On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:02:37 PM UTC-6, A Moose in Love wrote:
>
<some snippage>

> For the sake of not just our own health and that of our children and
> grandchildren, but also for the health of the entire planet, we must
> reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat.
>
> Can we do it?
> }

When they grow lettuce and tomatoes that taste like meat, I will gladly desist
from eating it. Until then...fire up the BBQ...before the summer ends.

==

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:02:37 PM UTC-6, A Moose in Love wrote:
>>
> <some snippage>
>
>> For the sake of not just our own health and that of our children and
>> grandchildren, but also for the health of the entire planet, we must
>> reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat.
>>
>> Can we do it?
>> }
>
> When they grow lettuce and tomatoes that taste like meat, I will gladly
> desist
> from eating it. Until then...fire up the BBQ...before the summer ends.

Yep.

Cheri

On 6/25/2012 8:24 AM, Roy wrote:
> On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:02:37 PM UTC-6, A Moose in Love wrote:
>>
> <some snippage>
>
>> For the sake of not just our own health and that of our children and
>> grandchildren, but also for the health of the entire planet, we must
>> reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat.
>>
>> Can we do it?
>> }
>
> When they grow lettuce and tomatoes that taste like meat, I will gladly desist
> from eating it. Until then...fire up the BBQ...before the summer ends.
>
> ==
>

In the future, we or our children will be eating cultured animal tissue
instead of real meat. It's all gonna end soon so let's enjoy it while we
can. Until then, these are truly the salad days for meat eaters. :-)

dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/25/2012 8:24 AM, Roy wrote:
>> On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:02:37 PM UTC-6, A Moose in Love wrote:
>>>
>> <some snippage>
>>
>>> For the sake of not just our own health and that of our children and
>>> grandchildren, but also for the health of the entire planet, we must
>>> reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat.
>>>
>>> Can we do it?
>>> }
>>
>> When they grow lettuce and tomatoes that taste like meat, I will
>> gladly desist
>> from eating it. Until then...fire up the BBQ...before the summer ends.
>>
>> ==
>>
>
> In the future, we or our children will be eating cultured animal tissue
> instead of real meat. It's all gonna end soon so let's enjoy it while we
> can. Until then, these are truly the salad days for meat eaters. :-)

It's all gonna end soon? Wouldn't it be better to change our
lifestyles than it is to just adopt that attitude and keep on
doing the same old things?

--
Jean B.

On 6/26/2012 5:05 PM, Jean B. wrote:
>
> It's all gonna end soon? Wouldn't it be better to change our lifestyles
> than it is to just adopt that attitude and keep on doing the same old
> things?
>

Fake meat might be so cheap to produce that raising animals will be too
expensive. That's just my guess. I don't think that changing our
lifestyles is in the cards unless there's something that motivates us
to. That's no guess.

dsi1 wrote:

> > It's all gonna end soon? Wouldn't it be better to change our lifestyles
> > than it is to just adopt that attitude and keep on doing the same old
> > things?

> Fake meat might be so cheap to produce that raising animals will be too
> expensive. That's just my guess.

I doubt that will happen within 10 years. Maybe 20. And when it does
happen, U.S. consumers will resist it with all their might.

On Jun 25, 1:24*pm, Roy > wrote:
> On Monday, June 25, 2012 12:02:37 PM UTC-6, A Moose in Love wrote:
>
> <some snippage>
>
> > For the sake of not just our own health and that of our children and
> > grandchildren, but also for the health of the entire planet, we must
> > reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat.
>
> > Can we do it?
> > }
>
> When they grow lettuce and tomatoes that taste like meat, I will gladly desist
> from eating it. Until then...fire up the BBQ...before the summer ends.
>
> ==

Roy, find some heirloom tomatoes - there's a great old-timey
"beefsteak." LOL.

N.

On 6/26/2012 10:51 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>
>>> It's all gonna end soon? Wouldn't it be better to change our lifestyles
>>> than it is to just adopt that attitude and keep on doing the same old
>>> things?
>
>> Fake meat might be so cheap to produce that raising animals will be too
>> expensive. That's just my guess.
>
> I doubt that will happen within 10 years. Maybe 20. And when it does
> happen, U.S. consumers will resist it with all their might.
>

I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
alternative. It's the reason that people will buy a tablet rather than a
desktop computer. They'll see the $200 tablet as a better deal.

