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On 2/5/2013 9:59 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> beats living on convict island.

>>
>> Number of people in jail:
>>
>> #1 United States: 715 per 100,000
>> ....
>> ....
>> ....
>> ....
>> #73 Australia: 116 per 100,000
>>
>> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
>>
>>

>
>
> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
> debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
> revolution so they started sending them to Australia.


That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of the
ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's.
He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now Perth
Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out very
differently for the McQuown's...

Jill
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/5/2013 9:59 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> beats living on convict island.
>>>
>>> Number of people in jail:
>>>
>>> #1 United States: 715 per 100,000
>>> ....
>>> ....
>>> ....
>>> ....
>>> #73 Australia: 116 per 100,000
>>>
>>> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>> debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>> revolution so they started sending them to Australia.

>
> That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured at
> the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son were
> transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia planter
> as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of the ship died.
> The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's. He changed the
> course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now Perth Amboy, so named
> by the Scots). From there they made their way to Pennsylvania. They
> received land grants from William Penn and became farmers. If the Captain
> hadn't died things would have turned out very differently for the
> McQuown's...


I think they were probably captured by the English.


--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

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On 2/6/2013 7:53 AM, John J wrote:
>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>> >>debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>> >>revolution so they started sending them to Australia.
>> >
>> >That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>> >at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>> >were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>> >planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of the
>> >ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's.
>> >He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now Perth
>> >Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>> >Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
>> >farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out very
>> >differently for the McQuown's...


> Great to have that kind of information about ancestors that far back.
>
> -- John


My great-uncle Boyd did the research. Pre-computers! Based on bits and
pieces he'd heard over the years, he combed through historical society
records, old letters, church parish records of marriages, births and
deaths. It took him 20+ years to put the family history together. It
must have been a painstakingly slow undertaking.

What puzzles me is did the guy (John McQuown) leave a wife behind in
Scotland? Or had she died? If she didn't die, did she somehow join
them in the colonies later? He and his son were *both* captured and
transported. In the family history there is mention of him having a
wife in Pennsylvania. Obviously she wasn't captured in the battle. The
guy could have been a bigamist I doubt it, but I guess I'll never know.

Jill
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On 2/6/2013 7:52 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote


>> That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>> at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>> were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>> planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>> the ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the
>> McQuown's. He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy,
>> NJ (now Perth Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made
>> their way to Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William
>> Penn and became farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have
>> turned out very differently for the McQuown's...

>
> I think they were probably captured by the English.
>

You beat me to it!

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On 2/6/2013 7:52 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2/5/2013 9:59 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> beats living on convict island.
>>>>
>>>> Number of people in jail:
>>>>
>>>> #1 United States: 715 per 100,000
>>>> ....
>>>> ....
>>>> ....
>>>> ....
>>>> #73 Australia: 116 per 100,000
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>> debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>> revolution so they started sending them to Australia.

>>
>> That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>> at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>> were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>> planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>> the ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the
>> McQuown's. He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy,
>> NJ (now Perth Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made
>> their way to Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William
>> Penn and became farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have
>> turned out very differently for the McQuown's...

>
> I think they were probably captured by the English.
>

My bad! It was (yet another) religious conflict.

Jill




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On 2/6/2013 8:47 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/6/2013 7:53 AM, John J wrote:
>>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>>> >>debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>>> >>revolution so they started sending them to Australia.
>>> >
>>> >That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>>> >at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>>> >were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>>> >planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>>> the
>>> >ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's.
>>> >He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now
>>> Perth
>>> >Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>>> >Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
>>> >farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out very
>>> >differently for the McQuown's...

>
>> Great to have that kind of information about ancestors that far back.
>>
>> -- John

>
> My great-uncle Boyd did the research. Pre-computers! Based on bits
> and pieces he'd heard over the years, he combed through historical
> society records, old letters, church parish records of marriages,
> births and deaths. It took him 20+ years to put the family history
> together. It must have been a painstakingly slow undertaking.
>
> What puzzles me is did the guy (John McQuown) leave a wife behind in
> Scotland? Or had she died? If she didn't die, did she somehow join
> them in the colonies later? He and his son were *both* captured and
> transported. In the family history there is mention of him having a
> wife in Pennsylvania. Obviously she wasn't captured in the battle.
> The guy could have been a bigamist I doubt it, but I guess I'll
> never know.
>
> Jill

Jill, you may be interested in this URL:

http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/t...bridge1679.htm

Your ancestor appears to have been a member of the Scottish Covenanters'
who rebelled against Charles II. It wasn't even just the English who won
the battle but the Royal Army plus Scottish troops from near Glasgow.

