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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 7 May 2013 19:49:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Diabetes doesn't "lead to" heart disease. He may have heart problems. I
>> don't. Never have. Many diabetics don't.

>
> Maybe, but maybe you're like governor Christie and an obese person I
> know who say they are in perfect health... it doesn't mean it won't
> happen. Christie got lap band surgery for his "health"... if he was
> still healthy every other way in reality, he wouldn't have done it.
> Men are like that.


I would never say that I'm in perfect health. Nobody with diabetes could
make that claim!
>
>> It might be said that there is a
>> higher percentage of diabetics with heart problems than the general
>> population but I don't know that to be true.

>
> I don't know either, that's what I read recently and I have no reason
> to disbelieve it because doctors always tell people to lose weight
> even if they are healthy otherwise. Why? Because excess weight leads
> to other problems.


No Dr. has told me to lose weight. Not ever. But I was told to gain weight
when I was severely underweight. And my doing that then would be about as
futile as my trying to lose weight now.

Recent studies have shown that overweight people live longer than
underweight or even normal weight people. I don't think being overweight is
a problem or even the lower end of obese. Certainly if one is morbidly
obese there can be wear and tear on the joints, the back, etc. I suppose
the feet could even take a pounding. But there are plenty of obese people
who have no known medical problems. Of course the fact that they are obese
might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say this
online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the Dr. will not
help them unless they lose weight.
>
>> Nor do I know it not to be
>> true. My friend's dad had heart problems. No diabetes. Same with my
>> friend. Same with my grandpa.

>
> Yes, people can have heart disease and not be overweight. I didn't
> say that was the ONLY way people get heart disease. People who have
> never been overweight in their lives can have high cholesterol too...
> and they won't have heart disease (yet).


Yep.
>
>> But I have a friend of a friend who has
>> both. Started with the heart problems. The diabetes was discovered
>> about
>> 2-3 years later.

>
> Hubby was "pre" diabetic for decades, had the stents while he was
> still being told he was pre-diabetic. So much for that.


Okay.
>>
>> I never limit my fat but...

>
> You haven't had heart problems yet. Get back to me after they put
> stents in your heart.


What makes you think that I will? I am 53 now. Have had an EKG and it
showed no problems. Also had some sort of blood test to see if there were
markers for heart problems. There were none.


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On Tue, 7 May 2013 21:19:19 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> But there are plenty of obese people
> who have no known medical problems.


My theory is that age and genetic have a lot to do with it. If your
family line doesn't have diabetes, cholesterol or heart disease - it
takes longer for your body to develop it. Show me an obese 80 year
old who is still free of those problems.

> Of course the fact that they are obese
> might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say this
> online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the Dr. will not
> help them unless they lose weight.


That's BS. They probably don't have medical insurance.


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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 7 May 2013 21:19:19 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> But there are plenty of obese people
>> who have no known medical problems.

>
> My theory is that age and genetic have a lot to do with it. If your
> family line doesn't have diabetes, cholesterol or heart disease - it
> takes longer for your body to develop it. Show me an obese 80 year
> old who is still free of those problems.


There have been plenty in my family. Neither of my grandmas had those
problems. Neither did my mom's aunts who were obese. They lived well into
their 80's and beyond.
>
>> Of course the fact that they are obese
>> might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say this
>> online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the Dr. will
>> not
>> help them unless they lose weight.

>
> That's BS. They probably don't have medical insurance.


No. It's not BS. I do know people who are afraid of that.


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"barbie gee" > wrote in message
crg.pbz...
>
>
> On Tue, 7 May 2013, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 7 May 2013 19:49:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diabetes doesn't "lead to" heart disease. He may have heart problems.
>>>> I
>>>> don't. Never have. Many diabetics don't.
>>>
>>> Maybe, but maybe you're like governor Christie and an obese person I
>>> know who say they are in perfect health... it doesn't mean it won't
>>> happen. Christie got lap band surgery for his "health"... if he was
>>> still healthy every other way in reality, he wouldn't have done it.
>>> Men are like that.

>>
>> I would never say that I'm in perfect health. Nobody with diabetes could
>> make that claim!
>>>
>>>> It might be said that there is a
>>>> higher percentage of diabetics with heart problems than the general
>>>> population but I don't know that to be true.
>>>
>>> I don't know either, that's what I read recently and I have no reason
>>> to disbelieve it because doctors always tell people to lose weight
>>> even if they are healthy otherwise. Why? Because excess weight leads
>>> to other problems.