On 27/06/2012 1:05 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/26/2012 10:51 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>>> It's all gonna end soon? Wouldn't it be better to change our
>>>> lifestyles
>>>> than it is to just adopt that attitude and keep on doing the same old
>>>> things?
>>
>>> Fake meat might be so cheap to produce that raising animals will be too
>>> expensive. That's just my guess.
>>
>> I doubt that will happen within 10 years. Maybe 20. And when it does
>> happen, U.S. consumers will resist it with all their might.
>>
>
> I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
> alternative. It's the reason that people will buy a tablet rather than a
> desktop computer. They'll see the $200 tablet as a better deal.
>


I don't know why so many vegetarians go for these faux meats. There are
lots of good vegetarian dishes to provide protein that might otherwise
come from meat, but if you want something that looks and tastes like a
hamburger, have a hamburger. If you want something that loos and tests
like turkey, get a turkey. My vegetarian nephew keeps foisting faux
products on me.... try it... it tastes just like a hamburger. No. It
does not taste like hamburger, Hamburger tastes like hamburger.

On 6/27/2012 7:25 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I don't know why so many vegetarians go for these faux meats. There are
> lots of good vegetarian dishes to provide protein that might otherwise
> come from meat, but if you want something that looks and tastes like a
> hamburger, have a hamburger. If you want something that loos and tests
> like turkey, get a turkey. My vegetarian nephew keeps foisting faux
> products on me.... try it... it tastes just like a hamburger. No. It
> does not taste like hamburger, Hamburger tastes like hamburger.
>

What I mean by fake meat is cultured animal tissue not textured
vegetable protein. I agree with you that TVP is a funny thing. My friend
likes to order fake hamburgers when we go to eat next door. I'll have to
grill him about this the next time he eats one. My daughter doesn't eat
burgers - she thinks meat is gross. She'll eat chicken though.

I know a gal that's a vegetarian that would never go for a fake or real
hot dog. She makes the most the most amazing dishes using things that
I've never seen before and is healthy and energetic. In fact, she's a
drummer. I've never seen her down or moody. Beats the hell out of me how
she does it all on plant matter. A true freak of nature. If I was rich,
I'd have her cook for me and pay her lots of money.

dsi1 > wrote:

>What I mean by fake meat is cultured animal tissue not textured
>vegetable protein. I agree with you that TVP is a funny thing. My friend
>likes to order fake hamburgers when we go to eat next door. I'll have to
>grill him about this the next time he eats one.

Eating is largely about nutrition. If one is vegan and through whatever
combination of cost, convenience, and personal food isues, one faces a
struggle getting up to the required 50 grams/day of protein, TVP based
products are one of the possible solutions to this problem.

I can't understand all the harping about Boca Burgers and such like.
They share the disadvantages that are shared by all processed foods,
but they do contain nutrition, are pretty convenient, and many restaurants
have them (or similar) on the menu.

>I know a gal that's a vegetarian that would never go for a fake or real
>hot dog. She makes the most the most amazing dishes using things that
>I've never seen before and is healthy and energetic. In fact, she's a
>drummer.

(Does this mean she will steal your girlfriend?)



Steve

dsi1 wrote:

> >> Fake meat might be so cheap to produce that raising animals will be too
> >> expensive. That's just my guess.
> >
> > I doubt that will happen within 10 years. Maybe 20. And when it does
> > happen, U.S. consumers will resist it with all their might.

> I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
> alternative.

Not likely. Generic label foods lag in the marketplace even though
most people can't distinguish them from the name-brands.

> It's the reason that people will buy a tablet rather than a
> desktop computer. They'll see the $200 tablet as a better deal.

You don't really believe that's why people buy tablets, do you?
Because they cost less?

Dave Smith wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>
>> I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
>> alternative ...

Cultured meat is the stuff of science fiction. Because of the compexity
of the chemistry and the simplicity of growing grass and beans and
feeding those to cows I think cultured meat is going to remain the stuff
of science fiction for decades. Some day over the rainbow we'll no
longer need to ranch animals. I doubt I'll live to see the day. Maybe
my granddaughters will live to see the day.

> I don't know why so many vegetarians go for these faux meats. There are
> lots of good vegetarian dishes to provide protein that might otherwise
> come from meat, but if you want something that looks and tastes like a
> hamburger, have a hamburger.

It's always been bizzare to me. Go to a good vegetarian Indian
restaurant. Heavenly food and nothing fake or immitated in it.

Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:

>> I don't know why so many vegetarians go for these faux meats. There are
>> lots of good vegetarian dishes to provide protein that might otherwise
>> come from meat, but if you want something that looks and tastes like a
>> hamburger, have a hamburger.

