"Gary" > wrote in message ...
>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >
>> > Hank Rogers wrote:
>> > > Exactly what are the jewish customs and rituals related to lighting
>> > > the
>> > > oven?
>> >
>> > Can't start a fire on the Sabbath. By extension, can't flip an
>> > electric
>> > switch in case it makes a spark.
>
> Do you also keep off your computer, unplug your fridge, use no
> lights on the Sabbath? Heaven forbid you create a spark. WTH???
> Why can you turn on your ceiling fan but not the light
> accidently?

I believe the fridge can run but the light can't be on. They actually make
refrigerators with Sabbath settings. I think perhaps a lot of these silly
rules came about prior to electricity. In the old days they would hire a Goy
boy to light the lights and such. Lights probably being candles or lanterns
or gas lights.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> On 5/25/2018 8:11 AM, Gary wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > Why can you turn on your ceiling fan but not the light
>> > accidently?
>> >
>>
>> It would certainly **** off my wife if she was sleeping.
>
> LOL! Seriously, if I ever get married again, wife would probably
> have to agree to separate bedrooms. Every night, my light stays
> on so I can read on and off, my tv stays on (volume low and CC
> on), bedroom fan stays on.
>
> Best to have separate bedrooms and be mates during the daytime
> hours.
I never sleep well with the fan on but sometimes it's necessary. I also
can't sleep in pitch darkness. Perhaps because the room I grew up in was
near a street light and even with a room darkening shade, some light came
in. I have a salt lamp next to my bed.

"Jinx the Minx" > wrote in message
news
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> On 5/24/2018 3:03 PM, wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Then of course they would be ingrates who should be sterilised. I
>>> think there are many who would like to be home with the kids,
>>> sometimes the father, sometimes the mother, but one parent needs much
>>> more income than they are likely to get in order to achieve that.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, but they are not the ones with nannys and other hired help.
>> Different situation.
>>
>
> Those are exactly the ones with nannies and hired help now! Im not sure
> what the big deal is having someone mow the lawn for you once a week or
> having a maid help out washing windows and mopping one day a week. Janet
> isnt speaking of homes with live-in or full time hired help. As a
> working
> mother of a school aged child, I can tell you Id much rather hire someone
> for $20 an hour to do these tasks for me than to do them myself on my
> measly two days off. I dont hire people to do these tasks for me, but I
> do pay for childcare. I dont work because I am materialistic, but
> because
> its pretty damn cold living outside without a roof over your head in
> winter here. Work is a necessity. So is childcare. Please dont confuse
> the families Janet is speaking of with families of a bygone era or of
> excessive wealth as depicted in movies and on TV.

I have a severe grass allergy and am disabled so I need to hire someone to
do at least some of then yard work and climb ladders and such.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/25/2018 8:23 AM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
>>
>> Those are exactly the ones with nannies and hired help now! Im not
>> sure
>> what the big deal is having someone mow the lawn for you once a week or
>> having a maid help out washing windows and mopping one day a week. Janet
>> isnt speaking of homes with live-in or full time hired help. As a
>> working
>> mother of a school aged child, I can tell you Id much rather hire
>> someone
>> for $20 an hour to do these tasks for me than to do them myself on my
>> measly two days off. I dont hire people to do these tasks for me, but
>> I
>> do pay for childcare. I dont work because I am materialistic, but
>> because
>> its pretty damn cold living outside without a roof over your head in
>> winter here. Work is a necessity. So is childcare. Please dont
>> confuse
>> the families Janet is speaking of with families of a bygone era or of
>> excessive wealth as depicted in movies and on TV.
>>
>
> I don't care if you have help with lawn care or cleaning if you can afford
> it. See my other post with two different scenarios. I see many
> situations where a family can do well with one modest, middle class income
> but choose to have two so they can take nicer vacations, have a boat, etc.

