I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
http://www.castlerestaurant.com/

We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for
it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table
was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.

Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers
any more.

I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.

We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..

My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!

It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

On 9/20/2015 9:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
> be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for
> it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table
> was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>
> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
> seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
> butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers
> any more.
>
> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
> The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>
> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>
> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

There used to be an Armenian restaurant in Pasadena, CA, called
Kabakian's. It was run by a couple of elderly brothers. They would
insist on seating the women, and on feeding them the first forkful of
food (which I thought was a little creepy). It was byob, and the
brothers would personally uncork your wine. It was all very old school
and formal; the food was excellent, as well. The only problem was that
it was very noisy, but it was otherwise a very nice experience.

On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>

>>
>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
> What if a lady is paying?
>

I'd pass her the check.

Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.

On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>
>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>
>>
>> I'd pass her the check.
>>
>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
>
> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>
>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>
> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
> in 2015.
>

The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
> be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for it.
> No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table was
> ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>
> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to seat
> my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread, butter on
> the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers any more.
>
> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list. The
> game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>
> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>
> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

Wow! A place like that would put me right off. I haven't gotten a menu in
years with no prices. I would just order soup or salad, probably not eat it
and get out out of there as quickly as I could. And then never go back!

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>
>> What if a lady is paying?
>>
>
> I'd pass her the check.
>
> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.

I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>
>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>
>>
>>I'd pass her the check.
>>
>>Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
>
> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>
>>OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>>order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
>>problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>
> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
> in 2015.

Me too.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have
>>>>>> prices.
>>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>>>
>>>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd pass her the check.
>>>>
>>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
>>>
>>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>>>
>>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>>>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
>>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
>>> in 2015.
>>>
>>
>>The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
>>family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
>>or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take many
> female friends there either

For sure! I can't remember what state we were in when I last saw a menu
with no prices. We were making a cross country move and Angela was just a
baby. I do remember that it was a steak house and I do remember my husband
complaining that I'd gotten a faulty menu. Our waitress was young and said
that she couldn't understand why some of the menus had no prices. She got
me one that did. I ordered a drink and a baked potato. Picked at it, left
then stopped at the store for something else to eat on the way back to our
hotel or motel. Menu aside, it wasn't the kind of place I like anyway. Big
pieces of meat and high prices.

On 20/09/2015 9:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>>
>> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining
>> can be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect
>> for it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the
>> table was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>>
>> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
>> seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
>> butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see
>> chargers any more.
>>
>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>
>> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
>> The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>>
>> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a
>> bit of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>>
>> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.
>
> Wow! A place like that would put me right off. I haven't gotten a menu
> in years with no prices. I would just order soup or salad, probably not
> eat it and get out out of there as quickly as I could. And then never
> go back!

I've refrained from commenting in the past but really, what a dimwit you
are!
Graham

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 10:20:28 PM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
> uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!
>
>
That's why you're not invited out to eat in public. You
don't know how to behave or not act like a jerk.

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 10:20:28 PM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> > I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
> > uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!
> >
> >
> That's why you're not invited out to eat in public. You
> don't know how to behave or not act like a jerk.

She was probably afraid her husband would expect sex after a meal like
that.

If the man is the host and the woman is his guest, why would she want
to know how much things cost? When I give someone a gift, I always
take the price tag off.

If the woman is hosting, I would hope she would get the menu with the
prices and her male guest not.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:17:01 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
>I was scratching my head wondering about "elegant, fine dining" when I
>saw French fries and onion rings on the appetizer menu. But then I
>saw escargot.. ;-)
>
>The whole lunch menu is kinda... odd. Shrimp and mussels are oysters,
>squid is clams (they should just have a "Seafood" category). And
>there's two pizzas - plain cheese or cheese and the "Topping du jour".
>And while there are some sandwich wraps, I don't see any kaiser rolls!
>
>Anyway - I digress :-) The dinner menu looks very good and I'm sure
>the food, service, and ambiance were great!
>
>-sw
I think the second menu is there for diners that could not appreciate
the first menu.
Janet US

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
>We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
>be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for
>it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table
>was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>
>Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
>seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
>butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers
>any more.
>
>I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
>We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
>The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>
>My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
>of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>
>It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