>It's always been bizzare to me. Go to a good vegetarian Indian
>restaurant. Heavenly food and nothing fake or immitated in it.

Almost no Indian food is vegan. It is usually lacto-vegetarian. And,
if vegetarian Indian food does not include paneer, it is almost always
pretty low in protein.

Indian food (at least, in my experience) lacks the ingredients
found in other Asian fool traditions where attempts are made to
concentrate the protein component (such as tofu, yuba, or seitan).

Getting enough protein into the diet of south Asian people has been
a decades-long struggle by the public planners there and they still
have not succeeded, as the diet is still deficient for much of the
population.

Steve

On 6/27/2012 9:57 AM, George M. Middius wrote:
>
> You don't really believe that's why people buy tablets, do you?
> Because they cost less?
>
>

Oddly enough, I really do believe this that people will change their
ways if there's sufficient monetary savings. Given the choice between a
$200 tablet or a $200 desktop system, most folks would probably opt for
a desktop.

That probably won't happen. What will happen is that people will see a
tablet selling for $200 and a desktop going for $600 or more. A lot of
folks will go for the cheaper tablet. It don't take a genius to see
that. Of course there are other reasons why people want to buy tablets.
There's also reasons why people don't want to buy tablets but my guess
is that not having to shell out $400 is a pretty good incentive to ditch
the real keyboard.

Some people are saying that tablets will outsell notebook and desktops
in then next 12 to 24 months. Nobody could have predicted that when
Apple introduced the iPad a little over 2 years ago. I did, but then
again, I'm good at these things.

On 6/27/2012 8:50 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> What I mean by fake meat is cultured animal tissue not textured
>> vegetable protein. I agree with you that TVP is a funny thing. My friend
>> likes to order fake hamburgers when we go to eat next door. I'll have to
>> grill him about this the next time he eats one.
>
> Eating is largely about nutrition. If one is vegan and through whatever
> combination of cost, convenience, and personal food isues, one faces a
> struggle getting up to the required 50 grams/day of protein, TVP based
> products are one of the possible solutions to this problem.
>
> I can't understand all the harping about Boca Burgers and such like.
> They share the disadvantages that are shared by all processed foods,
> but they do contain nutrition, are pretty convenient, and many restaurants
> have them (or similar) on the menu.
>
>> I know a gal that's a vegetarian that would never go for a fake or real
>> hot dog. She makes the most the most amazing dishes using things that
>> I've never seen before and is healthy and energetic. In fact, she's a
>> drummer.
>
> (Does this mean she will steal your girlfriend?)

Sir, I am a married man!

>
>
>
> Steve

dsi1 wrote:
>
> I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
> alternative. It's the reason that people will buy a tablet rather than a
> desktop computer. They'll see the $200 tablet as a better deal.

I keep an open mind with all this. Just because things are genitically
modified, doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. Science has improved our
lives dramatically and extended life expectations over the past centuries.

G.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I don't know why so many vegetarians go for these faux meats. There are
> lots of good vegetarian dishes to provide protein that might otherwise
> come from meat, but if you want something that looks and tastes like a
> hamburger, have a hamburger. If you want something that loos and tests
> like turkey, get a turkey. My vegetarian nephew keeps foisting faux
> products on me.... try it... it tastes just like a hamburger. No. It
> does not taste like hamburger, Hamburger tastes like hamburger.

Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.

So he goes for the animal-meat substitutes and some of them are pretty
tasty.

G.

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Cultured meat is the stuff of science fiction.

Not true.



Petri dish to dinner plate, in-vitro meat coming soon

LONDON | Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:35am EST

LONDON (Reuters) - Scientists are cooking up new ways of satisfying
the world's ever-growing hunger for meat.

"Cultured meat" -- burgers or sausages grown in laboratory Petri
dishes rather than made from slaughtered livestock -- could be the
answer that feeds the world, saves the environment and spares the
lives of millions of animals, they say.

Granted, it may take a while to catch on. And it won't be cheap.

The first lab-grown hamburger will cost around 250,000 euros
($345,000) to produce, according to Mark Post, a vascular biologist at
the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, who hopes to unveil
such a delicacy soon.

Experts say the meat's potential for saving animals' lives, land,
water, energy and the planet itself could be enormous.

"The first one will be a proof of concept, just to show it's
possible," Post told Reuters in a telephone interview from his
Maastricht lab. "I believe I can do this in the coming year."

