http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:

>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html

"I just feel like I've already built up an immunity to anything that
might be in my food," That's pretty funny


Personally, organic food costs me less. A lot less.

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:

>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html

I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
price, a bad combination.

That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
can be.

J.

On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>
>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>> price, a bad combination.
>>
>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>> can be.
>
> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>
When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.

MaryL

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
> > wrote:
>
>>On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>
>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>
>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>> can be.
>>>
>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>
>>When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>
> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.

I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.

On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-7, graham wrote:
> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html

Depends. People make the argument that organic produce is not higher
in nutrients. But often, there are lower pesticide residues -- which
is why I buy organic -- I do not want to turn my body into an organic
chem lab.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116891484181777282

"A shopper's guide issued last fall, based on U.S. government data, ranked pesticide levels in 43 conventionally grown fruits and vegetables. The guide, from the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit organization that raises concerns about pesticides, found that many were already low in residues, including broccoli, asparagus, avocados and onions.

"Among fruits and vegetables that were found to be higher in residues than other produce are peaches, apples, sweet bell peppers, strawberries and imported grapes. The effects of multiple pesticides on the body at once aren't known, says Richard Wiles, EWG's executive director."

On Tue, 26 May 2015 14:08:54 +1000, Bruce > wrote:

>On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:31:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>
>>>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>>>
>>>>When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>>>better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>>>exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>>>sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>>>it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>>>
>>> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
>>> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.
>>
>>I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
>>got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.
>
>That's an achievement.

That's a good way of putting it.

Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
bought spuds.

On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
> On Tue, 26 May 2015 14:08:54 +1000, Bruce > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:31:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>>>>
>>>>> When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>>>> better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>>>> exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>>>> sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>>>> it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
>>>> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.
>>>
>>> I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
>>> got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.
>>
>> That's an achievement.
>
> That's a good way of putting it.
>
> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
> bought spuds.
>

How so?

On Tue, 26 May 2015 09:16:51 +1000, Bruce > wrote:

>On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>
>>I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>price, a bad combination.
>>
>>That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>can be.
>
>And is it of poorer quality and higher price?

It depends. If it's poorer quality I plant something else next time.
Actually I haven't grown much stuff at home for a while having only a
small patio, you can't get a lot growing in pots.

As others have said tomatoes are easy and you can get a ton for little
expense, if you plant them in the ground - and pick the caterpillars
off fast enough! But I haven't tried growing any of the newer,
super-sweet varieties, or the "heirlooms" like they sell at TJ's.

Other stuff can cost a bit, but usually end up cheaper than
store-bought, except you get too many - zuchinni, bell peppers.
Cucumbers are fun, with those big fuzzy leaves. You can grow a few
beans and peas, radishes, carrots. Never tried potatoes or beets.
Horseradish is supposed to become an invasive weed if you plant it.
Not sure if ginger will grow here.

I'd like to try eggplant, either Chinese (long and skinny) or some
exotics that seem available.

I've grown a few ears of corn, never tried any seed crops, wheat or
sesame or even (edible) poppy seeds.

Then there's kumquats, blackberries, OMG those wild blackberries are
good right off the vine, can get five to ten pounds in a season just
off a couple of vines.

I've stolen plums off a neighbor's tree and he never missed them.

Had a great pomegranate tree when I was a kid, it got replaced with a
"decorative" one that we didn't realize only had flowers and no fruit,
boo.

--

Never put insecticides on any, have tried some insecticides on some
flowers and landscape from time to time but don't want them anywhere
near where I'm going to try to grow food. Tried some of the more
natural insecticides, but they didn't seem to work real well.

J.

On Tue, 26 May 2015 08:38:52 -0700, JRStern >
wrote:

> But I haven't tried growing any of the newer,
> super-sweet varieties, or the "heirlooms" like they sell at TJ's.

My son-in-law grows the heirlooms (zebras too) and they are delicious.

--

sf

On Tue, 26 May 2015 08:38:52 -0700, JRStern >
wrote:


>Actually I haven't grown much stuff at home for a while having only a
>small patio, you can't get a lot growing in pots.

I have a sizeable deck, but growing things in pots is a breeze - this
year I have:

Radishes
Green beans
Long beans
Tomatoes
Lettuce
Cucumbers
Sweet peppers
Hot peppers
Carrots
Strawberries
Various herbs and spices.

On 5/26/2015 1:29 AM, Travis McGee wrote:
> On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:


>>
>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>> bought spuds.
>>
>
> How so?

