On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 12:00:30 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote:



>>
> It is convenient to say that the
>percentage tip should be raised for inflation but that innumeracy is
>most often advanced by restaurant critics who don't even pay their own
>bills.

I don't see why the percentage for a tip should be raised. Prices go
up, the tip goes up.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:36:00 -0400, wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:04:36 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 19:01:44 -0400, wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 13:57:39 -0800, sf > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:36:29 -0400, wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 12:25:49 -0800, sf > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:26:44 -0400, wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 11:09:16 -0800, sf > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:01:10 -0400, wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:51:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >On Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:08:58 -0000, "Ophelia"
> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Good grief!!! If a someone did that to me I would walk out!!
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Honestly, when does that ever happen? If it did, wouldn't you have a
> >> >> >> >> >"word" with the manager before you left?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Not necessarily. The job is not well paid, the person has maybe taken
> >> >> >> >> flack that day, all sorts of possible reasons. I am not going to have
> >> >> >> >> a word with the manager, how spiteful is that when I do not know all
> >> >> >> >> the facts ?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >So, you'd just walk out without paying? That's so grown up.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Huh ? Where did you get the not paying idea ? Save your inventions
> >> >> >> for elsewhere.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Quoted above "If a someone did that to me I would walk out!!" with no
> >> >> >mention of eating the meal and paying for it first.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You need to straighten up - I said
> >> >>
> >> >> ">> > wrote in message
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > It has zilch to do with being cheap and more to do with not liking my
> >> >> >> > plate slammed down in front of me, or a "Whadda ya want?" attitude.
> >> >> >> > Why on earth reward bad service, that would seen highly unfair to the
> >> >> >> > mostly likeable servers.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Good grief!!! If a someone did that to me I would walk out!!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >Honestly, when does that ever happen? If it did, wouldn't you have a
> >> >> >"word" with the manager before you left?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Not necessarily. The job is not well paid, the person has maybe taken
> >> >> flack that day, all sorts of possible reasons. I am not going to have
> >> >> a word with the manager, how spiteful is that when I do not know all
> >> >> the facts ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From that you deduce that I skip out without paying !
> >> >
> >> >Are you that incapable of reading the reply after yours?
> >>
> >> Yes I am, and answered it - however you answered my post, not hers.
> >
> >I see what happened. I didn't copy her header and you didn't remember
> >what you wrote.
>
> I can't be bothered with this -

That's fine. I'm done with it too.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:29:06 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 09:23:40 +1000, atec77 <"atec77 >
> wrote:
> snip
> >I wonder about the whole tipping thing , in this part of the world the
> >waiters are better paid and need not beg for a tip , seems a basic human
> >right to be paid fairly although it does mean the owners have to face
> >the reality that staff deserve a decent wage and prices remain the
> >affordable.
>
> Waiters don't beg for a tip. Diners leave a tip behind with their
> bill payment after their meal and that is that.
> Janet US

People like him will never get it.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:05:28 -0500, Susan > wrote:



>
>I'm trying to remember the last time I went to any restaurant that
>didn't charge the retail price of the bottle for a glass.
>
>The drinks are where the profit is.

I've been to a few places in Italy where they charge about 2 Euro for
wine. They put a pitcher on the table and you drink as much or as
little as you like. Decent stuff too.

The pitcher is filled from a cask of about five gallons or so. The
locals also buy wine in bulk. They all know someone that makes it. I
was shocked at the low prices in stores for good wine too.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:14:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:05:28 -0500, Susan > wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >I'm trying to remember the last time I went to any restaurant that
> >didn't charge the retail price of the bottle for a glass.
> >
> >The drinks are where the profit is.
>
> I've been to a few places in Italy where they charge about 2 Euro for
> wine. They put a pitcher on the table and you drink as much or as
> little as you like. Decent stuff too.
>
> The pitcher is filled from a cask of about five gallons or so. The
> locals also buy wine in bulk. They all know someone that makes it. I
> was shocked at the low prices in stores for good wine too.

Interesting. I was in some restaurants where we were the only
non-locals and didn't come across that practice once.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:14:32 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
wrote:

> Janet Bostwick > wrote:

> > When you eat out and pay your
> > bill, the restaurant still gets all their profit, doesn't make any
> > difference to their bottom line whether you tip or not.
> > Janet US
>
> Wrong. Restaurants have to make up missing minimum wages when not getting
> enough tips.
>
Oh boo hoo for the restaurants. $3 hr is below minimum wage - and we
can thank your pal, Herman Cain for that. They don't have to pay
workers any more unless the locality dictates a minimum wage for
restaurant workers

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:27:45 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 14:16:53 -0500, Dave Smith
>
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I can't afford to pay top rate tips on top of an over priced meal so I
>
> > shouldn't go out for dinner???? Screw that.
>
>
>
> Or you could make better choices about where to eat.
>
>
>
> > If they can't make a living
>
> > on their menial labour position maybe they need to look for a better
>
> > job.
>
>
>
> I hope you reread what you just said and realize how ridiculous it
>
> sounds.
>
It sounds like something a complete asshole would say. There's only
one restaurant where we are regulars, and I tip a high percent. One
reason is that our check is smaller than average because we get items
ala carte, and the answer to, "Would you like rice and beans with that?"
is almost always, "No." We typically drink water, and go at happy hour
where the guacamole is half price.

OK, so we spend $25, whereas another table of 3 spends $40. If that table
tips 20%, that's $8. If we tip $8 on our $25 check, that's a little more
than 31%, and our total cost is $33. If we tipped only 20% ($5), our cost
would be $30. That means that tipping the higher amount means our total
cost is exactly 10% higher than if we tipped only 20%. Since we're
regulars, they know we tip 30+% for good service, and we get consistently
good service. It isn't often that my water glass is empty, and they
are motivated to keep refilling the salsa, which is not their house salsa,
but one that is much better.