<http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/11/us-science-meat-f-idUSTRE7AA30020111111>

dsi1 wrote:

> > You don't really believe that's why people buy tablets, do you?
> > Because they cost less?

> Oddly enough, I really do believe this that people will change their
> ways if there's sufficient monetary savings. Given the choice between a
> $200 tablet or a $200 desktop system, most folks would probably opt for
> a desktop.

uh... What?

> That probably won't happen. What will happen is that people will see a
> tablet selling for $200 and a desktop going for $600 or more. A lot of
> folks will go for the cheaper tablet. It don't take a genius to see
> that. Of course there are other reasons why people want to buy tablets.

My point being that the "other reasons" carry a lot more weight. If
you're looking for a mechanical transport device, would you
automatically choose a bicycle rather than a car because of the cost
difference? How about a $400 set of cast aluminum cookware vs. a
single $20 stamped fry pan?

Gary wrote:

> Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
> he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
> that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.

Cute little pigs? Cows? Salmon? What the $*&% are you talking about?

On 6/27/2012 11:48 AM, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> I think people will buy faux meat because it will be a cheaper
>> alternative. It's the reason that people will buy a tablet rather than a
>> desktop computer. They'll see the $200 tablet as a better deal.
>
> I keep an open mind with all this. Just because things are genitically
> modified, doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. Science has improved our
> lives dramatically and extended life expectations over the past centuries.
>
> G.

Man has been doing genetic modifications for quite a while in dogs.
Mostly it makes a breed more specialized, less robust, and less suitable
for survival in the wild. My assumption is that it's the same way with
plants.

What I'm afraid of is that we're making super strains of staph germs
through our use of antibiotics that's really going to **** us over in a
short while. I outta know cause I got an infection in my buttocks region
that's taken over a month to get rid of. My wife, who is an RN says it's
an awful looking infection and she's seen it all. Folks who work in
hospitals are scared to death of the stuff. If you've got diabetes or a
compromised immune system you're at greater risk of getting these nasty
bugs. There's not much that can be done about this since we're swimming
in an ocean of these germs. No doubt that we'll be hearing about this
more and more in the future. God help us all.

On 6/27/2012 12:17 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>
>>> You don't really believe that's why people buy tablets, do you?
>>> Because they cost less?
>
>> Oddly enough, I really do believe this that people will change their
>> ways if there's sufficient monetary savings. Given the choice between a
>> $200 tablet or a $200 desktop system, most folks would probably opt for
>> a desktop.
>
> uh... What?
>
>> That probably won't happen. What will happen is that people will see a
>> tablet selling for $200 and a desktop going for $600 or more. A lot of
>> folks will go for the cheaper tablet. It don't take a genius to see
>> that. Of course there are other reasons why people want to buy tablets.
>
> My point being that the "other reasons" carry a lot more weight. If
> you're looking for a mechanical transport device, would you
> automatically choose a bicycle rather than a car because of the cost
> difference? How about a $400 set of cast aluminum cookware vs. a
> single $20 stamped fry pan?
>
>

As it goes, a desktop has some major disadvantages. They are big,
expensive, use a lot of electricity not that intuitive to use or setup,
and not mobile. OTOH, they do have a really big niffy keyboard!

I'm not sure how one could compare a bicycle to a car. OTOH, a lot more
people buy cheap cars than expensive ones. Why would you compare a set
of cast aluminum cookware to a single pan? That makes no sense. I'll buy
a good $30 dollar fry pan over a crappy $15 pan any day - no cast
aluminum for me please! I really like my $24 pan. It's my workhorse pan
that I use every day.

I really doubt that a $100 fancy schmancy cast pan is going to perform
better than any of the inexpensive pans that I have anyway. Of course,
you can use 'em to impress your friends. That's worth something I
suppose. :-)

On 27/06/2012 6:18 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> Gary wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
>> he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
>> that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.
>
> Cute little pigs? Cows? Salmon? What the $*&% are you talking about?
>
>


Shrimp and lobsters aren't cute. Nor are any of the molluscs. Young
chickens are ugly and chickens are pretty vile creatures, mean and stupid.

