In article >,
"Pico Rico" > wrote:

> "Dorothy J Heydt" > wrote in message
> ...

> > The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
> > temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
> > Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
> > it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
> > percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
> > vote for it.
>
> that is a ten YEAR increase of one percent in the city sales tax. Not even
> Vallejo would be so stupid as to try for a ten percent city sales tax rate.

Yup:

http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/...1=981&Frame=L1

"If Measure B passes, the sales tax rate would increase by 1.0% (from
7.375% to 8.375%) for a period of 10 years. This represents a one cent
increase for every dollar spent on a taxable item."

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Pico Rico > wrote:
>
>"Dorothy J Heydt" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Robert Bannister > wrote:
>>>On 17/10/11 7:03 AM, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>>>> On 2011-10-15, Howard > wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best
>>>>>> schools
>>>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted:
>>>>>> "Aw,
>>>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>>>>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
>>>> label?
>>>
>>>They do in countries where the tax is same in every state, although if
>>>our illustrious state leaders have their way, things could easily change.
>>
>> The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
>> temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
>> Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
>> it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
>> percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
>> vote for it.
>
>that is a ten YEAR increase of one percent in the city sales tax. Not even
>Vallejo would be so stupid as to try for a ten percent city sales tax rate.

I sit corrected. Numbers, as all here know, are not my forte.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
djinn > wrote:
>On Oct 16, 3:36*am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> On 15/10/2011 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
>> > decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
>> > wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
>> > other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
>> > says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
>> > spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
>> > faint."
>>
>> It could be worse. My wife told me about an incident in one of the high
>> schools in her district. A 50 something male teacher suddenly died
>> during the morning announcements, just sitting at his desk. A few years
>> ago I met his daughter. She was the mother of one the young girls in my
>> riding class.
>
>Or better. A friend was one of a class of nurses who had a visiting
>professor. The professor starting showing some physical distress, they
>had him down with an ambulance rolling within a couple of minutes, and
>under treatment for his heart attack within a half hour or so. No
>lasting aftereffects.

Hooray, some good news for a change.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> > @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
> >>
> >> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
> >> wrote:
> >>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >>> Mom, I don't know!"
> >>
> >>
> >> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> >> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> >> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
> >
> > I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> > doing it.
> >
> >
>
> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> most of them more than once is quite depressing.

Why do they think you have them if not to read?

"Howard Brazee" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 01:25:54 GMT, (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
>>temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
>>Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
>>it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
>>percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
>>vote for it.
>
> A lot of communities are raising the sin taxes - tax alcohol. They
> are easy to pass, but make them more dependent upon sin.


that is part of the "tax everybody but me" thinking.

Bryan > wrote:
>Cain could probably win Iowa, Romney will win NH, then it's
>on to SC, where the GOP voters are going to have to choose between a
>Black and a Mormon.

Forgive me for sitting here and snickering at this example of schadenfreude.
Oh, forgive me, do!

>The most likely outcome is the GOP picks up a few Senate seats, and
>loses several House seats, and that Obama is re-elected. Capitalism
>is running amok, and the finance sector has shown itself to be
>villainous. The Tea Party is pro-greed, and the Occupy Wall Street
>(99% movement) is anti-greed.

Dave "and then Hillary will be positioned for 2016, and Bill's Magic Rainbow
Field will come back into play and the economy will finally get better" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Robert Bannister > wrote:
>On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
>> doing it.
>
>People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
>them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
>most of them more than once is quite depressing.

....People who see my book shelves, stacks, and boxes tend to go straight past
that into speechlessness, and/or "ignore it and maybe it won't attack me"
mode.

(Still keeping track of my reading on my blog; posts much less than daily, but
frequently enough that the stack of recently-read books doesn't fall over.
dbdatvic at livejournal. Warning: boring. But it saves you-all from too-long
'what i read this month' posts from me. Make no mistake, I enjoy them from
other people...)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

In article ocal>,
J. Clarke > wrote:
>In article >,
>says...
>>
>> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
>> > @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, says...
>> >>
>> >> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> >>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> >>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> >>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> >>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> >>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> >>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> >>> Mom, I don't know!"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>> >> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
>> >> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
>> >> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>> >
>> > I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
>> > doing it.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
>
>Why do they think you have them if not to read?

