"Storrmmee" > wrote in message
...
> and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
> chose against them for that reason


Lord knows I cannot reach those ceiling fans to clean them!

Jill

> "Giusi" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> , Polly Esther > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you really crave open concept?
>>>
>>> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
>>> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
>>> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
>>> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
>>> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
>>> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>>>
>>> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>>
>> The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with
>> some of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't like
>> modern architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims like
>> "It's just a cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is
>> stupid."
>>
>>
>
>

Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:

> I've already changed many of the fixtures to Kohler, they make the
> best faucets, never need any attention, never drip. Whenever I need a
> new fixture if Kohler makes it that's what I'll buy. Yesterday I also
> bought a new kitchen sink strainer, chose a Kohler of course. Doesn't
> matter that Kohler costs more, it's worth it, in the end it costs
> less...

Did you make sure the Kohler label was prominently displayed?

Bob

Jill replied to sf:

>>> I like open concept between living room and dining room,
>>
>> Really? I hate that. I don't want my table in the living room. I'd
>> need at least a half wall higher than the table separating the two.
>
> My last apartment had an open dining/living room. I solved that problem
> by putting up an oriental standing floor screen to separate the two
> spaces. It worked out well. It was still open but it didn't *feel* open.
> Sometimes you gotta get creative

That was the first thing I thought of when people complained about the
visibility. It's child's play to block the view. Having the open
architecture merely gives you the OPTION of providing that view. You're not
forced to keep that look.

Bob

On 10/6/2011 7:28 AM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:
>
>> I've already changed many of the fixtures to Kohler, they make the
>> best faucets, never need any attention, never drip. Whenever I need a
>> new fixture if Kohler makes it that's what I'll buy. Yesterday I also
>> bought a new kitchen sink strainer, chose a Kohler of course. Doesn't
>> matter that Kohler costs more, it's worth it, in the end it costs
>> less...
>
> Did you make sure the Kohler label was prominently displayed?

A friend of mine used to tell a story about his young son TJ.
They were in the bathroom when suddenly TJ says excitedly,
Dad! Dad! I know how to spell toilet. Laughing, my friend
said Really? How?

K O H L E R!!

nancy

On 10/5/2011 9:57 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
> On Oct 5, 8:38 am, > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Then we have these cabinets now which don't reach the ceiling. You
>> not only lose a ton of storage, but you get to buy all those plastic
>> plants and knick-knacks which you get to climb and dust/wash every so
>> often. LOOKS nice, but.... a non-functional pain in the rear. Is
>> this another builders' cost cut?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>
> My cabinets don't reach to the ceiling and although I don't have the
> storage space if they did, it really doesn't bother me. I have a
> collection of cookie jars in that space. Yes, I have to get on a step
> ladder to reach them to clean them, but I'd have to have a ladder or
> tall enough stool to reach whatever would be squirreled away in the
> top of those cabinets. UGH, no plastic flowers please but I do like
> the cookie jars.
>

I have red pitchers on top of mine. I also have a cleaning person who
dusts them every other week ;-)

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On 10/6/2011 6:10 AM, jmcquown wrote:

> Lord knows I cannot reach those ceiling fans to clean them!
>
> Jill
>

Here are two things that help:

1) Swiffer with a long folding handle. Unfold it and bend the end over
and it will reach a ceiling fan hung from a 10 foot ceiling.

2) A special ceiling fan brush. I think hardware stores carry them,
maybe some discount or grocery chains. They are a flattened oval brush
with a gap in the middle. You spray it with Endust and pass it over the
blade.

Regular cleaning with these items makes it necessary to use the ladder
once or twice a year.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 07:10:43 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>
> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
> ...
> > and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
> > chose against them for that reason
>
>
> Lord knows I cannot reach those ceiling fans to clean them!

They sell special dusters that bend for that.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 04:38:49 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> That was the first thing I thought of when people complained about the
> visibility. It's child's play to block the view. Having the open
> architecture merely gives you the OPTION of providing that view. You're not
> forced to keep that look.