On 27/06/2012 8:42 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 27/06/2012 6:18 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>>> Gary wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
>>>> he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
>>>> that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.
>>>
>>> Cute little pigs? Cows? Salmon? What the $*&% are you talking about?
>>
>> Shrimp and lobsters aren't cute. Nor are any of the molluscs. Young
>> chickens are ugly and chickens are pretty vile creatures, mean and stupid.
>
> That would be a good topic for a children's book.
> Those ugly, mean animals and their cruel and vicious
> thoughts. We're doing God's work by killing and
> eating them! We're making the world beautiful!
>


Just send them to Sunday School and read them Genesis so they can see
that God gave man dominion over the animals.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 27/06/2012 6:18 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> > Gary wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
> >> he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
> >> that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.
> >
> > Cute little pigs? Cows? Salmon? What the $*&% are you talking about?
>
> Shrimp and lobsters aren't cute. Nor are any of the molluscs. Young
> chickens are ugly and chickens are pretty vile creatures, mean and stupid.

That would be a good topic for a children's book.
Those ugly, mean animals and their cruel and vicious
thoughts. We're doing God's work by killing and
eating them! We're making the world beautiful!

dsi1 wrote:

> >> That probably won't happen. What will happen is that people will see a
> >> tablet selling for $200 and a desktop going for $600 or more. A lot of
> >> folks will go for the cheaper tablet. It don't take a genius to see
> >> that. Of course there are other reasons why people want to buy tablets.
> >
> > My point being that the "other reasons" carry a lot more weight. If
> > you're looking for a mechanical transport device, would you
> > automatically choose a bicycle rather than a car because of the cost
> > difference? How about a $400 set of cast aluminum cookware vs. a
> > single $20 stamped fry pan?

> As it goes, a desktop has some major disadvantages. They are big,
> expensive, use a lot of electricity not that intuitive to use or setup,
> and not mobile. OTOH, they do have a really big niffy keyboard!

You're not up on current configurations. Today's desktops are about
twice the weight of a notebook and use much less power than the old
style.

> I'm not sure how one could compare a bicycle to a car. OTOH, a lot more
> people buy cheap cars than expensive ones. Why would you compare a set
> of cast aluminum cookware to a single pan? That makes no sense. I'll buy
> a good $30 dollar fry pan over a crappy $15 pan any day - no cast
> aluminum for me please! I really like my $24 pan. It's my workhorse pan
> that I use every day.
>
> I really doubt that a $100 fancy schmancy cast pan is going to perform
> better than any of the inexpensive pans that I have anyway. Of course,
> you can use 'em to impress your friends. That's worth something I
> suppose. :-)

I give up. BTW, do you run any socks here? Maybe one who professes to
be a taxi driver?

Sqwertz > wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:50:56 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> Eating is largely about nutrition. If one is vegan and through whatever
>> combination of cost, convenience, and personal food isues, one faces a
>> struggle getting up to the required 50 grams/day of protein, TVP based
>> products are one of the possible solutions to this problem.

>And take a look at all the top allergens, all of which are on the
>rise. Pretty soon meat will be the only thing that is not allergenic.
>If you're plagued with food allergies (and "intolerances"), you can
>pretty much kiss being a healthy vegetarian goodbye.

I think a lot of this is fakery by the meat-dominated USDA who
like to play up soy, wheat, nut, and seafood allergies.

The fact is, a human can develop an allergy to any protein, whether
vegetable or animal. It is an evolutionary trade-off that enabled
us to defend against parasites. The hand of Darwin and all that.


Steve

On 6/27/2012 3:40 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>
>>>> That probably won't happen. What will happen is that people will see a
>>>> tablet selling for $200 and a desktop going for $600 or more. A lot of
>>>> folks will go for the cheaper tablet. It don't take a genius to see
>>>> that. Of course there are other reasons why people want to buy tablets.
>>>
>>> My point being that the "other reasons" carry a lot more weight. If
>>> you're looking for a mechanical transport device, would you
>>> automatically choose a bicycle rather than a car because of the cost
>>> difference? How about a $400 set of cast aluminum cookware vs. a
>>> single $20 stamped fry pan?
>
>> As it goes, a desktop has some major disadvantages. They are big,
>> expensive, use a lot of electricity not that intuitive to use or setup,
>> and not mobile. OTOH, they do have a really big niffy keyboard!
>
> You're not up on current configurations. Today's desktops are about
> twice the weight of a notebook and use much less power than the old
> style.

I've seen some desktop computers around. They look a little smaller but
I'll have to try lifting one to see how heavy they are. The typical fast
CPU these days will use about 125 Watts. You probably want to be using
at least a 650W power supply. These computers tend to be heavy because
they need a pretty hefty heatsink to keep the processor cool. My guess
is that a fast video card is going to be even more power hungry than the
CPU and you might want to use an 850W or more power supply. Anyway, a
fast computer these days is going to weigh a ton.

