On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:43:13 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 12/19/2019 9:00 AM, Gary wrote:
>> Pamela wrote:
>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak any
>>> language other than English) is any better.
>>
>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch.
>> Just why do you hate Americans that much?
>>
>Why think anyone cares what barmen in Paris do?

Some people travel. Biddies not so much.

On 12/18/2019 8:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/18/2019 2:50 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Rather than add ice, I fill up a bottle or 2 with water and put them
>> in the fridge. (And then I carbonate them before use.)
>>
>> But if using ice makes you feel all modern, just do it!
>>
>
> Refrigerated water is just fine.Â* Carbonation would ruin it for me.Â* I
> guess if you like to tickle your tongue, go for it.

Carbonated drinks invariably give me the hiccups; I avoid them.

Jill

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:48:52 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 12/18/2019 8:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/18/2019 2:50 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> Rather than add ice, I fill up a bottle or 2 with water and put them
>>> in the fridge. (And then I carbonate them before use.)
>>>
>>> But if using ice makes you feel all modern, just do it!
>>>
>>
>> Refrigerated water is just fine.Â* Carbonation would ruin it for me.Â* I
>> guess if you like to tickle your tongue, go for it.
>
>Carbonated drinks invariably give me the hiccups; I avoid them.

Don't add so much gin!

On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>> On 12/19/2019 2:02 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:55:22 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>> On 12/19/2019 1:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>>>>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>>> I haven't been to Amsterdam in 50 years, so I suppose things have
>>>> changed - but I found the locals to be lovely, helpful people. Back
>>>> then, English wasn't spoken as widely as it is now, but nobody seemed
>>>> bothered if I asked for help in German. They generally answered in
>>>> Dutch, though, but my knowledge of both Scots and German made it fairly
>>>> easy to understand.
>>> I think it has to do with too much exposure to too many tourists. 50
>>> years ago that would have been less than now. I find small town French
>>> people much friendlier than Parisians, for instance. Blanket
>>> statement, of course.
>> Seems likely.
>> I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed - the heart has
>> been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely little
>> neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air B&Bs. There
>> seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during the Festival
>> weeks.
> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
> You might actually see a French person
>
My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
locals when I travel.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:03 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister

>>> Seems likely.
>>> I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed - the heart has
>>> been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely little
>>> neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air B&Bs. There
>>> seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during the Festival
>>> weeks.

>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>> You might actually see a French person
>>
>My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
>locals when I travel.

In the 70s, if they had something of a second language, it would be
German or maybe Spanish in the south. These days, I think they're a
bit more English oriented. Especially younger French people.

On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
> wrote:
>
>> On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>
>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>> Americans that much?
>>
>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>> British too.
>
> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
> capital city syndrome or something.
>
It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the nicest
people but meet them in the street and they can be really nasty.

On 12/19/2019 3:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>> Seems likely.
>>>> I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed - the heart has
>>>> been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely little
>>>> neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air B&Bs. There
>>>> seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during the Festival
>>>> weeks.
>>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>>> You might actually see a French person
>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
>> locals when I travel.
> In the 70s, if they had something of a second language, it would be
> German or maybe Spanish in the south. These days, I think they're a
> bit more English oriented. Especially younger French people.
>
Good to know.
But it seems rude to expect locals to accommodate my ignorance. I'd need
to at least make an attempt at basic French, so they can laugh at me
before they switch to English. Or German. Or Spanish.

On 2019-12-19 1:11 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>> On 12/19/2019 2:02 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:55:22 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>>> On 12/19/2019 1:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>>>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>>>>>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>>>> I haven't been to Amsterdam in 50 years, so I suppose things have
>>>>> changed - but I found the locals to be lovely, helpful people. Back
>>>>> then, English wasn't spoken as widely as it is now, but nobody seemed
>>>>> bothered if I asked for help in German. They generally answered in
>>>>> Dutch, though, but my knowledge of both Scots and German made it
>>>>> fairly
>>>>> easy to understand.
>>>> I think it has to do with too much exposure to too many tourists. 50
>>>> years ago that would have been less than now. I find small town French
>>>> people much friendlier than Parisians, for instance. Blanket
>>>> statement, of course.
>>> Seems likely.
>>> I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed - the heart has
>>> been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely little
>>> neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air B&Bs. There
>>> seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during the Festival
>>> weeks.
>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>> You might actually see a French person
>>
> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
> locals when I travel.

