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Making Corned beef and Pastrami
How do I make my own corned beef? For best results, use trimmed briskets. Start with a curing brine. This recipe makes enough for 25 lbs of meat. 5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F) 8 oz. salt 3 oz. Prague Powder #1 3 oz. powdered dextrose Spray pump the briskets to about 12-15% of their original weight. After pumping, the briskets are packed in a vat, and sprinkled with whole pickling spice. If more than one brisket is done at a time, pack them flesh to flesh with the fat sides out. Add enough brine to cover and allow to cure for 3-4 days at 38-40F. The meat is then ready to use (but still requires cooking). What is pastrami and how do I make my own? For best results, use trimmed briskets. Start with a curing brine. This makes enough for 25 lbs of meat. 5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F) 8 oz. salt 5 oz. Prague Powder #1 5 oz. powdered dextrose 1 Tb garlic juice Prepare and cure as for corned beef. After curing, remove from brine and rub liberally with cracked black pepper and coriander seeds. Smoke at 140F until the meat is dry and then increase smoker temperature to 200-220F and hold until internal temperature of meat reaches 170-180F. Chill overnight before using. This meat is fully cooked. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... How do I make my own corned beef? For best results, use trimmed briskets. Start with a curing brine. This recipe makes enough for 25 lbs of meat. 5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F) 8 oz. salt 3 oz. Prague Powder #1 3 oz. powdered dextrose Spray pump the briskets to about 12-15% of their original weight. After pumping, the briskets are packed in a vat, and sprinkled with whole pickling spice. If more than one brisket is done at a time, pack them flesh to flesh with the fat sides out. Add enough brine to cover and allow to cure for 3-4 days at 38-40F. The meat is then ready to use (but still requires cooking). What is pastrami and how do I make my own? For best results, use trimmed briskets. Start with a curing brine. This makes enough for 25 lbs of meat. 5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F) 8 oz. salt 5 oz. Prague Powder #1 5 oz. powdered dextrose 1 Tb garlic juice Prepare and cure as for corned beef. After curing, remove from brine and rub liberally with cracked black pepper and coriander seeds. Smoke at 140F until the meat is dry and then increase smoker temperature to 200-220F and hold until internal temperature of meat reaches 170-180F. Chill overnight before using. This meat is fully cooked. == Thanks, I have saved that. We can't get Prague powder. I have Prontocure. I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> Thanks, I have saved that.Â* We can't get Prague powder. I have > Prontocure. I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. > Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> > > == > > Thanks, I have saved that.Â* We can't get Prague powder. I have > Prontocure. I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. > > Probably the same thing under a different name. Instacure,Speedcure are others. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 19:58:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: >> > >> >> == >> >> Thanks, I have saved that.* We can't get Prague powder. I have >> Prontocure. I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. >> >> > >Probably the same thing under a different name. Instacure,Speedcure are >others. The critical ingredient to prevent greying is the sodium nitrite. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"S Viemeister" wrote in message ... On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: > Thanks, I have saved that. We can't get Prague powder. I have Prontocure. > I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. > Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. == Ahh thanks:) Is it very different to Prontocure? I have a great big bag of that so I am not sure I want to buy something else. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister"Â* wrote in message ... > On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: >> Thanks, I have saved that.Â* We can't get Prague powder. I have >> Prontocure. >> I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. >> > Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. > > == > > Ahh thanks:)Â* Is it very different to Prontocure?Â* I have a great big > bag of > that so I am not sure I want to buy something else. I'm not sure, but I _think_ Prontocure is more like Prague powder #2. