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On 8/31/2016 12:23 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-08-31, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> Justin Wilson. He was funny!

>
> I "gar-own-tee!
>
> nb
>

"Firs', you gotta make-a-roux, you know dat".

Jill
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:36:37 -0300, wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 13:12:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> >On 8/31/2016 6:00 AM,
wrote:
> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 23:33:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 8/30/2016 5:36 PM,
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Definitely free healthcare, that's a sacred cow in Canada and
> >>>> politicians try to monkey with it at their peril, but I also feel
> >>>> guaranteed pensions are good too. Seems now all the major
> >>>> corporations are trying to do away with them, not fair, another way
> >>>> the 1% see to grab more for themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> HINT: None of that stuff is free.
> >>
> >> I realise that we are paying for it, but I prefer it this way. I
> >> distrust insurance companies completely so would not want my health
> >> care in their hands! I like the feeling that I could be ill but not
> >> bankrupt paying for it.
> >>

> >
> >We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
> >the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
> >$200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.
> >
> >We could get cheaper insurance with deductibles and copay but choose not
> >to.

>
> I am sure I have mentioned it before but my cousin and husband were
> living in San Francisco. She found a lump in her breast, went to the
> doctor and he said, we'll check it again next month and see if there
> is any growth.
>
> She flew back to the UK that night, saw her doc at home and two days
> later had a mastectomy. When back in SF she asked her doctor what
> made him say 'wait a month' when there is so much talk of early
> detection. He said that was what the insurance company want them to
> do. She was disgusted and told him she had come to see him as a
> doctor, not some insurance clerk.


She needs to take it up with her insurance company, not her Dr.

--
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Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Cajun/Creole (WAS: Meat for Pastys and the like)

On 8/31/2016 6:32 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/31/2016 12:23 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2016-08-31, jmcquown > wrote:
>>
>>> Justin Wilson. He was funny!

>>
>> I "gar-own-tee!
>>
>> nb
>>

> "Firs', you gotta make-a-roux, you know dat".
>
> Jill


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4umRMJlrs

He maybe exaggerated the accent a bit but he sure was fun. He inspired
me to make chicken & sausage gumbo... yes, with a dark roux. Damn, roux
is a French word, too.

Jill
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In article >,
says...
>
> On 8/31/2016 6:32 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 8/31/2016 12:23 PM, notbob wrote:
> >> On 2016-08-31, jmcquown > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Justin Wilson. He was funny!
> >>
> >> I "gar-own-tee!
> >>
> >> nb
> >>

> > "Firs', you gotta make-a-roux, you know dat".
> >
> > Jill

>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4umRMJlrs
>
> He maybe exaggerated the accent a bit but he sure was fun. He inspired
> me to make chicken & sausage gumbo... yes, with a dark roux. Damn, roux
> is a French word, too.


I like dat chef. I really do did.
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:

> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at
>> 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle
>> wrote:
>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>
>>>> That was my point, nothing is free,
>>>> but at least you get something
>>>> really
>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>
>>>
>>> the United States spent $597 billion
>>> (or so) for defense in 2016

>>
>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and
>> Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>
>>

> Far more on a per capita basis than
> just about every other civilised
> country.
>


Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?

graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?


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In article >, Ed
Pawlowski > wrote:


> We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
> the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
> $200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.


While I absolutely agree with your bill particulars, I call accounting
shenanigans. I've been through this a few times in twenty years. If you
don't have insurance, you're on the hook for 200K and are in the least
able to pay category. If you have insurance, the insurance company pays
35K and you pay nothing. Where did the 165K go?

leo
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In article >, tert in seattle
> wrote:

> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016


And then there's this:

<http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...g/17/facebook-
posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/>

I'm sure you didn't see that silly assed pie chart on Facebook and
believe it. Otherwise, cite your source, please.

leo
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On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle
>>> wrote:
>>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something
>>>>> really
>>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016
>>>
>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>>
>>>

>> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
>> country.
>>

>
> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
>
> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?


Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
profit margin.
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In article >, graham > wrote:

> On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:


> > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?

>
> Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
> higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
> profit margin.


