On 1/17/2018 11:01 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Cheri"* wrote in message news >
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 1/17/2018 6:46 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There's a FOB latino woman and her husband living in those condos and
>>>> yesterday, they called me "sir." That makes me cringe. That's what
>>>> you'd
>>>> call a tourist if you were working at one of the hotels.
>>>
>>> In my part of the world "sir" is a title of respect. Usually said
>>> by a polite younger person to an older person. When my daughter
>>> was a teenager, some of her friends would call me sir at first. I
>>> hated it as it made me feel old. I always told them to just call
>>> me Gary.
>>>
>> Interesting.* I always referred to my friends parents as Mr. or Mrs.
>> whatever.* For example, when I'd call on the phone I'd say "Hi, Mrs.
>> Drum,
>> is Bridget there?"
>>
>> Jill
>
>
> Yes, we wouldn't have dared to call them by their first names, it was
> always
> Mr. or Mrs.
>
> Cheri
>
> ==
>
> Gosh yes!* Same here!
>
And it never changes through life no matter how much older one gets.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:17:07 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 6:47:15 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:33:07 PM UTC-10, Casa de Haoles wrote:
>> >
>> > If you can instruct us as to what cumulative value talking about race
>> > adds to a food and cooking group I will yield to your acumen in the matter.
>>
>> None whatsoever. From now on I will refer to all foods as "food." Country and culture have no place when talking about food.
>>
>> And FOB does not mean "freight on board." The actual term is well known to most immigrants. We use it frequently - sometimes when talking about our relatives. Please don't try to school me on the immigrant experience. It insults my intelligence - and yours.
>
>So, when something is shipped FOB Wichita, it means that the stuff
>is "fresh off the boat"?
>
>Context is everything.

Yes, FOB in the context of immigration can only mean Fresh Off the
Boat. If one doesn't know that meaning of the acronym, one may
misunderstand. But ignorance can always lead to misunderstandings.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:57:16 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 5:21:13 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>> FOB Freight on Board is a term often used in the North American
>> trucking business.
>
>Mostly, Fresh Off the Boat is a term used by Asian Americans and a hit TV series.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KhRKkLS_4I

I'm neither an Asian American nor a hit series. Actually, my
ingredient posts are a hit series.

On 1/17/2018 1:29 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:17:07 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 6:47:15 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:33:07 PM UTC-10, Casa de Haoles wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you can instruct us as to what cumulative value talking about race
>>>> adds to a food and cooking group I will yield to your acumen in the matter.
>>>
>>> None whatsoever. From now on I will refer to all foods as "food." Country and culture have no place when talking about food.
>>>
>>> And FOB does not mean "freight on board." The actual term is well known to most immigrants. We use it frequently - sometimes when talking about our relatives. Please don't try to school me on the immigrant experience. It insults my intelligence - and yours.
>>
>> So, when something is shipped FOB Wichita, it means that the stuff
>> is "fresh off the boat"?
>>
>> Context is everything.
>
> Yes, FOB in the context of immigration can only mean Fresh Off the
> Boat.

Nope, it can also mean freight on board.

Boats take freight you know.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 15:56:09 -0700, casa de los sueños >
wrote:

>On 1/17/2018 1:29 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:17:07 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 6:47:15 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:33:07 PM UTC-10, Casa de Haoles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can instruct us as to what cumulative value talking about race
>>>>> adds to a food and cooking group I will yield to your acumen in the matter.
>>>>
>>>> None whatsoever. From now on I will refer to all foods as "food." Country and culture have no place when talking about food.
>>>>
>>>> And FOB does not mean "freight on board." The actual term is well known to most immigrants. We use it frequently - sometimes when talking about our relatives. Please don't try to school me on the immigrant experience. It insults my intelligence - and yours.
>>>
>>> So, when something is shipped FOB Wichita, it means that the stuff
>>> is "fresh off the boat"?
>>>
>>> Context is everything.
>>
>> Yes, FOB in the context of immigration can only mean Fresh Off the
>> Boat.
>
>Nope, it can also mean freight on board.
>
>Boats take freight you know.

Yes, it can mean that too, but in the context of immigration Fresh Off
the Boat is much more likely. Why are we prolonging this drama? You
were wrong about something. That happens to everybody, even to Casa
Boner Trolls. Move on.

On 1/17/2018 3:59 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 15:56:09 -0700, casa de los sueños >
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/17/2018 1:29 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:17:07 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 6:47:15 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:33:07 PM UTC-10, Casa de Haoles wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can instruct us as to what cumulative value talking about race
>>>>>> adds to a food and cooking group I will yield to your acumen in the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> None whatsoever. From now on I will refer to all foods as "food." Country and culture have no place when talking about food.
>>>>>
>>>>> And FOB does not mean "freight on board." The actual term is well known to most immigrants. We use it frequently - sometimes when talking about our relatives. Please don't try to school me on the immigrant experience. It insults my intelligence - and yours.
>>>>
>>>> So, when something is shipped FOB Wichita, it means that the stuff
>>>> is "fresh off the boat"?
>>>>
>>>> Context is everything.
>>>
>>> Yes, FOB in the context of immigration can only mean Fresh Off the
>>> Boat.
>>
>> Nope, it can also mean freight on board.
>>
>> Boats take freight you know.
>
> Yes, it can mean that too, but in the context of immigration Fresh Off
> the Boat is much more likely.