From the URL.

«
The royal army was further reinforced as it advanced towards Glasgow by
troops from Scotland. (The commander) Monmouth had the support of
several able military leaders, including Claverhouse, the earl of
Linlithgow, the earl of Airlie, Lord Mar, and the earl of Home.
»



--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

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On 2013-02-06, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> For some, minimum wage would be a comfort, but for many, it would be
> a pay cut. I don't see most restaurants paying big bucks.


When I worked at LLNL, we had a young tech who was going to college
part time (who wasn't) and working at an upscale resto in SF,
evenings. The kid was rolling in it.

nb
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:09:21 -0500, Nancy Young <replyto@inemail>
wrote:

>On 2/5/2013 11:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I bet many waiters don't want to get a "decent wage" as they can do
>> better on tips. Depends on the particular restaurant, but many make a
>> very good living, better than most salaried people.

>
>I've been a regular at a number of restaurants over the years.
>The people who wait on me are not stupid, they aren't indentured
>servants, waiting is not the only career they are capable of doing
>successfully. When they leave a job, they go wait or tend bar
>elsewhere, often. They have houses, cars, families. Maybe they are
>working their way through college.
>
>In the meantime, I leave a good tip, we all get what we came for
>and people don't need to wring their hands in despair for them.
>Geez, if it takes me an hour to eat (rarely), they make minimum
>wage just off me ... and they have a bunch more tables.
>
>nancy

I'm just adding on here, Nancy. Different people appreciate the
surroundings and work in different kinds of jobs. Some people like
working in offices. Other go bonkers if confined in nice clothes in
an environment like that. Some people like a job with changing
circumstances. All jobs need someone to do them. The people who do
them should be respected for the service they provide. I'd better
stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)
Janet US
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On 2/6/2013 9:57 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:09:21 -0500, Nancy Young <replyto@inemail>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/5/2013 11:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> I bet many waiters don't want to get a "decent wage" as they can do
>>> better on tips. Depends on the particular restaurant, but many make a
>>> very good living, better than most salaried people.

>>
>> I've been a regular at a number of restaurants over the years.
>> The people who wait on me are not stupid, they aren't indentured
>> servants, waiting is not the only career they are capable of doing
>> successfully. When they leave a job, they go wait or tend bar
>> elsewhere, often. They have houses, cars, families. Maybe they are
>> working their way through college.
>>
>> In the meantime, I leave a good tip, we all get what we came for
>> and people don't need to wring their hands in despair for them.
>> Geez, if it takes me an hour to eat (rarely), they make minimum
>> wage just off me ... and they have a bunch more tables.


> I'm just adding on here, Nancy. Different people appreciate the
> surroundings and work in different kinds of jobs. Some people like
> working in offices. Other go bonkers if confined in nice clothes in
> an environment like that. Some people like a job with changing
> circumstances. All jobs need someone to do them. The people who do
> them should be respected for the service they provide.


Well put! I spent most of my working career hunched over a computer,
it's not for everyone. I know waiting tables has its aggravations,
but I don't know of a job that doesn't. If someone hates it so much
because of the pay structure, move on.

> I'd better stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)


(laugh) nancy

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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:09:21 -0500, Nancy Young <replyto@inemail>
wrote:

>On 2/5/2013 11:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I bet many waiters don't want to get a "decent wage" as they can do
>> better on tips. Depends on the particular restaurant, but many make a
>> very good living, better than most salaried people.

