My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
Mom, I don't know!"
--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
they vary by county as well as by state.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

On 10/15/2011 2:09 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> they vary by county as well as by state.
>
There's no sales tax on food here.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.food.cooking.]
On 2011-10-15, James Silverton > wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take.

What do you mean, "seems"?

> I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother asked her to go
> and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl
> how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"

This has what to do with your first sentence? What's your point? Are
you saying Marin County CA is somehow impacting the quality of
eductation in MD?

What are you smoking this early in the day?

nb

In article >,
Howard Brazee > wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:
>
>>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>Mom, I don't know!"
>
>Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>they vary by county as well as by state.

Not to mention that some states don't charge sales tax for food;
and others charge depending on whether it's to be eaten on the
premises or taken away.

In her place, I would've thought Well, three bucks plus how much?
and said, "Give me a five, that should cover it no matter what
the Governor of Maryland extracts."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

On 10/15/2011 12:34 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a
_real_ faint."

On 15/10/2011 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>
> Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
> decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
> wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
> other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
> says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
> spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
> faint."



It could be worse. My wife told me about an incident in one of the high
schools in her district. A 50 something male teacher suddenly died
during the morning announcements, just sitting at his desk. A few years
ago I met his daughter. She was the mother of one the young girls in my
riding class.

James Silverton > wrote in
:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be
> being systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I
> live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old
> (estimated) daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother
> asked her to go and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her
> mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I
> don't know!"

I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The first
thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do arithmetic, but how
to _count_. Specifically, how to count money. Many, even most, don't
really need formal training as such. But many *do*.

Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though, when
I'd count change back the old fashioned way.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

I don't like the "new" curriculum either. Unfortunately inexperienced
teachers don't know any better and do as they're told. If she's in
Marin, the assumption probably is that parents will be proactive and
fill the gaps with Kumon or another after school program.


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On 10/15/11 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
> On 10/15/2011 12:34 PM, James Silverton wrote:
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
> decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
> wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
> other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
> says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
> spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
> faint."


Exactly. One of the things my dad had to contend with in his classes at
the Pharmacy college was people who would be able to handle numbers
perfectly, calculate things on tests like no tomorrow, and then when
confronted with actual drugs and such would have no idea what to do when
asked to make up some actual mixture. They had learned a skill in a
classroom and they somehow never had EVER understood that this skill
could be used outside the classroom.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On 10/15/11 3:36 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 15/10/2011 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>>
>> Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
>> decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
>> wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
>> other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
>> says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
>> spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
>> faint."
>
>
>
> It could be worse. My wife told me about an incident in one of the high
> schools in her district. A 50 something male teacher suddenly died
> during the morning announcements, just sitting at his desk. A few years
> ago I met his daughter. She was the mother of one the young girls in my
> riding class.


One of my best friends died at the age of (IIRC) 39, dropped dead of a
heart attack right in front of his 7-year-old daughter, no warning.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

Proves that for a female she's not too swift, most would say oh a $20
should cover it.

On Oct 15, 1:34*pm, James Silverton >
wrote:
> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

I saw some quote recently on facebook which said something like "We
hate math, say 4 in 10, a majority of Americans"

http://tinyurl.com/4ywhqw7

On 10/15/2011 2:09 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> they vary by county as well as by state.
>

Unfortunately lots of people don't care to learn or something for some
reason and depend on others way too much regarding their finances. Who
ever thought we would reach a time when if we ask "how much is that?" we
are asked to sit down so someone can enter info into a computer to
determine how much we can afford?

On Oct 15, 1:34*pm, James Silverton >
wrote:
> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"


A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.

notbob replied:

>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take.
>
> What do you mean, "seems"?
>
>> I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
>> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
>> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
>> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother asked her to go
>> and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl
>> how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"
>
> This has what to do with your first sentence? What's your point? Are
> you saying Marin County CA is somehow impacting the quality of
> eductation in MD?
>
> What are you smoking this early in the day?


He's not smoking. He's waging CLASS WARFARE. Haven't you been watching *any*
of the GOP presidential candidates?

Bob

In article >,
Kalmia > wrote:
>On Oct 15, 1:34*pm, James Silverton >
>wrote:
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
>
>A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
>book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
>bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.

