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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:22:48 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 12/26/2012 2:58 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>
>>> I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors of
>>> cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and lemon;
>>> which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?

>>
>> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
>>
>> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
>> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
>> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
>> and a little lemon.
>>
>> Steve
>>

>If I happened to have those ingredients on hand, sure, I'd make my own.
> I have Worcestershire sauce, no ketchup (surprise!). I don't have any
>prepared horseradish sitting around, either. (I even forgot to buy any
>when I picked up the rib roast.)
>
>Jill

I think if we were allowed to rummage around in each other's kitchens
and pantry, we could pretty much guess what kinds of food the cook
prepares most. My pantry is stocked for my usual stuff and will get
me through the Americas without much difficulty. As soon as I venture
into foods of the Middle East or Asia, I have to go shopping. Then I
begin to have a collection of spices and bottles and dry goods that
don't get used much or ever again.
Janet US
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:37:20 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

>Bryan wrote:
>
>>> I personally don't put kethup in my meat loaf but same as 90% of
> >> everyone else very often put ketchup ON meat loaf...can't eat a cold
>>> meat loaf sandwich without.

>>
>> That's where ketchup belongs, on, not in. I agree 100% that "ketchup
> > is a perfectly legitimate condiment."

>
>I use ketchup in meatloaf because the recipe I follow uses it, and I'm
>extremely happy with the recipe. Your blanket condemnation seems
>unreasonably limiting to me, and I reject it.
>
>Bob

Will you share your recipe? My meatloaf is the plain, middle US
variety. I recently tried Alton Brown's recipe and thought that I
found it too seasoned (maybe salty) for my taste. However, it made
the best darn meatloaf sandwiches. I've heard of putting catsup
(ketchup) on meatloaf while baking, but never heard of it as an
ingredient. I'd like to try it and see.
thanks
Janet US
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On 12/26/2012 10:43 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:22:48 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/26/2012 2:58 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors of
>>>> cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and lemon;
>>>> which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
>>>
>>> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
>>>
>>> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
>>> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
>>> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
>>> and a little lemon.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>

>> If I happened to have those ingredients on hand, sure, I'd make my own.
>> I have Worcestershire sauce, no ketchup (surprise!). I don't have any
>> prepared horseradish sitting around, either. (I even forgot to buy any
>> when I picked up the rib roast.)
>>
>> Jill

> I think if we were allowed to rummage around in each other's kitchens
> and pantry, we could pretty much guess what kinds of food the cook
> prepares most. My pantry is stocked for my usual stuff and will get
> me through the Americas without much difficulty. As soon as I venture
> into foods of the Middle East or Asia, I have to go shopping. Then I
> begin to have a collection of spices and bottles and dry goods that
> don't get used much or ever again.
> Janet US
>

Agreed. I keep a stock of things I use regularly, nothing terribly
exotic. (If I want Chinese or Thai food I'll go to a restaurant rather
than buy a bunch of stuff I might not use for another ten years, if ever.)

Jill
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On 12/26/2012 9:39 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and
>>> onion' dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean?
>>> Sorry about that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something
>>> specific
>>>

>> She spent too much time in Japan Yes, you could use that sage &
>> onion dried breadcrumb mixture. Or anything you'd use to stuff a
>> turkey

>
> Ahhhhh understood) Thanks I have a piece of rump beef in the
> freezer. I will mince/grind it ... what would you add? Should I mince
> some pork too?
>
> I have most veggies, I have mushroom ketchup (not thick like tomato
> ketchup) It is more like Worcester sauce, I do have Worcester sauce
> too. I have fresh onion, dried onions, oatmeal, homemade fresh whole
> meal breadcrumbs ... I have dried herbs ..
>
> What do you think? I shall try a couple of the recipes posted here, but
> for the moment, using what I have in ...?
>
> --
> http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/


I would definitely mince some pork, too. Some people don't like oatmeal
in their meatloaf. For a first attempt I'd use the homemade breadcrumbs
and a little of the mushroom ketchup. Definitely chopped onion,
although if the meat mixture is fatty enough enough dried onions would
also work. (Of course the mushroom ketchup and egg will add to the
moisture content.) The herbs would be entirely a matter of what you like.

Jill
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/26/2012 9:39 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and
>>>> onion' dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean?
>>>> Sorry about that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something
>>>> specific
>>>>
>>> She spent too much time in Japan Yes, you could use that sage &
>>> onion dried breadcrumb mixture. Or anything you'd use to stuff a
>>> turkey

>>
>> Ahhhhh understood) Thanks I have a piece of rump beef in the
>> freezer. I will mince/grind it ... what would you add? Should I mince
>> some pork too?
>>
>> I have most veggies, I have mushroom ketchup (not thick like tomato
>> ketchup) It is more like Worcester sauce, I do have Worcester sauce
>> too. I have fresh onion, dried onions, oatmeal, homemade fresh whole
>> meal breadcrumbs ... I have dried herbs ..
>>
>> What do you think? I shall try a couple of the recipes posted here, but
>> for the moment, using what I have in ...?