They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
imagine you reading them.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The first
>thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do arithmetic, but how
>to _count_. Specifically, how to count money. Many, even most, don't
>really need formal training as such. But many *do*.

For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change of Hobbit",
an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They didn't (I think they still
don't) have a cash register, only an adding machine and a cash box.
I got proficient at doing 10-key, *and* I learned how to subtract numbers
from a multiple of 10 without conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00
is 7.63 -- don't need to actually do the sum in my head, it just pops
in there. This is a skill that has stayed with me.

--
David Goldfarb |"English cuisine is the cuisine of fear."
|
| -- Andrew Conway

James Silverton > wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
of a teenager to do so.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Mary Shafer > wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:49:11 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:
>
>> It's true and remarkable how few numbers I have got committed to memory.
>> I usually look them up in a password protected file. Offhand, I can only
>> think of a few: some passwords, some ten-digit phone numbers (all phone
>> numbers are 10-digits around here), my social security number and my
>> 14-digit library card number that I need to access parts of the web site.
>
>I can still remember my UCLA student number, last used in about '71,
>but auto-dial has wiped most phone numbers from my mind. I know my
>driver's license number, but I've had the same one since I was 16.
>It's not just age, it's usage.

Yep. I'll be dammed if I know offhand where the notebook I use once a
month for a couple of days (and which I need tommorow for a meeting)
is. But I can still tell you all manner of things about where
emergency alarm buttons were, where damage control gear was kept,
battlestations procedures, systems power panels, etc...etc... for a
submarine I last served on and a weapons system I last touched nearly
a quarter of a century ago.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:27:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:



>>
>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
>
>Why do they think you have them if not to read?

Decoration. Many people buy books to put on a shelf just for that
look of being intelligent. Ask any flea market seller, books with
nice covers sell.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:27:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
>>> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
>>> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
>>
>>Why do they think you have them if not to read?
>
> Decoration. Many people buy books to put on a shelf just for that
> look of being intelligent. Ask any flea market seller, books with
> nice covers sell.

True enough. I was in a second hand bookshop once and the shopkeeper told
me some people buy books 'by the yard'!

>


--
http://www.shop.helpforheros.org.uk

On Oct 16, 11:36*pm, (David DeLaney) wrote:
> "and then Hillary will be positioned for 2016, and Bill's Magic Rainbow
> *Field will come back into play and the economy will finally get better" DeLaney

"Bill's Magic Rainbow *Field" reminded me of when he played Not My Job
and answered all three questions correctly. The topic was the TV
show, My Little Pony.
http://www.npr.org/2011/06/25/137386...ays-not-my-job

> --
> \/David DeLaney

--Bryan

On Oct 17, 5:04*am, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:27:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> >> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> >> most of them more than once is quite depressing.
>
> >Why do they think you have them if not to read?
>
> Decoration. *Many people buy books to put on a shelf just for that
> look of being intelligent. *Ask any flea market seller, books with
> nice covers sell. *

That's the primary function of "coffee table books". Pretty covers to
decorate your coffee table, and perhaps make for interesting perusal
when you get bored listening to present company! ;-)

John Kuthe...

On 16/10/2011 11:18 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

>
> A lot of communities are raising the sin taxes - tax alcohol. They
> are easy to pass, but make them more dependent upon sin.

Sad but true. It's like the many people in the illegal drug trade who
profit from the illegality of their product.
>

In article > ,
Paul Colquhoun > wrote:

> And then it turned out that even Darth Vader was the lesser of two
> evils.

Vote Cthulhu!