I used to live in Concord, California, a place that combined the
worst traits of suburbia and Tobacco Road. I visited a couple of
other people's houses. The only book to be seen in most of them
was a Bible. (Hey, if it was the KJV, it would at least good
literature.) At least one had a half-dozen Readers' Digest
Condensed Books. /sigh

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article <e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
@f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
> On Oct 15, 1:34*pm, James Silverton >
> wrote:
> > My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> > systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> > Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> > in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> > front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> > of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> > $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> > Mom, I don't know!"
>
>
> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.

I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
doing it.

Kalmia > writes:

> On Oct 15, 1:34Â*pm, James Silverton >
> wrote:
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
>
> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.

Plot's a little weak, but geez, what a cast of characters....
(yeah, that joke is a lot older than I am, but still a good one)

In article cal>,
"J. Clarke" > wrote:

> In article <e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
> >
> > On Oct 15, 1:34*pm, James Silverton >
> > wrote:
> > > My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> > > systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> > > Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> > > in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> > > front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> > > of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> > > $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> > > Mom, I don't know!"
> >
> >
> > A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> > bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> > book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> > bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>
> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> doing it.

Just tell 'em your Ipod was broken!

:-)

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:22:47 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>
> I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
>I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
>understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.


A young man taking a GED course asked me to check his math paper. I
was astonished at the questions asked and problems given. They
offered multiple choice in many cases. On some problems, you chose
the formula from a multiple choice list, but did not have to actually
solve the problem. This is supposed to be high school level, but it
was math that we could do in fifth grade.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> James Silverton > wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
> I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
> understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.
> Ranee @ Arabian Knits

Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
right
"Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
gozentas. Polly

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 20:16:01 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer > wrote:
| Kalmia > writes:
|
|> On Oct 15, 1:34Â*pm, James Silverton >
|> wrote:
|>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
|>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
|>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
|>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
|>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
|>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
|>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
|>> Mom, I don't know!"
|>
|>
|> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
|> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
|> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
|> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
|
| Plot's a little weak, but geez, what a cast of characters....
| (yeah, that joke is a lot older than I am, but still a good one)


A few years back I was on a family holiday. My 3 year old (at the time)
niece walks into the room and sees a phone book on the table. She went
up to it, flipped through the pages, and announced loudly "Good Book!"
Everyone in the room laughed, so she did it again later.

Her taste in reading material has improved greatly since then.


--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:24:40 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> wrote:



>Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
>"Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>gozentas. Polly


Maybe they did. Some minds just don't grasp math well, no matter how
it is taught. I recall my daughter learning 3 + 4 = 7 but did not
grasp that 4 + 3 = 7 also.

People lacking math skills are often very strong with artistic skills
though.

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> James Silverton > wrote:
>>
>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>
>> I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
>> I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
>> understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.
>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>
> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> gozentas. Polly

Not just in UK then ...
--
http://www.shop.helpforheros.org.uk

In article >,
Joe Pfeiffer > wrote:

> Kalmia > writes:
>
> > On Oct 15, 1:34Â*pm, James Silverton >
> > wrote:
> >> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >> Mom, I don't know!"
> >
> >
> > A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> > bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> > book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> > bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>
> Plot's a little weak, but geez, what a cast of characters....
> (yeah, that joke is a lot older than I am, but still a good one)

And has the phone number of every single woman in town. (But not
anymore, with so many people only having cell phones.)

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
"Polly Esther" > wrote:

> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> gozentas. Polly

What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
math problems?

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
says...
>
> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > James Silverton > wrote:
> >
> >> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >> Mom, I don't know!"
> >
> > I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
> > I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
> > understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.
> > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>
> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> gozentas. Polly

Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
"how to push buttons on a calculator".

In article >,
Walter Bushell > wrote:
>In article >,
> "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>
>> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
>> right
>> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>> gozentas. Polly
>
>What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
>math problems?

How did web site monitoring software get into the discussion?

/googles, gets a dozen or so usages of "gozinta"

Oh, I see, your tongue is in your cheek. Try "goes into" as a
childish description of division.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

On 16/10/2011 9:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>> gozentas. Polly
>
> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
> "how to push buttons on a calculator".


I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.