Not when lives far inland and away from sea ports.

> Why are we prolonging this drama?

Ask yourself.

> You were wrong about something.

That claim has been made yes.

> That happens to everybody, even to Casa
> Boner Trolls. Move on.

But I was not wrong about he connotation of FOB and Latinos.

There's rather a bit of commoditization of migrant humans in America
these days.

Which is what happens when you leave the back door open and do nothing
to shut it.

It hasn't been all that long ago even in this state where the term
"wets" was used, later demystified to "mojados", but each one a
classless label for a human.

dsi1 wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:55:16 PM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about
> > > > your obviously racist character you decided they are bullies
> > > > for seeing you for what you are.
> > >
> > > The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial
> > > labels only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me
> > > names because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere.
> > > I'll take it all in stride.
> > >
> > > Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this
> > > group. Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy.
> > > I my country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can
> > > see, that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
> >
> > In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but
> > it didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe
> > someone new to the area who may not know all the ways things are
> > done there.
> >
> > I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only
> > personal experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed
> > thick headed, or a factual simple way to say you may not know what
> > a money tree is at a wedding.
> >
> > I encountered it in some Hari Kojima shows and pretty sure one of
> > the recipe books from him. I also had a book that was a Haole
> > guide to Hawaiian fish names. Like if you want Mullet, you need to
> > know to look for Ama'Ama and that Hapu'upu'u is sea bass. Red
> > snapper is Onaga.
> >
> > BTW, I do recall having a friend take me 'Little Haole-friend, let
> > me show you a money tree'. She showed it to me and I thought it so
> > much a more discrete way to help a new family get a start in life.
> > If you had only a dollar, you could add that, if you had a 20$ it
> > was the same.
> >
> > If there was offense intended, I missed it. It was only an
> > aknowledgement that I probably didnt know what it was (and hadn't).
> >
> > Sometimes, offense has to be intended for it to be real. While you
> > may have been a bit disparaging of mainlanders lately, others have
> > also a tendancy to take fast offense here where none was meant. One
> > can easily egg the other on to escallation.
>
> Let's face it, the mainland will never be able understand how people
> get along on this tiny rock. They are too brittle and uptight when it
> comes to you-know-what.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwxcviCe5CM

LOL! Loved the video!

"cshenk" wrote in message
...

dsi1 wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:55:16 PM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about
> > > > your obviously racist character you decided they are bullies
> > > > for seeing you for what you are.
> > >
> > > The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial
> > > labels only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me
> > > names because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere.
> > > I'll take it all in stride.
> > >
> > > Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this
> > > group. Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy.
> > > I my country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can
> > > see, that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
> >
> > In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but
> > it didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe
> > someone new to the area who may not know all the ways things are
> > done there.
> >
> > I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only
> > personal experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed
> > thick headed, or a factual simple way to say you may not know what
> > a money tree is at a wedding.
> >
> > I encountered it in some Hari Kojima shows and pretty sure one of
> > the recipe books from him. I also had a book that was a Haole
> > guide to Hawaiian fish names. Like if you want Mullet, you need to
> > know to look for Ama'Ama and that Hapu'upu'u is sea bass. Red
> > snapper is Onaga.
> >
> > BTW, I do recall having a friend take me 'Little Haole-friend, let
> > me show you a money tree'. She showed it to me and I thought it so
> > much a more discrete way to help a new family get a start in life.
> > If you had only a dollar, you could add that, if you had a 20$ it
> > was the same.
> >
> > If there was offense intended, I missed it. It was only an
> > aknowledgement that I probably didnt know what it was (and hadn't).
> >
> > Sometimes, offense has to be intended for it to be real. While you
> > may have been a bit disparaging of mainlanders lately, others have
> > also a tendancy to take fast offense here where none was meant. One
> > can easily egg the other on to escallation.
>
> Let's face it, the mainland will never be able understand how people
> get along on this tiny rock. They are too brittle and uptight when it
> comes to you-know-what.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwxcviCe5CM

LOL! Loved the video!

==

Funny)

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:55:08 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>>dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> >
>>> > That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about your
>>> > obviously racist character you decided they are bullies for seeing
>>> > you for what you are.
>>>
>>> The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial labels
>>> only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me names
>>> because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere. I'll take it
>>> all in stride.
>>>
>>> Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this group.
>>> Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy. I my
>>> country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can see,
>>> that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
>>
>>In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but it
>>didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe someone
>>new to the area who may not know all the ways things are done there.
>>
>>I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only personal
>>experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed thick headed,
>>or a factual simple way to say you may not know what a money tree is at
>>a wedding.
>
> What's a money tree at a wedding?

It's a fake tree, often made of metal. The branches will have clips or loops
on them. Money is slipped through the loops or clipped into the branches.
When I got married, I got a hanging plant instead of a tree. It was a fake
wandering Jew plant. I can't remember what was used to clip the money onto
it. Maybe paper clips.

These days a lot of people are getting married when they are older so not
much need for the traditional gifts of household items. Money is more
commonly given.

I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50. Why? The
bride and groom determined how much money they had spent on the food and
wanted to make sure they got at least that much back. It was a very
ostentatious affair with far more food than was necessary for me.