>
>I've been a regular at a number of restaurants over the years.
>The people who wait on me are not stupid, they aren't indentured
>servants, waiting is not the only career they are capable of doing
>successfully. When they leave a job, they go wait or tend bar
>elsewhere, often. They have houses, cars, families. Maybe they are
>working their way through college.
>
>In the meantime, I leave a good tip, we all get what we came for
>and people don't need to wring their hands in despair for them.
>Geez, if it takes me an hour to eat (rarely), they make minimum
>wage just off me ... and they have a bunch more tables.
>
>nancy


The people who regularly perfom service jobs at the golf courses and
ski lodges where I live make very good money just from tips, the
servers and bar tenders clear well over a Grand a week just in tips.
And a service person who is willing to work never has to worry about
getting laid off and being without a job. Several of my neighbors
work at the local resorts all year. I'm asked all the time if I'd mow
at the golf courses, I've thought about driving a tractor for $25/hr
but then I'd not have time to mow my own, and I'd earn less than the
servers at the dining room.


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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:57:55 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> The people who do
> them should be respected for the service they provide.


ABSOLUTELY... and not underpaid. I doubt a single person here has
ever turned down a raise and yet they think it's okay for servers
national minimum wage not to have risen in the last 20 years.

> I'd better stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)



--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
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On 06/02/2013 11:05 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:


> Remove tipping and there'd be zero servers... servers take home fatter
> pay checks just from tips than many professional's salaries.


Yet, we are supposed to feel sorry for them and tip them because their
hourly rate is so low. I am trying to understand the economic argument
against paying them a good hourly rate or including the service in the
menu price and paying it directly to the server as a form of commission.
If people insist that they always tip 15-25% I don't understand the
argument that has to be left to the customer. Apparently they are paying
that much anyway.

Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
topping up wine glasses.


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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

snip
>
>Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
>behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
>topping up wine glasses.
>

If they didn't do that for you, you'd be yammering about the poor
service you get. They aren't soliciting tips by doing that, they are
simply being attentive to you. You are suspicious because you're sure
they are out to get into your wallet. Do you keep your calculator
next to your plate?
Janet US
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
> behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
> topping up wine glasses.
>


I like it when they keep mine full, so grow a pair and tell them not
to fill your glass.

--
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:35:41 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:57:55 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> The people who do
>> them should be respected for the service they provide.

>
>ABSOLUTELY... and not underpaid. I doubt a single person here has
>ever turned down a raise and yet they think it's okay for servers
>national minimum wage not to have risen in the last 20 years.
>
>> I'd better stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)


Every server I've ever asked would rather work for just tips and no
wage than for a salary not much more than minimum wage. In the late
'60s the bottom fell out of the CA economy, no jobs to be had... I
took a job driving a Yellow Cab... hated the job but back then I made
over $20/hr in tips. Four short distance fares an hour was common and
no one tipped less than $5... a fare from downtown LA to the airport
brought a $25 tip, and within ten minutes I'd get a return fare to
somewhere in LA, same kind of tip. The wage from Yellow Cab was non
existant, less than $2/hr... if someone were willing to hustle they
could make very good money driving a Yellow Cab. Each cab was fitted
with a two way radio with four channels, changed channels with cab
zone location... most all fares were via radio, they preferred drivers
not pick fares up off the street. Even as a child I delivered
newspapers and groceries by bicycle, no one would do those jobs if not
for tipping.


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On 06/02/2013 1:33 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> snip
>>
>> Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
>> behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
>> topping up wine glasses.
>>

> If they didn't do that for you, you'd be yammering about the poor
> service you get.


Would I? I have been in countries where tipping is not expected and
had great service. If I have problems with service I won't be back.
With the tipping system, I am still expected to tip.


> They aren't soliciting tips by doing that, they are
> simply being attentive to you. You are suspicious because you're sure
> they are out to get into your wallet.



You don't think that there are tip soliciting behaviours? I guess you
were never a server.


> Do you keep your calculator
> next to your plate?
>



Yeah right. I have said that I am willing to pay higher prices that
include service being paid to the servers.

