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Gary > wrote:
> Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:39:21 -0500, Gary wrote:
>>> None of my eggs will ever combine with olive oil

>>
>> After reading about it here I tried it years ago. Not so good.

>
> No kidding. Years ago, I read someone that made scrambled eggs using olive
> oil. Oh dear lord! NOT ME!
>
> Olive oil is ok in it's place, and I realize that everyone's taste is
> different, but not with eggs for me. arrghhh!
>
> Gary


Bacon grease!!!! They will not stick.

Greg
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On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > writes:
>
>> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
>>> John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Bryan wrote:
>>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
>>>>> pregancy. Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. It's a matter of how rancid
>>>>> is acceptable. Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
>>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. The only oil I know of
>>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. Rancid
>>>>> fat is bad.
>>>>
>>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
>>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
>>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
>>>> you said so?
>>>>
>>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!
>>>
>>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. :-D

>>
>> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
>> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
>> old-fashioned.

>
> Sounds more like you lack imagination. I can easily imagine a large
> number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
> helped me like that.


No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.


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On Feb 23, 12:44*am, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
>
>
> > > *writes:

>
> >> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
> >>> John Kuthe wrote:

>
> >>>>>> Bryan wrote:
> >>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
> >>>>> pregancy. *Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. *It's a matter of how rancid
> >>>>> is acceptable. *Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
> >>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. *The only oil I know of
> >>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. *Rancid
> >>>>> fat is bad.

>
> >>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
> >>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
> >>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
> >>>> you said so?

>
> >>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!

>
> >>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. *:-D

>
> >> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
> >> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
> >> old-fashioned.

>
> > Sounds more like you lack imagination. *I can easily imagine a large
> > number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
> > helped me like that.

>
> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.


How about he deliberately viciously kills your child in front of you,
all the while looking you right in the eye and laughing at the pain it
causes you?

John Kuthe...
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:14:47 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
> wrote:

>
> How about he deliberately viciously kills your child in front of you,
> all the while looking you right in the eye and laughing at the pain it
> causes you?


Let's try to think of ordinary things.

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On 2/22/2012 9:14 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Feb 23, 12:44 am, > wrote:
>> On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> > writes:

>>
>>>> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
>>>>> John Kuthe wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>> Bryan wrote:
>>>>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
>>>>>>> pregancy. Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. It's a matter of how rancid
>>>>>>> is acceptable. Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
>>>>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. The only oil I know of
>>>>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. Rancid
>>>>>>> fat is bad.

>>
>>>>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
>>>>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
>>>>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
>>>>>> you said so?

>>
>>>>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!

>>
>>>>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. :-D

>>
>>>> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
>>>> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
>>>> old-fashioned.

>>
>>> Sounds more like you lack imagination. I can easily imagine a large
>>> number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
>>> helped me like that.

>>
>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> How about he deliberately viciously kills your child in front of you,
> all the while looking you right in the eye and laughing at the pain it
> causes you?


You *******! My guess is that you shouldn't be blabbing this all over
Usenet!

>
> John Kuthe...




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On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:14:40 -0800 (PST) in rec.food.cooking, John Kuthe
> wrote,
>On Feb 21, 9:37*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>> So the true answer is "poloymerization of fats s and carbon".
>>
>> -sw

>
>Interesting. Looks like we are both correct.
>
>John Kuthe...


Looks to me like you are wrong, John. You are clutching at a thread.
For an example of a surface that's mostly black iron oxide, look at the
scale on a sheet of hot rolled steel.

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On Feb 23, 2:46*am, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 9:14 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 23, 12:44 am, > *wrote:
> >> On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

>
> >>> > * *writes:

>
> >>>> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
> >>>>> John Kuthe wrote:

>
> >>>>>>>> Bryan wrote:
> >>>>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
> >>>>>>> pregancy. *Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. *It's a matter of how rancid
> >>>>>>> is acceptable. *Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
> >>>>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. *The only oil I know of
> >>>>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. *Rancid
> >>>>>>> fat is bad.

>
> >>>>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
> >>>>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
> >>>>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
> >>>>>> you said so?

