I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.

I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?

Cheryl wrote:
>
> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>
> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?

I've pretty much always cooked with a minimum of salt, and never used
any sort of salt substitute. I simply use a wide variety of herbs and
spices as appropriate to the dish and never have a problem. I don't use
zero salt, just a very minimal amount, a true "pinch" at most, and if I
am using something like hot sauce or Worcestershire sauce that contains
salt I don't add any separately.

Cheryl wrote:
>
> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>
> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?

Morton makes an all potassium Salt Substitute and a 50-50
sodium-potassim Lite Salt.

When I tried Salt Substitute side by side I did find it slightly bitter.
When I tried the Lite Salt side by side I could not tell it from table
salt. Ever since Salt Substitute has been our standard in the shaker.
I recipes we tend to use various brands of sea salt to keep the
potassium levels form getting too high.

I've tried several brands of 50-50 soduim-potassium light salts. I have
not been able to tell any of them from Morton's Lite Salt in the light
blue paper can.

My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea. That's very
roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
positive ions. Table salt is close to 100% sodium. So if we use either
Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
our table ever since. I do not bother with potassium supplements.

We do not take any diuretic blod pressure medication. If either of us
did we'd rethink the principle.

On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 17:09:35 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Morton makes an all potassium Salt Substitute and a 50-50
> sodium-potassim Lite Salt.
>
> When I tried Salt Substitute side by side I did find it slightly bitter.
> When I tried the Lite Salt side by side I could not tell it from table
> salt. Ever since Salt Substitute has been our standard in the shaker.
> I recipes we tend to use various brands of sea salt to keep the
> potassium levels form getting too high.

Here's what I don't understand. Why is salt made from recently
evaporated sea water supposedly better than sea water that was
evaporated eons ago and mined recently?
>
> I've tried several brands of 50-50 soduim-potassium light salts. I have
> not been able to tell any of them from Morton's Lite Salt in the light
> blue paper can.
>
> My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
> we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea. That's very
> roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
> positive ions. Table salt is close to 100% sodium. So if we use either
> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
> Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
> our table ever since. I do not bother with potassium supplements.
>
> We do not take any diuretic blod pressure medication. If either of us
> did we'd rethink the principle.

Hm. I like the idea of lite salt from the added potassium angle.
Maybe I'll get some. It works in all things, including baked goods?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message
...
> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
>> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>>
>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>
> Morton makes an all potassium Salt Substitute and a 50-50
> sodium-potassim Lite Salt.
>
> When I tried Salt Substitute side by side I did find it slightly bitter.
> When I tried the Lite Salt side by side I could not tell it from table
> salt. Ever since Salt Substitute has been our standard in the shaker.
> I recipes we tend to use various brands of sea salt to keep the
> potassium levels form getting too high.
>
> I've tried several brands of 50-50 soduim-potassium light salts. I have
> not been able to tell any of them from Morton's Lite Salt in the light
> blue paper can.
>
> My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
> we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea. That's very
> roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
> positive ions. Table salt is close to 100% sodium. So if we use either
> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
> Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
> our table ever since. I do not bother with potassium supplements.
>
> We do not take any diuretic blod pressure medication. If either of us
> did we'd rethink the principle.
A simple answer. I've discovered that a hefty splat of Penzey's 'white'
pepper will quite often take the place of salt nicely. I bought the white
pepper thinking it would be nice on white potato dishes. Polly

On 3/2/2012 10:09 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:

> My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
> we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea.


All of what we call "salt" comes from the same source. Commercially
produced crystal table salt has been refined to a greater degree than
coarser salts, but it is essentially the same thing as sea salt, rock
salt, etc.



> That's very
> roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
> positive ions.


Only because it's less refined, and frankly more contaminated with
"non-salt" matter.



> Table salt is close to 100% sodium.

Nonsense. It couldn't be. That would be unstable to the point of being
explosive. You'd better look that up again, and don't forget the
chloride factor this time.





> So if we use either
> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.