There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.

leo
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"barbie gee" > wrote in message
hcrg.pbz...
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle
>>> wrote:
>>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something
>>>>> really
>>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016
>>>
>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>>
>>>

>> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
>> country.
>>

>
> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
>
> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?


I have no idea what you're talking about since I never gave stats for
anything.

Cheri

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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 6:14:45 PM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle wrote:
> >> Cheri wrote:
> >>
> >>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something really
> >>> great for your taxes.
> >>>
> >>> Cheri
> >>
> >>
> >> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016

> >
> > And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
> > health care spending was $3 trillion.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >

> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
> country.


And we get so little bang for our buck (as a society). Individual
results may vary.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 12:31:04 AM UTC-4, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> In article >, Ed
> Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>
> > We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
> > the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
> > $200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.

>
> While I absolutely agree with your bill particulars, I call accounting
> shenanigans. I've been through this a few times in twenty years. If you
> don't have insurance, you're on the hook for 200K and are in the least
> able to pay category. If you have insurance, the insurance company pays
> 35K and you pay nothing. Where did the 165K go?


The thing probably actually is worth 100K, so the uninsured guy who
paid his entire 200K subsidized the guy with insurance. Just my guess.

Or else the thing actually is worth 35K, and the uninsured guy subsidized
everybody who doesn't pay the bill.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 03:50:13 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 2:05:50 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> >
>> > In article >, graham > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>> >
>> > > > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>> > > > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>> > > > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
>> > >
>> > > Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
>> > > higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
>> > > profit margin.
>> >
>> > There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.

>>
>> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>> the US?

>
>1. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution pretty much prevents the U.S.
>government from nationalizing the insurance industry by providing true
>single-payer coverage.
>
>2. We're all about the individual, and taking care of ourselves (even when
>that doesn't work).
>
>Cindy Hamilton


To me there is no logic to someone who works all their life, has their
own home, is a good law abiding citizen then disaster hits, perhaps
they have a heart attack. They then lose everything to pay for it
all, rendering them homeless and living off society one way or
another.

It seems more logical to have that person paying taxes (the more money
you have, the more you buy, ergo the more you put into the system) and
keeping them going when they have the heart attack. They return to
their home and self sufficiency.

Not only do the big spenders pay in more but also quite naturally some
will use the system more than others. I'm a rare patient so on
balance I weigh off all the care David received in his day.

Above all, I can't imagine having to worry about the money side of
things when illness hits.


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On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 8:18:45 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 03:50:13 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 2:05:50 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >> >
> >> > In article >, graham > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> >> > > > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> >> > > > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
> >> > >
> >> > > Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
> >> > > higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
> >> > > profit margin.
> >> >
> >> > There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
> >>
> >> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
> >> the US?

> >
> >1. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution pretty much prevents the U.S.
> >government from nationalizing the insurance industry by providing true
> >single-payer coverage.
> >
> >2. We're all about the individual, and taking care of ourselves (even when
> >that doesn't work).
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton

>
> To me there is no logic to someone who works all their life, has their
> own home, is a good law abiding citizen then disaster hits, perhaps
> they have a heart attack. They then lose everything to pay for it
> all, rendering them homeless and living off society one way or
> another.
>
> It seems more logical to have that person paying taxes (the more money
> you have, the more you buy, ergo the more you put into the system) and
> keeping them going when they have the heart attack. They return to
> their home and self sufficiency.
>
> Not only do the big spenders pay in more but also quite naturally some
> will use the system more than others. I'm a rare patient so on
> balance I weigh off all the care David received in his day.
>
> Above all, I can't imagine having to worry about the money side of
> things when illness hits.


I never said it was logical or fair. However, it seems to satisfy some
in-born American need to "take care of your own" rather than share
the risk/reward across the whole population. Plus, a lot of people
think "it won't happen to me" or "I'll die straightaway, so it
won't be a problem".

"Waking up dead" would certainly be my first choice as a way to go.

Cindy Hamilton
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Lucretia, OUCH! Sorry for your foot...nothing seems more inconvenient
Than a foot injury.