>
> >>>>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!

>
> >>>>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. *:-D

>
> >>>> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
> >>>> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
> >>>> old-fashioned.


He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. I
wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
product. That would have been stealing.
>
> >>> Sounds more like you lack imagination. *I can easily imagine a large
> >>> number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
> >>> helped me like that.

>
> >> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> > How about he deliberately viciously kills your child in front of you,
> > all the while looking you right in the eye and laughing at the pain it
> > causes you?

>
> You *******! My guess is that you shouldn't be blabbing this all over
> Usenet!
>

A hypothetical.
>
> > John Kuthe...


--Bryan
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On Feb 23, 6:16*am, Bryan > wrote:
....
>
> He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
> name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. *I
> wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
> product. *That would have been stealing.

....

One day old, dufus. We never kept any donuts for two days, except
that Sunday morning it snowed 20 inches and we had most everything
that I made left the next day!

John Kuthe...
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On Feb 23, 8:38*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 6:16*am, Bryan > wrote:
> ...
>
> > He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
> > name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. *I
> > wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
> > product. *That would have been stealing.

>
> ...
>
> One day old, dufus. *We never kept any donuts for two days, except
> that Sunday morning it snowed 20 inches and we had most everything
> that I made left the next day!


Danny Donut sold the old fashioneds the next day. They were
considered to have longer shelf life than the regular cake donuts, and
certainly better than the yeast raised, which went to crap within
10-12 hours. How can you not remember that detail?
I got snowed in for 3 years with Maggie May.
>
> John Kuthe...


--Bryan
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On Feb 23, 9:05*am, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 8:38*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 6:16*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > ...

>
> > > He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
> > > name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. *I
> > > wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
> > > product. *That would have been stealing.

>
> > ...

>
> > One day old, dufus. *We never kept any donuts for two days, except
> > that Sunday morning it snowed 20 inches and we had most everything
> > that I made left the next day!

>
> Danny Donut sold the old fashioneds the next day. *They were
> considered to have longer shelf life than the regular cake donuts, and
> certainly better than the yeast raised, which went to crap within
> 10-12 hours. *How can you not remember that detail?
> I got snowed in for 3 years with Maggie May.


You are correct, I remember that now. How I did not remember is it was
20+ years ago. But we didn't always sell all the Old Fashioned day-
old. Only when we had a lot of them left the next day. If we sold out
or only had a few left, those few went in the dumpster like all the
other day-olds.

And all I did was put them in a box and put the box on top of the
dumpster so you wouldn't have to dig in the dumpster for them. The
least I could do, yano?

John Kuthe...


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dsi1 > writes:

> On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>> > writes:
>>
>>> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
>>>> John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Bryan wrote:
>>>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
>>>>>> pregancy. Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. It's a matter of how rancid
>>>>>> is acceptable. Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
>>>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. The only oil I know of
>>>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. Rancid
>>>>>> fat is bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
>>>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
>>>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
>>>>> you said so?
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!
>>>>
>>>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. :-D
>>>
>>> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
>>> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
>>> old-fashioned.

>>
>> Sounds more like you lack imagination. I can easily imagine a large
>> number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
>> helped me like that.

>
> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.


Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? (Or of somebody very important in
your life.)
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On Feb 23, 9:16*am, Bull > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 6:16*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > ...

>
> > > He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
> > > name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. *I
> > > wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
> > > product. *That would have been stealing.

> > ...

>
> > One day old, dufus. *We never kept any donuts for two days, except
> > that Sunday morning it snowed 20 inches and we had most everything
> > that I made left the next day!

>
> > John Kuthe...

>
> Small baby duck -- what happened to all the goodbyes? Whole new world
> today?


Dude, the "dufus" thing is part of the "childlike" schema. Second
grade insult. If you're choosing to tune in on a poorly produced soap
opera, you shouldn't expect much. Besides, I got that he meant
"goodbye" personally.
>
> B *U * * * * * LL


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On Feb 23, 9:39*am, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 9:16*am, Bull > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > *John Kuthe > wrote:

>
> > > On Feb 23, 6:16*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > > ...