What on earth do you mean by that?




> Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
> our table ever since. I do not bother with potassium supplements.
>
> We do not take any diuretic blod pressure medication. If either of us
> did we'd rethink the principle.

Diuretics are not the only medications that manipulate potassium level.
What meds for hypertension do you take?

On 3/1/2012 7:05 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>
> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>

The simplest solution is to use a salt with MSG. You could probably cut
down your table salt use by at least 20% and a lot more if using a salt
substitute.

Cheryl wrote:
>
> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?

I used Morton's for several years before realizing
it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
I stopped using it over 10 years ago, and the problem
went away and stayed away. I switched to Morton's
Lite Salt (half potassium and half sodium salt) for
a short time, and it did the same thing as the pure
stuff.

It does taste different and not as nice as sodium salt.
I tolerated the taste, but never really got used to it.
I mostly used it in small amounts directly on food
right before eating it.

Because of the heartbeat problem, I'd never consider
using it again. I watch my salt intake, and if I ever
need to reduce it, I'll just use less.

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>
>I used Morton's for several years before realizing
>it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.

In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.

My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
(HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
done.

John Kuthe...

On Mar 2, 9:46*am, Pennyaline >
wrote:
> On 3/2/2012 10:09 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
> > we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea.
>
> All of what we call "salt" comes from the same source. Commercially
> produced crystal table salt has been refined to a greater degree than
> coarser salts, but it is essentially the same thing as sea salt, rock
> salt, etc.
>
> > That's very
> > roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
> > positive ions.
>
> Only because it's less refined, and frankly more contaminated with
> "non-salt" matter.
>
> > Table salt is close to 100% sodium.
>
> Nonsense. It couldn't be. That would be unstable to the point of being
> explosive. You'd better look that up again, and don't forget the
> chloride factor this time.

Doug made it clear he's talking only of the positive ions.

> > So if we use either
> > Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
> > the sodium we get while eating out. *The kidneys work to balance out our
> > electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
>
> What on earth do you mean by that?

I thought he meant that he would pee away sodium and potassium
equally, so he would eat more potassium at home because he had so much
sodium while out. But then he says he's not taking diuretics.

>
> > Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
> > our table ever since. *I do not bother with potassium supplements.
>
> > We do not take any diuretic blod pressure medication. *If either of us
> > did we'd rethink the principle.
>
> Diuretics are not the only medications that manipulate potassium level.
> What meds for hypertension do you take?

sf wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> When I tried the Lite Salt side by side I could not tell it from table
>> salt. Ever since Salt Substitute has been our standard in the shaker.
>> I recipes we tend to use various brands of sea salt to keep the
>> potassium levels form getting too high.
>
> Here's what I don't understand. Why is salt made from recently
> evaporated sea water supposedly better than sea water that was
> evaporated eons ago and mined recently?

The name sea salt has much better buzz.

It's possible but unlikely to have a different composition. When a
natural sea dries up like is happening now at the Dead Sea, Great Salt
Lake and Salton Sea the minerals come out of solution according to their
solubilities. The bottom 10% or so is a mix of all sorts of low
solubility minerals with a gradually increasing amount of sodium. THe
top 10% or so is a mix of all sorts of high solubility minerals that go
from mostly sodium to mostly potassium to mixed traces. About the
middle 80% is fairly pure sodium chloride. Mines do further
purification.

Generally dried sea salt gets that sort of 80% easy refinement. It
makes it nearly as pure as mined salt just with a cooler label.

It's possible but unlikely to take sea water, dry it completely, and
include all of the resulting minerals in the product. That would be
very roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium, with most or the rest calcium but
also a lot of other traces. I don't think any commercially available
sea salt does it this way, though.

> Hm. I like the idea of lite salt from the added potassium angle.

Very easy to add too much. Read up on amounts first. Human kidneys try
to control our electrolyte balance by actively ejecting sodium. All
other minerals use osmotic pressure. It's easy to end up with too much
potassium if you're not careful. I try to use up to a quarter teaspoon
of Lite Salt per day when it's a low carbing day. I don't often use
that much out of the shaker on the table.

