On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> There used to be six stations
> >> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
> >> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now there is
> >> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In the
> >> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
> >>
> >
> > There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
> > there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
> > first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
> > gone now, all self service.
> >
>
>
> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.

The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
a wheelchair.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:39:38 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> I can't remember the last time I had full service here. All out gas
> stations are self serve. The cashiers get minimum wage just like
> servers. This thread has been about tipping at buffets... self service
> restaurants.

Oh? Do you clear your own table too?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 8/18/2016 9:41 AM, wrote:

> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
> gone now, all self service.

I remember the requirement of having one full service spot in
each gas station back when self service was in the news years
ago.

And that's why you can't believe promises like that, as soon as
the dust settles, things change.

nancy

On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:

>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>
> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
> a wheelchair.

Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
drive but not operate a gas pump.

nancy

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:09:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:


>>>
>>
>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>> gone now, all self service.
>>
>
>
>It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.

Not really. There are modified vehicles but I can't see making
everyone get out and pump the gas themselves. It would, at the very
least, be bad p.r.for the gas station, at least I would hope so.

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:

>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>
> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
> a wheelchair.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

But...it's Dave, he decides who is handicapped enough or not and who should
or shouldn't be parking in handicapped spaces.

Cheri

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>
>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>> a wheelchair.
>
>Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>drive but not operate a gas pump.
>
>nancy

You're looking for Dave to have some empathy

On 8/18/2016 10:09 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
> There used to be six stations
>>> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
>>> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now there is
>>> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In the
>>> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
>>>
>>
>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>> gone now, all self service.
>>
>
>
> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>
You've never heard of hand controls in vehicles?

Jill

On 8/18/2016 10:28 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>
>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>> a wheelchair.
>
> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>
> nancy
>
That was my first thought. There are vehicles equipped with hand
controls for people who are paraplegic.

Jill

On 2016-08-18 10:10 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
>> here and I'm certainly not going to give them a 100% tip.
>
> Feedbag type buffets seem to be typical of those who complain about
> leaving a tip.

I call bull on that. I generally avoid buffets. I am forced to accept
the tipping culture even though I would be willing to pay 15% more on
menu prices for service so that servers did not have to rely on the
generosity of customers to supplement their low pay. However, there are
a lot more people out there who make minimum wage. FWIW, in Ontario the
minimum wage applies to servers, with the exception of those serving
alcohol, and that is only a little less than the regular minimum. What
I object to is the expectation to tip for service where you have had
little or no service. Other than a glass of water and other drinks
served, you don't get service at a buffet. You go and get your own
food. I don't agree that I should have to leave a 15% or more tip for
service on the buffet portion of the bill because I served myself.
Busing the table is not service for me. It is service for the restaurant.

On 2016-08-18 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>> There used to be six stations
>>>> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
>>>> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now there is
>>>> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In the
>>>> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>
> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
> a wheelchair.

Really? It would have to be a pretty short person in a very short
wheelchair. I am 6 feet tall and I usually don't even have to raise my
hands much to reach them.

I am reminded of a situation my son ran into when he was opening a
microbrewery restaurant in Toronto. The light switch behind the bar was
too high and had to be low enough that a person in a wheel chair could
reach it. Seriously? I know its very PC to think that all people should
have equal access to employment, but a bartender in a wheelchair??? On
what planet?

On 2016-08-18 10:14 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:39:38 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> I can't remember the last time I had full service here. All out gas
>> stations are self serve. The cashiers get minimum wage just like
>> servers. This thread has been about tipping at buffets... self service
>> restaurants.
>
> Oh? Do you clear your own table too?

