"U.S. Janet B." > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:31:58 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"graham" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> On 2018-11-28 8:42 a.m., Fruitiest of Fruitcakes wrote:
>>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>>> (in article >):
>>>>
>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because there is
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> honey
>>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>>
>>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but just
>>>> enough
>>>> flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>>
>>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>>
>>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>>> should.
>>>> Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Rye doughs are different though. They are sticky at "normal" levels of
>>> hydration.
>>
>>I still think it was a combination of too thick molasses and too much AP
>>Flour.
>
> did you follow the recipe or make it up as you went along? The
> molasses isn't the problem. It is the nature of rye dough.

I followed the recipe.

"Cheri" wrote in message news
"Ophelia" > wrote in message

> I prefer to choose what I make us to eat. As I have said elsewhere ... I
> know what goes into our food and that my bread stales far faster then
> bought stuff. I take into consideration what they do to their breads. I
> prefer my choice of ingredients.
>
> I have no problem with what others like to eat, that is their choice and
> nothing wrong with that! Personal choice is all)

That's one of the nice things about you, you do what you do without
attacking other posters for their choices at every turn.

Cheri

==

It's kind of you to say so, but I just know I am not the know it all guru
about all foods

Heck we all have different tastes and preferences)

Thank you for your kind comments though

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 18:38:36 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" wrote in message
>>news >>
>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:21:20 -0500, wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:12:03 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Certainly a whole lot more people buy bread than make it these days.
>>>>
>>>>Cheri
>>>
>>>Few people bake anything these days, perhaps the occasional box cake.
>>>Plus people are watching their weight, and it's a fact that with home
>>>baked goods people eat three times as much.
>>
>>With home baked goods, people know what goes in them. They can leave
>>out the unnecessary sugar, for instance.
>>
>>==
>>
>>I prefer to choose what I make us to eat. As I have said elsewhere ... I
>>know what goes into our food and that my bread stales far faster then
>>bought
>>stuff. I take into consideration what they do to their breads. I prefer
>>my
>>choice of ingredients.
>>
>>I have no problem with what others like to eat, that is their choice and
>>nothing wrong with that! Personal choice is all)
>
>Do you add any fat to your bread? My sourdough bread stales fast too.
>I have to remember to add some olive oil to the dough next time. Maybe
>that will help.
>
>===
>
>Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.

Oil then, most of the time.

==

Your choice! Experiment with both)

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 15:41:37 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>On 11/29/2018 2:56 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>
>>> Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.
>>
>> Oil then, most of the time.
>>
>I generally use butter for sweet things, like coffee cakes. For everyday
>bread, generally avocado oil. I like walnut oil when I make rye bread.
>And yes, the fat, whether butter or oil, will definitely make it keep
>longer.

I've only used olive oil occasionally so far. I'm not sure if I can
taste whether I've added oil and which oil, but half a loaf takes us 3
days to get through, so more shelf life would be good.

==

Pretty much the same here, so we freeze half the loaf.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:27:13 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 15:41:37 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:
>
>>On 11/29/2018 2:56 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.
>>>
>>> Oil then, most of the time.
>>>
>>I generally use butter for sweet things, like coffee cakes. For everyday
>>bread, generally avocado oil. I like walnut oil when I make rye bread.
>>And yes, the fat, whether butter or oil, will definitely make it keep
>>longer.
>
>I've only used olive oil occasionally so far. I'm not sure if I can
>taste whether I've added oil and which oil, but half a loaf takes us 3
>days to get through, so more shelf life would be good.
>
>==
>
>Pretty much the same here, so we freeze half the loaf.