Started with various help yourself appetizers. Then there were passed
appetizers. Then a salad bar. I needed no more food at that point. But there
was more. Two soups to choose from, three plated meals to choose from, rolls
and butter, then assorted desserts. Various snack type items came several
hours after that. It was one of those receptions that dragged on and on.

I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
my speed.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 03:31:06 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:55:08 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>>dsi1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about your
>>>> > obviously racist character you decided they are bullies for seeing
>>>> > you for what you are.
>>>>
>>>> The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial labels
>>>> only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me names
>>>> because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere. I'll take it
>>>> all in stride.
>>>>
>>>> Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this group.
>>>> Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy. I my
>>>> country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can see,
>>>> that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
>>>
>>>In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but it
>>>didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe someone
>>>new to the area who may not know all the ways things are done there.
>>>
>>>I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only personal
>>>experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed thick headed,
>>>or a factual simple way to say you may not know what a money tree is at
>>>a wedding.
>>
>> What's a money tree at a wedding?
>
>It's a fake tree, often made of metal. The branches will have clips or loops
>on them. Money is slipped through the loops or clipped into the branches.
>When I got married, I got a hanging plant instead of a tree. It was a fake
>wandering Jew plant. I can't remember what was used to clip the money onto
>it. Maybe paper clips.
>
>These days a lot of people are getting married when they are older so not
>much need for the traditional gifts of household items. Money is more
>commonly given.
>
>I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50. Why? The
>bride and groom determined how much money they had spent on the food and
>wanted to make sure they got at least that much back. It was a very
>ostentatious affair with far more food than was necessary for me.
>
>Started with various help yourself appetizers. Then there were passed
>appetizers. Then a salad bar. I needed no more food at that point. But there
>was more. Two soups to choose from, three plated meals to choose from, rolls
>and butter, then assorted desserts. Various snack type items came several
>hours after that. It was one of those receptions that dragged on and on.
>
>I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
>they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
>my speed.

I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
>
> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
> they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
> my speed.

I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
"Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.

And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(

On 2018-01-18 9:06 AM, Gary wrote:

> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>
> And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
> the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
> probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
> seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(



There seems to be a common view these days that your gift should cost as
much as your dinner at the reception. Given that a lot of places are
charging $150 or more per plate, $300 for a couple's wedding gift can be
a little excessive for those who are not close family or friends. It
seems that brides these days expect to be treating like princesses and
expect their guests to foot the outrageous costs.

Friends of ours were married in the late 1980s when there was a terrible
famine in Ethiopia. It was not the first marriage for either of them.
They lived in a nice and well equipped house. They did not need
anything. The had a reception party in their house and requested that
instead of gifts, people consider a donation to famine relief.

On 1/18/2018 9:58 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

> There seems to be a common view these days that your gift should cost as
> much as your dinner at the reception.Â* Given that a lot of places are
> charging $150 or more per plate, $300 for a couple's wedding gift can be
> a little excessive for those who are not close family or friends. It
> seems that brides these days expect to be treating like princesses and
> expect their guests to foot the outrageous costs.

Some brides might want the princess treatment but the money grab
is on both of them. I've read of some outrageous couples extorting
their guests.

> Friends of ours were married in the late 1980s when there was a terrible
> famine in Ethiopia. It was not the first marriage for either of them.
> They lived in a nice and well equipped house.Â* They did not need
> anything. The had a reception party in their house and requested that
> instead of gifts, people consider a donation to famine relief.

That's a little harder to pull off for young couples who don't have
anything, but that doesn't excuse them spending buckets of money on
a wedding and expecting everyone to pay for it.

Of course, I'm not big on weddings so I might be prejudiced.

nancy

Bruce wrote:
>
>I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
>useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
>they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
>Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.

Catered affairs are expensive, even printed invitations are pricey...
there's the band or DJ that has to be paid as well the photograper and
florist. If one can't or won't give an appropriate gift then they
shouldn't attend.
Even if the celebration is a keg in the back yard with burgers and
dawgs the gift needs to minimally cover the expense, otherwise stay
home.... the new couple will be meeting plenty of moochers & scammers
in the future, they don't need the likes of you to attend the first
step of their journey. With friends like you they need no enemies.

In article >, says...
>
> Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
> >
> > I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
> > they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
> > my speed.
>
> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.

At Christmas we received what we first thought was a spoof wedding
invitation from a 50-ish couple who have been together for over 20
years. The home-made invite fell out of their Christmas card.

It kicks off with "shit's about to get real, A and D are getting
hitched" and goes on "Don't expect the usual wedding malarkey, if you
wanna turn up for the I do's, booze, and funky dance moves eat before
you leave home, wear what the hell you like we don't care, bring a chair
and a sandwich. If you wanna skip the love fest just come later for
music'n'drinking. Bacon sandwiches before kick-out time at midnight".

We're so laidback and funky we can't be bothered to turn up at all.
Shit happens.