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"S Viemeister" wrote in message ... On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > "S Viemeister" wrote in message ... > On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: >> Thanks, I have saved that. We can't get Prague powder. I have >> Prontocure. >> I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. >> > Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. > > == > > Ahh thanks:) Is it very different to Prontocure? I have a great big > bag of > that so I am not sure I want to buy something else. I'm not sure, but I _think_ Prontocure is more like Prague powder #2. == What is the difference between 1 and 2? |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"Ophelia" wrote in message ... "S Viemeister" wrote in message ... On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > "S Viemeister" wrote in message ... > On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: >> Thanks, I have saved that. We can't get Prague powder. I have >> Prontocure. >> I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. >> > Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. > > == > > Ahh thanks:) Is it very different to Prontocure? I have a great big bag > of > that so I am not sure I want to buy something else. I'm not sure, but I _think_ Prontocure is more like Prague powder #2. == What is the difference between 1 and 2? == Ok found it: https://delishably.com/meat-dishes/W...u-Need-and-Why |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister
> wrote: >On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: >> "S Viemeister"* wrote in message ... >> On 3/12/2018 5:27 PM, Ophelia wrote: >>> Thanks, I have saved that.* We can't get Prague powder. I have >>> Prontocure. >>> I explained what it is in another post about corned beef. >>> >> Prague powder #1 is now available on AmazonUK. >> >> == >> >> Ahh thanks:)* Is it very different to Prontocure?* I have a great big >> bag of >> that so I am not sure I want to buy something else. > >I'm not sure, but I _think_ Prontocure is more like Prague powder #2. ProntoCure is 99.4% salt, and .6% Sodium Nitrite. PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
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Making Corned beef and Pastrami
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Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> On 2018-03-13 7:47 AM, wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister > > > wrote: > > > >> On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > > > > > PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. > > It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. > > > With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are really > necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. Sure, if you like gray corned beef rather than pink. Cindy Hamilton |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 2018-03-13 9:40 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> > > "graham"Â* wrote in message ... > > On 2018-03-13 7:47 AM, wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister >> > wrote: >> >>> On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > >> >> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >> > With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are really > necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. > > Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? > > Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:))Â* Or where you not referring > to that? No, it was that I read a study some years ago that questioned using those two oxidants that may have been necessary 100 years ago but possibly not any more. The nitrite was added to preserve colour and later was found to be a good bactericide and fungicide so was then thought necessary. There has been work to suggest that the nitrite is the chief culprit in forming nitrosamines, nasty carcinogens. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 3/13/2018 11:31 AM, graham wrote:
>> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >> > With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are really > necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. More tradition than need. The nitrates give it color if that is important to you.. I imagine it greatly increases shelf life, but in reality, how long do you expect it to last? Freezing was not an option 100 years ago, now you can keep it for years. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 2018-03-13 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/13/2018 11:31 AM, graham wrote: > >>> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >>> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >>> >> With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are >> really necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. > > More tradition than need.Â* The nitrates give it color if that is > important to you.. I imagine it greatly increases shelf life, but in > reality, how long do you expect it to last?Â* Freezing was not an option > 100 years ago, now you can keep it for years. Precisely. And there are some serious health concerns over the use of nitrates and especially nitrites. Is colour that important? I dunno! |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"graham" wrote in message ... On 2018-03-13 9:40 AM, Ophelia wrote: > > > "graham" wrote in message ... > > On 2018-03-13 7:47 AM, wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister >> > wrote: >> >>> On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > >> >> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >> > With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are really > necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. > > Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? > > Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not referring > to that? No, it was that I read a study