It sounds wonderful, Ed. What did you order?
Janet US

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 00:34:04 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:50:29 -0600, Janet B wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:17:01 -0500, Sqwertz >

snip
>>>
>> I think the second menu is there for diners that could not appreciate
>> the first menu.
>
>That looks like the lunch menu. I clicked on it first thinking the
>second menu listed would be the dinner menu.
>
>It's good that they have a lunch-priced menu to attract the weekday
>lunch-goers who are not looking for fine dining during the workday.
>Fine dining establishments aren't often open for lunch, and if they
>are, this is what they need to do.
>
>-sw

good point. I didn't think of that.
Janet US

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
> be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for it.
> No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table was
> ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>
> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to seat
> my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread, butter on
> the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers any more.
>
> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list. The
> game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>
> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>
> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

Sounds wonderful.

Cheri

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>>
>>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd pass her the check.
>>>
>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
>>
>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>>
>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>>
>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
>> in 2015.
>>
>
> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the family.
> My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65 or so but I
> don't know if there are other family members involved.

And your wife has been around for a long time too, so the restaurant and you
must be doing it right. :-)

Cheri

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 3:36:20 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>
> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining can
> be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect for
> it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the table
> was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>
> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
> seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
> butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see chargers
> any more.
>
> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>
> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
> The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>
> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>
> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me over all.

On 9/20/2015 11:20 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>
>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>
>>
>> I'd pass her the check.
>>
>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as
>> sexist. OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to
>> enjoy and order what they want. I know the price range and what to
>> expect. If a problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>
> I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
> uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!

Of course you could ask for a menu with prices or look at the menu your
husband has. If you have guests you may not want them to see prices,
just as you would giving a wedding reception.

On 9/20/2015 11:21 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>>>
>>>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd pass her the check.
>>>>
>>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
>>>
>>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>>>
>>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>>>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
>>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
>>> in 2015.
>>>
>>
>> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
>> family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
>> or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take many
> female friends there either
>

Why? Is it important they know how much you are paying? If I was to
return with guests I'm taking to dinner, I'd want everyone else to have
no prices. Order and enjoy, don't worry about the cost, that is my job.

On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 3:10:37 AM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/20/2015 11:21 PM, Bruce wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
> >>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What if a lady is paying?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd pass her the check.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as sexist.
> >>>
> >>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
> >>>
> >>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
> >>>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If a
> >>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
> >>> in 2015.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
> >> family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
> >> or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
> >
> > Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take many
> > female friends there either
> >
>
> Why? Is it important they know how much you are paying? If I was to
> return with guests I'm taking to dinner, I'd want everyone else to have
> no prices. Order and enjoy, don't worry about the cost, that is my job.


This is what I'm thinking. You are taking your guests out so that they
can enjoy themselves. You don't want them picking the second cheapest
item on the menu, just because they don't want to be a burden on you.
You want them to order whatever they would enjoy eating.

On 9/21/2015 12:54 AM, Janet B wrote:

>>
>> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
>> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>>
>> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.
>
> It sounds wonderful, Ed. What did you order?
> Janet US
>

Veal chop. Nicely done, very tender.

On 9/21/2015 12:57 AM, Bruce wrote:

>> If the man is the host and the woman is his guest, why would she want
>> to know how much things cost? When I give someone a gift, I always
>> take the price tag off.
>>
>> If the woman is hosting, I would hope she would get the menu with the
>> prices and her male guest not.
>
> It's pretty clear that this restaurant always gives the menu with
> prices to the man. They're not going to ask the party who's hosting.
>

If a woman is hosting, she probably has the balls to say so. Anyone
hosting would take the lead when being greeted.

On 9/21/2015 6:50 AM, Bruce wrote:

>>> Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take many
>>> female friends there either
>>>
>>
>> Why? Is it important they know how much you are paying? If I was to
>> return with guests I'm taking to dinner, I'd want everyone else to have
>> no prices. Order and enjoy, don't worry about the cost, that is my job.
>
> It's a bit strange to treat men and women different. Unless it's an
> 1800s theme restaurant where men are kings and women are their
> ornamental poodles.
>

My wife is far from an ornament, so was my friend that was with us.
Both enjoy being pampered a bit and neither cared about the prices. I
still open the car door for her too and she appreciates being
appreciated for what she is, an opinionated strong willed woman. No
man has ever been able to take advantage or treat her second class.