I've been on 6 cycling holidays in France over the last 8 years in
addition to other visits and have never had a problem. In fact my b-i-l
and I have received nothing but friendly interactions. On our last trip,
we stopped to consult the route map and an old guy stopped his car,
pulling onto the opposite sidewalk, to offer us help. Anecdote, of
course but a typical example of many experiences.

On 2019-12-19 1:50 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 12/19/2019 3:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>>> Seems likely.
>>>>> I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed - the heart has
>>>>> been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely little
>>>>> neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air B&Bs. There
>>>>> seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during the Festival
>>>>> weeks.
>>>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>>>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>>>> You might actually see a French person
>>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
>>> locals when I travel.
>> In the 70s, if they had something of a second language, it would be
>> German or maybe Spanish in the south. These days, I think they're a
>> bit more English oriented. Especially younger French people.
>>
> Good to know.
> But it seems rude to expect locals to accommodate my ignorance. I'd need
> to at least make an attempt at basic French, so they can laugh at me
> before they switch to English. Or German. Or Spanish.

The fact that you try is sufficient. There has been an enormous change
over the last 20 years in France. Because of tourism, many have some
knowledge of English. In addition, many young people speak it well.
There are so many young French people in London that it is the sixth
biggest French city!!

On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
(in article >):

> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
> British too.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.

We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
Does that not work?

leo

On 12/19/2019 4:05 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2019-12-19 1:50 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:

>> But it seems rude to expect locals to accommodate my ignorance. I'd
>> need to at least make an attempt at basic French, so they can laugh at
>> me before they switch to English. Or German. Or Spanish.
>
> The fact that you try is sufficient. There has been an enormous change
> over the last 20 years in France. Because of tourism, many have some
> knowledge of English. In addition, many young people speak it well.
> There are so many young French people in London that it is the sixth
> biggest French city!!

I wonder if that will change with Brexit?

On 12/19/2019 3:54 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2019-12-19 1:11 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:

>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking
>> to locals when I travel.
>
> I've been on 6 cycling holidays in France over the last 8 years in
> addition to other visits and have never had a problem. In fact my b-i-l
> and I have received nothing but friendly interactions. On our last trip,
> we stopped to consult the route map and an old guy stopped his car,
> pulling onto the opposite sidewalk, to offer us help. Anecdote, of
> course but a typical example of many experiences.

That's the sort of thing I expect up in the wilds of northern Scotland.
Good to know we're not alone in that!

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:54:09 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2019-12-19 1:11 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:

>>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>>> You might actually see a French person
>>>
>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking to
>> locals when I travel.
>
>I've been on 6 cycling holidays in France over the last 8 years in
>addition to other visits and have never had a problem. In fact my b-i-l
>and I have received nothing but friendly interactions. On our last trip,
>we stopped to consult the route map and an old guy stopped his car,
>pulling onto the opposite sidewalk, to offer us help. Anecdote, of
>course but a typical example of many experiences.

I have only had good experiences as well, especially away from tourist
traps.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:48:12 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>
>>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>> Americans that much?
>>>
>>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>> British too.
>>
>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>
>It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the nicest
>people but meet them in the street and they can be really nasty.

Maybe it's something to do with real or perceived stranger danger.

On 2019-12-19 4:06 p.m., Leo wrote:
> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
> (in article >):
>
>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>> British too.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>
> We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
> Does that not work?
>

Yes. That explains what I saw in Strasbourg when a young American woman
was yelling that she wanted ketchup... in a packet.... to go. It was so
tempting to tell her the girl is not deaf, she speaks French. My
French and German are pretty rusty but I have been able to make it
through much of western and north western Europe with English the the
remnants of French and German that I learned in my youth.