>
> > > > He diverted two day old "old fashioned" (I kid you not, that was the
> > > > name of the variety) donuts that we destined for the dumpster. *I
> > > > wouldn't have asked for, nor do I think he would have offered salable
> > > > product. *That would have been stealing.
> > > ...

>
> > > One day old, dufus. *We never kept any donuts for two days, except
> > > that Sunday morning it snowed 20 inches and we had most everything
> > > that I made left the next day!

>
> > > John Kuthe...

>
> > Small baby duck -- what happened to all the goodbyes? Whole new world
> > today?

>
> Dude, the "dufus" thing is part of the "childlike" schema. *Second
> grade insult. *If you're choosing to tune in on a poorly produced soap
> opera, you shouldn't expect much. *Besides, I got that he meant
> "goodbye" personally.
>


You've got that right. Like I said, you have not only become no fun
but MEAN! You are mean to your son (I've seen it and mentioned it to
you!) and the last few times I've visited you it was absolutely no fun
for me. Why maintain any kind of interpersonal relationship for which
there is no positive payoff and significant negative?

You will grow further into an old bitter mean man, even more than you
are already. And I have no use for YOU!

John Kuthe...
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On Feb 23, 9:38*am, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:
> dsi1 > writes:
> > On 2/22/2012 5:52 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> >> > *writes:

>
> >>> On 2/22/2012 12:02 PM, Gary wrote:
> >>>> John Kuthe wrote:

>
> >>>>>>> Bryan wrote:
> >>>>>> All fats that are not fully saturated go rancid, and it's not like
> >>>>>> pregancy. *Fats can be a tiny bit rancid. *It's a matter of how rancid
> >>>>>> is acceptable. *Your sister's oil is absolutely somewhat rancid from
> >>>>>> over a year at room temp, exposed to oxygen. *The only oil I know of
> >>>>>> that that I'd store for over a year at room temp is MCT oil. *Rancid
> >>>>>> fat is bad.

>
> >>>>> How do you know your precious Medium Chain Triglyceride (I just had to
> >>>>> expand that abbreviation since you never do!) oil can be stored a year
> >>>>> at room temp without going rancid? Because the company that sold it to
> >>>>> you said so?

>
> >>>>> BTW your obsession is showing again!

>
> >>>> He used to be your good friend, John. Be nice. *:-D

>
> >>> OTOH, if somebody fed me when I was homeless, I would be eternally
> >>> grateful and loyal to that person no matter what. Guess I'm just
> >>> old-fashioned.

>
> >> Sounds more like you lack imagination. *I can easily imagine a large
> >> number of things that would break my loyalty even to somebody who had
> >> helped me like that.

>
> > No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? *(Or of somebody very important in
> your life.)


Throwing small but spiny little cacti at you every afternoon, just
before 3.

> --
> David Dyer-Bennet


--Bryan
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On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > writes:
>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? (Or of somebody very important in
> your life.)


Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of reasons
to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the concept of
loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and my dad. My
father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him for that but do
not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy weight to carry.


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dsi1 > writes:

> On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>> > writes:
>>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>>
>> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? (Or of somebody very important in
>> your life.)

>
> Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of
> reasons to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the
> concept of loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and
> my dad. My father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him
> for that but do not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy
> weight to carry.


It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.

From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.
--
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On Feb 23, 4:38*pm, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:
> dsi1 > writes:
> > On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> >> > *writes:
> >>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> >> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? *(Or of somebody very important in
> >> your life.)

>
> > Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of
> > reasons to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the
> > concept of loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and
> > my dad. My father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him
> > for that but do not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy
> > weight to carry.

>
> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.
>
> From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.


Good point. The only "infinite" loyalty I have is to my son, which is
exemplified when years ago a boating friend of mine asked me if I
absolutely HAD to kill one or the other, would I kill my father or my
son? And I without hesitation I said "My father, and I would expect my
son to make the same choice if forced to." And he knew that I knew
exactly what he was getting at my asking such a question.

