Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting that
it's going to keep me awake.
It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
kitchen that was not so visible.
Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
Polly

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> wrote:

> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
> refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting that
> it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?

Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
Ugh!


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> to refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> that it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
> family meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and
> highchairs to catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well
> wishing for a kitchen that was not so visible.
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly

My whole house is open. Small as it is. You can see from the front door to
the back of it. Or you could. I finally hung up some sheer curtains in the
living room. I don't like opening my front door and having whoever is there
seeing everything. We've been robbed three times and the Sheriff said it
was likely that the robber came to the door and saw what he or she wanted.
Then came back when we weren't home.

My kitchen is tiny. Not at all like what you see on TV. If there is one
person in it and another goes in, one will want to kill the other in short
order. Just doesn't work.

On Oct 2, 11:07*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
> > wrote:
> > Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> > clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
> > refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
> > it's going to keep me awake.
> > * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> > seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
> > kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> > * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> > meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> > catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> > kitchen that was not so visible.
> > * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> > having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>
> Absolutely not! *I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> kitchen. *Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> Ugh!
>
>
>
I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. I *think* I'd like a
kitchen den combo, but not really sure. I know I don't want the whole
house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.

"Polly Esther" > wrote
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly

The place we are staying at this week is open. I'm not cooking here so I
can't say for sure, but I think I'd rather have that wall back and hang some
cabinets on it.

On Oct 2, 11:47*pm, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
> it's going to keep me awake.
> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly

It doesn't have to be full walls everywhere but I like some type of
division between the kitchen area and the living area. I don't watch
HGTV but one example of a floor plan that I would not like is the home
set on the show "Home Improvement." It's like the kitchen is in the
middle of the living room.

"ItsJoanNotJoann" wrote in message
...

On Oct 2, 11:07 pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
> > wrote:
> > Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> > clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> > to
> > refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> > that
> > it's going to keep me awake.
> > It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> > seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want
> > their
> > kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> > I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
> > family
> > meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> > catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
> > kitchen that was not so visible.
> > Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> > having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>
> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> Ugh!
>
>
>
I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. I *think* I'd like a
kitchen den combo, but not really sure. I know I don't want the whole
house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.

- - - - - - - - - - -

I don't like the open concept. I'm often not very neat when I cook, and I
like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and the
den/living room.

MaryL

"MaryL" > wrote:
> "ItsJoanNotJoann" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Oct 2, 11:07 pm, sf > wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>>
>> > wrote:
>>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
>>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer > > to
>>> refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting > > that
>>> it's going to keep me awake.
>>> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
>>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want > > their
>>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
>>> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a > > family
>>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
>>> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
>>> kitchen that was not so visible.
>>> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
>>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>>
>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>> Ugh!
>>
>>
>>
> I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. I *think* I'd like a
> kitchen den combo, but not really sure. I know I don't want the whole
> house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I don't like the open concept. I'm often not very neat when I cook, and
> I like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
> Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and the den/living room.
>
> MaryL

The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking allot.

At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.

I tend to have Music Videos on the TV when cleaning the house.

--
Nad

"Nad" > wrote
> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking a lot.

>
> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.

Only a few days a year does our kitchen get hot. In summer, the grill does
all the hot work, the microwave for veggies and the like. With the oven
going and a couple of burners, you can make a lot of heat though.

Being open, you can still interact with guests. The down side, during the
quiet relaxing time of a meal, I don't want to be looking at stack of pots
and pans and the like.

sf wrote:

> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> Ugh!

Very good point.
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> Ugh!


We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
when we had 18 people over for a BBQ and it got to 104 degrees outside.

I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
bedrooms and room for the office.

Huh..... if I want a house like that, I'd probably have to design it
myself and have a heck of a time if I ever wanted to sell it.

George L

On 2011-10-03, Polly Esther > wrote:

> Do you really crave open concept?

Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.

Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.

nb

On 10/3/2011 8:35 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>> Ugh!
>
>
> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
> plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
> been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
> when we had 18 people over for a BBQ and it got to 104 degrees outside.
>
> I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
> kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
> bedrooms and room for the office.
>
> Huh..... if I want a house like that, I'd probably have to design it
> myself and have a heck of a time if I ever wanted to sell it.
>

My daughter's house has such a "Great Room". The arrangement is not
particularly unusual in newer houses either where I live in the East or
California like she does. The kitchen is open but delineated by high
counters with cabinets over them and there is no actual division between
the dining and sitting area. It seems to work rather well but I'll admit
the TV is in the basement.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> to refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> that it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
>

I have it (old house we converted) and I like it.

let me speak to this in a way that i am sure they don't discuss on that
channel... flat out its cheaper to build, by a substantial amount, that is
why we will be having a modified vrsion of it... also for us, open cuts down
on the clostrophobia... and lastly i am hoping, but not relying, that it
will encourage me to keep it picked up better. Lee
"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> to refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> that it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
> family meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and
> highchairs to catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well
> wishing for a kitchen that was not so visible.
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly
>
>

the dishes never occurred to me as i was trainned to wash as we cooked, so
there are rarely a lot of messy items in the kitchen when we eat, and the
thought of a seperate dining room to me seperate from the kitchen is a waste
of space to me, i much prefer an eat in kitchen so the rest of the house
does other things, Lee
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Nad" > wrote
>> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
>> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
>> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the
>> kitchen
>> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking a lot.
>
>>
>> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
>> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
>> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>
> Only a few days a year does our kitchen get hot. In summer, the grill
> does all the hot work, the microwave for veggies and the like. With the
> oven going and a couple of burners, you can make a lot of heat though.
>
> Being open, you can still interact with guests. The down side, during the
> quiet relaxing time of a meal, I don't want to be looking at stack of pots
> and pans and the like.

the house i grew up in was such a house, eat in kitchen four bedrooms master
with a half bath, living room finished basement, breeseway and two car
garage, but my mom designed it and my father built it, i guess in todays
parlance it would be considered a modified ranch. Lee
"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>> Ugh!
>
>
> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
> plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
> been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
> when we had 18 people over for a BBQ and it got to 104 degrees outside.
>
> I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
> kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
> bedrooms and room for the office.
>
> Huh..... if I want a house like that, I'd probably have to design it
> myself and have a heck of a time if I ever wanted to sell it.
>
> George L

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>> Ugh!
>
>
> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
> plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
> been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...

We chose to use some of the seating area you use for prep work and storage.
Our kitchen is smaller, but we use the dining room every night, by choice.


> I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
> kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
> bedrooms and room for the office.

Agree now that the kids are gone. We liked having the living room to be
with our guests (no TV, of course) while the kinds could use the family room
with their friends. What was ideal 30 years ago, could be change now.
We've thought about moving to a one floor house, but it does not seem to be
a good idea right now. Can't find what we really want, not ready to tackle
building.

"George Leppla" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with

For many the dining room is what we call a lazy room, so it makes sense to
give it a second job. Library is a good second job for it. Think about it.

"notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
, Polly Esther > wrote:
>
>> Do you really crave open concept?
>
> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>
> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.

The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with some
of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't like modern
architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims like "It's just a
cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is stupid."

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:04:16 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
> wrote:

> I *think* I'd like a
> kitchen den combo, but not really sure. I know I don't want the whole
> house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.

We're on the same page.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 07:35:28 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

>
> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
> plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
> been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
> when we had 18 people over for a BBQ and it got to 104 degrees outside.

Situations change according to where you live. I live in a more
formal area because it's usually too cold to entertain outside and
we're built into a hill so we have to go down two stories to bbq, so
formal entertaining is better for me. If I lived in a single story
house where the weather was conducive to outdoor entertaining, my
needs would be different.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

one floor is the only way to go, Lee
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George Leppla" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
>>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>>> Ugh!
>>
>>
>> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
>> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
>> plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
>> been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
>
> We chose to use some of the seating area you use for prep work and
> storage. Our kitchen is smaller, but we use the dining room every night,
> by choice.
>
>
>> I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
>> kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
>> bedrooms and room for the office.
>
> Agree now that the kids are gone. We liked having the living room to be
> with our guests (no TV, of course) while the kinds could use the family
> room with their friends. What was ideal 30 years ago, could be change
> now. We've thought about moving to a one floor house, but it does not seem
> to be a good idea right now. Can't find what we really want, not ready to
> tackle building.

and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
chose against them for that reason
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> , Polly Esther > wrote:
>>
>>> Do you really crave open concept?
>>
>> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
>> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
>> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
>> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
>> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
>> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>>
>> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>
> The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with
> some of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't like
> modern architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims like
> "It's just a cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is stupid."
>
>

"notbob" <>
> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>
> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.