Janet UK

On 1/18/2018 11:16 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
>>>
>>> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
>>> they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
>>> my speed.
>>
>> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>
> At Christmas we received what we first thought was a spoof wedding
> invitation from a 50-ish couple who have been together for over 20
> years. The home-made invite fell out of their Christmas card.
>
> It kicks off with "shit's about to get real, A and D are getting
> hitched" and goes on "Don't expect the usual wedding malarkey, if you
> wanna turn up for the I do's, booze, and funky dance moves eat before
> you leave home, wear what the hell you like we don't care, bring a chair
> and a sandwich. If you wanna skip the love fest just come later for
> music'n'drinking. Bacon sandwiches before kick-out time at midnight".
>
> We're so laidback and funky we can't be bothered to turn up at all.
> Shit happens.
>
> Janet UK
>
>
My mental health professional has directed me to apologize to this
group at large and to Marty and Steven in specific for acting out
here. A change in my medications is being made to address a disorder I
have been experiencing this summer. I will be monitored, but I am no
longer allowed to engage in certain activities I previously have
enjoyed as they exacerbate my condition. I apologize for being
disruptive, in a better state of mind this was generally not an issue
for me.

On 1/18/2018 4:47 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 03:31:06 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:55:08 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about your
>>>>>> obviously racist character you decided they are bullies for seeing
>>>>>> you for what you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial labels
>>>>> only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me names
>>>>> because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere. I'll take it
>>>>> all in stride.
>>>>>
>>>>> Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this group.
>>>>> Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy. I my
>>>>> country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can see,
>>>>> that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
>>>>
>>>> In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but it
>>>> didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe someone
>>>> new to the area who may not know all the ways things are done there.
>>>>
>>>> I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only personal
>>>> experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed thick headed,
>>>> or a factual simple way to say you may not know what a money tree is at
>>>> a wedding.
>>>
>>> What's a money tree at a wedding?
>>
>> It's a fake tree, often made of metal. The branches will have clips or loops
>> on them. Money is slipped through the loops or clipped into the branches.
>> When I got married, I got a hanging plant instead of a tree. It was a fake
>> wandering Jew plant. I can't remember what was used to clip the money onto
>> it. Maybe paper clips.
>>
>> These days a lot of people are getting married when they are older so not
>> much need for the traditional gifts of household items. Money is more
>> commonly given.
>>
>> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50. Why? The
>> bride and groom determined how much money they had spent on the food and
>> wanted to make sure they got at least that much back. It was a very
>> ostentatious affair with far more food than was necessary for me.
>>
>> Started with various help yourself appetizers. Then there were passed
>> appetizers. Then a salad bar. I needed no more food at that point. But there
>> was more. Two soups to choose from, three plated meals to choose from, rolls
>> and butter, then assorted desserts. Various snack type items came several
>> hours after that. It was one of those receptions that dragged on and on.
>>
>> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
>> they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
>> my speed.
>
> I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
> useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
> they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
> Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.
>

Spoken like a self-absorbed prick who's forgotten how tight money is
when young folks get married.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:06:41 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
>>
>> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
>> they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
>> my speed.
>
>I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>"Miss Manners" advice.
>I would not attend a wedding like that.

That's what they are hoping.

>And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
>the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee.

It's not presented as a fee, only a minimal suggestion because a lot
of people haven't a clue of what's an appropriate gift, like you with
your Burger King coupon budget.

>They probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
>seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(

Don't judge others by yourself. And so what if a few years later they
divorce, as Judge Judy says "You ate the sandwich you need to pay". If
you can't/won't give an appropriate gift do NOT attend... there's a
box for you to tick off on the RSVP. I'm positive you don't get
invitations.

On 1/18/2018 6:47 AM, Bruce wrote:

> I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
> useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
> they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
> Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.
>

It is rude to ask for it, but the tradition of helping a new couple get
started in life goes back centuries. Extravagant weddings are a waste
of money too. Use that money to buy a house or something more practical.

We've been married over 51 years and still have and use a couple of
wedding gifts. The money we got helped with furniture, some we still
have and use. Quality furniture does not go out of style.

On 1/18/2018 7:58 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> Friends of ours were married in the late 1980s when there was a terrible
> famine in Ethiopia. It was not the first marriage for either of them.
> They lived in a nice and well equipped house.Â* They did not need
> anything. The had a reception party in their house and requested that
> instead of gifts, people consider a donation to famine relief.
>

ANECDOTAL =/ UNIVERSAL, asshole!

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:58:29 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-01-18 9:06 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>>
>> And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
>> the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
>> probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
>> seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(
>
>
>
>There seems to be a common view these days that your gift should cost as
>much as your dinner at the reception. Given that a lot of places are
>charging $150 or more per plate, $300 for a couple's wedding gift can be
>a little excessive.

An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.

Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend. Perhaps the
couple is not important enough for you to attend... simply indicate so
by ticking off the NO box on the RSVP so the couple isn't charged for
a no show.... then it's up to you to decide whether you ever want to
face them in the future.

An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
gift. One needs to ask themself how many catered
wedding receptions are they invited to in their lifetime... for most
people that's less than the fingers of one hand, so there is nothing
outrageous about paying one's way a couple three times.
..
Also before ticking off the attendance box on the invitation look in a
mirror and check whether across your forehead in your reflection is
tattooed SCHNORER, because without giving an appropriate amount you
will forever wear that tattoo... same as BN will always be Big Niece.

The few times I've been invited to a catered wedding reception I felt
honored so always gave an appropriate gift... not to mention the fact
I'd have to face ALL those people over a lifetime. In fact twice I
was unable to attend but still gave the same gift had I attended.