>>
>> No Dr. has told me to lose weight. Not ever. But I was told to gain
>> weight
>> when I was severely underweight. And my doing that then would be about
>> as
>> futile as my trying to lose weight now.
>>
>> Recent studies have shown that overweight people live longer than
>> underweight or even normal weight people. I don't think being overweight
>> is
>> a problem or even the lower end of obese. Certainly if one is morbidly
>> obese there can be wear and tear on the joints, the back, etc. I suppose
>> the feet could even take a pounding. But there are plenty of obese
>> people
>> who have no known medical problems. Of course the fact that they are
>> obese
>> might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say this
>> online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the Dr. will
>> not
>> help them unless they lose weight.

>
> maybe because "obese" is not generally the normal state for the human
> body? I suspect you've misread the study you're referring to about
> "overweight people live longer than...". There are more than a few
> qualifying statements in that study. Overweight in the USA IS a problem,
> that's become epidemic in my lifetime, and I'm your age.
>
> I watched some of that Dr. Fuhrman program on "Diabesity" on my local PBS
> station recently, and he had an interesting statistic; in the 1980's, no
> state in the US had over 20% obesity rate, and in 2010 there was not a
> state that didn't have over 20% obesity! What the heck are we doing,
> people?


And that's the problem. We just don't know. Lots of finger pointing! But
nobody knows.


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Julie Bove wrote:
> "barbie gee" > wrote in message
> crg.pbz...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 7 May 2013, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2013 19:49:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Diabetes doesn't "lead to" heart disease. He may have heart
>>>>> problems. I
>>>>> don't. Never have. Many diabetics don't.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe, but maybe you're like governor Christie and an obese person
>>>> I know who say they are in perfect health... it doesn't mean it
>>>> won't happen. Christie got lap band surgery for his "health"...
>>>> if he was still healthy every other way in reality, he wouldn't
>>>> have done it. Men are like that.
>>>
>>> I would never say that I'm in perfect health. Nobody with diabetes
>>> could make that claim!
>>>>
>>>>> It might be said that there is a
>>>>> higher percentage of diabetics with heart problems than the
>>>>> general population but I don't know that to be true.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know either, that's what I read recently and I have no
>>>> reason to disbelieve it because doctors always tell people to lose
>>>> weight even if they are healthy otherwise. Why? Because excess
>>>> weight leads to other problems.
>>>
>>> No Dr. has told me to lose weight. Not ever. But I was told to
>>> gain weight
>>> when I was severely underweight. And my doing that then would be
>>> about as
>>> futile as my trying to lose weight now.
>>>
>>> Recent studies have shown that overweight people live longer than
>>> underweight or even normal weight people. I don't think being
>>> overweight is
>>> a problem or even the lower end of obese. Certainly if one is
>>> morbidly obese there can be wear and tear on the joints, the back,
>>> etc. I suppose the feet could even take a pounding. But there are
>>> plenty of obese people
>>> who have no known medical problems. Of course the fact that they
>>> are obese
>>> might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say
>>> this online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the
>>> Dr. will not
>>> help them unless they lose weight.

>>
>> maybe because "obese" is not generally the normal state for the human
>> body? I suspect you've misread the study you're referring to about
>> "overweight people live longer than...". There are more than a few
>> qualifying statements in that study. Overweight in the USA IS a
>> problem, that's become epidemic in my lifetime, and I'm your age.
>>
>> I watched some of that Dr. Fuhrman program on "Diabesity" on my
>> local PBS station recently, and he had an interesting statistic; in
>> the 1980's, no state in the US had over 20% obesity rate, and in
>> 2010 there was not a state that didn't have over 20% obesity! What
>> the heck are we doing, people?

>
> And that's the problem. We just don't know. Lots of finger
> pointing! But nobody knows.


No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well documented.
One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and which is the egg,
but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven behavioral strategies
to solve the problem. They're all basically eat less, eat better, and
move more. We eat more, we eat poorer quality food, and we move less
than we used to.

-S-




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"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...

> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well documented.
> One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and which is the egg, but
> that doesn't mean there aren't already proven behavioral strategies to
> solve the problem. They're all basically eat less, eat better, and move
> more. We eat more, we eat poorer quality food, and we move less than we
> used to.
>
> -S-


Oh dear GAWD! Don't give me that. Please! Please! I think if I ate less
than I do know I would probably starve. For sure I would be malnourished.
I already have to take handfuls of supplements each morning and night for
what is lacking in my diet. On a really good day I can take in about 1,000
calories per day. Once in a great while 1,100. But that's really rare.
Most days I am lucky to be able to get in 800. That's two meals, one of
which is toast, 6 days a week. And a bed time snack. Lately I have been
having extreme trouble with that snack putting it off later and later and
finally resorting to eating a few Saltines because I am just not hungry!