In my case, we were better off with me not working. By the time I would have
paid for day care and special work clothes, there would have been little to
nothing left of my income. Then she started dance when she started school.
If I had been working, I would have had to pay someone to take her to and
from there too. Plus I think if one person stays home and is willing to cook
from scratch, that saves money too.
>
> When we had kids, my wife stayed home. Others in our circle of friends
> with similar incomes made the choice of working. They had better cars,
> they took nice vacations, they had their children raised by strangers. Our
> vacation was going to the beach for the day while they went snorkeling in
> the Bahamas. It was a choice and for many, it is today.
>
> That does not include single parents, low income families that really have
> to work. Some do, but many don't.

A vacation is not something I ever desired. Perhaps I just had too many as a
child. I'd much rather stay home.

"Jinx the Minx" > wrote in message
news
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> On 5/24/2018 2:49 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>>
>>>> Not my job to be judgemental but I will be. If you have a lifestyle
>>>> that requires your kids to be raised by the hired help, you should not
>>>> have them. Do the have to have that kinds of a lifestyle? No, it is
>>>> their choice. They are putting material things ahead of family.
>>>
>>> The children are not being raised by others. Don't know where you got
>>> that from. These people have figured out to have an income and not
>>> live in their parent's basement. They are keeping their children safe
>>> and occupied. They aren't latch key kids.
>>> The days of a mother staying home to be with the kids is no longer
>>> possible. I guess they could do food stamps and seasonal employment.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>> I'm not talking about the food stamp crowd. I'm talking about the BMW
>> crowd where the wife has to work so they can have a Lincoln Navigator
>> SUV too. I'm talking the ones that have the huge house with a big
>> mortgage and they both work so they can take a cruise every winter.
>>
>> The food stamp crowd does not have nanny's. They may use grandmom.
>>
>> Today some things are different. We lived with only one TV, no cell
>> phones or iPads.
>>
>
> The food stamp crowd doesnt use grandmom€”they get childcare subsidies to
> enroll their kids at the best daycares in town. And even in a state as
> welfare friendly as MN is, the minute you start working and earning money,
> they reduce your food stamp benefits to almost nothing.
>
> Even so, its splitting hairs to draw a distinction between parents that
> use external daycare vs. daycare that comes to their home. Its exactly
> the same. And in many cases, that college €œnanny€� (in the olden days
> known
> as a babysitter) that comes over after school is cheaper!!

Yes. I know people who are nannies.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/25/2018 8:23 AM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
>>
>> The food stamp crowd doesnt use grandmom€”they get childcare subsidies to
>> enroll their kids at the best daycares in town.
>
> That's a shame. Grandmom is usually better than the best daycare.
>
>
>> Even so, its splitting hairs to draw a distinction between parents that
>> use external daycare vs. daycare that comes to their home. Its exactly
>> the same. And in many cases, that college €œnanny€� (in the olden days
>> known
>> as a babysitter) that comes over after school is cheaper!!
>>
>
> Son be it. My beef is when it is not needed. Every household is
> different.

We have a lot of people here who use the dance studio as daycare. Find
another parent to give the kid a ride and leave them there all night. Give
them a few bucks to buy dinner somewhere. Pick up when studio closes. Sad.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> On 5/25/2018 8:23 AM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > The food stamp crowd doesn?Tt use grandmom?"they get childcare
>> > subsidies to
>> > enroll their kids at the best daycares in town.
>>
>> That's a shame. Grandmom is usually better than the best daycare.
>
> The year my daughter was age 12-13 she thought she could stay
> alone while I worked but I didn't agree. I didn't want to leave
> her alone at that age. Luckily, my mom and dad moved here for a
> year and gramma took care of my daughter while I had to work.
> Going to gramma's that summer while I worked didn't seem like a
> babysitter to my daughter. It was perfect timing. Saved me lot's
> of money too.
Wow. I was babysitting at 12.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
news
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 5/25/2018 8:23 AM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The food stamp crowd doesnt use grandmom€”they get childcare
>>> subsidies to
>>> enroll their kids at the best daycares in town.
>>
>> That's a shame. Grandmom is usually better than the best daycare.
>
>
>
> Yeah, grandma raised her own kids without a lot of the modern conveniences
> so she should take care of the grandchildren, usually for free in her
> later years. A pox on that! I do know some grandmothers that are doing it,
> a couple of them are happy about it, more than that are not happy about it
> but feel that they have no choice.