On 2018-01-18 10:54 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/18/2018 9:58 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

> That's a little harder to pull off for young couples who don't have
> anything, but that doesn't excuse them spending buckets of money on
> a wedding and expecting everyone to pay for it.
>
> Of course, I'm not big on weddings so I might be prejudiced.

There is a disturbing trend of people having destination weddings. It is
a good deal for the couple because many of the cruises or resorts are
all inclusive and will do the ceremony for little or nothing extra. It
is major expense for guests. It is not just the money for the
trip/cruise/resort, but there is the time. You can't expect all your
wedding guests to spend $1-2000 or more and a week of vacation time to
attend your wedding. I would hope that they would at least not expect
presents as well.

That being said, I have travelled long distances to attend family
weddings and made a vacation of it. About 15 years ago we flew to
Colorado for my wife's cousin's son's wedding. The cousin put us up in
a hotel for three nights and then we spent a couple days in the
mountains and visited some friends in Golden. We had a great time.
Two years ago we flew to California for my niece's wedding. In that
case, I had been in favour of my brother's hopes that they would opt for
a destination wedding, an all inclusive in Jamaica. It would have been
a lot cheaper for us, and I have never been to Jamaica.

On 2018-01-18 11:15 AM, wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>>
>> I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
>> useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
>> they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
>> Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.
>
> Catered affairs are expensive, even printed invitations are pricey...
> there's the band or DJ that has to be paid as well the photograper and
> florist. If one can't or won't give an appropriate gift then they
> shouldn't attend.
> Even if the celebration is a keg in the back yard with burgers and
> dawgs the gift needs to minimally cover the expense, otherwise stay
> home.... the new couple will be meeting plenty of moochers & scammers
> in the future, they don't need the likes of you to attend the first
> step of their journey. With friends like you they need no enemies.
>


Guests should not be expected to pay for gala affairs that the couple
and they families cannot afford to throw. You invite people to
participate in a special event because you care for them, not to get
them to help to pay for it.

On 2018-01-18 11:37 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/18/2018 6:47 AM, Bruce wrote:
>
>> I always hate it when people want money. I understand they don't want
>> useless gifts, but we're supposed to be there to celebrate that
>> they're getting married, right? What has money got to do with it?
>> Unless it's 2 bookkeepers who are getting married.
>>
>
> It is rude to ask for it, but the tradition of helping a new couple get
> started in life goes back centuries.Â* Extravagant weddings are a waste
> of money too.Â* Use that money to buy a house or something more practical.
>
> We've been married over 51 years and still have and use a couple of
> wedding gifts.Â* The money we got helped with furniture, some we still
> have and use.Â* Quality furniture does not go out of style.

We were lucky when we got married because we received a lot of beautiful
gifts, most of which we still have today. We had registered with a gift
shop for the dish and flatware patterns and ended up with complete sets.
We did get some cash, all of which was spend on lamps, furniture and a
rug. We still have all that furniture, but the rug is gone.

On 1/18/2018 12:27 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-01-18 10:54 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> On 1/18/2018 9:58 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> That's a little harder to pull off for young couples who don't have
>> anything, but that doesn't excuse them spending buckets of money on
>> a wedding and expecting everyone to pay for it.
>>
>> Of course, I'm not big on weddings so I might be prejudiced.
>
> There is a disturbing trend of people having destination weddings. It is
> a good deal for the couple because many of the cruises or resorts are
> all inclusive and will do the ceremony for little or nothing extra.Â* It
> is major expense for guests.

It's crazy. And the bridal party can't exactly say no without
backing out of the whole thing, very awkward.

> It is not just the money for the
> trip/cruise/resort,Â* but there is the time. You can't expect all your
> wedding guests to spend $1-2000 or more and a week of vacation time to
> attend your wedding. I would hope that they would at least not expect
> presents as well.

You can bet your last $ they do.

> That being said, I have travelled long distances to attend family
> weddingsÂ* and made a vacation of it. About 15 years ago we flew to
> Colorado for my wife's cousin's son's wedding.Â*Â* The cousin put us up in
> a hotel for three nights

That's not necessary but very nice.

>and then we spent a couple days in the
> mountains and visited some friends in Golden.Â* We had a great time. Two
> years ago we flew to California for my niece's wedding.Â* In that case, I
> had been in favour of my brother's hopes that they would opt for a
> destination wedding, an all inclusive in Jamaica.Â* It would have been a
> lot cheaper for us, and I have never been to Jamaica.

The only 'destination wedding' I've been invited to is Ron's nephew,
in Hawaii. I put quotes because his wife is from there and it's
where her family lives. Not just a random wedding in some remote
pretty place.

nancy

On 2018-01-18 12:20 PM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:58:29 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2018-01-18 9:06 AM, Gary wrote:
>>
>>> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>>> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>>> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>>> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>>>
>>> And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
>>> the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
>>> probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
>>> seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(
>>
>>
>>
>> There seems to be a common view these days that your gift should cost as
>> much as your dinner at the reception. Given that a lot of places are
>> charging $150 or more per plate, $300 for a couple's wedding gift can be
>> a little excessive.
>
> An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
> and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
> and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
> also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
> whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.
>
> Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend.

You're right, but there is an expectation to send a gift anyway.


> An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
> meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
> C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
> gift.