Clearing the table is service to the restaurant, not to the customer.
>

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:58:02 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-17 9:25 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
>> wrote:
>>> On 2016-08-17 7:51 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On 8/17/2016 1:16 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-08-17 9:41 AM, Gary wrote:
>>>>>> William wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You're going out for a nice dinner. Don't be such a Scrooge.
>>>>>> Leave a tip and quit bitching about it or just stay home and
>>>>>> cook. I would rather serve myself with what I prefer and the
>>>>>> amounts than someone deciding for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> The next time you get your gas tank filled up, give the
>>>>> attendant a 15% tip. If it is self serve, give the cashier the
>>>>> same. They are both making minimum wage. If you can afford to
>>>>> go out in your car and enjoy the luxury of getting gas you can
>>>>> afford to tip.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll leave a 20% or more tip because I have great empathy for
>>>> those people that serve us food. My dad is a great dad but it's
>>>> embarrassing for me when he pays and leaves a tip at restaurants.
>>>> Sometimes I'll leave a few bucks supplementary tip.
>>> Why are you concerned only with minimum wage servers and not all
>>> the other people working for minimum wage?
>>
>> I'll always tip when there's a system for tipping established. I'm
>> mot going to tip the guy at Taco Bell because that's not usual or
>> customary - poor *******!
>>
>
>
>Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places people
>who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it expected that
>they will get tips. Around here it is only people serving liquor
>directly to customers who get a lower minimum. Waiters in non licensed
>restaurants get the same minimum wage as the store clerks, gas station
>attendants, and some factory jobs.


When I get personal service from someone who waits on me at a
restaurant, I feel obligated to pay them a 15% tip. They are waiting
tables to earn a living and they know what to expect for services
rendered.

I do not care what the minimum wage is. That has nothing to do with my
selection of services to purchase in the market place. If I go into a
self serve restaurant I am expecting to serve myself. If I go to a
full service restaurant I expect to be waited on. If I do not get
service, I will not pay for anything and walk out.

Nobody seems to know what the difference is between full service
restaurants and partial self service restaurants. Is there a
difference in the amount of service rendered when a server simply
removes dirty plates? I think so. Is this not what is called "busing"?
I feel there should be a generally accepted "percentage" of tipping
for this sort of "restricted" service. Say 5% versus 15%. Most
everyone reading this group seems to indicate if a server merely
smiles in the direction of your table, they deserve a full tip. I say
that is unfair to the hard working people who do actually wait on the
patrons at the table.

William

On 2016-08-18 10:28 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>
>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>> a wheelchair.
>
> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>
>

I agree it is not impossible, and I am sure there are those who will
press for the right to drive, but I still find it difficult to imagine
someone driving if they cannot even pump their own gas.

On 2016-08-18 10:55 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:09:15 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>
> Not really. There are modified vehicles but I can't see making
> everyone get out and pump the gas themselves.

I can see it if it is a self serve station and there is no one available
to pump it for them.


> It would, at the very
> least, be bad p.r.for the gas station, at least I would hope so.


Social media and a sympathetic press may try to put some pressure on
them but look at it from the station owner's perspective. It is a major
expense for them to have someone on hand to pump gas for the very very
tiny percentage of drivers who might me too disabled to do it themselves.

On 2016-08-18 10:58 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
>> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>
>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>> a wheelchair.
>>
>> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>>
>> nancy
>
> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy
>

It is not a matter of empathy. It is a matter of how badly disabled
someone can be and still manage to drive a vehicle, even with special
controls.

On 2016-08-18 11:07 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 10:09 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>> There used to be six stations
>>>> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
>>>> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now
>>>> there is
>>>> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In
>>>> the
>>>> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>
> You've never heard of hand controls in vehicles?
>
Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
to work the gas pump.

On 8/18/2016 10:58 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
>> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>
>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>> a wheelchair.
>>
>> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>> drive but not operate a gas pump.

> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy

It's certainly not hard to imagine how pumping gas would be
difficult for some members of the driving public. Some day
we all might appreciate a little help.

nancy

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:54:20 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>People in a Bangladesh sweatshop are kinda hard to tip from where we
>are.


guess what Bruce, those people in that sweat shop appreciate those
wages. That's why they go there...to get that money.

William

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:54:23 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-18 10:55 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:09:15 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>
>> Not really. There are modified vehicles but I can't see making
>> everyone get out and pump the gas themselves.
>
>I can see it if it is a self serve station and there is no one available
>to pump it for them.
>
>
> > It would, at the very
>> least, be bad p.r.for the gas station, at least I would hope so.
>
>
>Social media and a sympathetic press may try to put some pressure on
>them but look at it from the station owner's perspective. It is a major
>expense for them to have someone on hand to pump gas for the very very
>tiny percentage of drivers who might me too disabled to do it themselves.