Sadly, I know many who have custody of grandkids.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
> On 5/25/2018 12:58 AM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Not my job to be judgemental but I will be. If you have a lifestyle
>>> that requires your kids to be raised by the hired help, you should not
>>> have them. Do the have to have that kinds of a lifestyle? No, it is
>>> their choice. They are putting material things ahead of family.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you substituted the word €œdaycare€� or €œbabysitter€� for nanny would it
>> skew your opinion differently? Most parents nowadays have some form of
>> childcare, especially during those short before and after school hours
>> while parents work 8-5. I think the word nanny conjures up an image of
>> live-in help while mommy gets her nails done and shops the mall, but that
>> isnt what having a nanny is all about these days. Its just a fancy
>> word
>> for scheduled babysitter. The days of two parent/single breadwinner
>> households are long over. It has little to do with materialism.
>>
>
> Every situation is different and yes, changing the word (and definition)
> would change my opinion is SOME cases. Nanny is thought of as different
> from babysitter.
>
> There are plenty of people with low to modest income that need two jobs to
> survive. They often have a baby sitter, like grandmom, to help out.
>
> My beef is the two high income families that put a fancy house and cars on
> the top of the list at the expense of children. If you don't want to take
> the time to raise them, you should not have them.
>
> Look at two scenarios. One parent is a well paid person making 100K a
> year. They have a modest house (1500 sq ft) 2 kids, a fairly new Ford and
> maybe the 5 year old van. They eat well and the other parent is home to
> take care of them, meet them at the door after school.
>
> The other has one parent with the same income but the spouse is also
> adding another 75k to the income. They have a 3,500 sq. ft home, a new BMW
> and a 1 year old SUV. Since they both work, the kids go to daycare to be
> warehoused to 5:30.
>
> In the case of the second family, they are putting material things ahead
> of the children. They want the bigger house and nicer cars so they both
> work, but the reality is, they can survive with no problems on one decent
> income.

I know of far too many instances where parents essentially have other people
raise their children. And they equate love with the things they buy for
them.

One woman actually told me that she felt bad because she didn't have time to
have freshly baked cookies waiting when her kids got home from school. Then
added, "Know what I mean?" To her, somehow the cookies meant love. I just
had to say "no". My mom did bake cookies at least when I was younger but
they didn't mean much to me as I'm not a cookie lover.

I always had a nice snack for my kid but it wasn't cookies. It was something
healthy. Yeah, I baked tons of cookies in my lifetime. At one point in time
I was well known for them. But for the most part that ended when I had a
kid. We didn't have store bought or freshly baked cookies too often. We had
healthier things.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/25/2018 8:03 AM, Gary wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>> Hank Rogers wrote:
>>>> Exactly what are the jewish customs and rituals related to lighting the
>>>> oven?
>>>
>>> Can't start a fire on the Sabbath. By extension, can't flip an electric
>>> switch in case it makes a spark.
>>>
>>> They make moveable covers for light switches so you can't accidentally
>>> break the rules. I've got a couple so I don't, for example,
>>> accidentally
>>> turn on the overhead light in the bedroom in the middle of the night
>>> when I'm trying to turn the ceiling fan on. Both the light and the
>>> fan have a decora switch, and it's easy to accidentally brush one when
>>> aiming for the other, in the dark.
>>
>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>
>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>> various religions.
>>
>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they think
>> they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>
>
> As a kid, I never understood that is is taboo to eat a leftover hot dog on
> Friday, but I could have the shrimp and lobster special. I was never good
> at following organized religion rules.

Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who were
offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat what we
want. We just don't drink.

Julie Bove wrote:
> I can remember dining with Catholics who were
> offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat what we
> want. We just don't drink.

That doesn't sound very fun either, Julie.

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> In my case, we were better off with me not working. By the time I would have
> paid for day care and special work clothes, there would have been little to
> nothing left of my income. Then she started dance when she started school.
> If I had been working, I would have had to pay someone to take her to and
> from there too. Plus I think if one person stays home and is willing to cook
> from scratch, that saves money too.