I ask you, is 10% extra worth it for extra good service? I tell you, the
not running out of water or salsa is certainly worth the extra 10%; very
worth it. Plus, the tip is left in cash, and the tipped employees pay
taxes on tips based on the average of tips left on credit cards. If I dine
alone, and get two items ala carte, my bill is $6.75 plus tax, so the check
is about $7.25, so if I tip $1.75, that's ~26% of pre tax, but if I tip $2.75, that's ~40%. My cost is $11 instead of $10: again, 10% more, but that typically gets me VIP service. My meal experience if enhanced way more than 10% by the excellent service.

I don't order more food that I wish to eat, but I tip as if I did, plus
some. The owner gets less profit than if I were a food waster, but more
than if I hadn't patronized his restaurant at all. Everybody wins.

--Bryan

On Sat, 2 Feb 2013 21:58:43 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> I ask you, is 10% extra worth it for extra good service? I tell you, the
> not running out of water or salsa is certainly worth the extra 10%; very
> worth it. Plus, the tip is left in cash, and the tipped employees pay
> taxes on tips based on the average of tips left on credit cards. If I dine
> alone, and get two items ala carte, my bill is $6.75 plus tax, so the check
> is about $7.25, so if I tip $1.75, that's ~26% of pre tax, but if I tip $2.75, that's ~40%. My cost is $11 instead of $10: again, 10% more, but that typically gets me VIP service. My meal experience if enhanced way more than 10% by the excellent service.

We also tip well at our regular restaurants and are very well treated
too. "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" works for me.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"jmcquown" wrote in message ...

On 2/2/2013 9:20 AM, notbob wrote:
> In fact I had a boss who absolutely refused any kind of tip at
> all. "NO! I don't tip". What an ass! We knew we'd hafta pony up to
> cover his shortage. It got so I jes declined his invites.

I used to go to lunch occasionally at one restaurant with a small group
(4 people) of co-workers. One woman *never* tipped. She ran the server
around like crazy and this wasn't even a large group. We usually had
separate checks. One of us us would create a ruse when we paid and were
leaving. We'd slip some money under this woman's plate for her share of
the tip. There's nothing worse than going out to eat with a cheapskate
who won't tip even for excellent service.