Nearly all gas stations have convenience stores attached, it doesn't
take much time for a person to emerge from there, pump the gas, take
the money and allow the disabled person to go on their way. You are a
very harsh person, be careful you don't wind up in a wheelchair, you
know, one of your kyakking experiences gone wrong in the rapids, as I
doubt there is anybody who would be willing to help you!!!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:55:18 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-08-18 10:58 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>>
>>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>>> a wheelchair.
>>>
>>> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>>> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>
>> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy
>>
>
>It is not a matter of empathy. It is a matter of how badly disabled
>someone can be and still manage to drive a vehicle, even with special
>controls.

Just check into it, you will be surprised.

On 8/18/2016 11:56 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 11:07 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 8/18/2016 10:09 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
>>>> > wrote:
>>> There used to be six stations
>>>>> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
>>>>> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now
>>>>> there is
>>>>> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In
>>>>> the
>>>>> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>
>> You've never heard of hand controls in vehicles?
>>
> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
> to work the gas pump.
>
Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.

I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
is. Remember, you can't use your legs.

Jill

On 2016-08-18 12:09 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 10:58 AM, wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>>
>>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>>> a wheelchair.
>>>
>>> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>>> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>
>> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy
>
> It's certainly not hard to imagine how pumping gas would be
> difficult for some members of the driving public. Some day
> we all might appreciate a little help.
>
No doubt that it can be extremely confusing to some people. On our way
home last week I stopped in a small town to gas up for the long drive
home and made the mistake of pulling up behind a woman who turned out to
be incapable of understanding the process. She appeared to be able
bodied. I left and went to a station a half mile down the road where
there were no line-ups.

On 2016-08-18 12:31 PM, William wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:54:20 +1000, Bruce >
> wrote:
>
>> People in a Bangladesh sweatshop are kinda hard to tip from where we
>> are.
>
>
> guess what Bruce, those people in that sweat shop appreciate those
> wages. That's why they go there...to get that money.
>
>
Maybe if some of us are lucky we will have enough desperate people here
to work for such low wages. Then we might win the race to the bottom.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 11:43:38 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2016-08-18 9:41 AM, wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:08:55 -0400, Dave Smith
> >>> > wrote:
> >> There used to be six stations
> >>>> in my little hamlet, three of them right "downtown" (two stores, one
> >>>> bank, one greasy spoon, one bakery and three gas stations. Now there is
> >>>> only one, and it 2 miles from "downtown", at a busy intersection. In the
> >>>> next hamlet there used to be 6, now down to one.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
> >>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
> >>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
> >>> gone now, all self service.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
> >> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
> >
> > The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
> > a wheelchair.
>
> Really? It would have to be a pretty short person in a very short
> wheelchair. I am 6 feet tall and I usually don't even have to raise my
> hands much to reach them.

Hadn't thought seriously about it before. I recently observed
a sign on the gas pump that said to call the cashier for
assistance if one is handicapped and can't reach everything
on the pump. If I think of it, next time I fill up I'll glance
around while I'm still sitting in my car (which is higher than
a wheelchair) and extrapolate what it might be like to be a few
inches lower down.

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton

On 2016-08-18 12:47 PM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:54:23 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-18 10:55 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:09:15 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are none here, though I know if you are disabled and can't do it
>>>>> there are a few who will serve you, by arrangement so to speak. At
>>>>> first there was at least one pump which said 'service' but they've
>>>>> gone now, all self service.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>
>>> Not really. There are modified vehicles but I can't see making
>>> everyone get out and pump the gas themselves.
>>
>> I can see it if it is a self serve station and there is no one available
>> to pump it for them.
>>
>>
>>> It would, at the very
>>> least, be bad p.r.for the gas station, at least I would hope so.
>>
>>
>> Social media and a sympathetic press may try to put some pressure on
>> them but look at it from the station owner's perspective. It is a major
>> expense for them to have someone on hand to pump gas for the very very
>> tiny percentage of drivers who might me too disabled to do it themselves.
>
> Nearly all gas stations have convenience stores attached, it doesn't
> take much time for a person to emerge from there, pump the gas, take
> the money and allow the disabled person to go on their way.



While they are out there pumping gas there is no one there to watch the
store. That means there is no one there to take money from the other
customers and presents a serious security problem.
>
> You are a
> very harsh person, be careful you don't wind up in a wheelchair, you
> know, one of your kyakking experiences gone wrong in the rapids, as I
> doubt there is anybody who would be willing to help you!!!