On 2019-12-19 4:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 12/19/2019 4:05 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2019-12-19 1:50 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>
>>> But it seems rude to expect locals to accommodate my ignorance. I'd
>>> need to at least make an attempt at basic French, so they can laugh
>>> at me before they switch to English. Or German. Or Spanish.
>>
>> The fact that you try is sufficient. There has been an enormous change
>> over the last 20 years in France. Because of tourism, many have some
>> knowledge of English. In addition, many young people speak it well.
>> There are so many young French people in London that it is the sixth
>> biggest French city!!
>
> I wonder if that will change with Brexit?
>

It is likely to. Part of being a member of the EU is being able to live
and work in the other member countries. I recall news stories about
British retirees living in France and Spain who may not be able to stay
there.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:15:38 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2019-12-19 4:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 12/19/2019 4:05 PM, graham wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-19 1:50 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>>
>>>> But it seems rude to expect locals to accommodate my ignorance. I'd
>>>> need to at least make an attempt at basic French, so they can laugh
>>>> at me before they switch to English. Or German. Or Spanish.
>>>
>>> The fact that you try is sufficient. There has been an enormous change
>>> over the last 20 years in France. Because of tourism, many have some
>>> knowledge of English. In addition, many young people speak it well.
>>> There are so many young French people in London that it is the sixth
>>> biggest French city!!
>>
>> I wonder if that will change with Brexit?
>>
>
>It is likely to. Part of being a member of the EU is being able to live
>and work in the other member countries. I recall news stories about
>British retirees living in France and Spain who may not be able to stay
>there.

"Serves them right for having absconded"

Bruce said:
Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
You might actually see a French person

We just came back from two weeks in
France this past August. We found the
Parisians to be really nice and friendly.
However, we also went to small towns
such as Bayieu and Amboise and others
in between and the folks there were super
nice and pleasant. Of course we
were nice too, always starting a conversation
with Bonjour Madame, Mademoiselle or
Monsieur.
I believe it does depend on the approach
and your attitude.

Nellie

On 2019-12-19 2:29 p.m., Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:48:12 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>>> British too.
>>>
>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>>
>> It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the nicest
>> people but meet them in the street and they can be really nasty.
>
> Maybe it's something to do with real or perceived stranger danger.
>
Or the anonymity of a big city allows a person to exhibit his/her real
personality.

On 2019-12-19 2:06 p.m., Leo wrote:
> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
> (in article >):
>
>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>> British too.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>
> We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
> Does that not work?
>
Only if you add the letter "o" to the end of every word.

On 21:06 19 Dec 2019, Leo > wrote:

> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
> (in article >):
>
>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>> British too.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>
> We are taught in school that if people can't understand us, talk louder.
> Does that not work?
>
> leo

And maybe wave some money under the nose of any uncooperative native.

Trouble is snooty Parisians would undergo a hardship if it let them stick it
to Anglo Saxons. Such is the chip on their shoulder.

On 18:41 19 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
> wrote:
>
>>On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>
>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>> Americans that much?
>>
>>Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>British too.
>
> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
> capital city syndrome or something.

You might care a little if you wanted a drink in Paris.

I went to a bar in Paris with a Parisienne friend who speaks fluent
English. The barman heard us talking as we came in and refused to serve
us. When my friend switched to perfect French he wouldn't accept she was
French and still refused to serve us. We found another bar. Such is Paris.

On 20:54 19 Dec 2019, graham > wrote:

> On 2019-12-19 1:11 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>> On 12/19/2019 2:02 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:55:22 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>>>> On 12/19/2019 1:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>>>>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They
>>>>>>> have capital city syndrome or something.
>>>>>> I haven't been to Amsterdam in 50 years, so I suppose things have
>>>>>> changed - but I found the locals to be lovely, helpful people. Back
>>>>>> then, English wasn't spoken as widely as it is now, but nobody
>>>>>> seemed bothered if I asked for help in German. They generally
>>>>>> answered in Dutch, though, but my knowledge of both Scots and
>>>>>> German made it fairly easy to understand.
>>>>> I think it has to do with too much exposure to too many tourists. 50
>>>>> years ago that would have been less than now. I find small town
>>>>> French people much friendlier than Parisians, for instance. Blanket
>>>>> statement, of course.
>>>> Seems likely. I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed
>>>> - the heart has been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely
>>>> little neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air
>>>> B&Bs. There seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during
>>>> the Festival weeks.
>>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>>> You might actually see a French person
>>>
>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking
>> to locals when I travel.
>
> I've been on 6 cycling holidays in France over the last 8 years in
> addition to other visits and have never had a problem. In fact my b-i-l
> and I have received nothing but friendly interactions. On our last trip,
> we stopped to consult the route map and an old guy stopped his car,
> pulling onto the opposite sidewalk, to offer us help. Anecdote, of
> course but a typical example of many experiences.

