > > Bread flour, specifically King Arthur. I never remember to put OO on my grocery list, so I've never tried it. But thanks to you, it's on there now. :-) And of course, if you think your dough is too wet, you can always work in a bit more while you're handling it. > I make mine in the food processor using the dough blade so it's easy to adjust the hydration. When you try the "00", start off at 65% the add a bit more water if you feel you need to. You should be OK to 70%. You will find the crust is more tender. My teenager grandchildren raved about the crust when I first made it for them. As a result, I occasionally have to make a bunch of these bases for my son's family. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:58:50 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message > ... > > On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:17:20 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote: > > On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 5:05:58 PM UTC-4, Thomas wrote: > > > Using 00 flour, making thin pies. > > > Cuisinart stone in oven. Whether 550 deg or 450 i cannot get crust to > > > nicley brown before burning top. > > > I tried up top in oven and down low. > > > I tried low then opening oven door to let top heat out. > > > The pies are really good but could be better. > > > What do I need to do to get the crust better? > > > > This will be sacrilege to some, but consider baking your pizzas in pans.. > > Sheet pans, cake pans, whatever, thin aluminum. And coating the pans > > generously with oil (and a little coarse corn meal for effect) so that the > > bottoms of the pies "fry" in the oil at normal "high" home oven > > temperatures. Lower rack, of course. Result is a crunchy bottom, not a > > real char, but still pretty stiff and tasty, and it happens before the top > > gets burnt. > > > > (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in the > > fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) > > > > (And here's something that might elicit your envy or sympathy: I live in > > a very old (for the USA) New England farmhouse. It's a "center chimney > > colonial" style house. Said center chimney has five fireplaces and one > > ... beehive oven. Which would be perfect for pizza (or any wood-fired > > bread) except for the fact that the last owner who "renovated" the place > > covered over the oven with a wood (wood! you know, like the stuff that > > burns!) facing. In years of looking at it, I haven't figured our how to > > return it to usability without destroying an entire wall in the kitchen..) > > > > -- > > Silvar Beitel > > I have made fried crust pizza. It's always an option. I'll make it about 50% > of the time. I like to make it for the kids - they seem to like it better.. > As it goes, it's easier to eat because it's easy to bite into. OTOH, here's > a picture of a regular crust pizza. > > https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...kQE5L5Gx_r5xtt > > == > > oooh that look lovely. I tend to spread tom paste on the top, put the > filling on and cover with cheese. What do you do differently? Is that the > fried pizza? I'll open up a can of tomato paste and spread that on the dough, then sprinkle with salt and pepper. Then I hit it with a big container of spaghetti seasoning. You can use tomato sauce instead of paste if you want it to be more saucy but I hardly ever do. That is not a fried pizza - it's just a regular one. If I got a jar of pesto, I'll use that. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...9ek6sGqFXHtM5r |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:43:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > well I can tell you first of all that in a closed oven that is WAY WAY > WAY to hot. When making pizza your oven should NEVER be over 400 > degrees. Do not worry about what the recipe book says or what you saw > on tv. Pizza should NEVER be cooked over 400 F in a closed oven. > > After your dough is dressed place it in a 400 f oven for NO MORE than > 7 minutes! > BTW pizza stones are a waste of money when cooking in a closed oven > Well, Crusty Kruller, I bake mine, store-bought mind you, according to the package directions. 415° for 11-13 minutes; shocking, isn't it? On top of that, my gas oven actually has a pizza setting that will heat the oven to the desired temperature without me setting it to 415°.. These new-fangled appliances are amazing; it even cleans itself. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On 6/20/2020 10:13 AM, Silvar Beitel wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:46:05 PM UTC-4, graham wrote: >> On 2020-06-20 9:32 a.m., Silvar Beitel wrote: >>> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:51:18 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote: >>>> Silvar Beitel > writes: >>>>> (I incidentally have a batch of pizza dough (75% hydration) resting in >>>>> the fridge for home made pizza tomorrow or the next night.) >>>> >>>> How do you control the hydration? >>> >>> I just measure the flour and water by weight. At high hydration, I doubt storage room or proofing box humidity make much of a difference, but I don't have enough experience to be certain. >>> >> Is the 75% hydration for bread or AP flour? It seems a bit high for "00" >> Italian flour. >> Graham > > Bread flour, specifically King Arthur. I never remember to put OO on my grocery list, so I've never tried it. But thanks to you, it's on there now. :-) And of course, if you think your dough is too wet, you can always work in a bit more while you're handling it. > anyone tried to create their own 00 flour using a Vitamix? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:56:34 PM UTC-5, Hank Rogers wrote:
> > wrote: > > > > At home when I do a Newman's Own it says to cook the pizza directly on the > > oven rack. Do not use a pan of any sort if you want a browned bottom crust. > > I do as the instructions say and I end up with a perfect crispy crust every > > time. > > > > Newman ain't as smart as Popeye > And danged if Paul ain't dead, too! |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 1:02:10 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...9ek6sGqFXHtM5r > Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 1:16:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 1:02:10 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...9ek6sGqFXHtM5r > > > Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. *I* don't want ANYTHING by that Jeff Bezos' Amazon on MY computer, thank you very much! John Kuthe... |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 12:56:34 PM UTC-5, Hank Rogers wrote: >> >> wrote: >>> >>> At home when I do a Newman's Own it says to cook the pizza directly on the >>> oven rack. Do not use a pan of any sort if you want a browned bottom crust. >>> I do as the instructions say and I end up with a perfect crispy crust every >>> time. >>> >> >> Newman ain't as smart as Popeye >> > And danged if Paul ain't dead, too! > Thank God we have Popeye to fill in for him. |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
John Kuthe wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 1:16:52 PM UTC-5, wrote: >> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 1:02:10 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote: >>> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...9ek6sGqFXHtM5r >>> >> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. > > *I* don't want ANYTHING by that Jeff Bezos' Amazon on MY computer, thank you very much! > > John Kuthe... > Why? Did old Bezos ream out your ass kuth? |
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My ongoing pizza trouble
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