This is very true about one spouse working and most of their
earnings go to child care. Plus it's been proven that staying
home with a child at least until they start school (age 5-6) is
beneficial for the child.

Once I became a single parent, I walked away from a good job with
many benefits and took a chance on starting my own business. Goal
was to be able to be home for my daughter and not leave her alone
or with others often. It succeeded. All of her school years from
3rd grade on, I was able to be home and see her off to school,
then I left for work, worked 6.5 hours a day (skipping lunch) and
then get home right before she got home.

She knew I worked but it was like I didn't. I was always home for
her. Summers were different but I had a series of very nice local
babysitters who took care of her well. It all worked out fine.


> A vacation is not something I ever desired. Perhaps I just had too many as a
> child. I'd much rather stay home.

Even when I took a traveling vacation, I always allowed for some
home time too.
One year, I took my 2-week paid vacation and made the mistake of
telling boss that I was staying here, not going somewhere. He
actually got mad. He couldn't understand taking vacation time and
not going anywhere. He figured you might as well work if you
don't go anywhere.

I told him how many people save up all year to come to Virginia
Beach for a week or two. I didn't have to save up...I live here.
I enjoy the ocean just as much as other vacationers do. My
vacation was from work, not location.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:23:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>> On 5/25/2018 8:03 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hank Rogers wrote:
>>>>> Exactly what are the jewish customs and rituals related to lighting the
>>>>> oven?
>>>>
>>>> Can't start a fire on the Sabbath. By extension, can't flip an electric
>>>> switch in case it makes a spark.
>>>>
>>>> They make moveable covers for light switches so you can't accidentally
>>>> break the rules. I've got a couple so I don't, for example,
>>>> accidentally
>>>> turn on the overhead light in the bedroom in the middle of the night
>>>> when I'm trying to turn the ceiling fan on. Both the light and the
>>>> fan have a decora switch, and it's easy to accidentally brush one when
>>>> aiming for the other, in the dark.
>>>
>>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>>
>>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>>> various religions.
>>>
>>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they think
>>> they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>>
>>
>> As a kid, I never understood that is is taboo to eat a leftover hot dog on
>> Friday, but I could have the shrimp and lobster special. I was never good
>> at following organized religion rules.
>
>Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who were
>offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat what we
>want. We just don't drink.

That's even worse!

On Sat, 26 May 2018 06:30:55 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Julie Bove wrote:
>> I can remember dining with Catholics who were
>> offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat what we
>> want. We just don't drink.
>
>That doesn't sound very fun either, Julie.

Yep, nothing like a glass of wine with my hamburger!

On Fri, 25 May 2018 19:19:15 -0700, Leonard Blaisdell
> wrote:

>In article >,
> wrote:
>
>> If I need anything done, he's right there to do it. People often
>> wonder why he is crazy about spitfires, he tells them it was his crazy
>> grandmother who filled his head with the glories of spitfires
>
>Let's not forget Hurricanes. They did their part.
>
>[ObFood] Ham 'n pinto beans and questionable garlic bread from a sealed
>bag that might be past it's expiration date. I couldn't find the date,
>but I toasted it extra long. I'm keeping an eye on my wife since I
>haven't eaten any of it yet. Wish us luck!
>
>leo

Not with the je ne sais quoi of the spits.

I'm sure you are both still alive, I often eat stuff beyond the date,
I think it refers mostly to flavour and how the product has been
stored.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:02:06 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Fri 25 May 2018 07:19:15p, Leonard Blaisdell told us...
>
>> In article >,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> If I need anything done, he's right there to do it. People often
>>> wonder why he is crazy about spitfires, he tells them it was his
>>> crazy grandmother who filled his head with the glories of
>>> spitfires
>>
>> Let's not forget Hurricanes. They did their part.
>>
>> [ObFood] Ham 'n pinto beans and questionable garlic bread from a
>> sealed bag that might be past it's expiration date. I couldn't
>> find the date, but I toasted it extra long. I'm keeping an eye on
>> my wife since I haven't eaten any of it yet. Wish us luck!
>>
>> leo
>>
>
>Then she's your test case?

