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Default The Low Fat High Carb-cholesterol is scary mantra.

So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.

Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.


I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.

chime in....
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"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
> So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
> browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
> is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
> obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.
>
> Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
> words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
> than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.
>
>
> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.
>
> chime in....


I agree.

Cheri


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"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
> So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
> browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
> is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
> obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.
>
> Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
> words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
> than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.
>
>
> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.
>
> chime in....


I have never been advised to eat that way.

Now my natural diet (the one I would choose to eat based on taste) is
naturally low in fat and high in carbs. If I could, day after day I would
eat beans and rice, some other veggies and sometimes some cheese along with.
So you see the only fat in my diet would be coming from the cheese, perhaps
a small amount added to the rice and some butter and milk to mashed
potatoes.

This diet won't work for me because of my diabetes. I can't handle that
many carbs.

What diet works well for me for weight loss? Extreme low calories and fat.
That diet was also low in protein. I did lose the weight but I felt like
crap. I had no energy and couldn't maintain that diet forever. I also had
to exercise to exhaustion and injury so had to give it up.

I do know that eating too many carbs, particularly of the refined variety
like white flour, white rice and sugar are what raise cholesterol and
triglycerides in particular.

I do not think there is a one size fits all diet. I do know a couple of
people who need to eat mainly meat, perhaps with some junk food thrown in.
They seem to survive on precious few vegetables. And if they have to go two
days without meat they get surley. So pretty much the opposite of me.


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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:28:05 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
>
>> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
>> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
>> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.

>
> Yeah, but finding USDA Prime woolly mammoth is nearly impossible these
> days. It's all this frozen, ungraded crap that's been sitting around
> for ages.


So... Just like Karo syrup?


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Default The Low Fat High Carb-cholesterol is scary mantra.

On Aug 15, 7:28*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
> browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
> is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
> obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.
>
> Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
> words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
> than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.
>
> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.
>
> chime in....


What I find most scary is the way the fed govt continues to promote &
subsidise all the grains that are making the country fat & sick. It
makes me mad everytime I see a commercial advising high grain
consumption, esp thru kids cereals.
The govt is resisting the proven evidence in favor of the big
lobbyists - what else is new. Money talks!!
We thank God we found low Carb ways of eating. And our bodies thank
us by feeling so much better.
Nan in DE


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On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 06:27:50 -0700 (PDT), Nan >
wrote:

> what else is new. Money talks!!


Same ole, same ole.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default The Low Fat High Carb-cholesterol is scary mantra.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
> browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
> is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
> obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.
>
> Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
> words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
> than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.
>
>
> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.
>
> chime in....


The fat-is-bad system works by sympathetic magic. You get salt by
burning poison metal with poison gas, therefore you get fat by eating
fat. All of the other statements start at that point. Fat is calorie
dense - Sure but it also keeps new hunger from coming back longer
calorie for calorie. Bulky veggies make you feel full - Sure but low
carb diets focus on bulky veggies so there's no point to the statement.
Studies show fat is bad - Only if you don't also control for carb intake
and start with the assumption that fat is bad in the first place.

The carb-is-bad system works by setting the clock to 1960 and seeing
who's fat. It's the people who ate starchy diets before almost anyone
heard of the low fat mantra. Then start trying it.

There's also the assumption that eating grain is good. Because no one
who gets symptoms from eating grain is to be believed. The actual
situation of bad-for-some does not equal bad-for-all but it absolutely
does not equal good-for-all which was the statement for very many years.

Low carb does not equal paleo but there is a lot of overlap.
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On Aug 16, 9:50*am, Doug Freyburger > wrote:

> Low carb does not equal paleo but there is a lot of overlap.- Hide quoted text -



Well, I've stopped listening to all the so called 'experts',
nutritionists and doctors who still tout the low fat high carb food
pyramid myth.

My health was going slowly downhill and my weight was going up and I
was eating a supposedly healthy diet.... after I decided to quit
wheat and see what happened I started poking around for wheat free
recipes and ideas and then I discovered all the paleo and primal and
ancestral diet sites and boards and information. I really resonated
with Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint approach.

A little light bulb went off in my head. I now eat pretty much only
fresh vegetables, some fruit mostly berries, meats, nuts and nut
butters, almost no grains at all except for quinoa and some wild or
black rice, only full fat dairy products like cheese and yogurt and
a little cream for the coffee. I make my own flax meal 'bread'/
muffins and those 'Oopsie' roll/bread thingies when I am craving a
sandwich or need a bun for a hamburger.