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Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> I'm just adding on here, Nancy. Different people appreciate the
> surroundings and work in different kinds of jobs. Some people like
> working in offices. Other go bonkers if confined in nice clothes in
> an environment like that. Some people like a job with changing
> circumstances. All jobs need someone to do them. The people who do
> them should be respected for the service they provide. I'd better
> stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)
> Janet US


And from the movie, Caddyshack, "The world needs ditchdiggers."
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 11:33:14 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>snip
>>
>>Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
>>behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
>>topping up wine glasses.
>>

>If they didn't do that for you, you'd be yammering about the poor
>service you get. They aren't soliciting tips by doing that, they are
>simply being attentive to you. You are suspicious because you're sure
>they are out to get into your wallet. Do you keep your calculator
>next to your plate?
>Janet US


Dave will never understand, cheapos are incapable of understanding
economics... they want good service and good product, but low prices.
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Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> snip
> >
> >Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
> >behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
> >topping up wine glasses.
> >

> If they didn't do that for you, you'd be yammering about the poor
> service you get. They aren't soliciting tips by doing that, they are
> simply being attentive to you. You are suspicious because you're sure
> they are out to get into your wallet. Do you keep your calculator
> next to your plate?
> Janet US


No. That actually bothered me too. It wasn't about someone going for extra
tips. What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
annoying to me and probably most diners.

Gary
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:

> What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
> and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
> annoying to me and probably most diners.
>

Not if you're used to dining out.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.


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sf wrote:
>
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
> > What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
> > and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
> > annoying to me and probably most diners.
> >

> Not if you're used to dining out.


And I'm not. I rarely do. I prefer to eat at home.
It was like "big brother" watching over me, just for a meal.
Give me a break.

Gary
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On 2/6/2013 9:29 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 2/6/2013 8:47 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 2/6/2013 7:53 AM, John J wrote:
>>>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>>>> >>debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>>>> >>revolution so they started sending them to Australia.
>>>> >
>>>> >That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>>>> >at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>>>> >were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>>>> >planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>>>> the
>>>> >ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's.
>>>> >He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now
>>>> Perth
>>>> >Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>>>> >Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
>>>> >farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out very
>>>> >differently for the McQuown's...

>>
>>> Great to have that kind of information about ancestors that far back.
>>>
>>> -- John

>>
>> My great-uncle Boyd did the research. Pre-computers! Based on bits
>> and pieces he'd heard over the years, he combed through historical
>> society records, old letters, church parish records of marriages,
>> births and deaths. It took him 20+ years to put the family history
>> together. It must have been a painstakingly slow undertaking.
>>
>> What puzzles me is did the guy (John McQuown) leave a wife behind in
>> Scotland? Or had she died? If she didn't die, did she somehow join
>> them in the colonies later? He and his son were *both* captured and
>> transported. In the family history there is mention of him having a
>> wife in Pennsylvania. Obviously she wasn't captured in the battle.
>> The guy could have been a bigamist I doubt it, but I guess I'll
>> never know.
>>
>> Jill

> Jill, you may be interested in this URL:
>
> http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/t...bridge1679.htm
>
> Your ancestor appears to have been a member of the Scottish Covenanters'
> who rebelled against Charles II. It wasn't even just the English who won
> the battle but the Royal Army plus Scottish troops from near Glasgow.
>
> From the URL.
>
> «
> The royal army was further reinforced as it advanced towards Glasgow by
> troops from Scotland. (The commander) Monmouth had the support of
> several able military leaders, including Claverhouse, the earl of
> Linlithgow, the earl of Airlie, Lord Mar, and the earl of Home.
> »
>

I've read all about it, but thanks for the link, Jim.

Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
should rest...

Jill
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On 2/6/2013 6:16 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/6/2013 9:29 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>> On 2/6/2013 8:47 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> On 2/6/2013 7:53 AM, John J wrote:
>>>>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>>>>> >>debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>>>>> >>revolution so they started sending them to Australia.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots
>>>>> captured
>>>>> >at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>>>>> >were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a
>>>>> Virginia
>>>>> >planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>>>>> the
>>>>> >ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the
>>>>> McQuown's.
>>>>> >He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now
>>>>> Perth
>>>>> >Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>>>>> >Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and
>>>>> became
>>>>> >farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out
>>>>> very
>>>>> >differently for the McQuown's...
>>>
>>>> Great to have that kind of information about ancestors that far back.
>>>>
>>>> -- John
>>>
>>> My great-uncle Boyd did the research. Pre-computers! Based on bits
>>> and pieces he'd heard over the years, he combed through historical
>>> society records, old letters, church parish records of marriages,
>>> births and deaths. It took him 20+ years to put the family history
>>> together. It must have been a painstakingly slow undertaking.
>>>
>>> What puzzles me is did the guy (John McQuown) leave a wife behind in
>>> Scotland? Or had she died? If she didn't die, did she somehow join
>>> them in the colonies later? He and his son were *both* captured and
>>> transported. In the family history there is mention of him having a
>>> wife in Pennsylvania. Obviously she wasn't captured in the battle.
>>> The guy could have been a bigamist I doubt it, but I guess I'll
>>> never know.
>>>
>>> Jill