The Kings taster ?

On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:11:14 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Fri 25 May 2018 07:51:42p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:58:05 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 09:14:04 -0700, "Cheri"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 8:02:48 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not Jewish. Never was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>>>>>>> various religions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>>>>>>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they
>>>>>>> think they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you drink water during the day? They don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And who is to say that someone elses religion is "nonsense."
>>>>>Pretty arrogant statement.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that "To each their own" also applies to
>>>> religion? Can't we have an opinion about anything at all? That's
>>>> hard!
>>>
>>>
>>>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's
>>>an attack.
>>>
>>>Cheri
>>
>> Exactly.
>> Janet US
>>
>
>I prefer not discussing either religion or politics with anyone,
>individuals or groups. If I'm with a group of friends and either of
>those topics become a discussion I simply leave the room.

We had a group of friends in the 80s and we all did dinner parties for
the express reason of sitting down and discussing religion, sex and
politics, normally the three verboten subjects. We had some wild
conversations, it was great fun and nobody fell out over it.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:09:04 +0300, Opinicus
> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 May 2018 20:05:18 -0300, wrote:
>
>> I enjoyed my grandchildren much more than my kids, all the
>> fun and none of the responsibilities
>
>One reason why grandchildren and grandparents get on so well is
>because they have a common enemy.

lol - one way of looking at it

wrote:
>
> On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:09:04 +0300, Opinicus
> > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 25 May 2018 20:05:18 -0300, wrote:
> >
> >> I enjoyed my grandchildren much more than my kids, all the
> >> fun and none of the responsibilities
> >
> >One reason why grandchildren and grandparents get on so well is
> >because they have a common enemy.
>
> lol - one way of looking at it

I missed that. So funny!

"U.S. Janet B." wrote:
>
> "Cheri" wrote:
> >Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's an
> >attack.
> >
> >Cheri
>
> Exactly.
> Janet US

You two are twisting my words again and are understandably
resentful.
I'm not proud of my outburst but 3 "ladies" here deserved it.
Remember, you drew "first blood."

Kick your friendly pet dog enough times and it will will bite you
too.
Don't then blame the dog for being evil.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:41:52 -0300, wrote:

>On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:11:14 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri 25 May 2018 07:51:42p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>>I prefer not discussing either religion or politics with anyone,
>>individuals or groups. If I'm with a group of friends and either of
>>those topics become a discussion I simply leave the room.
>
>We had a group of friends in the 80s and we all did dinner parties for
>the express reason of sitting down and discussing religion, sex and
>politics, normally the three verboten subjects. We had some wild
>conversations, it was great fun and nobody fell out over it.

Did you ever see a pompous guy leave the room when those discussions
started?

On 5/26/2018 3:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>

>> Do you also keep off your computer, unplug your fridge, use no
>> lights on the Sabbath? Heaven forbid you create a spark.Â* WTH???
>> Why can you turn on your ceiling fan but not the light
>> accidently?
>
> I believe the fridge can run but the light can't be on. They actually
> make refrigerators with Sabbath settings. I think perhaps a lot of these
> silly rules came about prior to electricity. In the old days they would
> hire a Goy boy to light the lights and such. Lights probably being
> candles or lanterns or gas lights.

Seems overly restrictive by interpretation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode
Halakha forbids Jews from doing creative work on the Shabbat. Observant
Jews interpret this to include various activities including making a
fire, preparing food, or even closing a switch or pressing an electronic
button. A range of technology solutions have been created for those who
need to use electronic (or electronic-controlled) devices on the
Shabbat,[3][4][5] including a special "sabbath mode" for otherwise
standard appliances.

Use of the term Sabbath mode has been made by manufacturers and does not
always guarantee full compliance with religious requirements. Appliances
sold with certification from a halachic certification authority will
have been audited and judged to be compliant with that authoritys
requirement

On Sat, 26 May 2018 11:26:43 GMT, "l not -l" > wrote:

>
>On 26-May-2018, wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/2018 7:33 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> > Even with central AC I couldn't sleep without the ceiling fan.
>> >
>> > Jill
>>
>> Ours is on at night all summer with the AC on.
>
>I have two ceiling fans in my house. They run 24 hours a day, year round;
>direction determined by season. My home has cathedral ceilings and the fans
>do a good job of keeping even temperatures throughout the house.