The last time I ate dinner where there were no prices, I was a guest of a member of a private
club for people in the media world, and the member's menu didn't have prices, either.

It was wonderful, and very elegant.

N.

On 2015-09-21 5:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/21/2015 12:54 AM, Janet B wrote:
>
>>>
>>> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a bit
>>> of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>>>
>>> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.
>>
>> It sounds wonderful, Ed. What did you order?
>> Janet US
>>
>
> Veal chop. Nicely done, very tender.


The first veal chop I ever had was in a very elegant restaurant. It was
delicious. I am still trying to find out how to do a crusted veal chop
like that.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 9/20/2015 11:21 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>>>On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not
> > > > > > > have prices. Very few places do that. Both ladies were
> > > > > > > given a long stem rose too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What if a lady is paying?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd pass her the check.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it
> > > > > as sexist.
> > > >
> > > > I guess it is and some people would be offended.
> > > >
> > > > > OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to
> > > > > enjoy and order what they want. I know the price range and
> > > > > what to expect. If a problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off.
> > > > At least in 2015.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
> > > family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is
> > > maybe 65 or so but I don't know if there are other family members
> > > involved.
> >
> > Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take
> > many female friends there either
> >
>
> Why? Is it important they know how much you are paying? If I was to
> return with guests I'm taking to dinner, I'd want everyone else to
> have no prices. Order and enjoy, don't worry about the cost, that is
> my job.

Ed, back in my dating years, I knew what the guy could afford and like
any reasonable person, would pick midline of the prices at the place he
took me to. I figured if he could pick the place, he could fit the
mid-line of it.

Exceptions, I had a guy I really liked who really liked me and we were
honest on it totally (we were both working through college and with no
parental support). We's sometimes go to a place where only one of the
dishes fit our spare cash. He'd pay for the dinner (a place with
really good spagetti, the rest was out of our price range) and I'd pay
for the beer later until I ran out too.

Probably would have been happy with him but I went Navy and he was
still finishing college.

Carol

--

Bruce wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 06:10:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > On 9/20/2015 11:21 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
> wrote:
> > >
> >>> On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski >
> wrote:
> > > > >
> >>>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >>>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not
> have prices. >>>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given
> a long stem rose too.
> > > > > > >
> >>>>>> What if a lady is paying?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >>>>> I'd pass her the check.
> > > > > >
> >>>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as
> sexist.
> > > > >
> >>>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
> > > > >
> >>>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to
> enjoy and >>>>> order what they want. I know the price range and
> what to expect. If a >>>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
> > > > >
> >>>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At
> least >>>> in 2015.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >>> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
> >>> family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is
> maybe 65 >>> or so but I don't know if there are other family members
> involved.
> > >
> >> Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take
> many >> female friends there either
> > >
> >
> > Why? Is it important they know how much you are paying? If I was
> > to return with guests I'm taking to dinner, I'd want everyone else
> > to have no prices. Order and enjoy, don't worry about the cost,
> > that is my job.
>
> It's a bit strange to treat men and women different. Unless it's an
> 1800s theme restaurant where men are kings and women are their
> ornamental poodles.

It is strange and not that common now but when I was growing up, it was
very common. It one of the generational gaps, where the younger set
are better than their parents.

Back when I was a child and Mom made per money 'flipping houses' (wasnt
called that then but same thing) 1967-1976 with us 3 kids, she played
the men on the game of 'poor little lady, left with 3 kids to make her
own way' to good financial effect. Was it fair? No. Did it keep us
fed? Yes. She was never mean about it, but she had to play the system.

It was actually pretty hilarous is restrospect as she'd play 'dumb
blonde' in a hardware store and get them to cut wood for free to her
measures (once they agreed she'd bring out the measure stuff and be
exact to the milimeter so she didnt have to even the cut more at home).

Carol

--

On 9/21/2015 2:03 AM, Cheri wrote:
>

>>
>> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
>> family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
>> or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
>
> And your wife has been around for a long time too, so the restaurant and
> you must be doing it right. :-)
>
> Cheri

She puts up with me and likes to be pampered at times. She has never
paid a check at a restaurant as long as I'm there, has never pumped gas,
never drives if we go out together. Old fashioned, but she's happy.