some years ago that questioned using those two oxidants that may have been necessary 100 years ago but possibly not any more. The nitrite was added to preserve colour and later was found to be a good bactericide and fungicide so was then thought necessary. There has been work to suggest that the nitrite is the chief culprit in forming nitrosamines, nasty carcinogens. == Yes, I had read about carcinogens from some foods, but I have stopped worrying. We eat so few preserved foods I don't think it is a problem. We have never had corned beef *not* in a can and I wanted to see what the 'real thang' is like :) |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message 9.45... On Tue 13 Mar 2018 08:40:43a, Ophelia told us... > > > "graham" wrote in message ... > > On 2018-03-13 7:47 AM, wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister >> > wrote: >> >>> On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: > >> >> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >> > With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are > really necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. > > Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is > done?? > > Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not > referring to that? > > Since it isn't a cured meat I would definitely keep it in the refrigerator. Corning meat does not really "preserve" it. Back in the days when many people had smokehouses it was common to preserve pork and beef and probaby some other meats, but that was a totally different process. Wayne Boatwright == So, really, all this is for the colour, yes? I am hoping too that D will like the flavour. I love to experiment, so we will see how this one goes:) |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message 9.45... On Tue 13 Mar 2018 11:57:59a, Ophelia told us... > > > "graham" wrote in message ... > > On 2018-03-13 9:40 AM, Ophelia wrote: >> >> >> "graham" wrote in message ... >> >> On 2018-03-13 7:47 AM, wrote: >>> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 07:41:49 -0400, S Viemeister >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/13/2018 4:23 AM, Ophelia wrote: >> >>> >>> PP#2 is over 5% Sodium Nitrite and over 4% Sodium Nitrate. >>> It is designed for UNCOOKED cured meats, like sausages. >>> >> With all that salt and modern fridges, I wonder if these two are >> really necessary. AIUI, the nitrite certainly isn't. >> >> Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is >> done?? >> >> Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not >> referring to that? > No, it was that I read a study some years ago that questioned > using those two oxidants that may have been necessary 100 years > ago but possibly not any more. > The nitrite was added to preserve colour and later was found to be > a good bactericide and fungicide so was then thought necessary. > There has been work to suggest that the nitrite is the chief > culprit in forming nitrosamines, nasty carcinogens. > > == > > Yes, I had read about carcinogens from some foods, but I have > stopped worrying. We eat so few preserved foods I don't think it > is a problem. > > We have never had corned beef *not* in a can and I wanted to see > what the 'real thang' is like :) At leasat in the southern US it ws commonplace to cure and smoke your own meat, especially bacon and ham. I don't know the formula, but is was predominantly sugar and salt. The hung it in the smoke house fueled by a smoldering fire proucing the smoke. I can't remember how long that took. I remember my father's parents had a large capacity smokehoue and at peak season it was loaded with meat. They and their neighbors raised and butchered hogs together. The best ham and streaky bacon I've eaten. I buy all our pork, either fresh or cured, from The Pork Shop. Absolutely top quality. http://theporkshopaz.com/menu.html Wayne Boatwright == Nice:)) |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 3/13/2018 3:36 PM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> >> So, really, all this is for the colour, yes? I am hoping too that >> D will like the flavour. >> >> I love to experiment, so we will see how this one goes:) > > Yes, the nitrate is for the color, which is what most people expect > when they buy corned beef. The flavor would not be altered. > > We can buy gray corned beef here. Some prefer it but I'd guess less than 10% of the sales. More expensive as the red is used as a loss leader this week. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 5:40:51 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> > Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? > > Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not referring to > that? The corning was done back in the days when there was no refrigeration to preserve meat. Ireland, at one time, supplied the Brits and Europeans with much of the salted beef. It's an interesting recreation of archaic meat preservation so I guess you wouldn't need to use refrigeration. Well, that's the theory anyway. The brisket the Americans will eat this Saturday isn't really Irish - it's Jewish in origin. Oy vey! |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"dsi1" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 5:40:51 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote: > > Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? > > Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not referring > to > that? The corning was done back in the days when there was no refrigeration to preserve meat. Ireland, at one time, supplied the Brits and Europeans with much of the salted beef. It's an interesting recreation of archaic meat preservation so I guess you wouldn't need to use refrigeration. Well, that's the theory anyway. The brisket the Americans will eat this Saturday isn't really Irish - it's Jewish in origin. Oy vey! == Thanks:) ... and Oy vey indeed:)) |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
