I once made myself a comfortable keyboard desk by stacking Reader's
Digest Condensed Books.

Beat typing with the laptop on an eating table.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:54:39 -0600, Howard Brazee >
wrote:

> But I do note that in one example where the tax *is* included does
> this type of pricing - gasoline.

And rumor has it that it's illegal for the gas station to tell you how
much of the price is tax.

If so, it's probably a New York State law.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

"Joy Beeson" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:54:39 -0600, Howard Brazee >
> wrote:
>
>> But I do note that in one example where the tax *is* included does
>> this type of pricing - gasoline.
>
> And rumor has it that it's illegal for the gas station to tell you how
> much of the price is tax.
>
> If so, it's probably a New York State law.
>


I've seen a breakdown in taxes posted on gas pumps in California, but that
way long ago - before they changed minute to minute.

In article >,
Howard Brazee > wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:02:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
> > wrote:
>
> >Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in the USA,
> >they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the store any extra to
> >give the real price.
>
> The "real price" can vary, as sales tax is calculated on the total
> purchase, not on each individual, and there are rounding differences.

In my experience, that's true 99.99% of the time. But that's because
the seller wants to make their prices look cheaper. At least here in
California, the BOE is perfectly happy to have a business calculate
sales tax on each item, and post the price with tax included:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqpurch.htm

"You post a sign on your premises stating that sales tax reimbursement
will be added to all prices of taxable merchandise, or make a similar
statement on price tags, advertising material, and other printed
material directed to the purchaser"

I've seen a very few businesses here in California do this. There was a
local Mexican restaurant that not only included tax in their prices, but
made every price a multiple of US$.25.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dorothy J Heydt" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> notbob > wrote:
>>On 2011-10-18, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. Colorado?
>>
>>Yep. Late of Livermore.
>
> Quite a move. Hope you're doing ok; I went to a con in Denver
> once (a mere mile high) and by the end of the con I was just this
> side of collapse. I couldn't do anything much but sit or lie
> around and gasp till our train got down out of the Sierras into
> the Valley. May that disability be far from you.


try Lake Titicaca!

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 23:35:52 GMT, David Goldfarb
> wrote in
> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.food.cooking:

> In article >,
> Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:

>>In article >,
>>David Goldfarb > wrote:

>>> I learned how to subtract numbers from a multiple of 10
>>> without conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00 is
>>> 7.63 -- don't need to actually do the sum in my head,
>>> it just pops in there. This is a skill that has stayed
>>> with me.

>> That's handy. Do you ever get to use it nowadays?

> Oh, all the time. When I pay for something with cash,
> I'll work out what the change will be, then add loose
> change and dollar bills so as to consolidate what I'll
> have in my pockets. For example, if I'm buying myself a
> pizza that costs $7.87, I'll figure that the change from
> a 10 is $2.13, and if possible I'll pay $13.12 so that I
> can get back $5.25.

> (That one particular case led to one of those moments I
> have normally only read about, where the high-school-age
> kid behind the register looked at me and said "How did
> you do that?")

That's not so bad; several times I've had to insist to
clerks -- some of them not all that young, either -- that I
had *not* made a mistake, and that they should just go ahead
and ring up the purchase.

Brian

On Oct 17, 10:04*am, (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article >,
>
> Bryan > wrote:
> >On Oct 16, 11:36*pm, (David DeLaney) wrote:
> >> "and then Hillary will be positioned for 2016, and Bill's Magic Rainbow
> >> *Field will come back into play and the economy will finally get
> >better" DeLaney
>
> >"Bill's Magic Rainbow *Field" reminded me of when he played Not My Job
> >and answered all three questions correctly. *The topic was the TV
> >show, My Little Pony.
> >http://www.npr.org/2011/06/25/137386...ays-not-my-job
>
> Well, he has a daughter, now adult, who may have gone through MLP
> madness at the appropriate age.

If he paid enough attention to those details of Chesea's life to know
that kind of stuff, that's pretty impressive, but I think it's more
likely that he is just really smart and intuitive. If it weren't for
the 22nd Amendment, I think he'd have served a third term.
>
> --
> Dorothy J. Heydt

--Bryan

On 10/17/11 9:18 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 17/10/11 1:10 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In omain.local>,
>> J. > wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
>>>>> @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>>>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>>>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best
>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>>>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a
>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>>>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she
>>>>>>> wanted: "Aw,
>>>>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>>>>>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
>>>>>> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
>>>>>> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me
>>>>> why I'm
>>>>> doing it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
>>>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
>>>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
>>>
>>> Why do they think you have them if not to read?
>>
>> They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
>> imagine you reading them.
>>
>
> Precisely. In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
> at all. I suspect commercial television has created a population of
> people who can't concentrate on anything for more than about 7 minutes
> at a time.
>

That's ridiculous. I can concentrate on things for -- oooh, SHINY!

