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Old 02-02-2013, 02:00 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
smaller tables with a big sign out front.

BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
.....NOW!

nb



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Old 02-02-2013, 02:17 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

notbob wrote in
:

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?



If there's a surcharge, then you shouldn't have to tip.

Bottom line, the USA should pay their workers the rate they are entitled
to, as the rest of the (civilised) world does.... instead of being the
cheap assholes they are and paying "minimum wage" where the worker has to
survive on tips to live.

If you pay your workers peanuts, you get monkeys doing the job.

--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

Success isn't so difficult.
Just bite off more than you can chew,
then go do it.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:48 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On 2 Feb 2013 13:00:23 GMT, notbob wrote:

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
smaller tables with a big sign out front.

BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
....NOW!

nb



Surcharge? No. Tip? Yes.

If the surcharge is going to the house, I'd walk out. If going to the
wait staff, I'd just pay it and not leave a tip since that is the tip.
While I'm of the nature that it should be my choice how much to tip,
there are valid reasons to charge for the larger parties. The reason
is, left to their own devices, they usually don't tip much at all. The
larger the group, the more meager the tip.

You can make arguments both ways, such as paying a good wage and
eliminating the tip. As long as you know up front, I don't have a
problem with the 18% add on. Every year at our Christmas party (about
40 people) they add the 18%. Unlike the cheapo pastor, the bill is
paid with additional tip added.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:54 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On 2 Feb 2013 13:00:23 GMT, notbob wrote:

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

....

I think not too. If any restaurant I ever went charged an automatic
"tip" then not only would that be ALL they got as a tip (I typically
tip very well too, more than 20%) it would also be ther last time I
ever patronized them!

John Kuthe...
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:20 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On 2013-02-02, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If the surcharge is going to the house, I'd walk out. If going to the
wait staff, I'd just pay it and not leave a tip since that is the tip.


I don't care how the establishment justifies it or works it out. Not
my problem. It's merely an expense to me.

While I'm of the nature that it should be my choice how much to tip,
there are valid reasons to charge for the larger parties. The reason
is, left to their own devices, they usually don't tip much at all. The
larger the group, the more meager the tip.


That's a social/psychological issue and I tend to agree. I've seen
this social dynamic in action too many time. Makes ya' wanna knock
some of yer fellow diners upside the head. My solution, I don't dine
with those ppl.

This entire issue could easily be solved if the establishment DID put
the charge up front. Large block letters hanging over the door. YOU
WILL BE CHARGED....! But no, most establishments hide it, like a
dirty littel secret, then spring it at the last moment. 'Well, we
want your business, but we want you to pay extra if...' It's a cheat,
a con, and it's as slimey as the non-tippers in groups who hide behind
the anonymity of numbers.

I figure it this way. One or two ppl, ppl feel exposed, vulnerable,
'Everyone will know I'm a blackguard if I stiff the server', so they
pay a decent tip. But, get in a group, where there are many, and ppl
get all devious and tightfisted, 'No one will know it's me who is
scurvy dirtbag of the lowest order'. I've had fights with ppl like
this. In fact I had a boss who absolutely refused any kind of tip at
all. "NO! I don't tip". What an ass! We knew we'd hafta pony up to
cover his shortage. It got so I jes declined his invites.

Carry on.

nb



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Old 02-02-2013, 03:31 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You can make arguments both ways, such as paying a good wage and
eliminating the tip. As long as you know up front, I don't have a
problem with the 18% add on. Every year at our Christmas party (about
40 people) they add the 18%. Unlike the cheapo pastor, the bill is
paid with additional tip added.


I don't eat out often but when I do I always tip 25-30 percent. I know
that's high but I also realize that waitresses get paid very little and
count on tips. I appreciate their care (if it's good) so I don't mind
paying that.

If I wanted to save money, I'd cook at home for much cheaper, even without
the tip.

Gary
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:57 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 7:17:38 AM UTC-6, I'm back wrote:


If you pay your workers peanuts, you get monkeys doing the job.

No. If you pay your workers peanuts, you get elephants. If you pay
your workers *bananas*, you get monkeys. Don't little Australian
children learn these things?

This incident happened, yeah, you guessed it, in St. Louis. It's about
2 blocks from where The Bonobos were headquartered. Speaking of elephants,
that pastor bears some resemblance.
http://www.heavy.com/regions/2013/02...-need-to-know/

--

Peter

--Bryan
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:27 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On 02/02/2013 9:31 AM, Gary wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You can make arguments both ways, such as paying a good wage and
eliminating the tip. As long as you know up front, I don't have a
problem with the 18% add on. Every year at our Christmas party (about
40 people) they add the 18%. Unlike the cheapo pastor, the bill is
paid with additional tip added.