>
> I would definitely mince some pork, too. Some people don't like oatmeal
> in their meatloaf. For a first attempt I'd use the homemade breadcrumbs
> and a little of the mushroom ketchup. Definitely chopped onion, although
> if the meat mixture is fatty enough enough dried onions would also work.
> (Of course the mushroom ketchup and egg will add to the moisture content.)
> The herbs would be entirely a matter of what you like.


Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For how
long
and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the thing,
but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...


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On 12/26/2012 11:14 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 12/26/2012 9:39 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and
>>>>> onion' dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean?
>>>>> Sorry about that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something
>>>>> specific
>>>>>
>>>> She spent too much time in Japan Yes, you could use that sage &
>>>> onion dried breadcrumb mixture. Or anything you'd use to stuff a
>>>> turkey
>>>
>>> Ahhhhh understood) Thanks I have a piece of rump beef in the
>>> freezer. I will mince/grind it ... what would you add? Should I mince
>>> some pork too?
>>>
>>> I have most veggies, I have mushroom ketchup (not thick like tomato
>>> ketchup) It is more like Worcester sauce, I do have Worcester sauce
>>> too. I have fresh onion, dried onions, oatmeal, homemade fresh whole
>>> meal breadcrumbs ... I have dried herbs ..
>>>
>>> What do you think? I shall try a couple of the recipes posted here, but
>>> for the moment, using what I have in ...?

>>
>> I would definitely mince some pork, too. Some people don't like
>> oatmeal in their meatloaf. For a first attempt I'd use the homemade
>> breadcrumbs and a little of the mushroom ketchup. Definitely chopped
>> onion, although if the meat mixture is fatty enough enough dried
>> onions would also work. (Of course the mushroom ketchup and egg will
>> add to the moisture content.) The herbs would be entirely a matter of
>> what you like.

>
> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
> how long
> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
> thing,
> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>
>

As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in
a bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of
rack you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of
bread and bake it on the rack.

Jill
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

>> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
>> how long
>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>> thing,
>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>>
>>

> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in a
> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of rack
> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
> and bake it on the rack.


I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit, with
nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could just
pour off the fat?


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On 12/26/2012 11:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message


>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in a
>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of rack
>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>> and bake it on the rack.

>
> I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit,
> with
> nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
> would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could
> just pour off the fat?
>

That's what used to do. Now I generally make mini-loaves in a silicone
cupcake pan. I sit the pan(s) on a rimmed baking sheet, to make for
safer handling and to contain any fat.
Any fat pours off easily.

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Steve Pope wrote:

> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS),


Are you claiming you can distinguish between HFCS and sugar
in K E T C H U P? Seriously?

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"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/26/2012 11:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message

>
>>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in
>>> a
>>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of
>>> rack
>>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>>> and bake it on the rack.

>>
>> I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit,
>> with
>> nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
>> would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could
>> just pour off the fat?
>>

> That's what used to do. Now I generally make mini-loaves in a silicone
> cupcake pan. I sit the pan(s) on a rimmed baking sheet, to make for safer
> handling and to contain any fat.
> Any fat pours off easily.


That does sound much easier! Temp and time?

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:36:00 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > "cshenk" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >>
> >>> Please would posters here be so kind as to share their favourite meat
> >>> loaf recipes? I have tried a couple and didn't like them much.
> >>> Reading here I see that it is a favourite for many and I would love
> >>> to find something really good
> >>
> >> Here's a basic Don does. It's more of a swap on any standard meatloaf
> >> recipe. Instead of bread crumbs, bread, crackers or rice, try using
> >> 'stuffing' such as pepperidge farm herb or stovetop.

> >
> > I am afraid this is unknown to me
> >
> >
> > Yes you can make
> >> your own batch too but this is one of those not very expensive time
> >> savers.

> >
> > Oh I don't mind expensive and time consuming ... well, to a degree I
> > just want to make something we like
> >
> >
> >> Another trick, don't use too low fat of a meat or if all you have is
> >> 94% fat-free beef, mix 1/4 ground pork with it.

> >
> > Noted!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Consider canned or jarred mushrooms over fresh as they will not dry out
> >> the loaf like fresh will. If you must use fresh, use King Oyster stem
> >> parts for optimal results.
> >>
> >> These tricks can be applied to any standard recipe you see.
> >>
> >> Here's a fairly standard approach.
> >>
> >> 2 lbs ground beef (or 1.75 beef, .25 pork)
> >> 1.5 cups stuffing mix
> >> 1 med onion, chopped fine (carmelize lightly first in some beef or pork
> >> fat if desired)
> >> 1/2 cup 'sauce' (I like May Ploy here, others use tomato stuff)
> >> 2 jumbo eggs or 3 'large'
> >> 1 TB worstershire sauce
> >>
> >> I usually top with either more Mae Ploy or Jufran Bannana sauce
> >>
> >> You can add other spices but that's a basic one.