BTW if you guys haven't discovered the Oopsie rolls, they are a hoot
to make and actually really good, they are quite bread like and hold
up exceptionally well to sandwich making. Of course I came up with
my own version which I like MUCH better than the original recipe. I
will share both recipes if anyone is interested.

yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
good, younger, more sprightly, etc.

I still enjoy a glass of wine and a square of dark chocolate as well !

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On Aug 16, 2:33*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:

...

> BTW if you guys haven't discovered the Oopsie rolls, they are a hoot
> to make and actually really good, they are quite bread like and hold
> up exceptionally well to sandwich making. * Of course I came up with
> my own version which I like MUCH better than the original recipe. * I
> will share both recipes if anyone is interested.


I'm interested. Thanks.

> yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
> is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
> have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
> good, younger, more sprightly, etc.
>
> I still enjoy a glass of wine and a square of dark chocolate as well !


Way to go!

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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"Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message
...
> ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
>> browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
>> is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
>> obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.
>>
>> Real food, meat, veggies, fruits, and little or no grains ....in other
>> words a primal or ancestral diet is way better for the human animal
>> than the convenience proccessed stuff people eat today.
>>
>>
>> I know there are people on both sides of the fence here, but in MY
>> life the primal-paleo-ancestral diet is
>> doing amazing things for me weight wise and health wise.
>>
>> chime in....

>
> The fat-is-bad system works by sympathetic magic. You get salt by
> burning poison metal with poison gas, therefore you get fat by eating
> fat. All of the other statements start at that point. Fat is calorie
> dense - Sure but it also keeps new hunger from coming back longer
> calorie for calorie. Bulky veggies make you feel full - Sure but low
> carb diets focus on bulky veggies so there's no point to the statement.
> Studies show fat is bad - Only if you don't also control for carb intake
> and start with the assumption that fat is bad in the first place.
>
> The carb-is-bad system works by setting the clock to 1960 and seeing
> who's fat. It's the people who ate starchy diets before almost anyone
> heard of the low fat mantra. Then start trying it.
>
> There's also the assumption that eating grain is good. Because no one
> who gets symptoms from eating grain is to be believed. The actual
> situation of bad-for-some does not equal bad-for-all but it absolutely
> does not equal good-for-all which was the statement for very many years.
>
> Low carb does not equal paleo but there is a lot of overlap.


For many years in UK the ptb have been advocating high carb for
diabetics Recently that has changed and they are saying now that low carb
is best! Heh who woulda thunk it? They now say that the reason for
allowing high carb and low fat was that it kept the calories down and the
insulin took care of that.

I wonder how many people went blind or lost limbs because of that?


--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheros.or.uk



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"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...

> BTW if you guys haven't discovered the Oopsie rolls, they are a hoot
> to make and actually really good, they are quite bread like and hold
> up exceptionally well to sandwich making. Of course I came up with
> my own version which I like MUCH better than the original recipe. I
> will share both recipes if anyone is interested.


YES Please!!!

> yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
> is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
> have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
> good, younger, more sprightly, etc.
>
> I still enjoy a glass of wine and a square of dark chocolate as well !


Well done!!!

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheros.or.uk

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"Ophelia" > wrote:
> "ImStillMags" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> BTW if you guys haven't discovered the Oopsie rolls, they are a hoot
>> to make and actually really good, they are quite bread like and hold
>> up exceptionally well to sandwich making. Of course I came up with
>> my own version which I like MUCH better than the original recipe. I
>> will share both recipes if anyone is interested.

>
> YES Please!!!
>
>> yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
>> is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
>> have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
>> good, younger, more sprightly, etc.
>>
>> I still enjoy a glass of wine and a square of dark chocolate as well !

>
> Well done!!!


Red wine and dark chocolate are not supposed to mix, according to the
experts (too many potential strong inter-reactions between complexities, or
something like that). It's such a great pairing it makes you wonder what
planet they live on.
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On Aug 16, 12:34*pm, Hackmatack > wrote:
>
> Red wine and dark chocolate are not supposed to mix, according to the
> experts (too many potential strong inter-reactions between complexities, or
> something like that). It's such a great pairing it makes you wonder what
> planet they live on.- Hide quoted text -
>


If you guys have not read any of Mark Sissons blog....I highly
recommend it. Here are a couple of articles to get you
started.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-...diabetes-risk/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/protein-kidneys/

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On 8/16/2011 1:33 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
> yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
> is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
> have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
> good, younger, more sprightly, etc. I still enjoy a glass of wine and
> a square of dark chocolate as well !


