On Oct 2, 11:47*pm, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
> it's going to keep me awake.
> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> kitchen that was not so visible.
> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly

On the other side of the coin, while I am not crazy about open plan
kitchen, I am even more vehemently opposed to those kitchens
'embedded' in the house, with nary a window. I have lived with one of
those kitchens. Think of a galley type which leads off another room,
but have no view of the outside. I once dismissed a house, when
hunting, for this very reason. 'Ey, if Guido 'n' the goons're comin'
aftah me, I wanna KNOW aboudit.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 10:07:11 -0500, Andy > wrote:

>My kitchen is open with windows along the length on one side. There's a
>small kitchen table. The opposite end from the kitchen area is a cozy
>"family room for two" with two Lazy-Z-Boy recliners, shelves for
>cookbooks, TV and bric-a-brac things.
>
>A pocket louvered door to the foyer and two more hinged doors leading to
>the formal dining room. The louvers are angled into the kitchen which
>helps keep any cooking odors in the kitchen. The doors to the dining room
>are double hinged. They open into the dining room with zero effort and
>stay open but going into the kitchen the doors switch to hinges that are
>spring loaded so once in the kitchen, they gently close.

I went to Lowe's today and bought a new Kohler toilet seat (Rutledge
Q3 Advantage K-4734-0), guess what, it's gently closes all by
itself... I shit you not. LOL
http://www.amazon.com/K-4734-0-Quiet.../dp/B000UPO2RC

>Aside from a couple table lamps the house is all recessed lighting. The
>ceilings are only 7'6" high so it's a breeze to change lightbulbs without
>a step ladder. That and in wintertime, it's a little more cost-effective
>than heating an 8' high floors.
>
>Opposite the windows is a used red-brick wall housing an electric BBQ
>grill and fireplace.
>
>All these photos were posted to rfc at one time or another over the
>years. Sometimes describing it doesn't do it the justice I think it
>deserves.
>
>Fireplace:
>http://oi53.tinypic.com/2hh1uhi.jpg
>BBQ grill:
>http://oi53.tinypic.com/f5aemh.jpg
>Cooktop/oven area:
>http://oi51.tinypic.com/10ftlig.jpg
>Opposite end from cooktop area:
>http://oi56.tinypic.com/eisenc.jpg
>
>The kitchen is easily the coziest room in the house. And there's actually
>plenty of traffic space to move around in.
>
>Also the house is hidden in the woods and has 35 windows, 2 being large
>picture windows, so it's definitely open to nature in that sense.
>
>Living room and view of my meadow below (feels like treehouse living):
>http://oi51.tinypic.com/2dvpn6b.jpg
>Screened-in porch and meadow:
>http://oi52.tinypic.com/ztyau1.jpg
>
>Andy

On Oct 3, 3:12*am, "MaryL" > wrote:
> "ItsJoanNotJoann" *wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> On Oct 2, 11:07 pm, sf > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> > > clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> > > to
> > > refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting
> > > that
> > > it's going to keep me awake.
> > > * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> > > seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want
> > > their
> > > kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> > > * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
> > > family
> > > meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
> > > catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
> > > kitchen that was not so visible.
> > > * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> > > having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>
> > Absolutely not! *I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> > there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> > kitchen. *Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> > tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> > Ugh!
>
> I'm not a great fan of the open concept either. *I *think* I'd like a
> kitchen den combo, but not really sure. *I know I don't want the whole
> house open like it was a Wal Mart of K Mart.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I don't like the open concept. *I'm often not very neat when I cook, and I
> like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
> Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and the
> den/living room.
>
> MaryL

You'd hate the new place near me - the island-***-cooktop IS the only
divider between rest of the kitchen and the dining area-living room.
I imagine they'll stick a couple of stools there too and call it a
b'fast room.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:32:20 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

>
> On the other side of the coin, while I am not crazy about open plan
> kitchen, I am even more vehemently opposed to those kitchens
> 'embedded' in the house, with nary a window. I have lived with one of
> those kitchens. Think of a galley type which leads off another room,
> but have no view of the outside. I once dismissed a house, when
> hunting, for this very reason. 'Ey, if Guido 'n' the goons're comin'
> aftah me, I wanna KNOW aboudit.