>> Jill, you may be interested in this URL:
>>
>> http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/t...bridge1679.htm
>>
>> Your ancestor appears to have been a member of the Scottish Covenanters'
>> who rebelled against Charles II. It wasn't even just the English who won
>> the battle but the Royal Army plus Scottish troops from near Glasgow.
>>
>> From the URL.
>>
>> «
>> The royal army was further reinforced as it advanced towards Glasgow by
>> troops from Scotland. (The commander) Monmouth had the support of
>> several able military leaders, including Claverhouse, the earl of
>> Linlithgow, the earl of Airlie, Lord Mar, and the earl of Home.
>> »
>>

> I've read all about it, but thanks for the link, Jim.
>
> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
> thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
> should rest...
>
> Jill

Well, the winners write the history, even if Richard III wasn't as bad
as his reputation! I don't really accept Josephine Tey's whitewash.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:12:26 -0500, Gary > wrote:

> sf wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:
> >
> > > What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
> > > and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
> > > annoying to me and probably most diners.
> > >

> > Not if you're used to dining out.

>
> And I'm not. I rarely do. I prefer to eat at home.
> It was like "big brother" watching over me, just for a meal.
> Give me a break.
>

Don't spaz out over little things like that. If you think they are
paying too much attention to you, tell them you'd like less attentive
service and ask them to put the water pitcher on the table so you can
serve yourself if you're ever forced into an uncomfortable social
situation like that again... of course, your dining partner may have a
different view of the situation and you might be shooting yourself in
the foot if you want to get lucky that night.


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
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jmcquown > wrote:

>On 2/5/2013 9:59 PM, Dave Smith wrote:


-snip-
>>
>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>> debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>> revolution so they started sending them to Australia.

>
>That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots captured
>at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of the
>ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the McQuown's.
>He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now Perth
>Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
>farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out very
>differently for the McQuown's...
>


I don't know the particulars about my EDDEY ancestor who arrived in NJ
from Scotland as an indentured servant in the early 1700's. I
should probably dig into it a bit more one of these days. But I've
still got lots of more 'modern' leads to follow.

You'll like these observations from Ambrose Serle [he was Secretary to
Lord Howe during the Revolution, an astute observer of the colonists
in the NY-NJ area, and kept a great diary- published as "The American
Journal of Ambrose Serle"]

"SATURDAY, 24th. AUGUST. 1776

The passing of the Bill for confining Convicts to hard Labor within
the Realm instead of transporting them to America, is a very just and
politic Step, which ought to have been taken 50 Years ago. I read the
account of it with great Pleasure in the Papers, wch the last Packet
brought me. The Emigrations, voluntary & involuntary, from the
British Islands, have been really alarming and inconsiderately
allowed. The People are the Wealth & Strength of a State; and we have
been suffering that Wealth & Strength to pass from us to the Colonies
who are too strong (beyond their original Design) already. In the
Years 1771 & 1772 the number of Passengers from the North of Ireland,
as it appears by the Belfast News Letter, amounted to near 18,000;
and it is added, that the greatest Part of these Emigrants paid their
Passage, which at £3.10 each, amounted to above £60,000. Most of them
were People employed in the the Linen manufacture, or Farmers, and of
some Property, which they turned into Money and carried with them. By
an account, which I have likewise seen, communicated by an Hon. &
Right Revd. Bp. in the North of Ireland, above 33,000 Persons have
quitted that Country for America from the Year 1770 to the Year 1774:
and most of these were (what is termed) Scots-Irish, Presbyterians in
Religion, disposed absolutely to the present Faction against
Government, and many of them now principal agitators in these
Confusions."