But that absolute notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to expect a
somewhat less extreme level of loyalty between long time "friends".
Bryan was the "friend" I had for the longest time of people not
related by blood to me. And I finally realized what I had been
suspecting for a LONG time now, that Bryan is no longer any kind of
"friend" to me, if he ever was. I think he was more in the past. For
chrissakes, we lived together 3 times, and almost came to fisticuffs
that 3rd time! But he was never such a deliberate and extreme asshole
to me as he was here on RFC. Never. That was the level of loyalty we
used to respect with each other. Being at least minimally decent and
sometimes better than that to each other.

I knows Bryan will turn this around and say "But you called me
obsessed!" But he is, as evidenced over and over and over.

John Kuthe...
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On Feb 23, 4:56*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 4:38*pm, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > dsi1 > writes:
> > > On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > >> > *writes:
> > >>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> > >> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? *(Or of somebody very important in
> > >> your life.)

>
> > > Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of
> > > reasons to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the
> > > concept of loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and
> > > my dad. My father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him
> > > for that but do not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy
> > > weight to carry.

>
> > It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.

>
> > From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
> > essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>
> Good point. The only "infinite" loyalty I have is to my son, which is
> exemplified when years ago a boating friend of mine asked me if I
> absolutely HAD to kill one or the other, would I kill my father or my
> son? And I without hesitation I said "My father, and I would expect my
> son to make the same choice if forced to." And he knew that I knew
> exactly what he was getting at my asking such a question.
>
> But that absolute notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to expect a
> somewhat less extreme level of loyalty between long time "friends".
> Bryan was the "friend" I had for the longest time of people not
> related by blood to me. And I finally realized what I had been
> suspecting for a LONG time now, that Bryan is no longer any kind of
> "friend" to me, if he ever was. I think he was more in the past. For
> chrissakes, we lived together 3 times, and almost came to fisticuffs
> that 3rd time! But he was never such a deliberate and extreme asshole
> to me as he was here on RFC. Never. *That was the level of loyalty we
> used to respect with each other. Being at least minimally decent and
> sometimes better than that to each other.
>
> I knows Bryan will turn this around and say "But you called me
> obsessed!" But he is, as evidenced over and over and over.


You're every bit as obsessed...with calling me obsessed. You have not
been minimally decent either, basically calling me a fool. You, Sir,
are the fool. Whereas before you started this bullshit, the
likelihood that any employer who bothered to do the most cursory
search of the internet, would have been very unlikely to give you a
nursing job, after this bullshit, your chances are further
diminished. Think about it from their perspective. You look like a
guy who is anything *but* fascinated by details about nutrition, and
you make psychiatric diagnoses over the internet. Would *you* hire
someone like you? You're more concerned about looking like the winner
of an argument than you are about public health, or even if you aren't
really, most reasonable folks would see it that way.
But you just couldn't stop insulting me, even though it made you look
worse and worse, and less and less appealing to prospective
employers. You're the obsessed one, the out of control one. I bet
you wish you'd never used your real name on the internet. You might
as well keep going with your "Bryan is obsessed" posts because you
couldn't look any worse than you do right now, and everyone here, even
you, knows that's true.
>
> John Kuthe...


--Bryan
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On Feb 23, 5:57*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 4:56*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 23, 4:38*pm, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:

>
> > > dsi1 > writes:
> > > > On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > > >> > *writes:
> > > >>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>
> > > >> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? *(Or of somebody very important in
> > > >> your life.)

>
> > > > Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of
> > > > reasons to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the
> > > > concept of loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and
> > > > my dad. My father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him
> > > > for that but do not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy
> > > > weight to carry.

>
> > > It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.

>
> > > From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
> > > essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>
> > Good point. The only "infinite" loyalty I have is to my son, which is
> > exemplified when years ago a boating friend of mine asked me if I
> > absolutely HAD to kill one or the other, would I kill my father or my
> > son? And I without hesitation I said "My father, and I would expect my
> > son to make the same choice if forced to." And he knew that I knew
> > exactly what he was getting at my asking such a question.