I've seen kitchens like that in condo's but never in a real house.


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Oct 2, 11:32*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
> > clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
> > to refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting
> > that it's going to keep me awake.
> > * *It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
> > seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
> > kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
> > * *I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
> > family meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and
> > highchairs to catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well
> > wishing for a kitchen that was not so visible.
> > * *Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
> > having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> > Polly
>
> My whole house is open. *Small as it is. *You can see from the front door to
> the back of it. *Or you could. *I finally hung up some sheer curtains in the
> living room. *I don't like opening my front door and having whoever is there
> seeing everything. *We've been robbed three times and the Sheriff said it
> was likely that the robber came to the door and saw what he or she wanted..
> Then came back when we weren't home.
>
> My kitchen is tiny. *Not at all like what you see on TV. *If there is one
> person in it and another goes in, one will want to kill the other in short
> order. *Just doesn't work.

Well then, why do you live there?

On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:32:20 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

>On Oct 2, 11:47*pm, "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer to
>> refrigerator for the next day. *For sure, the show is not so exciting that
>> it's going to keep me awake.
>> * * It causes me to wonder: *all of the people decorating or home-buying
>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. *That is, they want their
>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
>> * * I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a family
>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
>> catch some of the spills and splatters. *I remember well wishing for a
>> kitchen that was not so visible.
>> * * Do you really crave open concept? *Might be convenient if you were
>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>> Polly
>
>On the other side of the coin, while I am not crazy about open plan
>kitchen, I am even more vehemently opposed to those kitchens
>'embedded' in the house, with nary a window. I have lived with one of
>those kitchens. Think of a galley type which leads off another room,
>but have no view of the outside. I once dismissed a house, when
>hunting, for this very reason. 'Ey, if Guido 'n' the goons're comin'
>aftah me, I wanna KNOW aboudit.

I don't blame you, I gotta have a window or two in the kitchen,
big'uns. I have to have windows in every room, even sitting on the
throne I gotta have a view. Guido n' The Goons, a great name for a
dago rock group... hasta have a rockin' gal wid a squeeze-a-box!
Best seat in the house:
http://i56.tinypic.com/1yu64x.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeeze_Box_(song)

On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 19:22:54 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:32:20 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other side of the coin, while I am not crazy about open plan
>> kitchen, I am even more vehemently opposed to those kitchens
>> 'embedded' in the house, with nary a window. I have lived with one of
>> those kitchens. Think of a galley type which leads off another room,
>> but have no view of the outside. I once dismissed a house, when
>> hunting, for this very reason. 'Ey, if Guido 'n' the goons're comin'
>> aftah me, I wanna KNOW aboudit.
>
>I've seen kitchens like that in condo's but never in a real house.

Real house? Condo is not a house style, it's short for condominium, a
legal description for a type of home ownership... any style of
structure can be a condo; high rise, row house, duplex, triplex,
fourplex, and stand alone. I've often seen kitchens with no window,
in every style of home.... very typical with open house plans where
the window is on the the dining area wall way at the opposite side
from the food prep area... often with open house plans the kitchen
food prep area is tucked into a dim corner of an interior wall. I
detest doing kitchen work by artificial light, especially during
daylight hours. I rarely need to turn on my kitchen light during day
time... my kitchen is on a south wall, almost entirely of glass... at
times it's too bright so I draw the curtains by the sink lest I'd need
to work while wearing sunglasses. All the windows in my house are
oversize.