Jill

~~~~~~~~~~
I often took candidates out to dinner (as did others in the department) when
I was serving on search committees. The state would cover the cost of our
meals, but we could not charge tips as an "expense." I always resented that
because I certainly was not going to stiff the server simply because the
state did not recognize the need to leave a gratuity. So, I always left a
tip from my own funds to cover both my meal and the guest's meal. Some
people would look at that as a "free meal" for those of us taking the
candidate to dinner, but the reality was that we were giving up an evening
to continue interviewing the candidate; it was not a "social" time for us.

MaryL

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.
>
> Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
> not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?
>
> I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
> parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
> table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
> almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
> rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
> table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
> smaller tables with a big sign out front.
>
> BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
> up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
> Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
> ....NOW!
>
> nb

I don't like that but... I do know a lot of people who seem to think they
can tip less with a large group.

You do have to check your bill, always. I didn't realize that Olive Garden
does something like this. They do and I was leaving a tip on top of that.

"I'm back" > wrote in message
...
> notbob > wrote in
> :
>
>> Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.
>>
>> Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
>> not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?
>>
>
>
> If there's a surcharge, then you shouldn't have to tip.
>
> Bottom line, the USA should pay their workers the rate they are entitled
> to, as the rest of the (civilised) world does.... instead of being the
> cheap assholes they are and paying "minimum wage" where the worker has to
> survive on tips to live.
>
> If you pay your workers peanuts, you get monkeys doing the job.
>
> --
> Peter
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
> Success isn't so difficult.
> Just bite off more than you can chew,
> then go do it.

Each state is different. In WA they are required to pay at minimum wage for
most jobs, including wait staff. There are a few exceptions such as
underage children but they are only allowed to do a few specific things and
that includes farm work.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> Here in WA State, minimum wage is now over $9. Servers get paid
> minimum wage, not like in some states that have a wage scale where
> people who get tips get $3 a hour or so. Having a small independent
> restaurant you learn to work with the big cost of doing business that
> is salary costs. It's a big juggle for a lot of independents to make
> it. What it does is that it weeds out the bad and sloppy and poorly
> run restaurants.
>
> People here know the servers make minimum wage and they still tip very
> well, mainly because they get good food and good service and a
> pleasant experience.

I'm in WA and I always tip at least 20%.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 02/02/2013 2:27 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 14:16:53 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I can't afford to pay top rate tips on top of an over priced meal
>>> so I shouldn't go out for dinner???? Screw that.
>>
>> Or you could make better choices about where to eat.
>>
>>> If they can't make a living
>>> on their menial labour position maybe they need to look for a better
>>> job.
>>
>> I hope you reread what you just said and realize how ridiculous it
>> sounds.
>>
>
>
> Isn't that the same argument that a lot of people use for other
> things, like unions. Rather than going out on strike for more money
> they should find a better job. Waiting tables is, by definition,
> menial labour.
>
> FWIW, the general minimum wage here is now $10.25 per hour, and for
> people who serve liquor it is $8.90. There are lots of people we deal
> with every day who are making minimum wage, like store clerks. We
> don't tip them. Most retail workers are not well paid, but we don't
> tip them. There was a time when people waited tables for tips, with
> no wages at all. Most civilized countries now have labour laws to set
> decent conditions for workers and minimum wages. For some reason, we
> cling to the idea that there are some workers who we don't expect to
> pay well and we tip them to get better service.

I have never worked in a restaurant but I have worked in retail. Depending
on the job that I did there, I might or might not have any contact with the
customers. And even if I had the *most* contact such as ringing up a large
number of items for a single sale or maybe placing a special order where I
had to ask a lot of questions or making sure they had the right size of
draperies or blinds, the amount of stuff that I had to do for that customer
was far less than what a waiter or waitress would have to do. Also some
(but not all) retail people get an extra percentage based on sales. There's
a term for that but the name escapes me. When I worked at K Mart, I
sometimes had to fill in for breaks and lunches in the appliance dept. I
loved to do that because all I had to do was sell a TV or stereo and my
paycheck would go way up!

Some restaurants have specific cashiers. You don't tip them either. Or the
host/hostess. But some have wait staff that have to do all of those things
in addition to waiting the tables. They have to make sure that you have
your menus, know the specials (if they have any), have all of the place
settings and condiments. They usually bring your water and other drinks and
have to refil them. Some Mexican places offer free salsa and chips. They
have to make sure those are refilled. They take your order, make sure that
it is right, serve it and should probably check back at least once to make
sure that you get all that you need. They usually come back again to see if
you want dessert. Oh and they bring you the check. Sometimes they even run
it to the register for you. So in my mind they are providing more service.

We also tip nail techs and hairdressers. I don't really know why we tip
some people but not others.

"Bryan" > wrote in message
...
> On Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:27:45 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 14:16:53 -0500, Dave Smith
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I can't afford to pay top rate tips on top of an over priced meal so I
>>
>> > shouldn't go out for dinner???? Screw that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or you could make better choices about where to eat.
>>
>>
>>
>> > If they can't make a living
>>
>> > on their menial labour position maybe they need to look for a better
>>
>> > job.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope you reread what you just said and realize how ridiculous it
>>
>> sounds.
>>
> It sounds like something a complete asshole would say. There's only
> one restaurant where we are regulars, and I tip a high percent. One
> reason is that our check is smaller than average because we get items
> ala carte, and the answer to, "Would you like rice and beans with that?"
> is almost always, "No." We typically drink water, and go at happy hour
> where the guacamole is half price.