I don't eat out often but when I do I always tip 25-30 percent. I know
that's high but I also realize that waitresses get paid very little and
count on tips. I appreciate their care (if it's good) so I don't mind
paying that.


You're right. It is high.


If I wanted to save money, I'd cook at home for much cheaper, even without
the tip.

Sorry, but I don't buy into the argument that if you can afford to eat
out you can afford to pay a larger tip. I am not into playing Mr.
Bigshot and expecting wait staff to jump when I snap my fingers. They
aren't trained dogs. The taking of orders and delivery of food is part
of the service that you get when you eat in a restaurant. If I have to
pay extra to get a smile and the patronizing tip soliciting behaviour I
will take the food without the smile and save the money.




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Old 02-02-2013, 04:42 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

notbob wrote:
Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
smaller tables with a big sign out front.

BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
....NOW!




If there's a surcharge (which ****es me off), I don't leave a tip. I
tend to order cheap, but I'm a big tipper, so the waitress gets less
this way.

They must have each ordered just a coffee or iced tea. And then
probably sat there taking up a big table for 90 minutes. If the place
was almost empty, that's OK. If it was busy, manager should've asked
them (after about 20 minutes) to order some food or leave.

Bob
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:44 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 08:48:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2 Feb 2013 13:00:23 GMT, notbob wrote:

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
smaller tables with a big sign out front.

BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
....NOW!

At least you got that part right... and tell them to never come back
as a final fare-thee-well.

Surcharge? No. Tip? Yes.

If the surcharge is going to the house, I'd walk out. If going to the
wait staff, I'd just pay it and not leave a tip since that is the tip.


Exactly. At least the places I've eaten at that have the policy have
the presence of mind to call it a "gratuity", not a surcharge. You're
free to tip more and we often do when we see the staff was paying
close attention to the table.

While I'm of the nature that it should be my choice how much to tip,
there are valid reasons to charge for the larger parties. The reason
is, left to their own devices, they usually don't tip much at all. The
larger the group, the more meager the tip.


As the money "taker", you're lucky to get what you need for the food
itself and often left holding the bag for tip. That's why just
splitting the bill evenly works better (no matter what the individuals
order). If alcohol is involved, the drinkers are responsible for
their own bar tabs and if anyone doesn't like that financial
arrangement, they are free to decline to join in.

You can make arguments both ways, such as paying a good wage and
eliminating the tip. As long as you know up front, I don't have a
problem with the 18% add on. Every year at our Christmas party (about
40 people) they add the 18%. Unlike the cheapo pastor, the bill is
paid with additional tip added.


Agreed on all points and 15-20% is what any normal person in their
right mind gives and more when the server is really paying attention
to you. Most servers do not have company benefits and live off their
tips. Cheap skates like NB and that pastor shouldn't be allowed to
eat out.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.


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Old 02-02-2013, 04:47 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Surcharge (auto-tip) Yay? Nay?

Dave Smith wrote:

On 02/02/2013 9:31 AM, Gary wrote:


I don't eat out often but when I do I always tip 25-30 percent. I know
that's high but I also realize that waitresses get paid very little and
count on tips. I appreciate their care (if it's good) so I don't mind
paying that.


You're right. It is high.


If I wanted to save money, I'd cook at home for much cheaper, even without
the tip.

Sorry, but I don't buy into the argument that if you can afford to eat
out you can afford to pay a larger tip. I am not into playing Mr.
Bigshot and expecting wait staff to jump when I snap my fingers. They
aren't trained dogs. The taking of orders and delivery of food is part
of the service that you get when you eat in a restaurant. If I have to
pay extra to get a smile and the patronizing tip soliciting behaviour I
will take the food without the smile and save the money.


That's not me, Dave. I don't play the bigshot,etc. The waitress has no idea
what her tip will be until I leave. I am very polite and non-demanding at a
restaurant but since I am being catered to, I have no problem leaving a
slightly larger tip.

For example... say for a party of 2-3 people and the bill comes to $100.
Rather than pay $118, I will pay $125-130. We are talking a small
difference of 7-12 dollars extra here for a tip to help out a good waitress
who probably makes about $3 per hour plus tips.