> >
> > Many thanks for that! However I don't know what May Ploy or Jufran
> > Bannana sauce' are, nor 'stuffing mix'
> > If you had no 'stuffing mix' what would you use instead?

>
> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and onion'
> dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean? Sorry about
> that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something specific
>
> --

Do you never use Google Images to figure these things out?

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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 08:58:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> Meat loaf is on the lowest tier of American foods. It is a slop trough where *creative* folks dump in a little of this, a little of that, packets of dried soup mix, ketchup, and any number of horrors. Read on, and you'll see.


If you put meatloaf in a double pie crust, you could call it
"tourtiere" and then all would be right with the world.

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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:36:00 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >
>> > "cshenk" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>> >>
>> >>> Please would posters here be so kind as to share their favourite meat
>> >>> loaf recipes? I have tried a couple and didn't like them much.
>> >>> Reading here I see that it is a favourite for many and I would love
>> >>> to find something really good
>> >>
>> >> Here's a basic Don does. It's more of a swap on any standard meatloaf
>> >> recipe. Instead of bread crumbs, bread, crackers or rice, try using
>> >> 'stuffing' such as pepperidge farm herb or stovetop.
>> >
>> > I am afraid this is unknown to me
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes you can make
>> >> your own batch too but this is one of those not very expensive time
>> >> savers.
>> >
>> > Oh I don't mind expensive and time consuming ... well, to a degree I
>> > just want to make something we like
>> >
>> >
>> >> Another trick, don't use too low fat of a meat or if all you have is
>> >> 94% fat-free beef, mix 1/4 ground pork with it.
>> >
>> > Noted!
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Consider canned or jarred mushrooms over fresh as they will not dry
>> >> out
>> >> the loaf like fresh will. If you must use fresh, use King Oyster stem
>> >> parts for optimal results.
>> >>
>> >> These tricks can be applied to any standard recipe you see.
>> >>
>> >> Here's a fairly standard approach.
>> >>
>> >> 2 lbs ground beef (or 1.75 beef, .25 pork)
>> >> 1.5 cups stuffing mix
>> >> 1 med onion, chopped fine (carmelize lightly first in some beef or
>> >> pork
>> >> fat if desired)
>> >> 1/2 cup 'sauce' (I like May Ploy here, others use tomato stuff)
>> >> 2 jumbo eggs or 3 'large'
>> >> 1 TB worstershire sauce
>> >>
>> >> I usually top with either more Mae Ploy or Jufran Bannana sauce
>> >>
>> >> You can add other spices but that's a basic one.
>> >
>> > Many thanks for that! However I don't know what May Ploy or Jufran
>> > Bannana sauce' are, nor 'stuffing mix'
>> > If you had no 'stuffing mix' what would you use instead?

>>
>> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and onion'
>> dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean? Sorry about
>> that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something specific
>>
>> --

> Do you never use Google Images to figure these things out?


Sure, but if I do only that, what it the point of a cooking group? Do you
not prefer to hear the experiences of others? Let us all go to google and
ignore the group?
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 13:13:28 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 12/25/2012 11:58 AM, Bryan wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 23, 2012 4:52:51 PM UTC-6, Ophelia wrote:
> >> Please would posters here be so kind as to share their favourite meat loaf
> >>
> >> recipes? I have tried a couple and didn't like them much. Reading here I
> >>
> >> see that it is a favourite for many and I would love to find something
> >>
> >> really good
> >>

> > Meat loaf is on the lowest tier of American foods. It is a slop trough where *creative* folks dump in a little of this, a little of that, packets of dried soup mix, ketchup, and any number of horrors. Read on, and you'll see.
> >
> > --Bryan
> >

> I have a fairly consistent method for meatloaf and it doesn't involve
> dried soup mix. I saute whatever fresh vegetables I have on hand
> ("mustgovian" onion, bell pepper, celery, carrots, garlic.) The binder
> I use isn't bread, dried crumbs or soda crackers. I like oatmeal. YMMV.
> I do add cubed pieces of sharp cheese sometimes. I don't like meat
> loaf topped with tomato sauce. That seems to be a popular US thing. I
> have made it with a little bottled seafood cocktail sauce mixed in.
>

I used to use dried onion soup mix and it was very tasty. I haven't
in the last big number of years because I just don't buy that stuff
anymore, not because I'm so adamantly against it. And I use egg, not
grain, to bind because I discovered a long time ago that it's the
large amount of bread/cracker/oatmeal part that I didn't like about
meatloaf. No point spending time (or money) making something you
don't like and that was easy enough to fix.


