A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
it failed!

I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
might be Franken-foods in their diet.

"Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
food I'm putting into my body"

nb --scratching head

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:30:15 AM UTC-6, notbob wrote:
> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"
>
I would certainly have voted yes, but I would also certainly not avoid a food because it was labelled GMO. People voted particularly stupidly this election.
>
> nb --scratching head

--Bryan

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:30:15 AM UTC-6, notbob wrote:
> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"


The agribusiness giants don't think that's something you peons need to know. They also think they should be allowed to use the Certified Organic label even when the stuff in the package has a few chemicals, pesticides and GMOs here and there.

I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.

Christopher Helms wrote:
>
> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.

Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.

Gary wrote:
>
> Christopher Helms wrote:
> >
> > I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>
> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.

It seems so. They're having the same angst at the voters rejection of
other "progressive" ideals, the "but but, we're smarter than they are,
how dare they not do what we say" mentality. Pretty sad.

Mostly the reasons that something like a GMO labeling measure fails a

1. People know it will increase the cost of the food they buy.

2. Most people are not paranoid about GMOs unlike the small minority
that pushes for such laws.

Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
costs on the things they do buy.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> costs on the things they do buy.

That's a false argument for those who grow their own.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:28:28 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> > Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> > avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> > and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> > costs on the things they do buy.
>
> That's a false argument for those who grow their own.

Spent much time in CO? I didn't think so. I have and most everyone has a
greenhouse and grows some of their own food. There are also a number of
local organic co-op type operations.

On 2014-11-08 1:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
>>
>> Christopher Helms wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>>
>> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
>> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
>
> It seems so. They're having the same angst at the voters rejection of
> other "progressive" ideals, the "but but, we're smarter than they are,
> how dare they not do what we say" mentality. Pretty sad.
>
> Mostly the reasons that something like a GMO labeling measure fails a
>
> 1. People know it will increase the cost of the food they buy.

How exactly will slapping a GMO label on the food increase the cost of
food?
>
> 2. Most people are not paranoid about GMOs unlike the small minority
> that pushes for such laws.

Most of the people are ignorant about some of the details. Farmers used
to be able to buy their seed, harvest it and keep a portion for the seed
for the next year's crop. GMOs won't let you do that. There is concern
about them contaminating other crops and farmers being on the hook for
patent fees. Look at the case of Monsanto vs.Schmeiser where a farmer's
field was accidentally contaminated and Monsanto sued.



>
> Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
> avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
> and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
> costs on the things they do buy.

Sure... a note on the packaging acknowledging that it is GMO.... that's
got to cost at least $5 per package.


>

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:00:25 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2014-11-08 1:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>> Mostly the reasons that something like a GMO labeling measure fails a
>>
>> 1. People know it will increase the cost of the food they buy.
>
>How exactly will slapping a GMO label on the food increase the cost of
>food?

It won't of course. But putting the fear out there of higher prices
always does the trick.

>> 2. Most people are not paranoid about GMOs unlike the small minority
>> that pushes for such laws.
>
>Most of the people are ignorant about some of the details. Farmers used
>to be able to buy their seed, harvest it and keep a portion for the seed
>for the next year's crop. GMOs won't let you do that. There is concern
>about them contaminating other crops and farmers being on the hook for
>patent fees. Look at the case of Monsanto vs.Schmeiser where a farmer's
>field was accidentally contaminated and Monsanto sued.

Yeah... 'accidentally'. I know going back several years ago, there was
a spate of non-GMO crops 'accidentally' contaminated with GMO seed.
Even more remarkable was the apparent psychic ability of Monsanto to
locate such crops and get court orders to have them tested. It was
just a ploy to drive out those farmers resisting the change to GMO
crops and maintaining their own seed, of course.


>> Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care about
>> avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a local grower
>> and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need to increase the
>> costs on the things they do buy.
>
>Sure... a note on the packaging acknowledging that it is GMO.... that's
>got to cost at least $5 per package.