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On 10/17/11 10:24 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:17:46 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>> Personally I'd rather roll my wheelchair in front of a train than live
>> in an old-folks' home.
>
> Don't. It's a horrible, horrible thing to do to the engine crew.
>

And people insist on committing suicide-by-train rather more often than
one might think. In addition to the people who THINK they're going to
get away with it when they evade the four-way gates and drive over the
tracks...

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:13:31 -0600, Howard Brazee >
wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:02:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
> wrote:
>
>>Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in the USA,
>>they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the store any extra to
>>give the real price.
>
>The "real price" can vary, as sales tax is calculated on the total
>purchase, not on each individual, and there are rounding differences.

Not to mention purchases by tax exempt organizations.

Putting the sales tax on the price sticker would be part of the
dumbing down we have been in. Not needed, just plain silly.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:54:39 -0600, Howard Brazee >
wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:13:55 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>>No more of
>>this $99.99 crap that leads you to think that it is under the magic
>>number of $100, but then you end up paying more than that because they
>>add the tax on later.
>
>It doesn't lead *me* to think that it is under any magic number of
>$100.

I found in Italy, most of the prices were to at least the nearest
dime. People end to give exact change more often too. Some
shopkeepers rounded down to avoid small change.

We had lunch at a restaurant. The bill was 51 Euro. I put a 50 and a
10 in the book and waited for my change. He just brought the 10 back
rather than make 9 Euro in change. The service change was already
included so he was not worried about a tip. I usually leave a modest
tip if the service is good though.

In article >,
Pico Rico > wrote:
>
>"Dorothy J Heydt" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> notbob > wrote:
>>>On 2011-10-18, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow. Colorado?
>>>
>>>Yep. Late of Livermore.
>>
>> Quite a move. Hope you're doing ok; I went to a con in Denver
>> once (a mere mile high) and by the end of the con I was just this
>> side of collapse. I couldn't do anything much but sit or lie
>> around and gasp till our train got down out of the Sierras into
>> the Valley. May that disability be far from you.
>
>try Lake Titicaca!
>
No Thank You. Nor Macchu Picchu. Nor Nepal. Nor even Denver
again. I know my limitations, which have gotten more limited
since then (about thirty years ago).

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
Joy Beeson > wrote:
>
>I once made myself a comfortable keyboard desk by stacking Reader's
>Digest Condensed Books.
>
>Beat typing with the laptop on an eating table.
>

Oh gosh yes. See? There's a use for everything. Even flies, if
you have a pet chameleon.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

Robert Bannister > wrote in
:

> On 18/10/11 6:45 AM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> Jesper > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> On 2011-10-17, Howard > wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes,
>>>>>> especially if they vary by county as well as by state.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the price after tax
>>>>> on the label?
>>>>
>>>> I can see one big downside to this and other smaller
>>>> downsides.
>>>>
>>>> The big downside is I like us to know what we are paying in
>>>> taxes.
>>>
>>> I like knowing what this purchase is going to cost me, a lot
>>> more. If I want to know about taxes, I can just look at the
>>> receipt. Win-win.
>>>
>>> And it seems to me, if you need the pre-tax price to figure
>>> out what you're paying in taxes, then you don't know what
>>> you'll end paying at checkout.
>>>
>>>> And go buy a book with a price printed on its cover. Do we
>>>> want a different printing for each tax district?
>>>
>>> That's what price tags are for.
>>
>> Be sure to add on the cost of labor to affix it.
>>
>
> Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in
> the USA, they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the
> store any extra to give the real price.
>
It would for my employer, since we have several different tax
rates. And, BTW, if a mistake it made, it's a big deal. If it's
made by more than $1.00, in California, it's a felony. So, no,
we're not going to be very enthusiastic about making it more
complicated.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. -
David Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Howard Brazee > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:02:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
> > wrote:
>
>>Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in
>>the USA, they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the
>>store any extra to give the real price.
>
> The "real price" can vary, as sales tax is calculated on the
> total purchase, not on each individual, and there are rounding
> differences.
>
Not by more than a penny per item, and generally not by more than a
penny on the entire purchase.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Dan Abel > wrote in

