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Default "Fried food heart risk 'a myth' (as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil)"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...sk-a-myth.html


W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)


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On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:55:13 -0500, "Christopher M."
> wrote:

>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...sk-a-myth.html


Might be news to some... but not for everyone.
Oh but "as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil". So now they're
saying fried food is okay, but saturated fats are still bad. Give them
another decade and they might catch up to reality.
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On 1/25/2012 9:55 PM, Christopher M. wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...sk-a-myth.html



So, if you don't use olive or sunflower oil, it's NOT a myth?
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On Jan 25, 11:55*pm, "Christopher M." >
wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...
>
> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)


Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.
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On Jan 25, 10:55*pm, "Christopher M." >
wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...
>
> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)


Bryan will be on shortly, and will once again begin by bombastically
telling you everything you never wanted to know about oils, and will
then brag about how much weight he lost malnourishing himself and how
anyone who is obese of a fooll!

Go:

John Kuthe...


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> On Jan 25, 11:55*pm, "Christopher M." >
> wrote:
> > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart....


quote

"The authors of the Spanish study noted that the findings could only
really be extrapolated to other Mediterranean countries with similar
diets"


Janet
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On Jan 26, 2:40*pm, Kalmia > wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:55*pm, "Christopher M." >
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>
> > W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

>
> Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
> punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.



If the fat is at the correct temperature, whatever you are deep frying
in it won't absorb very much of it. Which helps a little, anyway. If
you are deep frying battered cheese and snicker bars I'm going to
guess that you probably weren't too concerned about your health in the
first place.
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Default "Fried food heart risk 'a myth' (as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil)"

Christopher Helms wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:40 pm, Kalmia > wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 11:55 pm, "Christopher M." >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>>
>>> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

>>
>> Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
>> punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.

>
>
> If the fat is at the correct temperature, whatever you are deep frying
> in it won't absorb very much of it. Which helps a little, anyway.


Yes. I believe that's called "good frying".

Alton Brown (Good Eats) did an episode on it.


W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)


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"Christopher M." wrote:
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...sk-a-myth.html


Amazing that you can ;ive on chicken nuggets and
french fries alone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2092071
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On Jan 26, 9:21*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> "Christopher M." wrote:
>
> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>
> Amazing that you can ;ive on chicken nuggets and
> french fries alone.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2092071


For a while!!! Protein and FAT!!

John Kuthe....


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On Jan 25, 11:15*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:55:13 -0500, "Christopher M."
>
> > wrote:
> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>
> Might be news to some... but not for everyone.
> Oh but "as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil". So now they're
> saying fried food is okay, but saturated fats are still bad. Give them
> another decade and they might catch up to reality.


It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
most people who write shit are.
Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
taste of canola. Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
essentially high oleic rapeseed.
Frying potatoes in any oil can be problematic because of acrylamide:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...lamide-in-food
Partially hydrogenated oils are awful, as they are the only fats that
contain more than tiny levels of elaidic acid. But don't just believe
the guy with the blue hair (me). This info is easy to find on the
net.

--Bryan
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On Jan 26, 11:31*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:15*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:55:13 -0500, "Christopher M."

>
> > > wrote:
> > >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart....

>
> > Might be news to some... but not for everyone.
> > Oh but "as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil". So now they're
> > saying fried food is okay, but saturated fats are still bad. Give them
> > another decade and they might catch up to reality.

>
> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> most people who write shit are.
> Olive oil is extremely good. *Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> taste of canola. *Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
> high-oleic sunflower oil. *Most common primarily saturated fats are
> fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
> Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
> essentially high oleic rapeseed.
> Frying potatoes in any oil can be problematic because of acrylamide:http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...lamide-in-food
> Partially hydrogenated oils are awful, as they are the only fats that
> contain more than tiny levels of elaidic acid. *But don't just believe
> the guy with the blue hair (me). *This info is easy to find on the
> net.
>
> --Bryan


There it is!! But Bryan, you forgot to brag about how much weight
you've lost via malnourishing yourself!! ;-)

John Kuthe...
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In article
>,
Christopher Helms > wrote:

> On Jan 26, 2:40*pm, Kalmia > wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 11:55*pm, "Christopher M." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

> >
> > > W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

> >
> > Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
> > punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.