On 08/11/2014 1:00 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-11-08 1:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> that pushes for such laws.
>
> Most of the people are ignorant about some of the details. Farmers used
> to be able to buy their seed, harvest it and keep a portion for the seed
> for the next year's crop. GMOs won't let you do that. There is concern
> about them contaminating other crops and farmers being on the hook for
> patent fees. Look at the case of Monsanto vs.Schmeiser where a farmer's
> field was accidentally contaminated and Monsanto sued.
>
If you believe it was accidentally contaminated, I have a bridge that you
might be interested in buying! {:-)
Graham

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2014-11-08 1:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > Gary wrote:
> >>
> >> Christopher Helms wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
> >>
> >> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> >> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
> >
> > It seems so. They're having the same angst at the voters rejection of
> > other "progressive" ideals, the "but but, we're smarter than they are,
> > how dare they not do what we say" mentality. Pretty sad.
> >
> > Mostly the reasons that something like a GMO labeling measure fails a
> >
> > 1. People know it will increase the cost of the food they buy.
>
> How exactly will slapping a GMO label on the food increase the cost of
> food?

See my other post. The people pushing for such labeling laws are the
simplistic ones who can't see past their prejudices, or worse know what
the real costs and affects are and don't care since it fits their agenda
of attacking commercial farms.

Pete C. wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> Gary wrote:
> >
> > Christopher Helms wrote:
> > >
> > > I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if
> > > they had realized what they were actually voting for.
> >
> > Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> > are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
>
> It seems so. They're having the same angst at the voters rejection of
> other "progressive" ideals, the "but but, we're smarter than they are,
> how dare they not do what we say" mentality. Pretty sad.
>
> Mostly the reasons that something like a GMO labeling measure fails
> a
>
> 1. People know it will increase the cost of the food they buy.
>
> 2. Most people are not paranoid about GMOs unlike the small minority
> that pushes for such laws.
>
> Additionally in a "natural" state like CO, the people who do care
> about avoiding GMOs already grow their own food or get it from a
> local grower and know what to avoid in the stores so they see no need
> to increase the costs on the things they do buy.

Yup. Works outside the area too. Not everyone is paranoid about GMO.

We all have enough things to worry about. If someone wants to eat GMO
free and have the money for it, then they should do it. They should
not tell the rest of us to be paranoid and eat the same.

--

On 2014-11-08 22:48, cshenk wrote:

> Yup. Works outside the area too. Not everyone is paranoid about GMO.
>
> We all have enough things to worry about. If someone wants to eat GMO
> free and have the money for it, then they should do it. They should
> not tell the rest of us to be paranoid and eat the same.


Most people are not aware of the extent of GMO food or the implications
of it. If there are no problems with GMO foods there should be no
problem labeling it as such.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:48:02 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:


>We all have enough things to worry about.

And?

>If someone wants to eat GMO
>free and have the money for it, then they should do it.

That's not the problem. The problem is for those who want to avoid
GMOs, it's extremely hard for those who buy their food to do so.
Not to mention the contamination of non-GMO crops and wild plants that
is happening around the world.

>They should
>not tell the rest of us to be paranoid and eat the same.

That cuts both ways, but for those who don't care about GMOs, it's
easy and you have no problem, although it seems you're trying
desperately to find one to blame on those who don't like GMOs.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:33:35 AM UTC-6, Gary wrote:
> Christopher Helms wrote:
> >
> > I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>
> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.

But Gary, in that aspect of your life, you *are* an idiot. You're a Republican
without a pot to **** in. I can understand greedy rich folks voting GOP out of
what they perceive as their economic self interest, but you're just a working
stiff. You're a chump.

--Bryan

On 2014-11-08 2:59 PM, Bryan-TGWWW wrote:
>
> But Gary, in that aspect of your life, you *are* an idiot. You're a Republican
> without a pot to **** in. I can understand greedy rich folks voting GOP out of
> what they perceive as their economic self interest, but you're just a working
> stiff. You're a chump.


They are the kind of people who work as cashiers and spend half their
days demonstrating the self checkout. It is a position like that of the
Judas goat.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 11:59:55 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:33:35 AM UTC-6, Gary wrote:
>> Christopher Helms wrote:
>> >
>> > I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>>
>> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
>> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
>
>But Gary, in that aspect of your life, you *are* an idiot. You're a Republican
>without a pot to **** in. I can understand greedy rich folks voting GOP out of
>what they perceive as their economic self interest, but you're just a working
>stiff. You're a chump.