>
> > But that absolute notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to expect a
> > somewhat less extreme level of loyalty between long time "friends".
> > Bryan was the "friend" I had for the longest time of people not
> > related by blood to me. And I finally realized what I had been
> > suspecting for a LONG time now, that Bryan is no longer any kind of
> > "friend" to me, if he ever was. I think he was more in the past. For
> > chrissakes, we lived together 3 times, and almost came to fisticuffs
> > that 3rd time! But he was never such a deliberate and extreme asshole
> > to me as he was here on RFC. Never. *That was the level of loyalty we
> > used to respect with each other. Being at least minimally decent and
> > sometimes better than that to each other.

>
> > I knows Bryan will turn this around and say "But you called me
> > obsessed!" But he is, as evidenced over and over and over.

>
> You're every bit as obsessed...with calling me obsessed. *You have not
> been minimally decent either, basically calling me a fool. *You, Sir,
> are the fool. *Whereas before you started this bullshit, the
> likelihood that any employer who bothered to do the most cursory
> search of the internet, would have been very unlikely to give you a
> nursing job, after this bullshit, your chances are further
> diminished. *Think about it from their perspective. *You look like a
> guy who is anything *but* fascinated by details about nutrition, and
> you make psychiatric diagnoses over the internet. *Would *you* hire
> someone like you? *You're more concerned about looking like the winner
> of an argument than you are about public health, or even if you aren't
> really, most reasonable folks would see it that way.
> But you just couldn't stop insulting me, even though it made you look
> worse and worse, and less and less appealing to prospective
> employers. *You're the obsessed one, the out of control one. *I bet
> you wish you'd never used your real name on the internet. *You might
> as well keep going with your "Bryan is obsessed" posts because you
> couldn't look any worse than you do right now, and everyone here, even
> you, knows that's true.
>
>
>
> > John Kuthe...

>
> --Bryan


Told ya so!

;-)

John Kuthe...
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On 2/23/2012 12:38 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.
>
> From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.


What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty? It's
obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few people
believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past it was all
that mattered.


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dsi1 > wrote:

>What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty? It's
>obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few people
>believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past it was all
>that mattered.


That's because tribal values have been replaced by universal human
values. It's part of mankind becoming more mature.


Steve
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On 2/23/2012 7:20 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty? It's
>> obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few people
>> believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past it was all
>> that mattered.

>
> That's because tribal values have been replaced by universal human
> values. It's part of mankind becoming more mature.
>
>
> Steve


There's a lot of people that aren't able to see beyond their own little
world of desires. Mostly, these people are under the age of 6. As we
grow older we see that there are more things in this world besides
ourselves.

Is petty bickering the mark of the new mature world of universal human
values? Is selfishness and operating in a self-serving manner traits
that we admire? Do we have any heroes that were not loyal to a cause or
an ideal or a country? Can honor and duty exist without loyalty?
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Steve Pope wrote:

>>What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty? It's
>>obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few people
>>believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past it was all
>>that mattered.

>
>That's because tribal values have been replaced by universal human
>values. It's part of mankind becoming more mature.


That may be the rule in our society, but it's not universal.


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On Feb 24, 3:20*am, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 2/23/2012 7:20 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
> > > *wrote:

>
> >> What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty? It's
> >> obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few people
> >> believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past it was all
> >> that mattered.

>
> > That's because tribal values have been replaced by universal human
> > values. *It's part of mankind becoming more mature.

>
> > Steve

>
> There's a lot of people that aren't able to see beyond their own little
> world of desires. Mostly, these people are under the age of 6. As we
> grow older we see that there are more things in this world besides
> ourselves.

....

Hopefully, but not always. :-(

John Kuthe...
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On Feb 23, 5:57*pm, Bryan > wrote:
....
> You're every bit as obsessed...with calling me obsessed. *You have not
> been minimally decent either, basically calling me a fool.

....
> You might
> as well keep going with your "Bryan is obsessed" posts because you
> couldn't look any worse than you do right now, and everyone here, even
> you, knows that's true.