>
>
> If the fat is at the correct temperature, whatever you are deep frying
> in it won't absorb very much of it. Which helps a little, anyway.


A little. But how much? I went to the USDA database. A raw potato has
0.1g of fat per 100g. Deep fat fried potatoes have 16.12g of fat per
100g! It appeared that the calories have pretty much doubled:

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/6614

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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In article
>,
Bryan > wrote:


> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> most people who write shit are.
> Olive oil is extremely good.


Yes, I am truly amazed. It's like the guy serving life in prison. He's
extremely good. Not only did he not rape any of his multiple victims,
but he didn't eat them afterwards! How good can you get?

Many people in affluent societies (which most of us who participate in
this group live in), are fat. We eat too much. That often includes too
much fat. It has been suggested, over the last few decades, that people
restrict their fat consumption to reasonable levels, as fat is very
calorie dense. A suggestion that has often been made is to cap fat
consumption at 30% of calories. It pains me a bit to call that "low
fat", but so be it.

Once you've decided how much fat you want to consume, then you can use
Bryan's information to help determine which fats to consume. I've
found, for instance, that I like olive oil just as much as butter for
some uses.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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Christopher Helms > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:40 pm, Kalmia > wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 11:55 pm, "Christopher M." >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>>
>>> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

>>
>> Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
>> punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.

>
>
> If the fat is at the correct temperature, whatever you are deep frying
> in it won't absorb very much of it. Which helps a little, anyway. If
> you are deep frying battered cheese and snicker bars I'm going to
> guess that you probably weren't too concerned about your health in the
> first place.


Don't remind me of the fish I had at long john silvers. Dripping.

I sometimes get fried chicken at a broasting place. The stuff is void of
any sign of being oily. Even the moisture content is low.

375 degrees is ideal, but most restaurants don't go higher than 350 to make
the oil last longer. And, I'm sure some turn on the heat and are in too
much of a rush and don't wait long enough.

Give me a fried pickle right now!

Greg


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Kalmia > wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:55 pm, "Christopher M." >
> wrote:
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...
>>
>> W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)

>
> Whether sat, unsat, whatever --- fat still packs a bigger caloric
> punch if one is concerned about packin' on some pounds.


Some not getting enough fat eat too much carbs, sweets. Fat in the right
proportion tames hunger better, so I'm saying balanced is better.
So just count calories.

Greg
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:31:29 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Jan 25, 11:15*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:55:13 -0500, "Christopher M."
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ied-food-heart...

>>
>> Might be news to some... but not for everyone.
>> Oh but "as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil". So now they're
>> saying fried food is okay, but saturated fats are still bad. Give them
>> another decade and they might catch up to reality.

>
>It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
>most people who write shit are.


I think a lot of stuff that has become generally accepted (such as
saturated fat is 'bad' for you) just gets repeated without much
thought, because everyone already 'knows' fat is bad. The medical
fraternity is very conservative in some respects and this is going to
take a long, long time before it becomes officially discredited. I've
been waiting about 10 years myself, so far

>Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
>hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
>taste of canola. Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
>high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
>fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
>Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
>essentially high oleic rapeseed.


Canola is just awful.

>Frying potatoes in any oil can be problematic because of acrylamide:
>http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...lamide-in-food
>Partially hydrogenated oils are awful, as they are the only fats that
>contain more than tiny levels of elaidic acid. But don't just believe
>the guy with the blue hair (me). This info is easy to find on the
>net.