Now there's another trendy notion that baffles me. It seems that the new
homes with those cathedral ceilings have bedrooms miserably small. And how
do you change lightbulbs or paint the ceiling? Calling the fire department
to bring the ladder truck to come dust the chandelier would probably annoy
them. Polly

On 2011-10-03, Giusi > wrote:

> The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with some
> of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't like modern
> architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims like "It's just a
> cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is stupid."

What? The "finest talents of the architectural world" are all totally
altruistic and have no motives, whatsoever, to benefit themselves and/or
their clients? Are you that naive!? Hard to tell, at this point, as
you're not above using a bogus quote to try and make your point.

nb

On Oct 3, 3:38*am, Nad > wrote:
> "MaryL" > wrote:
> > "ItsJoanNotJoann" *wrote in message
> ....
>
> > On Oct 2, 11:07 pm, sf > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
> >> > wrote:
> >>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> >>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer > > to
> >>> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting > > that
> >>> it's going to keep me awake.
> >>> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> >>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want > > their
> >>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> >>> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a > > family
> >>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> >>> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> >>> kitchen that was not so visible.
> >>> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> >>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>
> >> Absolutely not! *I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> >> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> >> kitchen. *Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> >> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> >> Ugh!
>
> > I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. *I *think* I'd like a
> > kitchen den combo, but not really sure. *I know I don't want the whole
> > house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.
>
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> > I don't like the open concept. *I'm often not very neat when I cook, and
> > I like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
> > Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and the den/living room.
>
> > MaryL
>
> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking allot.
>
> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>
> I tend to have Music Videos on the TV when cleaning the house.
>
> --
> Nad- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just as it may be cooler in the kitchen if the heat can diffuse, so
can cooking odors permeate soft surfaces a lot easier if the kitchen
is open - I don't want my dining chairs, carpet, or drapes (or living
room, either, for that matter) smelling like yesterday's bacon.
Running an exhaust fan over the oven gets rid of lots of odors -
harder to do with the whole thing open.

N.

i had them in a mobile home and liked the look also was nice for the ceiling
fan, but when discussing with the builders it cost more because it was more
"finished space," also the higher area cost more to heat/cool, so went
without it, :d Lee
"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>
> "notbob" <>
>> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
>> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
>> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
>> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
>> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
>> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>>
>> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>
> Now there's another trendy notion that baffles me. It seems that the new
> homes with those cathedral ceilings have bedrooms miserably small. And
> how do you change lightbulbs or paint the ceiling? Calling the fire
> department to bring the ladder truck to come dust the chandelier would
> probably annoy them. Polly

i will have NO carpet drapes or fabric furniture. too much allergins, Lee
"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 3, 3:38 am, Nad > wrote:
> "MaryL" > wrote:
> > "ItsJoanNotJoann" wrote in message
> ...
>
> > On Oct 2, 11:07 pm, sf > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
> >> > wrote:
> >>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the
> >>> house,
> >>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from
> >>> freezer > > to
> >>> refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting >
> >>> > that
> >>> it's going to keep me awake.
> >>> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> >>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want > >
> >>> their
> >>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> >>> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a > >
> >>> family
> >>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs
> >>> to
> >>> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
> >>> kitchen that was not so visible.
> >>> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> >>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the
> >>> time?
>
> >> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> >> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> >> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> >> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> >> Ugh!
>
> > I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. I *think* I'd like a
> > kitchen den combo, but not really sure. I know I don't want the whole
> > house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.
>
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> > I don't like the open concept. I'm often not very neat when I cook, and
> > I like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
> > Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and
> > the den/living room.
>
> > MaryL
>
> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking allot.
>
> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>
> I tend to have Music Videos on the TV when cleaning the house.
>
> --
> Nad- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just as it may be cooler in the kitchen if the heat can diffuse, so
can cooking odors permeate soft surfaces a lot easier if the kitchen
is open - I don't want my dining chairs, carpet, or drapes (or living
room, either, for that matter) smelling like yesterday's bacon.
Running an exhaust fan over the oven gets rid of lots of odors -
harder to do with the whole thing open.

N.

