On 2016-08-18 3:58 PM, Gary wrote:

> Face it, William. You're just a cheapskate like Dave. Save all your tip
> money and cook at home....problem solved.
>


Me? Cheap? You are being obtuse. I tip. I don't think we should have
to, tip, but I do. I would be willing to pay more for meals if the
money was going to be used to pay the servers more. In France they
often have service included in the bill and they have to have a not on
the bill that service is included. I had no problem with that, except
that Paris is exempted from that requirement because it is always
included. Waiters in that city make a killing from naive tourists who
go ahead and tip anyway, not realizing that their 15-20% tip is on top
of the 15% they are already paying.

On 8/18/2016 11:55 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

>>
>> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy
>>
>
> It is not a matter of empathy. It is a matter of how badly disabled
> someone can be and still manage to drive a vehicle, even with special
> controls.

I see a guy around town frequently. His wheelchair is in a pod on the
roof. He opens the door, reaches up and brings the chair down and takes
off from there. Given that the filler is on the same side as the pump
it would be difficult in some stations to leave space to get out and
pump his own. Given the time he needs to get out and back in, I'd
gladly pump it for him and I don't pump my own.

On 8/18/2016 1:19 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>>>>
>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>
>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>> a wheelchair.
>>
>> Really? It would have to be a pretty short person in a very short
>> wheelchair. I am 6 feet tall and I usually don't even have to raise my
>> hands much to reach them.
>
> Hadn't thought seriously about it before. I recently observed
> a sign on the gas pump that said to call the cashier for
> assistance if one is handicapped and can't reach everything
> on the pump. If I think of it, next time I fill up I'll glance
> around while I'm still sitting in my car (which is higher than
> a wheelchair) and extrapolate what it might be like to be a few
> inches lower down.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

At a Shell station I frequent the pump has dual credit card and keypad
for that reason. It is below my belt line.

On 8/18/2016 3:52 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places
>>> people who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it
>>> expected that they will get tips. Around here it is only people
>>> serving liquor directly to customers who get a lower minimum.
>>> Waiters in non licensed restaurants get the same minimum wage as
>>> the store clerks, gas station attendants, and some factory jobs.
>>
>> It's the cost of doing things. Tipping is pretty much a social
>> obligation and I'm all about fulfilling social obligations.
>
>
> Paying decent wages should be a social obligation. Tipping is an
> obsolete form of remuneration for menial workers. They should be paid a
> decent wage by the restaurant and should not have to rely on the
> generosity of the customers.

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!


>
>> I can assure that the staff in the
>> kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel
>> slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.
>
> Yep. Most of them are working for low wages too. They expect to get a
> piece if the action. Thanks to the less than logical system we have,
> the waiter is the one who gets the tips and is expected to pay income
> tax on it, but the kitchen staff, not being in a position to be tipped
> directly, aren't expected to pay taxes.
>
> I have eating in restaurants in countries where there is no tipping
> culture, and service is good. You just don't get to make your server
> sing and dance for the tips.
>
With the govt mandating a move to a $15 minimum wage in Alberta, the
restaurants are protesting big time. They complain that they will have
to increase prices. However, when you get the card machine to pay, they
often suggest a 20% tip!! In the UK, 10% is the norm for good service
so the restos could increase their prices to pay everyone a decent wage
and reduce the tip levels or stop them completely.
Graham

On 2016-08-18 8:49 PM, graham wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 3:52 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>

> With the govt mandating a move to a $15 minimum wage in Alberta, the
> restaurants are protesting big time. They complain that they will have
> to increase prices. However, when you get the card machine to pay, they
> often suggest a 20% tip!!

They can suggest all they want. I have heard server argue that the old
15% standard should now be 20% because of inflation. Apparently the
don't understand that the same percentage on the higher prices gets them
a larger tip. Those machines also calculate the tip percentage on the
total bill including tax.

> In the UK, 10% is the norm for good service
> so the restos could increase their prices to pay everyone a decent wage
> and reduce the tip levels or stop them completely.