Also- on July 27, 1776
"The silly Pride of Family prevails in these Regions, as well other
places; only with this Difference, that it is more rediculous here
than any where. Two Ladies of this Country whose Husbands had amassed
considerable Fortunes almost without a Beginning, happening to meet at
an Assembly, fell into a a Dispute about Precedence. After some
Contention, one of them gave Way, observing at the same time; "I
believe I must acknowledge Your Right to the Upper Hand; for I
recollect that your Father came over the Sessions just before mine."
Is no Disgrace to have been transported here, nor consequently to be
the Descendants of Transports. It would be no Blot in an American
Genealogy to trace an Origin, within one Generation, from Jonathan
Wild or Moll Flanders. Some of the best Families in this Country can
boast of no better Descent."


Jim


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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:23:13 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> snip
>> >
>> >Maybe it would encourage them to lay off all that phony tip soliciting
>> >behaviour like filling your water glass every time you take a sip, or
>> >topping up wine glasses.
>> >

>> If they didn't do that for you, you'd be yammering about the poor
>> service you get. They aren't soliciting tips by doing that, they are
>> simply being attentive to you. You are suspicious because you're sure
>> they are out to get into your wallet. Do you keep your calculator
>> next to your plate?
>> Janet US

>
>No. That actually bothered me too. It wasn't about someone going for extra
>tips. What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
>and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
>annoying to me and probably most diners.
>
>Gary

so then tell them, that you're fine and you will ask if you need more
water/wine or whatever. Tell them you would like to be undisturbed.
Janet US
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On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 3:05:36 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Every server I've ever asked would rather work for just tips and no
>
> wage than for a salary not much more than minimum wage.


Totally agree. Back around 1980, girl in next apt was pulling in a thou a week just tending bar. (She WAS young and beautiful which I'm sure helped.) Another friend, college degree etc., was waiting tables just during a lunch hour to supplement her other evening bartending job. She'd worked in a law office and wouldn't go back to that environment ever, said she.
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Please enlighten. EDDEY = ??? Thanks.
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:35:41 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:57:55 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>> The people who do
>> them should be respected for the service they provide.

>
>ABSOLUTELY... and not underpaid. I doubt a single person here has
>ever turned down a raise and yet they think it's okay for servers
>national minimum wage not to have risen in the last 20 years.
>
>> I'd better stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)


But the tips have risen along with the prices at the restaurant. I've
known servers to make in the range of $25 to $30 or more an hour in
the good spot. That is based on average take home for a 40 or so hour
week. They don't need an increase in the minimum.

We ate out tonight. It was about 90 minutes and I left $20. If he
had that from four tables, he is making a decent wage, I'd say. Plenty
of people would like to make that.

Maybe in some low price dive they need it, but not at the top spots.
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Ed Pawlowski > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:35:41 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:57:55 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>> The people who do
>>> them should be respected for the service they provide.

>>
>>ABSOLUTELY... and not underpaid. I doubt a single person here has
>>ever turned down a raise and yet they think it's okay for servers
>>national minimum wage not to have risen in the last 20 years.
>>
>>> I'd better stop, I feel a sermon coming on ;o)

>
> But the tips have risen along with the prices at the restaurant. I've
> known servers to make in the range of $25 to $30 or more an hour in
> the good spot. That is based on average take home for a 40 or so hour
> week. They don't need an increase in the minimum.
>
> We ate out tonight. It was about 90 minutes and I left $20. If he
> had that from four tables, he is making a decent wage, I'd say. Plenty
> of people would like to make that.
>
> Maybe in some low price dive they need it, but not at the top spots.
>



What irks me gteatly is some stablishments here in Oz are starting to
actually put a place on the receipt for an extra tip.... most likely
because damn ignorant 'Merikans come over here and (back when *they* had
the higher value dollar!!) act the same as they do back home.

The sooner the morons wake up and realise they *don't* have to tip over
here, the better it'll be for those of us that have to live here.

There are now approx 5 restaurants (mainly down the Gold Coast) that I
won't go back to because they charge a good price for their meals and
drinks, and then expect a tip on top.


--
Peter
Brisbane
Australia

Success isn't so difficult.
Just bite off more than you can chew,
then go do it.


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On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:27:46 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> wrote:

>Please enlighten. EDDEY = ??? Thanks.