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On 12/26/2012 11:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
>>> how long
>>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>>> thing,
>>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>>>
>>>

>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in a
>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of rack
>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>> and bake it on the rack.

>
> I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit,
> with
> nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
> would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could
> just
> pour off the fat?
>
>

Yes, you could, and I did so for years because that's the way my mother
made meat loaf.

I have since learned to make a better meat loaf on a rack over a
roasting pan. I really do want the meat loaf mixture to be fairly
stiff. The binders (breadcrumbs, eggs) help with that. The other
things are just for adding flavour. No, it can't be too moist when you
bake it on a rack.

Jill


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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/26/2012 11:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
>>>> how long
>>>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>>>> thing,
>>>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in
>>> a
>>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of
>>> rack
>>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>>> and bake it on the rack.

>>
>> I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit,
>> with
>> nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
>> would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could
>> just
>> pour off the fat?
>>
>>

> Yes, you could, and I did so for years because that's the way my mother
> made meat loaf.
>
> I have since learned to make a better meat loaf on a rack over a roasting
> pan. I really do want the meat loaf mixture to be fairly stiff. The
> binders (breadcrumbs, eggs) help with that. The other things are just for
> adding flavour. No, it can't be too moist when you bake it on a rack.


Understood! Thanks
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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:14:22 -0000, "Ophelia" ku>
wrote:

> Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For how long
> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the thing,
> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...



I started off baking meatloaf in a bread pan (if you decide to use
one, place it on a cookie sheet), but I was never fond of bread shaped
meatloaf so I graduated to using my cast iron pans. For a 2 lb
meatloaf, I'd use my biggest cast iron (which is 11 inches or 28 cm
measured from the inside) and form it into an 8 inch/20cm flattened
round). A two pound meatloaf would take about an hour at 350°-375°
and should reach an internal temperature of 160° (with no hint of
pink). HTH

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:17:14 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> Hmmm thinking about 'stuffing mix' we do have stuff like 'sage and
> >> onion' dried and mixed with dry breadcrumbs. Is that what you mean?
> >> Sorry about that. I suppose I was thinking you meant something specific
> >>

> > She spent too much time in Japan Yes, you could use that sage & onion
> > dried breadcrumb mixture. Or anything you'd use to stuff a turkey

>
> Ahhhhh understood) Thanks I have a piece of rump beef in the freezer.
> I will mince/grind it ... what would you add? Should I mince some pork too?
>
> I have most veggies, I have mushroom ketchup (not thick like tomato ketchup)
> It is more like Worcester sauce, I do have Worcester sauce too. I have
> fresh onion, dried onions, dried herbs, garlic chopped in white wine
> vinegar, oatmeal,
> fresh whole wheat homemade breadcrumbs
>
> I shall try a couple of the recipes posted here, but for the moment, using
> what I have in ...?
>
> What do you think?


I think it's a great starting point and don't forget the fat, it's a
necessary evil in meatloaf.

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:43:41 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> As soon as I venture
> into foods of the Middle East or Asia, I have to go shopping. Then I
> begin to have a collection of spices and bottles and dry goods that
> don't get used much or ever again.


Yep. My refrigerator is bursting with herbs and spices, some used
more than others... but I'll be darned if I'm going to buy and store
all the components for some curry or middle eastern spice mix when I
can buy it as fresh as if I made it myself... which is one of the
benefits of city life.

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:47:43 -0700, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> I've heard of putting catsup
> (ketchup) on meatloaf while baking, but never heard of it as an
> ingredient. I'd like to try it and see.


I tried a variation on the theme (commercial marinara sauce) the last
time I made meatloaf and what a delicious difference! I'd guesstimate
and say to use no more than 1/4 cup to two pounds.

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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:28:55 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

> Bryan replied to Jill:
>
> >> I have made it with a little bottled seafood cocktail sauce mixed in.
> >>

> > "Bottled seafood cocktail sauce mixed in" falls into the "horrors" category.

>
> I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors of
> cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and lemon;
> which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
>

I think cocktail sauce would be fine, but I prefer to use chili sauce
because I always have that on hand - cocktail sauce would be a
"special occasion buy" for me. I learned last time around that I also
like a well flavored (commercial) Marinara sauce.

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:42 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
> ...
> > Bryan > wrote:
> >>
> >>Meat loaf is on the lowest tier of American foods. It is a slop trough
> >>where *creative* folks dump in a little of this,

> > a little of that, packets of dried soup mix, ketchup, and any number
> > of horrors. Read on, and you'll see.
> >
> > Slop describes all your cooking. My meatloaf is a cullinary
> > masterpiece, begins with personally selected meat cuts I grind myself.
> > Every added ingredient is fresh and I use no packaged soups. The one
> > caveat is that it is NOT POSSIBLE to make decent meat loaf from
> > preground mystery meat, just isn't. Btw, ketchup is a perfectly
> > legitimate condiment... every eatery on the planet offers ketchup,
> > hardly a burger eaten without, and a burger is essentially a meat loaf
> > in patty format. I personally don't put kethup in my meat loaf but
> > same as 90% of everyone else I very often put ketchup ON meat loaf...
> > can't eat a cold meat loaf sandwich without.