If this way of eating is working for you, then you keep going. If we
woke up 20K years ago, we would not be consuming the blue box mac &
cheese, margarine, Twinkies or coca-cola. Was our bodies intended to
eat that? Probably not, so I try to avoid eating processed foods. I
lost weight eating meat, fish, poultry, eggs, cheese, yogurt, fruit and
vegetables, and I eat whole fat. I currently weigh 158, so I still have
a few more pounds to lose. I wish you the best of luck on your way of
eating.

Becca
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On 08/17/2011 09:37 AM, Ema Nymton wrote:
> On 8/16/2011 1:33 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>> yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
>> is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
>> have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
>> good, younger, more sprightly, etc. I still enjoy a glass of wine and
>> a square of dark chocolate as well !

>
> If this way of eating is working for you, then you keep going. If we
> woke up 20K years ago, we would not be consuming the blue box mac &
> cheese, margarine, Twinkies or coca-cola.


And we died by the time we were 40. :-)

Serene
--
http://www.momfoodproject.com


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On Aug 17, 10:40*am, Serene Vannoy > wrote:

> And we died by the time we were 40. :-)



That is the usual argument. The reason people died at a younger age
was this.......medicine and the advances in medical practice.

Life was a bit harder. We were still hunter gatherers. If someone
was injured while hunting, or got a cut infected, or broke a bone or a
tooth, too bad. Only so much the medicine man or witch doctor or
wise woman could do.

Longevity increased as medicine progressed.

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On Aug 17, 9:37*am, Ema Nymton > wrote:
> On 8/16/2011 1:33 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > yada yada, etc.etc........on the food lies......the bottom line for me
> > is that I have lost over 50 pounds and still dropping, I eat GREAT, I
> > have no more joint pain, back pain, I sleep like a baby, I feel really
> > good, younger, more sprightly, etc. I still enjoy a glass of wine and
> > a square of dark chocolate as well !

>
> If this way of eating is working for you, then you keep going. *If we
> woke up 20K years ago, we would not be consuming the blue box mac &
> cheese, margarine, Twinkies *or coca-cola. Was our bodies intended to
> eat that? *Probably not, so I try to avoid eating processed foods. I
> lost weight eating meat, fish, poultry, eggs, cheese, yogurt, fruit and
> vegetables, and I eat whole fat. I currently weigh 158, so I still have
> a few more pounds to lose. *I wish you the best of luck on your way of
> eating.
>
> Becca


Thanks Becca. I don't eat that stuff either...............not since I
wised up. ;-)

I'm pretty happy with what is going on with my body, and it seems to
be very happy with what I'm feeding it nowadays.
The big plus is that all the great things the 'health experts' say is
bad for you, I'm eating with gusto and getting slimmer and
more healthy every day.

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On 08/17/2011 11:18 AM, ImStillMags wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:40 am, Serene > wrote:
>
>> And we died by the time we were 40. :-)

>
>
> That is the usual argument. The reason people died at a younger age
> was this.......medicine and the advances in medical practice.
>
> Life was a bit harder. We were still hunter gatherers. If someone
> was injured while hunting, or got a cut infected, or broke a bone or a
> tooth, too bad. Only so much the medicine man or witch doctor or
> wise woman could do.
>
> Longevity increased as medicine progressed.
>


Sure, and it's still meaningless to say that we should eat what we ate
way back then, when life was completely different and our bodies did
completely different things.

Serene


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Serene Vannoy wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>
>> That is the usual argument. The reason people died at a younger age
>> was this.......medicine and the advances in medical practice.

>
>> Life was a bit harder. We were still hunter gatherers. If someone
>> was injured while hunting, or got a cut infected, or broke a bone or a
>> tooth, too bad. Only so much the medicine man or witch doctor or
>> wise woman could do.

>
>> Longevity increased as medicine progressed.


Life expectancy increased. That's not quite the same thing as maximum
life span. The few who lucked out still lived to 80 or longer. In the
few hunter gatherer societies tha tstill exist some make it to 80 or
older.