There is no way I can eat better than what I do. My stomach just doesn't
digest certain things and I can't possibly eat more. If I try to, it comes
right back up. I try to avoid that. I do run every bite that I eat through
the Cron-O-Meter every once in a while to check the amount of calories I am
taking in and where the vitamins and minerals might be lacking. It's almost
always lacking in vitamin E. And then I take Metformin which leaches the
B12 out of the body.

I can not move more either. I am disabled for one thing. I am as active as
I can be. If I have to push myself to do more then I risk a Fibromyalgia
flare and that can leave me pretty much bedridden or sitting in a chair
trying to ease the muscle cramps that take over my body. Better I should do
what I know my body can handle and not do something that I know will sicken
me unless I have to. And yes, sometimes I have to.

The Dr. ordered me to stop working out with weights. I used to do quite a
lot of that but all it did was raise my blood sugar. Did not cause any
weight loss at all. Did build up muscles and then the muscles got tight.
The Rheumatologist said that I didn't have muscles. I had iron. And tight
muscles and Fibromyalgia go hand in hand.

I am very picky about my food. I read every label on everything I buy. If
it has a label. And much of it does not because it is simply produce or
dried beans. Some meat. Plain meat that I cook from scratch most of the
time. Or cooked hamburger patties from Costco. Nothing added. Also nuts
and seeds. I eat things that a lot of people won't because I see the
nutritional value in them. Like chia and hemp seeds.

I am a big stickler for healthy foods. Just ask my nieces and nephews. If
they go out with me for a day, I don't care where we are, they're going to
eat healthy food. Yeah, if we're at a carnival, I might buy them a fried
food and a sweet, although I will try not to. But they're also going to eat
some vegetables. I will find these sorts of things. I will try to check
ahead of time. And if I think there might be a problem, you'd better
believe that there will be baby carrots and celery sticks in my purse with a
little ice pack.

I only wish it were as easy as just eating less and moving more. It's not
for most people. Yes, there are exceptions. Some people overeat or have
eating disorders. These sorts of things may or may not be easy to address.
And then of course there are the people who simply don't know how to eat
properly. We've seen them countless times on those weight loss sorts of TV
shows. Perhaps for some of them it is simply a matter of changing their
diets. And exercising more. But in most cases there is going to be a
psychological issue that causes them to eat what they do and/or the amounts
that they do.

How many times have we seen yo yo dieters? I've seen tons. Even if it's
only 10 pounds that they lose. Yeah, they can lose but they can't maintain
that weight loss.

I myself lost 30 pounds back in the 1980's. It wasn't easy to do. I had to
eat so little that I was hungry and crabby all the time. I had to exercise
to the point of injury. I did this for 3 years. But it wasn't something I
could maintain. I snapped. I was tired of feeling exhausted and awful and
hungry and limiting what I did and where I went because I didn't want the
temptation of food around. I caved. That's what happens to most people.

I only eat less now because of my stomach issues. My stomach will only
allow me to eat so much.


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Julie Bove wrote:
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well
>> documented. One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and
>> which is the egg, but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven
>> behavioral strategies to solve the problem. They're all basically
>> eat less, eat better, and move more. We eat more, we eat poorer
>> quality food, and we move less than we used to.
>>
>> -S-

>
> Oh dear GAWD! Don't give me that. Please! Please! I think if I
> ate less than I do know I would probably starve.


Nobody said this was directed at you personally. The trends are well
documented. Good for me, and good for you if they don't apply to either
of us. There are plenty of people who have disabilities or maladies who
have my sincere sympathy, and there are also plenty of people who eat
and exercise poorly and are capable of making better choices than buying
the food they see advertised on television. The simple act of watching
less TV would also fix more than a few health problems, I'm sure.

-S-


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W wrote:

>> I buy strong, dark choclate with real sugar, and eat small amounts
>> instead. Very low carb.

>
> Sugar is sugar, and if you buy into the whole Paleo dietary approach,
> mankind is not evolved metabolically to eat large amounts of
> sugar. -snip-


Small amounts does not equal large amounts.