:

> In article >,
> Howard Brazee > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:02:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in
>> >the USA, they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the
>> >store any extra to give the real price.
>>
>> The "real price" can vary, as sales tax is calculated on the
>> total purchase, not on each individual, and there are rounding
>> differences.
>
> In my experience, that's true 99.99% of the time. But that's
> because the seller wants to make their prices look cheaper. At
> least here in California, the BOE is perfectly happy to have a
> business calculate sales tax on each item, and post the price
> with tax included:
>
> http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqpurch.htm

The BOE in California doesn't give a shit if you collect sales tax
at all. Only that you pay it to _them_.
>
> "You post a sign on your premises stating that sales tax
> reimbursement will be added to all prices of taxable
> merchandise, or make a similar statement on price tags,
> advertising material, and other printed material directed to the
> purchaser"
>
> I've seen a very few businesses here in California do this.
> There was a local Mexican restaurant that not only included tax
> in their prices, but made every price a multiple of US$.25.
>
But it's not the way things are usually done in US retail outlets,
and generally speaking, doing so would confuse the hell out of
everyone.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. -
David Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Goomba > wrote in
:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>
>> I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>> first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>> arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>> money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>> such. But many *do*.
>>
>> Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though,
>> when I'd count change back the old fashioned way.
>>
> As God is my witness, I'd make a point of shopoing at a place
> that required cashiers to count back the change the "old
> fashioned way" !!

We have a pretty loyal customer base.

> I HATE the way the cashierbots just let the
> machine tell them what to give and then they plop it all into my
> hand in the most annoying clumsy way. It takes me a few seconds
> to separate the receipt from the wad-o'cash and put the bills
> and coins into my wallet all the while they're already moving on
> to the next customer. Tres annoying!
>
One less obvious advantage to counting back change properly is that
the coins end up _under_ the bills in your hand, rather than on top.
Makes it a hell of a lot less likely you'll drop stuff that way,
fumbling to get it all put away.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Robert Bannister > wrote in
:

> On 18/10/11 8:09 AM, Goomba wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>
>>> I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>> first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>> arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>> money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>> such. But many *do*.
>>>
>>> Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though,
>>> when I'd count change back the old fashioned way.
>>>
>> As God is my witness, I'd make a point of shopoing at a place
>> that required cashiers to count back the change the "old
>> fashioned way" !! I HATE the way the cashierbots just let the
>> machine tell them what to give and then they plop it all into
>> my hand in the most annoying clumsy way. It takes me a few
>> seconds to separate the receipt from the wad-o'cash and put the
>> bills and coins into my wallet all the while they're already
>> moving on to the next customer. Tres annoying!
>
> I'll certainly agree with about the difficulty in dealing with a
> pile of change, notes on the bottom, coins on top of that and
> receipt as a crown, while you're trying to open your wallet and
> pick up your bags and get out the way of the next customer.
>
> If they could only give me the coins first, so I could slip them
> into my pocket before I wrestle the notes into my wallet...
>
Comment on it to a) the cashier, and b) their manager, if
convenient. They have no clue until someone tells them.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. -
David Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