The OPTION is buy the house or not. No reason either to spend any
money on a house with bad design in the first place if you don't want
it. Most people have atrocious taste, can't plan their way out of a
closet and can't decorate worth a darn, so don't expect them to figure
out how to change a basic architectural look that they don't like in
the first place.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
> > wrote:
>
>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>
> She did then, doesn't now.
>
> --
What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes. Beside
the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No lawn and
yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll fix or replace
it.

Jill

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 07:10:43 -0400, "jmcquown" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee,
>> > who
>> > chose against them for that reason
>>
>>
>> Lord knows I cannot reach those ceiling fans to clean them!
>
> They sell special dusters that bend for that.
>
Yeah, I'm going to have to get one. With a telescoping arm. The ceiling in
the living room is easily 22 ft. high. The other rooms all have 9 ft.
ceilings, so same problem.

Jill

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:35:23 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On 5 Oct 2011 15:11:57 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>> On 2011-10-05, Goomba > wrote:
>>
>> > How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
>> > Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
>> > produced by electricity <shrug>
>>
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>> A BTU is a BTU, regardless if it originates from a tree or a power
>> station.
>>
>Sure, they lose the same amount of heat if you stand there with the
>door open but the fact is that electric burners lose less heat than
>gas does. Look it up, numbnuts.

You're wrong. Either top burner loses heat depending on the expertise
of the cook... but electic top burners tend to lose more heat because
even the best pot bottoms don't sit flat and with electric contact is
important. Gas can be efficient regardless how bent the pot bottom,
and also gas is more responsive so wastes less energy in thet regard
too.

>I've never understood the
>complaining everyone who uses a gas oven has about it heating up the
>room,

Gas or electric ovens heat up the room exactly equally, both are
vented into the room... anyone complaining just has that kind of
nature that rather than become educated they complain about everything
they don't understand... which is most everything.

>but OBVIOUSLY gas ovens lose more heat too because I DO NOT have
>that problem with my fairly OLD electric wall mounted ovens.

That's it's you, sf, makes it LEAST obvious. Wall ovens lose more
heat because they don't have exterior sheet metal, they are not sealed
as well as a stove oven. Drop in stoves are not as well insulated
either, they mostly rely on the surrounding cabinetry, which varies
greatly. People buy drop in stoves and wall ovens more for aesthetics
than for energy efficiency. Many people don't want the look of the
traditional kitchen with traditional appliances... they typically have
a few more dollars than brain cells.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:11:09 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 23:16:39 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
>>> gregz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>>>> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>>>> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens. Greg
>>>
>>> How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
>>> Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
>>> produced by electricity <shrug>
>>
>>The burner can give off more hat, especially if you use too small a pan for
>>the size burner. Electrics will too, but they seem to be less so.
>>
>>Some convection ovens seem to give off more heat then conventional, but I've
>>not seen enough to draw a conclusion.
>
> Regardless which energy source, how much heat is wasted is primarilly
> a product of ones cooking ability. The mark of the best cooks are
> those who can get the job done with the lowest heat settings.

what ****ing rubbish. do you think michelin awards stars for energy
conservation?

blake

sf wrote:
>
>At one point hubby was trying to get me to move to another city.

I don't blame him.

>What we always looked for was a home with a good circular flow from
>room to room, including the outdoor entertainment area.

So that's why you chose to live in a single wide. heheheh

those woould be going to half or ebay, i think there is a decent marke t for
those types of books, same for decorations you don't want, especially if you
find some that you know the history of, Lee
"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote
>>
>>>> . Can't find what we really want, not ready to tackle building.
>>
>>> Who says you have to build? I don't know where you live but there are
>>> probably lots of single storey homes on the market. (Of course if you
>>> want everything to your specifications you can always do renovations.)
>>
>> I've looked and nothing in our area is suitable. Two that were nice were
>> very nice and out of my price range. I'm not looking to buy more
>> expensive as I get closer to retirement. After 30 years in a house and
>> neighborhood we like, it is not easy as we will also have to leave
>> "stuff" behind.
>>
>> >Not to suggest you're old or anything, but you might want to start
>> >thinking about a single storey home. I was so grateful my parents
>> >didn't build a house with stairs. In their later years there is no way
>> >they could have managed them.
>>
>> We are getting older 66/65 and my wife has issues with stairs, thus the
>> consideration to move.
>>
> 65 isn't old... not by today's standards. Maybe consider looking in a
> different area? No one is chaining you to one spot
>
> I wish my someone had told my parents to leave "stuff" behind when they
> moved here I'm still finding stuff in this house. I thought I'd gone
> through every closet with a fine-tooth comb. Wrong! Just found a bunch
> of old books in the hall closet. I love books, don't get me wrong. But
> these are military books my father collected, not my usual have a cup of
> tea and read a book sort of material. LOL I'm also going to have a
> Christmas tree this year just so I can figure out what Christmas stuff is
> still in the attic. I'm sure there are ornaments I haven't seen in 35
> years. It's going to be fun to decorate for a holiday I don't really
> observe
>
> Jill