N.
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

>Lucretia, OUCH! Sorry for your foot...nothing seems more inconvenient
>Than a foot injury.
>
>N.


Lol thanks, oddly enough it's through the night it is most
inconvenient, I keep waking because I've knocked it with the other
foot Stitches out tomorrow, wasn't going to wait until after the
Labour Day weekend.
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 21:30:58 -0700, Leonard Blaisdell
> wrote:

>In article >, Ed
>Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>
>> We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
>> the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
>> $200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.

>
>While I absolutely agree with your bill particulars, I call accounting
>shenanigans. I've been through this a few times in twenty years. If you
>don't have insurance, you're on the hook for 200K and are in the least
>able to pay category. If you have insurance, the insurance company pays
>35K and you pay nothing. Where did the 165K go?
>
>leo


Insurance companies need to give approval for expensive procedures and
they negotiate the bill down... that's why the ins only paid 35k. Just
like doctors are associated with particular hospitals so are insurance
companies. Nowadays fewer and fewer doctors visit their patients in
hospitals, larger hospitals maintain a staff of contract doctors and
other medical staff including nurses who do all procedures and make
the rounds.
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On 9/1/2016 8:56 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 21:30:58 -0700, Leonard Blaisdell
> > wrote:
>
>> In article >, Ed
>> Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
>>> the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
>>> $200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.

>>
>> While I absolutely agree with your bill particulars, I call accounting
>> shenanigans. I've been through this a few times in twenty years. If you
>> don't have insurance, you're on the hook for 200K and are in the least
>> able to pay category. If you have insurance, the insurance company pays
>> 35K and you pay nothing. Where did the 165K go?
>>
>> leo

>
> Insurance companies need to give approval for expensive procedures and
> they negotiate the bill down... that's why the ins only paid 35k. Just
> like doctors are associated with particular hospitals so are insurance
> companies. Nowadays fewer and fewer doctors visit their patients in
> hospitals, larger hospitals maintain a staff of contract doctors and
> other medical staff including nurses who do all procedures and make
> the rounds.
>



And more and more hospitals are "nonprofit". Everybody is making money
hand over fist, but the hospital itself is "nonprofit". What a joke.


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On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> In article >, graham > wrote:
>>
>> > On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:

>>
>> > > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>> > > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>> > > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
>> >
>> > Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
>> > higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
>> > profit margin.

>>
>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.

>
>Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>the US?


They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
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On 9/1/2016 12:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
> wrote:


>> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>> the US?

>
> They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
> illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
>

You are confusing 'healthcare' with 'healthcare system'.

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Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2016-09-01 12:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >>>
> >>> In article >, graham > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> >>>>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> >>>>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
> >>>>
> >>>> Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
> >>>> higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
> >>>> profit margin.
> >>>
> >>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
> >>
> >> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
> >> the US?

> >
> > They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
> > illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
> >

>
> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
> US for treatment.


And then you have me that stays home and treats myself. So far, so
good.
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:17:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
> US for treatment.


Agree. They travel even as close as Mexico for dental work.

--
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barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton
>> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at
>>> 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle
>>> wrote:
>>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free,
>>>>> but at least you get something
>>>>> really
>>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the United States spent $597 billion
>>>> (or so) for defense in 2016
>>>
>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and
>>> Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>>
>>>

>> Far more on a per capita basis than
>> just about every other civilised
>> country.
>>

>
> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
>
> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?


<https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/09/this-remarkable-chart-shows-how-u-s-defense-spending-dwarfs-the-rest-of-the-world/>

wikipedia says in 2010 defense accounted for 28% of estimated tax revenues
but doesn't have a citation

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On 9/1/2016 10:28 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:17:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
>> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
>> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
>> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
>> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
>> US for treatment.

>
> Agree. They travel even as close as Mexico for dental work.
>


People from the US travel to other countries to save money.

People from other countries travel to the US to get medical treatment in
a more timely manner, or when it will not be provided at all under their
health care system.
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Cheri wrote:

>
> "barbie gee" > wrote in message
> hcrg.pbz...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016
>>>>
>>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
>>> country.
>>>

>>
>> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
>>
>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?