In article >,
Michael Siemon > wrote:
>In article >,
> (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article ocal>,
>> J. Clarke > wrote:
>> >In article >, says...
>> >>
>> >> In article >,
>> >> Walter Bushell > wrote:
>> >> >In article >,
>> >> > (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> God forbid that I should ever be dumped into a cage with a lot of
>> >> >> other people with whom I have NOTHING in common except that we're
>> >> >> all old.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Fortunately, we can't afford it.
>> >> >
>> >> >Then you get dumped into a box of the same type that is publicly funded.
>> >> >If such exists, otherwise you just die for lack of care.
>> >>
>> >> That might be preferable to living in an age-segregated warren.
>> >>
>> >> At present we're living with our daughter and son-in-law ('cause
>> >> we're broke). That could continue for a while.
>> >
>> >Personally I'd rather roll my wheelchair in front of a train than live
>> >in an old-folks' home.
>>
>> I've actually been in one, sort of. About fifteen years ago I
>> had a bout of pancreatitis, and after two weeks in the hospital I
>> was sent for another two weeks in a nursing home till they
>> decided it was safe to take me off the IV (actually a PICC line).
>> Half the facility catered mostly to middle-aged people recovering
>> from broken hip or similar heavy-duty surgery. The other half
>> was full of old people who mostly ... weren't there any more.
>> They'd sit in bed staring blankly at television or in wheelchairs
>> in the hall staring at nothing. It was sad. I do hope my heart
>> or lungs or something goes before my brain does.
>>
>> And mind you, that was a *very good* nursing home. I was happy
>> there, because I had a double room to myself (most patients didn't
>> care for the street noise) and I had my computer. Everything was
>> very clean and the old people were scrupulously cared for. But
>> there was no there there.
>
>Dorothy,
> A point to think about on this. I watched my mother's last couple of
>years with her in a nursing home (middling good to perhaps a bit better).
>Much of the time it seemed, indeed, that there was "no there there" --
>but sometimes the fog of medications (and age-related degenerations)
>lifted enough for me to KNOW that the THERE was more than enough THERE
>to be increasingly hopeless. My brother (and sister-in-law), with what
>distant support I could give made several hard decisions about surgical
>treatments, and meds, to make her end easier. In many ways, I know, she
>would probably have wanted to have been cut off earlier - we discussed
>this a fair amount after my father's long suffering from a major stroke,
>and her watching _her_ mother go through all of this a generation
>earlier.
> I don't much want to be warehoused, no matter how good the warehouse.
>But it is hard to know when to let go... One gets to the point that
>suicide is very attractive -- but almost impossible to execute.
> It certainly makes the prospect of a nursing home less attractive to
>consider the fellow residents. But I have no younger generation relatives
>I could even remotely consider being fobbed off on -- and I have seen the
>agonies my brother and s-i-l dealt with in keeping my mother in her home
>for as long as they did. I'll presumably be sufficiently far gone that
>the unattractiveness of my room-mate and other residents will be a very
>minor part of my agony.

I see your point. If your mind is gone you neither know nor care
what's happening to your body.

Myself, I dread the thought of being a mindless hulk that has to
be fed and cleaned and turned and monitored day after day after
day a lot more than I dread death.

You might be interested in a recent book, _Making Rounds With
Oscar_, by David Dosa, M.D. He's a gerontologist working in an
exceptionally good senile dementia ward. Oscar, on the other
hand, is a cat, who for the last several years has repeatedly
demonstrated that he can tell when one of the old patients is
about to die: reliably enough that the staff know that when Oscar
moves in, it's time to call in the family to say goodbye.

I bought the book because I was interested in Oscar, but in fact
most of the book is about the old people who are slowly slipping
away, and how varied the choices that their families must make.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 17/10/11 1:10 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In omain.local>,
> > J. > wrote:
> >> In >,
> >> says...
> >>>
> >>> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>> In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> >>>> @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >>>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >>>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >>>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >>>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >>>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >>>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >>>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >>>>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> >>>>> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> >>>>> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> >>>> doing it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> >>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> >>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
> >>
> >> Why do they think you have them if not to read?
> >
> > They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
> > imagine you reading them.
> >
>
> Precisely. In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
> at all. I suspect commercial television has created a population of
> people who can't concentrate on anything for more than about 7 minutes
> at a time.

There's a discussion board for "John Carter", the new Disney movie, over
on IMDB. It amazes me how many of the participants admit that they have
seen huge numbers of movies but never read a book.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 10/17/11 9:18 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> > On 17/10/11 1:10 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In omain.local>,
> >> J. > wrote:
> >>> In >,
> >>> says...
> >>>>
> >>>> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>>> In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> >>>>> @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >>>>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >>>>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best
> >>>>>>> schools
> >>>>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >>>>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a
> >>>>>>> couple
> >>>>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >>>>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she
> >>>>>>> wanted: "Aw,
> >>>>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >>>>>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> >>>>>> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> >>>>>> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me
> >>>>> why I'm
> >>>>> doing it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> >>>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> >>>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
> >>>
> >>> Why do they think you have them if not to read?
> >>
> >> They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
> >> imagine you reading them.
> >>
> >
> > Precisely. In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
> > at all. I suspect commercial television has created a population of
> > people who can't concentrate on anything for more than about 7 minutes
> > at a time.
> >
>
> That's ridiculous. I can concentrate on things for -- oooh, SHINY!

Hey, I've got ADHD, diagnosed officially and I've been on meds for it
until they stopped working. I've never had any trouble reading a novel.
I don't always remember much of it until the third or fourth time
through though.