there are some distinct advantages to apt living, not enough to overcome
anyone telling me who and what species can live with me though, Lee
"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>
>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>
>> --
> What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes.
> Beside the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No
> lawn and yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll fix
> or replace it.
>
> Jill

you said this better than anyone else, please tell how/;why you think it was
easier to furnish? Lee
"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> I've been following this thread.
>
> Our house is an open concept house. There is a definite entrance way which
> is set off from the living area with an arch. The living, dining and
> kitchen areas are all open to each other. The kitchen is separated by a
> "breakfast bar"
>
> When we bought the house we had no furniture as we had been living in our
> fifth wheel RVs for 9 years. The open plan house was easy to furnish. We
> are two seniors with a little Poodle. The lack of "formal rooms" was,
> frankly, a plus.
>
> We do have high ceilings in the living and dining area and a coffered
> ceiling in the kitchen. The floors are tile. This makes the house a little
> more noisy than I would like, but it's not so bad that we can't live with
> it.
>
> Our family is not local so we don't have them all together for meals. Our
> everyday table seats 4 or 5 and when we want to have more guests, we use a
> long folding table. It works because no one we invite cares about the
> layout of the dining room and kitchen. They care about the warmth of the
> hosts and the quality of the food.
>
> JMTCW
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

my friend has a gismo for this but it just didn't make sense to build
housing with those pushdown handles because of our oncoming age, then put in
a ceiling that immediately might require paid assistance to do maintainance
work.

Lee
"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
>> chose against them for that reason
>
>
> Lord knows I cannot reach those ceiling fans to clean them!
>
> Jill
>
>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> , Polly Esther > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you really crave open concept?
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think it's a cost cutting concept that's been foisted
>>>> off on buyers as de rigueur. The builder has one less wall to
>>>> buy/build and, like logos on clothing, the buyer has been duped into
>>>> believing it's cool or chic. Similiar to the cathedral ceiling scam.
>>>> Looks cool and impresses visitors, but that's a whole buncha upstairs
>>>> living space, lost, while the builder cuts costs.
>>>>
>>>> Let's face it, the consumer is essestially dumber'n a bag o' hair.
>>>
>>> The origins are not bargain homes at all. Open planning was begun with
>>> some of the finest talents of the architectural world. If you don't
>>> like modern architecture, OK, it isn't for you, but don't make claims
>>> like "It's just a cheapjack builder trick and anyone who chooses it is
>>> stupid."
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote
> But the substantially higher cost of heating a ranch more than
> eradicates the savings from building up... that's why colonial homes
> are two stories or more... even a dummy like sf should know that heat
> rises. Plumbing and wiring costs more for a ranch too, longer runs...
> and ranches have much larger foundations, that adds a huge cost. So
> why do folks desire ranches, much more comfortable living is why,
> especially regarding privacy issues.

Your forgot the more squares of roofing too.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 04:28:31 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:
>
>> I've already changed many of the fixtures to Kohler, they make the
>> best faucets, never need any attention, never drip. Whenever I need a
>> new fixture if Kohler makes it that's what I'll buy. Yesterday I also
>> bought a new kitchen sink strainer, chose a Kohler of course. Doesn't
>> matter that Kohler costs more, it's worth it, in the end it costs
>> less...
>
>Did you make sure the Kohler label was prominently displayed?