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

In article >,
Bryan > wrote:
>On Oct 16, 11:36*pm, (David DeLaney) wrote:
>> "and then Hillary will be positioned for 2016, and Bill's Magic Rainbow
>> *Field will come back into play and the economy will finally get
>better" DeLaney
>
>"Bill's Magic Rainbow *Field" reminded me of when he played Not My Job
>and answered all three questions correctly. The topic was the TV
>show, My Little Pony.
>http://www.npr.org/2011/06/25/137386...ays-not-my-job

Well, he has a daughter, now adult, who may have gone through MLP
madness at the appropriate age.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
David Goldfarb > wrote:
>In article >,
>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
>>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The first
>>thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do arithmetic, but how
>>to _count_. Specifically, how to count money. Many, even most, don't
>>really need formal training as such. But many *do*.
>
>For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change of Hobbit",
>an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They didn't (I think they still
>don't) have a cash register, only an adding machine and a cash box.
>I got proficient at doing 10-key, *and* I learned how to subtract numbers
>from a multiple of 10 without conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00
>is 7.63 -- don't need to actually do the sum in my head, it just pops
>in there. This is a skill that has stayed with me.

That's handy. Do you ever get to use it nowadays?

A couple of years ago my son wandered by while I was pounding
DunDraCon pre-registrations into the computer, and after watching
for a while said, "Mom, how is it that you never use the numkey
pad? With all your years as a secretary, I should've thought
you'd have picked up ten-key."

I explained, "Tris, I learned to type on a TYPEWRITER. A manual
typewriter at that. No numkey pad. No function keys. No CTRL
or ALT keys. In fact, you ought to remember when we were doing
DDC input into the old Cadmus on ADM3As, which didn't have any of
those keys either. Back in the day, secretaries typed on
typewriters; it was accountants who used ten-key."


> David Goldfarb |"English cuisine is the cuisine of fear."
|
| -- Andrew Conway

What in the heck does Mr. Conway mean? English cuisine derives
from the concept that good-quality food doesn't need any fancy
touches. If you have a hunk of good beef, you roast it and serve
it forth surrounded by parsnips or potatoes. If you're in
France, on the other hand, all you have is a stringy shin of beef
and you have to simmer it and spice it and wine it and so forth
to make it edible at all. While the English sneer at "French
fancy kickshaws."

I am speaking in the historical present, of course. You remember
the medieval Frenchman who, on returning from England, announced
in amazement that no Englishman ever drank water except as a
penance?

I have no idea what English cookery is like now; the one time I
was in England everything I found was either pizza or tandoori.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
Derek Lyons > wrote:
>James Silverton > wrote:
>
>>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>Mom, I don't know!"
>
>And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
>know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
>of a teenager to do so.

You may have hit the bull's-eye here.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

On 10/17/2011 8:18 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In >,
> Derek > wrote:
>> James > wrote:
>>
>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>
>> And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
>> know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
>> of a teenager to do so.
>
> You may have hit the bull's-eye here.
>

I'll second it, I remember being a teenager. Far too well, dammit.

Don't you?


Mark L. Fergerson

(David Goldfarb) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
>>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>such. But many *do*.
>
> For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change of
> Hobbit", an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They didn't (I
> think they still don't) have a cash register, only an adding
> machine and a cash box. I got proficient at doing 10-key, *and*
> I learned how to subtract numbers from a multiple of 10 without
> conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00 is 7.63 -- don't
> need to actually do the sum in my head, it just pops in there.
> This is a skill that has stayed with me.
>
If you know the old fashioned way of counting back change, you don't
even need to do that. There's no actual arithmetic involved, only
counting. You don't even to know the amount of change at any point,
including _after_ you finish.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2011-10-17, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:

> If you know the old fashioned way of counting back change, you don't
> even need to do that. There's no actual arithmetic involved, only
> counting.

The other problem is, the last 2-3 generations don't even know what
yer doing if you can count back change "the old fashioned way". They
stand there dumbfounded and somewhat suspicious, like yer trying to
pull a fast one.

nb

In article >,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
(David Goldfarb) wrote in
:
>
>> In article >,
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
>>>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>>first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>>arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>>money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>>such. But many *do*.
>>
>> For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change of
>> Hobbit", an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They didn't (I
>> think they still don't) have a cash register, only an adding
>> machine and a cash box. I got proficient at doing 10-key, *and*
>> I learned how to subtract numbers from a multiple of 10 without
>> conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00 is 7.63 -- don't
>> need to actually do the sum in my head, it just pops in there.
>> This is a skill that has stayed with me.
>>
>If you know the old fashioned way of counting back change, you don't
>even need to do that. There's no actual arithmetic involved, only
>counting. You don't even to know the amount of change at any point,
>including _after_ you finish.