I have built a computer with an Atom processor that uses a ridiculously
low 8.5W or so of power. The heatsink for the Atom looked like a toy.
The whole thing fit in a relatively small case. It used a tiny 230W
micro-ATX power supply but that failed after a few boots. Boy was that
system was slow! Thus ended my dreams of a lightweight, low power,
computer system. That's the breaks.

>
>> I'm not sure how one could compare a bicycle to a car. OTOH, a lot more
>> people buy cheap cars than expensive ones. Why would you compare a set
>> of cast aluminum cookware to a single pan? That makes no sense. I'll buy
>> a good $30 dollar fry pan over a crappy $15 pan any day - no cast
>> aluminum for me please! I really like my $24 pan. It's my workhorse pan
>> that I use every day.
>>
>> I really doubt that a $100 fancy schmancy cast pan is going to perform
>> better than any of the inexpensive pans that I have anyway. Of course,
>> you can use 'em to impress your friends. That's worth something I
>> suppose. :-)
>
> I give up. BTW, do you run any socks here? Maybe one who professes to
> be a taxi driver?
>

Don't give up! Let's just say we have different ideas about things. As
it goes people are buying those things for whatever reasons. Perhaps
it's not important why.

I do not use any other names, aliases, nyms, NDPs, etc. If we have the
same taxi driver in mind, I am not him. I'm just a regular conservative
kind of guy. Tommy Joe, OTOH, is a man very much on the edge - at least
that's the way he presents himself.

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> And take a look at all the top allergens, all of which are on the
> rise. Pretty soon meat will be the only thing that is not allergenic.
> If you're plagued with food allergies (and "intolerances"), you can
> pretty much kiss being a healthy vegetarian goodbye.
>
> Meat. The cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems.

I thought I'd never encounter anyone who had a problem with meat other
than vegetarians who acclimiate their digistive systems to not eating
meat so it gives them indigestion for a week or two if they switch back.

Then I finally encountered someone who is pork intolerant. Her symptoms
broadly resemble the ones I get from wheat. Indigestion, problems
sleeping, triggering cravings, various other details. It makes me
wonder if whatever the reason she's pork intolerant might happen
commonly in cultures that ban eating pork meat.

Pot luck dinner at her place this weekend. Last time we did a corned
beef and beans based "call it chilli unless you've lived in Texas".
Diced corned beef works pretty well in chilli. Thinking of bringing it
again this weekend. With commercial wheat free sesame rice crackers so
I can have a starchy addition to my chilli.

Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>I thought I'd never encounter anyone who had a problem with meat other
>than vegetarians who acclimiate their digistive systems to not eating
>meat so it gives them indigestion for a week or two if they switch back.

>Then I finally encountered someone who is pork intolerant. Her symptoms
>broadly resemble the ones I get from wheat. Indigestion, problems
>sleeping, triggering cravings, various other details. It makes me
>wonder if whatever the reason she's pork intolerant might happen
>commonly in cultures that ban eating pork meat.

Yes, in another thread I mentioned that we were "suddenly" required
to cook some chicken; this was because one dinner guest was beef and
pork intolerant, and did not like lamb.

In their case, it was just an ingredient intolearnce, but I do
know other persons who consider mammals too intelligent and sentient to
slaughter and eat, whereas birds or fishes are okay.


Steve

George M. Middius wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> Cultured meat is the stuff of science fiction.
>
> Not true.
>
> Petri dish to dinner plate, in-vitro meat coming soon
>
> LONDON | Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:35am EST
>
> LONDON (Reuters) - Scientists are cooking up new ways of satisfying
> the world's ever-growing hunger for meat.
>
> "Cultured meat" -- burgers or sausages grown in laboratory Petri
> dishes rather than made from slaughtered livestock -- could be the
> answer that feeds the world, saves the environment and spares the
> lives of millions of animals, they say.
>
> Granted, it may take a while to catch on. And it won't be cheap.
>
> The first lab-grown hamburger will cost around 250,000 euros
> ($345,000) to produce, according to Mark Post, a vascular biologist at
> the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, who hopes to unveil
> such a delicacy soon.

I remember that article. I remember the price. What if Moore's Law
from electronics applies to cultured meat? Price goes down in half
every 3 years. Price of ranched meat and cultured meat both track
inflation other than that curve. In 30 years the price is $354 per
pound. About 50 years from now the price beats ranched meat. About 60
years from now the difference is so large only hobbiests grow animals
for meat and the price difference breaks down the cultural objections.

I predict I will not live to see the day. I predict that both of my
granddaughters will ive to see the day.