Ghe, I've never heard of fan addiction before.

On 5/26/2018 6:23 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>

> Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who
> were offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat
> what we want. We just don't drink.

There are variations of this:
The Catholics don't recognize the Episcopals; The Jews don't recognize
the Muslims; Methodists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

On 5/25/2018 11:37 PM, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> In article 23>, Wayne
> Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Then she's your test case?
>
> Yep. She is fully cognizant of the risks. She couldn't find the
> expiration date either. We will both go down by tomorrow afternoon if I
> made a mistake. I'm reasonably confident that I didn't ;-)

You couldn't risk both of you becoming ill! One of you has to get
help if it goes bad.

nancy

On 2018-05-26 5:45 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/26/2018 3:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>>> Do you also keep off your computer, unplug your fridge, use no
>>> lights on the Sabbath? Heaven forbid you create a spark.Â* WTH???
>>> Why can you turn on your ceiling fan but not the light
>>> accidently?
>>
>> I believe the fridge can run but the light can't be on. They actually
>> make refrigerators with Sabbath settings. I think perhaps a lot of
>> these silly rules came about prior to electricity. In the old days
>> they would hire a Goy boy to light the lights and such. Lights
>> probably being candles or lanterns or gas lights.
>
> Seems overly restrictive by interpretation
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode
> Halakha forbids Jews from doing creative work on the Shabbat. Observant
> Jews interpret this to include various activities including making a
> fire, preparing food, or even closing a switch or pressing an electronic
> button. A range of technology solutions have been created for those who
> need to use electronic (or electronic-controlled) devices on the
> Shabbat,[3][4][5] including a special "sabbath mode" for otherwise
> standard appliances.
>
> Use of the term Sabbath mode has been made by manufacturers and does not
> always guarantee full compliance with religious requirements. Appliances
> sold with certification from a halachic certification authority will
> have been audited and judged to be compliant with that authoritys
> requirement

First they erect a series of rules then they work out a way of getting
around them!

On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:55:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 5/26/2018 6:23 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>
>> Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who
>> were offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat
>> what we want. We just don't drink.
>
>There are variations of this:
>The Catholics don't recognize the Episcopals; The Jews don't recognize
>the Muslims; Methodists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

Thanks! I needed a laugh this morning When we lived in Japan, in
those days, most of the doctors were 7th Day Adventist. My father was
friendly with one who liked sailing so he and his family would join us
at the cottage for the weekend. My mother would go to great pains to
make sure they could adhere to their diet while with us and you should
have seen them tuck into stew etc. Finally she asked about it
(feeling somewhat annoyed) and he told her in the circumstances that
they were with no other available food etc. there was special
dispensation. Never mind she had the right stuff on hand!!! After
that she didn't bother.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 06:47:34 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2018-05-26 5:45 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/26/2018 3:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> Do you also keep off your computer, unplug your fridge, use no
>>>> lights on the Sabbath? Heaven forbid you create a spark.* WTH???
>>>> Why can you turn on your ceiling fan but not the light
>>>> accidently?
>>>
>>> I believe the fridge can run but the light can't be on. They actually
>>> make refrigerators with Sabbath settings. I think perhaps a lot of
>>> these silly rules came about prior to electricity. In the old days
>>> they would hire a Goy boy to light the lights and such. Lights
>>> probably being candles or lanterns or gas lights.
>>
>> Seems overly restrictive by interpretation
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode
>> Halakha forbids Jews from doing creative work on the Shabbat. Observant
>> Jews interpret this to include various activities including making a
>> fire, preparing food, or even closing a switch or pressing an electronic
>> button. A range of technology solutions have been created for those who
>> need to use electronic (or electronic-controlled) devices on the
>> Shabbat,[3][4][5] including a special "sabbath mode" for otherwise
>> standard appliances.
>>
>> Use of the term Sabbath mode has been made by manufacturers and does not
>> always guarantee full compliance with religious requirements. Appliances
>> sold with certification from a halachic certification authority will
>> have been audited and judged to be compliant with that authority’s
>> requirement
>
>First they erect a series of rules then they work out a way of getting
>around them!