I find it curious that so many people insist on tipping certain workers
and thing everyone should do so generously, but they are opposed to
increasing prices by 15% to include service.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 4:41:03 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > >
> > > " wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > > here
> > >
> > > LOL!
> > >
> > >
> > That turned over your tickle box?
>
> What do you get for $5? Some deep-fried roadside tumbleweed and a glass
> of chlorinated water?
>
>
I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
different eating establishments arrive in the mail here. Too
bad none of the places in yours or Gary's location make these
available to patrons.

Dinner buffets are substantially higher and around here there
are no coupons for those meals.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 4:41:03 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > >
> > > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > > >
> > > > " wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > > > here
> > > >
> > > > LOL!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > That turned over your tickle box?
> >
> > What do you get for $5? Some deep-fried roadside tumbleweed and a glass
> > of chlorinated water?
> >
> >
> I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> different eating establishments arrive in the mail here. Too
> bad none of the places in yours or Gary's location make these
> available to patrons.
>
> Dinner buffets are substantially higher and around here there
> are no coupons for those meals.

Good for you if it's so affordable where you live.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 9:31:43 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT), "
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > here and I'm certainly not going to give them a 100% tip.
> >
> > Feedbag type buffets seem to be typical of those who complain about
> > leaving a tip.
> >
> >
> I'm not complaining about leaving a tip just commenting on the
> 'need' or 'deservedness' of a 50 - 100% tip because someone removed
> a plate or two, or even the possibility of refilling a glass.
>
> Paying $10 for a buffet meal and then slapping down a $10 bill
> for a 'tip' doesn't make someone worthy of praise and admiration.
>
> As far as 'feedbag type buffets' well, hold onto your garters, ALL
> buffets are feedbag type establishments if you want to make a statement.
> You think some buffets are for those who eat like a bird and
> others for those who feed like they are at a trough? Once again
> ALL buffets, yes every one of them, are feedbag establishments.
>
> Sometimes Babs, I think you make statements just to see if you
> can outdo Julie on the ridiculousness.

The people who eat at buffets and then complain about leaving a tip
are ridiculous. Go to a drive through if you're that cheap.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:00:23 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 4:41:03 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > says...
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > " wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > > > > here
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > That turned over your tickle box?
> > >
> > > What do you get for $5? Some deep-fried roadside tumbleweed and a glass
> > > of chlorinated water?
> > >
> > >
> > I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> > meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> > different eating establishments arrive in the mail here. Too
> > bad none of the places in yours or Gary's location make these
> > available to patrons.
> >
> > Dinner buffets are substantially higher and around here there
> > are no coupons for those meals.
>
> Good for you if it's so affordable where you live.

It must be some fancy establishment like a Golden Corral wannabe.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:40:28 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> In France they
> often have service included in the bill and they have to have a not on
> the bill that service is included. I had no problem with that, except
> that Paris is exempted from that requirement because it is always
> included. Waiters in that city make a killing from naive tourists who
> go ahead and tip anyway, not realizing that their 15-20% tip is on top
> of the 15% they are already paying.

Dave, Dave, Dave. It's obvious you were a naive tourist.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 8/19/2016 12:39 AM, wrote:

> I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> different eating establishments arrive in the mail here.

FWIW, you are expected to tip on the amount of your meal
before the coupon is deducted.

nancy

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:24 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:


>>
>> Nearly all gas stations have convenience stores attached, it doesn't
>> take much time for a person to emerge from there, pump the gas, take
>> the money and allow the disabled person to go on their way.
>
>
>
>While they are out there pumping gas there is no one there to watch the
>store. That means there is no one there to take money from the other
>customers and presents a serious security problem.
>>
> > You are a
> > very harsh person, be careful you don't wind up in a wheelchair, you
> > know, one of your kyakking experiences gone wrong in the rapids, as I
> > doubt there is anybody who would be willing to help you!!!
>
>Aren't you afraid of a similar problem when you fall of the high horse
>of yours? I merely said that it is difficult to understand how someone
>can be so disabled that they cannot pump their own gas and still be able
>to drive. Both require a certain degree of motor skills. There are not
>that many people who are limited to vehicle with hand controls.
>
>It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>full service station.

Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at
best a huge struggle to get in and out of their vehicle - you could
look at it more selfishly of course, if someone didn't go out to them,
they would monopolise a pump for quite some time and it might be you
waiting behind them!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>
>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>
>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>
>Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>
There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:55:51 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-18 8:49 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 8/18/2016 3:52 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>
>> With the govt mandating a move to a $15 minimum wage in Alberta, the
>> restaurants are protesting big time. They complain that they will have
>> to increase prices. However, when you get the card machine to pay, they
>> often suggest a 20% tip!!
>
>They can suggest all they want. I have heard server argue that the old
>15% standard should now be 20% because of inflation. Apparently the
>don't understand that the same percentage on the higher prices gets them
>a larger tip. Those machines also calculate the tip percentage on the
>total bill including tax.
>
> > In the UK, 10% is the norm for good service
>> so the restos could increase their prices to pay everyone a decent wage
>> and reduce the tip levels or stop them completely.
>
>
>I find it curious that so many people insist on tipping certain workers
>and thing everyone should do so generously, but they are opposed to
>increasing prices by 15% to include service.

If the bill includes the tip it means those who genuinely try to look
after your table get the same reward as one who would crash the plates
down in front of you. Hate that system. BTW the French on the
whole, don't like it either but it's just as hard to revert back to
tipping individually as it is to bring in tip included.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:06:22 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 8/19/2016 12:39 AM, wrote:
>
>> I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
>> meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
>> different eating establishments arrive in the mail here.
>
>FWIW, you are expected to tip on the amount of your meal
>before the coupon is deducted.
>
>nancy

You'll give Dave a heart attack saying that

On 8/19/2016 7:40 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:06:22 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
>> On 8/19/2016 12:39 AM, wrote:
>>
>>> I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
>>> meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
>>> different eating establishments arrive in the mail here.
>>
>> FWIW, you are expected to tip on the amount of your meal
>> before the coupon is deducted.

> You'll give Dave a heart attack saying that

(laugh) I was hoping I didn't cause any coronary events.

I've seen places that regularly have coupons list the different
tip amounts by percentage because their waitstaff must take a
beating because people don't tip on the right amount.

nancy

On 2016-08-19 2:41 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "

>> Sometimes Babs, I think you make statements just to see if you
>> can outdo Julie on the ridiculousness.
>
> The people who eat at buffets and then complain about leaving a tip
> are ridiculous. Go to a drive through if you're that cheap.
What? You don't tip the people at the drive thru? They make minimum wage
to take your order and serve it to you.

>

On 2016-08-19 2:47 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:40:28 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> In France they
>> often have service included in the bill and they have to have a not on
>> the bill that service is included. I had no problem with that, except
>> that Paris is exempted from that requirement because it is always
>> included. Waiters in that city make a killing from naive tourists who
>> go ahead and tip anyway, not realizing that their 15-20% tip is on top
>> of the 15% they are already paying.
>
> Dave, Dave, Dave. It's obvious you were a naive tourist.
>


Care to explain that? I was aware of the practice. I asked and it was
explained to me.

On 2016-08-19 7:23 AM, wrote:

>> It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>> hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>> pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>> offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>> full service station.
>
> Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
> people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
> spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at

I call bullshit on that one. I deal with a number of local self serve
stations and only one of then typically has more than one person on
duty, and that is because they are almost always busy and there are
people lined up to pay.

On 2016-08-19 7:25 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>>
>>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>>
>>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>>
>> Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>> there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>> for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>> expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>> not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>>
> There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
> where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
> thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
> someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???

I simply said that it is hard to imagine someone being so disabled that
they could not pump gas and still be able to drive. You invented the
rest of it. I don't begrudge someone who is in such bad shape going to
a full service gas station, but I can appreciate that a station operator
would be reluctant to hire extra staff to have on hand for that rare case.
>

On 2016-08-19 7:36 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:55:51 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>

>> I find it curious that so many people insist on tipping certain workers
>> and thing everyone should do so generously, but they are opposed to
>> increasing prices by 15% to include service.
>
> If the bill includes the tip it means those who genuinely try to look
> after your table get the same reward as one who would crash the plates
> down in front of you. Hate that system.

Okay. I see. You are one of those who likes to make servers sing and
dance for their tips.


>BTW the French on the
> whole, don't like it either but it's just as hard to revert back to
> tipping individually as it is to bring in tip included.

