"Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> I don't get that people would go back to a "tradition" that involves
> eating dinner in the middle of the day.

That's still what is done in Italy unless you cannot get home for midday
meal. It's considered healthier to eat the largest meal early rather than
just before bed. Work doesn't finish until 8PM here, so supper is light.

I don't generally like ketchup in the restaurant, especially from the packets. It tastes salty to me, isn't that funny?! I like good ol' Heinz ketchup. I actually hate the way they leave ketchup set out on the table sometimes for hours! Scary.


____________________
free software downloads|free software|free downloads

Giusi wrote:
> "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> I don't get that people would go back to a "tradition" that involves
>> eating dinner in the middle of the day.
>
> That's still what is done in Italy unless you cannot get home for midday
> meal. It's considered healthier to eat the largest meal early rather than
> just before bed. Work doesn't finish until 8PM here, so supper is light.
>
Its also not too long ago that in the south "dinner" was the midday meal
and supper was the later in the day meal and often light. Dinners were
larger to feed the working people (often agricultural work) who often
started early in the day to avoid the heat. You'll still hear older
folks down south refer to the midday meal as dinner instead of lunch.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 10:34:50 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
> "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> . So, this having Sunday dinner early and holiday dinner early
> > was an affectation for most people. I just don't understand why.
>
> I wouldn't call it an affectation. Certainly my family did it, but among
> our town it was because that was when you often invited guests and served a
> more elaborate meal. It took more time to prepare and more time to eat.
> Then it took some time to clean up, as well, so Sunday or holiday supper was
> very simple. On a holiday it might have been sandwiches from the leftovers
> of the dinner or on Sunday at my home it was whatever the kids requested.
> That was our sop thrown to make up for being forced to eat whatever we were
> served the rest of the week. In June it was sometimes just strawberry
> shortcake, or just asparagus. In August it was often just corn on the cob.
>
As a kid, our Sunday supper was a treat: popcorn. We ate popcorn and
watched Ed Sullivan. It was the only time we didn't have to sit at
the table to eat.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> "Giusi" > wrote:

>> "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>>> I don't get that people would go back to a "tradition" that involves
>>> eating dinner in the middle of the day.

>> That's still what is done in Italy unless you cannot get home for midday
>> meal. It's considered healthier to eat the largest meal early rather than
>> just before bed. Work doesn't finish until 8PM here, so supper is light.
>
>I get that. In the middle east, that is common, too, but it isn't
>common here and hasn't been for a very long time.

What gets me is Spain, especially Madrid, where people do not eat
dinner until about midnight.

Steve

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
>> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>>> "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>>>> I don't get that people would go back to a "tradition" that involves
>>>> eating dinner in the middle of the day.
>
>>> That's still what is done in Italy unless you cannot get home for midday
>>> meal. It's considered healthier to eat the largest meal early rather than
>>> just before bed. Work doesn't finish until 8PM here, so supper is light.
>>
>>I get that. In the middle east, that is common, too, but it isn't
>>common here and hasn't been for a very long time.
>
>What gets me is Spain, especially Madrid, where people do not eat
>dinner until about midnight.
>
>Steve


Too late for me. In Italy, most restaurants (aside from some in
tourist areas) open at 7 or 8. They also start the day later than we
do in the US also. Even gas stations close from 1 to 3 for lunch.

It works for them. They also tend to sit and relax more for meals,
not rush like we often do in this country.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:30:24 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
> > "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >
> > > I don't get that people would go back to a "tradition" that involves
> > > eating dinner in the middle of the day.
> >
> > That's still what is done in Italy unless you cannot get home for midday
> > meal. It's considered healthier to eat the largest meal early rather than
> > just before bed. Work doesn't finish until 8PM here, so supper is light.
>
> I get that. In the middle east, that is common, too, but it isn't
> common here and hasn't been for a very long time.