Why? The strainer is in the kitchen sink drain. There's a Kohler
"K" lightly etched into the top of the little stopper plunger thingie
(practically a shadow) but it's covered with a sink mat, no one sees
it. Actually Kohler doesn't mark their products very promenently,
they don't really need to, their beautifully designed products speak
for themselves. I have Kohler sink faucests in both bathrooms. Most
everyone who sees them asks me who makes them. They are marked but so
inconspicuosly that most people wouldn't notice.. I just got up to
take a look and had to look carefully to notice the Kohler name in
such small font that without looking carefully, determinently, and
purposefully I'd miss it... the fraucet has the Kohler name "hidden"
on the plastic button on top (looks more like a small directional
arrow) between the much larger font "H" --- "C"... the font is so
small that I can't read it without my glasses and I don't have a very
strong Rx. There's a very faintly etched K on top of the drain
stopper, barely noticeable, the tiniest bit of shaving cream soap scum
obliterates it, it's prismatic, one needs to look from the correct
angle to see it... a cursory glance wouldn't notice. Made me get up
again, the new Kohler terlit seat I just bought deesn't even say
Kohler, not even a K... maybe hidden where it's bolted down but I'm
not going to remove it to check. I know someone will ask about it
because of its silent self closing feature, I think it's pretty
amazing... I'm still not used to letting it close on it's own. You
should consider getting one but should wait until Kohler develops the
feature that will wipe your face! lol

jmcquown wrote:
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>
>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>
>> --
> What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes.
> Beside the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living.
> No lawn and yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks;
> they'll fix or replace it.
>
> Jill

This person knows that you couldn't afford it. You bitch about pennies!

-HB

**

"Honey Badger" > wrote in message
...
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>>
>>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>>
>>> --
>> What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes.
>> Beside the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No
>> lawn and yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll
>> fix or replace it.
>>
>> Jill
>
> This person knows that you couldn't afford it. You bitch about pennies!
>
> -HB
>
You keep proving you're an idiot (as well as a fixated troll). Anyone who
has money knows they should *watch* it. If I bitch about pennies it's
because I have pennies to spend. I save money by insisting on free shipping
if I order something online. You betcha. I clip coupons for grocery
shopping, you betcha. I save money, that's why I have money. You are an
ignorant, jealous fool.

Jill

"Honey Badger" > wrote in message
...
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>>
>>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>>
>>> --
>> What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes.
>> Beside the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No
>> lawn and yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll
>> fix or replace it.
>>
>> Jill
>
> This person knows that you couldn't afford it. You bitch about pennies!
>
> -HB
>
> **

BTW, I love the way you keep morphing your addy like you think I actually
care. LOL

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 11:46:13 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>
>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>
>> --
>What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes. Beside
>the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No lawn and
>yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll fix or replace
>it.

There are apartments in Manhattan where the rent each day is more than
the Badger's yearly pay, from her pimp.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 23:38:32 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote
>> But the substantially higher cost of heating a ranch more than
>> eradicates the savings from building up... that's why colonial homes
>> are two stories or more... even a dummy like sf should know that heat
>> rises. Plumbing and wiring costs more for a ranch too, longer runs...
>> and ranches have much larger foundations, that adds a huge cost. So
>> why do folks desire ranches, much more comfortable living is why,
>> especially regarding privacy issues.
>
>Your forgot the more squares of roofing too.

That too. The perimeter of a ranch is longer too so gutters cost
more... landscaping can cost more too.

On 10/6/2011 3:08 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> you said this better than anyone else, please tell how/;why you think it was
> easier to furnish? Lee


For one thing, we didn't need a kitchen set *and* a dining room set or a
living room set *and* a family room set. The open concept saved us the
cost of two rooms of furniture.

Because there is excellent lighting from recessed ceiling lights and a 5
light ceiling fan, we didn't need any table lamps or floor lamps.
Another savings.

The living room has the only wall that needed furniture and I found a
local carpenter who built me a bar cabinet, entertainment center and
"china" cabinet to my specifications. Other than that, we have a sofa,
two love seats, two occasional tables, a coffee table and a sofa table
which helps to separate the rooms. One wall in the living room has a
French door to the screen room.

The dining area has a glass-top table and 4 chairs as well as a small
high table with a wine rack in the bottom of it. There are two stools
that match the chairs next to the breakfast bar.