Well, counting could be considered a form of arithmetic. I think
I could even manage to count back change, if the occasion ever
arose (the closest I get is at DunDraCon, where e.g. my line last
year was "At-the-door is forty dollars, thank you, ten [or sixty]
is your change." Not quite higher mathematics. This year the
at-the-door fee is fifty so it'll be more like "You gave me sixty
[in the form of three 20s], thank you, ten is your change.")

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

In article >,
> wrote:
>On 10/17/2011 8:18 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In >,
>> Derek > wrote:
>>> James > wrote:
>>>
>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>>
>>> And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
>>> know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
>>> of a teenager to do so.
>>
>> You may have hit the bull's-eye here.
>>
>
> I'll second it, I remember being a teenager. Far too well, dammit.
>
> Don't you?

Yes, but I was an outlier even as a teenager. I was a science
fiction fan, I wasn't interested in boys, and I hung out with my
own little group (the "fast classes", where the material was
supposed to be a little more advanced 'cause we were all supposed
to be smart; we were, too). As a result, all the desperate
teenaged angst, the jibes of the other girls that everybody else
tells about --- if any of that happened, I didn't notice it.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

"Dorothy J Heydt" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> > wrote:
>>On 10/17/2011 8:18 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> Derek > wrote:
>>>> James > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best
>>>>> schools
>>>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a
>>>>> couple
>>>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted:
>>>>> "Aw,
>>>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>>>
>>>> And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
>>>> know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
>>>> of a teenager to do so.
>>>
>>> You may have hit the bull's-eye here.
>>>
>>
>> I'll second it, I remember being a teenager. Far too well, dammit.
>>
>> Don't you?
>
> Yes, but I was an outlier even as a teenager. I was a science
> fiction fan, I wasn't interested in boys, and I hung out with my
> own little group (the "fast classes", where the material was
> supposed to be a little more advanced 'cause we were all supposed
> to be smart; we were, too). As a result, all the desperate
> teenaged angst, the jibes of the other girls that everybody else
> tells about --- if any of that happened, I didn't notice it.


Just wait until you get to the retirement home . . .

notbob > wrote in
:

> On 2011-10-17, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> > wrote:
>
>> If you know the old fashioned way of counting back change, you
>> don't even need to do that. There's no actual arithmetic
>> involved, only counting.
>
> The other problem is, the last 2-3 generations don't even know
> what yer doing if you can count back change "the old fashioned
> way". They stand there dumbfounded and somewhat suspicious,
> like yer trying to pull a fast one.
>
Yeah, but they do that anyway, regardless of how you give them their
change. The ones who give you enough to cover the purchase in the
first place.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
(David Goldfarb) wrote in
:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy > wrote:
>>>>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The
>>>>first thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do
>>>>arithmetic, but how to _count_. Specifically, how to count
>>>>money. Many, even most, don't really need formal training as
>>>>such. But many *do*.
>>>
>>> For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change
>>> of Hobbit", an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They
>>> didn't (I think they still don't) have a cash register, only
>>> an adding machine and a cash box. I got proficient at doing
>>> 10-key, *and* I learned how to subtract numbers from a
>>> multiple of 10 without conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from
>>> $20.00 is 7.63 -- don't need to actually do the sum in my
>>> head, it just pops in there. This is a skill that has stayed
>>> with me.
>>>
>>If you know the old fashioned way of counting back change, you
>>don't even need to do that. There's no actual arithmetic
>>involved, only counting. You don't even to know the amount of
>>change at any point, including _after_ you finish.
>
> Well, counting could be considered a form of arithmetic.

I suppose. But it's not, really.

> I
> think I could even manage to count back change, if the occasion
> ever arose (the closest I get is at DunDraCon, where e.g. my
> line last year was "At-the-door is forty dollars, thank you, ten
> [or sixty] is your change." Not quite higher mathematics. This
> year the at-the-door fee is fifty so it'll be more like "You
> gave me sixty [in the form of three 20s], thank you, ten is your
> change.")
>
Most people don't really deal with money all that much these days.
There's no change on a credit card, and cash back on a debit card
is almost always even dollar amounts.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(Paul Ciszek) wrote:

>
>In article >,
>Jesper Lauridsen > wrote:
>>On 2011-10-15, Howard Brazee > wrote:
>>>
>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
>>label?
>
>Wouldn't it be great if there were some way to know the base price of
>an item *before* getting it scanned by the cashier?