I always (well always, I only restarted recently) make 2 loaves at a
time and freeze one and a half.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:07:49 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 18:38:36 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"Bruce" wrote in message
>>>news >>>
>>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:21:20 -0500, wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:12:03 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Certainly a whole lot more people buy bread than make it these days.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheri
>>>>
>>>>Few people bake anything these days, perhaps the occasional box cake.
>>>>Plus people are watching their weight, and it's a fact that with home
>>>>baked goods people eat three times as much.
>>>
>>>With home baked goods, people know what goes in them. They can leave
>>>out the unnecessary sugar, for instance.
>>>
>>>==
>>>
>>>I prefer to choose what I make us to eat. As I have said elsewhere ... I
>>>know what goes into our food and that my bread stales far faster then
>>>bought
>>>stuff. I take into consideration what they do to their breads. I prefer
>>>my
>>>choice of ingredients.
>>>
>>>I have no problem with what others like to eat, that is their choice and
>>>nothing wrong with that! Personal choice is all)
>>
>>Do you add any fat to your bread? My sourdough bread stales fast too.
>>I have to remember to add some olive oil to the dough next time. Maybe
>>that will help.
>>
>>===
>>
>>Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.
>
>Oil then, most of the time.
>
>==
>
>Your choice! Experiment with both)

Yes

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news >
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news >>
>> At least I think so! Two mistakes that I might have made were that the
>> room
>> was likely too cool. I have no heat on. I did set the dough on top of the
>> stove but did not get quite the amount of rise I expected. However, the
>> resulting loaves look exactly like the picture with the recipe. So maybe
>> it
>> should be that way. And I think I added a bit too much AP flour. I
>> started
>> with the lower amount of flour but wound up having to add a bit of water
>> as
>> I kneaded it because rather than it being a soft dough, it was very thick
>> and hard to work with. Or maybe the molasses was the culprit. It was so
>> thick it would barely pour out.
>>
>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey whole
>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because there is no
>> honey
>> or whole wheat in it. But the middle note is like those small.block
>> shaped
>> German rye loaves. The finish is sweet and wonderful. I am eating some
>> now
>> with butter and Swiss cheese.
>>
>> Can't wait to take some to my friend tomorrow and I also plan to make
>> another batch tomorrow with fresh molasses and perhaps less AP flour.
>> Reason
>> being, I will soon be finishing off one loaf. I'm sure the gardener will
>> eat
>> the other and two are going to my friend. So I will need more!
>> ==
>>
>> Congratulations)) Keep enjoying)
>
> She loved it but now I have to find a source for the flour. I bought all
> of
> the small amount of bulk that Central Market had. Other stores have no rye
> flour or only the dark.
>
> ==
>
> Can you get it online?

Yes but so far all I've seen is expensive.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:00:07 -0800, "Cheri" >


>>But Sheldon was saying...a person eats three times as much so not much
>>savings calorie wise.
>
> I don't believe that.


So? He does. Dead horse.

Cheri

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:53:16 -0800, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:12:03 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Gary" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:29:50 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >"Gary" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> >> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>>>>>> >>> whole
>>>>>> >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because there
>>>>>> >>> is
>>>>>> >>> no
>>>>>> >>> honey
>>>>>> >>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>>>> >> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>>>> >> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I've tried that brand. Just doesn't do it for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody who likes that bread has their taste buds built in back to
>>>>>> front.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce's latest anti-Gary comment immediately followed by 2-3
>>>>> seconds of 'canned laughter' recording of audience chuckling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Certainly a whole lot more people buy bread than make it these days.
>>>
>>> Definitely, but beats me why anyone would buy Gary's frankenbread.
>>> Even supermarkets sell better bread than that.
>>
>>
>>Where do you think Gary got the Nature's Own bread if not the supermarket.
>
> Duh.
>
>>People should buy what they want, eat what they want etc. without some
>>posters attacking them at ever turn.
>
> I'll be the judge of that.
>
>> You don't have to like or approve of
>>their choices, but the constant nagging and belittling like some crotchety
>>old man gets annoying. Just take care of your own food choices howabout?
>
> Why are you trying to police what I say? How about you worry about
> your posts and I worry about mine?


Done.

Cheri

"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/29/2018 3:00 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>
>>> All I'm saying is that Sheldon's wrong as usual. When you make things
>>> from scratch, you'll consume less fat and sugar, unless you
>>> deliberately put it in yourself.
>>
>>
>> But Sheldon was saying...a person eats three times as much so not much
>> savings calorie wise.
>
> And Sheldon is NEVER wrong...


Often.