They don't. We once had a nice talk with a French waiter in a German
restaurant. He explained that it was customary to leave some change if
you are especially pleased and he was quite scornful of big tippers.

>http://www.holywellhousepublishing.c...ckenzie.htmlOn Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:05:52 -0400, Dave Smith > wrote:

>On 2016-08-19 7:23 AM, wrote:
>
>>> It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>>> hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>>> pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>>> offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>>> full service station.
>>
>> Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
>> people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
>> spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at
>
>I call bullshit on that one. I deal with a number of local self serve
>stations and only one of then typically has more than one person on
>duty, and that is because they are almost always busy and there are
>people lined up to pay.
>
>
>
Bullshit becomes you well ! All our stations have two on duty to
take the money from people who don't pay at the pump and the other
does some shelf stocking - or goes and assists handicapped drivers.

I really do not understand what you have against handicapped people.
Do you really think they WANT to be in a chair ? How do you feel if
the person concerned is a vet whose legs were blown off to keep you
safe ?

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:09:23 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-19 7:25 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>>>
>>>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>>>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>>>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>>>
>>>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>>>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>>>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>>>
>>> Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>>> there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>>> for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>>> expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>>> not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>>>
>> There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
>> where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
>> thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
>> someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???
>
>I simply said that it is hard to imagine someone being so disabled that
>they could not pump gas and still be able to drive. You invented the
>rest of it. I don't begrudge someone who is in such bad shape going to
>a full service gas station, but I can appreciate that a station operator
>would be reluctant to hire extra staff to have on hand for that rare case.
>>
It may be hard for you to imagine, it may even most likely be possible
for the person to get out, take their chair and pump the gas. It
takes a hell of a lot more effort than simply stepping out of your
car. Then again if the person ahead of you did haul themselves from
the car, drag their vehicle out, get in the chair, awkwardly manage to
pump the gas, then get reverse the process to get back in, if you were
waiting bet you would be fit to be tied!

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:13:09 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-19 7:36 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:55:51 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>
>>> I find it curious that so many people insist on tipping certain workers
>>> and thing everyone should do so generously, but they are opposed to
>>> increasing prices by 15% to include service.
>>
>> If the bill includes the tip it means those who genuinely try to look
>> after your table get the same reward as one who would crash the plates
>> down in front of you. Hate that system.
>
>Okay. I see. You are one of those who likes to make servers sing and
>dance for their tips.

No, but I like to give extra to pleasant servers. They can be
pleasant without singing and dancing. I do so hope you never appear
in a restaurant as a server.
>
>
>>BTW the French on the
>> whole, don't like it either but it's just as hard to revert back to
>> tipping individually as it is to bring in tip included.
>
>They don't. We once had a nice talk with a French waiter in a German
>restaurant. He explained that it was customary to leave some change if
>you are especially pleased and he was quite scornful of big tippers.
>
>
What would you think he would say???

graham > wrote:
>Dave cheap ******* Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places
>>>> people who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it
>>>> expected that they will get tips. Around here it is only people
>>>> serving liquor directly to customers who get a lower minimum.
>>>> Waiters in non licensed restaurants get the same minimum wage as
>>>> the store clerks, gas station attendants, and some factory jobs.
>>>
>>> It's the cost of doing things. Tipping is pretty much a social
>>> obligation and I'm all about fulfilling social obligations.
>>
>> Paying decent wages should be a social obligation. Tipping is an
>> obsolete form of remuneration for menial workers. They should be paid a
>> decent wage by the restaurant and should not have to rely on the
>> generosity of the customers.
>
>I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>> I can assure that the staff in the
>>> kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel
>>> slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.
>>
>> Yep. Most of them are working for low wages too. They expect to get a
>> piece if the action. Thanks to the less than logical system we have,
>> the waiter is the one who gets the tips and is expected to pay income
>> tax on it, but the kitchen staff, not being in a position to be tipped
>> directly, aren't expected to pay taxes.
>>
>> I have eating in restaurants in countries where there is no tipping
>> culture, and service is good. You just don't get to make your server
>> sing and dance for the tips.
>>
>With the govt mandating a move to a $15 minimum wage in Alberta, the
>restaurants are protesting big time. They complain that they will have
>to increase prices. However, when you get the card machine to pay, they
>often suggest a 20% tip!! In the UK, 10% is the norm for good service
>so the restos could increase their prices to pay everyone a decent wage
>and reduce the tip levels or stop them completely.
>Graham