Divide and rule. It never fails to work.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:34:53 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Christopher Helms wrote:
>>
>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>
>Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
>are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.

Rep - Dem
Coke - Pepsi
Ford - Chev

Pick your team. The other team is stoopid!
AKA...
Same shit, different lable.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:33:42 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:34:53 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
>>Christopher Helms wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>>
>>Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
>>are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
>
>Rep - Dem
>Coke - Pepsi
>Ford - Chev
>
>Pick your team. The other team is stoopid!
>AKA...
>Same shit, different lable.

Yes, the political parties today are bad and worse. In our election
for governor, the exit polls told the truth. Most everyone they spoke
to said they voted for the guy they disliked less.

As for the ballot questions, many are phrased in such a way that you
have to answer yes to mean no or no to mean yes

Do you want to stop the discontinuance of aiding terrorist
organizations?

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:57:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:33:42 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:34:53 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>>Christopher Helms wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>>>
>>>Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
>>>are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
>>
>>Rep - Dem
>>Coke - Pepsi
>>Ford - Chev
>>
>>Pick your team. The other team is stoopid!
>>AKA...
>>Same shit, different lable.
>
>Yes, the political parties today are bad and worse. In our election
>for governor, the exit polls told the truth. Most everyone they spoke
>to said they voted for the guy they disliked less.
>
>As for the ballot questions, many are phrased in such a way that you
>have to answer yes to mean no or no to mean yes
>
>Do you want to stop the discontinuance of aiding terrorist
>organizations?

I know what you mean, we have the occasional referendum here, and the
questions are frequently like that. One time I refused to vote because
of it. There was one question where answering either yes or no really
meant yes in both cases.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:49:59 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:57:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:33:42 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:34:53 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Christopher Helms wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
> >>>
> >>>Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> >>>are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.
> >>
> >>Rep - Dem
> >>Coke - Pepsi
> >>Ford - Chev
> >>
> >>Pick your team. The other team is stoopid!
> >>AKA...
> >>Same shit, different lable.
> >
> >Yes, the political parties today are bad and worse. In our election
> >for governor, the exit polls told the truth. Most everyone they spoke
> >to said they voted for the guy they disliked less.
> >
> >As for the ballot questions, many are phrased in such a way that you
> >have to answer yes to mean no or no to mean yes
> >
> >Do you want to stop the discontinuance of aiding terrorist
> >organizations?
>
> I can see lots of people answering that question with a heartfelt Yes!
>
The Republicans are tough and principled, albeit almost purely evil, and
the Democrats are wimps who are really the last hope against Republican
evil, but they try to triangulate, and always play defense.
>
> --
> Bruce

--Bryan

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:33:35 AM UTC-6, Gary wrote:
> Christopher Helms wrote:
> >
> > I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.
>
> Good grief~ So are you saying that those that didn't vote your way
> are all idiots? Sure sounds like it. You must be a liberal Dem.

You must not know what you're talking about.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:44:38 -0800 (PST), Christopher Helms
> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:30:15 AM UTC-6, notbob wrote:
>> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
>> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
>> it failed!
>>
>> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
>> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
>> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
>> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>>
>> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
>> food I'm putting into my body"
>
>
>The agribusiness giants don't think that's something you peons need to know. They also think they should be allowed to use the Certified Organic label even when the stuff in the package has a few chemicals, pesticides and GMOs here and there.
>
>I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have voted the way they did if they had realized what they were actually voting for.

That's normal for any election though.

On 8 Nov 2014 16:30:10 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!

Was it one of those deceptive Yes means No and No means Yes type of
ballot measures? It works every time unless there's an effective
advertising campaign alerting the public to pay attention.

>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"
>
> nb --scratching head

Agree.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
>A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"


It failed in California too. Massive amounts of corporate cash did it in.
They had people believing that a mere label was such a burden to the food
industry that they would have to raise prices dramatically.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

"Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> > Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> > it failed!
> >
> > I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> > happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> > campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> > might be Franken-foods in their diet.
> >
> > "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> > food I'm putting into my body"
>
> It failed in California too. Massive amounts of corporate cash did it in.
> They had people believing that a mere label was such a burden to the food
> industry that they would have to raise prices dramatically.