They are fresh for one thing. Potatoes are often stored for months.
The fresh have more moisture and better flavor.

I've never grown them, but I do buy from a couple of local farmers at
our farm market. Delicious.

On 2015-05-25, JRStern > wrote:

> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
> price, a bad combination.

That's strange. I generally find organic to be of superior flavor and is the
primary reason why I started paying the premium for organic. You must
have some really suck growers.

OTOH, it's no secret big ag is desperately trying to re-write the
rules for "organic". Hole Foods and WallyWorld (WW) are pioneers in
changing organic requirements. Yet, it's what ppl want. Our local
Safeway has fully dedicated 50% of it's "watered" produce section over
to organic.

nb

On Tue, 26 May 2015 01:29:20 -0400, Travis McGee >
wrote:

>On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 May 2015 14:08:54 +1000, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:31:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>>>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>>>>> better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>>>>> exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>>>>> sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>>>>> it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
>>>>> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.
>>>>
>>>> I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
>>>> got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.
>>>
>>> That's an achievement.
>>
>> That's a good way of putting it.
>>
>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>> bought spuds.
>>
>
>How so?

They quite simply taste better, also more delicate in texture.

On Wed, 27 May 2015 07:04:59 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:

>On Tue, 26 May 2015 01:29:20 -0400, Travis McGee >
>wrote:
>
>>On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 May 2015 14:08:54 +1000, Bruce > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:31:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>>>>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>>>>>> better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>>>>>> exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>>>>>> sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>>>>>> it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
>>>>>> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.
>>>>>
>>>>> I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
>>>>> got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.
>>>>
>>>> That's an achievement.
>>>
>>> That's a good way of putting it.
>>>
>>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>>> bought spuds.
>>>
>>
>>How so?
>
>They quite simply taste better, also more delicate in texture.

I should have added that steaming some fresh spuds - especially baby
potatoes - really illustrates this point the best. Even the skins are
delicate and delicious... all they need is some butter, salt and
pepper. Yum.

On 26/05/2015 19:55, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/26/2015 1:29 AM, Travis McGee wrote:
>> On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>>> bought spuds.
>>>
>>
>> How so?
>
> They are fresh for one thing. Potatoes are often stored for months. The
> fresh have more moisture and better flavor.
>
> I've never grown them, but I do buy from a couple of local farmers at
> our farm market. Delicious.

Yes I think that freshness counts for a lot with homegrown produce. A
bit like home baking, even if it isn't done all that well the freshness
makes it wonderful.

Tim w

On 26/05/2015 04:52, wrote:
> On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-7, graham wrote:
>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>
> Depends. People make the argument that organic produce is not higher
> in nutrients. But often, there are lower pesticide residues -- which
> is why I buy organic -- I do not want to turn my body into an organic
> chem lab.
>
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116891484181777282
>
> "A shopper's guide issued last fall, based on U.S. government data, ranked pesticide levels in 43 conventionally grown fruits and vegetables. The guide, from the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit organization that raises concerns about pesticides, found that many were already low in residues, including broccoli, asparagus, avocados and onions.
>
> "Among fruits and vegetables that were found to be higher in residues than other produce are peaches, apples, sweet bell peppers, strawberries and imported grapes. The effects of multiple pesticides on the body at once aren't known, says Richard Wiles, EWG's executive director."
>


Yes, there are a lot of good reasons to buy organic. To choose just one
(nutrient levels) and say that means organic isn't worth it is just
stupid poor quality journalism.

Reasons to buy organic might incclude a lot of environmental
considerations. There might be only 'safe' levels of chemicals left
onyour fruit but what commercial large scale farming practice does to
insects, wildlife, and the the soil could be desastrous. Likewise with
meats it isn't all about the end product. It's about knowing something
about how the animal is fed and raised.

Tim W

On Tue, 26 May 2015 22:39:06 +0100, Tim w > wrote:

>On 26/05/2015 19:55, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/26/2015 1:29 AM, Travis McGee wrote:
>>> On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>>>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>>>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>>>> bought spuds.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How so?
>>
>> They are fresh for one thing. Potatoes are often stored for months. The
>> fresh have more moisture and better flavor.
>>
>> I've never grown them, but I do buy from a couple of local farmers at
>> our farm market. Delicious.
>
>Yes I think that freshness counts for a lot with homegrown produce. A
>bit like home baking, even if it isn't done all that well the freshness
>makes it wonderful.

That's true. I've made some crappy bread in my day but it was still
delicious

On Tue, 26 May 2015 09:16:51 +1000, Bruce > wrote:

>On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>
>>I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>price, a bad combination.
>>
>>That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>can be.
>
>And is it of poorer quality and higher price?

Home grown is better quality primarilly because you get to harvest at
peak ripeness and your harvest spends no time in shipping, storage, or
on the produce stand, home grown is always freshest... but always
costs more to grow your own, how much more often depending on what's
grown, can be substantially more, in seeds, plants, supplys, tools,
pots, soil amendments, water, hoses, fencing, cages, support
materials, and most home gardeners own a tiller that requires fuel and
maintenence, etc., plus a tremendous amount of labor and time. A home
vegetable garden is primarilly a hobby, and by definition a hobby
always costs more than any profit that can possibly be realized,
people have hobbies for personal enjoyment, not to make/save money. A
good amount of home grown crops also fail for various reasons;
disease, insects, rodents, birds, and especially weather of which we
have no control. That said I've been home gardening all my life,
since I could walk... and I can say without any doubt whatsoever that
there is no such thing as organic food, it's a big scam... the entire
planet is polluted, so long as there's preciptation and gravity
organic gardening/animal raising is impossible, other than in a very
controlled clean room type laboratory setting. If the produce labeled
organic that you buy has no worm holes, contains no worms/insects, has
no rodent nibbles, and is otherwise picture perfect, it is *NOT*
ORGANIC, no way, no how. I use no chemicals, the best I can do is
eliminate some rodent and some bird nibbles by maintaining a herd of
feral barn cats, another expensive proposition. Anyone who is paying
double+ prices for produce, meats, and dairy labeled "organic"
possesses far more dollars than brain cells. There is no such thing
as organic food, not on this planet... in fact foods labeled organic
are far less organic than foods not so labeled. Get your dictionary
and look up "scam".

On Tue, 26 May 2015 01:29:20 -0400, Travis McGee >
wrote:

>On 5/26/2015 1:24 AM, wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 May 2015 14:08:54 +1000, Bruce > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:31:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 18:30:16 -0500, MaryL
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/2015 6:16 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:02:37 -0700, JRStern >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:33:00 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...19-column.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find it generally of poorer quality to go along with the higher
>>>>>>>> price, a bad combination.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said, when I grow stuff myself it generally is as "organic" as it
>>>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And is it of poorer quality and higher price?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I grew my own food, some of it actually was higher price but *much*
>>>>>> better quality. For examples, tomatoes did not have the "cardboard"
>>>>>> exterior that commercially-grown tomatoes often have, and they were so
>>>>>> sweet that they almost tasted like they had sugar on them. Of course,
>>>>>> it was often difficult to beat the birds to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think tomatoes are one of the vegetables where the quality
>>>>> difference between home grown and supermarket is the biggest.
>>>>
>>>> I used to think that. I quite growing them years ago after the ones that I
>>>> got from my own garden were no better than those at the store.
>>>
>>> That's an achievement.
>>
>> That's a good way of putting it.
>>
>> Home grown veggies should be better than those grown commercially,
>> it's the reason I grow potatoes, even though they're so cheap. Fresh
>> out of the garden, they are something else entirely compared to shop
>> bought spuds.
>>
>
>How so?

Freshly harvested are very earthy, those at market are storage
potatoes, no real potato flavor, immediately after harvest their
starches turn to sugar, sweetish spuds are awful, and when out of the
ground they are exposed to light and try to sprout, they develop a
green tinge and become bitter. Unless you've eaten a just harvested
potato you've no idea how a potato is suppposed taste.

On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:58:15 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 May 2015 08:38:52 -0700, JRStern >
>wrote:
>
>
>>Actually I haven't grown much stuff at home for a while having only a
>>small patio, you can't get a lot growing in pots.
>
>I have a sizeable deck, but growing things in pots is a breeze - this
>year I have:
>
>Radishes
>Green beans
>Long beans
>Tomatoes
>Lettuce
>Cucumbers
>Sweet peppers
>Hot peppers
>Carrots
>Strawberries
>Various herbs and spices.

The majority of the world's spices grow in the tropics, where do you
live that you grow spices, which spices? I don't consider hot
capsicums a spice, they are a fruit, bay leaves are an herb. Are you
growing mustard seed, the least expensive spice, not really worth
growing except for fun, dill/celery/fennel/caraway seed the same.