"dsi1" wrote in message
>On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 5:40:51 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote: >> >> Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? >> >> Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not referring >> to that? > >The corning was done back in the days when there was no refrigeration to >preserve meat. There most definitely was refrigeration, just not modern refrigeration... since forever people used ice houses, and the ice-a-box. There were once countless ice houses where I live, even now there's a good 2' of snow on the ground and where I pushed it with plowing I made 10' high mountains that will last well into May. I grew up with an ice-a-box, the ice-a-man brought a block of ice each week. In winter we used a galvanized steel box built into the kitchen wall, a handy winter freezer. Even now I use my unheated garage for refrigeration/freezing.... great for cooling down a 24 qt. pot of soup, and then the next day after portioning those plastic containers will freeze solid over night, then as the temps begin to warm the uneaten portions go into my freezer. Some resourceful people around here sink wooden boxes into a creek to use for food storage, as snow higher up melts the creeks stay ice cold well into summer. There has always been refrigeration. https://www.schodack.org/historian/p...-town-schodack |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:33:45 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: >On 2018-03-14 11:12 AM, wrote: >> "dsi1" wrote in message >>> On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 5:40:51 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote: >>>> >>>> Are you saying I won't need to refrigerate my brisket when it is done?? >>>> >>>> Hmm I don't think I want to take a chance:)) Or where you not referring >>>> to that? >>> >>> The corning was done back in the days when there was no refrigeration to >>> preserve meat. >> >> There most definitely was refrigeration, just not modern >> refrigeration... since forever people used ice houses, and the >> ice-a-box. > >In order to have ice houses back in the old days you had to have access >to ice. That was certainly not a problem where you and I live. Men >would go out on the frozen rivers and legs and cut out big blocks of it >and take then to storage facilities where they were stored. Those big >slabs were then cut up into smaller blocks and delivered to homes and >businesses. I remember seeing that when I was a kid, and even going to >ice stores to get ice for picnics and cottages. The ice was piled high >and covered with sawdust for insulation. > >Back in horse and buggy days I imagine that it was just too much work >and expense to ship ice in the blistering heat of summer. If you read the link I included at the bottom it explained all that... and it was very easy to ship block ice in warm weather, how it was done when there were only ice-a-boxes. >There were once countless ice houses where I live, even >> now there's a good 2' of snow on the ground and where I pushed it with >> plowing I made 10' high mountains that will last well into May. I >> grew up with an ice-a-box, the ice-a-man brought a block of ice each >> week. In winter we used a galvanized steel box built into the kitchen >> wall, a handy winter freezer. Even now I use my unheated garage for >> refrigeration/freezing.... great for cooling down a 24 qt. pot of >> soup, and then the next day after portioning those plastic containers >> will freeze solid over night, then as the temps begin to warm the >> uneaten portions go into my freezer. >> >> Some resourceful people around here sink wooden boxes into a creek to >> use for food storage, as snow higher up melts the creeks stay ice cold >> well into summer. There has always been refrigeration. >> https://www.schodack.org/historian/p...