About 10 years ago my wife and I were invited to the wedding of a good
friend of our son. It was heard at a nearby winery. I later learned that
the cheapest wedding package there was $150 a person. This was several
steps above that, maybe $175. That's $350 to cover the meal and party.
We could go to a really nice restaurant, have a much better meal, better
wine, order whatever we wanted, not have to sit through a ceremony and
speeches.

You are guests at a wedding. You are there because they want you to be
part of their day. If they can afford a lavish wedding they good for
them. If they cannot afford to entertain royally they should not expect
their guests to pay for it.

On 2018-01-18 12:42 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 1/18/2018 12:27 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

> The only 'destination wedding' I've been invited to is Ron's nephew,
> in Hawaii.Â* I put quotes because his wife is from there and it's
> where her family lives.Â* Not just a random wedding in some remote
> pretty place.

It is not exactly a destination wedding if the family lives there. When
I went to Colorado the family lived there. When I went to California for
my niece's wedding, she and the groom and his family all lived there. I
declined an invitation to a nephew's wedding in Portugal. He and his
wife lived in Ottawa at the time, but his family are all here in
Niagara. Her father was Portuguese, but lives in Canada. No way I was
taking a two week group vacation and paying thousands for airfare. As it
turned out, it wasn't even a real wedding. They later got married for
real in a civil ceremony down here.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:06:41 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
>>
>> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to what
>> they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a gift was more
>> my speed.
>
>I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>"Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>
>And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
>the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
>probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
>seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(

Whereas you're still married?

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:16:59 -0000, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, says...
>>
>> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>
> At Christmas we received what we first thought was a spoof wedding
>invitation from a 50-ish couple who have been together for over 20
>years. The home-made invite fell out of their Christmas card.
>
> It kicks off with "shit's about to get real, A and D are getting
>hitched" and goes on "Don't expect the usual wedding malarkey, if you
>wanna turn up for the I do's, booze, and funky dance moves eat before
>you leave home, wear what the hell you like we don't care, bring a chair
>and a sandwich. If you wanna skip the love fest just come later for
>music'n'drinking. Bacon sandwiches before kick-out time at midnight".
>
> We're so laidback and funky we can't be bothered to turn up at all.
>Shit happens.

It's a bit extreme, but it does make sure people like you don't show
up.

On 1/18/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:

>
> An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
> and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
> and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
> also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
> whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.
>
> Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend. Perhaps the
> couple is not important enough for you to attend... simply indicate so
> by ticking off the NO box on the RSVP so the couple isn't charged for
> a no show.... then it's up to you to decide whether you ever want to
> face them in the future.
>
> An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
> meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
> C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
> gift. One needs to ask themself how many catered
> wedding receptions are they invited to in their lifetime... for most
> people that's less than the fingers of one hand, so there is nothing
> outrageous about paying one's way a couple three times.

Not everyone fits your category.

Let's say the bride comes from a well-to-do family that wants a fancy
high priced wedding for their 23 year old child. Cost is $150 a head.
The child wants to invite childhood friends that just bought a house,
have student loans and a baby on the way. They get by, but have no
extra money. Do you expect them to go into debt to give a gift? Stay
home and not celebrate their friend of many years?

IMO, they should go, give what they can afford, if anything, and enjoy
the celebration as intended. Real friends would appreciate that. If
the wedding couple is insulted, I'd not want to associate with them
anyway,

On 2018-01-18 2:17 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/18/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:

> IMO, they should go, give what they can afford, if anything, and enjoy
> the celebration as intended.Â* Real friends would appreciate that.Â* If
> the wedding couple is insulted, I'd not want to associate with them anyway,

About 8 years ago one of my nieces married a guy from South Carolina and
the wedding was up here. One of the grooms friends came for the wedding.
It was common knowledge that he was pretty well broke. He had to bum a
ride with someone else and had no money for a hotel or meals. They
helped him out. I doubt they expected a present from him, but they were
sure glad that he came.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:17:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 1/18/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
>
>>
>> An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
>> and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
>> and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
>> also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
>> whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.
>>
>> Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend. Perhaps the
>> couple is not important enough for you to attend... simply indicate so
>> by ticking off the NO box on the RSVP so the couple isn't charged for
>> a no show.... then it's up to you to decide whether you ever want to
>> face them in the future.
>>
>> An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
>> meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
>> C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
>> gift. One needs to ask themself how many catered
>> wedding receptions are they invited to in their lifetime... for most
>> people that's less than the fingers of one hand, so there is nothing
>> outrageous about paying one's way a couple three times.
>
>Not everyone fits your category.
>
>Let's say the bride comes from a well-to-do family that wants a fancy
>high priced wedding for their 23 year old child. Cost is $150 a head.
>The child wants to invite childhood friends that just bought a house,
>have student loans and a baby on the way. They get by, but have no
>extra money. Do you expect them to go into debt to give a gift? Stay
>home and not celebrate their friend of many years?
>
>IMO, they should go, give what they can afford, if anything, and enjoy
>the celebration as intended. Real friends would appreciate that. If
>the wedding couple is insulted, I'd not want to associate with them
>anyway,