We're talking about "tradition". Certain people think honor killings
are okay here in the USA. It's not legal (here), but it's their
tradition. Eating holiday meals at two o'clock is tradition (for some
people) AND it's legal.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:31:24 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
> > "Ranee at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >
> > . So, this having Sunday dinner early and holiday dinner early
> > > was an affectation for most people. I just don't understand why.
> >
> > I wouldn't call it an affectation. Certainly my family did it, but among
> > our town it was because that was when you often invited guests and served a
> > more elaborate meal. It took more time to prepare and more time to eat.
> > Then it took some time to clean up, as well, so Sunday or holiday supper was
> > very simple. On a holiday it might have been sandwiches from the leftovers
> > of the dinner or on Sunday at my home it was whatever the kids requested.
> > That was our sop thrown to make up for being forced to eat whatever we were
> > served the rest of the week. In June it was sometimes just strawberry
> > shortcake, or just asparagus. In August it was often just corn on the cob.
>
> If it takes more time to prepare, then how does that square with
> coming home from church and serving it relatively immediately following?

There were the meals that were put into pots and taken to the baker to
cook while people where in church, then retrieved afterward and eaten.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> What gets me is Spain, especially Madrid, where people do not eat
> dinner until about midnight.
>
I can get behind that! Love the late nightlife.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio >
If it takes more time to prepare, then how does that square with
> coming home from church and serving it relatively immediately following?

Sunday dinner was often something that sat in an oven. In our house my
mother never went to church because she wasn't Catholic and we were. No
problem. Other neighbors had a live-in who got off work right after Sunday
dinner.

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> Too late for me. In Italy, most restaurants (aside from some in
> tourist areas) open at 7 or 8. They also start the day later than we
> do in the US also. Even gas stations close from 1 to 3 for lunch.
>
> It works for them. They also tend to sit and relax more for meals,
> not rush like we often do in this country.

Start later? You must have been asleep when everything opened at 8 AM.
When in big cities people live too far to go home for lunch, they start at 9
in an office or 10 in a shop and go straight through. Bank employees get
lunch tickets because they cannot have the 3 hour pausa.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:51:49 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> Too late for me. In Italy, most restaurants (aside from some in
>> tourist areas) open at 7 or 8. They also start the day later than we
>> do in the US also. Even gas stations close from 1 to 3 for lunch.
>>
>> It works for them. They also tend to sit and relax more for meals,
>> not rush like we often do in this country.
>
>Start later? You must have been asleep when everything opened at 8 AM.
>When in big cities people live too far to go home for lunch, they start at 9
>in an office or 10 in a shop and go straight through. Bank employees get
>lunch tickets because they cannot have the 3 hour pausa.
>


Around here, 8AM is later. I start at 7, but factories often start at
6. Breakfast places open at 5 to accommodate them.

In article >, Ed Pawlowski
> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:51:49 +0200, "Giusi" >
>wrote:
>>"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>>> Too late for me. In Italy, most restaurants (aside from some in
>>> tourist areas) open at 7 or 8. They also start the day later than we
>>> do in the US also. Even gas stations close from 1 to 3 for lunch.
>>>
>>> It works for them. They also tend to sit and relax more for meals,
>>> not rush like we often do in this country.
>>
>>Start later? You must have been asleep when everything opened at 8 AM.
>>When in big cities people live too far to go home for lunch, they start at 9
>>in an office or 10 in a shop and go straight through. Bank employees get
>>lunch tickets because they cannot have the 3 hour pausa.
>
>Around here, 8AM is later. I start at 7, but factories often start at
>6. Breakfast places open at 5 to accommodate them.

Back in the days when Angola was still a Portuguese colony I spent a
few days there.