In the modern world the record for maximum life span is 122 years.
There are history books booking back very far that claim there have been
many who lived to older than 100.

Given the populations involved it appears that the maximum human life
span has not changed at all since the stone age. There has just been
better medicine and a higher total population to allow some people to be
very far out on the bell curve. Many can live into their 80s and 90s,
some into the 100s and every decade after than the curve continues so
that many billions are needed to get more in each decade after that.

Right now there are several people alive in the world who are 114
according to wikipedia. The record of 122 by Jeanne Clement of France
is in no danger of getting broken any time soon.

> Sure, and it's still meaningless to say that we should eat what we ate
> way back then, when life was completely different and our bodies did
> completely different things.


Because of the difference between life expectancy and maximum life span
it does have meaning. Humans had time in the stone age to evolve to
adjust significantly to their diet. It takes about 5 million years for
evolution to put a species into its optimal diet and humans have used
fire for between 1 and 2 million years and were hunter gatherers for
nearly 5 million. We're evolved hunter gatherers.

Animal herding started very roughly 20K years ago and didn't much change
the diet. Grain farming started roughly 10-15K years ago and did change
the diet a lot. We have not had time to evolve in response.

How much should our diets fit the paleolithic pattern? Jeanne Clement
who lived to the age of 122 at a French diet that included bread.
Clearly it's possible to be healthy with modern food. But it's not the
first guess to take.
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On Aug 17, 12:38*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
> On 08/17/2011 11:18 AM, ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 10:40 am, Serene > *wrote:

>
> >> And we died by the time we were 40. :-)

>
> > That is the usual argument. * The reason people died at a younger age
> > was this.......medicine and the advances in medical practice.

>
> > Life was a bit harder. *We were still hunter gatherers. *If someone
> > was injured while hunting, or got a cut infected, or broke a bone or a
> > tooth, *too bad. *Only so much the medicine man or witch doctor or
> > wise woman could do.

>
> > Longevity increased as medicine progressed.

>
> Sure, and it's still meaningless to say that we should eat what we ate
> way back then, when life was completely different and our bodies did
> completely different things.
>
> Serene
>
> --http://www.momfoodproject.com


Well, we are not going to eat the same exact things we at as cavemen,
but the principal has not changed as our genetics have not changed
since then. Fresh vegetables, fruit and meats are still the best
building blocks for the human body. Grains not so much.


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On 08/17/2011 02:44 PM, ImStillMags wrote:

>
> Well, we are not going to eat the same exact things we at as cavemen,
> but the principal has not changed as our genetics have not changed
> since then.


False.

> Fresh vegetables, fruit and meats are still the best
> building blocks for the human body. Grains not so much.


False.

Serene
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On Aug 17, 3:28*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:


Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. I
could provide you some studies from
universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
well.

--------------

(snip)

There’s a reason grains are first and foremost on the list of foods to
avoid when following the Primal Blueprint: they are completely and
utterly pointless in the context of a healthy diet. In fact, if your
average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid
in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop
drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains.
Period. Full stop. They really are that bad.

I’ve mentioned this time and again, but the fundamental problem with
grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human
animal has yet to adapt to consuming. In fact, cereal grains figured
prominently in the commencement of the New Stone Age; grains were
right there on the forefront of the agricultural revolution. Hell,
they were the agricultural revolution – einkorn wheat, emmer, millet,
and spelt formed the backbone of Neolithic farming. They could be
stored for months at a time, they were easy enough to grow in massive
enough quantities to support a burgeoning population, and they
promoted the construction of permanent settlements. Oh, and they were
easily hoarded, meaning they were probably an early form of currency
(and, by extension, a potential source of income inequality). And
here’s the kicker: they were harsh, tough things that probably didn’t
even taste very good. It also took a ton of work just to make them
edible, thanks to their toxic anti-nutrients.

Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.Living things generally do not want to
be consumed by other living things. Being digested, for the most part,
tends to interrupt survival, procreation, propagation of the species –
you know, standard stuff that fauna and flora consider pretty
important. To avoid said consumption, living things employ various
self defense mechanisms. Rabbits, for example, with their massive
ears, considerable fast-twitch muscle fibers, and nasty claws, can
usually hear a predator coming, outrun (out-hop?) nearly anything, and
(in a pinch) slash a tender belly to shreds. Blue whales are too big
to fit into your mouth, while porcupines are walking reverse
pincushions. Point is, animals have active defense mechanisms. They
run, fight, jump, climb, fly, sting, bite, and even appeal to our
emotions (if you’ve ever seen a puppy beg for a treat with sad eyes,
you know that isn’t just accidental cuteness) in order to survive. All
the while, predators are constantly evolving and generating
adaptations.