> Maybe I'll get some. It works in all things, including baked goods?

I can't tell the difference in anything, including baked goods.

On Mar 2, 12:09*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
> >Cheryl wrote:
>
> >> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> >> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> >> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? *I read that
> >> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> >> on. *If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> >> to bring out flavors? *I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> >> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>
> >I used Morton's for several years before realizing
> >it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
>
> In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
> soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.
>
> My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
> (HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
> him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
> was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
> done.
>

Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.

Pennyaline wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
>> we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea.
>
> All of what we call "salt" comes from the same source.

Sure. Meteorites ultimately. And the sea on a time scale of only a few
billion years. So what?

>> Table salt is close to 100% sodium.
>
> Nonsense. It couldn't be. That would be unstable to the point of being
> explosive. You'd better look that up again, and don't forget the
> chloride factor this time.

So you trimmed out the positive ion part and then started spewing
nonsense. Got it. There can be an entire parallel discussion of the
negative ions from the dissolved minerals if you like. Sulfates and
nitrates are used in metabolism.

>> So if we use either
>> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
>> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
>> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
>
> What on earth do you mean by that?

The target is blood like ancient sea water. Kidney are evolved to try
to achieve that. In particular kidneys use a bizzare method. They
osmotically transfer the dissolved contents out of the blood. Then they
use active transport to pull back the desired contents. Sugar and amino
acids are pulled back as much as possible. Among the minerals sodium is
pulled back in controlled amounts to acheive the correct salinity. All
other dissolved ions, positive and negative, come back through osmosis.
When I learned that in high school biology I thought it a crazy design,
but it is evolved not designed. If the purpose of the kidneys is to
eject urea it's a poor design. But that's not the purpose of kidneys.
As evolved its complex but effective because it ejects unknown
pollutants by gradually leaching them out.

On 3/2/2012 3:53 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Pennyaline wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:

>>> Table salt is close to 100% sodium.
>>
>> Nonsense. It couldn't be. That would be unstable to the point of being
>> explosive. You'd better look that up again, and don't forget the
>> chloride factor this time.
>
> So you trimmed out the positive ion part and then started spewing
> nonsense.

What part the specific separation of positive and negative ions did I
trim out? Your original didn't have anything about the composition of
table salt except your erroneous statement that it is close to 100% sodium.



> Got it. There can be an entire parallel discussion of the
> negative ions from the dissolved minerals if you like. Sulfates and
> nitrates are used in metabolism.

So what? That wasn't introduced in your original post, so it has no
relevance to it now. Afterthought is afterthought.



>>> So if we use either
>>> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
>>> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
>>> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
>>
>> What on earth do you mean by that?
>
> The target is blood like ancient sea water. Kidney are evolved to try
> to achieve that. In particular kidneys use a bizzare method. They
> osmotically transfer the dissolved contents out of the blood. Then they
> use active transport to pull back the desired contents. Sugar and amino
> acids are pulled back as much as possible. Among the minerals sodium is
> pulled back in controlled amounts to acheive the correct salinity. All
> other dissolved ions, positive and negative, come back through osmosis.
> When I learned that in high school biology I thought it a crazy design,
> but it is evolved not designed. If the purpose of the kidneys is to
> eject urea it's a poor design. But that's not the purpose of kidneys.
> As evolved its complex but effective because it ejects unknown
> pollutants by gradually leaching them out.

I know what the kidneys do, and their function is electrolyte and fluid
balance and excretion of proteins. I understand equilibrium and
homeostasis, and osmosis and osmolarity and tonicity. I didn't stop
learning about it in high school. What I don't understand is what you
meant by the sodium you get while eating out. You never broached that
part of it.


Now, you conveniently edited out my question about your hypertension
medications. So tell me, if not diuretics particularly, what are you taking?

Pennyaline wrote:
>
> What I don't understand is what you
> meant by the sodium you get while eating out. You never broached that
> part of it.