That would be completely unremarkable in Italy or Spain.

On 20:48 19 Dec 2019, graham > wrote:

> On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>
>>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>> Americans that much?
>>>
>>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>> British too.
>>
>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>
> It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the nicest
> people but meet them in the street and they can be really nasty.

Of all the people of the world, and I can't say I've seen them all, I found
Russians at home to be the most accomodating. They may not smile all the
time like Thais but I found many Russians are really nice people. Very
generous, even though they often have nothing.

Of course that doesn't go for all of them. Some of their "businessmen"
(which seems to be used as a synonym for a criminal in a suit) are rather
dodgy.

On 18:42 19 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:19:59 GMT, Pamela >
> wrote:
>
>>On 19:50 18 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 11:45:57 -0800 (PST), GM
>>> > wrote:
>>>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:04:28 AM UTC-6, Pamela wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Why are Americans so keen on ice in drinks? With a few exceptions,
>>>>> > such as cocktails, I rarely put ice into any of my drinks and much
>>>>> > prefer them that way.
>>>>> >
>>>>> Because we don't care for tepid tea in a glass, or water, or colas, or
>>>>> lemonade that is the temperature of what comes out of your faucet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't bother "explaining", Joan...trying to explain the use of ice or
>>>>air conditioning to UKer's/Europeans is a FUTILE effort...they are
>>>>seemingly stuck in c. 1900 or so when it comes to the 'temperature
>>>>control' of one's environment...
>>>
>>> Rather than add ice, I fill up a bottle or 2 with water and put them
>>> in the fridge. (And then I carbonate them before use.)
>>>
>>> But if using ice makes you feel all modern, just do it!
>>
>>Are you affected by the current heatwave in Oz?
>
> Not really. It'll be in the mid 30s (95F) today.

Plenty warm enough for me. Too much really.

On 12/19/2019 3:48 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14:00Â* 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>
>>>> Biased often?Â* Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>> Americans that much?
>>>
>>> Parisian barmen, not me.Â* American lack of language skills and a loud
>>> manner is nothing to do with me.Â* Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>> British too.
>>
>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>
> It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the nicest
> people but meet them in the street and they can be really nasty.

I've spent a lot of time in NYC and have not met the nasty ones. If
you've never been there before, never dealt with them, they will seem
nasty. They tend to be brusque, to the point and don't take a lot of
time for pleasantries like you find in the south. Not as polite as the
mid-west.

Any time I go there, even driving through, my brain has to go into a
different mode and we get along fine.

On 12/19/2019 5:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2019-12-19 4:06 p.m., Leo wrote:
>> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
>> (in article >):
>>
>>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>> British too.
>>>
>>> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>>
>> We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
>> Does that not work?
>>
>
> Yes. That explains what I saw in Strasbourg when a young American woman
> was yelling that she wanted ketchup... in a packet.... to go. It was so
> tempting toÂ* tell her the girl is not deaf, she speaks French.Â* My
> French and German are pretty rusty butÂ* I have been able to make it
> through much of western and north western Europe with English the the
> remnants of French and German that I learned in my youth.
>

Both when traveling or dealing with foreign visitors you can make it
very easy with a little effort.

Learn to say good morning/afternoon/evening, thank you, how much? and
smile. Throw in some hand gestures and you can go anywhere.

Of course, if that is not working just talk really loud. That inspires
people to help.