On 2011-10-18, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:

> around and gasp till our train got down out of the Sierras into
> the Valley. May that disability be far from you.

Ah! ....another rail fan. Good for you. I love the Zypher and ride
it every chance I get. As for my current altitude, never seemed to
bother me. Musta been all them years I spent high in the Sierras as a
kid.

nb

On 18/10/11 9:13 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:02:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
> > wrote:
>
>> Surely all the items have price tags anyway. It's just that in the USA,
>> they give the pre-tax price. It would not cost the store any extra to
>> give the real price.
>
> The "real price" can vary, as sales tax is calculated on the total
> purchase, not on each individual, and there are rounding differences.
>

There's good and bad in everything. I suppose you gain on the roundabouts.

--
Robert Bannister

On 18/10/11 11:37 AM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Robert > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 18/10/11 8:09 AM, Goomba wrote:
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>>> first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>>> arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>>> money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>>> such. But many *do*.
>>>>
>>>> Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though,
>>>> when I'd count change back the old fashioned way.
>>>>
>>> As God is my witness, I'd make a point of shopoing at a place
>>> that required cashiers to count back the change the "old
>>> fashioned way" !! I HATE the way the cashierbots just let the
>>> machine tell them what to give and then they plop it all into
>>> my hand in the most annoying clumsy way. It takes me a few
>>> seconds to separate the receipt from the wad-o'cash and put the
>>> bills and coins into my wallet all the while they're already
>>> moving on to the next customer. Tres annoying!
>>
>> I'll certainly agree with about the difficulty in dealing with a
>> pile of change, notes on the bottom, coins on top of that and
>> receipt as a crown, while you're trying to open your wallet and
>> pick up your bags and get out the way of the next customer.
>>
>> If they could only give me the coins first, so I could slip them
>> into my pocket before I wrestle the notes into my wallet...
>>
> Comment on it to a) the cashier, and b) their manager, if
> convenient. They have no clue until someone tells them.
>

I think they have been trained to do it that way. It's quicker for them.

--
Robert Bannister

On 18/10/11 11:36 AM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> > wrote in
> :
>
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>
>>> I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>> first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>> arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>> money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>> such. But many *do*.
>>>
>>> Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though,
>>> when I'd count change back the old fashioned way.
>>>
>> As God is my witness, I'd make a point of shopoing at a place
>> that required cashiers to count back the change the "old
>> fashioned way" !!
>
> We have a pretty loyal customer base.
>
>> I HATE the way the cashierbots just let the
>> machine tell them what to give and then they plop it all into my
>> hand in the most annoying clumsy way. It takes me a few seconds
>> to separate the receipt from the wad-o'cash and put the bills
>> and coins into my wallet all the while they're already moving on
>> to the next customer. Tres annoying!
>>
> One less obvious advantage to counting back change properly is that
> the coins end up _under_ the bills in your hand, rather than on top.
> Makes it a hell of a lot less likely you'll drop stuff that way,
> fumbling to get it all put away.
>

Yes, I had almost forgotten that - it's been so long since anyone
counted the change back to me properly.

Addition to all the other anecdotes: back when we still had corner
shops, there was a power cut and the tills weren't working, so the
teenage girl behind the counter was using a calculator. Nothing wrong
with that, but I was somewhat aghast when she used it to work out 50c
from $1.
[Ah for the days when you could buy something useful for 50c!]

--
Robert Bannister

On 18/10/11 9:17 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In >, says...
>>
>> In >,
>> Walter > wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>> God forbid that I should ever be dumped into a cage with a lot of
>>>> other people with whom I have NOTHING in common except that we're
>>>> all old.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, we can't afford it.
>>>
>>> Then you get dumped into a box of the same type that is publicly funded.
>>> If such exists, otherwise you just die for lack of care.
>>
>> That might be preferable to living in an age-segregated warren.
>>
>> At present we're living with our daughter and son-in-law ('cause
>> we're broke). That could continue for a while.
>
> Personally I'd rather roll my wheelchair in front of a train than live
> in an old-folks' home.

It's not all that brilliant visiting one every day as I do. The only
consolation if I ever manage to end up in one is that I will be
surrounded by women.

--
Robert Bannister

Robert Bannister > wrote:

>In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
>at all.

So? I can't imagine fishing for pleasure. Or playing soccer for
pleasure. Different strokes and all that.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

In article >,
notbob > wrote:
>On 2011-10-18, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:
>
>> around and gasp till our train got down out of the Sierras into
>> the Valley. May that disability be far from you.
>
>Ah! ....another rail fan. Good for you. I love the Zypher and ride
>it every chance I get.