Aren't you afraid of a similar problem when you fall of the high horse
of yours? I merely said that it is difficult to understand how someone
can be so disabled that they cannot pump their own gas and still be able
to drive. Both require a certain degree of motor skills. There are not
that many people who are limited to vehicle with hand controls.

It simply isn't practical for the owners to have to have extra staff on
hand for the very small percentage of drivers who are too disabled to
pump their own gas. However, there are still a few stations around that
offer full service. Heaven forbid those people be expected to go to a
full service station.

On 2016-08-18 12:48 PM, wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:55:18 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-18 10:58 AM, wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:28:10 -0400, Nancy Young
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/18/2016 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 10:07:52 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It is difficult to understand how someone can be disabled enough to be
>>>>>> unable to pump gas but still be able to drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> The controls on the gas pump might be too high to reach from
>>>>> a wheelchair.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention special controls that might enable someone to
>>>> drive but not operate a gas pump.
>>>>
>>>> nancy
>>>
>>> You're looking for Dave to have some empathy
>>>
>>
>> It is not a matter of empathy. It is a matter of how badly disabled
>> someone can be and still manage to drive a vehicle, even with special
>> controls.
>
> Just check into it, you will be surprised.
>


Trust me, I have a lot more experience with special needs vehicles than
you have.

On 2016-08-18 1:03 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> Of course I have. If they can work the hand controls they should be able
>> to work the gas pump.
>>
> Hand controls are for paraplegics. You expect them to hop into their
> wheelchair and get out and pump gas? It's not the ability to "work" the
> gas pump. It's that it is out of their reach.
>
> I dare you to try it. Next time you go to pump gas, take a low-slung
> chair along with you. Sit down next to the pump and and see how easy it
> is. Remember, you can't use your legs.
>
Being in a wheel chair would be bad enough, so no thanks. However,
there are still some full service stations around. It would be better
for all involved for those people to go to full service stations than to
expect every convenience store/gas bar to have someone on hand. Let's
not forget the number of robberies that happen at those places.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2016-08-17 9:41 AM, Gary wrote:
> > William wrote:
>
> > You're going out for a nice dinner. Don't be such a Scrooge. Leave a tip
> > and quit bitching about it or just stay home and cook. I would rather
> > serve myself with what I prefer and the amounts than someone deciding
> > for me.
>
> The next time you get your gas tank filled up, give the attendant a 15%
> tip. If it is self serve, give the cashier the same.

I do that all the time, Dave. Don't you?

" wrote:
>
> Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> here

LOL!

sf wrote:
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:39:38 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> > I can't remember the last time I had full service here. All out gas
> > stations are self serve. The cashiers get minimum wage just like
> > servers. This thread has been about tipping at buffets... self service
> > restaurants.
>
> Oh? Do you clear your own table too?

Dave polices the handicap parking spaces and reports violators.
He picks up trash but then dumps it in restaurant parking lots.
He's a proven tipping tightwad at restaurants.

I'm starting to understand now why he was retired early. They just
wanted to get rid of him.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-17 9:25 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
> >> On 2016-08-17 7:51 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> >>> On 8/17/2016 1:16 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>> On 2016-08-17 9:41 AM, Gary wrote:
> >>>>> William wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You're going out for a nice dinner. Don't be such a Scrooge.
> >>>>> Leave a tip and quit bitching about it or just stay home and
> >>>>> cook. I would rather serve myself with what I prefer and the
> >>>>> amounts than someone deciding for me.
> >>>>
> >>>> The next time you get your gas tank filled up, give the
> >>>> attendant a 15% tip. If it is self serve, give the cashier the
> >>>> same. They are both making minimum wage. If you can afford to
> >>>> go out in your car and enjoy the luxury of getting gas you can
> >>>> afford to tip.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I'll leave a 20% or more tip because I have great empathy for
> >>> those people that serve us food. My dad is a great dad but it's
> >>> embarrassing for me when he pays and leaves a tip at restaurants.
> >>> Sometimes I'll leave a few bucks supplementary tip.
> >> Why are you concerned only with minimum wage servers and not all
> >> the other people working for minimum wage?
> >
> > I'll always tip when there's a system for tipping established. I'm
> > mot going to tip the guy at Taco Bell because that's not usual or
> > customary - poor *******!
> >
>
>
> Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places people
> who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it expected that
> they will get tips. Around here it is only people serving liquor
> directly to customers who get a lower minimum. Waiters in non licensed
> restaurants get the same minimum wage as the store clerks, gas station
> attendants, and some factory jobs.