Other than some pictures on the wall, that's all the furniture we needed.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:50:22 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>>> "Nad" > wrote
>>>> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
>>>> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
>>>> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
>>>> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking a lot.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
>>>> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
>>>> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>>>
>>> Only a few days a year does our kitchen get hot. In summer, the grill
>>> does all the hot work, the microwave for veggies and the like. With the
>>> oven going and a couple of burners, you can make a lot of heat though.
>>>
>>> Being open, you can still interact with guests. The down side, during
>>> the quiet relaxing time of a meal, I don't want to be looking at stack of
>>> pots and pans and the like.
>>
>> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.
>
> Gas and electric BTUs are exactly the same... if either stove is
> heating up your kitchen excessively then you need to buy better
> cookware and learn how to use it. Electric stoves typically waste
> more heat due to pots that don't have flat bottoms... gas cooks the
> same regardless how bent a pot bottom, just be sure to choose a pot
> that covers the flames. Of course if you live where winters are cold
> then whatever heat is produced by your stove also heats your abode...
> in hot weather cook outdoors. Regardless gas or electric you
> shouldn't be using your oven during warm weather... really silly to
> bake while your ac is on... believe it or not serious bakers have an
> outdoor oven for summer baking, many folks have an entire outdoor
> kitchen and they eat outdoors too.

No. A gas stove has to be vented. An electric oven is sealed. Its simple
logic which I have experienced many times.

I have a gas stove by preference, and it was too complicated to get a dual
setup.

I also think a gas stove loses heat up around the sides of pots. And
electric mostly goes by conduction, and some go directly. Gas does seem to
distribute heat well, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking
about.

Of course, I use my turbo oven for the fast. Split and browned dog, 7
minutes from cold start.

Greg

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 11:49:23 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

> Yeah, I'm going to have to get one. With a telescoping arm. The ceiling in
> the living room is easily 22 ft. high.

Holy cow, that's high!

> The other rooms all have 9 ft. ceilings, so same problem.

That's more like what I'm used to.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 01:24:19 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
wrote:

> Its simple logic

That's a new concept for Sheldum.


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

In article om>,
Janet Wilder > wrote:

> On 10/6/2011 2:01 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:35:24 -0700, > wrote:

> >> Single story has always been preferred, but now that knees and hips
> >> are going bad - older people won't settle for two stories anymore.
> >> The best configuration is bedroom& bath on the first floor for the
> >> "old people" and more bedrooms above to save money because it costs
> >> less to build up than out.
> >
> > But the substantially higher cost of heating a ranch more than
> > eradicates the savings from building up... that's why colonial homes
> > are two stories or more... even a dummy like sf should know that heat
> > rises.

> In warm climates, it's stupid to build up as it takes twice as much
> energy to cool a two story house. Only very wealthy people build two
> story houses here.

But sf lives in SF:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climate

Average low temperature is 51F, average high temperature is 65F, and the
variation isn't high. There's not a lot of heating or cooling required!

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:31:06 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article om>,
> Janet Wilder > wrote:
>
>> On 10/6/2011 2:01 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> > On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:35:24 -0700, > wrote:
>
>> >> Single story has always been preferred, but now that knees and hips
>> >> are going bad - older people won't settle for two stories anymore.
>> >> The best configuration is bedroom& bath on the first floor for the
>> >> "old people" and more bedrooms above to save money because it costs
>> >> less to build up than out.
>> >
>> > But the substantially higher cost of heating a ranch more than
>> > eradicates the savings from building up... that's why colonial homes
>> > are two stories or more... even a dummy like sf should know that heat
>> > rises.
>
>> In warm climates, it's stupid to build up as it takes twice as much
>> energy to cool a two story house. Only very wealthy people build two
>> story houses here.
>
>But sf lives in SF:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climate
>
>Average low temperature is 51F, average high temperature is 65F, and the
>variation isn't high. There's not a lot of heating or cooling required!

No heating or air conditioning needed if those temps are correct. Try
-45F winter for a low, and +95F for a high, with a average temp of
78F. Now that's what you call a drastic temp change.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote
>
> Because there is excellent lighting from recessed ceiling lights and a 5
> light ceiling fan, we didn't need any table lamps or floor lamps. Another
> savings.