On 9/21/2015 7:23 PM, wrote:

>>>>> My wife is far from an ornament, so was my friend that was with us.
>>>>> Both enjoy being pampered a bit and neither cared about the prices. I
>>>>> still open the car door for her too and she appreciates being
>>>>> appreciated for what she is, an opinionated strong willed woman. No
>>>>> man has ever been able to take advantage or treat her second class.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't having a dig at you personally. But a restaurant is a public
>>>> venue.
>>>
>>> I thought there was something delightfully old fashioned and rather
>>> nice about it and heaven knows I am not a wilting violet type.
>>
>> Not every woman's into women's lib. Some people prefer the old ways.
>> The Amish, for instance.
>
> Trust me, I was/am completely into women's lib - even served in the
> 70s on the Task Force for Women, my main theme was getting equal
> pensions or at least equal pension contributions for women. Just
> today I really cut the dirt out from under one particular males feet
> after he said 'Well I think you are wrong' and knowing I wasn't I told
> him I didn't give a flying **** what he thought. Should have seen
> him, I don't think he even realised I knew words like that
>
> I think Ed knew the restaurant he was taking his wife and guest to,
> liked it and they all enjoyed it. I would not feel badly that I had a
> different menu but if I was taking a guest there, I would phone ahead
> and tell them I was the one who wanted to receive one with prices.
> That I want to be the one who receives the bill. No probs that I can
> see, I don't see it as a male/female issue but more payer and
> recipients.
>

I know Bruce was not hitting me personally, but he seems to think giving
a woman special attention somehow diminishes them.

I know a few strong women that are equal to any guy in what they can
accomplish. I've hired women and put them in jobs that were previously
"male" positions (and paid them the same). I've yet to meet a woman
that was insulted by a little attention. A little pampering. They will
also put a guy in his place if they even hint that they are treating
them as less than equal. I've seen them in action.

On 9/21/2015 7:14 PM, cshenk wrote:

>
> Exceptions, I had a guy I really liked who really liked me and we were
> honest on it totally (we were both working through college and with no
> parental support). We'd sometimes go to a place where only one of the
> dishes fit our spare cash. He'd pay for the dinner (a place with
> really good spaghetti, the rest was out of our price range) and I'd pay
> for the beer later until I ran out too.

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing says the guy has to pay all the time.
I have a friend that I'd meet for lunch every couple of weeks. More
than half the time she would pay.

There were years early on that going out to dinner was the cheap fast
food places too, but it was still a break from routine.

On 9/21/2015 7:50 PM, Bruce wrote:

>> I think Ed knew the restaurant he was taking his wife and guest to,
>> liked it and they all enjoyed it. I would not feel badly that I had a
>> different menu but if I was taking a guest there, I would phone ahead
>> and tell them I was the one who wanted to receive one with prices.
>> That I want to be the one who receives the bill. No probs that I can
>> see, I don't see it as a male/female issue but more payer and
>> recipients.
>
> The menu with prices goes to the man by default. A restaurant
> shouldn't interfere like that. Or have such a gender bias.
>

You are really hung up on that.

Yes, unless some arrangement is obvious, it does go to the man and 99%
of the time is would be correct. No reason that the female host of a
group cannot make it clear she is in charge, running the show, paying
the bill. Takes but five seconds when you are greeted coming in the door.

Old fashioned? Yes, but some of us still like to treat our wives and
friends. If I invite a couple to dine with us, I make it clear to the
staff that I'm the host and it has never been an issue. If any doubt on
my part, I slip my CC to the waiter before the check comes.

My simple rules for paying the check if there are two couples:
I pay it all
You pay it all
We split it down the middle regardless of who had the extra drink or
whatever.

Thinking about it now, there are three women that sometimes go to the
restaurants with us. In one case, I always pay, my choice. Another
will always pay a third, the other either lets me pay or pays it all
herself.