Your bill would be at least $118 (with an 18% tip). Will it kill you to add
a few more dollars and make someones day?

IMO, people that are tight with tipping should stay home and cook.

Gary
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:49 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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On 2 Feb 2013 14:20:47 GMT, notbob wrote:


This entire issue could easily be solved if the establishment DID put
the charge up front. Large block letters hanging over the door. YOU
WILL BE CHARGED....! But no, most establishments hide it, like a
dirty littel secret, then spring it at the last moment. 'Well, we
want your business, but we want you to pay extra if...' It's a cheat,
a con, and it's as slimey as the non-tippers in groups who hide behind
the anonymity of numbers.


Automatic gratuity for parties over x people is usually in plain
letters at the bottom of the menu. Most people haven't just fallen
off the haywagon; so if an automatic gratuity charge is something you
can't deal with - ask to see a menu before you put your butt in the
chair or call first and ASK the host/hostess about their large group
policy.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:54 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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On 2/2/2013 8:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2 Feb 2013 13:00:23 GMT, notbob wrote:

Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.

Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?

I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
smaller tables with a big sign out front.

BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
....NOW!

nb



Surcharge? No. Tip? Yes.

If the surcharge is going to the house, I'd walk out. If going to the
wait staff, I'd just pay it and not leave a tip since that is the tip.
While I'm of the nature that it should be my choice how much to tip,
there are valid reasons to charge for the larger parties. The reason
is, left to their own devices, they usually don't tip much at all. The
larger the group, the more meager the tip.

Absolutely. On the flip side of having been a server, I've been out
with large groups where they offered one check and added the gratuity.
Seems okay in theory. The problem with that was some people chowed down
on appetizers and ordered the most expensive items on the lunch menu.
This should be split (monetarily) equally among the guests? Nope.

Jill
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:10 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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On 2/2/2013 9:20 AM, notbob wrote:
In fact I had a boss who absolutely refused any kind of tip at
all. "NO! I don't tip". What an ass! We knew we'd hafta pony up to
cover his shortage. It got so I jes declined his invites.


I used to go to lunch occasionally at one restaurant with a small group
(4 people) of co-workers. One woman *never* tipped. She ran the server
around like crazy and this wasn't even a large group. We usually had
separate checks. One of us us would create a ruse when we paid and were
leaving. We'd slip some money under this woman's plate for her share of
the tip. There's nothing worse than going out to eat with a cheapskate
who won't tip even for excellent service.

Jill
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:10 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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On 02/02/2013 10:47 AM, Gary wrote:

For example... say for a party of 2-3 people and the bill comes to $100.
Rather than pay $118, I will pay $125-130. We are talking a small
difference of 7-12 dollars extra here for a tip to help out a good waitress
who probably makes about $3 per hour plus tips.

Your bill would be at least $118 (with an 18% tip). Will it kill you to add
a few more dollars and make someones day?


Okay... turn it around..... if it is a small difference it shouldn't
affect the server if you don't leave it.


IMO, people that are tight with tipping should stay home and cook.



I don't have a problem with the amount so much as I do with the
institution of tipping, the idea that some people should be so poorly
paid that they have to depend on the generosity of their customers to
make a decent living. I am all in favour of a system like they have in
places like the Netherlands, Germany and (most of) France where tax and
service are included in the menu price, so what you see is what you pay.
If you order 6 items ate 5 Euros, your bill is 30 Euros.... no extras
for tax, no calculating what is appropriate for a tip.


Bear mind that a tip, or gratuity, by definition, is voluntary. Some
people in the business have come to expect it, a sort of entitlement.
Not only that, the expect to be tipped a percentage on the entire bill,
including the tax. Worse yet, they argue that because of inflation the
percentage should be higher, suggesting a minimum of 20%.

Then we hear the argument that if you can afford to go out for dinner
you can afford to leave a big tip. Screw that. If they want to jack up
their prices with outrageous markups I am already paying a lot for the
luxury of going out to eat. For instance, we went to a place last
summer where they charge $14 for glass of wine, about the same price as
a whole bottle of that particular wine. That means a 500-600% markup on
the wine.


I am supposed to pay 15% on top of that for a service...... $12 to pour
the wine into a glass and walk 20 feet to the table?? Hold it.... no,
that is not enough..... it is an expensive restaurant, and if I can
afford to pay their high prices I should be able to afford 20%.. Not
when I am already being gouged. Sorry, but that is a racket.






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