+5 or 6

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:52:56 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-01-18 12:20 PM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:58:29 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-01-18 9:06 AM, Gary wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
>>>> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
>>>> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
>>>> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>>>>
>>>> And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
>>>> the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
>>>> probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
>>>> seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There seems to be a common view these days that your gift should cost as
>>> much as your dinner at the reception. Given that a lot of places are
>>> charging $150 or more per plate, $300 for a couple's wedding gift can be
>>> a little excessive.
>>
>> An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
>> and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
>> and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
>> also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
>> whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.
>>
>> Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend.
>
>You're right, but there is an expectation to send a gift anyway.
>
>
>> An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
>> meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
>> C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
>> gift.
>
>
>About 10 years ago my wife and I were invited to the wedding of a good
>friend of our son. It was heard at a nearby winery. I later learned that
>the cheapest wedding package there was $150 a person. This was several
>steps above that, maybe $175. That's $350 to cover the meal and party.
>We could go to a really nice restaurant, have a much better meal, better
>wine, order whatever we wanted, not have to sit through a ceremony and
>speeches.
>
>You are guests at a wedding. You are there because they want you to be
>part of their day. If they can afford a lavish wedding they good for
>them. If they cannot afford to entertain royally they should not expect
>their guests to pay for it.

A fancy wedding for the friend of a friend is an invitation one
doesn't take seriously, you don't know these people, you are not
expected to attend... simply send the RSVP back with a hand written
"Good luck!"

On 1/18/2018 1:14 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-01-18 2:17 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/18/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
>
>> IMO, they should go, give what they can afford, if anything, and enjoy
>> the celebration as intended.Â* Real friends would appreciate that.Â* If
>> the wedding couple is insulted, I'd not want to associate with them
>> anyway,
>
> About 8 years ago one of my nieces married a guy from South Carolina and
> the wedding was up here. One of the grooms friends came for the wedding.
> It was common knowledge that he was pretty well broke. He had to bum a
> ride with someone else and had no money for a hotel or meals. They
> helped him out. I doubt they expected a present from him, but they were
> sure glad that he came.
>
>

Anecdotal David strikes again.

Cuz reality is only composed of HIS personal reveries...

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>penmart01 wrote:
>>
>> An invitation always gives the name of where the catered event occurs
>> and people with a minimum IQ can figure out what they charge per guest
>> and what an appropriate gift is... Most invites to catered affairs
>> also include the menu and to minimally choose your main entree, and
>> whether there will be an open bar or pay your own way.
>>
>> Receiving an invitation is NOT a requirement to attend. Perhaps the
>> couple is not important enough for you to attend... simply indicate so
>> by ticking off the NO box on the RSVP so the couple isn't charged for
>> a no show.... then it's up to you to decide whether you ever want to
>> face them in the future.
>>
>> An appropriate gift is minimally what it would cost you for the same
>> meal at a high end restaurant... but normal brained folks would add a
>> C note to cover a gift because just paying for one's meal is not a
>> gift. One needs to ask themself how many catered
>> wedding receptions are they invited to in their lifetime... for most
>> people that's less than the fingers of one hand, so there is nothing
>> outrageous about paying one's way a couple three times.
>
>Not everyone fits your category.
>
>Let's say the bride comes from a well-to-do family that wants a fancy
>high priced wedding for their 23 year old child.

"Let's say" says you're fanticising.

If they are so well off the proper thing is when the invitations are
printed to specify "No gifts, please". But then "well off" people
associate with people in their own socieo economic group, and as in
all families some few are very poor and/or socially unfit to attend an
expensive affair, and so are not invited.

>Cost is $150 a head.

A well to do family should be able to pay ten times that amount and
probably more... $150 per is not much of an affair these days.... low
end well to do people typically spend $100,000 on a wedding. I've
been to Bar Mitzvahs at Leonards of Great Neck that had to cost
$300,000.

>The child wants to invite childhood friends that just bought a house,
>have student loans and a baby on the way. They get by, but have no
>extra money. Do you expect them to go into debt to give a gift? Stay
>home and not celebrate their friend of many years?

They should know their childhood friends well enough to have a heart
to heart conversation about that their parents are going all out and
you know how financially well off they are so please don't concern
yourself with a gift, just enjoy the affair, and when we return from
the honeymoon we can arrange for a keg party and you and a few others
can spring for the bruski and burgers... we'll pick a day when our
parent's pool and cabana are available, or maybe their yacht.

>IMO, they should go, give what they can afford, if anything, and enjoy
>the celebration as intended. Real friends would appreciate that. If
>the wedding couple is insulted, I'd not want to associate with them
>anyway,

There are real ways for real friends to do a work around, see above.
Sometimes childhood friends can't afford the attire and hair dresser
for a formal affair so the classy thing is for a friend to arrange for
their rentals, salon, and a limo. Perhaps your idea of well to do is
a steadily employed school teacher... my idea of well to do is a
sucessful diamond merchant, or furrier... yes wealthy women still wear
Persian lamb coats... naturally I'd not attend their affair.

wrote:

my idea of well to do is a
> sucessful diamond merchant, or furrier... yes wealthy women still wear
> Persian lamb coats... naturally I'd not attend their affair.
>

And, naturally, they were very grateful that you did not choose to
attend. Sometimes, invitations are perfunctory, and the person cringes
at the thought that the invitee would actually crash the party, lest
there be a scene with yoose oogling their breasts and making yoose usual
sexual harassment.