On 9/21/2015 9:38 PM, Bruce wrote:

>>>
>>
>> I know Bruce was not hitting me personally, but he seems to think giving
>> a woman special attention somehow diminishes them.
>
> What that restaurant does with their menus, isn't 'special attention'.
> It's patronizing.
>
Thanks. I'll tell my wife and Susan they've been patronized. They'll
get a laugh out of it.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/21/2015 2:03 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>> The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
>>> family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
>>> or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
>>
>> And your wife has been around for a long time too, so the restaurant and
>> you must be doing it right. :-)
>>
>> Cheri
>
> She puts up with me and likes to be pampered at times. She has never paid
> a check at a restaurant as long as I'm there, has never pumped gas, never
> drives if we go out together. Old fashioned, but she's happy.

And that's what counts!

Cheri

> wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 10:20:28 PM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
>> uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!
>>
>>
> That's why you're not invited out to eat in public. You
> don't know how to behave or not act like a jerk.

So you think it's okay to treat women like second class citizens?

> wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-7,
> wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 10:20:28 PM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >
>> > I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
>> > uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!
>> >
>> >
>> That's why you're not invited out to eat in public. You
>> don't know how to behave or not act like a jerk.
>
> She was probably afraid her husband would expect sex after a meal like
> that.
>
> If the man is the host and the woman is his guest, why would she want
> to know how much things cost? When I give someone a gift, I always
> take the price tag off.
>
> If the woman is hosting, I would hope she would get the menu with the
> prices and her male guest not.

My husband wouldn't like to eat at a place like that either.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/20/2015 11:20 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 9/20/2015 10:06 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>>
>>>> What if a lady is paying?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd pass her the check.
>>>
>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as
>>> sexist. OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to
>>> enjoy and order what they want. I know the price range and what to
>>> expect. If a problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>>
>> I could never enjoy any food from a place like that. I would feel so
>> uncomfortable, all I would want to do would be leave!
>
> Of course you could ask for a menu with prices or look at the menu your
> husband has. If you have guests you may not want them to see prices, just
> as you would giving a wedding reception.

The mere fact that they give women menus with no prices would put me off
enough to not want anything to do with them. I shouldn't have to look at my
husband's menu. Everyone should be the same. I would not want the rose
either.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:30:51 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:10:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 9/20/2015 10:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:30:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd pass her the check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does not bother me or my wife, but I'm sure some will see it as
>>>>>> sexist.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it is and some people would be offended.
>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH, if I'm the host, I want my guest, male or female, to enjoy and
>>>>>> order what they want. I know the price range and what to expect. If
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> problem with cost, we'd go for a pizza.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I do find it a bit off. At least
>>>>> in 2015.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The restaurant has been around about 60 years and is still in the
>>>>family. My guess is, change won't come easily. The owner is maybe 65
>>>>or so but I don't know if there are other family members involved.
>>>
>>> Personally, I wouldn't harrass them about it, but I wouldn't take many
>>> female friends there either
>>
>>For sure! I can't remember what state we were in when I last saw a menu
>>with no prices. We were making a cross country move and Angela was just a
>>baby. I do remember that it was a steak house and I do remember my
>>husband
>>complaining that I'd gotten a faulty menu. Our waitress was young and
>>said
>>that she couldn't understand why some of the menus had no prices.
>
> Funny that she didn't understand and probably also a sign that this
> practice is disappearing.

I'm sure she probably understood. She probably just said that because she
could tell that we were not pleased about it. And had we known of another
place to dine, we would have just left. But we were pretty much out in the
middle of nowhere and we had waited a very long time for a table.

"graham" > wrote in message
...
> On 20/09/2015 9:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>>> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>>>
>>> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining
>>> can be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect
>>> for it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the
>>> table was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>>>
>>> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
>>> seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
>>> butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see
>>> chargers any more.
>>>
>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>
>>> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
>>> The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>>>
>>> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a
>>> bit of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>>>
>>> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.
>>
>> Wow! A place like that would put me right off. I haven't gotten a menu
>> in years with no prices. I would just order soup or salad, probably not
>> eat it and get out out of there as quickly as I could. And then never
>> go back!
>
> I've refrained from commenting in the past but really, what a dimwit you
> are!
> Graham