> Experts say the meat's potential for saving animals' lives, land,
> water, energy and the planet itself could be enormous.

Depending on the infrastructure needed to produce the animo acids, fatty
acids and so on needed by the cultures.

> "The first one will be a proof of concept, just to show it's
> possible," Post told Reuters in a telephone interview from his
> Maastricht lab. "I believe I can do this in the coming year."

Possible does not equal economical. Yet. Some day. Some day not soon
on a human scale. Some day soon on a historical scale.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> As it goes, a desktop has some major disadvantages. They are big,
> expensive, use a lot of electricity not that intuitive to use or setup,
> and not mobile. OTOH, they do have a really big niffy keyboard!

I have a dock for my latop. Two. One at the office one at home. We
recently turned of fthe desktop at home.

> I'm not sure how one could compare a bicycle to a car.

Total number of bicycles sold worldwide the last time I checked was
still higher than the total number of cars. Might change any year now.

> OTOH, a lot more
> people buy cheap cars than expensive ones. Why would you compare a set
> of cast aluminum cookware to a single pan? That makes no sense. I'll buy
> a good $30 dollar fry pan over a crappy $15 pan any day - no cast
> aluminum for me please! I really like my $24 pan. It's my workhorse pan
> that I use every day.
>
> I really doubt that a $100 fancy schmancy cast pan is going to perform
> better than any of the inexpensive pans that I have anyway. Of course,
> you can use 'em to impress your friends. That's worth something I
> suppose. :-)

For a long time I've recommended that kids starting a household start
with a set of cookware. Each year see which one shows the most wear and
think about if you want something a bit different than that. Then buy
the best single pan you can for that use. Never pay attention to sets
again just use one as a starting point. Do frying, get cast iron. Do
sauces get an All Clad class sauce pan. Do sauteeing get a high
conductance stanless clad aluminim pan. Do roasting get a cheap
graniteware roasting pan and also a really nice anodized insert rack.
Decide asparagus is your favorite veggie get a tall thin asparagus
steamer. One year one item based on what you actually cook. No hurry.
Just get one item that will last your life and your kid's lives.

Knives same deal. We now have some Henckles, Wustoff, Chicago Cutlery,
Cutco, Boker. Unless I chip and snap one of the ceramic blades we might
never need another knife in our lives. Which kid should get the entire
unmatched collection ...

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave, I said this last week or so. I have a friend that loves meat but
> > he hates the killing of cute little animals. So he's vegetarian just for
> > that reason...to not promote the killing of animals.
>
> Cute little pigs? Cows? Salmon? What the $*&% are you talking about?

I do respect all life. So easy for us to snuff out a life as, in the
civilized world, we are the top of the food chain.

Even killing an annoying insect in the house (and I do it). But did you ever
think that you are ending a life? One of God's creatures?

Case in point: Yesterday we went upstairs in a house to paint something and
there was a wasp sitting on a doorframe. My coworker was ready to kill it
immediately as it posed a threat to him. I stopped him.

I explained that bees and wasps are basically friendly and they only sting
the crap out of you if they feel threatened.

As he stepped way back, I put my finger right next to the wasp. My friend
thought I was crazy. Well the wasp checked out my finger (probing with his
antennae), and he moved away. I put my finger back in front of him and he
checked it out again. Eventually, he realized my finger wasn't threat and
he climbed onto my finger. Then I slowly took him over to an open window
and let him fly away to live another day.

Many people might think that's stupid but not me. I was much happier giving
him an escape to live on, rather than smashing him and snuffing out a living
thing.

Pigs and cows, etc. all have distinct personalities too. If you raised them
yourself, you might not be so quick to kill them.

And remember, this is my veggie friend I'm talking about. I personally love
meat and will continue to eat it. Luckily for us, others kill the animals
and we just see nice tasty meat in the grocery stores. We are sheltered from
the killing part.

Gary

Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> Knives same deal. We now have some Henckles, Wustoff, Chicago Cutlery,
> Cutco, Boker.

I have a full set of Chicago Cutlery knives. I've always wondered how they
rate compared to others.

G.