> Someone who eats small amounts of sugar-laden chocolate is probably
> eating lots of high carb foods that have various wheat flours and
> processed foods. So the actual carbohydrate and sugar load is
> probably much higher than you think you are getting based on the
> sugar content in the chocolate alone.


That's too broad a generalization, and plenty of people are capable of
the mindfullness to do what's being described here, including me. I
eat small amounts of sugar-laden foods pretty regularly and I don't
otherwise have much in the way of carbs in my diet, e.g., I'd guess I
take in around 100-200 grams of carbs per day most days. I like to have
enough that I am well clear of ketosis and feel good, and over the
years, I've learned that I feel fine as long as I don't eliminate things
like bread and rice from my diet, just keep their consumption moderate.
It's pretty easy in my case because I don't have things like bread,
rice, and pasta except once a day at dinner, and the same goes for
sweets.

-S-


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"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well
>>> documented. One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and
>>> which is the egg, but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven
>>> behavioral strategies to solve the problem. They're all basically
>>> eat less, eat better, and move more. We eat more, we eat poorer
>>> quality food, and we move less than we used to.
>>>
>>> -S-

>>
>> Oh dear GAWD! Don't give me that. Please! Please! I think if I
>> ate less than I do know I would probably starve.

>
> Nobody said this was directed at you personally. The trends are well
> documented. Good for me, and good for you if they don't apply to either
> of us. There are plenty of people who have disabilities or maladies who
> have my sincere sympathy, and there are also plenty of people who eat and
> exercise poorly and are capable of making better choices than buying the
> food they see advertised on television. The simple act of watching less
> TV would also fix more than a few health problems, I'm sure.
>

And the world is also full of people for which the eat less and move more
just doesn't apply. People can exercise while watching TV. They do it all
the time.


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"barbie gee" > wrote in message
hcrg.pbz...
>
>
> On Wed, 8 May 2013, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "barbie gee" > wrote in message
>>> crg.pbz...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2013, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2013 19:49:52 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Diabetes doesn't "lead to" heart disease. He may have heart
>>>>>>> problems. I
>>>>>>> don't. Never have. Many diabetics don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe, but maybe you're like governor Christie and an obese person
>>>>>> I know who say they are in perfect health... it doesn't mean it
>>>>>> won't happen. Christie got lap band surgery for his "health"...
>>>>>> if he was still healthy every other way in reality, he wouldn't
>>>>>> have done it. Men are like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would never say that I'm in perfect health. Nobody with diabetes
>>>>> could make that claim!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It might be said that there is a
>>>>>>> higher percentage of diabetics with heart problems than the
>>>>>>> general population but I don't know that to be true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know either, that's what I read recently and I have no
>>>>>> reason to disbelieve it because doctors always tell people to lose
>>>>>> weight even if they are healthy otherwise. Why? Because excess
>>>>>> weight leads to other problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> No Dr. has told me to lose weight. Not ever. But I was told to
>>>>> gain weight
>>>>> when I was severely underweight. And my doing that then would be
>>>>> about as
>>>>> futile as my trying to lose weight now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recent studies have shown that overweight people live longer than
>>>>> underweight or even normal weight people. I don't think being
>>>>> overweight is
>>>>> a problem or even the lower end of obese. Certainly if one is
>>>>> morbidly obese there can be wear and tear on the joints, the back,
>>>>> etc. I suppose the feet could even take a pounding. But there are
>>>>> plenty of obese people
>>>>> who have no known medical problems. Of course the fact that they
>>>>> are obese
>>>>> might make them not want to go to the Dr. I have seen people say
>>>>> this online. They get sick but fear the Dr. because they think the
>>>>> Dr. will not
>>>>> help them unless they lose weight.
>>>>
>>>> maybe because "obese" is not generally the normal state for the human
>>>> body? I suspect you've misread the study you're referring to about
>>>> "overweight people live longer than...". There are more than a few
>>>> qualifying statements in that study. Overweight in the USA IS a
>>>> problem, that's become epidemic in my lifetime, and I'm your age.
>>>>
>>>> I watched some of that Dr. Fuhrman program on "Diabesity" on my
>>>> local PBS station recently, and he had an interesting statistic; in
>>>> the 1980's, no state in the US had over 20% obesity rate, and in
>>>> 2010 there was not a state that didn't have over 20% obesity! What
>>>> the heck are we doing, people?
>>>
>>> And that's the problem. We just don't know. Lots of finger
>>> pointing! But nobody knows.