That part should be pretty clear, virtually all restaurant food has
probably 5X or more salt than you would cook with at home.

On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 22:34:50 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> >
> > Here's what I don't understand. Why is salt made from recently
> > evaporated sea water supposedly better than sea water that was
> > evaporated eons ago and mined recently?
>
> The name sea salt has much better buzz.
>
And they can charge more!
<snip>
>
> Generally dried sea salt gets that sort of 80% easy refinement. It
> makes it nearly as pure as mined salt just with a cooler label.
>
Okay! Cache equals money.
> <snip>
>
> > Hm. I like the idea of lite salt from the added potassium angle.
>
> Very easy to add too much. Read up on amounts first. Human kidneys try
> to control our electrolyte balance by actively ejecting sodium. All
> other minerals use osmotic pressure. It's easy to end up with too much
> potassium if you're not careful. I try to use up to a quarter teaspoon
> of Lite Salt per day when it's a low carbing day. I don't often use
> that much out of the shaker on the table.

Okay, sounds like it would be good for table salt since we don't use
much of that (although I do like looking at my pretty pink salt in the
shaker).
>
> > Maybe I'll get some. It works in all things, including baked goods?
>
> I can't tell the difference in anything, including baked goods.

Thanks. I'm always worried that I'm not getting enough potassium.
Since I don't bake a lot it might be a good salt substitute for
baking, but I'll keep kosher salt in the cellar that I use for
seasoning when I'm cooking on the stovetop.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> On Mar 2, 12:09 pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark Thorson >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>>>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>>>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>>>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>>>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>>>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>>>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>>>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>>
>>> I used Morton's for several years before realizing
>>> it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
>>
>> In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
>> soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.
>>
>> My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
>> (HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
>> him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
>> was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
>> done.
>>
>
> Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
> I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.

I'm on that drug. I was buying no salt ketchup, and later found out it had
high potassium.

Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.

Greg

On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:35:10 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
> wrote:
....
>Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
>I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.

Are you talking about potassium sparing diuretics?

http://www.drugs.com/cons/diuretics-...m-sparing.html

Yes, diuretics can be used to help lower blood pressure, but that;'s
not a diuretic's only use. They are also used for example to reduce
edema or swelling.

Other medications are normally used to treat HTN or hypertension AKA
high blood pressure. ACE inhibitors and Beta blockers are the most
commonly used, and don't affect K+ levels in the blood too
substantially. Not like a non-potassium sparing diuretic (e.g. Lasix)
might.

John Kuthe...

On 3/2/2012 7:02 PM, gregz wrote:
> > wrote:
>> On Mar 2, 12:09 pm, John > wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>>>>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>>>>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>>>>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>>>>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>>>>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>>>>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>>>
>>>> I used Morton's for several years before realizing
>>>> it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
>>>
>>> In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
>>> soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.
>>>
>>> My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
>>> (HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
>>> him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
>>> was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
>>> done.
>>>
>>
>> Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
>> I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.
>
> I'm on that drug. I was buying no salt ketchup, and later found out it had
> high potassium.

What "drug" is that? I didn't see anything named.



> Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
> Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.

They are hardly ignorant of it. Raised calcium and magnesium levels can
also produce irregular heartbeat, something you seem to be ignorant of.

On 3/2/2012 5:40 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Pennyaline wrote:
>>
>> What I don't understand is what you
>> meant by the sodium you get while eating out. You never broached that
>> part of it.
>
> That part should be pretty clear, virtually all restaurant food has
> probably 5X or more salt than you would cook with at home.

"Virtually all"? "Probably 5X more salt than you would cook with at
home"? I guess a lot depends on who's doing the cooking at home.
Citations, please.

<they should be as entertaining as the rest of your facts>


And back to the subject of your meds? I've asked nicely, twice already.
What meds are you taking, please?