>
> I have no idea what you're talking about since I never gave stats for
> anything.


oh, I meant Cindy, sorry.
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On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 1:50:04 PM UTC-4, barbie gee wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Cheri wrote:
>
> >
> > "barbie gee" > wrote in message
> > hcrg.pbz...
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>>> Cheri wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something
> >>>>>> really
> >>>>>> great for your taxes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016
> >>>>
> >>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
> >>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
> >>> country.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
> >>
> >> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
> >> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
> >> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?

> >
> > I have no idea what you're talking about since I never gave stats for
> > anything.

>
> oh, I meant Cindy, sorry.


Here's where I got my figures for health care spending:

<https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet.html>


Cindy Hamilton
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On 9/1/2016 11:36 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 9/1/2016 10:28 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:17:15 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
>>> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
>>> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
>>> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
>>> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
>>> US for treatment.

>>
>> Agree. They travel even as close as Mexico for dental work.
>>

>
> People from the US travel to other countries to save money.
>
> People from other countries travel to the US to get medical treatment in
> a more timely manner, or when it will not be provided at all under their
> health care system.


Usually what's considered to be experimental treatment.


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"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-09-01 12:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article >,
>> >> says...
>> >>>
>> >>> In article >, graham >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense
>> >>>>> per
>> >>>>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or
>> >>>>> are we
>> >>>>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than
>> >>>>> others?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs
>> >>>> being
>> >>>> higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is
>> >>>> no
>> >>>> profit margin.
>> >>>
>> >>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
>> >>
>> >> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system
>> >> than
>> >> the US?
>> >
>> > They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
>> > illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
>> >

>>
>> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
>> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
>> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
>> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
>> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
>> US for treatment.

>
> And then you have me that stays home and treats myself. So far, so
> good.


I did for 13 of my later years, as I said...I was amazed at the bodies
ability to heal itself for so many things.

Cheri

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"barbie gee" > wrote in message
hcrg.pbz...
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Cheri wrote:
>
>>
>> "barbie gee" > wrote in message
>> hcrg.pbz...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/31/2016 1:05 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:50:04 PM UTC-4, tert in seattle
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Cheri wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was my point, nothing is free, but at least you get something
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> great for your taxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the United States spent $597 billion (or so) for defense in 2016
>>>>>
>>>>> And about $1 trillion on Medicare and Medicaid (in 2014). Total
>>>>> health care spending was $3 trillion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Far more on a per capita basis than just about every other civilised
>>>> country.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tert and Cheri, can you cite your stats?
>>>
>>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?

>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about since I never gave stats for
>> anything.

>
> oh, I meant Cindy, sorry.


No problem at all, just didn't want you to wait for my stats.

Cheri

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On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 12:02:36 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
>wrote:
>
>>In article >,
says...
>>>
>>> In article >, graham > wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>>>
>>> > > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>>> > > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>>> > > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
>>> >
>>> > Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
>>> > higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
>>> > profit margin.
>>>
>>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.

>>
>>Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>>the US?

>
>They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
>illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.


That is absolutely false! I know people with pads in Florida for the
winter, many who have uninsurable heart problems for example, lay
plans to be swiftly driven back to Canada in an emergency. You are
spouting insurance company speak.
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>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/i...settlements/On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:17:15 -0400, Dave Smith > wrote:

>On 2016-09-01 12:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> In article >, graham > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>>>>>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>>>>>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
>>>>>
>>>>> Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
>>>>> higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
>>>>> profit margin.
>>>>
>>>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
>>>
>>> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>>> the US?

>>
>> They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
>> illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
>>

>
>
>According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
>came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
>750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
>That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
>of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
>US for treatment.