Plants, though, are passive organisms without the ability to move,
think, and react (for the most part). They must employ different
tactics to ensure propagation, and they generally have to rely on
outside forces to spread their seed. And so various methods are
“devised” to dissuade consumption long enough for the seed to get to
where it’s going. Nuts have those tough shells, and grains have the
toxic anti-nutrients, lectins, gluten, and phytates. (Of course there
are some obvious exceptions. Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and
delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds,
preferably into some fertile soil. The seed stays intact throughout
the digestive process; it is indigestible by design. No seed “wants”
to be digested, because this would defeat the purpose. They “want” to
be swallowed, or borne by the wind, or carried by a bee to the next
flower, but they do not want to be digested.)

Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents,
and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however,
cannot. Perhaps if grains represented a significant portion of our
ancestral dietary history, things might be a bit different. Some of us
can digest dairy, and we’ve got the amylase enzyme present in our
saliva to break down starches if need be, but we simply do not have
the wiring necessary to mitigate the harmful effects of lectins,
gluten, and phytate.

Lectins are bad. They bind to insulin receptors, attack the stomach
lining of insects, bind to human intestinal lining, and they seemingly
cause leptin resistance. And leptin resistance predicts a “worsening
of the features of the metabolic syndrome independently of obesity”.
Fun stuff, huh?

Gluten might be even worse. Gluten, found in wheat, rye, and barley,
is a composite of the proteins giladin and glutenin. Around 1% of the
population are celiacs, people who are completely and utterly
intolerant of any gluten. In celiacs, any gluten in the diet can be
disastrous. We’re talking compromised calcium and vitamin D3 levels,
hyperparathyroidism, bone defects. Really terrible stuff. And it gets
worse: just because you’re not celiac doesn’t mean you aren’t
susceptible to the ravages of gluten. As Stephan highlights, one study
showed that 29% of asymptomatic (read: not celiac) people nonetheless
tested positive for anti-gliadin IgA in their stool. Anti-gliadin IgA
is an antibody produced by the gut, and it remains there until it’s
dispatched to ward off gliadin – a primary component of gluten.
Basically, the only reason anti-gliadin IgA ends up in your stool is
because your body sensed an impending threat – gluten. If gluten poses
no threat, the anti-gliadin IgA stays in your gut. And to think, most
Americans eat this stuff on a daily basis.

Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-
unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we
need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last,
remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.

What, then, is the point to all this grain madness? Is there a good
reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that
is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their
caloric intake?

The answer is unequivocally, undeniably no. We do not need grains to
survive, let alone thrive. In fact, they are naturally selected to
ward off pests, whether they be insects or hominids. I suggest we take
the hint and stop eating them.

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On Aug 17, 3:52*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> On Aug 17, 3:28*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:


Here's another article that explains why some cultures tolerate grains
better than others.


http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soake...mented-grains/
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ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Aug 17, 3:28*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>
>
> Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. I
> could provide you some studies from
> universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
> well.


Complete load of crap there.
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On Aug 17, 4:00*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > On Aug 17, 3:28 pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:

>
> > Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. * I
> > could provide you some studies from
> > universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
> > well.

>
> Complete load of crap there.


OK. Everone has their own way of eating. If you do well with
grains, I'm happy for you. I don't and it seems that there are more
and more people who are finding out that when they eliminate wheat and
most other grains from their diets, their health improves greatly.

Just sayin'. :-)


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ImStillMags > wrote:
> On Aug 17, 4:00 pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
>> ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> On Aug 17, 3:28 pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:

>>
>>> Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. I
>>> could provide you some studies from
>>> universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
>>> well.

>>
>> Complete load of crap there.

>
> OK. Everone has their own way of eating. If you do well with
> grains, I'm happy for you. I don't and it seems that there are more
> and more people who are finding out that when they eliminate wheat and
> most other grains from their diets, their health improves greatly.
>
> Just sayin'. :-)


It's hard to argue with success if a grain-free diet is working for you.
But is he really saying that Our Daily Bread has been an evolutionary
mistake?
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On Aug 17, 4:09*pm, Hackmatack > wrote:
> ImStillMags > wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 4:00 pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >> ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> >>> On Aug 17, 3:28 pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:

>
> >>> Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. * I
> >>> could provide you some studies from
> >>> universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
> >>> well.