Not quite true. They rightly pointed out that it wasn't a simple label,
but rather for commercial food producers where one big honkin' factory
produces a huge array of products it becomes a very large administrative
overhead.

Unless you want to just slap a GMO label on every single product
produced, you have to segregate supplies of GMO and non GMO ingredients
in warehouses, track and ensure the correct ingredients are pulled for
each batch run, ensure every piece of equipment is cleaned to absurd
levels beyond sanitizing (same reason for the "produced in a facility
that also processes xxxx", etc.

The GMO / non-GMO label isn't what adds the cost, it's all the back end
changes and overhead that add the cost.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:02:17 PM UTC-5, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> > Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> > it failed!
> >
> > I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> > happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> > campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> > might be Franken-foods in their diet.
> >
> > "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> > food I'm putting into my body"
>
>
> It failed in California too. Massive amounts of corporate cash did it in.
> They had people believing that a mere label was such a burden to the food
> industry that they would have to raise prices dramatically.

Well, give it a few more years. I never thought I'd see any kind of nutritional labeling either, let along no smoking in public haunts. Steps forward are minute, it seems.

When smoking was outlawed in my office, - oh, the hue and cry --but I didn't see one smoker resigning.

On 08/11/2014 9:30 AM, notbob wrote:
> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"
>
> nb --scratching head
>
The trouble is that there are certain words or initials or acronyms that
engender illogical fears and emotions. People react against "GMO",
"Fracking", "Big Pharma" etc. out of ignorance.
Graham

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 9:30:15 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:
> A proposition 105 failed to pass, by a two thirds vote, in Colorado on
> Tue. It was a proposition to require GMO labeling on all foods. And
> it failed!
>
> I don't know what to say. I'm aghast. I don't even know what
> happened. Was it simple cuz the qanti's spent 4X the amt on the
> campaign? I jes can't imagine that ppl would NOT want to know there
> might be Franken-foods in their diet.
>
> "Uhh... no thanks yer evilship. I don't want to know what's in the
> food I'm putting into my body"
>
> nb --scratching head

The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive. I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be something that can actually be carried out.

My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

DaleP

On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:

>
> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
something that
can actually be carried out.
>
> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
that many
frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
don't seem
to be labeled.
>
> DaleP
>
Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
"Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
fish-plant workers of employment.
There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
local ingredient is the water.
Graham

graham wrote:
>
> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
>
> >
> > The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
> something that
> can actually be carried out.
> >
> > My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
> that many
> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
> don't seem
> to be labeled.
> >
> > DaleP
> >
> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
> fish-plant workers of employment.

Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
transport ship to market without ever coming near land.

> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
> local ingredient is the water.
> Graham

Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
"Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.

On 09/11/2014 12:13 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> graham wrote:
>>
>> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
>> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
>> something that
>> can actually be carried out.
>>>
>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
>> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
>> that many
>> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
>> don't seem
>> to be labeled.
>>>
>>> DaleP
>>>
>> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
>> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
>> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
>> fish-plant workers of employment.
>
> Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
> been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
> amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
> middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
> transport ship to market without ever coming near land.

But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

>
>> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
>> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
>> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
>> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
>> local ingredient is the water.
>> Graham
>
> Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
> area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
> X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
> or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
> "Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.
>
The trouble is that COO labelling applies only to the major ingredient,
in this case water!
Graham

On 2014-11-09, graham > wrote:

> But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

Believe it's from China.