>
> What do you mix in with your meat ... if anything?
>

Try those mushrooms Pandora mentioned.


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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:57:22 -0000, "Ophelia" ku>
wrote:

>
>
>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
>>> how long
>>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>>> thing,
>>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>>>
>>>

>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in a
>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of rack
>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>> and bake it on the rack.

>
>I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit, with
>nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
>would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could just
>pour off the fat?
>
>
>--

The mixture should be firm enough that it can hold a shape without
support.
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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:14:22 -0000, "Ophelia" ku>
> wrote:
>
>> Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For how long
>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>> thing,
>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...

>
>
> I started off baking meatloaf in a bread pan (if you decide to use
> one, place it on a cookie sheet), but I was never fond of bread shaped
> meatloaf so I graduated to using my cast iron pans. For a 2 lb
> meatloaf, I'd use my biggest cast iron (which is 11 inches or 28 cm
> measured from the inside) and form it into an 8 inch/20cm flattened
> round). A two pound meatloaf would take about an hour at 350°-375°
> and should reach an internal temperature of 160° (with no hint of
> pink). HTH


Ace! Thanks!
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"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:57:22 -0000, "Ophelia" ku>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>> Excellent! Thanks you) Now. The cooking bit. In a loaf tin? For
>>>> how long
>>>> and at what temp, please? I realise it will depend on the size of the
>>>> thing,
>>>> but if I put in into a two pound loaf tin ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> As some others have mentioned, if the meat is fatty, meat loaf baked in
>>> a
>>> bread/loaf tin will be swimming in grease. Do you have some sort of
>>> rack
>>> you could put over a baking pan? Form the mixture like a loaf of bread
>>> and bake it on the rack.

>>
>>I do ... but it is not likely to disintegrate until it is cooked a bit,
>>with
>>nothing to hold it together? Hmmm I hadn't though about that. The mix
>>would need to be very stiff. I suppose if I used the loaf tin, I could
>>just
>>pour off the fat?
>>
>>
>>--

> The mixture should be firm enough that it can hold a shape without
> support.


Ok! Thanks)
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On 12/26/2012 12:10 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "S Viemeister" > wrote


>> That's what i used to do. Now I generally make mini-loaves in a silicone
>> cupcake pan. I sit the pan(s) on a rimmed baking sheet, to make for
>> safer handling and to contain any fat.
>> Any fat pours off easily.

>
> That does sound much easier! Temp and time?
>

180C for about 40-50 minutes - it really depends on the size - smaller
cups will take less time, wider, deeper ones will take more.

I generally make a large batch, then freeze and bag them for later use.
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"S Viemeister" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/26/2012 12:10 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "S Viemeister" > wrote

>
>>> That's what i used to do. Now I generally make mini-loaves in a silicone
>>> cupcake pan. I sit the pan(s) on a rimmed baking sheet, to make for
>>> safer handling and to contain any fat.
>>> Any fat pours off easily.

>>
>> That does sound much easier! Temp and time?
>>

> 180C for about 40-50 minutes - it really depends on the size - smaller
> cups will take less time, wider, deeper ones will take more.
>
> I generally make a large batch, then freeze and bag them for later use.


Ace! Thanks I might make single ones to begin until I find a recipe that
we like, but after that ...

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Steve Pope wrote:

>> I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors of
>> cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and lemon;
>> which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?

>
> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.


Not if it's a good-quality cocktail sauce. And such things *do* exist.


> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
> and a little lemon.


I'm going to disagree on the HFCS: Since it's sweeter than sugar, you'd
need less HFCS to make the ketchup than if it had been made with sugar.
HFCS is evil in many things, but I think it's not evil in ketchup.

Bob


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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:42 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
.. .
>> Bryan > wrote:
>>>
>>>Meat loaf is on the lowest tier of American foods. It is a slop trough
>>>where *creative* folks dump in a little of this,

>> a little of that, packets of dried soup mix, ketchup, and any number
>> of horrors. Read on, and you'll see.
>>
>> Slop describes all your cooking. My meatloaf is a cullinary
>> masterpiece, begins with personally selected meat cuts I grind myself.
>> Every added ingredient is fresh and I use no packaged soups. The one
>> caveat is that it is NOT POSSIBLE to make decent meat loaf from
>> preground mystery meat, just isn't. Btw, ketchup is a perfectly
>> legitimate condiment... every eatery on the planet offers ketchup,
>> hardly a burger eaten without, and a burger is essentially a meat loaf
>> in patty format. I personally don't put kethup in my meat loaf but
>> same as 90% of everyone else I very often put ketchup ON meat loaf...
>> can't eat a cold meat loaf sandwich without.