Without tipping there'd be no way to regulate the level of service
provided. Without tipping all service will degrade to the lowest
common denominator, no server will perform better than the laziest
slacker of the bunch. In the service industry the person performing
the service works *directly* for the patron, in most instances the
better their service the higher their wage and they recognize this
fact... except when serving the CHEAP *******S such as YOOSE who know
who YOOSE are, YOOSE CHEAP *******S who don't believe in mother's day
gifts... YOOSE CHEAP *******S who ruin it for others. The server
YOOSE stiffed remembers, next time they'll add a big lunger to your
plate, and deservingly so.

On 2016-08-19 9:13 AM, wrote:
>> http://www.holywellhousepublishing.c...ckenzie.htmlOn Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:05:52 -0400, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-19 7:23 AM, wrote:
>>
>>>> It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>>>> hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>>>> pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>>>> offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>>>> full service station.
>>>
>>> Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
>>> people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
>>> spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at
>>
>> I call bullshit on that one. I deal with a number of local self serve
>> stations and only one of then typically has more than one person on
>> duty, and that is because they are almost always busy and there are
>> people lined up to pay.
>>
>>
>>
> Bullshit becomes you well ! All our stations have two on duty to
> take the money from people who don't pay at the pump and the other
> does some shelf stocking - or goes and assists handicapped drivers.

Yeah, right. Most of them here have only one, and they are kept pretty
busy with people coming in to pay for the gas they pumped.
>
> I really do not understand what you have against handicapped people.
> Do you really think they WANT to be in a chair ? How do you feel if
> the person concerned is a vet whose legs were blown off to keep you
> safe ?

Jesus you are being an ass about this. I have nothing against
handicapped people and would not want to be in their position. Once
again I will say that it is hard to imagine them being so disabled that
they cannot pump gas but still be able to drive, and that I can
understand station operators being reluctant to hire extra staff just in
case they may have to pump gas for the very rare case where a person
cannot pump it. They are are self serve stations.

>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:01:22 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-19 2:41 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "
>
>>> Sometimes Babs, I think you make statements just to see if you
>>> can outdo Julie on the ridiculousness.
>>
>> The people who eat at buffets and then complain about leaving a tip
>> are ridiculous. Go to a drive through if you're that cheap.
>
>What? You don't tip the people at the drive thru? They make minimum wage
>to take your order and serve it to you.

I often use the drive thru at the pharmacy and at the bank, there's no
tipping expected.

On 2016-08-19 9:16 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:09:23 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-19 7:25 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>>>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>>>>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>>>>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>>>>
>>>>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>>>>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>>>>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>>>>
>>>> Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>>>> there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>>>> for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>>>> expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>>>> not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>>>>
>>> There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
>>> where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
>>> thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
>>> someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???
>>
>> I simply said that it is hard to imagine someone being so disabled that
>> they could not pump gas and still be able to drive. You invented the
>> rest of it. I don't begrudge someone who is in such bad shape going to
>> a full service gas station, but I can appreciate that a station operator
>> would be reluctant to hire extra staff to have on hand for that rare case.
>>>
> It may be hard for you to imagine, it may even most likely be possible
> for the person to get out, take their chair and pump the gas.

Try taking a step into the real world. There are very few wheelchair
bound drivers and very few who have to use hand controls. You may see
lots of cars with wheelchairs and handicapped parking stickers, but the
handicapped person is more likely to be the passenger than the driver.



It
> takes a hell of a lot more effort than simply stepping out of your
> car. Then again if the person ahead of you did haul themselves from
> the car, drag their vehicle out, get in the chair, awkwardly manage to
> pump the gas, then get reverse the process to get back in, if you were
> waiting bet you would be fit to be tied!

I'd be looking up you phone number so you could come and help.