I use olive oil, butter and animal fats - mainly duck and sheep fat
(the latter two because it's plentiful since we raise own sheep and
ducks. And duck fat is just fantastic anyway). These are all sourced
locally, which is a bonus because I know exactly how it was produced
and I know it's uncontaminated and of good quality*

*I sometimes have to get the duck fat from interstate, but it's pretty
good by my standards.
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On 1/27/2012 12:31 AM, Bryan wrote:

> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> most people who write shit are.
> Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> taste of canola. Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
> high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
> fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
> Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
> essentially high oleic rapeseed


You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. Can't cook with it though.
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On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 19:41:41 -0500, Cheryl >
wrote:

> On 1/27/2012 12:31 AM, Bryan wrote:
>
> > It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> > most people who write shit are.
> > Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> > hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> > taste of canola. Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
> > high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
> > fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
> > Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
> > essentially high oleic rapeseed

>
> You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. Can't cook with it though.


How do you use it besides in salad dressing? I bought a bottle, but
haven't opened it yet.

--

Tell congress not to censor the web. Add your voice here.
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sf wrote about walnut oil:

> How do you use it besides in salad dressing? I bought a bottle, but
> haven't opened it yet.


Try it on warm angel-hair pasta with black pepper.

Grill bread, drizzle with walnut oil, and top with arugula.

Mist it on mushrooms right after they come off the grill.

Bob


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On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:16:55 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

> sf wrote about walnut oil:
>
> > How do you use it besides in salad dressing? I bought a bottle, but
> > haven't opened it yet.

>
> Try it on warm angel-hair pasta with black pepper.
>
> Grill bread, drizzle with walnut oil, and top with arugula.
>
> Mist it on mushrooms right after they come off the grill.
>

Thanks.

--

Tell congress not to censor the web. Add your voice here.
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On Feb 1, 6:41*pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On 1/27/2012 12:31 AM, Bryan wrote:
>
> > It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> > most people who write shit are.
> > Olive oil is extremely good. *Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> > hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> > taste of canola. *Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
> > high-oleic sunflower oil. *Most common primarily saturated fats are
> > fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
> > Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
> > essentially high oleic rapeseed

>
> You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. *Can't cook with it though.


Actually, walnut is not particularly healthful. I was surprised to
find that out myself.
http://curezone.com/foods/fatspercent.asp
It is relatively high in linoleic, and relatively low in oleic. It
is, in fact, almost identical to soybean oil, just without the nasty
taste. That's no reason not to use *roasted* walnut oil for
flavoring, but pecan is a far better choice for everyday use, and the
non-roasted (neutral tasting) walnut oil has nothing good to offer.

--Bryan
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On Feb 2, 9:19*am, Bryan > wrote:
....
> Actually, walnut is not particularly healthful. *I was surprised to
> find that out myself.http://curezone.com/foods/fatspercent.asp
> It is relatively high in linoleic, and relatively low in oleic. *It
> is, in fact, almost identical to soybean oil, just without the nasty
> taste. *That's no reason not to use *roasted* walnut oil for
> flavoring, but pecan is a far better choice for everyday use, and the
> non-roasted (neutral tasting) walnut oil has nothing good to offer.
>
> --Bryan


But "Roasted Walnut" and "Black Walnut" *sound* rich and attractive. I
suppose because of the nice finish walnut wood gives when sanded,
stained and/or oiled.

Walnut *is* a very tight grained and attractive wood.

John Kuthe...
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On Feb 2, 9:29*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 9:19*am, Bryan > wrote:
> ...
>
> > Actually, walnut is not particularly healthful. *I was surprised to
> > find that out myself.http://curezone.com/foods/fatspercent.asp
> > It is relatively high in linoleic, and relatively low in oleic. *It
> > is, in fact, almost identical to soybean oil, just without the nasty
> > taste. *That's no reason not to use *roasted* walnut oil for
> > flavoring, but pecan is a far better choice for everyday use, and the
> > non-roasted (neutral tasting) walnut oil has nothing good to offer.