It's the cost of doing things. Tipping is pretty much a social obligation and I'm all about fulfilling social obligations. Like the cost of doing business, you have to eat it and say "num num" with a big grin on your face. Like a lot of social obligations, there's not much logic to it sometimes. I can assure that the staff in the kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.

William wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:58:02 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >On 2016-08-17 9:25 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 2016-08-17 7:51 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> >>>> On 8/17/2016 1:16 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>> On 2016-08-17 9:41 AM, Gary wrote:
> >>>>>> William wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> You're going out for a nice dinner. Don't be such a Scrooge.
> >>>>>> Leave a tip and quit bitching about it or just stay home and
> >>>>>> cook. I would rather serve myself with what I prefer and the
> >>>>>> amounts than someone deciding for me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The next time you get your gas tank filled up, give the
> >>>>> attendant a 15% tip. If it is self serve, give the cashier the
> >>>>> same. They are both making minimum wage. If you can afford to
> >>>>> go out in your car and enjoy the luxury of getting gas you can
> >>>>> afford to tip.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll leave a 20% or more tip because I have great empathy for
> >>>> those people that serve us food. My dad is a great dad but it's
> >>>> embarrassing for me when he pays and leaves a tip at restaurants.
> >>>> Sometimes I'll leave a few bucks supplementary tip.
> >>> Why are you concerned only with minimum wage servers and not all
> >>> the other people working for minimum wage?
> >>
> >> I'll always tip when there's a system for tipping established. I'm
> >> mot going to tip the guy at Taco Bell because that's not usual or
> >> customary - poor *******!
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places people
> >who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it expected that
> >they will get tips. Around here it is only people serving liquor
> >directly to customers who get a lower minimum. Waiters in non licensed
> >restaurants get the same minimum wage as the store clerks, gas station
> >attendants, and some factory jobs.
>
> When I get personal service from someone who waits on me at a
> restaurant, I feel obligated to pay them a 15% tip. They are waiting
> tables to earn a living and they know what to expect for services
> rendered.
>
> I do not care what the minimum wage is. That has nothing to do with my
> selection of services to purchase in the market place. If I go into a
> self serve restaurant I am expecting to serve myself. If I go to a
> full service restaurant I expect to be waited on. If I do not get
> service, I will not pay for anything and walk out.
>
> Nobody seems to know what the difference is between full service
> restaurants and partial self service restaurants. Is there a
> difference in the amount of service rendered when a server simply
> removes dirty plates? I think so. Is this not what is called "busing"?
> I feel there should be a generally accepted "percentage" of tipping
> for this sort of "restricted" service. Say 5% versus 15%. Most
> everyone reading this group seems to indicate if a server merely
> smiles in the direction of your table, they deserve a full tip. I say
> that is unfair to the hard working people who do actually wait on the
> patrons at the table.
>
> William

Face it, William. You're just a cheapskate like Dave. Save all your tip
money and cook at home....problem solved.

Sf, I m in Iowa...much different from Cali....

N.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 9:31:43 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:32:34 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
> > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > here and I'm certainly not going to give them a 100% tip.
>
> Feedbag type buffets seem to be typical of those who complain about
> leaving a tip.
>
>
I'm not complaining about leaving a tip just commenting on the
'need' or 'deservedness' of a 50 - 100% tip because someone removed
a plate or two, or even the possibility of refilling a glass.

Paying $10 for a buffet meal and then slapping down a $10 bill
for a 'tip' doesn't make someone worthy of praise and admiration.

As far as 'feedbag type buffets' well, hold onto your garters, ALL
buffets are feedbag type establishments if you want to make a statement.
You think some buffets are for those who eat like a bird and
others for those who feed like they are at a trough? Once again
ALL buffets, yes every one of them, are feedbag establishments.

Sometimes Babs, I think you make statements just to see if you
can outdo Julie on the ridiculousness.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> " wrote:
> >
> > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > here
>
> LOL!
>
>
That turned over your tickle box?

In article >,
says...
>
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >
> > " wrote:
> > >
> > > Lunch buffets around here are in the $5 - $10 range around
> > > here
> >
> > LOL!
> >
> >
> That turned over your tickle box?