>
>What do you mix in with your meat ... if anything?


I don't have a meat loaf recipe. Could contain just about anything,
what I add to meat loaf depends on my mood and what's available. Since
I'm grinding meat anyway it's easy to add anything, just put it into
the grinder along with the meat; whatever veggies and whatever baked
goods for crumbs. I typically add two large eggs per pound of meat.
I like to add some beer too. I almost always grind in some raw
potato, maybe raw carrot, raw celery, raw bell pepper. I add some raw
onion but also some Penzeys dehy toasted onions. Seasoning is s n'p
of course, and whatever herbs strike my mood. I never meassure
anything other than the meat, I never make a meat loaf with less than
five pounds of meat. A few months ago along with fivee pounds of top
round beef I ground in a 12 ounce can of Hormel SPAM... don't laugh,
it was superb.
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Ophelia replied to Jill:

>> I have a fairly consistent method for meatloaf and it doesn't involve
>> dried soup mix. I saute whatever fresh vegetables I have on hand
>> ("mustgovian" onion, bell pepper, celery, carrots, garlic.) The binder
>> I use isn't bread, dried crumbs or soda crackers. I like oatmeal.
>> YMMV. I do add cubed pieces of sharp cheese sometimes. I don't like
>> meat loaf topped with tomato sauce. That seems to be a popular US
>> thing. I have made it with a little bottled seafood cocktail sauce
>> mixed in.

>
> Somethings to think on. Thanks, Jill.


I think you might want to experiment: Try that recipe with oatmeal, then
try it with bread crumbs. Oatmeal often makes meatloaf slimy and gummy,
but some people are okay with that, especially when you consider
oatmeal's purported health benefits.

Bob
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Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> I use ketchup in meatloaf because the recipe I follow uses it, and I'm
>> extremely happy with the recipe. Your blanket condemnation seems
>> unreasonably limiting to me, and I reject it.
>>

> Will you share your recipe? My meatloaf is the plain, middle US
> variety. I recently tried Alton Brown's recipe and thought that I
> found it too seasoned (maybe salty) for my taste. However, it made
> the best darn meatloaf sandwiches. I've heard of putting catsup
> (ketchup) on meatloaf while baking, but never heard of it as an
> ingredient. I'd like to try it and see.
> thanks


This is from _The New Basics_
(http://www.amazon.com/New-Basics-Coo.../dp/B005M4AB9Y)

Market Street Meat Loaf

3 tablespoons unsalted butter
3/4 cup finely chopped onion
3/4 cup finely chopped scallions, white and 3 inches green
1/2 cup finely chopped carrots
1/4 cup finely chopped celery
1/4 cup minced red bell pepper
1/4 cup minced green bell pepper
2 teaspoons minced garlic
3 eggs
Salt, to taste
1 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon ground white pepper
1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1 teaspoon ground cumin
1/2 teaspoon freshly grated nutmeg
1/2 cup catsup
1/2 cup half-and-half
2 pounds lean ground beef chuck
12 ounces sausage meat (not fennel-flavored Italian sausage)
3/4 cup fine fresh bread crumbs, toasted

Melt the butter in a heavy skillet and add all the vegetables. Cook,
stirring often, until the moisture has evaporated from the vegetables,
about 10 minutes. Set aside to cool, then refrigerate, covered, until
chilled, at least one hour.

Preheat the oven to 375°F.

Put the eggs in a mixing bowl and beat well. Add the salt, black pepper,
white pepper, cayenne pepper, cumin, and nutmeg, and beat until
well-combined. Add the catsup and half-and-half; blend thoroughly.

Add the chuck, sausage meat, and bread crumbs to the egg mixture. Then
add the chilled vegetables and mix with your hands, kneading for 5 minutes.

With damp hands, form the mixture into an oval 17 x 4 1/2 x 1 1/2 inches
-- resembling a long loaf of bread. [HA! Not like any bread *I* ever baked!]

Place the meat loaf into a baking dish and place the baking dish inside
a larger pan. Place the nested pans into the oven. Pour boiling water
into the larger pan until it comes halfway up the sides of the baking dish.

Bake for 35 to 40 minutes. Remove the baking dish from the water bath
and allow the meat loaf to rest for 20 minutes before slicing and serving.

[NOTE: I don't bother with the water bath. Sometimes I make this in a
loaf pan, other times I use a sheet pan.]