In Nova Lisboa, my colleagues picked me up either rather early (around
7 a.m.) or else about mid morning. If the former, I was dropped back
at the pub about midday for a couple of hours, then back into it; if
the latter, we worked straight through until about 6 p.m. (And the
early shift was always greeted by a delightful young lady lab
assistant who handed out small cups of excellent strong coffee as we
walked in. :-)

Back in Luanda, I did a field trip one day which was blessed with a
long and unscheduled stoppage (it had its moments too) so didn't get
back to the pub until about 8:30 p.m. Based on experience with
commercial meal times here in the deep north of the deep south back in
those days, I was rather concerned that I had missed dinner as well as
lunch, so I hesitantly asked the receptionist if it was still possible
to get something to eat. "Of course, sir." he replied, "The dinning
room will open at 9." [And the waiter had a neat way of serving fresh
mango for dessert.]

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>Start later? You must have been asleep when everything opened at 8 AM.
>>When in big cities people live too far to go home for lunch, they start at
>>9
>>in an office or 10 in a shop and go straight through. Bank employees get
>>lunch tickets because they cannot have the 3 hour pausa.
>>
>
>
> Around here, 8AM is later. I start at 7, but factories often start at
> 6. Breakfast places open at 5 to accommodate them.

Hmm, I was thinking of the 9-5 thing, not shift work. These same Italians
stop work at 8 PM, however.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:58:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:51:49 +0200, "Giusi" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>>> Too late for me. In Italy, most restaurants (aside from some in
>>> tourist areas) open at 7 or 8. They also start the day later than we
>>> do in the US also. Even gas stations close from 1 to 3 for lunch.
>>>
>>> It works for them. They also tend to sit and relax more for meals,
>>> not rush like we often do in this country.
>>
>>Start later? You must have been asleep when everything opened at 8 AM.
>>When in big cities people live too far to go home for lunch, they start at 9
>>in an office or 10 in a shop and go straight through. Bank employees get
>>lunch tickets because they cannot have the 3 hour pausa.
>>
>
>
>Around here, 8AM is later. I start at 7, but factories often start at
>6. Breakfast places open at 5 to accommodate them.

Most plants operate 24/7, it's too costly to shut down a factory and
then start up every day... even the neighborhood bakery will close the
retail front portion but in the back bakers are working constantly
around the clock to fulfill both its retail and its wholesale orders
(no bakery can survive on retail alone), and it just costs too much to
shut down ovens and then start them up again every day. Most large
industrial plants never close, they run shifts around the clock. A
factory that only works banker's hours is being severely under
utilized and is not very productive, or it's really not a factory,
it's more a warehouse that receives primarily finished goods, makes
alterations, repackages, and ships orders, like how wood cutters, saw
mills, and lumber yards relate to each other and to the various end
user carpenters.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:43:18 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:



>
>Hmm, I was thinking of the 9-5 thing, not shift work. These same Italians
>stop work at 8 PM, however.
>

They miss out on the "early bird specials" that are big where the
seniors tend to reside in large numbers, like Florida. They start at
4 PM

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:35:46 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>In article >,
> George Leppla > wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2011 1:53 PM, sf wrote:
>> > Odd? It's not odd, it's the way people socialized before television
>> > and maybe before radio. Sunday was a day of rest and worship. They
>> > didn't work the fields and stores in small towns were closed. People
>> > sat around the dinner table, sometimes for hours, and talked to each
>> > other back then. They could gather together, have a nice meal and be
>> > home in decent time to get to bed and up for work the next day.
>>
>>
>> Probably had more to do with church. Back in the day, going to church
>> on Sunday was an every week thing. Most services are over by noon....
>> and that gives you two hours to get home and finish Sunday dinner which
>> was usually started by someone before you all went to church.
>
> Again, though, we go to church each week. We get home around
>12:30-ish. This doesn't mean that dinner has to be at 2:00. I'm just
>curious where the idea started that on Holy Days, dinner had to be
>earlier.