What do you get for $5? Some deep-fried roadside tumbleweed and a glass
of chlorinated water?

On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:

>> Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places
>> people who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it
>> expected that they will get tips. Around here it is only people
>> serving liquor directly to customers who get a lower minimum.
>> Waiters in non licensed restaurants get the same minimum wage as
>> the store clerks, gas station attendants, and some factory jobs.
>
> It's the cost of doing things. Tipping is pretty much a social
> obligation and I'm all about fulfilling social obligations.


Paying decent wages should be a social obligation. Tipping is an
obsolete form of remuneration for menial workers. They should be paid a
decent wage by the restaurant and should not have to rely on the
generosity of the customers. If they want to get bonuses, have
employers pay them a base rate and then give them a percentage of their
sales.


>Like the
> cost of doing business, you have to eat it and say "num num" with a
> big grin on your face. Like a lot of social obligations, there's not
> much logic to it sometimes.

That lack of logic is exactly what the problem is.

> I can assure that the staff in the
> kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel
> slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.

Yep. Most of them are working for low wages too. They expect to get a
piece if the action. Thanks to the less than logical system we have,
the waiter is the one who gets the tips and is expected to pay income
tax on it, but the kitchen staff, not being in a position to be tipped
directly, aren't expected to pay taxes.

I have eating in restaurants in countries where there is no tipping
culture, and service is good. You just don't get to make your server
sing and dance for the tips.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-18 3:55 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> >> Well, I still don't understand it. I realize that in some places
> >> people who wait on tables get a lower minimum wage because it
> >> expected that they will get tips. Around here it is only people
> >> serving liquor directly to customers who get a lower minimum.
> >> Waiters in non licensed restaurants get the same minimum wage as
> >> the store clerks, gas station attendants, and some factory jobs.
> >
> > It's the cost of doing things. Tipping is pretty much a social
> > obligation and I'm all about fulfilling social obligations.
>
>
> Paying decent wages should be a social obligation. Tipping is an
> obsolete form of remuneration for menial workers. They should be paid a
> decent wage by the restaurant and should not have to rely on the
> generosity of the customers. If they want to get bonuses, have
> employers pay them a base rate and then give them a percentage of their
> sales.
>
>
> >Like the
> > cost of doing business, you have to eat it and say "num num" with a
> > big grin on your face. Like a lot of social obligations, there's not
> > much logic to it sometimes.
>
> That lack of logic is exactly what the problem is.
>
> > I can assure that the staff in the
> > kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel
> > slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.
>
> Yep. Most of them are working for low wages too. They expect to get a
> piece if the action. Thanks to the less than logical system we have,
> the waiter is the one who gets the tips and is expected to pay income
> tax on it, but the kitchen staff, not being in a position to be tipped
> directly, aren't expected to pay taxes.
>
> I have eating in restaurants in countries where there is no tipping
> culture, and service is good. You just don't get to make your server
> sing and dance for the tips.

Well OK, I agree with you. Luckily, you came to the right guy as I do have the power to change things merely by wishing it. I will now count to three and it will be so. One... two... three... *snap* It is now so... Live long and prosper!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:52:59 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Paying decent wages should be a social obligation. Tipping is an
>obsolete form of remuneration for menial workers. They should be paid a
>decent wage by the restaurant and should not have to rely on the
>generosity of the customers. If they want to get bonuses, have
>employers pay them a base rate and then give them a percentage of their
>sales.
>
>
>>Like the
>> cost of doing business, you have to eat it and say "num num" with a
>> big grin on your face. Like a lot of social obligations, there's not
>> much logic to it sometimes.
>
>That lack of logic is exactly what the problem is.
>
> > I can assure that the staff in the
>> kitchen are aware of what's going on in the dining room and they feel
>> slighted when they don't get a piece of the action.
>
>Yep. Most of them are working for low wages too. They expect to get a
>piece if the action. Thanks to the less than logical system we have,
>the waiter is the one who gets the tips and is expected to pay income
>tax on it, but the kitchen staff, not being in a position to be tipped
>directly, aren't expected to pay taxes.
>
>I have eating in restaurants in countries where there is no tipping
>culture, and service is good. You just don't get to make your server
>sing and dance for the tips.

All of the above sums the situation up nicely as far as I am
concerned.