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 02:16:26 -0500, Andy > wrote:

>Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>> I went to Lowe's today and bought a new Kohler toilet seat (Rutledge
>> Q3 Advantage K-4734-0), guess what, it's gently closes all by
>> itself... I shit you not. LOL
>
>
>Sheldon,
>
>Does it work by flushing, to put the "Who didn't put the seat down?"
>complaint to rest?
>
>Kohler makes the best bathroom fixtures. The original owners remodeled the
>house in 1969 and replaced a lot of them with Kohler products. The design
>and quality that went into them made me appreciate the brand right away.
>
>Enjoy the new addition to your throne!
>
>Andy

I've already changed many of the fixtures to Kohler, they make the
best faucets, never need any attention, never drip. Whenever I need a
new fixture if Kohler makes it that's what I'll buy. Yesterday I also
bought a new kitchen sink strainer, chose a Kohler of course. Doesn't
matter that Kohler costs more, it's worth it, in the end it costs
less... have you priced plumbers lately... the cheap is expensive. My
only complaint about the new toilet seat is that the SS mounting
screws are too short (needs to be 1/2" longer), was difficult to reach
the end of the screw for starting the nut... I intend to apprise
them... the nut is a nylon wingnut with only one wing, actually the
nut needs to be longer too and generally larger to be able to get a
grip on it as it goes into a small deep recess under the bowl. Were
it a regular nut I could have made the job easy with an extension
socket. With my big meat hooks I almost gave up and was going to wait
until someone with smaller hands came along. The old seat (American
Standard) used nylon screws that were much longer, easy to get the
thread started and their nylon wing nuts had two wings, made it much
easier to grip and align.

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:39:15 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> The condos in Hawaii are about 900 to 1100 sq feet and the house are
> around 1200 to 2000 sq feet. My guess is that an open floorplan makes
> more sense in smaller abodes and that this trend will be more popular
> where real estate is expensive. Having a lot of walls and
> compartmentalization may be a luxury that we won't be able to afford in
> the future. That's my theory anyway.

I think you're right.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2011-10-03, Storrmmee > wrote:
> > and for the record, catherdral ceiling are MORE not less costly, Lee, who
> > chose against them for that reason
>
> I've worked as a carpenter. My late brother was a master carpenter,
> directing the building of $8M homes. Are you gonna try and tell me
> that it cost more to build a home with a wide open space two stories
> high than one with a 2nd floor and multiple rooms/walls?

Yes. For the same amount of floor space.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
(snippage)
> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
(more snippage)
> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
> Polly
>
>
The "open concept" idea is you get to talk to your guests while you're in
the kitchen. They're sitting at the (almost always granite) island on tall
bar stools, or in the living room, but you can still chat with them while
you cook. Great concept. Except when it comes to making a mess in the
kitchen. I wash pots and pans as I cook but there's always going to be a
mess during and then after dinner. After clearing the table, do I want
people staring at dirty dishes stacked up in the sink? Or watching me load
the dishwasher? Gee, we can talk while I do that! Nope. I don't like the
"open concept" thing.

One thing I've noticed about HGTV on My First Place where they're looking
for apartments, condos, etc. is most of them really don't care about the
kitchen. Oh sure, they all want the high-end appliances and upgrades. But
often they say the don't really cook. So what's this about everything
stainless steel and granite... impressing your friends?

Jill

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 22:47:03 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> > wrote:
>
>> Quite often I have HGTV going late at night while I'm tidying the house,
>> clearing the day's rubble and maybe getting something moved from freezer
>> to
>> refrigerator for the next day. For sure, the show is not so exciting
>> that
>> it's going to keep me awake.
>> It causes me to wonder: all of the people decorating or home-buying
>> seem to demand that they have the Open Concept. That is, they want their
>> kitchen wide open from the front door to the back.
>> I remember well the days when step one in setting the table for a
>> family
>> meal was spreading a shower curtain beneath the table and highchairs to
>> catch some of the spills and splatters. I remember well wishing for a
>> kitchen that was not so visible.
>> Do you really crave open concept? Might be convenient if you were
>> having a pizza party for 500 of your closest friends - but all the time?
>
> Absolutely not! I want a formal dining room and I like old houses, so
> there's no den/family room or whatever they're called attached to the
> kitchen. Can you imagine having to look at a kitchen that hasn't been
> tidied up during a white tablecloth and candle light dinner party?
> Ugh!
>
>
I think it's a fad for younger people who don't really use their kitchens.
I don't crave open concept. Even in the apartment I loved so much, it was
nice to have some separation between the kitchen and the dining/living room.
That apartment had a pass-thru "bar" from the kitchen to the dining area and
living room. But the kitchen was still a separate room. Guests couldn't
see what was going on in the kitchen, whether I was cooking or cleaning up.
It was a small kitchen but the pass-thru setup was ideal