Cheri

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:30 -0800, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:00:07 -0800, "Cheri" >
>
>
>>>But Sheldon was saying...a person eats three times as much so not much
>>>savings calorie wise.
>>
>> I don't believe that.
>
>
>So? He does. Dead horse.

I think you'd only be happy if this newsgroup was full of braindead
mouth breathers who buy all the prefab junk that the food industry
offers them. That's weird because you're not even a braindead mouth
breather yourself. You just have a soft spot for junk and for those
who eat it.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:59 -0800, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:53:16 -0800, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
...

>>>> Definitely, but beats me why anyone would buy Gary's frankenbread.
>>>> Even supermarkets sell better bread than that.
>>>
>>>
>>>Where do you think Gary got the Nature's Own bread if not the supermarket.
>>
>> Duh.
>>
>>>People should buy what they want, eat what they want etc. without some
>>>posters attacking them at ever turn.
>>
>> I'll be the judge of that.
>>
>>> You don't have to like or approve of
>>>their choices, but the constant nagging and belittling like some crotchety
>>>old man gets annoying. Just take care of your own food choices howabout?
>>
>> Why are you trying to police what I say? How about you worry about
>> your posts and I worry about mine?
>
>
>Done.

Good. Next time take out your shitty mood on someone else. I've had my
turn.

Jinx the Minx wrote:

> Ophelia > wrote:
> >
> >
> > "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
> > news.com...
> >
> > On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
> > (in article >):
> >
> >> Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
> there is no >>> honey
> >>> or whole wheat in it.
> >>
> >> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
> >> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
> >> with butter is a very tasty treat.
> >>
> >> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
> >
> > I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
> >
> > In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
> > just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
> >
> > Flour on your hands will help.
> >
> > If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
> > should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
> >
> > ==
> >
> > My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
> > shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
> > since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
> > knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
> me, either.

Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
2001.

I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
really started making bread *after that*.

Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
making that needed.

I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:58:23 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>2001.
>
>I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>really started making bread *after that*.
>
>Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>making that needed.

Do you make these things up on the fly or do you actually know what
you're trying to say?

>I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.

Ok, I'll let you get away with it, but only this time!

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:58:23 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:


>>
>> Depressing, isn’t it? I’ve made bread a few times, and always looked
>> to future days when I’d have the time to make it more often, and
>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>> me, either.
>
>Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>2001.
>
>I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>really started making bread *after that*.
>
>Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>making that needed.
>
>I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.

I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
years.

In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
dough, I laugh.

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
> years.
>
> In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
> dough, I laugh.

I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm hoping, anyway.

cshenk > wrote:
> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
>> Ophelia > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
>>> news.com...
>>>
>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>> (in article >):
>>>
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
>> there is no >>> honey
>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>
>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>
>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
>>> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>
>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>
>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
>>> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
>>> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
>>> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
>> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>> me, either.
>
> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
> 2001.
>
> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
> 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
> really started making bread *after that*.
>
> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
> your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
> different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
> making that needed.
>
> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>

I do have an old bread machine from back when they were the newest hot
gadget to get. I used a few times but didnt really care for the end
result. Perhaps I just need to experiment with it more. Likewise with
the no-knead breads.

"Bruce" wrote in message news
On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:27:13 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 15:41:37 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:
>
>>On 11/29/2018 2:56 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.
>>>
>>> Oil then, most of the time.
>>>
>>I generally use butter for sweet things, like coffee cakes. For everyday
>>bread, generally avocado oil. I like walnut oil when I make rye bread.
>>And yes, the fat, whether butter or oil, will definitely make it keep
>>longer.
>
>I've only used olive oil occasionally so far. I'm not sure if I can
>taste whether I've added oil and which oil, but half a loaf takes us 3
>days to get through, so more shelf life would be good.
>
>==
>
>Pretty much the same here, so we freeze half the loaf.

I always (well always, I only restarted recently) make 2 loaves at a
time and freeze one and a half.