>
> > --Bryan

>
> But "Roasted Walnut" and "Black Walnut" *sound* rich and attractive. I
> suppose because of the nice finish walnut wood gives when sanded,
> stained and/or oiled.
>

I used to love eating black walnuts when I was a kid.
>
> John Kuthe...


--Bryan
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Cheryl wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>
>> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
>> most people who write shit are.


There's also the problem that knowledge of the topic was still expanding
and changing very recently. The book "Protein Power" by Drs Eades has
outdated information about safeflower oil. In their more recent books
the good doctors (one an MD one a PhD) Eades reversed their advice on
safeflower oil.

>> Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
>> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
>> taste of canola.


Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find it
flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.

>> Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
>> high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
>> fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
>> Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
>> essentially high oleic rapeseed

>
> You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. Can't cook with it though.


I've sauteed with walnut oil. It does okay when not heated for long.
Not good for any long lasting heat method. Walnut oil gives a nice but
subtle flavor. And it's expensive.


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On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>
>>> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
>>> most people who write shit are.

>
> There's also the problem that knowledge of the topic was still expanding
> and changing very recently. The book "Protein Power" by Drs Eades has
> outdated information about safeflower oil. In their more recent books
> the good doctors (one an MD one a PhD) Eades reversed their advice on
> safeflower oil.
>
>>> Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
>>> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
>>> taste of canola.

>
> Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find it
> flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.
>

I cook with it. If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. Flavorless
to me.

>>> Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
>>> high-oleic sunflower oil. Most common primarily saturated fats are
>>> fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids.
>>> Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
>>> essentially high oleic rapeseed

>>
>> You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. Can't cook with it though.

>
> I've sauteed with walnut oil. It does okay when not heated for long.
> Not good for any long lasting heat method. Walnut oil gives a nice but
> subtle flavor. And it's expensive.


I've never used it before. I just recently heard about it but will have
to try it.

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On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:23:28 -0500, Cheryl >
wrote:

> On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> > Cheryl wrote:
> >> Bryan wrote:
> >>
> >>> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> >>> most people who write shit are.

> >
> > There's also the problem that knowledge of the topic was still expanding
> > and changing very recently. The book "Protein Power" by Drs Eades has
> > outdated information about safeflower oil. In their more recent books
> > the good doctors (one an MD one a PhD) Eades reversed their advice on
> > safeflower oil.
> >
> >>> Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> >>> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> >>> taste of canola.

> >
> > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find it
> > flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.
> >

> I cook with it. If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. Flavorless
> to me.


Me either and I don't know anyone who says otherwise.

--
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Default "Fried food heart risk 'a myth' (as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil)"

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:23:28 -0500, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
> > On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> > > Cheryl wrote:
> > >> Bryan wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> > >>> most people who write shit are.
> > >
> > > There's also the problem that knowledge of the topic was still expanding
> > > and changing very recently. The book "Protein Power" by Drs Eades has
> > > outdated information about safeflower oil. In their more recent books
> > > the good doctors (one an MD one a PhD) Eades reversed their advice on
> > > safeflower oil.
> > >
> > >>> Olive oil is extremely good. Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> > >>> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> > >>> taste of canola.
> > >
> > > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find it
> > > flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.
> > >

> > I cook with it. If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. Flavorless
> > to me.

>
> Me either and I don't know anyone who says otherwise.


I find canola/rape-seed oil intolerable - partly in flavor (not really
either rancid or fishy, just "off" somehow), and with a somehow "sticky"
or viscous texture that is almost as off-putting as the flavor. My most
common cooking oil is peanut oil, which has none of the objectionable
qualities of canola.
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Default "Fried food heart risk 'a myth' (as long as you use olive oil or sunflower oil)"

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:37:38 -0800, Michael Siemon
> wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:23:28 -0500, Cheryl >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find it
> > > > flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.
> > > >
> > > I cook with it. If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. Flavorless
> > > to me.