I've never had a "white tablecloth and candle light dinner party". I *do*
plan to use my formal dining room (with china and crystal) for the first
time in years this December. And yes, the kitchen is completely closed off
from the dining room. As it should be, IMHO. Because that means once I
clear the table I don't have to think about the dishes and things waiting to
be washed. And neither will my guests have to see them. We can just sit
there and enjoy ourselves in the completely separate dining/living room. <G>

Jill
Jill

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> Agree now that the kids are gone. We liked having the living room to be
> with our guests (no TV, of course) while the kinds could use the family
> room with their friends. What was ideal 30 years ago, could be change
> now. We've thought about moving to a one floor house, but it does not seem
> to be a good idea right now. Can't find what we really want, not ready to
> tackle building.
Who says you have to build? I don't know where you live but there are
probably lots of single storey homes on the market. (Of course if you want
everything to your specifications you can always do renovations.) Not to
suggest you're old or anything, but you might want to start thinking about a
single storey home. I was so grateful my parents didn't build a house with
stairs. In their later years there is no way they could have managed them.

Jill

Well he is right. An open floorplan is a good idea for small abodes.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 06:38:43 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

> Then we have these cabinets now which don't reach the ceiling. You
> not only lose a ton of storage, but you get to buy all those plastic
> plants and knick-knacks which you get to climb and dust/wash every so
> often. LOOKS nice, but.... a non-functional pain in the rear. Is
> this another builders' cost cut?

I don't get it either. If I bought a house with that configuration,
I'd add a soffit ASAP. I don't mind that I don't have storage all the
way up to the ceiling, but I would mind the dust catching open space.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:19:01 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

> So what's this about everything
> stainless steel and granite... impressing your friends?

YES! And the less they cook, the more high end their appliances are.
Seriously.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Nad" > wrote
>> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
>> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
>> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
>> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking a lot.
>
>>
>> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
>> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
>> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>
> Only a few days a year does our kitchen get hot. In summer, the grill
> does all the hot work, the microwave for veggies and the like. With the
> oven going and a couple of burners, you can make a lot of heat though.
>
> Being open, you can still interact with guests. The down side, during
> the quiet relaxing time of a meal, I don't want to be looking at stack of
> pots and pans and the like.

I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.

Greg

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:09:23 +0000, haleymcadams1
> wrote:

> Well he is right. An open floorplan is a good idea for small abodes.
>
I didn't think about condos (which are apartments you own) when they
started this thread.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:50:22 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
wrote:

> Of course gas ovens create more heat in
> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.

It's amazing how much heat gas anything loses to the rest of the
kitchen. Electric just doesn't do that.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

"jmcquown" > wrote

>> . Can't find what we really want, not ready to tackle building.

> Who says you have to build? I don't know where you live but there are
> probably lots of single storey homes on the market. (Of course if you
> want everything to your specifications you can always do renovations.)

I've looked and nothing in our area is suitable. Two that were nice were
very nice and out of my price range. I'm not looking to buy more expensive
as I get closer to retirement. After 30 years in a house and neighborhood we
like, it is not easy as we will also have to leave "stuff" behind.


>Not to
> suggest you're old or anything, but you might want to start thinking about
> a single storey home. I was so grateful my parents didn't build a house
> with stairs. In their later years there is no way they could have managed
> them.