>

On 2016-08-19 9:18 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:13:09 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-19 7:36 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:55:51 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> I find it curious that so many people insist on tipping certain workers
>>>> and thing everyone should do so generously, but they are opposed to
>>>> increasing prices by 15% to include service.
>>>
>>> If the bill includes the tip it means those who genuinely try to look
>>> after your table get the same reward as one who would crash the plates
>>> down in front of you. Hate that system.
>>
>> Okay. I see. You are one of those who likes to make servers sing and
>> dance for their tips.
>
> No, but I like to give extra to pleasant servers. They can be
> pleasant without singing and dancing. I do so hope you never appear
> in a restaurant as a server.
>>
>>
>>> BTW the French on the
>>> whole, don't like it either but it's just as hard to revert back to
>>> tipping individually as it is to bring in tip included.
>>
>> They don't. We once had a nice talk with a French waiter in a German
>> restaurant. He explained that it was customary to leave some change if
>> you are especially pleased and he was quite scornful of big tippers.
>>
>>
> What would you think he would say???
>


When he was discouraging us from tipping him?

On 2016-08-19 9:44 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> graham > wrote:

>> With the govt mandating a move to a $15 minimum wage in Alberta, the
>> restaurants are protesting big time. They complain that they will have
>> to increase prices. However, when you get the card machine to pay, they
>> often suggest a 20% tip!! In the UK, 10% is the norm for good service
>> so the restos could increase their prices to pay everyone a decent wage
>> and reduce the tip levels or stop them completely.
>> Graham
>
> Without tipping there'd be no way to regulate the level of service
> provided. Without tipping all service will degrade to the lowest
> common denominator, no server will perform better than the laziest
> slacker of the bunch.


Nonsense. They have managers monitoring their performance. I would
rather have my performance and my remuneration rated by a reasonable
boss than by an unreasonable customer.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:00:31 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>
> > I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> > meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> > different eating establishments arrive in the mail here. Too
> > bad none of the places in yours or Gary's location make these
> > available to patrons.
> >
> > Dinner buffets are substantially higher and around here there
> > are no coupons for those meals.
>
> Good for you if it's so affordable where you live.
>
>
It is verrrrry affordable compared to New York City, Miami,
San Francisco, etc.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 1:41:57 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 9:31:43 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT), "
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > > here and I'm certainly not going to give them a 100% tip.
> > >
> > > Feedbag type buffets seem to be typical of those who complain about
> > > leaving a tip.
> > >
> > >
> > I'm not complaining about leaving a tip just commenting on the
> > 'need' or 'deservedness' of a 50 - 100% tip because someone removed
> > a plate or two, or even the possibility of refilling a glass.
> >
> > Paying $10 for a buffet meal and then slapping down a $10 bill
> > for a 'tip' doesn't make someone worthy of praise and admiration.
> >
> > As far as 'feedbag type buffets' well, hold onto your garters, ALL
> > buffets are feedbag type establishments if you want to make a statement.
> > You think some buffets are for those who eat like a bird and
> > others for those who feed like they are at a trough? Once again
> > ALL buffets, yes every one of them, are feedbag establishments.
> >
> > Sometimes Babs, I think you make statements just to see if you
> > can outdo Julie on the ridiculousness.
>
> The people who eat at buffets and then complain about leaving a tip
> are ridiculous. Go to a drive through if you're that cheap.
>
>
You are arguing just for the love of arguing. I have no problem
leaving a tip; clean your glasses or renew your prescription.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 1:44:02 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:00:23 +1000, Bruce >
> wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > >
> > > > What do you get for $5? Some deep-fried roadside tumbleweed and a glass
> > > > of chlorinated water?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> > > meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> > > different eating establishments arrive in the mail here. Too
> > > bad none of the places in yours or Gary's location make these
> > > available to patrons.
> > >
> > > Dinner buffets are substantially higher and around here there
> > > are no coupons for those meals.
> >
> > Good for you if it's so affordable where you live.
>
> It must be some fancy establishment like a Golden Corral wannabe.
>
>
I don't even know if there's a Golden Corral around here or not.
Never have eaten there.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 6:06:36 AM UTC-5, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> On 8/19/2016 12:39 AM, wrote:
>
> > I said in the $5 - $10 RANGE. When you drink water with your
> > meal you've already saved $2 - $3. Frequently coupons for
> > different eating establishments arrive in the mail here.
>
> FWIW, you are expected to tip on the amount of your meal
> before the coupon is deducted.
>
> nancy
>
>
I tip the same amount whether I have a coupon or not.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:23:44 -0300, wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:24 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> Nearly all gas stations have convenience stores attached, it doesn't
>>> take much time for a person to emerge from there, pump the gas, take
>>> the money and allow the disabled person to go on their way.
>>
>>
>>
>>While they are out there pumping gas there is no one there to watch the
>>store. That means there is no one there to take money from the other
>>customers and presents a serious security problem.
>>>
>> > You are a
>> > very harsh person, be careful you don't wind up in a wheelchair, you
>> > know, one of your kyakking experiences gone wrong in the rapids, as I
>> > doubt there is anybody who would be willing to help you!!!
>>
>>Aren't you afraid of a similar problem when you fall of the high horse
>>of yours? I merely said that it is difficult to understand how someone
>>can be so disabled that they cannot pump their own gas and still be able
>>to drive. Both require a certain degree of motor skills. There are not
>>that many people who are limited to vehicle with hand controls.
>>
>>It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>>hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>>pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>>offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>>full service station.
>
>Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
>people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
>spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at
>best a huge struggle to get in and out of their vehicle - you could
>look at it more selfishly of course, if someone didn't go out to them,
>they would monopolise a pump for quite some time and it might be you
>waiting behind them!