On 2019-12-19 5:35 p.m., Pamela wrote:
> On 20:54 19 Dec 2019, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 2019-12-19 1:11 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2019 2:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:37:03 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>>> On 12/19/2019 2:02 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:55:22 -0500, S Viemeister
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2019 1:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>>>>>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They
>>>>>>>> have capital city syndrome or something.
>>>>>>> I haven't been to Amsterdam in 50 years, so I suppose things have
>>>>>>> changed - but I found the locals to be lovely, helpful people. Back
>>>>>>> then, English wasn't spoken as widely as it is now, but nobody
>>>>>>> seemed bothered if I asked for help in German. They generally
>>>>>>> answered in Dutch, though, but my knowledge of both Scots and
>>>>>>> German made it fairly easy to understand.
>>>>>> I think it has to do with too much exposure to too many tourists. 50
>>>>>> years ago that would have been less than now. I find small town
>>>>>> French people much friendlier than Parisians, for instance. Blanket
>>>>>> statement, of course.
>>>>> Seems likely. I used to live in Edinburgh, but it has really changed
>>>>> - the heart has been ripped out of the city, what used to be lovely
>>>>> little neighbourhoods are now cluttered with tourist tat and Air
>>>>> B&Bs. There seem to be more tourists than locals, and not just during
>>>>> the Festival weeks.
>>>> Yes, Amsterdam and Paris suffer from that too. For a French city
>>>> experience, you're better off going to one of the provincial cities.
>>>> You might actually see a French person
>>>>
>>> My French is nearly non-existent. I would have to take an immersion
>>> course before attempting a visit to provincial France. I like talking
>>> to locals when I travel.
>>
>> I've been on 6 cycling holidays in France over the last 8 years in
>> addition to other visits and have never had a problem. In fact my b-i-l
>> and I have received nothing but friendly interactions. On our last trip,
>> we stopped to consult the route map and an old guy stopped his car,
>> pulling onto the opposite sidewalk, to offer us help. Anecdote, of
>> course but a typical example of many experiences.
>
> That would be completely unremarkable in Italy or Spain.
>
Or in Canada! But we were talking about France.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/19/2019 3:48 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2019-12-19 11:41 a.m., Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14:00Â* 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to
>>>>>> speak
>>>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Biased often?Â* Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>>> Americans that much?
>>>>
>>>> Parisian barmen, not me.Â* American lack of language skills and
>>>> a loud
>>>> manner is nothing to do with me.Â* Parisians, in general,
>>>> dislike the
>>>> British too.
>>>
>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>>
>> It's said that meet a New Yorker in his/her home and they are the
>> nicest people but meet them in the street and they can be really
>> nasty.
>
> I've spent a lot of time in NYC and have not met the nasty ones.* If
> you've never been there before, never dealt with them, they will
> seem nasty.* They tend to be brusque, to the point and don't take a
> lot of time for pleasantries like you find in the south.* Not as
> polite as the mid-west.
>
> Any time I go there, even driving through, my brain has to go into a
> different mode and we get along fine.

Ed, any culture you visit will have some nice folks and a few nasty
ones. Whether north, south, or on any continent.

No group can lay claim to being strictly nice, or nasty.

Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:43:13 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/19/2019 9:00 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak any
>>>> language other than English) is any better.
>>>
>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch.
>>> Just why do you hate Americans that much?
>>>
>> Why think anyone cares what barmen in Paris do?
>
> Some people travel. Biddies not so much.
>

Indeed, Biddies and dutchmen cannot get passports. That's why they
are stuck here.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:32:47 GMT, Pamela >
wrote:

>On 18:41 19 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to speak
>>>>> any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>
>>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>> Americans that much?
>>>
>>>Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>>manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>>British too.
>>
>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>> capital city syndrome or something.
>
>You might care a little if you wanted a drink in Paris.
>
>I went to a bar in Paris with a Parisienne friend who speaks fluent
>English. The barman heard us talking as we came in and refused to serve
>us. When my friend switched to perfect French he wouldn't accept she was
>French and still refused to serve us. We found another bar. Such is Paris.

I've never experienced that because I speak French. But I've heard
enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to English
speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the English
speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks English.