==

Sounds as though that should be working pretty well

"Julie Bove" wrote in message news

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news >
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news >>
>> At least I think so! Two mistakes that I might have made were that the
>> room
>> was likely too cool. I have no heat on. I did set the dough on top of the
>> stove but did not get quite the amount of rise I expected. However, the
>> resulting loaves look exactly like the picture with the recipe. So maybe
>> it
>> should be that way. And I think I added a bit too much AP flour. I
>> started
>> with the lower amount of flour but wound up having to add a bit of water
>> as
>> I kneaded it because rather than it being a soft dough, it was very thick
>> and hard to work with. Or maybe the molasses was the culprit. It was so
>> thick it would barely pour out.
>>
>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey whole
>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because there is no
>> honey
>> or whole wheat in it. But the middle note is like those small.block
>> shaped
>> German rye loaves. The finish is sweet and wonderful. I am eating some
>> now
>> with butter and Swiss cheese.
>>
>> Can't wait to take some to my friend tomorrow and I also plan to make
>> another batch tomorrow with fresh molasses and perhaps less AP flour.
>> Reason
>> being, I will soon be finishing off one loaf. I'm sure the gardener will
>> eat
>> the other and two are going to my friend. So I will need more!
>> ==
>>
>> Congratulations)) Keep enjoying)
>
> She loved it but now I have to find a source for the flour. I bought all
> of
> the small amount of bulk that Central Market had. Other stores have no rye
> flour or only the dark.
>
> ==
>
> Can you get it online?

Yes but so far all I've seen is expensive.

==

Oh Well, keep looking. You were lucky once ... so ..

"cshenk" wrote in message
...

Jinx the Minx wrote:

> Ophelia > wrote:
> >
> >
> > "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
> > news.com...
> >
> > On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
> > (in article >):
> >
> >> Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
> there is no >>> honey
> >>> or whole wheat in it.
> >>
> >> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
> >> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
> >> with butter is a very tasty treat.
> >>
> >> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
> >
> > I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
> >
> > In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
> > just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
> >
> > Flour on your hands will help.
> >
> > If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
> > should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
> >
> > ==
> >
> > My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
> > shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
> > since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
> > knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
> me, either.

Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
2001.

I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
really started making bread *after that*.

Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
making that needed.

I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.

==

No reason why you should!

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
> years.
>
> In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
> dough, I laugh.

I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
hoping, anyway.

==

Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
didn't like it much)

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news
cshenk > wrote:
> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
>> Ophelia > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
>>> news.com...
>>>
>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>> (in article >):
>>>
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
>> there is no >>> honey
>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>
>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>
>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
>>> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>
>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>
>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
>>> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
>>> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
>>> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
>> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>> me, either.
>
> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
> 2001.
>
> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
> 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
> really started making bread *after that*.
>
> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
> your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
> different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
> making that needed.
>
> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>

I do have an old bread machine from back when they were the newest hot
gadget to get. I used a few times but didnt really care for the end
result. Perhaps I just need to experiment with it more. Likewise with
the no-knead breads.
===

On good days I use it just for the knead. Works ok

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 07:38:20 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message news >
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:27:13 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 15:41:37 -0500, S Viemeister
> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/29/2018 2:56 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:30:50 -0000, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Oil or butter, depending on the recipe.
>>>>
>>>> Oil then, most of the time.
>>>>
>>>I generally use butter for sweet things, like coffee cakes. For everyday
>>>bread, generally avocado oil. I like walnut oil when I make rye bread.
>>>And yes, the fat, whether butter or oil, will definitely make it keep
>>>longer.
>>
>>I've only used olive oil occasionally so far. I'm not sure if I can
>>taste whether I've added oil and which oil, but half a loaf takes us 3
>>days to get through, so more shelf life would be good.
>>
>>==
>>
>>Pretty much the same here, so we freeze half the loaf.
>
>I always (well always, I only restarted recently) make 2 loaves at a
>time and freeze one and a half.
>
>==
>
>Sounds as though that should be working pretty well

Yes, it does

On 30 Nov 2018, Ophelia wrote
(in article >):

>
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
> >
> > I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
> > years.
> >
> > In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
> > dough, I laugh.
>
> I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
> watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
> afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
> hoping, anyway.
>
> ==
>
> Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
> didn't like it much)

I havent tried this, so feel free to pick holes in my suggestion; but
couldnt you put the dough in a bag and then use a rolling pin to knead it
with your feet while watching telly?