I live in a small town (actually a village) with only two gas
stations, both with rather large convenience stores (Cumberland Farms
& Stewart's Shops) that employ a large staff, at any given time at
least 8-10 employees. Anyone needing assistance at the pumps there's
an intercom at each with a button that's easily reached through the
drivers window... ask for assistance and someone will be there within
a few minutes.
https://www.cumberlandfarms.com/
http://www.stewartsshops.com/

On 8/19/2016 9:57 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-19 9:44 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Without tipping there'd be no way to regulate the level of service
>> provided. Without tipping all service will degrade to the lowest
>> common denominator, no server will perform better than the laziest
>> slacker of the bunch.
>
>
> Nonsense. They have managers monitoring their performance. I would
> rather have my performance and my remuneration rated by a reasonable
> boss than by an unreasonable customer.
>
Once upon a time on a very busy Friday night during dinner rush, an
extremely rude customer was upset because I couldn't take their food
order immediately. I brought them their water and cocktails (the bar
was also packed) and said I'd be right back. I had four other tables to
deal with. He was bitching very loudly. This guy was oblivous to the
fact he and his three friends were not the only people in the
restaurant. He wanted a personal servant.

I finally sent the manager over. He attempted to explain to the guy it
was the middle of the dinner rush. He comped their drinks, which is
what I suspect the guy was after all along. I took their order, their
food arrived in about 20 minutes. He was still bitching and left no tip.

Relying on customers to provide servers their wages is NOT the way to
guarantee better service. Do the best you can and still some people
will NEVER be happy and will not tip regardless.

Jill

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:25:51 -0300, wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>>On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>>
>>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>>
>>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>>
>>Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>>there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>>for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>>expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>>not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>>
>There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
>where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
>thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
>someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???

The gas stations here are not full service in that they provide no
mechanical assistance but there's an intercom at the pumps for those
needing assistance with pumping gas. There are three auto mechanic
establishments nearby but they don't sell gas.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:44:19 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Without tipping there'd be no way to regulate the level of service
>provided. Without tipping all service will degrade to the lowest
>common denominator, no server will perform better than the laziest
>slacker of the bunch. In the service industry the person performing
>the service works *directly* for the patron, in most instances the
>better their service the higher their wage and they recognize this
>fact... except when serving the CHEAP *******S such as YOOSE who know
>who YOOSE are, YOOSE CHEAP *******S who don't believe in mother's day
>gifts... YOOSE CHEAP *******S who ruin it for others. The server
>YOOSE stiffed remembers, next time they'll add a big lunger to your
>plate, and deservingly so.

you're exactly right Sheldon! My point has been completely overlooked
in this debate. There is no question in my mind about "tipping" for
service you receive in a restaurant. I think everyone should tip
proportionately. If you are waited on properly in a conventional
restaurant, you should always tip a minimum of 15%. If you are in a
self service restaurant where a person is removing used plates from
your table AND NOTHING ELSE IS DONE FOR YOU do they deserve a standard
tip for the amount of labor performed? Are the "busing" people
supposed to be tipped? Is "busing" included in the price of your meal?
I ask these questions because I want to know what most people think is
fair to the "server" as well as the "patron". I used to have lunch
quite a bit with a fellow who never tipped. Absolutely never! We
frequented the same restaurants over and over. I always carefully
examined his plate when served for evidence of looggies. I never
noticed one but I thought surely there must be a dog turd buried under
those mashed potatoes.