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 20:23:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 12/19/2019 5:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2019-12-19 4:06 p.m., Leo wrote:
>>> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
>>> (in article >):
>>>
>>>> Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>>> manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>>> British too.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>>>
>>> We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
>>> Does that not work?
>>>
>>
>> Yes. That explains what I saw in Strasbourg when a young American woman
>> was yelling that she wanted ketchup... in a packet.... to go. It was so
>> tempting toÂ* tell her the girl is not deaf, she speaks French.Â* My
>> French and German are pretty rusty butÂ* I have been able to make it
>> through much of western and north western Europe with English the the
>> remnants of French and German that I learned in my youth.
>>
>
>Both when traveling or dealing with foreign visitors you can make it
>very easy with a little effort.
>
>Learn to say good morning/afternoon/evening, thank you, how much? and
>smile. Throw in some hand gestures and you can go anywhere.
>
>Of course, if that is not working just talk really loud. That inspires
>people to help.

I think you're right. The attitude makes a lot of difference.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:45:21 GMT, Pamela >
wrote:

>On 18:42 19 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:19:59 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 19:50 18 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 11:45:57 -0800 (PST), GM
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:04:28 AM UTC-6, Pamela wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Why are Americans so keen on ice in drinks? With a few exceptions,
>>>>>> > such as cocktails, I rarely put ice into any of my drinks and much
>>>>>> > prefer them that way.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> Because we don't care for tepid tea in a glass, or water, or colas, or
>>>>>> lemonade that is the temperature of what comes out of your faucet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't bother "explaining", Joan...trying to explain the use of ice or
>>>>>air conditioning to UKer's/Europeans is a FUTILE effort...they are
>>>>>seemingly stuck in c. 1900 or so when it comes to the 'temperature
>>>>>control' of one's environment...
>>>>
>>>> Rather than add ice, I fill up a bottle or 2 with water and put them
>>>> in the fridge. (And then I carbonate them before use.)
>>>>
>>>> But if using ice makes you feel all modern, just do it!
>>>
>>>Are you affected by the current heatwave in Oz?
>>
>> Not really. It'll be in the mid 30s (95F) today.
>
>Plenty warm enough for me. Too much really.

Yes, but heat waves are closer to and over 40 here.

On 06:27 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:32:47 GMT, Pamela >
> wrote:
>
>>On 18:41 19 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:36:02 GMT, Pamela >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 14:00 19 Dec 2019, Gary > wrote:
>>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt what barmen in Paris do to drinks ordered by Americans
>>>>>> (discernible by their loud arrogant manner and an inability to
>>>>>> speak any language other than English) is any better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Biased often? Now you're being an assmunch. Just why do you hate
>>>>> Americans that much?
>>>>
>>>>Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
>>>>manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
>>>>British too.
>>>
>>> Parisians aren't the nicest French people. Just like Amsterdammers
>>> aren't the nicest Dutch people. In my experience at least. They have
>>> capital city syndrome or something.
>>
>>You might care a little if you wanted a drink in Paris.
>>
>>I went to a bar in Paris with a Parisienne friend who speaks fluent
>>English. The barman heard us talking as we came in and refused to serve
>>us. When my friend switched to perfect French, he wouldn't accept she
>>was French and still refused to serve us. We found another bar. Such
>>is Paris.
>
> I've never experienced that because I speak French.

I explained my friend spoke French to the barman. She is Paris born and
comes from a long line of native French people. (I'm trying to say,
without getting accused of racism, that she's a white French woman and not
an obvious immigrant.)

> But I've heard enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to
> English speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the English
> speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks English.

As that didn't happen, it's hard to account for the snooty attitude of too
many Parisians.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:45:24 GMT, Pamela >
wrote:

>On 06:27 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:32:47 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I went to a bar in Paris with a Parisienne friend who speaks fluent
>>>English. The barman heard us talking as we came in and refused to serve
>>>us. When my friend switched to perfect French, he wouldn't accept she
>>>was French and still refused to serve us. We found another bar. Such
>>>is Paris.
>>
>> I've never experienced that because I speak French.
>
>I explained my friend spoke French to the barman. She is Paris born and
>comes from a long line of native French people. (I'm trying to say,
>without getting accused of racism, that she's a white French woman and not
>an obvious immigrant.)

So you met a French asshole. That sucks.

>> But I've heard enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to
>> English speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the English
>> speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks English.
>
>As that didn't happen, it's hard to account for the snooty attitude of too
>many Parisians.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I believe that Parisians
aren't the nicest French people, generally speaking, but I wouldn't
base that on one asshole.