On 6/28/2012 7:45 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> For a long time I've recommended that kids starting a household start
> with a set of cookware. Each year see which one shows the most wear and
> think about if you want something a bit different than that. Then buy
> the best single pan you can for that use. Never pay attention to sets
> again just use one as a starting point. Do frying, get cast iron. Do
> sauces get an All Clad class sauce pan. Do sauteeing get a high
> conductance stanless clad aluminim pan. Do roasting get a cheap
> graniteware roasting pan and also a really nice anodized insert rack.
> Decide asparagus is your favorite veggie get a tall thin asparagus
> steamer. One year one item based on what you actually cook. No hurry.
> Just get one item that will last your life and your kid's lives.
>
> Knives same deal. We now have some Henckles, Wustoff, Chicago Cutlery,
> Cutco, Boker. Unless I chip and snap one of the ceramic blades we might
> never need another knife in our lives. Which kid should get the entire
> unmatched collection ...
>


I started out with a big wok and a cast iron pan and it was fine. We
must have had a sauce pan or rice pot but I don't remember that at all.
It's good to have a bunch of different pans but it's also important to
learn to adapt and use what you have. These days I have a few more pans
but hardly use most of them. My most specialized pan is a large chicken
fryer which is the only SS pan I like to use - but only for cooking
fried chicken. I'd like to get a pressure cooker but it's hard to find a
induction clad construction pan at a reasonable price.

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Yes, in another thread I mentioned that we were "suddenly" required
> to cook some chicken; this was because one dinner guest was beef and
> pork intolerant, and did not like lamb.

Beef too? That would be rare. In the sense of unusual.

> In their case, it was just an ingredient intolearnce, but I do
> know other persons who consider mammals too intelligent and sentient to
> slaughter and eat, whereas birds or fishes are okay.

I guess they never actually met a cow or crow. Cows are dumb as a sack
of rocks. They are bred that way. I have seen a video of a crow or
raven making a tool. It bent a wire into a hook to pull up some food.
Not really a fair comparison as it's a domesticated animal versus a wild
one. I have no idea if I'd hesitate to eat whale meat.

To me fish are okay to eat but I think they have a higher and more noble
purpose. To die, settle to the bottom and feed the crustaceans there.
Love those crabs and lobsters and shrimp and whatever.

Gary wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> Knives same deal. We now have some Henckles, Wustoff, Chicago Cutlery,
>> Cutco, Boker.
>
> I have a full set of Chicago Cutlery knives. I've always wondered how they
> rate compared to others.

Maybe good enough to last your lifetime, maybe not. Not heirlooms.

Also I have a wider variety of blades in my block than is made by
Chicago Cutlery. I would not be able to assemble such a collection just
shopping from Chicago Cutlery.

Our most recent knife aquisitions were Cutco. I've wanted Cutco steak
knives forever. Finally got a bunch. They rule the dinner table now.

I've wanted a couple different sizes of Cutco serrated knives to replace
all of our serrated blades (insert story here about how Cutco claims
they are not serrated). We ended up getting (maybe trading for) an
entire set in order to get two sizes of their serrated blades. So we
now have extra Cutco blades. The chefs knife doesn't suck it's just
not as nearly nice as the Henckels ones we already had. The paring knife
is better than the cheapo ones we'd been uising. The extras may end up
in the shelves somewhere but those two I wanted, they now see regular
use. They did replace all of our previous serrated blades.

Unless we start having a lot of oysters and need a custom oyster blade
we might never need a new blade in our lives now. Some different pans,
maybe some day.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:28:43 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Then I finally encountered someone who is pork intolerant. Her symptoms
> broadly resemble the ones I get from wheat. Indigestion, problems
> sleeping, triggering cravings, various other details. It makes me
> wonder if whatever the reason she's pork intolerant might happen
> commonly in cultures that ban eating pork meat.

My son got migraines as a kid. It turned out that he was allergic to
lamb, which we were eating at least once a week because I had a
freezer full of the best cuts from my mother's home grown lambs. I
stopped serving lamb once a week and the migraines stopped. I could
serve it occasionally with no repercussions, but once a week was just
too much for his system to tolerate.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 28/06/2012 1:34 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd never encounter anyone who had a problem with meat other
>> than vegetarians who acclimiate their digistive systems to not eating
>> meat so it gives them indigestion for a week or two if they switch back.
>
>> Then I finally encountered someone who is pork intolerant. Her symptoms
>> broadly resemble the ones I get from wheat. Indigestion, problems
>> sleeping, triggering cravings, various other details. It makes me
>> wonder if whatever the reason she's pork intolerant might happen
>> commonly in cultures that ban eating pork meat.
>
> Yes, in another thread I mentioned that we were "suddenly" required
> to cook some chicken; this was because one dinner guest was beef and
> pork intolerant, and did not like lamb.


Intolerant to beef and pork and doesn't like..... sounds like someone
who should expect to bring their own food.