Actually, it's my brother-in-law (to be exact, sister-in-law's
husband) who's the rail fan. His family were living near
us at the time (they later moved to Oregon and then to
Massachusetts) and he insisted we should *all* go by train.

So we had a "family car" with two small children and ourselves.
Sister-in-law and her husband and kids had another one.

The view was beautiful, going over the Sierras and up into the
Rockies. The train was not very comfortable. There really was
not enough room, and I don't know what Amtrak's idea of "family
space" was, but it wasn't mine.

Hal's always talked about how pretty it is to take that route in
the winter, with all the snow and stuff, but I don't know if I
could survive at that altitude these days.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article ocal>,
> J. Clarke > wrote:
> >In article >,
> >says...
> >>
> >> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> > In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> >> > @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
> >> >>
> >> >> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >> >>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >> >>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best
> >> >>> schools
> >> >>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >> >>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a
> >> >>> couple
> >> >>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >> >>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted:
> >> >>> "Aw,
> >> >>> Mom, I don't know!"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >> >> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> >> >> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> >> >> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
> >> >
> >> > I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> >> > doing it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> >> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> >> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
> >
> >Why do they think you have them if not to read?
>
> They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
> imagine you reading them.

They probably can't read that fast either and can't imagine
somebody even having the time (after work and sleep) to read them.

--
Robert Woodward >
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> In article ocal>,
> says...
>
>
>> > Precisely. In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
>> > at all.
>
> Cast your mind back to infancy when every unfamiliar word had to be
> sounded out and puzzled over. Many adults never progressed beyond that to
> the level of literacy where words are recognised effortlessly, and written
> information is easily comprehended.For them, reading can never be a
> pleasure, it's a struggle and a puzzle in which they are constantly
> reminded of childhood inadequacy and failure.
>
> The amazing (and scary) thing is how many subliterate people develop
> strategies which enable them to hold down a successful job while
> completely concealing the fact they can barely read.

I used to read for pleasure. But then I got that over 40 eye thing and now
my eyes don't focus well on things close up. That coupled with ever
increasing nearsightedness means reading is no longer a pleasure.

Yes, I do still read magazines. And occasionally books. But not to the
extent that I used to.

I seem to be able to see the computer just fine, with glasses or without.
And I do use that for a lot of things that I used to use books for. For
instance it is far quicker for me to find a recipe online than to try to
remember which cookbook it was in. For that reason alone there is far less
need for books in my life. In fact I got rid of most all of the books I
owned. They were just taking up space.

I also can't fathom reading most books more than once. I also can't stand
seeing a movie or even a TV show more than once. Yes, there are a few
exceptions. I do know people who will watch the same re-runs of shows over
and over and over again. And have to watch the same movie every time it
comes on TV or will even buy the movie to watch it when they want to.
That's one thing I will never do. Buy a movie. Not for myself anyway. And
I have been given some as gifts. When that happens I have to think that the
gift giver doesn't know me very well at all.

My daughter is 13 and she can read very well. Has been able to for years.
But she just doesn't enjoy it. A lot of people don't seem to understand
this. I guess they think since they enjoy it, others should too.

On 17/10/11 16:14, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> I have no idea what English cookery is like now; the one time I
> was in England everything I found was either pizza or tandoori.

Apparently the nation's favourite dish is now tandoori chicken masala.
Which is an authentic British invention.


--
Bernard Peek

On 10/18/11 5:11 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> In omain.local>,
>> says...
>>
>>
>>>> Precisely. In fact, I don't think they can imagine reading for pleasure
>>>> at all.
>>
>> Cast your mind back to infancy when every unfamiliar word had to be
>> sounded out and puzzled over. Many adults never progressed beyond that to
>> the level of literacy where words are recognised effortlessly, and written
>> information is easily comprehended.For them, reading can never be a
>> pleasure, it's a struggle and a puzzle in which they are constantly
>> reminded of childhood inadequacy and failure.
>>
>> The amazing (and scary) thing is how many subliterate people develop
>> strategies which enable them to hold down a successful job while
>> completely concealing the fact they can barely read.
>
> I used to read for pleasure. But then I got that over 40 eye thing and now
> my eyes don't focus well on things close up. That coupled with ever
> increasing nearsightedness means reading is no longer a pleasure.