Here on my planet, we have this invention called "shelf tags". Maybe
one day yours will catch up to the 19th century equivalent.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>Very nice. I wish I had that much room for bookshelves; we
>currently have about eighty-five boxes full of books making
>stacks in one of the bookrooms; inherited from my late
>sister-in-law who bought books faster than she could read them.
>Trouble is, they're mostly computer books (with special emphasis
>on computer graphics) and they're all between five and twenty
>years old. In other words, they're all obsolete and getting more
>so.

Your problem isn't lack of bookshelves, it's an inability to get rid
of books. There's a difference.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:18:31 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
> wrote in
> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.food.cooking:

> In article >,
> Derek Lyons > wrote:

>>James Silverton > wrote:

>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to
>>> be being systematically taught arithmetic but that may
>>> not take. I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is
>>> reputed to have some of the best schools in the
>>> country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a
>>> woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
>>> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother
>>> asked her to go and pay for them. They were $1.50 each
>>> and her mother asked the girl how much money she
>>> wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"

>> And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom
>> I didn't know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's
>> in the perverse nature of a teenager to do so.

> You may have hit the bull's-eye here.

However, not all teenagers are especially perverse, and in
any case the perversity need not take that particular form.
In this case I shouldn't be at all surprised if the girl
*didn't* know. On the other hand, I'd also not be surprised
if it turned out that she was perfectly capable of working
it out and didn't know merely because she couldn't be
bothered.

Brian

"Brian M. Scott" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:18:31 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
> > wrote in
> > in
> rec.arts.sf.written,rec.food.cooking:
>
>> In article >,
>> Derek Lyons > wrote:
>
>>>James Silverton > wrote:
>
>>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to
>>>> be being systematically taught arithmetic but that may
>>>> not take. I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is
>>>> reputed to have some of the best schools in the
>>>> country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a
>>>> woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
>>>> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother
>>>> asked her to go and pay for them. They were $1.50 each
>>>> and her mother asked the girl how much money she
>>>> wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"
>
>>> And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom
>>> I didn't know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's
>>> in the perverse nature of a teenager to do so.
>
>> You may have hit the bull's-eye here.
>
> However, not all teenagers are especially perverse, and in
> any case the perversity need not take that particular form.
> In this case I shouldn't be at all surprised if the girl
> *didn't* know. On the other hand, I'd also not be surprised
> if it turned out that she was perfectly capable of working
> it out and didn't know merely because she couldn't be
> bothered.
>
now that I am getting older, I am going to start pulling this stuff again.

On 2011-10-17, Pico Rico > wrote:

> now that I am getting older, I am going to start pulling this stuff again.

Consciously?

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-10-17, Pico Rico > wrote:
>
>> now that I am getting older, I am going to start pulling this stuff
>> again.
>
> Consciously?
>

come to think about it, maybe I have already started!

On 2011-10-17, Howard Brazee > wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
> wrote:
>
>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the price after tax on the
>>label?
>
> I can see one big downside to this and other smaller downsides.
>
> The big downside is I like us to know what we are paying in taxes.

I like knowing what this purchase is going to cost me, a lot more. If
I want to know about taxes, I can just look at the receipt. Win-win.

And it seems to me, if you need the pre-tax price to figure out what
you're paying in taxes, then you don't know what you'll end paying
at checkout.

> And go buy a book with a price printed on its cover. Do we want a
> different printing for each tax district?

That's what price tags are for.