>>
>> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well documented.
>> One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and which is the egg,
>> but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven behavioral strategies
>> to solve the problem. They're all basically eat less, eat better, and
>> move more. We eat more, we eat poorer quality food, and we move less
>> than we used to.

>
> exactly.
>
> I was mistaken about the program being Dr. Fuhrman, it was Dr. Hyman. It's
> funny how now we have all these TV doctors, and they're all pretty much
> sayign the same thing; eat real food, not processed crap. move more. stay
> away from sugar and HFCS. Maximize greens and cruciferous veggies.
> (of course, they then pitch their own products while they're at it, but
> still...)


Except that if you have a thyroid problem, and that is ever increasing in
the general population, crucifers should be limited.




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On Thu, 9 May 2013 07:26:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> Except that if you have a thyroid problem, and that is ever increasing in
> the general population, crucifers should be limited.


I take pills, but the Dr has never mentioned avoiding or limiting
crucifers. Maybe they need to be limited for people who eat them in
vast amounts, but it seems like normal consumption is fine.

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Julie Bove wrote:

> > proven behavioral strategies to solve the problem.
> > They're all basically eat less, eat better, and move more.


> Oh dear GAWD! Don't give me that. Please! Please! I think if I ate less
> than I do know I would probably starve. For sure I would be malnourished.
> I already have to take handfuls of supplements each morning and night for
> what is lacking in my diet. On a really good day I can take in about 1,000
> calories per day. Once in a great while 1,100. But that's really rare.
> Most days I am lucky to be able to get in 800. That's two meals, one of
> which is toast, 6 days a week. And a bed time snack. Lately I have been
> having extreme trouble with that snack putting it off later and later and
> finally resorting to eating a few Saltines because I am just not hungry!


Speaking for, I believe, a great many other RFCers, I can say that the gulf
between your world and ours is enormous and will never be bridged in our
lifetimes.


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Julie Bove wrote:

>>> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well
>>> documented. One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and
>>> which is the egg, but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven
>>> behavioral strategies to solve the problem. They're all basically
>>> eat less, eat better, and move more. We eat more, we eat poorer
>>> quality food, and we move less than we used to.

>>
>> exactly.
>>
>> I was mistaken about the program being Dr. Fuhrman, it was Dr.
>> Hyman. It's funny how now we have all these TV doctors, and they're
>> all pretty much sayign the same thing; eat real food, not processed
>> crap. move more. stay away from sugar and HFCS. Maximize greens
>> and cruciferous veggies. (of course, they then pitch their own
>> products while they're at it, but still...)

>
> Except that if you have a thyroid problem, and that is ever
> increasing in the general population, crucifers should be limited.


And, Julie, one - not you, "one" - should ask why you have a thyroid
problem in the first place. You should also ask, if thyroid problems
are on the rise and so is obesity, is there a connection between the
two.

-S-



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barbie gee wrote:

> So why do we now have so many suffering from a "metabolic disorder"?
> How did they get morbidly obese in the first place?
> Have human genetics changed in the past 50 years?


That's the $64,000 question. IMHO, a lot of it is traceable to the
people who make the food they sell us to eat. If they can find a way to
make a food more profitable, why shouldn't they? I agree with them -
it's up to us to say where our priorities lie by choosing to eat what's
good for us.

One could argue until the cows come home about the role of government in
regulating what we eat - suffice it to say that, whether or not one
would like the government to have a hand in this, one doesn't strictly
need the government to do that - vote with your pocketbook at the
grocery store, which is what I do.

-S-


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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 May 2013 07:26:44 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Except that if you have a thyroid problem, and that is ever increasing in
>> the general population, crucifers should be limited.

>
> I take pills, but the Dr has never mentioned avoiding or limiting
> crucifers. Maybe they need to be limited for people who eat them in
> vast amounts, but it seems like normal consumption is fine.


I have never had a Dr.(except for the gastroenterologist and allergist) tell
me anything about diet except for one who is no longer there. And he gave
me a bunch of useless information like to eat lean ground beef. I have
found that Drs. do not understand the interactions of medications or foods.
I have had prescriptions sent for me that are contraindicated for the other
medical conditions that I have. Cruciferous vegetables and some forms of
soy are goitrogens. I have mentioned here many times how after eliminating
those from my diet, I am no longer on thyroid meds. And I *was* eating soy
in vast amounts, thinking it was healthy.