We are getting older 66/65 and my wife has issues with stairs, thus the
consideration to move.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> I think it's a fad for younger people who don't really use their kitchens.
> I don't crave open concept.

Apparently the open concept was first pushed by Frank Lloyd Wright. For
most purposes he invented the trend. That's long enough ago that it
does not count as a fad. It's a style that phases in and out of
popularity across the generations now.

I've been following this thread.

Our house is an open concept house. There is a definite entrance way
which is set off from the living area with an arch. The living, dining
and kitchen areas are all open to each other. The kitchen is separated
by a "breakfast bar"

When we bought the house we had no furniture as we had been living in
our fifth wheel RVs for 9 years. The open plan house was easy to
furnish. We are two seniors with a little Poodle. The lack of "formal
rooms" was, frankly, a plus.

We do have high ceilings in the living and dining area and a coffered
ceiling in the kitchen. The floors are tile. This makes the house a
little more noisy than I would like, but it's not so bad that we can't
live with it.

Our family is not local so we don't have them all together for meals.
Our everyday table seats 4 or 5 and when we want to have more guests, we
use a long folding table. It works because no one we invite cares about
the layout of the dining room and kitchen. They care about the warmth of
the hosts and the quality of the food.

JMTCW
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

gregz wrote:

> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.
>
> Greg

How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
produced by electricity <shrug>

On 2011-10-05, Goomba > wrote:

> How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
> Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
> produced by electricity <shrug>


Yep.

A BTU is a BTU, regardless if it originates from a tree or a power
station.

nb

On 10/5/2011 5:04 AM, Goomba wrote:
> gregz wrote:
>
>> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.
>> Greg
>
> How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?T
> Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
> produced by electricity <shrug>

The combustion of natural gas or LPG produces a considerable amount of
water in the form of steam. You don't see the steam because it's at a
high temperature. You might see condensation at the vents of the oven.
I'm not sure if the room temperature will be any different when measured
on a thermometer but in some cases, the room might get uncomfortable
because of the water vapor condensing on your skin which releases heat.
It's ain't the heat, it's the humidity.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> The "open concept" idea is you get to talk to your guests while you're in
> the kitchen. They're sitting at the (almost always granite) island on tall
> bar stools, or in the living room, but you can still chat with them while
> you cook. Great concept. Except when it comes to making a mess in the
> kitchen. I wash pots and pans as I cook but there's always going to be a
> mess during and then after dinner. After clearing the table, do I want
> people staring at dirty dishes stacked up in the sink? Or watching me load
> the dishwasher? Gee, we can talk while I do that! Nope. I don't like the
> "open concept" thing.

Also note that a good kitchen sink is big and round. It's like a
parabolic mirror. It takes the vast amount of white noise that comes
out of the water spout and reflects it into a big column hitting you
square in the face. It's the ideal system for wiping out any sort of
background noise. Like the people who are trying to talk to you. They
end up completely oblivious to the fact that you have no idea there's
anyone talking to you because all you can hear in the world is the giant
hiss of the water focused at you by the sink. A good sautee pan
generates the same effect on a much smaller level.

Standing there making a salad it works to stand at the island facing
your friends like you're narating an episode on FoodTV.

Open concept is very comfortable but it is not without issues.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> gregz wrote:
>
>> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens. Greg
>
> How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
> Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
> produced by electricity <shrug>

The burner can give off more hat, especially if you use too small a pan for
the size burner. Electrics will too, but they seem to be less so.

Some convection ovens seem to give off more heat then conventional, but I've
not seen enough to draw a conclusion.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:59:56 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"jmcquown" > wrote
>
>>> . Can't find what we really want, not ready to tackle building.
>
>> Who says you have to build? I don't know where you live but there are
>> probably lots of single storey homes on the market. (Of course if you
>> want everything to your specifications you can always do renovations.)
>
>I've looked and nothing in our area is suitable. Two that were nice were
>very nice and out of my price range. I'm not looking to buy more expensive
>as I get closer to retirement. After 30 years in a house and neighborhood we
>like, it is not easy as we will also have to leave "stuff" behind.
>
>
> >Not to
>> suggest you're old or anything, but you might want to start thinking about
>> a single storey home. I was so grateful my parents didn't build a house
>> with stairs. In their later years there is no way they could have managed
>> them.
>
>We are getting older 66/65 and my wife has issues with stairs, thus the
>consideration to move.