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 10:53:20 +0000, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
> wrote:

>On 30 Nov 2018, Ophelia wrote
>(in article >):
>
>>
>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
>> >
>> > I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
>> > years.
>> >
>> > In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
>> > dough, I laugh.
>>
>> I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
>> watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
>> afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
>> hoping, anyway.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
>> didn't like it much)
>
>I haven’t tried this, so feel free to pick holes in my suggestion; but
>couldn’t you put the dough in a bag and then use a rolling pin to knead it
>with your feet while watching telly?

Why not sit on it and wiggle?

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 8:30:33 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:30 -0800, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Bruce" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:00:07 -0800, "Cheri" >
> >
> >
> >>>But Sheldon was saying...a person eats three times as much so not much
> >>>savings calorie wise.
> >>
> >> I don't believe that.
> >
> >
> >So? He does. Dead horse.
>
> I think you'd only be happy if this newsgroup was full of braindead
> mouth breathers who buy all the prefab junk that the food industry
> offers them. That's weird because you're not even a braindead mouth
> breather yourself. You just have a soft spot for junk and for those
> who eat it.

Mmmm. Junk. They refilled the snack machine at work. I was down to
the Cheetos, but now I can choose between sour cream and onion potato
chips, chili-cheese Fritos, Cheezits, and nacho Doritos.

Cindy Hamilton

"Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
news.com...

On 30 Nov 2018, Ophelia wrote
(in article >):

>
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
> >
> > I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
> > years.
> >
> > In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
> > dough, I laugh.
>
> I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
> watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
> afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
> hoping, anyway.
>
> ==
>
> Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
> didn't like it much)

I havent tried this, so feel free to pick holes in my suggestion; but
couldnt you put the dough in a bag and then use a rolling pin to knead it
with your feet while watching telly?

==

LOL ummm errrrrrr ......what a vision!

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 10:53:20 +0000, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
> wrote:

>On 30 Nov 2018, Ophelia wrote
>(in article >):
>
>>
>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
>> >
>> > I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
>> > years.
>> >
>> > In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
>> > dough, I laugh.
>>
>> I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
>> watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
>> afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
>> hoping, anyway.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
>> didn't like it much)
>
>I havent tried this, so feel free to pick holes in my suggestion; but
>couldnt you put the dough in a bag and then use a rolling pin to knead it
>with your feet while watching telly?

Why not sit on it and wiggle?

==

You use your method and I will use mine ;p

On 11/29/2018 11:04 AM, Bruce wrote:

> I'd like to have one of those machines that
> bakeries have. You put a whole loaf in and take a sliced loaf out.


Not the same as a rotating meat slicer.

The machine you describe uses "toothed" blades and has one fer every
slice. Yes, they are quite large.

I would recommend a good bread knife and a "slicing guide".

https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Machine... ead%20Slicer

****OR*****

https://tinyurl.com/y7p6sdcw

nb

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 "cshenk" wrote:
>
>Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>2001.
>
>I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>really started making bread *after that*.
>
>Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>making that needed.

All bread recipes are a little different due to the type of bread, and
also the weather, and flour varies by lot number... wheat is a crop,
it's always different.

>I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.

A bread machine can make just as good bread as totally hand made bread
ingredients b eing the same. If one has issues with kneading simply
let the ABM do the first knead (same as using a stand mixer). The ABM
still lets you form artisan loaves... not that the loaf shape has any
bearing on bread quality. I've found the only drawback to an ABM is
it limits the amount of dough it can handle at one time, but then so
does the typical 5 quart home style stand mixer. Not many people can
hand knead more than the dough for two loaves anyway. I used to use
my ABM often but now since I can buy this company's bread in town not
so much:
http://www.heidelbergbread.com/