On Oct 3, 9:57*am, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> "notbob" <>
>
> > Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
> > off on buyers as de rigueur. *The builder has one less wall to
> > buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
> > believing it's cool or chic. *Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
> > Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
> > living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>
> > Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>
> Now there's another trendy notion that baffles me. *It seems that the new
> homes with those cathedral ceilings have bedrooms miserably small. *And how
> do you change lightbulbs or paint the ceiling? *Calling the fire department
> to bring the ladder truck to come dust the chandelier would probably annoy
> them. *Polly

No, I call my journeyman electrician son and he brings over the 12'
ladder ;-) - but that's only for my foyer chandelier - my regular
ceilings are regular height.

N.

On 2011-10-03, Storrmmee > wrote:
> and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
> chose against them for that reason

That's cuz consumers are gullilbe idiots.

Remember when the whole logo craze took off. I recall its humble
beginnings with farm hats. Free hats handed out to farmers with the
intent of promoting a product. Tractors companies, feed companies,
etc. Massey-Furgeson was the most popular in my neck of the woods.
You could take those all black hats with the bright gold lettering and
black-magic-marker out the smaller Massey-Furgeson under the huge MF
above it. I don't think I need explain further.

Later, I realized what this brilliant marketing strategy had spawned
when I went to buy a six-pak of cheap beer at my local liquor store
and saw they were selling polo shirts with the store's name/logo for
$25, this at a time when the same un-logo'd shirt would cost $10-15.
I knew the owner rather well and asked what the deal was. I told him
I'd wear the shirt to promote his store if he gave me the shirt for
free. Silly me.

From there it exploded. Huge logos. Guess, Hilfiger, etc. Try and
buy a piece of apparel without the maker's name, blazened somewhere
across one's chest/back. Tags that used to be on the inside were now
on the outside. It was the most brilliant marketing coup in the
history of advertising! We all became walking billboards. Madison
Avenue hadda be laughing their drowning-in-money asses off!

I've worked as a carpenter. My late brother was a master carpenter,
directing the building of $8M homes. Are you gonna try and tell me
that it cost more to build a home with a wide open space two stories
high than one with a 2nd floor and multiple rooms/walls?

Charging you more is not the same as actually costing more, a concept
totally lost on our status crazed culture.

nb

On Oct 2, 11:47*pm, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
> it's going to keep me awake.
> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly

I am not crazy about it, I try to seat guests so that they are seeing
the out of doors or my living room rather than the kitchen with a
visible mess. If I were rich, I'd extend the sit-at counter up to the
ceiling and block out the kitchen.

Gimme the old days when there was a true WALL to the ceiling twixt
kitch and dining room - with a swinging door, or course. I am not
crazy open room dividers nor pass thru windows either, but it does
make serving and clearing easier.

On 10/3/2011 9:29 AM, Giusi wrote:
> "George > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
>> house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
>
> For many the dining room is what we call a lazy room, so it makes sense to
> give it a second job. Library is a good second job for it. Think about it.
>
>

Our dining room would make an excellent office. Becca even suggested
that when we bought the house, but opted to convert a spare bedroom for
that job. I should have listened to her.

George L

On 3 Oct 2011 15:41:49 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2011-10-03, Storrmmee > wrote:
>> and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
>> chose against them for that reason
>
>That's cuz consumers are gullilbe idiots.
>
>Remember when the whole logo craze took off. I recall its humble
>beginnings with farm hats. Free hats handed out to farmers with the
>intent of promoting a product. Tractors companies, feed companies,
>etc. Massey-Furgeson was the most popular in my neck of the woods.
>You could take those all black hats with the bright gold lettering and
>black-magic-marker out the smaller Massey-Furgeson under the huge MF
>above it. I don't think I need explain further.
>
>Later, I realized what this brilliant marketing strategy had spawned
>when I went to buy a six-pak of cheap beer at my local liquor store
>and saw they were selling polo shirts with the store's name/logo for
>$25, this at a time when the same un-logo'd shirt would cost $10-15.
>I knew the owner rather well and asked what the deal was. I told him
>I'd wear the shirt to promote his store if he gave me the shirt for
>free. Silly me.
>
>From there it exploded. Huge logos. Guess, Hilfiger, etc. Try and
>buy a piece of apparel without the maker's name, blazened somewhere
>across one's chest/back. Tags that used to be on the inside were now
>on the outside. It was the most brilliant marketing coup in the
>history of advertising! We all became walking billboards. Madison
>Avenue hadda be laughing their drowning-in-money asses off!
>
>I've worked as a carpenter. My late brother was a master carpenter,
>directing the building of $8M homes. Are you gonna try and tell me
>that it cost more to build a home with a wide open space two stories
>high than one with a 2nd floor and multiple rooms/walls?
>
>Charging you more is not the same as actually costing more, a concept
>totally lost on our status crazed culture.