US lobbyists, long ago, made it legal for Chinese companies to set up
mfg sites on American protectorates (Wake Is., American Samoa, etc),
hire Chinese or Indian labor, and still label the finished product as
"made in America".

nb

graham wrote:
>
> On 09/11/2014 12:13 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > graham wrote:
> >>
> >> On 09/11/2014 11:41 AM, dalep wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The proposition was poorly written and had requirements that were too restrictive.
> >> I am all in favor of food labeling, but the law must make sense and be
> >> something that
> >> can actually be carried out.
> >>>
> >>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed
> >> the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice
> >> that many
> >> frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs
> >> don't seem
> >> to be labeled.
> >>>
> >>> DaleP
> >>>
> >> Country of origin is *very* important. Lots of frozen fish is labelled
> >> "Product of China" but in many cases it is our good ol' US and Canadian
> >> companies taking our fish to China for processing, thus depriving our
> >> fish-plant workers of employment.
> >
> > Much of that US wild caught, "processed in China" fish has never even
> > been remotely close to China in reality. China operates some rather
> > amazing processing ships so the catch is transferred to them in the
> > middle of the ocean, processed on the ship and then transferred to a
> > transport ship to market without ever coming near land.
>
> But when it says "Product of China" what are we to believe?

Product of China would originate from the polluted fish farms in China.
Processed in China would mean it may have been wild caught by ships from
some other country, but it was processed either in mainland China or on
a Chinese flagged vessel either way with Chinese standards and quality
control.

>
> >
> >> There is a well known "maker" of fruit juices in the Okanagan Valley, a
> >> major fruit growing area, that uses concentrates from China to make
> >> those little juice packs that are present in so many schoolkids' lunch
> >> boxes. One assumes that the product is Canadian or USian but the only
> >> local ingredient is the water.
> >> Graham
> >
> > Locate your plant, or even just your corporate mailing address in an
> > area known to produce item X and many people will assume you use local
> > X. Fortunately more and more people are paying attention to COO labeling
> > or lack thereof and adjusting their purchasing habits appropriately.
> > "Packaged in USA" and similar aren't fooling many people either.
> >
> The trouble is that COO labelling applies only to the major ingredient,
> in this case water!
> Graham

Yes, COO labeling needs better regulations, but it's a start.

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> wrote:

> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
products of the USA.

I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
look for it. This is one of those "how does it affect me" examples of
more government is better and I like it. I just need to develop
better habits and remember to look before I buy. Same with GMO
labeling. It will be great when that is the norm too. Tea Party
Republicans and Libertarians don't want to know what they're shoving
down their gullets, but the rest of us would like to have the tools to
make informed decisions.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> > wrote:
>
>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>
> Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
> fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
> where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
> is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
> products of the USA.
>
> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> look for it.

One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
"Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
Graham

On 2014-11-09, graham > wrote:

> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!

How could you tell? Did the fish have slanty eyes? Did the bag
promise, "Me taste good long time"?

nb

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:04:46 -0700, graham > wrote:

> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
> >
> > Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
> > fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
> > where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
> > is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
> > products of the USA.
> >
> > I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
> > look for it.
>
> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
> Graham

Was it a package within a package?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 09/11/2014 1:27 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:04:46 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?! Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the head's up! I look to see where fish, shellfish, fresh
>>> fruit and vegetables originate, never thought about looking to see
>>> where my frozen vegetables came from. My Trader Joe's frozen spinach
>>> is a product of Mexico, TJ's petite peas and fire roasted corn are
>>> products of the USA.
>>>
>>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
>>> look for it.
>>
>> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
>> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
>> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
>> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!
>> Graham
>
> Was it a package within a package?
>
>
Yes! But when I checked the outer one, the product of Vietnam was hidden
under a fold (factory produced).
I should have been more careful!
Graham

On 2014-11-09 3:04 PM, graham wrote:
> On 09/11/2014 12:58 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:41:28 -0800 (PST), dalep
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> My current complaint is when I opened a bag of Birds Eye frozen veg
>>> and noticed the small print that it was a product of China. WHAT?!
>>> Now I notice that many frozen foods are not listing any country of
>>> origin. Most items at TJs don't seem to be labeled.

Some Green Giant products are also from China these says.

>> I am so accustomed to not having that kind of information, I forget to
>> look for it.
>
> One can also be lulled into a false assumption. Safeway had some
> barramundi in the freezer section and the label was something like
> "Australibrand" or something that implied an Australian origin. When I
> opened the bag later, it was from a Vietnamese fish farm!

Like Europe's Best frozen foods. You look at the package and assume it
is European. Then it turns out to be from China.