I confess to having trouble with square roots. I had a lot of trouble
at university when I had to take statistics and probability because the
formulae for statistical analysis typically involved calculating a lot
of squares and square roots. At that time, a pocket calculator that
would add, subtract, multiply and divide was about $250, which was
several weeks pay. The next year the Pysch department had a calculator
room where they has a bunch of Wang calculators available for student
use. I used to get so bogged down in the mechanics of the arithmetic
that it was hard to understand the math. Using calculators made it
understandable.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 16/10/2011 9:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever
>>> was
>>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of
>>> math)
>>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>>> gozentas. Polly
>>
>> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
>> "how to push buttons on a calculator".
>
>
> I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an adding
> machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had the running
> total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not convinced that
> using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than the rote learning
> used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.
>
>
> I confess to having trouble with square roots. I had a lot of trouble at
> university when I had to take statistics and probability because the
> formulae for statistical analysis typically involved calculating a lot of
> squares and square roots. At that time, a pocket calculator that would
> add, subtract, multiply and divide was about $250, which was several weeks
> pay. The next year the Pysch department had a calculator room where they
> has a bunch of Wang calculators available for student use. I used to get
> so bogged down in the mechanics of the arithmetic that it was hard to
> understand the math. Using calculators made it understandable.

didn't you have a CRC book? or a slide rule?

In article >,
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article >,
> Walter Bushell > wrote:
> >In article >,
> > "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> >
> >> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> >> right
> >> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> >> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> >> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> >> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> >> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> >> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> >> gozentas. Polly
> >
> >What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
> >math problems?
>
> How did web site monitoring software get into the discussion?
>
> /googles, gets a dozen or so usages of "gozinta"
>
> Oh, I see, your tongue is in your cheek. Try "goes into" as a
> childish description of division.

Hey, someone who runs an internet business or even a blog might very
well be more familiar with the program. I don't remember "gozinta" from
my el-ed days, but they were many moons ago.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:
>On 16/10/2011 9:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>>> gozentas. Polly
>>
>> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
>> "how to push buttons on a calculator".
>
>
>I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
>adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
>the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
>convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
>the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.
>
>
>I confess to having trouble with square roots. I had a lot of trouble
>at university when I had to take statistics and probability because the
>formulae for statistical analysis typically involved calculating a lot
>of squares and square roots. At that time, a pocket calculator that
>would add, subtract, multiply and divide was about $250, which was
>several weeks pay. The next year the Pysch department had a calculator
>room where they has a bunch of Wang calculators available for student
>use. I used to get so bogged down in the mechanics of the arithmetic
>that it was hard to understand the math. Using calculators made it
>understandable.

Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other
subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).

Now I'm going to talk about my Physics final: if you've seen it
already, hit 'n' now.

The College of Letters and Sciences had these damn breadth
requirements. People majoring in what my husband the engineer
calls "fuzzy studies" still had to take a certain number of
science courses. I had already done a year of biology, but no,
they wanted a semester of physics too, and they had a course that
they called "Physics for Non-Majors" and everybody else called
"Bonehead Physics."

It chanced that another young woman living in the same rooming
house with me was taking the same section of B.P. that I was: the
same (boring) professor giving the lectures, the same (inept)
T.A. assigning and collecting homework. So my housemate and I
would sit in the kitchen every Wednesday night doing our
homework: she knew how to use a slide rule and I did not. (No
calculators in 1961). So we split the work: I'd set up the
equations, and she'd do the arithmetic and we'd both turn in the
same answers.

Midterm: fairly short and manageable. Then came the final: two
solid hours of sitting in a huge hall solving physics problems.
Without my housemate and her slide rule, I had to do the
arithmetic by sweat and scratch paper, and I knew I wouldn't be
able to get it all done. But I thought, This is a course in
physics, not arithmetic or even algebra. I'll set up all the
equations and then go back and solve as many as I have time for.

Came the final grades. I got an A; my housemate got a C.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
Pico Rico > wrote:
>
>"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
g.com...
>> On 16/10/2011 9:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever
>>>> was
>>>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>>>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of
>>>> math)
>>>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>>>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>>>> gozentas. Polly
>>>
>>> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
>>> "how to push buttons on a calculator".
>>
>>
>> I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an adding
>> machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had the running
>> total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not convinced that
>> using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than the rote learning
>> used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.
>>
>>
>> I confess to having trouble with square roots. I had a lot of trouble at
>> university when I had to take statistics and probability because the
>> formulae for statistical analysis typically involved calculating a lot of
>> squares and square roots. At that time, a pocket calculator that would
>> add, subtract, multiply and divide was about $250, which was several weeks
>> pay. The next year the Pysch department had a calculator room where they
>> has a bunch of Wang calculators available for student use. I used to get
>> so bogged down in the mechanics of the arithmetic that it was hard to
>> understand the math. Using calculators made it understandable.
>
>didn't you have a CRC book? or a slide rule?