Ophelia wrote:

>
>
> "cshenk" wrote in message
> ...
>
> dsi1 wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:55:16 PM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> > >
> >> > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about
> >> > > your obviously racist character you decided they are bullies
> >> > > for seeing you for what you are.
> >> >
> >> > The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial
> >> > labels only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me
> >> > names because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere.
> >> > I'll take it all in stride.
> >> >
> >> > Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this
> >> > group. Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other guy.
> >> > I my country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far as I can
> >> > see, that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
> > >
> >> In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole but
> >> it didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to describe
> >> someone new to the area who may not know all the ways things are
> >> done there.
> > >
> >> I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only
> >> personal experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you seemed
> >> thick headed, or a factual simple way to say you may not know what
> >> a money tree is at a wedding.
> > >
> >> I encountered it in some Hari Kojima shows and pretty sure one of
> >> the recipe books from him. I also had a book that was a Haole
> >> guide to Hawaiian fish names. Like if you want Mullet, you need to
> >> know to look for Ama'Ama and that Hapu'upu'u is sea bass. Red
> >> snapper is Onaga.
> > >
> >> BTW, I do recall having a friend take me 'Little Haole-friend, let
> >> me show you a money tree'. She showed it to me and I thought it so
> >> much a more discrete way to help a new family get a start in life.
> >> If you had only a dollar, you could add that, if you had a 20$ it
> >> was the same.
> > >
> >> If there was offense intended, I missed it. It was only an
> >> aknowledgement that I probably didnt know what it was (and hadn't).
> > >
> >> Sometimes, offense has to be intended for it to be real. While you
> >> may have been a bit disparaging of mainlanders lately, others have
> >> also a tendancy to take fast offense here where none was meant. One
> >> can easily egg the other on to escallation.
> >
> > Let's face it, the mainland will never be able understand how people
> > get along on this tiny rock. They are too brittle and uptight when
> > it comes to you-know-what.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwxcviCe5CM
>
> LOL! Loved the video!
>
> ==
>
> Funny)

Yup! A bit more tounge in cheek than meets the eye from one who didnt
live there, but ovrall pretty good. Hari Kojima is in there among the
pictures!

Julie Bove wrote:

>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ... >On Tue, 16 Jan
> 2018 19:55:08 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> > > dsi1 wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> >>>> That's rich. Shortly after a number of people spoke up about your
> >>>> obviously racist character you decided they are bullies for
> seeing >>>> you for what you are.
> > > >
> > > > The reality is yoose guys are hyper-sensitive to this racial
> > > > labels only when it involves you. I'm used to people calling me
> > > > names because that's the experience of non-whites everywhere.
> > > > I'll take it all in stride.
> > > >
> > > > Racial slurs are one of the various breads and butters of this
> > > > group. Nobody bats an eye since it's always about the other
> > > > guy. I my country, "haole" is not considered a slur so as far
> > > > as I can see, that's your problem, not mine. Man up yoose guys!
> > >
> > > In the 3 years I lived in Hawaii, I was aware of the term Haole
> > > but it didnt seem to be used as an abusive term, more one to
> > > describe someone new to the area who may not know all the ways
> > > things are done there.
> > >
> > > I supposed it could be used in a disparaging way but my only
> > > personal experince was more a 'benevolent tolerance' if you
> > > seemed thick headed, or a factual simple way to say you may not
> > > know what a money tree is at a wedding.
> >
> > What's a money tree at a wedding?
>
> It's a fake tree, often made of metal. The branches will have clips
> or loops on them. Money is slipped through the loops or clipped into
> the branches. When I got married, I got a hanging plant instead of a
> tree. It was a fake wandering Jew plant. I can't remember what was
> used to clip the money onto it. Maybe paper clips.
>
> These days a lot of people are getting married when they are older so
> not much need for the traditional gifts of household items. Money is
> more commonly given.
>
> I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50. Why?
> The bride and groom determined how much money they had spent on the
> food and wanted to make sure they got at least that much back. It was
> a very ostentatious affair with far more food than was necessary for
> me.
>
> Started with various help yourself appetizers. Then there were passed
> appetizers. Then a salad bar. I needed no more food at that point.
> But there was more. Two soups to choose from, three plated meals to
> choose from, rolls and butter, then assorted desserts. Various snack
> type items came several hours after that. It was one of those
> receptions that dragged on and on.
>
> I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to
> what they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a
> gift was more my speed.

THat has nothing to do with how the lovely Hawaiian experience went.

Gary wrote:

> Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > I went to one wedding where each guest was expected to give $50.
> >
> > I did think it rude that the bride and groom put the word out as to
> > what they expected. This was back in the mid-1980's and $20 for a
> > gift was more my speed.
>
> I agree and also think that's very rude. Invite someone to your
> wedding and of course you hope for a nice wedding gift but to
> announce that they are expected to give so much is way beyond
> "Miss Manners" advice. I would not attend a wedding like that.
>
> And depending on who it was, I might have given them more than
> the $50 but not if I was invited with a minimum fee. They
> probably got divorced in a few years later anyway. No young ppl
> seem to take the marriage vows seriously. :-(

The bit I talked to has nothing to do with Julie's rendition at all. No
compulsory expectation (ok, maybe 1$ on the tree expected, but not
stated and it's in return for a 10$ meal plus drinks).

Wht i saw, the mother's daugher hosts the food fest, the money goes to
the kids getting married. The new son's parents pay too but not sure
how that was split.