There are glasses for both of those. I have extreme nearsightedness, I
now have presbyopia. I had new glasses made for close-up work and it's
eliminated that straining, headachy feeling.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

In article
>,
Michael Siemon > wrote:

> I don't much want to be warehoused, no matter how good the warehouse.
> But it is hard to know when to let go... One gets to the point that
> suicide is very attractive -- but almost impossible to execute.

You have to execute the suicide when you still have quality of life
left, which is the real bugger.

I have a friend who had a stroke at age 53 and is has left the use of
his right arms and legs and hence is confined to a wheelchair. He seems
to be regaining his mental facilities slowly. But for him to go down to
dinner he has to pass through the halls and see the people in states of
decrepitude some moaning and speaking incoherently.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

On 18/10/2011 12:28 AM, Robert Bannister wrote:

>
> It's not all that brilliant visiting one every day as I do. The only
> consolation if I ever manage to end up in one is that I will be
> surrounded by women.
>

When my father died I took over the Power of Attorney for his sister.
who had Alzheimer's and had had several strokes. I used to have to
drive more than two hours each way to visit her once or twice a month,
which was not terribly rewarding because she seemed to have no idea who
I was and was non communicative.

On on of our first visits I went to the public washroom by the lobby
before leaving. My wife asked me if it was clean. I told her
"Ironically, it seems to be the only room here that doesn't smell of urine."

On 10/17/2011 7:36 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2011-10-18, Jaimie > wrote:
>
>> Bleah. Maybe in the 50s and early 60s, but the stigma lingers a lot
>> longer than the stench of over-boiled cabbage.
>
> Which is unfortunate.
>
> I LOVE steamed cabbage. I've eaten it the last 2 nights. For a
> single serving, I quarter a whole cabbage, remove the core and cross
> cut one quarter into 3-4 smaller sections. I steam the qtr for
> exactly 11 mins, add salt n' pepper, and enjoy. Mustard and
> horseradish are also nice additions, but unnecessary. Very sweet and
> flavorful, all by itself.
>
> nb

You forgot the butter..... or if you live South of the Mason Dixon line,
a dab of bacon grease.

George L

In article >,
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" > wrote:

> And people insist on committing suicide-by-train rather more often than
> one might think. In addition to the people who THINK they're going to
> get away with it when they evade the four-way gates and drive over the
> tracks...

Especially when the truck is loaded with steel ingots, that way you can
cause major mayhem, particularly if you manage to get hit by a passenger
train.


Or simply cross the tracks on foot. While taking the train to attend my
father's funeral three boys tried to cross the tracks and two of them
made it. It was one of those (by American standards) high speed trains
where it comes over the curve of the Earth faster than you can see it.

I got the information from the train crew after I walked to the end of
the train and was told that some of them had to hold the mother off the
corpse and the engineer would be given a day or so off.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article >,
> notbob > wrote:
> >On 2011-10-18, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:
> >
> >> Wow. Colorado?
> >
> >Yep. Late of Livermore.
>
> Quite a move. Hope you're doing ok; I went to a con in Denver
> once (a mere mile high) and by the end of the con I was just this
> side of collapse. I couldn't do anything much but sit or lie
> around and gasp till our train got down out of the Sierras into
> the Valley. May that disability be far from you.

Most people acclimate after a time.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

On 18/10/11 13:05, Walter Bushell wrote:

>
> I got the information from the train crew after I walked to the end of
> the train and was told that some of them had to hold the mother off the
> corpse and the engineer would be given a day or so off.

In the UK a driver who hits someone doesn't go back to work until they
have had a full medical. Friend of mine found out that he had muscular
dystrophy that way.


--
Bernard Peek

In article >,
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article >,
> Joy Beeson > wrote:
> >
> >I once made myself a comfortable keyboard desk by stacking Reader's
> >Digest Condensed Books.
> >
> >Beat typing with the laptop on an eating table.
> >
>
> Oh gosh yes. See? There's a use for everything. Even flies, if
> you have a pet chameleon.

I went with a friend to a pet store where she bought cockroaches. She
got them to fed her pet tarantula.

Yes, you can even buy cockroaches.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
Robert Bannister > wrote:

> [Ah for the days when you could buy something useful for 50c!]

Just a few years ago, I bought a (rubber) washer for 25 cents. Hmm,
there is no cent sign on this keyboard, but it does have separate one
and zero keys.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken