On 12/16/2014 2:25 PM, notbob wrote:

> Damsel was instrumental in making me aware of this awful ailment, of
> which I now feel my late brother suffered from. She was admittedly
> afflicted with it and after a long online relationship with her, she
> said things to/about me I could no longer tolerate, ailment be damned.
> I've since learned a lot about polar disease and one of the things
> I've learned is how widespread it has become. Many folks have no clue
> they may be afflicted. So sad.

I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails. After she passed,
it was sad all of the pain meds she was on. We had to clean out her
house and she was on tramadol, percoset, morphine and valium in addition
to her chemo meds and anti-nausea meds. Other than the chemo meds, if
she was taking all of those at the same time, it's no wonder she fell
down the stairs, ending up rupturing her spleen which led to her death.
She seemed to be on a very serious "low" just before her accident.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

Cheryl wrote:
>
>I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.

Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.

>After she passed,
>it was said all of the pain meds she was on. We had to clean out her
>house and she was on tramadol, percoset, morphine and valium in addition
>to her chemo meds and anti-nausea meds. Other than the chemo meds, if
>she was taking all of those at the same time, it's no wonder she fell
>down the stairs, ending up rupturing her spleen which led to her death.
>She seemed to be on a very serious "low" just before her accident.

With those meds it was a serious addiction problem... look into who
prescribed those meds... more likely she was obtaining them illegally
on the street market, no legit MD would write for all those. It's sad
if no one intervened, she needed help. I lost a best friend
sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly. I well
understand how sometimes no one can help.

On 12/21/2014 3:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>> diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>> and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>> and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>> at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.
>
> Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.


Bi-polar is the "PC" term now used for Manic Depressive. It's the same
ailment.


--
From somewhere very deep in the heart of Texas

On 12/21/2014 4:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> With those meds it was a serious addiction problem... look into who
> prescribed those meds... more likely she was obtaining them illegally
> on the street market, no legit MD would write for all those.

I was surprised an MD would prescribe all of those, too, but each pill
bottle had the prescribing doctor as her oncologist. She had a bunch of
them just refilled and still in the pharmacy bags when we were cleaning
out her house. I know she was in terrible pain, but the number of pain
killers seemed excessive to me.

It's sad
> if no one intervened, she needed help.

She was under the care of multiple doctors. We knew about her pain, and
her chemo sickness but the manic or bi-polar was undiagnosed. I know
there was some sort of depression going on but she'd said many times
she'd just had enough of the chemo, the doctors, the pain, everything. I
don't think she OD'd or anything, I just think she might have possibly
been on too many meds and lost her balance. I know I've had several
falls due to a drop foot and I practically had to learn all over again
how to walk. I was lucky with my falls that I didn't have the serious
damage that she did.

I lost a best friend
> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly. I well
> understand how sometimes no one can help.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, especially under those conditions.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:32:28 -0500, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 12/21/2014 4:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> With those meds it was a serious addiction problem... look into who
>> prescribed those meds... more likely she was obtaining them illegally
>> on the street market, no legit MD would write for all those.
>
>I was surprised an MD would prescribe all of those, too, but each pill
>bottle had the prescribing doctor as her oncologist. She had a bunch of
>them just refilled and still in the pharmacy bags when we were cleaning
>out her house. I know she was in terrible pain, but the number of pain
>killers seemed excessive to me.
>
>It's sad
>> if no one intervened, she needed help.
>
>She was under the care of multiple doctors. We knew about her pain, and
>her chemo sickness but the manic or bi-polar was undiagnosed. I know
>there was some sort of depression going on but she'd said many times
>she'd just had enough of the chemo, the doctors, the pain, everything. I
>don't think she OD'd or anything, I just think she might have possibly
>been on too many meds and lost her balance. I know I've had several
>falls due to a drop foot and I practically had to learn all over again
>how to walk. I was lucky with my falls that I didn't have the serious
>damage that she did.
>
>I lost a best friend
>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly. I well
>> understand how sometimes no one can help.
>
>I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, especially under those conditions.

Thank you. Was some 15 years ago but I often feel a great loss.
As one ages it's difficult to find new friends. I was hoping to have
my SIL in my life but it was not meant to be. Sometimes I feel angry
that she took her life, she over dosed.

On 2014-12-21 4:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>> diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>> and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>> and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>> at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.
>
> Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.

Subtle difference there Sheldon. Twenty years ago it was manic
depression, but these days the same disorder is called bi-polar. Perhaps
you are thinking clinical depression. My oldest brother is clinically
depressed. A couple times he has latched onto the bi-polar thing but he
isn't bi-polar. He is just plain depressed. A bi-polar aka manic
depressed person can be down in the dumps for a while and then off on
some manic spree for a while. A clinically depressed like my brother is
usually just depressed most of the time. Medication seems to only remove
that dark dark cloud of depression. The highest he ever gets is more
like normal.

On 2014-12-21 5:56 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Thank you. Was some 15 years ago but I often feel a great loss.
> As one ages it's difficult to find new friends. I was hoping to have
> my SIL in my life but it was not meant to be. Sometimes I feel angry
> that she took her life, she over dosed.
>

From my experience, I have always found it harder to lose friends than
family. I will quickly add that spouses would fall closer to the friends
category than family, and I have not lost a child and I am sure that is
the worst of all. As we get on in years we lose the older family
members like parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles.

On 12/21/2014 5:20 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 12/21/2014 3:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>
>>> I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>>> diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>>> and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>>> and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>>> at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.
>>
>> Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.
>
>
> Bi-polar is the "PC" term now used for Manic Depressive. It's the same
> ailment.
>
>
Yes, although why they felt the need to change the terminology is a
mystery. I'm not sure who was offended by it. Manic depressive,
bi-polar. Who decided which name for the diagnosis is better?

Jill

On 12/21/2014 4:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>> diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>> and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>> and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>> at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.
>
> Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.
>
>> After she passed,
>> it was said all of the pain meds she was on. We had to clean out her
>> house and she was on tramadol, percoset, morphine and valium in addition
>> to her chemo meds and anti-nausea meds. Other than the chemo meds, if
>> she was taking all of those at the same time, it's no wonder she fell
>> down the stairs, ending up rupturing her spleen which led to her death.
>> She seemed to be on a very serious "low" just before her accident.
>
> With those meds it was a serious addiction problem... look into who
> prescribed those meds... more likely she was obtaining them illegally
> on the street market,
(snippage)

Obtained illegally on the street? You cannot make such a claim,
Sheldon. There are plenty of doctors who are willing to write scripts
for narcotics for pain relief.

Jill

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:59:12 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
I lost a best friend
> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.

Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that hell? No one KNEW?

Place in hell for those 3.

Kalmia wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote:
> I lost a best friend
>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.
>
>Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that hell? No one KNEW?

I tried, several people tried.

On 12/22/2014 10:21 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:59:12 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> I lost a best friend
>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.
>
> Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that hell? No one KNEW?
>
It's a sad story. All I can say is sometimes there isn't anything you
can do. I can't speak to the specifics of Sheldon's SIL, obviously.
But we've all heard over the years about cops hauling off an abusive
husband only to find the wife refuses to press charges out of fear of
retaliation. He's going to be released and he's going to come home.
Then what?

All too often the accompanying mental abuse has them convinced they
brought it on themselves or somehow deserved it. Abuse, both physical
and mental, is about having control and power over that other person.
It's not a simple issue.

> Place in hell for those 3.
>
Absolutely.

Jill

On 12/22/2014 2:23 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/22/2014 10:21 AM, Kalmia wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:59:12 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> I lost a best friend
>>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.
>>
>> Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that
>> hell? No one KNEW?
>>
> It's a sad story. All I can say is sometimes there isn't anything you
> can do. I can't speak to the specifics of Sheldon's SIL, obviously.
> But we've all heard over the years about cops hauling off an abusive
> husband only to find the wife refuses to press charges out of fear of
> retaliation. He's going to be released and he's going to come home.
> Then what?
>
> All too often the accompanying mental abuse has them convinced they
> brought it on themselves or somehow deserved it. Abuse, both physical
> and mental, is about having control and power over that other person.
> It's not a simple issue.
>

One of my sisters used to work for a lawyer in private practice whose
own version of hell was cases of spousal abuse. He had so many
families coming to him looking for legal intervention to help
(sometimes force) victims of abuse out of their bad situation. Problem
is, most of them didn't want help, had refused help - and that's why
their families found the lawyer. They were desperate to stop the abuse
*somehow*, even when the victim refused to end the relationship.
Trouble is, legally there's nothing anyone can do when the victim
insists on returning to the abuser and continuing the relationship.
Oftentimes, when the victim ended up in the hospital, she would
eagerly agree to divorce and press charges. Once she recovered, she'd
go back to her abuser and refuse to cooperate further with her family
and lawyer. So the cycle of victimization continued.

No one can stop it when the victim persists in continuing to partner
the abuser in the toxic relationship dance. Some of them die without
ever having decided to end the relationship. Others make the decision
and die trying, when their abusive partner won't let them go.

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
>jmcquown wrote:
>>Kalmia wrote:
>>>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> I lost a best friend
>>>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>>>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.
>>>
>>> Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that
>>> hell? No one KNEW?
>>>
>> It's a sad story. All I can say is sometimes there isn't anything you
>> can do. I can't speak to the specifics of Sheldon's SIL, obviously.
>> But we've all heard over the years about cops hauling off an abusive
>> husband only to find the wife refuses to press charges out of fear of
>> retaliation. He's going to be released and he's going to come home.
>> Then what?
>>
>> All too often the accompanying mental abuse has them convinced they
>> brought it on themselves or somehow deserved it. Abuse, both physical
>> and mental, is about having control and power over that other person.
>> It's not a simple issue.
>>
>
>One of my sisters used to work for a lawyer in private practice whose
>own version of hell was cases of spousal abuse. He had so many
>families coming to him looking for legal intervention to help
>(sometimes force) victims of abuse out of their bad situation. Problem
>is, most of them didn't want help, had refused help - and that's why
>their families found the lawyer. They were desperate to stop the abuse
>*somehow*, even when the victim refused to end the relationship.
>Trouble is, legally there's nothing anyone can do when the victim
>insists on returning to the abuser and continuing the relationship.
>Oftentimes, when the victim ended up in the hospital, she would
>eagerly agree to divorce and press charges. Once she recovered, she'd
>go back to her abuser and refuse to cooperate further with her family
>and lawyer. So the cycle of victimization continued.
>
>No one can stop it when the victim persists in continuing to partner
>the abuser in the toxic relationship dance. Some of them die without
>ever having decided to end the relationship. Others make the decision
>and die trying, when their abusive partner won't let them go.

Without getting into details most often people tend to marry someone
like their own parents, women are attracted to someone like their
father and men are attracted to someone like their mother...
regardless their mother/father was a dependant wuss/abusive beast who
they emulate... then history repeats itself. It can take years of
therapy delving into family dynamics for a professional to expose the
problems and offer solutions, often too late.

On 12/21/2014 8:11 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/21/2014 4:59 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>
>>> I also think my late sister was bi-polar. Her daughter has already been
>>> diagnosed and is on medication. But my sister had dramtic mood swings
>>> and when she was "high" she'd call me late at night and just chatter on,
>>> and then there were long periods of time that I wouldn't hear from her
>>> at all, and she wouldn't answer phone calls or emails.
>>
>> Those symptoms sound a lot more like manic depressive than bi-polar.
>>
>>> After she passed,
>>> it was said all of the pain meds she was on. We had to clean out her
>>> house and she was on tramadol, percoset, morphine and valium in addition
>>> to her chemo meds and anti-nausea meds. Other than the chemo meds, if
>>> she was taking all of those at the same time, it's no wonder she fell
>>> down the stairs, ending up rupturing her spleen which led to her death.
>>> She seemed to be on a very serious "low" just before her accident.
>>
>> With those meds it was a serious addiction problem... look into who
>> prescribed those meds... more likely she was obtaining them illegally
>> on the street market,
> (snippage)
>
> Obtained illegally on the street? You cannot make such a claim,
> Sheldon. There are plenty of doctors who are willing to write scripts
> for narcotics for pain relief.
>
> Jill

My mother was put on some of those medications a few months before she
died. The doctor wanted to keep her out of pain, if they do not expect
you to live longer than six months, they do not see a problem with
patients taking this. Some people may need supervision, while they are
taking this, so they do not hurt themselves.

Becca

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> Moe DeLoughan wrote:
>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>Kalmia wrote:
>>>>Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> I lost a best friend
>>>>> sister-in-law like that, her husband would beat the shit out of her
>>>>> and her two teen aged sons abused her unmercilessly.
>>>>
>>>> Why didn't someone intervene and phsycially get her out of that
>>>> hell? No one KNEW?
>>>>
>>> It's a sad story. All I can say is sometimes there isn't anything you
>>> can do. I can't speak to the specifics of Sheldon's SIL, obviously.
>>> But we've all heard over the years about cops hauling off an abusive
>>> husband only to find the wife refuses to press charges out of fear of
>>> retaliation. He's going to be released and he's going to come home.
>>> Then what?
>>>
>>> All too often the accompanying mental abuse has them convinced they
>>> brought it on themselves or somehow deserved it. Abuse, both physical
>>> and mental, is about having control and power over that other person.
>>> It's not a simple issue.
>>>
>>
>>One of my sisters used to work for a lawyer in private practice whose
>>own version of hell was cases of spousal abuse. He had so many
>>families coming to him looking for legal intervention to help
>>(sometimes force) victims of abuse out of their bad situation. Problem
>>is, most of them didn't want help, had refused help - and that's why
>>their families found the lawyer. They were desperate to stop the abuse
>>*somehow*, even when the victim refused to end the relationship.
>>Trouble is, legally there's nothing anyone can do when the victim
>>insists on returning to the abuser and continuing the relationship.
>>Oftentimes, when the victim ended up in the hospital, she would
>>eagerly agree to divorce and press charges. Once she recovered, she'd
>>go back to her abuser and refuse to cooperate further with her family
>>and lawyer. So the cycle of victimization continued.
>>
>>No one can stop it when the victim persists in continuing to partner
>>the abuser in the toxic relationship dance. Some of them die without
>>ever having decided to end the relationship. Others make the decision
>>and die trying, when their abusive partner won't let them go.
>
> Without getting into details most often people tend to marry someone
> like their own parents, women are attracted to someone like their
> father and men are attracted to someone like their mother...
> regardless their mother/father was a dependant wuss/abusive beast who
> they emulate... then history repeats itself. It can take years of
> therapy delving into family dynamics for a professional to expose the
> problems and offer solutions, often too late.

That is very true. My husband and dad were so very similar in personality
that my mom could not stand it when they were together. Why? They would
sort of feed off of each other and when we left, my dad would start behaving
in ways that she did not like. I won't get into any particulars. But it
had to do with some of their traits that can be annoying to others.

People also may have grown up in a home where very abnormal things occurred
but those things seemed normal to them because it was what they were used
to.