Bob
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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:16:38 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:58:43 +0000 (UTC),
> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
> >
> >> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors of
> >> >cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and lemon;
> >> >which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
> >>
> >> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
> >>
> >> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
> >> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
> >> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
> >> and a little lemon.
> >>

> > Oh, Pulleeze... HFCS? Bryan is all we can handle at the moment.
> > It's meatloaf, which is cheap and fast, not pretentious and fussy. In
> > any case, Ophelia doesn't like anything with any amount of heat, so
> > she won't buy horseradish and probably wouldn't like cocktail sauce
> > anyway. Chili sauce, Marinara sauce, tomato ketchup, or plain old
> > tomato sauce is more her speed.

>
> You have me 'almost' right ... no chili <g>
> --

Traditional American style chili sauce doesn't contain a single (hot)
chili! GIYF. It is tomatoes, onions, (bell) peppers, vinegar, sugar
and various seasonings simmered together and reduced until thick.

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"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> Ophelia replied to Jill:
>
>>> I have a fairly consistent method for meatloaf and it doesn't involve
>>> dried soup mix. I saute whatever fresh vegetables I have on hand
>>> ("mustgovian" onion, bell pepper, celery, carrots, garlic.) The binder
>>> I use isn't bread, dried crumbs or soda crackers. I like oatmeal.
>>> YMMV. I do add cubed pieces of sharp cheese sometimes. I don't like
>>> meat loaf topped with tomato sauce. That seems to be a popular US
>>> thing. I have made it with a little bottled seafood cocktail sauce
>>> mixed in.

>>
>> Somethings to think on. Thanks, Jill.

>
> I think you might want to experiment: Try that recipe with oatmeal, then
> try it with bread crumbs. Oatmeal often makes meatloaf slimy and gummy,
> but some people are okay with that, especially when you consider oatmeal's
> purported health benefits.


I will.
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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:16:38 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:58:43 +0000 (UTC),
>> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors
>> >> >of
>> >> >cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and
>> >> >lemon;
>> >> >which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
>> >>
>> >> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
>> >>
>> >> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
>> >> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
>> >> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
>> >> and a little lemon.
>> >>
>> > Oh, Pulleeze... HFCS? Bryan is all we can handle at the moment.
>> > It's meatloaf, which is cheap and fast, not pretentious and fussy. In
>> > any case, Ophelia doesn't like anything with any amount of heat, so
>> > she won't buy horseradish and probably wouldn't like cocktail sauce
>> > anyway. Chili sauce, Marinara sauce, tomato ketchup, or plain old
>> > tomato sauce is more her speed.

>>
>> You have me 'almost' right ... no chili <g>
>> --

> Traditional American style chili sauce doesn't contain a single (hot)
> chili! GIYF. It is tomatoes, onions, (bell) peppers, vinegar, sugar
> and various seasonings simmered together and reduced until thick.


But, but, but chilis are peppers ... they may not seem hot to you!
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"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:42 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
. ..
>>> Bryan > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Meat loaf is on the lowest tier of American foods. It is a slop trough
>>>>where *creative* folks dump in a little of this,
>>> a little of that, packets of dried soup mix, ketchup, and any number
>>> of horrors. Read on, and you'll see.
>>>
>>> Slop describes all your cooking. My meatloaf is a cullinary
>>> masterpiece, begins with personally selected meat cuts I grind myself.
>>> Every added ingredient is fresh and I use no packaged soups. The one
>>> caveat is that it is NOT POSSIBLE to make decent meat loaf from
>>> preground mystery meat, just isn't. Btw, ketchup is a perfectly
>>> legitimate condiment... every eatery on the planet offers ketchup,
>>> hardly a burger eaten without, and a burger is essentially a meat loaf
>>> in patty format. I personally don't put kethup in my meat loaf but
>>> same as 90% of everyone else I very often put ketchup ON meat loaf...
>>> can't eat a cold meat loaf sandwich without.

>>
>>What do you mix in with your meat ... if anything?

>
> I don't have a meat loaf recipe. Could contain just about anything,
> what I add to meat loaf depends on my mood and what's available. Since
> I'm grinding meat anyway it's easy to add anything, just put it into
> the grinder along with the meat; whatever veggies and whatever baked
> goods for crumbs. I typically add two large eggs per pound of meat.
> I like to add some beer too. I almost always grind in some raw
> potato, maybe raw carrot, raw celery, raw bell pepper. I add some raw
> onion but also some Penzeys dehy toasted onions. Seasoning is s n'p
> of course, and whatever herbs strike my mood. I never meassure
> anything other than the meat, I never make a meat loaf with less than
> five pounds of meat. A few months ago along with fivee pounds of top
> round beef I ground in a 12 ounce can of Hormel SPAM... don't laugh,
> it was superb.


well I don't know about spam <g> but I have a nice piece of rump in the
freezer. With that and some pork I reckon i can get a 2lb loaf for a first
try.
I take on board your suggestion about mincing some potato in with it. I
might stick to what I have learned so far for my first attempt, and then add
stuff once I get used to it. I like the idea of beer too and I have take on
board the eggs.