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 11:57:47 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 10:53:20 +0000, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
> wrote:
>
>>On 30 Nov 2018, Ophelia wrote
>>(in article >):
>>
>>>
>>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:11:52 PM UTC-10, Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
>>> > years.
>>> >
>>> > In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
>>> > dough, I laugh.
>>>
>>> I'll mix up dough in a plastic baggie and then knead the dough while I'm
>>> watching the telly. It's sort of a recreational activity for me and
>>> afterwards, I got bread dough and stronger hands. Well, that's what I'm
>>> hoping, anyway.
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Yes I copied your method and it works well. Unfortunately the hands
>>> didn't like it much)
>>
>>I haven’t tried this, so feel free to pick holes in my suggestion; but
>>couldn’t you put the dough in a bag and then use a rolling pin to knead it
>>with your feet while watching telly?
>
>Why not sit on it and wiggle?
>
>==
>
>You use your method and I will use mine ;p

Ok

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 03:39:26 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 8:30:33 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:21:30 -0800, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Bruce" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> >> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:00:07 -0800, "Cheri" >
>> >
>> >
>> >>>But Sheldon was saying...a person eats three times as much so not much
>> >>>savings calorie wise.
>> >>
>> >> I don't believe that.
>> >
>> >
>> >So? He does. Dead horse.
>>
>> I think you'd only be happy if this newsgroup was full of braindead
>> mouth breathers who buy all the prefab junk that the food industry
>> offers them. That's weird because you're not even a braindead mouth
>> breather yourself. You just have a soft spot for junk and for those
>> who eat it.
>
>Mmmm. Junk. They refilled the snack machine at work. I was down to
>the Cheetos, but now I can choose between sour cream and onion potato
>chips, chili-cheese Fritos, Cheezits, and nacho Doritos.

I'm very happy for you.

Ophelia > wrote:
>
>
> "Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news >
> cshenk > wrote:
>> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
>>>> news.com...
>>>>
>>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>>> (in article >):
>>>>
>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>>> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
>>> there is no >>> honey
>>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>>
>>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
>>>> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>>
>>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>>
>>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>>> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
>>>> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
>>>> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
>>>> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
>>> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
>>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>>> me, either.
>>
>> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>> 2001.
>>
>> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>> 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>> really started making bread *after that*.
>>
>> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>> your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>> different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>> making that needed.
>>
>> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>>
>
> I do have an old bread machine from back when they were the newest hot
> gadget to get. I used a few times but didnt really care for the end
> result. Perhaps I just need to experiment with it more. Likewise with
> the no-knead breads.
> ===
>
> On good days I use it just for the knead. Works ok
>
>
>
>
>

I think I might bring it out of the pantry and give it a whirl! The weather
has gotten so cold and snow season has begun€”fresh bread alongside a bowl
of soup is a match made in heaven.

"Jinx the Minx" > wrote in message
news
> Ophelia > wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news >>
>> cshenk > wrote:
>>> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ophelia > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
>>>>> news.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>>>> (in article >):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>>>> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
>>>> there is no >>> honey
>>>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
>>>>> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>>>> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>>>
>>>>> ==
>>>>>
>>>>> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
>>>>> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
>>>>> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
>>>>> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
>>>> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
>>>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>>>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>>>> me, either.
>>>
>>> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>>> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>>> 2001.
>>>
>>> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>>> 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>>> really started making bread *after that*.
>>>
>>> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>>> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>>> your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>>> different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>>> making that needed.
>>>
>>> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>>>
>>
>> I do have an old bread machine from back when they were the newest hot
>> gadget to get. I used a few times but didnt really care for the end
>> result. Perhaps I just need to experiment with it more. Likewise with
>> the no-knead breads.
>> ===
>>
>> On good days I use it just for the knead. Works ok
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think I might bring it out of the pantry and give it a whirl! The
> weather
> has gotten so cold and snow season has begun€”fresh bread alongside a bowl
> of soup is a match made in heaven.

I made pot roast tonight. I saved some of that and some of the veggies to
make a beef and barley soup tomorrow. I will add extra veggies and make corn
muffins. I add more corn kernels than called for and also cheese to the
batter. No egg. Applesauce instead. Works quite well.