I think it was a way for the women folk to also have some ease one day
of the week. After a big dinner at 2, supper was very light and took
little preparation. We would have something like bread with
applesauce and milk or bread and cheese. My mother came from farm
folks in Minnesota and she often talked about having to cook for the
hands. Doing the kitchen work back in the day was full time, hot,
back breaking work. Like George said, the main meal was started
before church -- potatoes peeled and covered with water in a pot,
veggies prepped, the roast cooking in the oven. When the family got
home, little work was required to feed and then clean up. But I
think what happened to the main holidays was that the cook was up at
maybe 4 a.m. to get that 25-30 pound turkey or huge ham in the oven.
Dinner was served when the meat was ready. Friends and family came to
eat the holiday meal and required time to get there and then get home.
If they were farm folk, they still needed time at the end of the day
to take care of stock. For city folk, their church may have had
evening meetings for men's and women's clubs or additional services
for Lent or Advent.
Janet US

On 16/10/2011 10:50 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Most plants operate 24/7, it's too costly to shut down a factory and
> then start up every day..


Most? I guess you must be referring to the big plants and mills which
have to run 24/7 to be profitable. There are lots of smaller operations
that only run one or two shifts per day.

.. even the neighborhood bakery will close the
> retail front portion but in the back bakers are working constantly
> around the clock to fulfill both its retail and its wholesale orders


In small bakeries the bakers come in early to prepare the products for
the day. They usually leave early. Our local Italian bakery has someone
in cooking about 3 am, and if you go there early you may see the baker.
He is gone by about 10 am and his wife runs the front sales for the rest
of the day.

That's how it is where I live (W. WI). When I moved ehre I'd frequently hear farmers say after lunchtime that they just had dinner. It's a meal, not a sandwhich. Just a little soemthing to tide you over is lunch.

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
+0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>>Hmm, I was thinking of the 9-5 thing, not shift work. These same Italians
>>stop work at 8 PM, however.
>>
>
> They miss out on the "early bird specials" that are big where the
> seniors tend to reside in large numbers, like Florida. They start at
> 4 PM

LOL Did you find a lot of those on your trip?

Janet Bostwick > wrote:
> But I
> think what happened to the main holidays was that the cook was up at
> maybe 4 a.m. to get that 25-30 pound turkey or huge ham in the oven.

And I question how that became such an intrinsic tradition, since it
meant the big hunk of meat was finished a good three hours before even
the earliest normal dinner.

> Dinner was served when the meat was ready. Friends and family came to
> eat the holiday meal and required time to get there and then get home.
> If they were farm folk, they still needed time at the end of the day
> to take care of stock.

Which they would have to do on every other day, too, not only Sundays
and holidays.

For city folk, their church may have had
> evening meetings for men's and women's clubs or additional services
> for Lent or Advent.

Lent and Advent come before holidays. Folks aren't having Easter dinner
during Lent.

"Ranée @ Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> And I question how that became such an intrinsic tradition, since it
> meant the big hunk of meat was finished a good three hours before even
> the earliest normal dinner.

I think it is the guests thing. Guests in ordinary homes were not frequent
other than those occasions and as has been pointed out, it was a huzzarai
for everyone involved. Over the river and through the woods... it meant
something back then.

at our local seafood house, they have earlybird specials for eight to ten
dollars, instead of twelve to sixteen, smaller meat portion but overall
still quite enough... right now this same resto has a five oz lobster tail
and a bacon wrapped fillett, with potato and salad for eighteen dollars, Lee
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> +0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>>Hmm, I was thinking of the 9-5 thing, not shift work. These same
>>>Italians
>>>stop work at 8 PM, however.
>>>
>>
>> They miss out on the "early bird specials" that are big where the
>> seniors tend to reside in large numbers, like Florida. They start at
>> 4 PM
>
> LOL Did you find a lot of those on your trip?
>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:45:34 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 16/10/2011 10:50 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Most plants operate 24/7, it's too costly to shut down a factory and
>> then start up every day..
>
>
>Most? I guess you must be referring to the big plants and mills which
>have to run 24/7 to be profitable. There are lots of smaller operations
>that only run one or two shifts per day.
>
>. even the neighborhood bakery will close the
>> retail front portion but in the back bakers are working constantly
>> around the clock to fulfill both its retail and its wholesale orders
>
>
>In small bakeries the bakers come in early to prepare the products for
>the day. They usually leave early. Our local Italian bakery has someone
>in cooking about 3 am, and if you go there early you may see the baker.
>He is gone by about 10 am and his wife runs the front sales for the rest
>of the day.