>
> OK, so we spend $25, whereas another table of 3 spends $40. If that table
> tips 20%, that's $8. If we tip $8 on our $25 check, that's a little more
> than 31%, and our total cost is $33. If we tipped only 20% ($5), our cost
> would be $30. That means that tipping the higher amount means our total
> cost is exactly 10% higher than if we tipped only 20%. Since we're
> regulars, they know we tip 30+% for good service, and we get consistently
> good service. It isn't often that my water glass is empty, and they
> are motivated to keep refilling the salsa, which is not their house salsa,
> but one that is much better.
>
> I ask you, is 10% extra worth it for extra good service? I tell you, the
> not running out of water or salsa is certainly worth the extra 10%; very
> worth it. Plus, the tip is left in cash, and the tipped employees pay
> taxes on tips based on the average of tips left on credit cards. If I
> dine
> alone, and get two items ala carte, my bill is $6.75 plus tax, so the
> check
> is about $7.25, so if I tip $1.75, that's ~26% of pre tax, but if I tip
> $2.75, that's ~40%. My cost is $11 instead of $10: again, 10% more, but
> that typically gets me VIP service. My meal experience if enhanced way
> more than 10% by the excellent service.
>
> I don't order more food that I wish to eat, but I tip as if I did, plus
> some. The owner gets less profit than if I were a food waster, but more
> than if I hadn't patronized his restaurant at all. Everybody wins.
>
> --Bryan

Bryan wrote:
> On Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:27:45 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 14:16:53 -0500, Dave Smith
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I can't afford to pay top rate tips on top of an over priced meal
>>> so I
>>
>>> shouldn't go out for dinner???? Screw that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or you could make better choices about where to eat.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If they can't make a living
>>
>>> on their menial labour position maybe they need to look for a better
>>
>>> job.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope you reread what you just said and realize how ridiculous it
>>
>> sounds.
>>
> It sounds like something a complete asshole would say. There's only
> one restaurant where we are regulars, and I tip a high percent. One
> reason is that our check is smaller than average because we get items
> ala carte, and the answer to, "Would you like rice and beans with
> that?"
> is almost always, "No." We typically drink water, and go at happy
> hour
> where the guacamole is half price.
>
> OK, so we spend $25, whereas another table of 3 spends $40. If that
> table
> tips 20%, that's $8. If we tip $8 on our $25 check, that's a little
> more
> than 31%, and our total cost is $33. If we tipped only 20% ($5), our
> cost
> would be $30. That means that tipping the higher amount means our
> total
> cost is exactly 10% higher than if we tipped only 20%. Since we're
> regulars, they know we tip 30+% for good service, and we get
> consistently
> good service. It isn't often that my water glass is empty, and they
> are motivated to keep refilling the salsa, which is not their house
> salsa,
> but one that is much better.
>
> I ask you, is 10% extra worth it for extra good service? I tell you,
> the
> not running out of water or salsa is certainly worth the extra 10%;
> very
> worth it. Plus, the tip is left in cash, and the tipped employees pay
> taxes on tips based on the average of tips left on credit cards. If
> I dine
> alone, and get two items ala carte, my bill is $6.75 plus tax, so the
> check
> is about $7.25, so if I tip $1.75, that's ~26% of pre tax, but if I
> tip $2.75, that's ~40%. My cost is $11 instead of $10: again, 10%
> more, but that typically gets me VIP service. My meal experience if
> enhanced way more than 10% by the excellent service.
>
> I don't order more food that I wish to eat, but I tip as if I did,
> plus
> some. The owner gets less profit than if I were a food waster, but
> more
> than if I hadn't patronized his restaurant at all. Everybody wins.

We often get special food. At the place where we had lunch today, I told
the owner who is also a cook that my daughter liked this one dish but it was
far too much food for her and she doesn't eat the rice. So he asked me what
specifically she wanted and the portion size. Despite owning a Mexican
restaurant, he eats low carb. And although there are low carb options on
the menu they are not to my daughter's liking. So he made her the dish like
she wanted. He has accomodated my mother when she was on a special diet.
And I order things with stuff left off. He always gets our orders right and
remembers what we like. So I tip them well.

At other places we sometimes order side dishes or split a meal. Because we
usually order special things, I always try to tip extra.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> This brings up another point. Let's say you go to a restaurant with
> another person. You order a beverage, an entree, then dessert and
> coffee. The wait person had to make a few trips to serve you. How
> much should you tip?
>
> Notice, I did not say what the bill was. You may have gone to a local
> family restaurant and have a $40 bill for the two of you or you could
> be dining at a high end place and have a $140 bill for two. The
> waiter gave the same time and effort to you in both places.

> Does one deserve a lot more money?

Yes

> Why?

You are eating in a nicer place with better food (hopefully) and tips should
be based on your food bill, not the amount of time a wait person spends with
you. You are paying to "rent" a nicer piece of real estate. Nicer
restaurants also have other employees that get a cut of the tips. The
bussers (sp?) get some. One nice restaurant I went to even had a waiter that
only refilled water glasses. He kept watch over the entire dining area and
as soon as your water glass got low, he would be right there with a pitcher
to top it off. (That one amused me. Before I took a drink of water, I told
my daughter, "Watch this...that guy will be here in a few seconds to refill
my glass." I took a drink of water and, sure enough, he came right over to
top it off. heheh)

I tip well and it's based on the total bill (food, wine, tax). If you want
to eat out and pay more for it, vs cooking at home, you shouldn't pinch
pennies and only hurt the lowest paid (per hour) workers.

I even tip well at a buffet restaurant where I get my own food. The waitress
still stops by to take away any empty plates and asks if you need anything
like more drink, etc.

When my daughter was young, I used to take her to Shoney's restaurant every
Friday night for a buffet dinner. Shoney's was a lower priced restaurant
and the waitresses usually got low percentage tips there. Seems that people
that choose a low priced place don't like to tip much either. We usually got
the same nice waitress each Friday and we tipped her "better than average"
and she always pampered us. She was always happy to see us and we were
equally happy to get her again as our waitress.

As a few people have mentioned, if you go to a certain restaurant on a
regular basis, the wait staff gets to know you and they treat you better
knowing that you're not a cheapskate with the tips.

Again I say, if you are going to nit-pick the amount of a tip, you should
stay at home and eat.

During her college years, my daughter worked at 3 higher-end restaurants.
She received about $2.80 per hour plus tips. The tips are what they count
on. They also all pooled their tips so every one on the shift earned the
same that night.