Yeah, take the U.S. laws and rules regarding the president of the
united states for instance. Man, those Catholics, Jews and Muslims
are sure hard liners.
Janet US

On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:23:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>snip.
>
>Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who were
>offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat what we
>want. We just don't drink.

You must have had some really rude Catholic friends. I never had a
Catholic friend of mine even mention what I ate when we went out
together on Fridays.
Janet US

On Sat, 26 May 2018 09:57:04 -0300, wrote:

>On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:55:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 5/26/2018 6:23 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> Thankfully, I didn't have to. I can remember dining with Catholics who
>>> were offended that I ate meat on a Friday. Oh well. Methodists can eat
>>> what we want. We just don't drink.
>>
>>There are variations of this:
>>The Catholics don't recognize the Episcopals; The Jews don't recognize
>>the Muslims; Methodists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.
>
>Thanks! I needed a laugh this morning When we lived in Japan, in
>those days, most of the doctors were 7th Day Adventist. My father was
>friendly with one who liked sailing so he and his family would join us
>at the cottage for the weekend. My mother would go to great pains to
>make sure they could adhere to their diet while with us and you should
>have seen them tuck into stew etc. Finally she asked about it
>(feeling somewhat annoyed) and he told her in the circumstances that
>they were with no other available food etc. there was special
>dispensation. Never mind she had the right stuff on hand!!! After
>that she didn't bother.

Kind of like people going off their diet, hmmm?
Janet US

On Fri, 25 May 2018 21:09:12 -0700, wrote:

>On Fri, 25 May 2018 20:50:29 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 May 2018 16:05:39 -0700, wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 May 2018 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Most of those religious practices boil down to a way to
>>>>identify who's in the tribe and who isn't.
>>>
>>>Religion is ALL about control.
>>>
>>>Giving control of a group over to a few NON-elected persons.
>>>
>>It seems to me that everyone everywhere should go back to a little
>>control and respect.
>
>You WANT trumpian style control??????
>
trump has no control and no brain

On Sat, 26 May 2018 15:48:14 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:11:14 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri 25 May 2018 07:51:42p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>
>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:58:05 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 09:14:04 -0700, "Cheri"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>And who is to say that someone elses religion is "nonsense."
>>>>>>Pretty arrogant statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying that "To each their own" also applies to
>>>>> religion? Can't we have an opinion about anything at all? That's
>>>>> hard!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's
>>>>an attack.
>>>>
>>>>Cheri
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>>I prefer not discussing either religion or politics with anyone,
>>individuals or groups. If I'm with a group of friends and either of
>>those topics become a discussion I simply leave the room.
>
>LOL, that's so pompous!

How is it pompous? I don't want to discuss religion or politics
either, I also don't like to discuss other's personal finances. Why,
because those three topics very quickly go from discussion to
argument.

On Sat, 26 May 2018 07:41:52 -0300, wrote:

>On Sat, 26 May 2018 03:11:14 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri 25 May 2018 07:51:42p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>
>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:58:05 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 09:14:04 -0700, "Cheri"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 8:02:48 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not Jewish. Never was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>>>>>>>> various religions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>>>>>>>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they
>>>>>>>> think they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you drink water during the day? They don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And who is to say that someone elses religion is "nonsense."
>>>>>>Pretty arrogant statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying that "To each their own" also applies to
>>>>> religion? Can't we have an opinion about anything at all? That's
>>>>> hard!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's
>>>>an attack.
>>>>
>>>>Cheri
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> Janet US
>>>
>>
>>I prefer not discussing either religion or politics with anyone,
>>individuals or groups. If I'm with a group of friends and either of
>>those topics become a discussion I simply leave the room.
>
>We had a group of friends in the 80s and we all did dinner parties for
>the express reason of sitting down and discussing religion, sex and
>politics, normally the three verboten subjects. We had some wild
>conversations, it was great fun and nobody fell out over it.