Neigborhood bakeries run 24/7, they need to sell wholesale to
survive... the front retail is just extra, the wholesale is the bulk
of their business. And local bakeries all bake enough of particular
products to supply each other, no neighborhood bakery can make all the
many products they sell. They need to do the volume to get the
quantity discounts on supplies too. And the utility bills to run a
bakery are enormous, they can't close down unless they are going out
of business. You are talking a small cottage industry mom n' pop
operation, not a real bakery... there's a couple of those near here
too, one only does party/wedding cakes and a few other low volume
items like linzer tarts and assorted cookies but nothing regularly...
most all her baking is special order. She has a bake shop the size of
a two car garage with two ovens. It's a rough business, she can't
trust others to run the front, neighborhood bakeries are an all cash
business. She had to move about 4 years ago to a smaller location,
she couldn't make the rent. I think she's doing better now but she
moved a few towns away and I haven't been... it's still essentially a
one person operation, just her and occasionally she hires a high
school student part time. Knowing how to bake and operating a bakery
are two very different things.
Hah! Seems she's out of business:
http://www.dawnsbakery.com/zen-cart/...php?main_page=
Several people around here started up a bakery business, they don't
last long, the population here can't support a bakery and the
stupidmarkets all have a crappy in house bakery. Most folks around
here buy packaged goods from the stupidmarket, or from a chain bakery,
the donut shops do fine, Dunkin is thriving. There a small bakery
that started up in town recently, I doubt they will last... it's the
first bakery I ever entered that I didn't buy something. NYC used to
have so many neighborhood bakeries you couldn't walk 500 feet between
them, now you need to search the yellow pages to find them, they
couldn't make it... and if a meighborhood bakery can't make it in NYC
then it's a dying industry, and it is... and like most ethnic food
business when the original owners retire or die their children want
nothing to do with that sweat labor.

On 16/10/2011 4:52 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> at our local seafood house, they have earlybird specials for eight to ten
> dollars, instead of twelve to sixteen, smaller meat portion but overall
> still quite enough... right now this same resto has a five oz lobster tail
> and a bacon wrapped fillett, with potato and salad for eighteen dollars, Lee
> > wrote in message
> ...

Those early bird specials are rare around here. I only know one
restaurant around here that offered them. It was a full serving but much
cheaper than the regular prices. That place has since gone under. About
two years ago when my son was moving from Montreal to Toronto we met him
in the city while he was apartment hunting. HE had an appointment at
6:30 and we had to get back home so we were going to grab a quick meal
nearby. We had checked out a a few places and rejected them and had
ruled out the fast food joints. We had lowered the bar to head for Swiss
Chalet.

We were just about to cross the street when we spotted a Spanish
restaurant that was advertising early bird specials.... they had a
selection of about a dozen entrees for $10. The service was fast and the
food was delicious. My son was impressed with the speed of the food
service and talked to the owner, who gave him a tour of the kitchen.