I don't see the point to retiring and moving to a house in the same
neighborhood, if you've been happy where you are for 30 years stay...
renovate! And they do make very nice elevators, my mother used one
for some 20 years, and people don't normally go between floors more
than a couple three times a day... I'm on one floor and it's rare that
I walk back to my bedroom all day until it's time to retire for the
night, and then it's only to take a look out the windows on the other
end of the house during inclement weather or I'd walk outdoors. And
often it's not difficult or expensive to add a main bedroom on the
first floor of a two story home.... and many times as couples age
illness forces them to have separate bedooms anyway. People really
need to be realistic. I always knew that when I retired I would move
to a rural location. My only real problem in finding a house was that
I wanted a ranch and relatively level property, there were plenty of
colonials of all sizes but it was very difficult to find a large
ranch, they were mostly more of a cottage. It took me a full year of
diligent searching to find this place, I drove to this area every
weekend and looked at hundreds of houses over the year. I don't miss
the old neighborhood, it's been ten years and I've never been back.
All I can say Ed, is don't take too long to make up your mind or it
will be made up for you.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 07:57:50 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:09:23 +0000, haleymcadams1
> wrote:
>
>> Well he is right. An open floorplan is a good idea for small abodes.
>>
>I didn't think about condos (which are apartments you own) when they
>started this thread.

Condos are not necessarilly apartment style (many are not), any style
home can be a condominium, it's a form of ownership, not an
architectural style. In many parts of the US instead of calling it a
condo they call it an HOA; condominium and HOA are exactly the same.
It's co-ops (Co-Operatives are another form of ownership) that are
typically apartment style, but they don't necessarilly need to be.
Where I live there's a very large tract of acerage just outside of
town where all styles of stand alone homes recently were built (and
sections are still being built), they are very nice homes in the
$250K-$500K range, they are condos, with a very nice community center
and swimming pool, tennis courts, there are large forever green areas,
and several water features. There are probably 500 homes occupied
now, with at least 500 more planned. Living with rulz is not my style
but many don't mind.

On 5 Oct 2011 15:11:57 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2011-10-05, Goomba > wrote:
>
> > How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
> > Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
> > produced by electricity <shrug>
>
>
> Yep.
>
> A BTU is a BTU, regardless if it originates from a tree or a power
> station.
>
Sure, they lose the same amount of heat if you stand there with the
door open but the fact is that electric burners lose less heat than
gas does. Look it up, numbnuts. I've never understood the
complaining everyone who uses a gas oven has about it heating up the
room, but OBVIOUSLY gas ovens lose more heat too because I DO NOT have
that problem with my fairly OLD electric wall mounted ovens.


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:59:59 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> jmcquown wrote:
> >
> > I think it's a fad for younger people who don't really use their kitchens.
> > I don't crave open concept.
>
> Apparently the open concept was first pushed by Frank Lloyd Wright. For
> most purposes he invented the trend. That's long enough ago that it
> does not count as a fad. It's a style that phases in and out of
> popularity across the generations now.