Thanks! <saved>

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On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:52:15 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:16:38 -0000, "Ophelia"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:58:43 +0000 (UTC),
>>> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent flavors
>>> >> >of
>>> >> >cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and
>>> >> >lemon;
>>> >> >which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
>>> >>
>>> >> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
>>> >> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
>>> >> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
>>> >> and a little lemon.
>>> >>
>>> > Oh, Pulleeze... HFCS? Bryan is all we can handle at the moment.
>>> > It's meatloaf, which is cheap and fast, not pretentious and fussy. In
>>> > any case, Ophelia doesn't like anything with any amount of heat, so
>>> > she won't buy horseradish and probably wouldn't like cocktail sauce
>>> > anyway. Chili sauce, Marinara sauce, tomato ketchup, or plain old
>>> > tomato sauce is more her speed.
>>>
>>> You have me 'almost' right ... no chili <g>
>>> --

>> Traditional American style chili sauce doesn't contain a single (hot)
>> chili! GIYF. It is tomatoes, onions, (bell) peppers, vinegar, sugar
>> and various seasonings simmered together and reduced until thick.

>
>But, but, but chilis are peppers ... they may not seem hot to you!
>--

Sf is saying it contains sweet capsicum. In the US, we call all the
capsicum "peppers." We recognize hot or sweet (meaning not hot).
There are several styles of "not hot." You may be more familiar with
the Italian peppers, often used for frying, grilling, cooking and
eaten fresh. They actually do have a somewhat sweet taste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsicum

Janet US
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"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:52:15 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:16:38 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> > On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:58:43 +0000 (UTC),
>>>> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >I think that must depend on the cocktail sauce. The prominent
>>>> >> >flavors
>>>> >> >of
>>>> >> >cocktail sauce are horseradish, tomato, Worcestershire sauce, and
>>>> >> >lemon;
>>>> >> >which of those do you think doesn't belong with meatloaf?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You left out "bottle". That's a flavor element all by itself.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's quite easy to whip together a superior product from
>>>> >> commercial ketchup (pick a good one, no HFCS), Wochestershire,
>>>> >> prepared horseradish (again pick a good one, no bisulfites),
>>>> >> and a little lemon.
>>>> >>
>>>> > Oh, Pulleeze... HFCS? Bryan is all we can handle at the moment.
>>>> > It's meatloaf, which is cheap and fast, not pretentious and fussy.
>>>> > In
>>>> > any case, Ophelia doesn't like anything with any amount of heat, so
>>>> > she won't buy horseradish and probably wouldn't like cocktail sauce
>>>> > anyway. Chili sauce, Marinara sauce, tomato ketchup, or plain old
>>>> > tomato sauce is more her speed.
>>>>
>>>> You have me 'almost' right ... no chili <g>
>>>> --
>>> Traditional American style chili sauce doesn't contain a single (hot)
>>> chili! GIYF. It is tomatoes, onions, (bell) peppers, vinegar, sugar
>>> and various seasonings simmered together and reduced until thick.

>>
>>But, but, but chilis are peppers ... they may not seem hot to you!
>>--

> Sf is saying it contains sweet capsicum. In the US, we call all the
> capsicum "peppers." We recognize hot or sweet (meaning not hot).
> There are several styles of "not hot." You may be more familiar with
> the Italian peppers, often used for frying, grilling, cooking and
> eaten fresh. They actually do have a somewhat sweet taste.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsicum


OH! I know about sweet peppers and we like them, but I have always thought
of chili as hot! Maybe not to those who eat 'hot' peppers but for such as
us, they can still burn our mouth out

--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

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Default Meat Loaf


Ophelia wrote:

>Please would posters here be so kind as
> to share their favourite meat loaf
> recipes? * I have tried a couple and
> didn't like them much. Reading here I
> see that it is a favourite for many and I
> would love to find something really
> good


Most times when I make a meatloaf, I don't follow a recipe, but just add
whatever sounds good at the time, and usually comes out very tasty, but
awhile back I did have GREAT results with adding this, or that, and
hubby raved about it, so decided to write it down, and that's the way
I've been making it since then. I don't have exact measurements, but
it's hard to have a have a failure with a meatloaf.

This is "my creation":

2 lbs. lean ground beef
Not quite one "sleeve" Ritz crackers, crushed
1 egg
Diced onion - as much as you like
Fresh mushroom (about a handful, chopped up - can saute' till soft)
1 cup shredded Cheddar cheese
Salsa (I used some leftover in a jar, maybe about 1/2 cup)

Mix together well and put into a 9x5 inch loaf pan. Bake at 350º about
1 hour and 30 minutes. 15 minutes before it's done, put topping on and
continue to bake another 15 minutes.

For the topping:
In small bowl combine; 1/4 cup catsup, 2 tbsp. brown sugar, 1 tsp. dry
mustard and 1 tsp. lemon juice.

Judy

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