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news
Ophelia > wrote:
>
>
> "Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news >
> cshenk > wrote:
>> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
>>>> news.com...
>>>>
>>>> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
>>>> (in article >):
>>>>
>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
>>> whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
>>> there is no >>> honey
>>>>>> or whole wheat in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
>>>>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
>>>>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
>>>>
>>>> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
>>>> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
>>>>
>>>> Flour on your hands will help.
>>>>
>>>> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
>>>> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
>>>> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
>>>> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
>>>> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
>>> to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
>>> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
>>> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading for
>>> me, either.
>>
>> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>> 2001.
>>
>> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand and
>> 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>> really started making bread *after that*.
>>
>> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy with
>> your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a little
>> different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise time
>> making that needed.
>>
>> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>>
>
> I do have an old bread machine from back when they were the newest hot
> gadget to get. I used a few times but didnt really care for the end
> result. Perhaps I just need to experiment with it more. Likewise with
> the no-knead breads.
> ===
>
> On good days I use it just for the knead. Works ok
>
>
>
>
>

I think I might bring it out of the pantry and give it a whirl! The weather
has gotten so cold and snow season has begun€”fresh bread alongside a bowl
of soup is a match made in heaven.

==

Oh yes! And you will be a heroine in your family lol

Let us know how it goes))

Boron Elgar wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:58:23 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >> Depressing, isn’t it? I’ve made bread a few times, and always
> looked >> to future days when I’d have the time to make it more
> often, and >> experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands
> took over >> before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No
> kneading for >> me, either.
> >
> > Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in
> > some ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our
> > bread since 2001.
> >
> > I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand
> > and 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues.
> > I really started making bread *after that*.
> >
> > Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
> > doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy
> > with your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a
> > little different with a bread machine, but only due to a static
> > rise time making that needed.
> >
> > I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>
> I have not used old-fashioned kneading for bread making in years and
> years.
>
> In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
> dough, I laugh.

Grin, I don't laugh but I do consider it something one does rarely and
for fun.

Day in and day out types who make bread every 3 days or so, aren't
(IMHO) apt to be doing it all by hand and if they are, they are retired
or otherwise not working more likely than not. That doesnt mean some
of us don't do some level of 'hand made' at times. Just not normally.

I can see swapping to a dough hook easily for my needs though. I'm
just used to the no-muss-no-fuss setup I have now.

Ophelia wrote:

>
>
> "cshenk" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
> >Ophelia > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> >> "Fruitiest of Fruitcakes" wrote in message
> >> news.com...
> > >
> >> On 28 Nov 2018, Gary wrote
> >> (in article >):
> > >
> >>> Julie Bove wrote:
> > > > >
> >>>> The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the honey
> >whole >>> wheat bread that I normally make. And that's weird because
> >there is no >>> honey
> >>>> or whole wheat in it.
> > > >
> >>> Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
> >>> 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
> >>> with butter is a very tasty treat.
> > > >
> >>> Anyway, congrats on your bread victory!
> > >
> >> I have been baking my own bread for 25 years.
> > >
> >> In my experience, the dough needs to be as soft as possible, but
> >> just enough flour to stop it really sticking to your fingers.
> > >
> >> Flour on your hands will help.
> > >
> >> If the dough is hard to knead, then it will not rise as much as it
> >> should. Yeasts are not superhuman.
> > >
> >> ==
> > >
> >> My days of kneading my own dough are past. Arthritis in my
> >> shoulder and hands put paid to that I had been making my own
> >> since I was a teenager. These days it is either the machine or no
> >> knead bread. I won't buy bread though.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Depressing, isnt it? Ive made bread a few times, and always looked
> > to future days when Id have the time to make it more often, and
> > experiment making different types. Sadly, my bad hands took over
> > before I ever got that chance I had been waiting for. No kneading
> > for me, either.
>
> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
> 2001.
>
> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand
> and 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
> really started making bread *after that*.
>
> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy
> with your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a
> little different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise
> time making that needed.
>
> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>
> ==
>
> No reason why you should!

Nope! But you'd be surprised at how some feel about it.