Dave doesn't say what his major was, but I can think of a lot of
them that would require a statistics course without plunging deep
enough into the sciences that familiarity with either of those
things would be required.

Particularly considering that I once worked for a person whose life
work was collecting, tabulating, and laboriously publishing
volumes of the latest statistics on everybody else's research
into what caused cancer in rats, mice, and so on. She'd been
doing this for years. Finally somebody from CRC got in touch
with her and suggested she publish with them.

She had never heard of the Chemical Rubber Company and its many
and varied reference books. I took her up a floor to the
Biochemistry Library and showed her an entire aisle in the stacks
filled with CRC publications.

I quit working for her shortly after that, for she was a
carborundum-coated bitch. So I don't know if she wound up
publishing with CRC or not. Nor care.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

: (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other
: subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
: further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).

Well technically, algebra shouldn't have numbers either, or not very
many, and not the primary focus. I mean, even geometry has numbers
(ie, triangles have three sides, three is a number, etc etc) and algebra
should have few more than that.

On the other hand, the idea *is* (usually) to come up with a plan
for what arithmetic you want to do later, so I guess I can see it
as a stumbling block.

However... I too was noticeably poor at arithmetic as such, and found
it a horrible drudgery to boot, and so I thought of algebra as a form of
judo to use arithmetic against itself, and figure out how to to the least
amount of actual arithmetic possible. For just one illustrative example,
"cancelling numbers" in either fractions or equations.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:57:57 GMT, (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>Not to mention that some states don't charge sales tax for food;
>and others charge depending on whether it's to be eaten on the
>premises or taken away.

Or "is this to be used as mouthwash (a cosmetic), or gargle (a
medicine)".

>In her place, I would've thought Well, three bucks plus how much?
>and said, "Give me a five, that should cover it no matter what
>the Governor of Maryland extracts."

That's what I would do too.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

In article >,
Janet > wrote:
>In article >,
>says...
> I don't remember "gozinta" from
>> my el-ed days, but they were many moons ago.
>
> Elementary school division. 2 gozinta 9, 4 times, remainder 1.

I didn't experience it in my own school career, but I'd read
jokes about it. "What did you learn in school today, Johnny?"
"We did gozintas." "WHAT?" et cetera....



--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:08:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:



>
>I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
>adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
>the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
>convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
>the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.

Using a machine will give you an accurate number with minimal effort.
The problem though, is that you do not always have access to the
calculator. If you cannot do even simple math without one, you are
pretty much screwed.

You are also vulnerable to others cheating you. If you just agreed to
$20 to cut the lawn, $6 to take out the trash and $13 to trim the
hedges, if you can't do simple math you may not realized you got
cheated when the handyman asked for $62.

On 16/10/2011 12:40 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:08:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
>> adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
>> the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
>> convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
>> the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.
>
> Using a machine will give you an accurate number with minimal effort.
> The problem though, is that you do not always have access to the
> calculator. If you cannot do even simple math without one, you are
> pretty much screwed.

I didn't say that it should be taught in lieu of traditional adding. It
was my experience that when I was using an adding machine I was adding
the numbers on my head and checking my results against the machine.
Between that and playing cribbage, I got really fast at adding. It only
works for 2 or 3 columns. Get into the hundreds and thousands, or a
bunch of decimals and I need to work it out.






> You are also vulnerable to others cheating you. If you just agreed to
> $20 to cut the lawn, $6 to take out the trash and $13 to trim the
> hedges, if you can't do simple math you may not realized you got
> cheated when the handyman asked for $62.

I'm not. If I buy something in a store and the clerk rings up the total
and hand him /her money, I know before they punch it in how much change
I am owed. FWIW... I like to use up my pocket change rather than get a
bunch more. I will hand over a bunch of coins in order to get less coins
back.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:07:57 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:



>
>I didn't say that it should be taught in lieu of traditional adding. It
>was my experience that when I was using an adding machine I was adding
>the numbers on my head and checking my results against the machine.
>Between that and playing cribbage, I got really fast at adding. It only
>works for 2 or 3 columns. Get into the hundreds and thousands, or a
>bunch of decimals and I need to work it out.
>
>

You didn't say it, but it seems to be one of the methods used more and
more, to rely on a calculator rather than the brain. Playing
cribbage is one reason the brain is better than a machine. Things
like that keep you sharper, as you have experienced. I don't know
that future generations will have that skill so much.