And another thing..... the lunch crowd generally tips less percentage than
the dinner crowd. No one wanted to work the lunch shift.

Gary

Gary wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> This brings up another point. Let's say you go to a restaurant with
>> another person. You order a beverage, an entree, then dessert and
>> coffee. The wait person had to make a few trips to serve you. How
>> much should you tip?
>>
>> Notice, I did not say what the bill was. You may have gone to a
>> local family restaurant and have a $40 bill for the two of you or
>> you could be dining at a high end place and have a $140 bill for
>> two. The waiter gave the same time and effort to you in both places.
>
>> Does one deserve a lot more money?
>
> Yes
>
>> Why?
>
> You are eating in a nicer place with better food (hopefully) and tips
> should be based on your food bill, not the amount of time a wait
> person spends with you. You are paying to "rent" a nicer piece of
> real estate. Nicer restaurants also have other employees that get a
> cut of the tips. The bussers (sp?) get some. One nice restaurant I
> went to even had a waiter that only refilled water glasses. He kept
> watch over the entire dining area and as soon as your water glass got
> low, he would be right there with a pitcher to top it off. (That one
> amused me. Before I took a drink of water, I told my daughter, "Watch
> this...that guy will be here in a few seconds to refill my glass." I
> took a drink of water and, sure enough, he came right over to top it
> off. heheh)
>
> I tip well and it's based on the total bill (food, wine, tax). If you
> want to eat out and pay more for it, vs cooking at home, you
> shouldn't pinch pennies and only hurt the lowest paid (per hour)
> workers.
>
> I even tip well at a buffet restaurant where I get my own food. The
> waitress still stops by to take away any empty plates and asks if you
> need anything like more drink, etc.
>
> When my daughter was young, I used to take her to Shoney's restaurant
> every Friday night for a buffet dinner. Shoney's was a lower priced
> restaurant and the waitresses usually got low percentage tips there.
> Seems that people that choose a low priced place don't like to tip
> much either. We usually got the same nice waitress each Friday and we
> tipped her "better than average" and she always pampered us. She was
> always happy to see us and we were equally happy to get her again as
> our waitress.
>
> As a few people have mentioned, if you go to a certain restaurant on a
> regular basis, the wait staff gets to know you and they treat you
> better knowing that you're not a cheapskate with the tips.
>
> Again I say, if you are going to nit-pick the amount of a tip, you
> should stay at home and eat.
>
> During her college years, my daughter worked at 3 higher-end
> restaurants. She received about $2.80 per hour plus tips. The tips
> are what they count on. They also all pooled their tips so every one
> on the shift earned the same that night.
>
> And another thing..... the lunch crowd generally tips less percentage
> than the dinner crowd. No one wanted to work the lunch shift.
>
> Gary

Also at a nicer restaurant, the wait staff may be required to wear nicer
clothing and shoes which cost more money.

On 02/02/2013 6:23 PM, atec77 wrote:

> I wonder about the whole tipping thing , in this part of the world the
> waiters are better paid and need not beg for a tip , seems a basic human
> right to be paid fairly although it does mean the owners have to face
> the reality that staff deserve a decent wage and prices remain the
> affordable.



It is a matter of delusion isn't it. People want to be able to pay $9.95
for something because they think it is cheaper than $10. Then they
insist on their need to leave 15% to the poor underpaid server, but they
don't want to be charged $11.50 for the same menu selection with the
knowledge that the server will be getting that extra $1.50.

On 02/02/2013 6:29 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

>> That's pretty short sighted. Restaurants don't make it on people paying
>> an extra 2-5% to their waiters. They make it on return business. Treat
>> me like crap and they won't see me there again.
>
> Leave a lousy tip and they will make sure you never return... they
> don't want your kind of return business.

Give lousy service and they won't have any customers to worry about.

On 02/02/2013 7:09 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:47:29 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> I resent being expected to pay a 500-600% markup on mediocre
>> wine and then people expected to pay a minimum 15% tip on that
>> hyperinflated price. As I said, they were all mediocre wines.
>
> Oh, come on. Don't blame inflated liquor prices on the serving staff.
> Most people tip based on the price of the food and maybe add a bit
> more for the liquor if the staff came around and actually poured
> "seconds" from the bottle.
>

Is it a matter of blaming the server for the price? I am just saying
that I don't understand why I should have to leave twice as big a tip
for a glass of wine when the restaurant has already charged me twice as
much as it should be. I have enough of an issue with the idea that I
have to pay the same percentage on a $30 bottle of wine as I do with a
$60 bottle. It makes it that much worse when they charge $60 for a
bottle that should be $30. I am already getting gouged, and then I have
to reward the server for having been involved in the gouging?

On 02/02/2013 7:12 PM, sf wrote:

>> I have eaten in countries where waiters are paid a decent wage and tips
>> are not expected. The service is still good. They know that if they do
>> not treat customers well they will be out of a job.
>
> Those countries are not the USA and I have breaking news for you about
> other countries: When they figure out the customer is an American,
> they bust their butts for a tip over and above what's tacked on to the
> bill. Germans don't tip, so they just get basic service.
>


That's true. They are not the US. Neither am I in the US. Having been
in Germany several times and service has always been excellent, and no
tip expected. Waiters make a decent money without it, and you don't get
all that idiotic tip soliciting behaviour, like coming by and pouring
more wine for you every time you take a zip, no refilling your water.
When I go for a meal it is for the food and for the company of my
friends, not to have a server fluttering about looking for ways to get a
bigger tip.

On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 01:29:21 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> Also some
> (but not all) retail people get an extra percentage based on sales. There's
> a term for that but the name escapes me.

Commission?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 08:11:26 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 02/02/2013 7:09 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:47:29 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> I resent being expected to pay a 500-600% markup on mediocre
> >> wine and then people expected to pay a minimum 15% tip on that
> >> hyperinflated price. As I said, they were all mediocre wines.
> >
> > Oh, come on. Don't blame inflated liquor prices on the serving staff.
> > Most people tip based on the price of the food and maybe add a bit
> > more for the liquor if the staff came around and actually poured
> > "seconds" from the bottle.
> >
>
> Is it a matter of blaming the server for the price? I am just saying
> that I don't understand why I should have to leave twice as big a tip