He was all about built-ins too.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:01:57 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

> I've been following this thread.
>
> Our house is an open concept house. There is a definite entrance way
> which is set off from the living area with an arch. The living, dining
> and kitchen areas are all open to each other. The kitchen is separated
> by a "breakfast bar"
>
> When we bought the house we had no furniture as we had been living in
> our fifth wheel RVs for 9 years. The open plan house was easy to
> furnish. We are two seniors with a little Poodle. The lack of "formal
> rooms" was, frankly, a plus.
>
> We do have high ceilings in the living and dining area and a coffered
> ceiling in the kitchen. The floors are tile. This makes the house a
> little more noisy than I would like, but it's not so bad that we can't
> live with it.
>
> Our family is not local so we don't have them all together for meals.
> Our everyday table seats 4 or 5 and when we want to have more guests, we
> use a long folding table. It works because no one we invite cares about
> the layout of the dining room and kitchen. They care about the warmth of
> the hosts and the quality of the food.
>
I think my preference of formal or informal would vary according to
where I lived. Unlike you, I have lots of family and long time
friends who are like family here. If I had easy indoor/outdoor access
with weather conducive to outdoor entertaining, I'd have a much more
casual floor plan than I do now. When I say an open plan isn't for
me, I am talking about ME and my personal wants/needs. At one point
hubby was trying to get me to move to another city. We looked in the
suburbs at new homes, which at the very the very least had a
kitchen/family room arrangement. I found a couple of them that had
what I'd call open or at least semi-open plans that appealed to me.
What we always looked for was a home with a good circular flow from
room to room, including the outdoor entertainment area.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:37:39 -0400, Honey Badger
> wrote:

> Or get an education so you don't have to live in an apartment, silly!

She did then, doesn't now.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:50:22 +0000 (UTC), gregz >
wrote:

>"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>> "Nad" > wrote
>>> The big plus to an open kitchen, it does even out the heat when cooking.
>>> Small kitchens can get unbearably hot. When it comes to looks, I do not
>>> like the open kitchen. I have a separate dinning room in which the kitchen
>>> cannot be seen. But my kitchen does get hot when cooking a lot.
>>
>>>
>>> At a friends house that has an open kitchen is much cooler and more
>>> comfortable in the kitchen. But one does see the kitchen mess when eating
>>> and the piled up dishes from the living room. Pros and Cons.
>>
>> Only a few days a year does our kitchen get hot. In summer, the grill
>> does all the hot work, the microwave for veggies and the like. With the
>> oven going and a couple of burners, you can make a lot of heat though.
>>
>> Being open, you can still interact with guests. The down side, during
>> the quiet relaxing time of a meal, I don't want to be looking at stack of
>> pots and pans and the like.
>
>I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens.

Gas and electric BTUs are exactly the same... if either stove is
heating up your kitchen excessively then you need to buy better
cookware and learn how to use it. Electric stoves typically waste
more heat due to pots that don't have flat bottoms... gas cooks the
same regardless how bent a pot bottom, just be sure to choose a pot
that covers the flames. Of course if you live where winters are cold
then whatever heat is produced by your stove also heats your abode...
in hot weather cook outdoors. Regardless gas or electric you
shouldn't be using your oven during warm weather... really silly to
bake while your ac is on... believe it or not serious bakers have an
outdoor oven for summer baking, many folks have an entire outdoor
kitchen and they eat outdoors too.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 23:16:39 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
>> gregz wrote:
>>
>>> I have a small kitchen, small house. If it starts to get hot, I open
>>> windows, turn up air conditioner. Of course gas ovens create more heat in
>>> the kitchen. I used to have, and prefer electric ovens. Greg
>>
>> How do you figure that gas ovens create any more heat than electric ones?
>> Seems to me 350 degrees produced by gas is about the same as 350 degrees
>> produced by electricity <shrug>
>
>The burner can give off more hat, especially if you use too small a pan for
>the size burner. Electrics will too, but they seem to be less so.
>
>Some convection ovens seem to give off more heat then conventional, but I've
>not seen enough to draw a conclusion.

Regardless which energy source, how much heat is wasted is primarilly
a product of ones cooking ability. The mark of the best cooks are
those who can get the job done with the lowest heat settings.

On 10/3/2011 3:12 AM, MaryL wrote:

> I don't like the open concept. I'm often not very neat when I cook, and
> I like to have a nice dining room that is separate from the kitchen.
> Likewise, I enjoy having some type of division between the kitchen and
> the den/living room.