> >
> > Me either and I don't know anyone who says otherwise.

>
> I find canola/rape-seed oil intolerable - partly in flavor (not really
> either rancid or fishy, just "off" somehow), and with a somehow "sticky"
> or viscous texture that is almost as off-putting as the flavor. My most
> common cooking oil is peanut oil, which has none of the objectionable
> qualities of canola.


To me, they're virtually the same in flavor.

--
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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:37:38 -0800, Michael Siemon
> > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > sf > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:23:28 -0500, Cheryl >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. Most find
> > > > > it
> > > > > flavorless. Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.
> > > > >
> > > > I cook with it. If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. Flavorless
> > > > to me.
> > >
> > > Me either and I don't know anyone who says otherwise.

> >
> > I find canola/rape-seed oil intolerable - partly in flavor (not really
> > either rancid or fishy, just "off" somehow), and with a somehow "sticky"
> > or viscous texture that is almost as off-putting as the flavor. My most
> > common cooking oil is peanut oil, which has none of the objectionable
> > qualities of canola.

>
> To me, they're virtually the same in flavor.


I guess this is like the cilantro thingy; possibly it _is_ genetic.

But I will _never_ use canola oil. I find it quite loathsome. I have
no problems with any other oil I have tried to cook with (e.g., corn
oil is fine, but I gather peanut oil is [a bit] healthier). Grape seed
oil is a tad better to my taste than peanut oil, but it is harder to
find and tends to be more expensive. I get gallons of peanut oil from
Safeway -- Planters is outrageously and pointlessly expensive. Peanut
(aka "ground nut") oil seems to be (or to have been when I was there)
_the_ standard cooking oil in SE Asia.


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On Feb 5, 7:23*pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Cheryl wrote:
> >> Bryan wrote:

>
> >>> It amazes me how much real research there is on fats, and how clueless
> >>> most people who write shit are.

>
> > There's also the problem that knowledge of the topic was still expanding
> > and changing very recently. *The book "Protein Power" by Drs Eades has
> > outdated information about safeflower oil. *In their more recent books
> > the good doctors (one an MD one a PhD) Eades reversed their advice on
> > safeflower oil.

>
> >>> Olive oil is extremely good. *Hazelnut, pecan, almond, avocado,
> >>> hickory, and canola are also great--though I happen not to like the
> >>> taste of canola.

>
> > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. *Most find it
> > flavorless. *Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.

>
> I cook with it. *If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. *Flavorless
> to me.
>
> >>> Sunflower oil is not, unless it is the newfangled
> >>> high-oleic sunflower oil. *Most common primarily saturated fats are
> >>> fine, with the exception of those high in palmitic and myristic acids..
> >>> Canola is a "newfangled" oil, bred to be high in oleic acid,
> >>> essentially high oleic rapeseed

>
> >> You missed a healthful one -- walnut oil. *Can't cook with it though..

>
> > I've sauteed with walnut oil. *It does okay when not heated for long.
> > Not good for any long lasting heat method. *Walnut oil gives a nice but
> > subtle flavor. *And it's expensive.

>
> I've never used it before. I just recently heard about it but will have
> to try it.


It is just as expensive, and far less healthful than pecan oil. It is
a poor choice.

--Bryan
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Michael Siemon > wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:


-snip-
>> To me, they're virtually the same in flavor.

>
>I guess this is like the cilantro thingy; possibly it _is_ genetic.


But, just for the record--- It is a different gene. My taste buds
agree with sf on canola/peanut oils. Cilantro & EVOO- not so much.