> for a glass of wine when the restaurant has already charged me twice as
> much as it should be. I have enough of an issue with the idea that I
> have to pay the same percentage on a $30 bottle of wine as I do with a
> $60 bottle. It makes it that much worse when they charge $60 for a
> bottle that should be $30. I am already getting gouged, and then I have
> to reward the server for having been involved in the gouging?

Why are you including the price of alcohol in the tip? Don't.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> That's true. They are not the US. Neither am I in the US. Having been
> in Germany several times and service has always been excellent, and no
> tip expected. Waiters make a decent money without it, and you don't get
> all that idiotic tip soliciting behaviour, like coming by and pouring
> more wine for you every time you take a zip, no refilling your water.
> When I go for a meal it is for the food and for the company of my
> friends, not to have a server fluttering about looking for ways to get a
> bigger tip.

Dave, you're just a tightwad and most restaurants would be happy for you to
just stay at home. You sound like the small percentage of patrons that they
would probably not ever want to see again. ehehh

Save your money and cook at home. It's a win-win situation, imo.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 08:15:34 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 02/02/2013 7:12 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >> I have eaten in countries where waiters are paid a decent wage and tips
> >> are not expected. The service is still good. They know that if they do
> >> not treat customers well they will be out of a job.
> >
> > Those countries are not the USA and I have breaking news for you about
> > other countries: When they figure out the customer is an American,
> > they bust their butts for a tip over and above what's tacked on to the
> > bill. Germans don't tip, so they just get basic service.
> >
>
>
> That's true. They are not the US. Neither am I in the US. Having been
> in Germany several times and service has always been excellent, and no
> tip expected. Waiters make a decent money without it, and you don't get
> all that idiotic tip soliciting behaviour, like coming by and pouring
> more wine for you every time you take a zip, no refilling your water.
> When I go for a meal it is for the food and for the company of my
> friends, not to have a server fluttering about looking for ways to get a
> bigger tip.

Good wait staff is invisible. Keep my water glass filled without
intruding on the conversation and I know you're paying attention.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 2/2/2013 2:22 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:27:59 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 02/02/2013 9:31 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You can make arguments both ways, such as paying a good wage and
>>>> eliminating the tip. As long as you know up front, I don't have a
>>>> problem with the 18% add on. Every year at our Christmas party (about
>>>> 40 people) they add the 18%. Unlike the cheapo pastor, the bill is
>>>> paid with additional tip added.
>>>
>>> I don't eat out often but when I do I always tip 25-30 percent. I know
>>> that's high but I also realize that waitresses get paid very little and
>>> count on tips. I appreciate their care (if it's good) so I don't mind
>>> paying that.
>>
>> You're right. It is high.
>>
>>>
>>> If I wanted to save money, I'd cook at home for much cheaper, even without
>>> the tip.
>>>
>> Sorry, but I don't buy into the argument that if you can afford to eat
>> out you can afford to pay a larger tip. I am not into playing Mr.
>> Bigshot and expecting wait staff to jump when I snap my fingers. They
>> aren't trained dogs. The taking of orders and delivery of food is part
>> of the service that you get when you eat in a restaurant. If I have to
>> pay extra to get a smile and the patronizing tip soliciting behaviour I
>> will take the food without the smile and save the money.
>
(gentle snippage)
> I never put tips on plastic, all my tips are in green
> money directly into the hand of my the server, I never leave a tip on
> the table. Those who don't carry cash are the worst of the
> cheapskates.
>
You sound like my father! He cautioned never put tips on "plastic"
(credit card). He figured what the government doesn't know won't hurt
them. The problem with this is tips are taxed based on total sales.
Cash or plastic, it doesn't matter. Uncle Sam is gonna get his even if
the server didn't earn that much in tips.

Upthread someone else mentioned tip-pooling or tip-sharing. Yes, in
many establishments the busboys, host/hostesses, sometimes even
bartenders (who got their own tips) get a share of the tips the servers
ran their asses off to earn. Those positions all get paid at least
minimum wage whereas the servers don't. While I appreciate that people
doing these jobs help the servers, I don't think they should have to
share their tips with higher paid employees.

Jill

sf wrote:
>
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 01:29:21 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
> > Also some
> > (but not all) retail people get an extra percentage based on sales. There's
> > a term for that but the name escapes me.
>
> Commission?

Or maybe profit sharing?

On 2/2/2013 10:42 AM, zxcvbob wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>> Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.
>> Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
>> not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?
>>
>> I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
>> parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
>> table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
>> almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
>> rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
>> table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
>> smaller tables with a big sign out front.
>> BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
>> up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
>> Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
>> ....NOW!
>>
>
>
>
> If there's a surcharge (which ****es me off), I don't leave a tip. I
> tend to order cheap, but I'm a big tipper, so the waitress gets less
> this way.
>
> They must have each ordered just a coffee or iced tea. And then
> probably sat there taking up a big table for 90 minutes. If the place
> was almost empty, that's OK. If it was busy, manager should've asked
> them (after about 20 minutes) to order some food or leave.
>
> Bob

Agreed. Turning tables is a big part of restaurant business. If a
place is busy and a large party is just sitting there chit-chatting for
an hour neither the restaurant nor the server is going to be able to
make any money.

I certainly don't want to feel rushed when I'm dining. We don't linger
after meals. I can certainly appreciate the fact they don't want you
just sitting there taking up space.

Jill

On 2/2/2013 12:27 PM, zxcvbob wrote:
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:42:34 -0600, zxcvbob >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> notbob wrote:
>>>> Boy, this outta be good for a battle royal.
>>>> Should restaurant patrons be subject to an automatic surcharge (it's
>>>> not a tip!) for groups over a certain number?
>>>>
>>>> I think not. I once ran across this at a Chevy's. Surcharge for
>>>> parties over six ppl. For what? Why? How is serving 6 ppl at one
>>>> table more work than serving 3 ppl at two tables? And 18%! That's