My house has a fairly closed kitchen but the living room and dining room
are open. I used to want to put in pocket doors on the two kitchen
openings but I've gotten used to it.

On Oct 5, 8:38*am, Kalmia > wrote:
>
>
> Then we have these cabinets now which don't reach the ceiling. * You
> not only lose a ton of storage, but you get to buy all those plastic
> plants and knick-knacks which you get to climb and dust/wash every so
> often. *LOOKS nice, but.... a non-functional pain in the rear. *Is
> this another builders' cost cut?- Hide quoted text -
>
>
My cabinets don't reach to the ceiling and although I don't have the
storage space if they did, it really doesn't bother me. I have a
collection of cookie jars in that space. Yes, I have to get on a step
ladder to reach them to clean them, but I'd have to have a ladder or
tall enough stool to reach whatever would be squirreled away in the
top of those cabinets. UGH, no plastic flowers please but I do like
the cookie jars.

"ItsJoanNotJoann" <My cabinets don't reach to the ceiling and although I
don't have the
storage space if they did, it really doesn't bother me. I have a
collection of cookie jars in that space. Yes, I have to get on a step
ladder to reach them to clean them, but I'd have to have a ladder or
tall enough stool to reach whatever would be squirreled away in the
top of those cabinets. UGH, no plastic flowers please but I do like
the cookie jars.

Can you stand some corn? Some terrible, terrible corn. There was a
low-level discussion here a few years back during our kitchen remodel. Was
the covered area above the kitchen cabinets called a soffit or a firdown?
( I don't know the spelling but there's probably someone here who worries
about such things.)
Well. When all was said and done, we just barely avoided a serious
problem. When the overhead lights were installed, the cabinet doors just
barely cleared bonking into the lights. Smarta$$ carpenter said: Looks
like the firdown was almost too fer down.
I warned you it was corny . . . but we were all just so glad everything
functioned we drank to it. Polly

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote
>
>>> . Can't find what we really want, not ready to tackle building.
>
>> Who says you have to build? I don't know where you live but there are
>> probably lots of single storey homes on the market. (Of course if you
>> want everything to your specifications you can always do renovations.)
>
> I've looked and nothing in our area is suitable. Two that were nice were
> very nice and out of my price range. I'm not looking to buy more
> expensive as I get closer to retirement. After 30 years in a house and
> neighborhood we like, it is not easy as we will also have to leave "stuff"
> behind.
>
> >Not to suggest you're old or anything, but you might want to start
> >thinking about a single storey home. I was so grateful my parents didn't
> >build a house with stairs. In their later years there is no way they
> >could have managed them.
>
> We are getting older 66/65 and my wife has issues with stairs, thus the
> consideration to move.
>
65 isn't old... not by today's standards. Maybe consider looking in a
different area? No one is chaining you to one spot

I wish my someone had told my parents to leave "stuff" behind when they
moved here I'm still finding stuff in this house. I thought I'd gone
through every closet with a fine-tooth comb. Wrong! Just found a bunch of
old books in the hall closet. I love books, don't get me wrong. But these
are military books my father collected, not my usual have a cup of tea and
read a book sort of material. LOL I'm also going to have a Christmas tree
this year just so I can figure out what Christmas stuff is still in the
attic. I'm sure there are ornaments I haven't seen in 35 years. It's going
to be fun to decorate for a holiday I don't really observe

Jill

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:59:59 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
>> jmcquown wrote:
>> >
>> > I think it's a fad for younger people who don't really use their
>> > kitchens.
>> > I don't crave open concept.
>>
>> Apparently the open concept was first pushed by Frank Lloyd Wright. For
>> most purposes he invented the trend. That's long enough ago that it
>> does not count as a fad. It's a style that phases in and out of
>> popularity across the generations now.
>
> He was all about built-ins too.
>
> --
Happy to give a nod to Frank Lloyed Wright. And I love built-ins.
cabinets, bookshelves, whatever. I still don't want my kitchen open to the
rest of the house.

Jill