I see. So wanting equality for women is being a dimwit? Okay then.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:44:24 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>>On 20/09/2015 9:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>>>> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>>>>
>>>> We've not been there for years and I sort of forgot how nice dining
>>>> can be. We went not just to eat, but to socialize and it was perfect
>>>> for it. No rushing, not a lot of noise. I made a reservation and the
>>>> table was ready for us when we arrived a few minutes early.
>>>>
>>>> Little things make a difference. The hostess pulled the chair out to
>>>> seat my wife, the table had some toasted bread and a cheese spread,
>>>> butter on the bread plates and charger plates. Hardly ever see
>>>> chargers any more.
>>>>
>>>> I did not realize it until after, the ladies menu did not have prices.
>>>> Very few places do that. Both ladies were given a long stem rose too.
>>>>
>>>> We had appetizers and ordered a bottle of wine from an extensive list.
>>>> The game special was antelope, but we did not order it..
>>>>
>>>> My friend ordered Steak Diane and it is prepared tableside. Yeah, a
>>>> bit of a show, but nice to see. Good too. So were the desserts!
>>>>
>>>> It was a nice leisurely 2 1/2 hours.
>>>
>>> Wow! A place like that would put me right off. I haven't gotten a menu
>>> in years with no prices. I would just order soup or salad, probably not
>>> eat it and get out out of there as quickly as I could. And then never
>>> go back!
>>
>>I've refrained from commenting in the past but really, what a dimwit you
>>are!
>
> Maybe she lives in 2015, whereas you're stuck somewhere in the past.

I would say so. I like diners. But if I went into one and saw that they
were putting all of the black people in one area and not letting them sit at
the counter, I wouldn't like that either. Old timey is one thing. Equality
is another.

I tend to order among the least expensive things on the menu to begin with
because those are the foods that I prefer. But I heard tales of restaurants
where females got menus with no prices when I was in high school. I don't
know of one female who liked this! They were afraid to order because what
if they accidentally ordered something expensive and their date couldn't pay
for it?

In the case of the steak house that we went to, we happened to be low on
funds. Plenty of money in the bank but not much in my wallet and I was
always the one who paid for meals and things during moves. That restaurant
took cash only. No debit cards (I think they were a fairly new thing back
then), no credit cards or checks. And they had insanely high prices! Most
likely because they *were* out in the middle of nowhere and could get away
with it. And for as much of a steak lover as my husband is, he didn't even
order a steak because we couldn't afford it. I can't remember what he did
order. Perhaps it was wings or something. Some sort of appetizer. He
couldn't wait to get out of there either. They had insanely slow service
and there was nothing pleasant about the place. The only part of that
dinner that I can really remember was the strained look on his face as he
tried to stop himself from shouting at our waitress about how we just wanted
to get the check! This after trying repeatedly to tell her and being
ignored again and again and again.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:50:29 -0600, Janet B wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:17:01 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:36:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> I took my wife and another woman to dinner tonight to The Castle
>>>> http://www.castlerestaurant.com/
>>>
>>>I was scratching my head wondering about "elegant, fine dining" when I
>>>saw French fries and onion rings on the appetizer menu. But then I
>>>saw escargot.. ;-)
>>>
>>>The whole lunch menu is kinda... odd. Shrimp and mussels are oysters,
>>>squid is clams (they should just have a "Seafood" category). And
>>>there's two pizzas - plain cheese or cheese and the "Topping du jour".
>>>And while there are some sandwich wraps, I don't see any kaiser rolls!
>>>
>>>Anyway - I digress :-) The dinner menu looks very good and I'm sure
>>>the food, service, and ambiance were great!
>>>
>> I think the second menu is there for diners that could not appreciate
>> the first menu.
>
> That looks like the lunch menu. I clicked on it first thinking the
> second menu listed would be the dinner menu.
>
> It's good that they have a lunch-priced menu to attract the weekday
> lunch-goers who are not looking for fine dining during the workday.
> Fine dining establishments aren't often open for lunch, and if they
> are, this is what they need to do.
>
> -sw

I can think of two Italian places that offer both fine dining and more
casual stuff. One is in PA and the other on Staten Island. In some cases,
the menus overlap but I think the prices are a bit less on the casual side,
at least for the one on Staten Island. And on the casual side, you don't
get a bread basket but you can get pizza by the slice. I was so amazed by
the causal side of the one in PA that it made me wonder what the fine dining
side was like! My husband dropped a fork on the floor and someone swiftly
and silently removed it and gave him a new one. They also had a person with
a crumber come and sweep the table between courses.