>>>> almost one fifth of the total added on. It's not only unfair, it's a
>>>> rip-off, pure and simple. If it's such a chore to serve 6 ppl at one
>>>> table, perhaps the proprietor should find another line of work or have
>>>> smaller tables with a big sign out front.
>>>> BTW, how in God's name (it was church folk) did 20 ppl manage to run
>>>> up a bill of only $34 at an Applebees? Did they all order jes one
>>>> Coke? If I'd been the mgr, Ida told the entire lot to "fly away"
>>>> ....NOW!
>>>>
>>> If there's a surcharge (which ****es me off), I don't leave a tip. I
>>> tend to order cheap, but I'm a big tipper, so the waitress gets less
>>> this way.
>>>
>>> They must have each ordered just a coffee or iced tea. And then
>>> probably sat there taking up a big table for 90 minutes. If the
>>> place was almost empty, that's OK. If it was busy, manager should've
>>> asked them (after about 20 minutes) to order some food or leave.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> When I read the article, I'm sure it said that the total bill was over
>> $200.
>> Janet US
>
>
> I never saw an article, "notbob" said the bill was $34 and that's what I
> conjectured with. (maybe $34 was the forced gratuity; that would be
> about right if the bill was just under $200 before tax.)
>
> Bob

Nope. Here's the receipt:

http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2013/0...reet--20130201

Total bill, $34.93. That's not much for a large party to spend.

Jill

Jill

On 2/2/2013 2:22 PM, Kalmia wrote:
> Read the article again. They insisted on separate checks, so the 34 bucks was prob. for 2-3 people.
>
> I understand mandatory gratuity - it's to counteract the big cheapskate groups which are wont to haunt restos. I've been in those groups- some straggle in latee so they miss the appetizer part, some toss a 20 on the table and duck out early, The last guys left are the ones who get stuck making up the difference. Some shitheads don't even cover their FOOD, let alone throw in something toward a tip.
>
> This is why, if I go out with a group, I go armed with plenty of fives and ones so I can cover my portion and not get stuck, even if it means a special trip to the bank to get those small bills. Beats getting stuck and stewin about it for years, and having to smile and act like nothing happened, next time you bump into these tightwads. It's usually a couple who you thought were in the bucks - ha. Burns my rear.
>

It's the people you think who are "in the bucks" who are the tightwads.

Jill

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 23:33:46 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:43:50 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Then we hear the argument that if you can afford to go out for dinner
>>>you can afford to leave a big tip. Screw that. If they want to jack up
>>>their prices with outrageous markups I am already paying a lot for the
>>>luxury of going out to eat. For instance, we went to a place last
>>>summer where they charge $14 for glass of wine, about the same price as
>>>a whole bottle of that particular wine. That means a 500-600% markup on
>>>the wine.
>>>
>>>
>>>I am supposed to pay 15% on top of that for a service...... $12 to pour
>>>the wine into a glass and walk 20 feet to the table?? Hold it.... no,
>>>that is not enough..... it is an expensive restaurant, and if I can
>>>afford to pay their high prices I should be able to afford 20%.. Not
>>>when I am already being gouged. Sorry, but that is a racket.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>So you're going to retaliate against the lowest, most helpless figure
>>on the totem pole? You can argue your indignation against a system
>>you don't like but you don't affect the restaurant owner one iota
>>unless you stay home and don't eat out. When you eat out and pay your
>>bill, the restaurant still gets all their profit, doesn't make any
>>difference to their bottom line whether you tip or not.
>>Janet US
>
>I would not call it retaliation. I tip well for a meal, but I don't
>add 20% on the top of a bottle of wine. It may take a little bit more
>labor to bring a $30 bottle of wine than a $2 soda but one would pay
>40¢ in tip, the other $6. Fair? Is it fair to ask for a glass of
>water and leave 0¢ for a tip? That is what I often drink with my
>meal. I'm talking over the tip you'd leave for the food service of
>course.

I very rarely order bottled wine at a restaurant, if I have wine at
all it's house wine by the liter, inexpensive (like $8) and so I
consider its price as part of the total bill when calculating the tip.
The few times I order a fancy schmancy bottled wine it's served by a
sommelier, I don't tip the sommelier, the wine they serve is more than
pricey enough for management to cover their pay... plus they don't do
anything special... I'd actually prefer the joy of doing the uncorking
and pouring myself. I tip separately for bar drinks, but no large
amount, the barmaid gets a buck when each drink is served... the
bartender gets a fin for services rendered regardless the number of
drinks... I don't include the bar tab in my dining tab fo rpurposes of
tipping, they're already marked up the booze plenty high, I tip the
bar for service only, the price of what I choose to drink doesn't
enter into the calculation. If the food server brings my bar drinks I
don't tip separately per drink for that, but then I don't regularly
patronize a resto that doesn't employ a barmaid, I really don't want
the food server handling my 2ni... a barmaid will serve immediately as
the drink is made and they know how to navigate teh trip without
spilling a drop, food servers tend to be too busy to retreive drinks
in a timely fashion and so they arrive diluted/warmed and food servers
invariably slosh and spill... they serve a messy drink with a good 10%
on the tray... soon as I see that I stop ordering bar drinks and I
won't be back. In fact when entering a restaurant if I notice that
food servers are carrying bar drinks I do a quick about face.

atec77 wrote:
>sf wrote:
>>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> atec77 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder about the whole tipping thing , in this part of the world the
>>>> waiters are better paid and need not beg for a tip , seems a basic human
>>>> right to be paid fairly although it does mean the owners have to face
>>>> the reality that staff deserve a decent wage and prices remain the
>>>> affordable.

If you're looking for "affordable" eat home... you never thanked your
mommy for feeding/serving you either... you were raised *poorly*,
figuratively and literally.

I've eaten in those countrys where folks don't tip and business needs
to absorb the shortfalls... product and service reflects it... food is
poor/small and service is surly. A cafeteria would be a vast
improvement.

On 2/3/2013 8:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 02/02/2013 6:23 PM, atec77 wrote:
>
>> I wonder about the whole tipping thing , in this part of the world the
>> waiters are better paid and need not beg for a tip , seems a basic human
>> right to be paid fairly although it does mean the owners have to face
>> the reality that staff deserve a decent wage and prices remain the
>> affordable.
>
>
>
> It is a matter of delusion isn't it. People want to be able to pay $9.95
> for something because they think it is cheaper than $10. Then they
> insist on their need to leave 15% to the poor underpaid server, but they
> don't want to be charged $11.50 for the same menu selection with the
> knowledge that the server will be getting that extra $1.50.
>
Except their is no knowledge the server will be getting that extra $1.50