Fruitiest of Fruitcakes wrote:

> On 28 Nov 2018, Pamela wrote
> (in article >):
>
> > On 18:37 28 Nov 2018, Fruitiest of >
> > wrote in news.com:
> >
> > > On 28 Nov 2018, Bruce wrote
> > > (in >):
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 09:22:08 -0500, >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Julie Bove wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The flavor is wonderful! At first bite it reminds me of the
> > > > > > honey whole wheat bread that I normally make. And that's
> > > > > > weird because there is no honey
> > > > > > or whole wheat in it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting because lately I've been buying (and enjoying)
> > > > > 'Nature's Own' Honey Wheat Bread. Just a toasted piece of that
> > > > > with butter is a very tasty treat.
> > > >
> > > > Total crap:
> > > >
> > > > "Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour,
> > > > Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic
> > > > Acid), Water, Honey, Sugar, wheat gluten, whole wheat flour,
> > > > rye flour, wheat bran, contains 2% or less of each of the
> > > > following: yeast, soy flour, salt, soybean oil, dough
> > > > conditioners (contains one or more of the following: sodium
> > > > stearoyl lactylate, calcium stearoyl lactylate, monoglycerides,
> > > > mono and diglycerides, distilled monoglycerides, calcium
> > > > peroxide, calcium iodate, datem, ethoxylated mono and
> > > > diglycerides, enzymes, ascorbic acid), cultured wheat flour,
> > > > vinegar, calcium sulfate, yeast food (ammonium sulfate),
> > > > monocalcium phosphate, soy lecithin, calcium carbonate."
> > > >
> > > > That's worse than the paint you use! Who would eat this?
> > >
> > > Good heavens.
> > >
> > > In the UK I use Doves Farm
> > >
> > > Ingredients: wheatflour* (contains GLUTEN), ascorbic acid,
> > > statutory nutrients (calcium carbonate, iron, thiamine and
> > > niacin).
> > >
> > > Water
> > > Fat(a little)
> > > Sugar (a little)
> > > Salt (a little)
> >
> > Excellent choice! You've just gone up a notch in my estimation.
>
> Well, I suppose that is something.
>
> I tend to make more rolls these days rather than loaves, because
> rolls can be frozen individually and taken out one by one, as and
> when we need them.
>
> The only drawback with that idea, is the lack of options to put in
> the toaster. Therefore I have experimented with making the occasional
> loaf, and slicing it before freezing - but as has been mentioned,
> getting slices of a decent thickness is trial and error.
>
> My wife makes a variety of jams, and I make a variety of pates
> because I try not to eat too much sugary food - therefore toast can
> be quite popular.

I used a slicer guide for ages to get even toaster things. The main
key was you need to let the bread get fully to room temp with most
types before making the first slice.

I have a real bread knife now and it's not a problem to freehand slice
evenly with it.

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 17:04:14 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> In fact, when I see any advertising that shows a person kneading
>> dough, I laugh.
>
>Grin, I don't laugh but I do consider it something one does rarely and
>for fun.
>
>Day in and day out types who make bread every 3 days or so, aren't
>(IMHO) apt to be doing it all by hand and if they are, they are retired
>or otherwise not working more likely than not. That doesnt mean some
>of us don't do some level of 'hand made' at times. Just not normally.

I must be Superman. I can work and knead dough all in one day! Yay!

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 17:10:44 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Ophelia wrote:
>
>> "cshenk" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> Thats why I use a bread machine. I am limited by what it does in some
>> ways, but it works well. I've been making almost all our bread since
>> 2001.
>>
>> I have about 35% reduction in feeling and strength in my right hand
>> and 15% roughly same in left hand. Both are due to spinal issues. I
>> really started making bread *after that*.
>>
>> Some people will tell you that 'unless you hand knead the bread' it
>> doesnt count. Bull hocky. You can do just as fine at being happy
>> with your own produced breads as anyone else. The recipies are a
>> little different with a bread machine, but only due to a static rise
>> time making that needed.
>>
>> I make no apologies for using a machine to do the parts I cannot.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> No reason why you should!
>
>Nope! But you'd be surprised at how some feel about it.

Would they feel that you're a lazy so and so who's happy to eat subpar
bread? I don't think that at all! Who are these people?