Pennyaline wrote:

>>> What I don't understand is what you
>>> meant by the sodium you get while eating out. You never broached that
>>> part of it.
>>
>> That part should be pretty clear, virtually all restaurant food has
>> probably 5X or more salt than you would cook with at home.
>
>"Virtually all"? "Probably 5X more salt than you would cook with at
>home"? I guess a lot depends on who's doing the cooking at home.
>Citations, please.

I've seen a few published mentions of truly high levels of fat and
salt in restaurant food, but I think "five times as much" is a major
exaggeration. What restaurant chefs often say is they use whatever
they want to achieve the taste they want, nutritional constraints be
damned.

On 3/1/2012 11:05 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>
> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>
Cheryl,

if you want to have a bit of flavor in pasta, squeeze a little lemon
juice into the boiling water and forgo the sodium whatever.

As for salt subs, we found that it was easier to just not use it. If we
do use any salt, it's Salt Sense which is real salt, but milled
differently so that a smaller amount covers more food and results in
lower consumption.

Kicking up foods by using herbs also eliminates the need for salt.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Pennyaline wrote:
>
> What part the specific separation of positive and negative ions did I
> trim out? Your original didn't have anything about the composition of
> table salt except your erroneous statement that it is close to 100% sodium.

So you naturally assumed he meant
sodium metal rather than sodium salt?

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:23:44 -0800, sf > wrote:


>
>Here's what I don't understand. Why is salt made from recently
>evaporated sea water supposedly better than sea water that was
>evaporated eons ago and mined recently?
>>

Trace minerals. Of course, the people selling the stuff tell you how
much better it is, but I doubt most people cannot tell the difference.
Some salts do have a different color from the minerals though.

One of the big differences is texture and mouth feel. Sea salt tends
to be more coarse and give a bit of a crunch, a burst of salinity when
you bit into it.

With fried potatoes, it makes a bit of a difference to the taste
experience. Toss a bunch in a big bowl of mashed potatoes, I doubt
anyone can tell any difference.

Use a lot of iodized salt and you can taste the iodine though.

spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> On Mar 2, 12:09 pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark Thorson >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>>>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>>>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>>>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>>>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>>>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>>>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>>>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>>
>>> I used Morton's for several years before realizing
>>> it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
>>
>> In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
>> soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.
>>
>> My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
>> (HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
>> him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
>> was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
>> done.
>>
>
> Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
> I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.

I tried taking some extra potassium one day. Made me tense, tight, felt
strong.
Of course potassium chloride is what they use to kill people and animals.

I read about sea salt, where the amount in a recipe is adjusted. I think
you have to use more sea salt.

Greg

Pennyaline > wrote:
> On 3/2/2012 7:02 PM, gregz wrote:
>> > wrote:
>>> On Mar 2, 12:09 pm, John > wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:29:01 -0800, Mark >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>>>>>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>>>>>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>>>>>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>>>>>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>>>>>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>>>>>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>>>>
>>>>> I used Morton's for several years before realizing
>>>>> it was causing an occasional irregular heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>> In my Fluids and Electrolytes part of nursing school, I leaned the
>>>> soduim kills you via the brain and potassium kills you via the heart.
>>>>
>>>> My father, now 94, was warned a while back to reduce his sodium intake
>>>> (HTN), so he switched to KCl for salt. Not too long after his MD told
>>>> him his heartbeats were abnormal and they drew a lab, and his K+ level
>>>> was way up! So his MD told him to lay off the KCl salt, which he's
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some blood pressure medications are potassium-sparing. Personally, if
>>> I don't eat a banana a day, I start to feel weird after a week.
>>
>> I'm on that drug. I was buying no salt ketchup, and later found out it had
>> high potassium.
>
> What "drug" is that? I didn't see anything named.
>
>
Maxide.

>
>> Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
>> Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.
>
> They are hardly ignorant of it. Raised calcium and magnesium levels can
> also produce irregular heartbeat, something you seem to be ignorant of.

I don't think that's common. I had been around all kinds of researchers
doing cell biology, some working on the heart. I used to build all kinds of
stuff for their experiments. Calcium potassium balance in the cell is
needed. I had worked with folk studying heart Arrhythmias, yet, I never
discussed that with them. We had cameras taking pictures of the electrical
signals traveling near the hearts surface.