unless there is a mandatory gratuity. And keep in mind, we're talking
about large parties (usually 10+), not just a table for two.

Say what you will, it is a lot harder to take care of a large party.
Every time you go to the table someone else wants something. They keep
you running and, if left to their own devices, do not tip well.

The other problem is even if a server (or two) are working a large party
they usually have other another couple of tables to take care of. IMHO,
a large party monopolizes their time in silly ways and makes it nearly
impossible to take care of the other patrons. BTDT.

Jill

On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 02:44:58 -0600, "MaryL"
> wrote:

>
>
>"jmcquown" wrote in message ...
>
>On 2/2/2013 9:20 AM, notbob wrote:
>> In fact I had a boss who absolutely refused any kind of tip at
>> all. "NO! I don't tip". What an ass! We knew we'd hafta pony up to
>> cover his shortage. It got so I jes declined his invites.
>
>I used to go to lunch occasionally at one restaurant with a small group
>(4 people) of co-workers. One woman *never* tipped. She ran the server
>around like crazy and this wasn't even a large group. We usually had
>separate checks. One of us us would create a ruse when we paid and were
>leaving. We'd slip some money under this woman's plate for her share of
>the tip. There's nothing worse than going out to eat with a cheapskate
>who won't tip even for excellent service.

Normal brained folks would invite that cheapskate but once.

On 2/3/2013 8:11 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 02/02/2013 7:09 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:47:29 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I resent being expected to pay a 500-600% markup on mediocre
>>> wine and then people expected to pay a minimum 15% tip on that
>>> hyperinflated price. As I said, they were all mediocre wines.
>>
>> Oh, come on. Don't blame inflated liquor prices on the serving staff.
>> Most people tip based on the price of the food and maybe add a bit
>> more for the liquor if the staff came around and actually poured
>> "seconds" from the bottle.
>>
>
> Is it a matter of blaming the server for the price? I am just saying
> that I don't understand why I should have to leave twice as big a tip
> for a glass of wine when the restaurant has already charged me twice as
> much as it should be.

So don't order the wine.

> I have enough of an issue with the idea that I
> have to pay the same percentage on a $30 bottle of wine as I do with a
> $60 bottle. It makes it that much worse when they charge $60 for a
> bottle that should be $30. I am already getting gouged, and then I have
> to reward the server for having been involved in the gouging?

Get real! The server doesn't set the prices. Why should they be
punished for bringing you what you ordered?

Jill

On 03/02/2013 9:04 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 01:29:21 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Also some
>> (but not all) retail people get an extra percentage based on sales. There's
>> a term for that but the name escapes me.
>
> Commission?
>

It sounds too much like "committed" so it makes her nervous.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 09:43:34 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 2/2/2013 12:27 PM, zxcvbob wrote:
> > Janet Bostwick wrote:
> >>
> >> When I read the article, I'm sure it said that the total bill was over
> >> $200.
> >> Janet US
> >
> >
> > I never saw an article, "notbob" said the bill was $34 and that's what I
> > conjectured with. (maybe $34 was the forced gratuity; that would be
> > about right if the bill was just under $200 before tax.)
> >
> > Bob
>
> Nope. Here's the receipt:
>
> http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2013/0...reet--20130201
>
> Total bill, $34.93. That's not much for a large party to spend.
>
That's only a small part of the bill. The pastor had the waitress
break the original one into smaller parts to avoid the automatic
gratuity charge.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 09:46:18 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 2/2/2013 2:22 PM, Kalmia wrote:
> > Read the article again. They insisted on separate checks, so the 34 bucks was prob. for 2-3 people.
> >
> > I understand mandatory gratuity - it's to counteract the big cheapskate groups which are wont to haunt restos. I've been in those groups- some straggle in latee so they miss the appetizer part, some toss a 20 on the table and duck out early, The last guys left are the ones who get stuck making up the difference. Some shitheads don't even cover their FOOD, let alone throw in something toward a tip.
> >
> > This is why, if I go out with a group, I go armed with plenty of fives and ones so I can cover my portion and not get stuck, even if it means a special trip to the bank to get those small bills. Beats getting stuck and stewin about it for years, and having to smile and act like nothing happened, next time you bump into these tightwads. It's usually a couple who you thought were in the bucks - ha. Burns my rear.
> >
>
> It's the people you think who are "in the bucks" who are the tightwads.
>
They didn't get their bucks by giving their money away!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 03/02/2013 9:05 AM, sf wrote:
Don't blame inflated liquor prices on the serving staff.
>>> Most people tip based on the price of the food and maybe add a bit
>>> more for the liquor if the staff came around and actually poured
>>> "seconds" from the bottle.
>>>
>>
>> Is it a matter of blaming the server for the price? I am just saying
>> that I don't understand why I should have to leave twice as big a tip
>> for a glass of wine when the restaurant has already charged me twice as
>> much as it should be. I have enough of an issue with the idea that I
>> have to pay the same percentage on a $30 bottle of wine as I do with a
>> $60 bottle. It makes it that much worse when they charge $60 for a
>> bottle that should be $30. I am already getting gouged, and then I have
>> to reward the server for having been involved in the gouging?
>
> Why are you including the price of alcohol in the tip? Don't.
>


?? First you chastise me for blaming the servers for the inflated
prices and then you tell me not to include the alcohol when calculating
the tip? I believe that it is has been established that, at least
around here, the minimum wage for people who serve alcohol is less than
the general minimum wage.

On 03/02/2013 9:06 AM, Gary wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> That's true. They are not the US. Neither am I in the US. Having been
>> in Germany several times and service has always been excellent, and no
>> tip expected. Waiters make a decent money without it, and you don't get
>> all that idiotic tip soliciting behaviour, like coming by and pouring
>> more wine for you every time you take a zip, no refilling your water.
>> When I go for a meal it is for the food and for the company of my
>> friends, not to have a server fluttering about looking for ways to get a
>> bigger tip.
>
> Dave, you're just a tightwad and most restaurants would be happy for you to
> just stay at home. You sound like the small percentage of patrons that they
> would probably not ever want to see again. ehehh


Why? Because I am willing to pay a higher menu price, one that would
automatically include service? Because I am not impressed with a server
coming by and topping up my water every few minutes? I am there for
food and to enjoy the company of my friends, not to have a waiter
fluttering about trying to impress me. Take my order, bring my food.