In other words you all sat around enjoyng a good out-lying each other.

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:58:05 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 09:14:04 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 8:02:48 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not Jewish. Never was.
>>>>
>>>>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>>>>> various religions.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>>>>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they think
>>>>> they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Do you drink water during the day? They don't.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>>
>>>And who is to say that someone elses religion is "nonsense." Pretty
>>>arrogant
>>>statement.
>>
>> Are you saying that "To each their own" also applies to religion?
>> Can't we have an opinion about anything at all? That's hard!
>
>
>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's an
>attack.
>
>Cheri

I don't like labeling. All it does is identifies groups of people
that we can hate and abuse for no reason at all. Labeling makes
pulling a
knife and a taser on a couple of Egyptian Muslim exchange students
eating a McDonalds burger in their car just fine and dandy.
Janet US

On Sat, 26 May 2018 13:29:10 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:58:05 -0700, "Cheri" >
>wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 09:14:04 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 8:02:48 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't you modern jewish ppl see the silliness in all this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not Jewish. Never was.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I do believe in a God but not all this nonsense spouted by
>>>>>> various religions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Muslim dawn-to-dusk fasting during the month of Ramadan
>>>>>> really cracks me up. Heck, I do that all year long and they think
>>>>>> they are making some sacrifice? LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you drink water during the day? They don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And who is to say that someone elses religion is "nonsense." Pretty
>>>>arrogant
>>>>statement.
>>>
>>> Are you saying that "To each their own" also applies to religion?
>>> Can't we have an opinion about anything at all? That's hard!
>>
>>
>>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's an
>>attack.
>
>He didn't say their whole religion was nonsense, but certain aspects
>of it.

That's still an attack.

On Fri, 25 May 2018 21:10:29 -0700, wrote:

>On Fri, 25 May 2018 20:51:42 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's an
>>>attack.
>>>
>>>Cheri
>>
>>Exactly.
>>Janet US
>
>I'm NOT prejudiced, I hate ALL religions equally.
>
>
How about biologists or farmers or people like you? Should we hate
people like you?

On Sat, 26 May 2018 06:47:05 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>"U.S. Janet B." wrote:
>>
>> "Cheri" wrote:
>> >Telling someone their religion is nonsense is not an opinion, it's an
>> >attack.
>> >
>> >Cheri
>>
>> Exactly.
>> Janet US
>
>You two are twisting my words again and are understandably
>resentful.
>I'm not proud of my outburst but 3 "ladies" here deserved it.
>Remember, you drew "first blood."
>
>Kick your friendly pet dog enough times and it will will bite you
>too.
>Don't then blame the dog for being evil.

Get over yourself little man. The conversation has gone way past you
and your little remark. Other more intelligent people are involved in
a more broad concept now than -- what was it again that you said?

On Sat, 26 May 2018 13:25:19 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Fri, 25 May 2018 20:50:29 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 May 2018 16:05:39 -0700, wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 May 2018 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Most of those religious practices boil down to a way to
>>>>identify who's in the tribe and who isn't.
>>>
>>>Religion is ALL about control.
>>>
>>>Giving control of a group over to a few NON-elected persons.
>>>
>>It seems to me that everyone everywhere should go back to a little
>>control and respect.
>
>There's nothing wrong with an opinion expressed in a non offensive way
>like that.

The control and respect embodied in all religions is in substance 'do
as I say but not as I do'.

On 5/26/2018 8:47 AM, graham wrote:

> First they erect a series of rules then they work out a way of getting
> around them!

They have battles around here over eruvs, where they attach something
to telephone poles surrounding a community so some of the rules can
be nullified. The utilities take a dim view of this.

It's just too ingrained to follow the rules, most of us would say
the heck with that if we didn't like it.

I worked with an Orthodox Jewish woman, she went into labor on the
Sabbath and the cops took her to the hospital. She cowered in the
back seat so her neighbors wouldn't see her in a car. You'd think
they'd be happy for her, having her baby but it's all about the
rules.

I wouldn't do well.

nancy

On 5/26/2018 9:43 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:

> trump has no control and no brain

+1

nancy