>
> >> Complete load of crap there.

>
> > OK. * Everone has their own way of eating. * If you do well with
> > grains, I'm happy for you. * I don't and it seems that there are more
> > and more people who are finding out that when they eliminate wheat and
> > most other grains from their diets, their health improves greatly.

>
> > Just sayin'. *:-)

>
> It's hard to argue with success if a grain-free diet is working for you.
> But is he really saying that Our Daily Bread has been an evolutionary
> mistake?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


NO.....he's saying that it should not be the base of the food pyramid
or the base of your daily diet.
Especially processed grain food products.

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Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>How much should our diets fit the paleolithic pattern? Jeanne Clement
>who lived to the age of 122 at a French diet that included bread.
>Clearly it's possible to be healthy with modern food. But it's not the
>first guess to take.


Grains, especially wheat have been around for long enough the
human species has (in my opinion) co-evolved with them. If there's
a single foodstuff that is at the dead-center of human nutrition
it is wheat, or more generally the grain-forming grasses.

There's no reason in the world to be surprised that persons of
longevity have eaten wheat.

Steve
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On 2011-08-17, ImStillMags > wrote:

> and more people who are finding out that when they eliminate wheat and
> most other grains from their diets, their health improves greatly.


I'm not sure I buy into this growing chic trend. Grains have been the
"staff of life" since mankind changed from a hunter/gatherer to an
agrarian being. If we seem to be healthier by eschewing wheat/grains,
we should damn sure be taking a look at the state of our wheat/grains
production, not how we as animals may be reacting to what's nurtured
and sustained us for millennia.

nb
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On 2011-08-17, Hackmatack > wrote:

> It's hard to argue with success if a grain-free diet is working for you.
> But is he really saying that Our Daily Bread has been an evolutionary
> mistake?


No, it's saying the current toxic methods of grain production on this
planet are killing us.

nb


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notbob > wrote:
> On 2011-08-17, Hackmatack > wrote:
>
>> It's hard to argue with success if a grain-free diet is working for you.
>> But is he really saying that Our Daily Bread has been an evolutionary
>> mistake?

>
> No, it's saying the current toxic methods of grain production on this
> planet are killing us.
>
> nb


No, he's saying that grains have *always* been toxic.
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ImStillMags > wrote:

>So.....let's discuss the way the American public has been advertised,
>browbeaten and 'advised' into eating a low fat, high carb, cholesterol
>is scary diet for the past 30 years......and that correlation to the
>obesity epidemic and accompanying health problems.


Two things.

I guess I'd be more scared if I actually believed Americans were
eating a low-fat diet, but overall, I don't think they are.

Secondly: if you believe the current Daily Value for fat (which is
65 grams) is too low, what should it be? 80 grams? 110 grams?

Or is 65 about right?


Steve
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On 2011-08-17, Hackmatack > wrote:

> No, he's saying that grains have *always* been toxic.


Horsecrap!! We've been subsisting primarily on grains for 10
millinium and we now live longer than ever. To deny it is to ignore
our entire history as human beings.

nb
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notbob > wrote:
> On 2011-08-17, Hackmatack > wrote:
>
>> No, he's saying that grains have *always* been toxic.

>
> Horsecrap!! We've been subsisting primarily on grains for 10
> millinium and we now live longer than ever. To deny it is to ignore
> our entire history as human beings.
>
> nb


Jared Diamond, in "Guns, Germs and Steel," has argued that grains and
seeds, because they could be stored over growing seasons and famine
intervals, were instrumental in fostering the growth of basic human
technologies. And because they were portable, but were sensitive to diurnal
light levels for germination, they could only be transported successfully
equitorially -- in other words, humans could take their seed corn east or
west and rely on predictable crop yields, but not north and south into
radically different climates that prevented reliable germination. From this
he extrapolates the technological success of European societies spreading
from the fertile crescent to northwest Europe, as opposes to the doomed
north-south fate of pre-Columbian South America.