You have no clue what you're babbling about. You've hit on logos,
hats, beer, shirts, tractors, feed companies, gullible idiots, and bla
bla bla.

You may have worked as a carpenter's helper but you sure didn't learn
anything. The crane and/or ladder work is much more labor intensive.
Sometimes (usually) the walls need to be 2X6. Many of the ceilings
have complex angles and have to be stick built onsite. Hanging
drywall at 22 feet is far more difficult than at 8 and a scaffold is
needed. The painter and electrician will also need a scaffold for a
two story job. Most people won't stand on the top of a 16 foot ladder
to hang a paddle fan. If the ceiling has skylights the carpenter will
need to spend more time trimming it out. ETC.

Lou

On 02/10/2011 11:47 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> to refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> that it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying seem
> to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were having
> a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time? Polly
>
>


I would have a hard enough time withe main entrance of our house being
through our kitchen. I find it very difficult to keep the kitchen tidy.

thanks lou, I just knew six builders wouldn't say the same thing ... i also
chose to not have two stories, but the short answer from the builders was
about support walls and something to do with the roof, when the two i worked
with before deciding on what to get had numbers, they were significantly
differeng, but then thats just my real life experience in the last year,
nothing like nailing things a few year back, Lee
"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
...
> On 3 Oct 2011 15:41:49 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>>On 2011-10-03, Storrmmee > wrote:
>>> and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee,
>>> who
>>> chose against them for that reason
>>
>>That's cuz consumers are gullilbe idiots.
>>
>>Remember when the whole logo craze took off. I recall its humble
>>beginnings with farm hats. Free hats handed out to farmers with the
>>intent of promoting a product. Tractors companies, feed companies,
>>etc. Massey-Furgeson was the most popular in my neck of the woods.
>>You could take those all black hats with the bright gold lettering and
>>black-magic-marker out the smaller Massey-Furgeson under the huge MF
>>above it. I don't think I need explain further.
>>
>>Later, I realized what this brilliant marketing strategy had spawned
>>when I went to buy a six-pak of cheap beer at my local liquor store
>>and saw they were selling polo shirts with the store's name/logo for
>>$25, this at a time when the same un-logo'd shirt would cost $10-15.
>>I knew the owner rather well and asked what the deal was. I told him
>>I'd wear the shirt to promote his store if he gave me the shirt for
>>free. Silly me.
>>
>>From there it exploded. Huge logos. Guess, Hilfiger, etc. Try and
>>buy a piece of apparel without the maker's name, blazened somewhere
>>across one's chest/back. Tags that used to be on the inside were now
>>on the outside. It was the most brilliant marketing coup in the
>>history of advertising! We all became walking billboards. Madison
>>Avenue hadda be laughing their drowning-in-money asses off!
>>
>>I've worked as a carpenter. My late brother was a master carpenter,
>>directing the building of $8M homes. Are you gonna try and tell me
>>that it cost more to build a home with a wide open space two stories
>>high than one with a 2nd floor and multiple rooms/walls?
>>
>>Charging you more is not the same as actually costing more, a concept
>>totally lost on our status crazed culture.
>
> You have no clue what you're babbling about. You've hit on logos,
> hats, beer, shirts, tractors, feed companies, gullible idiots, and bla
> bla bla.
>
> You may have worked as a carpenter's helper but you sure didn't learn
> anything. The crane and/or ladder work is much more labor intensive.
> Sometimes (usually) the walls need to be 2X6. Many of the ceilings
> have complex angles and have to be stick built onsite. Hanging
> drywall at 22 feet is far more difficult than at 8 and a scaffold is
> needed. The painter and electrician will also need a scaffold for a
> two story job. Most people won't stand on the top of a 16 foot ladder
> to hang a paddle fan. If the ceiling has skylights the carpenter will
> need to spend more time trimming it out. ETC.
>
> Lou

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:56:25 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Oct 2, 11:47*pm, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
>> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
>> it's going to keep me awake.
>> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
>> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
>> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
>> kitchen that was not so visible.
>> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>> Polly
>
>It doesn't have to be full walls everywhere but I like some type of
>division between the kitchen area and the living area. I don't watch
>HGTV but one example of a floor plan that I would not like is the home
>set on the show "Home Improvement." It's like the kitchen is in the
>middle of the living room.