Jim
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On Feb 6, 3:06*am, Michael Siemon > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *sf > wrote:
> > On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:37:38 -0800, Michael Siemon
> > > wrote:

>
> > > In article >,
> > > *sf > wrote:

>
> > > > On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:23:28 -0500, Cheryl >
> > > > wrote:

>
> > > > > On 2/2/2012 3:04 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:

>
> > > > > > Reaction to canola oil appears to be a genetic variation. *Most find
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > flavorless. *Some find it fishy or almost rancid tasting.

>
> > > > > I cook with it. *If it's a genetic thing, I don't have it. *Flavorless
> > > > > to me.

>
> > > > Me either and I don't know anyone who says otherwise.

>
> > > I find canola/rape-seed oil intolerable - partly in flavor (not really
> > > either rancid or fishy, just "off" somehow), and with a somehow "sticky"
> > > or viscous texture that is almost as off-putting as the flavor. My most
> > > common cooking oil is peanut oil, which has none of the objectionable
> > > qualities of canola.

>
> > To me, they're virtually the same in flavor.

>
> I guess this is like the cilantro thingy; possibly it _is_ genetic.
>
> But I will _never_ use canola oil. I find it quite loathsome. I have
> no problems with any other oil I have tried to cook with (e.g., corn
> oil is fine, but I gather peanut oil is [a bit] healthier). Grape seed
> oil is a tad better to my taste than peanut oil, but it is harder to
> find and tends to be more expensive. I get gallons of peanut oil from
> Safeway -- Planters is outrageously and pointlessly expensive. Peanut
> (aka "ground nut") oil seems to be (or to have been when I was there)
> _the_ standard cooking oil in SE Asia.


Canola is actually more healthful than peanut, but I use peanut anyway
for frying because I dislike the flavor of canola too. For salad oil,
it's worth paying for pecan, hazelnut, macadamia, almond or avocado.
Peanut is $12-$14 a gallon at the supermarket, those other oils cost
over $30 with shipping online, so I'm not going to use them to fry if
I'll be tossing the oil afterward.

--Bryan
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Bryan wrote:
>
> I just bought 5KG of lauric acid to split with my nephew. I'm going
> to add it to whatever oil I use to make salad dressing. Research has
> shown that free lauric acid slows the emptying of stomach contents
> into the small intestine. One stays full longer.


Full longer is usually from veggies not high fat or high protein foods.
Those tend to keep hunger from coming back rather than staying full in
the first place. Nice variation.

> Today I took 2T of
> MCT oil before lifting. I was able to get more reps more easily, and
> got a good ketone high out of it too. That test strip was the darkest
> I've ever seen it. I had so much energy I did yard work.


Please note that dark on the test strips should not be a goal. Remember
what they are made for in the first place - To warn diabetics that fatal
ketoacidosis is approaching. Black on the test strips is bad not good
and should not be targetted.

That said you've learned in this process that low carbing what pushes
ketosis to higher levels. Low carb intake causes insulin output to drop
and that allows ketosis to happen at all. Insulin blocks ketosis. But
once in ketosis there is no gain to further lowering carbs. Doesn't
matter that it's obvious the chemistry just does not work that way.
Once insulin no longer blocks ketosis lowering it further does not help.
The weight lifting session also consumes any remaining carbs stored in
the muscles so it's not unusual to start a weight lifting session out of
ketosis and end a weight lifting session entering ketosis.

What does drive ketosis is is glucagon not insulin. Higher insulin
blocks glucagon and ketosis. Lower insulin stops blocking gluicagon and
ketosis. If you want more ketosis the method is not to decrease insulin
further but to increase glucagon. The body releases glucagon in direct
response to dropping blood sugar levels. Low carbers have stable blood
sugar levels so that's not an option. The body releases glucagon in
indirect response to dietary fat. Calorie for calorie droppoing protein
in favor of fat increases the rate of ketosis because it increases the
release of glucagon.

Two tablespoons? That's a shot glass of oil. You drank that straight?
Good luck doing that on a regular basis. In my experience the body
builds up a gag reflex when fed straight oil in shots.
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