I was starting to have heart problems on occasion starting around the late
80's . I started taking extra calcium for another problem. I realized
after a while the heart was running fine. That was good for 15 years.
Started having more problems, 6 years ago, started taking magnesium.
Worked. In talking to a phd friend at work, telling about his wife, an md,
had problems after jogging. I suggested magnesium, she was already taking
extra calcium. Also had her levels checked. Worked. It's not so much the
blood potassium, but the cell potassium that mattered.

Greg

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:48:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Use a lot of iodized salt and you can taste the iodine though.

I guess a lot means a LOT because I've never gotten an iodine flavor
from it.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/2/12 9:02 PM, gregz wrote:

> I'm on that drug. I was buying no salt ketchup, and later found out it had
> high potassium.

You know tomatoes have a good amount of potassium in them, don't you?

> Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
> Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.
>
> Greg

Are you nuts? Of course doctors know about electrolytes and their
effects on the body.
Salt substitutes with their higher potassium levels are usually only a
problem for patients with impaired kidney function. As the kidneys get
less effective (disease, age, injury, etc) potassium can build up to
higher than desirable levels and can cause problems.

On 3/2/12 11:18 PM, gregz wrote:

> I tried taking some extra potassium one day. Made me tense, tight, felt
> strong.
> Of course potassium chloride is what they use to kill people and animals.

Geesh-not in any dose or route that normal people ever experience.

On 3/2/2012 12:09 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:

> My concept goes like this - We are evolved from the sea so chances are
> we'll do best with an electrolyte mixture like the sea. That's very
> roughly 90% sodium, 9% potassium and 1% other mostly calcium for the
> positive ions. Table salt is close to 100% sodium. So if we use either
> Lite Salt or Salt Substitute at the table it will very roughly counter
> the sodium we get while eating out. The kidneys work to balance out our
> electrolytes so we only need to get in the ball park for it to work.
> Based on that I looked at the gram quantities and it's been Lite Salt on
> our table ever since. I do not bother with potassium supplements.

The way I understand it is that the balance of sodium and potassium help
keep a healthy balance of water inside and outside of our cells. Too
much sodium and not enough potassium dehydrates cells and water will
then "pool" elsewhere if it isn't peed out, and cells are not hydrated
inside enough. I have found that one sign of this for me is like
pea-sized puffs at the outside and under my eyes -- one of the places
excess fluid can accumulate. Oddly, that same puffiness can be caused
by genetic high cholesterol. At least according to my last Dr report.

Here's a neat animation of the sodium-potassium pump:
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/site...p_works.htm l

And here's mo

"How The Body Maintains The Correct Fluid Balance Inside Its Cells

Not only do we need to maintain a healthy water intake, in addition we
need to maintain a healthy fluid balance inside and outside our cells.
For example, although cells that contain too little water will die,
those that contain too much will rupture and burst. The human body
maintains a proper fluid balance through the action of mineral compounds
(mostly from sodium and potassium) called electrolytes in conjunction
with the sodium pump. Put simply, the sodium pump is a mechanism which
ensures that a cell does not retain too much sodium (which attracts
water via osmosis across the semi-permeable membrane of the cell wall)
and thus stops too much water from entering the cell."
http://www.annecollins.com/water-int...id-balance.htm

I feel constantly dehydrated so I want to reduce sodium not only because
my BP is fluctuating high down to borderline and back again, and with
the cholesterol problem, and the fact that I can't seem to cut out
sodium (I salt EVERYTHING and crave salt) I need to find an alternative
and work it back to no added salt at all.

On 3/2/12 11:18 PM, gregz wrote:

> I don't think that's common. I had been around all kinds of researchers
> doing cell biology, some working on the heart. I used to build all kinds of
> stuff for their experiments. Calcium potassium balance in the cell is
> needed. I had worked with folk studying heart Arrhythmias, yet, I never
> discussed that with them. We had cameras taking pictures of the electrical
> signals traveling near the hearts surface.
>
> I was starting to have heart problems on occasion starting around the late
> 80's . I started taking extra calcium for another problem. I realized
> after a while the heart was running fine. That was good for 15 years.
> Started having more problems, 6 years ago, started taking magnesium.
> Worked. In talking to a phd friend at work, telling about his wife, an md,
> had problems after jogging. I suggested magnesium, she was already taking
> extra calcium. Also had her levels checked. Worked. It's not so much the
> blood potassium, but the cell potassium that mattered.
>
> Greg

potassium is found in higher concentrations within the cell, unlike
sodium which is found in higher concentration outside of the cell. It is
the constant rebalancing of electrolytes (Google "sodium-potassium
pump") which is what makes things tick and tock in your body. Calcium
and mag are also elements needed, but its pretty unusual for
Joe-Blow-on-the-Street whose otherwise healthy to need to play around
with electrolyte supplements.

On 3/2/2012 12:28 PM, Polly Esther wrote:

> A simple answer. I've discovered that a hefty splat of Penzey's
> 'white' pepper will quite often take the place of salt nicely. I bought
> the white pepper thinking it would be nice on white potato dishes. Polly

Hi Polly. I can't imagine pepper of any flavor taking the place of
salt, but I'm going to work toward reducing my sodium intake. I know
many foods have enough for our body without adding more during cooking
or at the table, but I'm a salt freak and it's catching up with me.

thanks.

On 3/2/2012 1:00 PM, dsi1 wrote:

> On 3/1/2012 7:05 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>> I have reason to know that I am one that is sensitive to excess sodium.
>> I also have blood pressure that fluctuates between high and borderline.
>>
>> I was researching salt subs and discovered that potassium chloride salt
>> subs can be dangerous, so I'll talk to my doctor before using one, but I
>> was wondering if anyone who uses one has a favorite? I read that
>> Morton's sub is bitter if you sub it in cooking but is fine sprinkled
>> on. If you have to eliminate salt in cooking what is the next best way
>> to bring out flavors? I guess it depends on what you're cooking? My
>> first thought is meat or pasta during the cooking process. Ideas?
>>
>
> The simplest solution is to use a salt with MSG. You could probably cut
> down your table salt use by at least 20% and a lot more if using a salt
> substitute.

I did see that as an option, thanks.

On 3/2/2012 10:17 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
> if you want to have a bit of flavor in pasta, squeeze a little lemon
> juice into the boiling water and forgo the sodium whatever.
>
> As for salt subs, we found that it was easier to just not use it. If we
> do use any salt, it's Salt Sense which is real salt, but milled
> differently so that a smaller amount covers more food and results in
> lower consumption.
>
> Kicking up foods by using herbs also eliminates the need for salt.

Thanks Janet. I'm a saltaholic so I need to step it down. I salt
everything and never had a problem.

I'm going to try lemon juice, though. I know it changes "flavor"
depending on what you use it in, so that would be an interesting
experiment.

On 3/3/2012 12:21 AM, Goomba wrote:

> Are you nuts? Of course doctors know about electrolytes and their
> effects on the body.
> Salt substitutes with their higher potassium levels are usually only a
> problem for patients with impaired kidney function. As the kidneys get
> less effective (disease, age, injury, etc) potassium can build up to
> higher than desirable levels and can cause problems.

I get my kidney and liver functions tested regularly due to some meds,
and like I said, I'm going to talk to my doctor about a potassium salt
sub to see if I'm ok to use it. I'd sure hate to have to go cold turkey
not salting at the table.

On 3/2/2012 9:18 PM, gregz wrote:
> > wrote:

>>> Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
>>> Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.
>>
>> They are hardly ignorant of it. Raised calcium and magnesium levels can
>> also produce irregular heartbeat, something you seem to be ignorant of.
>
> I don't think that's common. I had been around all kinds of researchers
> doing cell biology, some working on the heart. I used to build all kinds of
> stuff for their experiments. Calcium potassium balance in the cell is
> needed. I had worked with folk studying heart Arrhythmias, yet, I never
> discussed that with them. We had cameras taking pictures of the electrical
> signals traveling near the hearts surface.


I wasn't referring to "calcium potassium balance." That's your
inference. What I was saying is that excesses of calcium and magnesium
can cause problems. In the case of calcium and its part in electrical
conduction through the heart, arrhythmias are often successfully
controlled with calcium channel blockers. In post-menopausal women
taking bisphosphonates with high-dose calcium supplements, interference
with CCBs and reestablishment of arrhythmias is commonplace.

Magnesium is effective for controlling skeletal muscle irritability at
therapeutic levels, but causes muscle weakness, arrhyhtmias and cardiac
arrest when levels are too high. There is a tendency for potassium and
magnesium levels to go hand in hand.



> I was starting to have heart problems on occasion starting around the late
> 80's . I started taking extra calcium for another problem. I realized
> after a while the heart was running fine. That was good for 15 years.
> Started having more problems, 6 years ago, started taking magnesium.
> Worked. In talking to a phd friend at work, telling about his wife, an md,
> had problems after jogging. I suggested magnesium, she was already taking
> extra calcium. Also had her levels checked. Worked. It's not so much the
> blood potassium, but the cell potassium that mattered.


Rather than making suggestions to your PhD and MD friends about what you
believe they should be taking for cardiac symptoms, why don't you
suggest to them that they see their own physicians for cardiac workups
that will include electrolyte panels? Then they'll know for sure what
they need and don't need.

On 3/2/2012 10:21 PM, Goomba wrote:
> On 3/2/12 9:02 PM, gregz wrote:
>
>> I'm on that drug. I was buying no salt ketchup, and later found out it
>> had
>> high potassium.
>
> You know tomatoes have a good amount of potassium in them, don't you?

People are always astonished to learn that tomatoes, oranges, potatoes,
beans, meat, yogurt and cheese are excellent potassium sources.
Everybody thinks bananas for potassium, when in reality they are one of
the least effective vehicles for it.



>> Lowered calcium and or magnesium, will also produce abnormal heartbeats.
>> Many doctors are ignorant of this fact.
>>
>> Greg
>
> Are you nuts? Of course doctors know about electrolytes and their
> effects on the body.
> Salt substitutes with their higher potassium levels are usually only a
> problem for patients with impaired kidney function. As the kidneys get
> less effective (disease, age, injury, etc) potassium can build up to
> higher than desirable levels and can cause problems.

Yeah, I loved that statement myself. Nobody in medicine knows anything
about electrolyte balance evidently, at least according to this guy.

On 3/2/2012 8:36 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> Pennyaline wrote:
>>
>> What part the specific separation of positive and negative ions did I
>> trim out? Your original didn't have anything about the composition of
>> table salt except your erroneous statement that it is close to 100% sodium.
>
> So you naturally assumed he meant
> sodium metal rather than sodium salt?

I didn't assume anything about what he meant. I told him that his
misstatement is full of ignorant shit, and it is.

On 3/2/2012 9:25 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:48:05 -0500, Ed > wrote:
>
>> Use a lot of iodized salt and you can taste the iodine though.
>
> I guess a lot means a LOT because I've never gotten an iodine flavor
> from it.

The amount of iodide in iodized salt is so small that you'd have to
ingest it by the boxful to taste any of it.

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 00:13:58 -0700, Pennyaline
> wrote:

> On 3/2/2012 9:25 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:48:05 -0500, Ed > wrote:
> >
> >> Use a lot of iodized salt and you can taste the iodine though.
> >
> > I guess a lot means a LOT because I've never gotten an iodine flavor
> > from it.
>
> The amount of iodide in iodized salt is so small that you'd have to
> ingest it by the boxful to taste any of it.
>
Thanks, Penny! I've seen so many complaints about it here in rfc over
the years, I wondered.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.