Sorry-- Just a surname. It is customary in genealogy circles to
capitalize the surname [so names like Nelson Lyon NELSON can be
understood].

I slip into 'genealogy speak' sometimes. it what dragged me to
Usenet in the 90's.

Jim
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/6/2013 9:29 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>> On 2/6/2013 8:47 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> On 2/6/2013 7:53 AM, John J wrote:
>>>>>> I guess he wasn't aware that British used to send their convicts and
>>>>>> >>debtors to the American colonies. They had to stop that after the
>>>>>> >>revolution so they started sending them to Australia.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >That's how my father's family got to the US. They were Scots
>>>>> >captured
>>>>> >at the battle of Bothwell Bridge, 1679 by the Brits. Father and son
>>>>> >were transported to the "colonies". They had been sold to a Virginia
>>>>> >planter as indentured servants. During the crossing the captain of
>>>>> the
>>>>> >ship died. The man who assumed command was a friend of the
>>>>> >McQuown's.
>>>>> >He changed the course of the ship. They landed at Amboy, NJ (now
>>>>> Perth
>>>>> >Amboy, so named by the Scots). From there they made their way to
>>>>> >Pennsylvania. They received land grants from William Penn and became
>>>>> >farmers. If the Captain hadn't died things would have turned out
>>>>> >very
>>>>> >differently for the McQuown's...
>>>
>>>> Great to have that kind of information about ancestors that far back.
>>>>
>>>> -- John
>>>
>>> My great-uncle Boyd did the research. Pre-computers! Based on bits
>>> and pieces he'd heard over the years, he combed through historical
>>> society records, old letters, church parish records of marriages,
>>> births and deaths. It took him 20+ years to put the family history
>>> together. It must have been a painstakingly slow undertaking.
>>>
>>> What puzzles me is did the guy (John McQuown) leave a wife behind in
>>> Scotland? Or had she died? If she didn't die, did she somehow join
>>> them in the colonies later? He and his son were *both* captured and
>>> transported. In the family history there is mention of him having a
>>> wife in Pennsylvania. Obviously she wasn't captured in the battle.
>>> The guy could have been a bigamist I doubt it, but I guess I'll
>>> never know.
>>>
>>> Jill

>> Jill, you may be interested in this URL:
>>
>> http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/t...bridge1679.htm
>>
>> Your ancestor appears to have been a member of the Scottish Covenanters'
>> who rebelled against Charles II. It wasn't even just the English who won
>> the battle but the Royal Army plus Scottish troops from near Glasgow.
>>
>> From the URL.
>>
>> «
>> The royal army was further reinforced as it advanced towards Glasgow by
>> troops from Scotland. (The commander) Monmouth had the support of
>> several able military leaders, including Claverhouse, the earl of
>> Linlithgow, the earl of Airlie, Lord Mar, and the earl of Home.
>> »
>>

> I've read all about it, but thanks for the link, Jim.
>
> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing thing!
> Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones should rest...


They are indeed!
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

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On 2/6/2013 6:23 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 2/6/2013 6:16 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
>> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
>> thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
>> should rest...
>>
>> Jill

> Well, the winners write the history, even if Richard III wasn't as bad
> as his reputation! I don't really accept Josephine Tey's whitewash.
>


Of course there was lots of treachery back in the day when it came to
succession to the throne. Who really knows if he had his nephews murdered?

Jill
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On 2/7/2013 8:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
>> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
>> thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
>> should rest...

>
> They are indeed!


Do you ever sleep? LOL I find you posting at hours even *I* consider to
be very early. It must be very late there.

Jill
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/7/2013 8:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
>>> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
>>> thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
>>> should rest...

>>
>> They are indeed!

>
> Do you ever sleep? LOL I find you posting at hours even *I* consider to
> be very early. It must be very late there.


Not really. I tend to finish in the evening around 9/10ish and look in
around errr 10am ish Then I post on and off during the day and evening,
depending what I have on. I have been ill recently so spent more time
sitting on
here. Oddly enough I thought the same about you, but figured we must post
around the same time.
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/



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On 2/7/2013 8:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2/7/2013 8:16 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> Have you been following how they found and verified the bones of King
>>>> Richard III from under a parking lot in Leicester? What an amazing
>>>> thing! Verified by DNA. Now they are arguing over where his bones
>>>> should rest...
>>>
>>> They are indeed!