-town-schodack |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On 2018-03-14 12:52 PM, wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:33:45 -0400, Dave Smith > > wrote: > >>> There most definitely was refrigeration, just not modern >>> refrigeration... since forever people used ice houses, and the >>> ice-a-box. >> >> In order to have ice houses back in the old days you had to have access >> to ice. That was certainly not a problem where you and I live. Men >> would go out on the frozen rivers and legs and cut out big blocks of it >> and take then to storage facilities where they were stored. Those big >> slabs were then cut up into smaller blocks and delivered to homes and >> businesses. I remember seeing that when I was a kid, and even going to >> ice stores to get ice for picnics and cottages. The ice was piled high >> and covered with sawdust for insulation. >> >> Back in horse and buggy days I imagine that it was just too much work >> and expense to ship ice in the blistering heat of summer. > > If you read the link I included at the bottom it explained all that... > and it was very easy to ship block ice in warm weather, how it was > done when there were only ice-a-boxes. It explained how they shipped the ice from Schodack to New York. I was thinking of places like Texas, a fair distance from frozen lakes, mountains, and shipping canals. >> There were once countless ice houses where I live, even >>> now there's a good 2' of snow on the ground and where I pushed it with >>> plowing I made 10' high mountains that will last well into May. I >>> grew up with an ice-a-box, the ice-a-man brought a block of ice each >>> week. In winter we used a galvanized steel box built into the kitchen >>> wall, a handy winter freezer. Even now I use my unheated garage for >>> refrigeration/freezing.... great for cooling down a 24 qt. pot of >>> soup, and then the next day after portioning those plastic containers >>> will freeze solid over night, then as the temps begin to warm the >>> uneaten portions go into my freezer. >>> >>> Some resourceful people around here sink wooden boxes into a creek to >>> use for food storage, as snow higher up melts the creeks stay ice cold >>> well into summer. There has always been refrigeration. >>> https://www.schodack.org/historian/p...-town-schodack > |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 14:31:33 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: >On 2018-03-14 12:52 PM, wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:33:45 -0400, Dave Smith >> > wrote: >> >>>> There most definitely was refrigeration, just not modern >>>> refrigeration... since forever people used ice houses, and the >>>> ice-a-box. >>> >>> In order to have ice houses back in the old days you had to have access >>> to ice. That was certainly not a problem where you and I live. Men >>> would go out on the frozen rivers and legs and cut out big blocks of it >>> and take then to storage facilities where they were stored. Those big >>> slabs were then cut up into smaller blocks and delivered to homes and >>> businesses. I remember seeing that when I was a kid, and even going to >>> ice stores to get ice for picnics and cottages. The ice was piled high >>> and covered with sawdust for insulation. >>> >>> Back in horse and buggy days I imagine that it was just too much work >>> and expense to ship ice in the blistering heat of summer. >> >> If you read the link I included at the bottom it explained all that... >> and it was very easy to ship block ice in warm weather, how it was >> done when there were only ice-a-boxes. > > >It explained how they shipped the ice from Schodack to New York. I was >thinking of places like Texas, a fair distance from frozen lakes, >mountains, and shipping canals. Use your noodle, there are places that produce ice a lot closer to Texass than NY. The Sierra Navadas are below freezing all year and have plenty of lakes (tarns) for harvesting ice. Then again prior to electric refrigeration there were relatively few people living in the South West that needed refrigeration, their life style was much different at that time... plus they all used the refrigeration at Taco Bell. LOL Besides back then people didn't horde perishables, I have never horded perishables... I think it's dumber than a pile of dog doodoo to stock up a big freezer when merchants have refrigeration and perishables are on sale every day. Unless one lives more thn 50 miles from a stupidmarket there is no reason to fill a freezer like an Eskimo stores walrus steaks. I never ever freeze tender beef steak regardless the sale, freezing tender beef turns it into braising beef for stew. I can't remember a day I couldn't buy some cuts of tender beef steak at sale price. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 5:12:23 AM UTC-10, Sheldon wrote:
> > There most definitely was refrigeration, just not modern > refrigeration... since forever people used ice houses, and the > ice-a-box. There were once countless ice houses where I live, even > now there's a good 2' of snow on the ground and where I pushed it with > plowing I made 10' high mountains that will last well into May. I > grew up with an ice-a-box, the ice-a-man brought a block of ice each > week. In winter we used a galvanized steel box built into the kitchen > wall, a handy winter freezer. Even now I use my unheated garage for > refrigeration/freezing.... great for cooling down a 24 qt. pot of > soup, and then the next day after portioning those plastic containers > will freeze solid over night, then as the temps begin to warm the > uneaten portions go into my freezer. > > Some resourceful people around here sink wooden boxes into a creek to > use for food storage, as snow higher up melts the creeks stay ice cold > well into summer. There has always been refrigeration. > https://www.schodack.org/historian/p...-town-schodack Now I've heard everything. The Jews and the Irish were probably just dicking around. |
Making Corned beef and Pastrami
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