It must be exceptional. I've never seen ceiling lighting that is better and
easier on the eyes than a table lamp. I really dislike overhead lighting in
a home. Even at my office at work, my two windows provide enough light that
I never turn the overheads on except for really dark days.

"Who_me?" > wrote
> That is a sweeping and quite inaccurate generalisation.
>
> I am in my fifties, my wife in her forties, we have no children living
> with us and we still prefer a multi story home. I like a house with plenty
> of room. Entertainment, office, and dining/cooking areas downstairs, and
> bedrooms, gym, media room upstairs.

Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
changes as you age and the joints don't work as well. We've made changes so
my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are thinking of
taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue to have good
health.

On 7/10/2011 4:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Who_me?" > wrote
>> That is a sweeping and quite inaccurate generalisation.
>>
>> I am in my fifties, my wife in her forties, we have no children living
>> with us and we still prefer a multi story home. I like a house with
>> plenty of room. Entertainment, office, and dining/cooking areas
>> downstairs, and bedrooms, gym, media room upstairs.
>
> Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
> changes as you age and the joints don't work as well.

That is EXACTLY why I want to keep a multi story home. Use it or lose it.

One of the fittest of all older age groups are those among the cruising
yacht fraternity. Even in their eighties they are still fit and agile.
They don't get the joint (mostly hip) and muscle problems that many of
their peers who live in conventional housing do. In Shute harbour where
hundreds of cruising yachts congregate, there are quite a few
octogenarian yachtsmen and women who can run rings around sixty year
olds. My father is one of them. A yacht is never still, you have to keep
adjusting balance, and living on one means climbing ladders, rowing
dinghies, etc. It keeps you moving and keeps you fit. Drop into a
cruising yacht club if you get a chance and meet some of the older
denizens. They might surprise you.

> We've made changes
> so my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are thinking
> of taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue to have
> good health.

I hope you look at doing the opposite of what you suggest.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:31:06 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article om>,
> Janet Wilder > wrote:
>
> > On 10/6/2011 2:01 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:35:24 -0700, > wrote:
>
> > >> Single story has always been preferred, but now that knees and hips
> > >> are going bad - older people won't settle for two stories anymore.
> > >> The best configuration is bedroom& bath on the first floor for the
> > >> "old people" and more bedrooms above to save money because it costs
> > >> less to build up than out.
> > >
> > > But the substantially higher cost of heating a ranch more than
> > > eradicates the savings from building up... that's why colonial homes
> > > are two stories or more... even a dummy like sf should know that heat
> > > rises.
>
> > In warm climates, it's stupid to build up as it takes twice as much
> > energy to cool a two story house. Only very wealthy people build two
> > story houses here.
>
> But sf lives in SF:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climate
>
> Average low temperature is 51F, average high temperature is 65F, and the
> variation isn't high. There's not a lot of heating or cooling required!

I wasn't advocating one or the other. I was just describing the ideal
configuration for those who need to live on one floor but also need
more square footage to accommodate family or guests because it's more
economical to build up than out. Nobody bothers to heat or cool an
unused second floor unless they have more money than brains.

I, personally, prefer a single story home. However, it's an
impossible dream here in SF due to the high cost of land and the cost
per square foot of homes here in the City. I could have a single
story home with the square footage I want (which is 2600-3000 sq ft),
if I lived anywhere else, but it's only a dream here.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Who_me?" > wrote
>> That is a sweeping and quite inaccurate generalisation.
>>
>> I am in my fifties, my wife in her forties, we have no children living
>> with us and we still prefer a multi story home. I like a house with
>> plenty of room. Entertainment, office, and dining/cooking areas
>> downstairs, and bedrooms, gym, media room upstairs.
>
> Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
> changes as you age and the joints don't work as well. We've made changes
> so my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are thinking of
> taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue to have good
> health.

I agree, Ed! I'm reminded of my father's mother, who had a lovely
multi-storey home built in the early 1920's. Fantastic woodwork, built-in
china cabinets in the dining room. Mahogany, IIRC. Back around 1983 my
dad's older sister called my father and said they needed to go check on
their mother. They found that she was sleeping on the couch in the living
room. She couldn't get up the stairs anymore to go to her bedroom. (Who
knows where she was going to the bathroom.... that was also upstairs. I
didn't inquire too closely.) Sorry, but as the population ages and joints
give way to age, stairs become a pain in the ass.