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 4:06:33 PM UTC-5, Leo wrote:
> On 2019 Dec 19, , Pamela wrote
> (in article >):
>
> > Parisian barmen, not me. American lack of language skills and a loud
> > manner is nothing to do with me. Parisians, in general, dislike the
> > British too.
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, Americans are alright.
>
> We are taught in school that if people cant understand us, talk louder.
> Does that not work?
>
> leo

Louder _and_ slower.

Cindy Hamilton

On 10:51 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:45:24 GMT, Pamela >
> wrote:
>
>>On 06:27 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:32:47 GMT, Pamela >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I went to a bar in Paris with a Parisienne friend who speaks fluent
>>>>English. The barman heard us talking as we came in and refused to
>>>>serve us. When my friend switched to perfect French, he wouldn't
>>>>accept she was French and still refused to serve us. We found another
>>>>bar. Such is Paris.
>>>
>>> I've never experienced that because I speak French.
>>
>>I explained my friend spoke French to the barman. She is Paris born and
>>comes from a long line of native French people. (I'm trying to say,
>>without getting accused of racism, that she's a white French woman and
>>not an obvious immigrant.)
>
> So you met a French asshole. That sucks.
>
>>> But I've heard enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to
>>> English speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the
>>> English speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks
>>> English.
>>
>>As that didn't happen, it's hard to account for the snooty attitude of
>>too many Parisians.
>
> I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I believe that Parisians aren't
> the nicest French people, generally speaking, but I wouldn't base that
> on one asshole.

That's an example. I like the city very much but its inhabitants are
notoriously rude and conteptuous. I'm surprised you haven't come across
this before.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 13:03:36 GMT, Pamela >
wrote:

>On 10:51 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:45:24 GMT, Pamela >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 06:27 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>>
>>>> But I've heard enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to
>>>> English speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the
>>>> English speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks
>>>> English.
>>>
>>>As that didn't happen, it's hard to account for the snooty attitude of
>>>too many Parisians.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I believe that Parisians aren't
>> the nicest French people, generally speaking, but I wouldn't base that
>> on one asshole.
>
>That's an example. I like the city very much but its inhabitants are
>notoriously rude and conteptuous. I'm surprised you haven't come across
>this before.

I already said that Parisians aren't the nicest French people, in my
opinion. Same with Amsterdammers and Dutch. Maybe they see too many
tourists. Or maybe it's a capital city attitude.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 05:23:35 +1100, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 13:03:36 GMT, Pamela >
>wrote:
>
>>On 10:51 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:45:24 GMT, Pamela >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 06:27 20 Dec 2019, Bruce > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But I've heard enough stories about French/Parisians being arrogant to
>>>>> English speakers to know that it happens. Maybe more so when the
>>>>> English speaking person blindly assumes every French person speaks
>>>>> English.
>>>>
>>>>As that didn't happen, it's hard to account for the snooty attitude of
>>>>too many Parisians.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I believe that Parisians aren't
>>> the nicest French people, generally speaking, but I wouldn't base that
>>> on one asshole.
>>
>>That's an example. I like the city very much but its inhabitants are
>>notoriously rude and conteptuous. I'm surprised you haven't come across
>>this before.
>
>I already said that Parisians aren't the nicest French people, in my
>opinion. Same with Amsterdammers and Dutch. Maybe they see too many
>tourists. Or maybe it's a capital city attitude.

Maybe it's extremely low IQ and lousy upbringing. Most Parisians,
Amsterdammers, and Dutch never knew their fathers... their mothers
don't know their *******'s fathers.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:09:25 -0500, wrote:

>On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 05:23:35 +1100, Bruce >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 13:03:36 GMT, Pamela >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>That's an example. I like the city very much but its inhabitants are
>>>notoriously rude and conteptuous. I'm surprised you haven't come across
>>>this before.
>>
>>I already said that Parisians aren't the nicest French people, in my
>>opinion. Same with Amsterdammers and Dutch. Maybe they see too many
>>tourists. Or maybe it's a capital city attitude.
>
>Maybe it's extremely low IQ and lousy upbringing. Most Parisians,
>Amsterdammers, and Dutch never knew their fathers... their mothers
>don't know their *******'s fathers.

LOL The world according to Sheldon.