>>
>> Do you ever sleep? LOL I find you posting at hours even *I* consider to
>> be very early. It must be very late there.

>
> Not really. I tend to finish in the evening around 9/10ish and look in
> around errr 10am ish Then I post on and off during the day and evening,
> depending what I have on. I have been ill recently so spent more time
> sitting on
> here. Oddly enough I thought the same about you, but figured we must post
> around the same time.


I'm sorry to hear you've been ill. Yes, we seem to be on the same sort
of schedule. I usually go to bed between 11PM and midnight... depends
on what I've been doing that day. I wake up early to feed Persia.
(Sometimes she lets me sleep past 8AM!) Once I'm awake I have a hard
time getting back to sleep so I do little chores around the house. I
check the ng while doing a load of laundry, etc. Yesterday I was
expecting a repairman for the refrigerator so sleeping in wasn't an
option. Feel better soon!

Jill
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

>>> Do you ever sleep? LOL I find you posting at hours even *I* consider to
>>> be very early. It must be very late there.

>>
>> Not really. I tend to finish in the evening around 9/10ish and look in
>> around errr 10am ish Then I post on and off during the day and
>> evening,
>> depending what I have on. I have been ill recently so spent more time
>> sitting on
>> here. Oddly enough I thought the same about you, but figured we must
>> post
>> around the same time.

>
> I'm sorry to hear you've been ill. Yes, we seem to be on the same sort of
> schedule. I usually go to bed between 11PM and midnight... depends on
> what I've been doing that day. I wake up early to feed Persia. (Sometimes
> she lets me sleep past 8AM!) Once I'm awake I have a hard time getting
> back to sleep so I do little chores around the house. I check the ng
> while doing a load of laundry, etc. Yesterday I was expecting a repairman
> for the refrigerator so sleeping in wasn't an option. Feel better soon!


Thanks!
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

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On 06/02/2013 6:06 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>
>> What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
>> and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
>> annoying to me and probably most diners.
>>

> Not if you're used to dining out.
>



Not everyone dines out with the intention of having a serving hovering
at your disposal and trying to be your best friend until you pay your
bill. If I am out with friends and we are having a nice conversation
and enjoying good food I don't want to be constantly interrupted. A good
waiter is one who is there when you want them, not one who is always in
your face.
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On 2/7/2013 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 06/02/2013 6:06 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly
>>> and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's
>>> annoying to me and probably most diners.
>>>

>> Not if you're used to dining out.


> Not everyone dines out with the intention of having a serving hovering
> at your disposal and trying to be your best friend until you pay your
> bill. If I am out with friends and we are having a nice conversation
> and enjoying good food I don't want to be constantly interrupted. A good
> waiter is one who is there when you want them, not one who is always in
> your face.


Agreed. I don't want to see the waiter unless I'm ordering or I need
something. If I have to start craning my neck to get my drink refilled,
I'm kind of annoyed. A good waiter can accomplish this without being
obvious.

nancy

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On Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:42:45 AM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 06/02/2013 6:06 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, Gary > wrote:

>
> >

>
> >> What bothered me was that someone was actually watching us constantly

>
> >> and came right over once my water glass got below half filled. It's

>
> >> annoying to me and probably most diners.

>
> >>

>
> > Not if you're used to dining out.

>
> >

>
>
>
>
>
> Not everyone dines out with the intention of having a serving hovering
>
> at your disposal and trying to be your best friend until you pay your
>
> bill. If I am out with friends and we are having a nice conversation
>
> and enjoying good food I don't want to be constantly interrupted. A good
>
> waiter is one who is there when you want them, not one who is always in
>
> your face.


I *do* want my water glass to be refilled. If I can see that the staff
is spread thin, I often ask them to leave a pitcher. If my water glass
never stays empty for more than a minute or two, I tip more, and if in
addition, the salsa never runs out, better still.

Tonight it's duck wings at the Chinese takeout.

--Bryan
This is cute-
http://www.upworthy.com/the-most-ing...-univers?c=bl3
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