nice. Lee
"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 16/10/2011 4:52 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> at our local seafood house, they have earlybird specials for eight to ten
>> dollars, instead of twelve to sixteen, smaller meat portion but overall
>> still quite enough... right now this same resto has a five oz lobster
>> tail
>> and a bacon wrapped fillett, with potato and salad for eighteen dollars,
>> Lee
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>
> Those early bird specials are rare around here. I only know one restaurant
> around here that offered them. It was a full serving but much cheaper than
> the regular prices. That place has since gone under. About two years ago
> when my son was moving from Montreal to Toronto we met him in the city
> while he was apartment hunting. HE had an appointment at 6:30 and we had
> to get back home so we were going to grab a quick meal nearby. We had
> checked out a a few places and rejected them and had ruled out the fast
> food joints. We had lowered the bar to head for Swiss Chalet.
>
> We were just about to cross the street when we spotted a Spanish
> restaurant that was advertising early bird specials.... they had a
> selection of about a dozen entrees for $10. The service was fast and the
> food was delicious. My son was impressed with the speed of the food
> service and talked to the owner, who gave him a tour of the kitchen.
>
>

On 10/16/2011 5:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 16/10/2011 4:52 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> at our local seafood house, they have earlybird specials for eight to ten
>> dollars, instead of twelve to sixteen, smaller meat portion but overall
>> still quite enough... right now this same resto has a five oz lobster
>> tail
>> and a bacon wrapped fillett, with potato and salad for eighteen
>> dollars, Lee

> We were just about to cross the street when we spotted a Spanish
> restaurant that was advertising early bird specials.... they had a
> selection of about a dozen entrees for $10. The service was fast and the
> food was delicious.

I know that early bird specials are the source of much hilarity,
but when my work schedule stopped dictating my meal times, I
having breakfast then having my main meal at 3 or so just came
naturally. I don't go to places where they advertise early
bird specials, but usually the lunch specials are good til 4pm.
The place isn't crowded, we get our seats at the bar, the food is
just as good and Bob's your uncle. I usually have two meals a
day.

> My son was impressed with the speed of the food
> service and talked to the owner, who gave him a tour of the kitchen.

Cool.

nancy

On Oct 16, 2:01*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:45:34 -0400, Dave Smith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On 16/10/2011 10:50 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >> Most plants operate 24/7, it's too costly to shut down a factory and
> >> then start up every day..
>
> >Most? I guess you must be referring to the big plants and mills which
> >have to run 24/7 to be profitable. There are lots of smaller operations
> >that only run one or two shifts per day.
>
> >. even the neighborhood bakery will close the
> >> retail front portion but in the back bakers are working constantly
> >> around the clock to fulfill both its retail and its wholesale orders
>
> >In small bakeries the bakers come in early to prepare the products for
> >the day. They usually leave early. Our local Italian bakery has someone
> >in cooking about 3 am, and if you go there early you may see the baker.
> >He is gone by about 10 am and his wife runs the front sales for the rest
> >of the day.
>
> Neigborhood bakeries run 24/7, they need to sell wholesale to
> survive... the front retail is just extra, the wholesale is the bulk
> of their business. And local bakeries all bake enough of particular
> products to supply each other, no neighborhood bakery can make all the
> many products they sell. *They need to do the volume to get the
> quantity discounts on supplies too. *And the utility bills to run *a
> bakery are enormous, they can't close down unless they are going out
> of business. * You are talking a small cottage industry mom n' pop
> operation, not a real bakery... there's a couple of those near here
> too, one only does party/wedding cakes and a few other low volume
> items like linzer tarts and assorted cookies but nothing regularly...
> most all her baking is special order. *She has a bake shop the size of
> a two car garage with two ovens. *It's a rough business, she can't
> trust others to run the front, neighborhood bakeries are an all cash
> business. *She had to move about 4 years ago to a smaller location,
> she couldn't make the rent. *I think she's doing better now but she
> moved a few towns away and I haven't been... it's still essentially a
> one person operation, just her and occasionally she hires a high
> school student part time. *Knowing how to bake and operating a bakery
> are two very different things.
> Hah! *Seems she's out of business:http://www.dawnsbakery.com/zen-cart/...php?main_page=
> Several people around here started up a bakery business, they don't
> last long, the population here can't support a bakery and the
> stupidmarkets all have a crappy in house bakery. *Most folks around
> here buy packaged goods from the stupidmarket, or from a chain bakery,
> the donut shops do fine, Dunkin is thriving. *There a small bakery
> that started up in town recently, I doubt they will last... it's the
> first bakery I ever entered that I didn't buy something. *NYC used to
> have so many neighborhood bakeries you couldn't walk 500 feet between
> them, now you need to search the yellow pages to find them, they
> couldn't make it... and if a meighborhood bakery can't make it in NYC
> then it's a dying industry, and it is... and like most ethnic food
> business when the original owners retire or die their children want
> nothing to do with that sweat labor.