Awwww, did I hurt your widdle feewings?

(sniff sniff!)

John Kuthe...


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John Kuthe > writes:

> On Feb 23, 4:38*pm, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:
>> dsi1 > writes:
>> > On 2/23/2012 5:38 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>> >> > *writes:
>> >>> No doubt you are correct about this. I can't think of a damn thing.

>>
>> >> Rape-torture-murder of your daughter? *(Or of somebody very important in
>> >> your life.)

>>
>> > Loyalty arises out of obligation. If you spend time thinking of
>> > reasons to get out of your obligations, you haven't quite gotten the
>> > concept of loyalty. As it goes, I'm only loyal to my wife and kids and
>> > my dad. My father has people that are loyal to him and I admire him
>> > for that but do not envy his position - I consider that to be a heavy
>> > weight to carry.

>>
>> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.
>>
>> From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
>> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>
> Good point. The only "infinite" loyalty I have is to my son, which is
> exemplified when years ago a boating friend of mine asked me if I
> absolutely HAD to kill one or the other, would I kill my father or my
> son? And I without hesitation I said "My father, and I would expect my
> son to make the same choice if forced to." And he knew that I knew
> exactly what he was getting at my asking such a question.


And with any luck it won't ever come up.

That's the kind of hypothetical I've taken to telling people I can't
really think seriously about (like would I kill a random person for 10
million dollars if I knew it'd never be known I'd done it). I can't
figure out what would convince me that the limited choices in the
hypothetical were actually 1) real, and 2) the only available choices.
If something had actually convinced me -- then everything is different
from my just sitting here telling myself I'm taking those limits as
given, so I might well come to different choices.

Your answer seems to be the obvious one, if you're going to accept the
hypothetical question in the first place. I'd also accept "I'd make the
best attempt I could to kill the person offering me that choice."

> But that absolute notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to expect a
> somewhat less extreme level of loyalty between long time "friends".


I do too.

> Bryan was the "friend" I had for the longest time of people not
> related by blood to me. And I finally realized what I had been
> suspecting for a LONG time now, that Bryan is no longer any kind of
> "friend" to me, if he ever was. I think he was more in the past. For
> chrissakes, we lived together 3 times, and almost came to fisticuffs
> that 3rd time! But he was never such a deliberate and extreme asshole
> to me as he was here on RFC. Never. That was the level of loyalty we
> used to respect with each other. Being at least minimally decent and
> sometimes better than that to each other.
>
> I knows Bryan will turn this around and say "But you called me
> obsessed!" But he is, as evidenced over and over and over.


That sounds complicated and kind of unfortunate. I haven't had any
friendships deteriorate to that level so far (there are still people I'm
in touch with that I've known since 1968, outside my immediate family).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
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dsi1 > writes:

> On 2/23/2012 12:38 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>
>> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.
>>
>> From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
>> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>
> What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty?


If the only loyalty you can conceive of is total and irrevocable --
nothing. But nobody is worthy of that.

> It's obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few
> people believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past
> it was all that mattered.


I think you're imagining a perfect past, there. Reading about medieval
sovereigns and their vassals, and clan chieftains elsewhere, and trives
everywhere, the theoretical model is often based on loyalty, but the
real practice had betrayals all over the place. Originating from either
side of the bond. The reality doesn't seem very perfect -- it's the
stuff that blood feuds lasting generations and costing hundreds of lives
are built on.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
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On Feb 24, 12:59*pm, David Dyer-Bennet > wrote:
....
>
> That sounds complicated and kind of unfortunate. *I haven't had any
> friendships deteriorate to that level so far (there are still people I'm
> in touch with that I've known since 1968, outside my immediate family).


Bryan is just mired in an obsessive neurosis right now. I hope he gets
over it, but I know Bryan very well. There is only one person he will
listen to, his wife. And unless and until she intercedes, this could
go on for a LONG time.

If he ever gets over this, I'll always be here. That's what friends
are all about. But while he's obsessing, I have no use for him.