Many of those from here would likely be cosmetic and ops that are paid
for by our system that are not obtainable here. I remember a child
from the maritimes going to Johns Hopkins and people fundraising to
make it easier for the parents while there, but the childs treatment
was paid for, something rare, I'd never heard of it before.
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>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/i...settlements/On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 12:56:31 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-09-01 12:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article >,
>> >> says...
>> >>>
>> >>> In article >, graham > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>> graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense per
>> >>>>> capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or are we
>> >>>>> treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than others?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs being
>> >>>> higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is no
>> >>>> profit margin.
>> >>>
>> >>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
>> >>
>> >> Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>> >> the US?
>> >
>> > They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
>> > illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.
>> >

>>
>> According to Wikipedia's article on medical tourism, 65-80,000 people
>> came to the US for medical procedures in 2008. That same year saw
>> 750,000 Americans travelling to other countries for medical procedures.
>> That means there are toughly ten times as many Americans travelling out
>> of the country for treatment than there are foreigners travelling to the
>> US for treatment.

>
>And then you have me that stays home and treats myself. So far, so
>good.


The advantage in that is twofold. Quicker and then I have a tot of
rum Didn't this time as my tetanus was well out of date and I
couldn't know where the dolly had been.


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> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 12:02:36 -0400, Brooklyn1
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:05:45 +1000, Bruce >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
says...
>>>>
>>>> In article >, graham >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 8/31/2016 10:04 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > graham, is that just the Medicare per capita spending, or defense
>>>> > > per
>>>> > > capita? If it's just Medicare, are we just sicker than others or
>>>> > > are we
>>>> > > treating more illness than others, or are our costs higher than
>>>> > > others?
>>>> >
>>>> > Medicare and the amount spent. I understand it is all due to costs
>>>> > being
>>>> > higher. Remember, in single payer (government run) systems, there is
>>>> > no
>>>> > profit margin.
>>>>
>>>> There is no reason to innovate or become more efficient either.
>>>
>>>Then why does every western country have a better healthcare system than
>>>the US?

>>
>>They don't. When people in other countries are striken with a serious
>>illness if they are able they come to the US for treatment.

>
> That is absolutely false! I know people with pads in Florida for the
> winter, many who have uninsurable heart problems for example, lay
> plans to be swiftly driven back to Canada in an emergency. You are
> spouting insurance company speak.


My relatives in Regina are very happy with Canadian health care. I would be
too.

Cheri

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Cheri wrote:
>
> I did for 13 of my later years, as I said...I was amazed at the bodies
> ability to heal itself for so many things.


I think a lot is in your mind too. Seriously.

When I was married and got sick, wife would baby me and care for me. I
stayed sick for many days.

Then when I became a single parent and got sick, no one to care for me
plus I still had to care for my daughter.....amazing how quickly I
healed and to be honest I rarely got sick all of her school years. And
if I did, I healed so quickly. It was a good thing! :-D
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On 9/1/2016 12:07 PM, Gary wrote:
> Cheri wrote:
>>
>> I did for 13 of my later years, as I said...I was amazed at the bodies
>> ability to heal itself for so many things.

>
> I think a lot is in your mind too. Seriously.
>
> When I was married and got sick, wife would baby me and care for me. I
> stayed sick for many days.
>
> Then when I became a single parent and got sick, no one to care for me
> plus I still had to care for my daughter.....amazing how quickly I
> healed and to be honest I rarely got sick all of her school years. And
> if I did, I healed so quickly. It was a good thing! :-D
>



I think we should put you in charge of our welfare system, in all its
various forms.
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Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 12:31:04 AM UTC-4, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> > In article >, Ed
> > Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > We have insurance. We pay a premium instead of taxes. My wife was in
> > > the hospital overnight for a procedure. The billed cost was a bit over
> > > $200,000. Our total cost was $0. The actual paid was $35,000 though.

> >
> > While I absolutely agree with your bill particulars, I call accounting
> > shenanigans. I've been through this a few times in twenty years. If you
> > don't have insurance, you're on the hook for 200K and are in the least
> > able to pay category. If you have insurance, the insurance company pays
> > 35K and you pay nothing. Where did the 165K go?

>
> The thing probably actually is worth 100K, so the uninsured guy who
> paid his entire 200K subsidized the guy with insurance. Just my guess.
>
> Or else the thing actually is worth 35K, and the uninsured guy subsidized
> everybody who doesn't pay the bill.


over $200K for an overnight procedure is silly anyway. sounds to me like
the hospitals are big business and ripping people off.
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