My kitchen is "U" shaped with a long counter separating the dining
area. Anyone sitting at the table can't see into the kitchen without
standing and neck craning... works for me as I don't ever want any
help when cooking and I definitely don't want anyoine in my work
space, it's dangerous to cook with people behind, alongside, and when
you turn aroUnd you fall over each other... I do not permit anyone in
my works space. I also have a full formal dining room area that is
fully separate and apart from my kitchen but I don't use it as such
nor is it furnished as such, I have it furnished as a conversation
pit/den, it's for relaxing after dinner... I don't permit food in
there nor in any part of my house other than the kitchen/eating area.
I honestly don't like having large groups of guests, six is my limit
but rather 2-4, I prefer small intimate groups, I don't like parties,
not even at someone else's house... and anyone visits and wants to
watch TV should have stayed home, I have no TV for guests. If I'm
gonna sit in the dark and watch a movie it's gonna be in the balcony
with one hand down some women's blouse and the other inside her
panties.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 07:35:28 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

>On 10/2/2011 11:07 PM, sf wrote:
>> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
>> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
>> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
>> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
>> Ugh!
>
>
>We have a formal dining room and it is the least used room in the
>house.... and a total waste of space. Our kitchen is 14' X 22' with
>plenty of room for a very large table that seats 6 comfortably. We've
>been in this house over 4 years and we only used the dining room once...
>when we had 18 people over for a BBQ and it got to 104 degrees outside.


During the first four years I lived here I didn't use the dining room
even once, so I closed off the door from the kitchen and removed the
wall between the dining room and the living room. My living room was
then huge; 28' X 18', so I furnished about 1/3 informal and 2/3
formal... works for me... I closed off the original living room
opening from a hallway by having a french door installed, keeps my
cats out, I rarely sit in there either because I prefer the back of
the house to the front facing the road, the back has far better
views... everyone who visits ends up looking out at my back yard,
mesmerized... I've got my very own Jurassic Park.

>I'm not sure I like an "open" floorplan, but all we need is a big eat-in
>kitchen, a nice living room (I don't need a "den" or "family room") some
>bedrooms and room for the office.

I like walls and doors. I've seen houses where the bathrooms had no
doors, just an arch... one had a master bath for two in the master
bedroom with no hint of a wall whatsoever, just two terlits side by
side... too military... even aboard ship the terlits were in the head,
not in the sleeping area. I don't want to cook with anyone, I sure
don't want to shit in tandem.

>Huh..... if I want a house like that, I'd probably have to design it
>myself and have a heck of a time if I ever wanted to sell it.

You'd have no problem selling to a Democrat.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 16:31:29 +0200, "Giusi" > wrote:

>
>"notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>, Polly Esther > wrote:
>>
>>> Do you really crave open concept?
>>
>> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
>> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
>> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
>> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
>> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
>> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>>
>> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>
>The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with some
>of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't like modern
>architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims like "It's just a
>cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is stupid."

Sure it's a scam, a 30' ceiling with no upstairs, they don't give you
basements either... I have a hay barn like that... a very open floor
plan designed for storing silage. He's talking typical HOA tract
homes, not your cistern chapel. Btw, there are actually hay barns
around here being retrofitted into homes, first thing people do is
spend a fortune adding a second floor and making rooms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/re...icut.html?_r=1

On 10/2/2011 5:47 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> to refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
> that it's going to keep me awake.
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying seem
> to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were having
> a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time? Polly
>
>

When I was planning my condo kitchen, I was trying to figure out a way
to stick the refrigerator almost into the living room as a way to keep
the traffic flow by people with no intention of cooking out of my way.
That never happened but it sure was an appealing layout for me. I have
never heard of a trend of a flow-through kitchen but there's probably
some practical merit in it. As it goes, I cook in a flowing manner as do
most experienced cooks and it's always a drag when somebody gets in the
way - as they invariably do.