In article >,
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article ocal>,
> J. Clarke > wrote:
> >In article >, says...
> >>
> >> In article >,
> >> Walter Bushell > wrote:
> >> >In article >,
> >> > (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> God forbid that I should ever be dumped into a cage with a lot of
> >> >> other people with whom I have NOTHING in common except that we're
> >> >> all old.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fortunately, we can't afford it.
> >> >
> >> >Then you get dumped into a box of the same type that is publicly funded.
> >> >If such exists, otherwise you just die for lack of care.
> >>
> >> That might be preferable to living in an age-segregated warren.
> >>
> >> At present we're living with our daughter and son-in-law ('cause
> >> we're broke). That could continue for a while.
> >
> >Personally I'd rather roll my wheelchair in front of a train than live
> >in an old-folks' home.
>
> I've actually been in one, sort of. About fifteen years ago I
> had a bout of pancreatitis, and after two weeks in the hospital I
> was sent for another two weeks in a nursing home till they
> decided it was safe to take me off the IV (actually a PICC line).
> Half the facility catered mostly to middle-aged people recovering
> from broken hip or similar heavy-duty surgery. The other half
> was full of old people who mostly ... weren't there any more.
> They'd sit in bed staring blankly at television or in wheelchairs
> in the hall staring at nothing. It was sad. I do hope my heart
> or lungs or something goes before my brain does.
>
> And mind you, that was a *very good* nursing home. I was happy
> there, because I had a double room to myself (most patients didn't
> care for the street noise) and I had my computer. Everything was
> very clean and the old people were scrupulously cared for. But
> there was no there there.

Dorothy,
A point to think about on this. I watched my mother's last couple of
years with her in a nursing home (middling good to perhaps a bit better).
Much of the time it seemed, indeed, that there was "no there there" --
but sometimes the fog of medications (and age-related degenerations)
lifted enough for me to KNOW that the THERE was more than enough THERE
to be increasingly hopeless. My brother (and sister-in-law), with what
distant support I could give made several hard decisions about surgical
treatments, and meds, to make her end easier. In many ways, I know, she
would probably have wanted to have been cut off earlier - we discussed
this a fair amount after my father's long suffering from a major stroke,
and her watching _her_ mother go through all of this a generation
earlier.
I don't much want to be warehoused, no matter how good the warehouse.
But it is hard to know when to let go... One gets to the point that
suicide is very attractive -- but almost impossible to execute.
It certainly makes the prospect of a nursing home less attractive to
consider the fellow residents. But I have no younger generation relatives
I could even remotely consider being fobbed off on -- and I have seen the
agonies my brother and s-i-l dealt with in keeping my mother in her home
for as long as they did. I'll presumably be sufficiently far gone that
the unattractiveness of my room-mate and other residents will be a very
minor part of my agony.

On 2011-10-17, Dorothy J Heydt > wrote:
>
> I sit corrected. Numbers, as all here know, are not my forte.

Didn't you have a sideline helping people do their taxes? Or am
I confusing you with someone else?

On 2011-10-17, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >,
> "Pico Rico" > wrote:
>>
>> that is a ten YEAR increase of one percent in the city sales tax. Not even
>> Vallejo would be so stupid as to try for a ten percent city sales tax rate.
>
> Yup:
>
> http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/...1=981&Frame=L1
>
> "If Measure B passes, the sales tax rate would increase by 1.0% (from
> 7.375% to 8.375%) for a period of 10 years. This represents a one cent
> increase for every dollar spent on a taxable item."

Actually that's a 0.931 cent increase per dollar spent (assuming no other
after-price taxes are added).

On 2011-10-16, Paul Ciszek > wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Jesper Lauridsen > wrote:
>>On 2011-10-15, Howard Brazee > wrote:
>>>
>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the price after tax on the
>>label?
>
> Wouldn't it be great if there were some way to know the base price of
> an item *before* getting it scanned by the cashier?

I usually look at the price tag (normally found on the shelf, somewhere
near the item).

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> He meant "price," of course. But they don't print the price of
> anything on the item any more, just a bar code that the cashier's
> scanner can read. This means that if the price on something
> changes all they have to redo is the shelf labels.
>
> (Of course, this also means that they can say something is on
> sale at 89 cents ["formerly 1.29!"] when the actual former price
> was like 79. They depend on people having short memories,
> particularly for numbers, and they certainly have my number.)

Well... I know I recently mentioned to /someone/ that cola sold in
Asda went up from around 0.55 to 0.75 with no apparent cause (although
I didn't check everywhere else), then a few weeks later they announced
a generous price cut to the environs of 0.55 again - hooray!