John Kuthe...
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On 2/24/2012 9:03 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > writes:
>
>> On 2/23/2012 12:38 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>>
>>> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.
>>>
>>> From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
>>> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>>
>> What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty?

>
> If the only loyalty you can conceive of is total and irrevocable --
> nothing. But nobody is worthy of that.
>
>> It's obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few
>> people believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past
>> it was all that mattered.

>
> I think you're imagining a perfect past, there. Reading about medieval
> sovereigns and their vassals, and clan chieftains elsewhere, and trives
> everywhere, the theoretical model is often based on loyalty, but the
> real practice had betrayals all over the place. Originating from either
> side of the bond. The reality doesn't seem very perfect -- it's the
> stuff that blood feuds lasting generations and costing hundreds of lives
> are built on.


You say this but there were people that would cut their bellies open and
pull out their guts for their clan leader. Some loyalties are infinite
and some are switchable and some are mostly lip service. I already knew
that this was not a perfect world.

OTOH, this is getting too abstract. My simple statement was that if
someone fed me when I was down, I'd be loyal to them and that ain't lip
service. After all, that would be the honorable thing to do. My guess is
that you like to get things all cloudy with imaginary scenarios.
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John Kuthe wrote:
>
> If he ever gets over this, I'll always be here. That's what friends
> are all about. But while he's obsessing, I have no use for him.


No John. What true friends are all about is sticking with them even during
hard times. And you are not doing that. I feel he's a bit overboard with
the diet thing too but he might know more than I do. Keep in mind, he lost
a lot of weight with his plan so he's going to promote it. Healthy in the
long run? I have my doubts but hey....whatever works.

I personally believe in what you are doing, John. Assuming a fairly healthy
diet, just eat what you always did....just eat less and add some extra
excercise. The extra pounds will start disappearing soon enough.

You two long-time friends need to end this feud. Just kiss and make up.
Well no....don't kiss, just end this nonsense.

Gary


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On Feb 24, 1:24*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 2/24/2012 9:03 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
>
>
> > > *writes:

>
> >> On 2/23/2012 12:38 PM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

>
> >>> It's no effort. As I say, you clearly have a rather mild imagination.

>
> >>> * From my point of view, you claimed a level of loyalty that was
> >>> essentially infinite, and *that* isn't something I believe in.

>
> >> What the heck does my level of imagination have to do with loyalty?

>
> > If the only loyalty you can conceive of is total and irrevocable --
> > nothing. *But nobody is worthy of that.

>
> >> It's obvious that you didn't place much stock in the idea. Very few
> >> people believe in unconditional loyalty these days. Back in the past
> >> it was all that mattered.

>
> > I think you're imagining a perfect past, there. *Reading about medieval
> > sovereigns and their vassals, and clan chieftains elsewhere, and trives
> > everywhere, the theoretical model is often based on loyalty, but the
> > real practice had betrayals all over the place. *Originating from either
> > side of the bond. *The reality doesn't seem very perfect -- it's the
> > stuff that blood feuds lasting generations and costing hundreds of lives
> > are built on.

>
> You say this but there were people that would cut their bellies open and
> pull out their guts for their clan leader. Some loyalties are infinite
> and some are switchable and some are mostly lip service. I already knew
> that this was not a perfect world.


Loyalty like that is scary. Like that of suicide bombers. Borne out of
pure delusion is the scariest part!! There are no 72 virgins no more
than there is the Mormon's planet Kolob!!!

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On 2/24/2012 9:38 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Feb 24, 1:24 pm, > wrote:
>> You say this but there were people that would cut their bellies open and
>> pull out their guts for their clan leader. Some loyalties are infinite
>> and some are switchable and some are mostly lip service. I already knew
>> that this was not a perfect world.

>
> Loyalty like that is scary. Like that of suicide bombers. Borne out of
> pure delusion is the scariest part!! There are no 72 virgins no more
> than there is the Mormon's planet Kolob!!!
>
> John Kuthe...


I will not disagree with you on the scary part. OTOH, we can choose to
live life in an honorable or dishonorable fashion. There's no need to
blow ourselves up.
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