Now this is a depressing post as I am going to open up a small bakery-
I am a realist, and I know it won't be easy. But I know I can offer
better than what is available...

On Oct 16, 4:01*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:45:34 -0400, Dave Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On 16/10/2011 10:50 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >> Most plants operate 24/7, it's too costly to shut down a factory and
> >> then start up every day..
>
> >Most? I guess you must be referring to the big plants and mills which
> >have to run 24/7 to be profitable. There are lots of smaller operations
> >that only run one or two shifts per day.
>
> >. even the neighborhood bakery will close the
> >> retail front portion but in the back bakers are working constantly
> >> around the clock to fulfill both its retail and its wholesale orders
>
> >In small bakeries the bakers come in early to prepare the products for
> >the day. They usually leave early. Our local Italian bakery has someone
> >in cooking about 3 am, and if you go there early you may see the baker.
> >He is gone by about 10 am and his wife runs the front sales for the rest
> >of the day.
>
> Neigborhood bakeries run 24/7, they need to sell wholesale to
> survive... the front retail is just extra, the wholesale is the bulk
> of their business. And local bakeries all bake enough of particular
> products to supply each other, no neighborhood bakery can make all the
> many products they sell. *They need to do the volume to get the
> quantity discounts on supplies too. *And the utility bills to run *a
> bakery are enormous, they can't close down unless they are going out
> of business. *

You're absolutely right. There is a neighborhood bakery up the street
here that sells pastry and bread out of a small store front, and they
make decorated cakes, as well as pizza crusts for most of the pizza
places in town (besides awful Pizza Hut and the like). They do a hell
of a business, and the guys that run it work 16 hour days seven days a
week. I don't know how they keep going.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:24:28 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>+0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>>Hmm, I was thinking of the 9-5 thing, not shift work. These same Italians
>>>stop work at 8 PM, however.
>>>
>>
>> They miss out on the "early bird specials" that are big where the
>> seniors tend to reside in large numbers, like Florida. They start at
>> 4 PM
>
>LOL Did you find a lot of those on your trip?
>

We were barely finished lunch at that hour.

I do have to say, the worst meal we had in Italy I'd still have to
rate as "good". Even a couple of stops at the AutoGrill were better
than many restaurants in the US.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:01:13 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:


>Several people around here started up a bakery business, they don't
>last long, the population here can't support a bakery and the
>stupidmarkets all have a crappy in house bakery. Most folks around
>here buy packaged goods from the stupidmarket, or from a chain bakery,
>the donut shops do fine, Dunkin is thriving. There a small bakery
>that started up in town recently, I doubt they will last... it's the
>first bakery I ever entered that I didn't buy something. NYC used to
>have so many neighborhood bakeries you couldn't walk 500 feet between
>them, now you need to search the yellow pages to find them, they
>couldn't make it... and if a meighborhood bakery can't make it in NYC
>then it's a dying industry, and it is... and like most ethnic food
>business when the original owners retire or die their children want
>nothing to do with that sweat labor.

When we lived in Philly, my wife did not bake. There were a few
neighborhood bakeries that had very good pastries, bread, etc. There
was no good reason to bake when high quality at reasonable prices were
there for the asking. They are gone now.

Sadly, people actually think the drek in the supermarkets is good.
They have no idea what a really good pound cake or Danish is like.
They have never had a sandwich on a really good crusty seeded Kaiser
roll.