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"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>>> No, that's not true. There are plenty of reasons, all well
>>>> documented. One can speculate on which reason is the chicken and
>>>> which is the egg, but that doesn't mean there aren't already proven
>>>> behavioral strategies to solve the problem. They're all basically
>>>> eat less, eat better, and move more. We eat more, we eat poorer
>>>> quality food, and we move less than we used to.
>>>
>>> exactly.
>>>
>>> I was mistaken about the program being Dr. Fuhrman, it was Dr.
>>> Hyman. It's funny how now we have all these TV doctors, and they're
>>> all pretty much sayign the same thing; eat real food, not processed
>>> crap. move more. stay away from sugar and HFCS. Maximize greens
>>> and cruciferous veggies. (of course, they then pitch their own
>>> products while they're at it, but still...)

>>
>> Except that if you have a thyroid problem, and that is ever
>> increasing in the general population, crucifers should be limited.

>
> And, Julie, one - not you, "one" - should ask why you have a thyroid
> problem in the first place. You should also ask, if thyroid problems
> are on the rise and so is obesity, is there a connection between the
> two.
>
> -S-


I have asked and they do not know. Although I am no longer on meds for my
thyroid, I do have a goiter. Both of my parents have thyroid problems. My
husband has one. His dad had a severe one as did his dad's mom. And now my
daughter has one. I am the one who suspected that she did and I took her to
my Endocrinologist. It is a good thing that I did. He said that we caught
that and her pre-diabetes early. I could see the signs. Sadly, her other
Drs. did not and I couldn't even get them to test her for these things. The
Drs. at Children's did take note though and said that there was a problem
and she needed a follow-up. Only then did her other Drs. take note but they
did not give her the proper treatment.


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"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> > proven behavioral strategies to solve the problem.
>> > They're all basically eat less, eat better, and move more.

>
>> Oh dear GAWD! Don't give me that. Please! Please! I think if I ate
>> less
>> than I do know I would probably starve. For sure I would be
>> malnourished.
>> I already have to take handfuls of supplements each morning and night for
>> what is lacking in my diet. On a really good day I can take in about
>> 1,000
>> calories per day. Once in a great while 1,100. But that's really rare.
>> Most days I am lucky to be able to get in 800. That's two meals, one of
>> which is toast, 6 days a week. And a bed time snack. Lately I have been
>> having extreme trouble with that snack putting it off later and later and
>> finally resorting to eating a few Saltines because I am just not hungry!

>
> Speaking for, I believe, a great many other RFCers, I can say that the
> gulf
> between your world and ours is enormous and will never be bridged in our
> lifetimes.


Great! Just proving my point. One size does not fit all. I just dislike
it when people give a pat answer. Well! If only you do _____, then you
won't have the problem! Or, if I did it, YOU can! Might work for you.
Does not fit all.


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Default Sugar Free Chocolate from Cocoa Powder

"W" > wrote in message
...
> I would like to make my own sugar free chocolate from cocoa powder. I

don't
> want any milk due to lactose intolerance. I don't want any flour, and I
> definitely don't want any sugar. I will use Stevia and Erythritol (a

sugar
> alcohol that metabolizes in a way that is almost zero calories) as the
> sweeteners. Are there any good recipes out there for this?
>
> I have found some decent chocolates online that match the above general

list
> of ingredients, but they are extremely expensive. I'm looking to lower
> cost and also learn about chocolate making.


For anyone who cares about the original question, I ended up going with the
following:

1) I melted Ghirardelli Premium Baking Chocolate in a double boiler. This
chocolate is unsweetened 100% cacao. They already did the messy and
difficult steps like mixing in the butter. There is no flour, no
lactose/milk, and no sweeteners artificial or not.

2) I add erythritol and stevia, and I'm still experimenting with the best
combinations.

3) Stir and pour into chocolate mold.

If you like dark chocolate, it's quite yummy, and it causes no indigestion
from lactose and no rise in blood sugar.

As someone else correctly pointed out, the erythritol crystalizes. The
commercial chocolates I have purchased that are nearly identical to the
formula above -such as Lucienne's Sugar Free 83% Dark Chocolate - do NOT
have this crystalized erythritol. So apparently there is some way to mix
in the sugar without having it crystalize.

I was able to mix the erythritol into coconut oil and bring it to about 180
degrees F and this melted it completely. Unfortunately, when you melt in
the chocolate, it crystalizes again. I also note that the data sheets for
erythritol indicate a melting temperature of 120 degrees. I was not able
to duplicate that result at all. It would be great if true and would
simplify the task of avoiding crystalizing.

Does anyone have an insight on how to properly melt erythritol without
having it crystalize when cooled with other ingredients?

--
W


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