Jill

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 11:46:13 -0400, "jmcquown" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!
>>>
>>> She did then, doesn't now.
>>>
>>> --
>>What this person doesn't know about my education could fill volumes.
>>Beside
>>the obvious idiot troll, some people prefer apartment living. No lawn and
>>yard to maintain. No worries if an appliance breaks; they'll fix or
>>replace
>>it.
>
> There are apartments in Manhattan where the rent each day is more than
> the Badger's yearly pay, from her pimp.
>
You don't think "Honey Badger" is a woman, do you? More like a morphing
transvestite. My $800 a month apartment in TN would get me something the
size of a walk-in closet in Manhattan. But it *was* an open concept...
built around 1980. Open concept is nothing new, it's just what they show on
HGTV these days.

Jill

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Janet Wilder" > wrote
>>
>> Because there is excellent lighting from recessed ceiling lights and a 5
>> light ceiling fan, we didn't need any table lamps or floor lamps. Another
>> savings.
>
> It must be exceptional. I've never seen ceiling lighting that is better
> and easier on the eyes than a table lamp. I really dislike overhead
> lighting in a home. Even at my office at work, my two windows provide
> enough light that I never turn the overheads on except for really dark
> days.

I'm with you there, Ed. And I don't have to climb on a ladder to change the
bulbs.

Jill

On 10/7/2011 1:08 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
> changes as you age and the joints don't work as well. We've made
> changes so my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are
> thinking of taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue
> to have good health.


We are thinking of moving back to TX and have been looking at some
houses. For the way we live, a ranch style house would be great... but
if we found a 2 story home with master bedroom and space for an office
on the first floor, we would consider that, especially if the upper
story was separately zoned for heat and AC.

George L

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 05:00:51 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Who_me?" > wrote
> >> That is a sweeping and quite inaccurate generalisation.
> >>
> >> I am in my fifties, my wife in her forties, we have no children living
> >> with us and we still prefer a multi story home. I like a house with
> >> plenty of room. Entertainment, office, and dining/cooking areas
> >> downstairs, and bedrooms, gym, media room upstairs.
> >
> > Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
> > changes as you age and the joints don't work as well. We've made changes
> > so my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are thinking of
> > taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue to have good
> > health.
>
> I agree, Ed! I'm reminded of my father's mother, who had a lovely
> multi-storey home built in the early 1920's. Fantastic woodwork, built-in
> china cabinets in the dining room. Mahogany, IIRC. Back around 1983 my
> dad's older sister called my father and said they needed to go check on
> their mother. They found that she was sleeping on the couch in the living
> room. She couldn't get up the stairs anymore to go to her bedroom. (Who
> knows where she was going to the bathroom.... that was also upstairs. I
> didn't inquire too closely.) Sorry, but as the population ages and joints
> give way to age, stairs become a pain in the ass.
>
My next door neighbor bought that house when she was in her early 50s
and didn't give a thought to having no bedrooms and only half a bath
downstairs. When her husband was an invalid, the sun room was turned
into a bedroom. I don't know how bathing happened. After he died,
she fell twice and broke her hip both times. Her dining room was
turned into her bedroom and again, I don't know how bathing happened.
She sold the house last year (after 30+ of being neighbors) because it
simply wasn't practical anymore.


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"Who_me?" > wrote
>>
>> Get back to us in ten years. I prefer a two story, but the practicality
>> changes as you age and the joints don't work as well.
>
> That is EXACTLY why I want to keep a multi story home. Use it or lose it.

To a point, you are correct. There is more to it than just that.


>
>> We've made changes
>> so my wife does not have to use the steps as often, but we are thinking
>> of taking another step to eliminate them. I hope you continue to have
>> good health.
>
> I hope you look at doing the opposite of what you suggest.

Why? It is not knee problems for her, but other medical conditions. I
guess we should have consulted you instead of the cardiac specialists.

As I said, get back to us in ten years. While I wish you good health, shit
happens and you may not be so cocky in the future..