None of this addresses the nutritional consequences of a farming vs.
hunting culture, but it does suggest how vitally central grains have been
to human development.
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Hackmatack > wrote:

>Jared Diamond, in "Guns, Germs and Steel," has argued that grains and
>seeds, because they could be stored over growing seasons and famine
>intervals, were instrumental in fostering the growth of basic human
>technologies. And because they were portable, but were sensitive to diurnal
>light levels for germination, they could only be transported successfully
>equitorially -- in other words, humans could take their seed corn east or
>west and rely on predictable crop yields, but not north and south into
>radically different climates that prevented reliable germination. From this
>he extrapolates the technological success of European societies spreading
>from the fertile crescent to northwest Europe, as opposes to the doomed
>north-south fate of pre-Columbian South America.


There was nothing "doomed" about pre-Columbian South America until
a bunch of Europeans showed up

Steve


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Steve Pope > wrote:
> Hackmatack > wrote:
>
>> Jared Diamond, in "Guns, Germs and Steel," has argued that grains and
>> seeds, because they could be stored over growing seasons and famine
>> intervals, were instrumental in fostering the growth of basic human
>> technologies. And because they were portable, but were sensitive to diurnal
>> light levels for germination, they could only be transported successfully
>> equitorially -- in other words, humans could take their seed corn east or
>> west and rely on predictable crop yields, but not north and south into
>> radically different climates that prevented reliable germination. From this
>> he extrapolates the technological success of European societies spreading
>> from the fertile crescent to northwest Europe, as opposes to the doomed
>> north-south fate of pre-Columbian South America.

>
> There was nothing "doomed" about pre-Columbian South America until
> a bunch of Europeans showed up
>
> Steve


Diamond's point exactly.
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On 2011-08-18, Hackmatack > wrote:

> Jared Diamond, in "Guns, Germs and Steel," has argued that grains and
> seeds, because they could be stored over growing seasons and famine
> intervals, were instrumental in fostering the growth of basic human
> technologies. And because they were portable, but were sensitive to diurnal
> light levels for germination, they could only be transported successfully
> equitorially -- in other words, humans could take their seed corn east or
> west and rely on predictable crop yields, but not north and south into
> radically different climates that prevented reliable germination. From this
> he extrapolates the technological success of European societies spreading
> from the fertile crescent to northwest Europe, as opposes to the doomed
> north-south fate of pre-Columbian South America.


Fascinationg series, and I don't disagree. Multi-culturalism is what
fosters and germinates new ideas, a basic tenent of sociology.
Mono-cultures stagnate and do not progress. Seen any Inuit
smartphones, lately?

> None of this addresses the nutritional consequences of a farming vs.
> hunting culture, but it does suggest how vitally central grains have been
> to human development.


Also agreed. Trade encourages cross culture pollination. But, as you
point out, not relevant to the importance of grains. Wheat and rice
support 95% of the world's ppl and has for over ten thousand years.
To deny this is absurd. If we are becoming allergic to grains, it's
not due to evolution, it's due to the toxic crap they are now growing.

nb
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meh > wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:00:53 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:


>>ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:


>>> Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website. I
>>> could provide you some studies from
>>> universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it quite
>>> well.


>>Complete load of crap there.


>That was my immediate reaction as well.


It certainly isn't consensus-based (which is okay) but I suspect it
isn't science-based either.

Steve
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On 18 Aug 2011 00:56:19 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> If we are becoming allergic to grains, it's
> not due to evolution, it's due to the toxic crap they are now growing.


For one thing, the gluten content in wheat has been increased over the
years due to selective breeding. Adding more gluten to the mix used
to be what bread makers talked about (here in rfc) in the past - but I
haven't seen that mentioned in years.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila
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meh wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:00:53 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > ImStillMags wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> >> On Aug 17, 3:28*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's a portion of an entry on grains from Mark Sisson's website.

> I >> could provide you some studies from
> >> universities and professors as well.....but he encapsulates it

> quite >> well.
> >
> > Complete load of crap there.

>
> That was my immediate reaction as well.


Fact is, some people overdo the wheat breads but to say that 'grains
are bad for you' is innaccurate. Some small segment may have wheat
intolerance issues but it is not common. If's a fad more often than
not to say 'I'm allergic to wheat'. A friend of mine was convinced she
was allergic to wheat but loved bread. I made her a loaf. No issues.
It was the preservatives in cheap store bread she was reacting to. My
home made bread has none of that in it.

Everything in balance. You are no more healthy on a predominantly
grain diet, than a grain free one.

--

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