William

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:09:23 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-19 7:25 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:41 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>>>>> to work the gas pump.
>>>>>
>>>> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
>>>> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
>>>> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>>>>
>>>> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
>>>> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
>>>> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>>>>
>>> Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
>>> there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
>>> for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
>>> expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
>>> not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.
>>>
>> There are no full service stations here, or doubtless that would be
>> where they would go. I don't understand your problem with this, I am
>> thankful I don't need a wheelchair so why on earth would I begrudge
>> someone full service at a gas station who is in a wheelchair???
>
>I simply said that it is hard to imagine someone being so disabled that
>they could not pump gas and still be able to drive. You invented the
>rest of it. I don't begrudge someone who is in such bad shape going to
>a full service gas station, but I can appreciate that a station operator
>would be reluctant to hire extra staff to have on hand for that rare case.

The Canucks where you live must be the most selfish uncaring *******s
on the planet... are you saying that another patron wouldn't help a
handicapped person by taking two minutes to fill their tank?!?!?
I've driven all through Canada and not once did I see a gas station
with only one attendant... even way out in the boonies with nothing
but farmland for hundreds of kilometers and every 14 kilometers
there's a gas station attached to a small convenience store and all
have at least 3-4 employees visible... most offered to pump gas, check
oil and tires... not like they're too busy as there's so little
traffic that they're lucky to have one fill up an hour. I know it was
every 14 kilometrs because I noticed just as the last one disappeared
from the rear view mirror another appeared on the horizon... being
farmland there'd be huge very tall silos/grain mills near each gas
station, I checked and they were every 14 kilometers from The Peg all
the way heading west until I reached the Rockies... not many towns
along the way, guess you can count Moose Jaw and Medicine Hat, only
large city being Regina... I'll never forget Regina because the locals
pronounce it the same as Vagina. I've probably seen more of Canada
than most Canucks.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:16:17 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:23:44 -0300, wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:24 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Nearly all gas stations have convenience stores attached, it doesn't
>>>> take much time for a person to emerge from there, pump the gas, take
>>>> the money and allow the disabled person to go on their way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>While they are out there pumping gas there is no one there to watch the
>>>store. That means there is no one there to take money from the other
>>>customers and presents a serious security problem.
>>>>
>>> > You are a
>>> > very harsh person, be careful you don't wind up in a wheelchair, you
>>> > know, one of your kyakking experiences gone wrong in the rapids, as I
>>> > doubt there is anybody who would be willing to help you!!!
>>>
>>>Aren't you afraid of a similar problem when you fall of the high horse
>>>of yours? I merely said that it is difficult to understand how someone
>>>can be so disabled that they cannot pump their own gas and still be able
>>>to drive. Both require a certain degree of motor skills. There are not
>>>that many people who are limited to vehicle with hand controls.
>>>
>>>It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
>>>hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
>>>pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
>>>offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
>>>full service station.
>>
>>Gas stations are bigger these days - there are usually three or four
>>people in the store (that's for their safety) so one can readily be
>>spared to take five minutes pumping gas for someone for whom it is at
>>best a huge struggle to get in and out of their vehicle - you could
>>look at it more selfishly of course, if someone didn't go out to them,
>>they would monopolise a pump for quite some time and it might be you
>>waiting behind them!
>
>I live in a small town (actually a village) with only two gas
>stations, both with rather large convenience stores (Cumberland Farms
>& Stewart's Shops) that employ a large staff, at any given time at
>least 8-10 employees. Anyone needing assistance at the pumps there's
>an intercom at each with a button that's easily reached through the
>drivers window... ask for assistance and someone will be there within
>a few minutes.
>https://www.cumberlandfarms.com/
>http://www.stewartsshops.com/

Don't tell Dave that!