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A tip for wait staff
Dave Smith wrote:
>Brooklyn1 wrote: >>Dave Smith wrote: >>>Brooklyn1 wrote: >>>>Dave Smith wrote: >>>>> >>>>> People who work on commission and tips basically >>>>> get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted. >>>> >>>> That's not necessarilly true. >>> >>> How is in not necessarily true? >> >> Many people don't tip. duh > >However, the fact that some people do not tip is part of my argument >against tipping. People should be paid by their employers for the work >they do and should not have to rely on the generousity of their >customers. Don't you realize that under the socialized system you propose the restaurant proprietor would be encouraged to steal from the servers through underpayment plus there'd be no incentive for the servers to exert themselves... and the quality of food would go down likewise. You just refuse to get it... with service workers the patron IS their employer... a waitperson is no different from a hairdresser or cab driver, they work a station for tips from their *customers* (who are in fact their present employer), the better they perform the more they earn. You're probably one of those cheap *******s who brings out a calculator to figure a minimum tip... holy shit if you gyp yourself out of .001%... I bet you're one of those misers who rounds *down*. I bet yoose cheap *******s who resent having to tip anyone never bought your mother a decent gift on her birthday for all the times she served your dinner and wiped your ass. You ungrateful POS. Servers who are willing to work hard make a damn good living, but they earn it... WTF should their superlative efforts unjustly reward the proprietor and the lazy servers, and at their own loss... that's called "spreading the wealth around". When any business pays workers the same regardless their production overall production decreases, when certain workers of the same occupation are paid more clandestinely chaos ensues. Tipping is the great equalizer, it's what keeps the service industries functioning honestly and at the highest possible standard. I've been to countries where there is no tipping, guess what, there is virtually no service... well there's lip service. I consider tipping a privilege, I like to tip, and I like to tip well... that's what ensures I'll receive excellent service and superiour food and drink. If I felt the cost of eating out is a bit steep due to the tipping I'd never eat out, I'd always eat at home... the cost of eating out is always steep even without the tip... the tip is a very small portion to pay for the service I receive. I eat at the same restaurants regularly, I go to the same barber regularly too, if I didn't tip and tip well I'd be a ****ing imbecile to ever return. People who don't tip are the same moochers as those who when they attend dinner at someone's home don't bring a host/ess gift... they wonder why their name gets deleted from the list(s). |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 5:38 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:32:46 -0400, Dave Smith > > wrote: > >> >> Counter service is not service. I presume they are being paid a wage. >> > > i think you're talking about a McDonald's type of counter service > (which is window service, even though it has been moved inside) vs. > eating at the counter in the old fashioned style restaurant we used to > call a coffee shop. > Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my purchase. |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 5:43 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> Many people don't tip. duh >> >> However, the fact that some people do not tip is part of my argument >> against tipping. People should be paid by their employers for the work >> they do and should not have to rely on the generousity of their >> customers. > > Don't you realize that under the socialized system you propose the > restaurant proprietor would be encouraged to steal from the servers > through underpayment plus there'd be no incentive for the servers to > exert themselves... and the quality of food would go down likewise. If employers are going to steal from their employees they are going to do it one way or another. That is why there are labour laws and agencies to enforce them. I find it hard to accept that it is only one field of employment where employees should be given a lower hourly wage and be expected to top it off with tips because their employer is going to try to steal from them. I don`t buy the effort about tipping being more of an incentive than a percentage tacked on to the bill. It still leaves it to the server to push for the up-sell. > Tipping is the great equalizer, it's what > keeps the service industries functioning honestly and at the highest > possible standard. I've been to countries where there is no tipping, > guess what, there is virtually no service... well there's lip service. Oh posh. It is tips and tip ingratiating behaviour that servers like my nephew make a pretty good living on and more or less part time. I too have been to countries where there is no tipping and service was certainly acceptable. There is a difference between coming to my table at the right time and pestering me with tip soliciting behaviour. > if I didn't tip and tip well I'd be a ****ing imbecile to ever return. > People who don't tip are the same moochers as those who when they > attend dinner at someone's home don't bring a host/ess gift... they > wonder why their name gets deleted from the list(s). You are right. Non tippers are mooches, and that is why I have trouble with servers depending on people like them for their wages. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:11:09 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: >On 25/07/2011 1:39 PM, Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: >>> I have said in the past that I would be willing to pay higher prices so >>> that the restaurant could pay a high enough wage that their staff did >>> not need to depend on the charity of their customers. I keep seeing more >>> and more places with tip jars. Those people at coffee shops and bakeries >>> aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the >>> type of service you need to tip for. >> >> Agreed completely. People who say that folks wouldn't spend more >> because the cost of the meal would go up seem to miss that they are >> already spending more by tipping and it just gets the restaurant off the >> hook for paying their staff. >> > > >Besides, it is not always the waiter's fault if service is slow. That >is generally the fault of the kitchen staff, though experienced waiters >may bully newer services by slipping their orders in ahead or taking >orders meant for another table. > >We were had dinner in a restaurant on Saturday night. Our food was slow >coming. I don't blame the waitress. I was sitting facing thee kitchen >and there was only one guy in. The thing is, due to our being out of >town and having to get back home because of the dog, we ate early, and >there is a good chance that while there was only one guy in the kitchen >at that time, they had someone coming in later for the dinner rush. > >It's not the server's fault if the food isn't good. Nor is it the >server's fault if some of the things on the plate are hot and others >aren't, like a recent experience where my potato was barely warm, but >everything else was nice and hot. > >If people really think that serving food should be a commission sort of >remuneration, then make it a set percentage and tack it onto the bill >and then going right to the server. If they feel that the the service >was outstanding, they can leave extra > > >But this crap I have been hearing lately about how if customers can >afford to eat in a restaurant they can afford to tip, and that the >percentage should be 18 instead of 15 because of inflation????? Nuts to >that. Why are you discussing an out of town trailer trash chain joint where you'll obviously never return, unless that's your speed. I never have any of the problems you've enumerated at my regular haunts. I avoid chains at all costs, it's rare to find the same staff two weeks in a row... when traveling I'll either choose a deli or pick a few things from a stupidmarket to bring back to my room. |
A tip for wait staff
sf > wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith > wrote: > >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >> have been $4.50. > >15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:34:18 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: >On 25/07/2011 2:27 PM, sf wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith >> > wrote: >> >>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >>> have been $4.50. >> >> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a >> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more). >> > > >For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service >has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine >back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always >getting a full 15% tip. sf must have lived in some back water Deliverence town. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:35:18 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > On 25/07/2011 4:37 PM, sf wrote: > > >> > >> It was his loss, and no, I did not give him a larger tip to make up for > >> the $20 her screwed himself out of. I tried to tell him that he was > >> giving me too much change and he was incredibly rude about it. > >> > > > > You may have felt superior, but that you're "wrong game" is too > > childish for a grown man. You could have told him clearly that the > > travelers check was in Canadian dollars and he was figuring in US, if > > that was indeed the case. > > I tried. I pointed out that the had made a mistake. Not once, not twice, > but three times. The first time I suggested that he had made a mistake > I thought that he might have realized what it was, but he was so snippy > in his assertion that he had checked his figures. I tried a second time > and got the "I told you I checked my figures .... " Then the third > time he just cut off me off. If you used the very words you claimed with no other explanation other than "you're wrong", then it's no wonder he got defensive. > > I bet you that a lot of people would have just pocketed the money and > left. Few would bother a second time. I tried a third time. I don`t > know what the hell his problem was, but I think that little exchange as > we paid the bill is a pretty good demonstration of his attitude. His problem was you. If the check had been in the dollars he was calculating in he was right and you were a nut. > > > It was a nice place, nice view of the harbour, nice furnishings, but the > food wasn`t great. I can`t ever remember a waiter being that rude to me, > and I was..... Maybe I should have just raised my voice and said `No you > f&?%ing idiot. I have been trying to tell you that you game me $20 too > much change. But if you insist...... `` > Why would you need to raise your voice or say any of that. Just say: "You gave me too much change because the check was Canadian dollars not US". Period. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On Jul 25, 3:26 pm, Ranée at Arabian Knits >
wrote: > In article > >, > > aem > wrote: > > What's the origin of that attitude? The counter person serves your > > drink, takes your order, serves it, cleans it up, and may take your > > payment as well, just like a table server. How does that not earn a > > tip? Because they walk a shorter distance? Your attitude makes no > > sense. > > The lady at the MAC counter does more work, in terms or service, than > the average coffee shop barista does per customer, yet we are not > obliged to tip them. What's a MAC counter? Smith is talking about the counter in an eating establishment and has offered no reason to treat table servers different from counter servers who do basically the same job. Is that what you're saying, too? -aem |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:22:20 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> sf > wrote: > > >On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith > > wrote: > > > >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would > >> have been $4.50. > > > >15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. > > What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long > as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. That's a total load of crap. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:44:11 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > On 25/07/2011 5:38 PM, sf wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:32:46 -0400, Dave Smith > > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Counter service is not service. I presume they are being paid a wage. > >> > > > > i think you're talking about a McDonald's type of counter service > > (which is window service, even though it has been moved inside) vs. > > eating at the counter in the old fashioned style restaurant we used to > > call a coffee shop. > > > > Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and > then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my > purchase. Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote:
>> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and >> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my >> purchase. > > Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. > Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip jar on the counter. |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 6:51 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> It was his loss, and no, I did not give him a larger tip to make up for >>>> the $20 her screwed himself out of. I tried to tell him that he was >>>> giving me too much change and he was incredibly rude about it. >>>> >>> >>> You may have felt superior, but that you're "wrong game" is too >>> childish for a grown man. You could have told him clearly that the >>> travelers check was in Canadian dollars and he was figuring in US, if >>> that was indeed the case. >> >> I tried. I pointed out that the had made a mistake. Not once, not twice, >> but three times. The first time I suggested that he had made a mistake >> I thought that he might have realized what it was, but he was so snippy >> in his assertion that he had checked his figures. I tried a second time >> and got the "I told you I checked my figures .... " Then the third >> time he just cut off me off. > > If you used the very words you claimed with no other explanation other > than "you're wrong", then it's no wonder he got defensive. >> >> I bet you that a lot of people would have just pocketed the money and >> left. Few would bother a second time. I tried a third time. I don`t >> know what the hell his problem was, but I think that little exchange as >> we paid the bill is a pretty good demonstration of his attitude. > > His problem was you. If the check had been in the dollars he was > calculating in he was right and you were a nut. I was the problem? I was in Canada. I paid with a $100 Cdn. TC. He was the one who assumed it was American dollars. I tried to tell him..... not once, not twice, but three times. He insisted that he had checked his figures carefully. Obviously he had not, because he was the one who appears to have assumed it was American. Even if he had checked his figures carefully, I was the customer and he should have indulged me. I found his manner and his attitude really insulting. I am an honest person and I treat wait staff with respect, and as when I paid my $65 bill with a $100 cheque and he comes back with three $20 bills plus I immediately realized that he had made a mistake and I could have told him what the problem was if he hadn't been so rude to me.... three times. >> >> >> It was a nice place, nice view of the harbour, nice furnishings, but the >> food wasn`t great. I can`t ever remember a waiter being that rude to me, >> and I was..... Maybe I should have just raised my voice and said `No you >> f&?%ing idiot. I have been trying to tell you that you game me $20 too >> much change. But if you insist...... `` >> > Why would you need to raise your voice or say any of that. Just say: > "You gave me too much change because the check was Canadian dollars > not US". Period. Why would I need to raise my voice? .... Because I had told him in a nice way that I thought that he had made a mistake, a big mistake, in my favour.... and he was so damned rude. If I had a complaint he should have listened. It wasn't even a complaint. I was correcting an error he made that screwed him out of a lot of money. I can just imagine what happened in the restaurant at the end of the night. Someone would have been checking the bills and the cash, credit card slips and travellers cheques and found the one submitted by him and would point out that it was Canadian not American. Then the insolent twit could slap himself on the forehead as he recalled that I tried to tell him that he had made a mistake. When he handed me the change I immediately said that I thought that he had made a mistake. |
A tip for wait staff
On Jul 25, 2:44 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 5:38 PM, sf wrote: > > > On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:32:46 -0400, Dave Smith > > > wrote: > > >> Counter service is not service. I presume they are being paid a wage. > > > i think you're talking about a McDonald's type of counter service > > (which is window service, even though it has been moved inside) vs. > > eating at the counter in the old fashioned style restaurant we used to > > call a coffee shop. > > Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and > then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my > purchase. Oh, okay. If you mean that kind of counter, no, there's no tip. I thought you meant the counter you sit at in a coffee shop or diner kind of place, where you receive and tip for the same kind of service you get at a table. -aem |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:54:42 -0700, sf > wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:22:20 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote: > >> sf > wrote: >> >> >On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith >> > wrote: >> > >> >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >> >> have been $4.50. >> > >> >15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. >> >> What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long >> as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. > >That's a total load of crap. I would say that you're a total load of crap but the truth is that you're a nobody and a nothing. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:23:31 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > On 25/07/2011 6:51 PM, sf wrote: > > > > > If you used the very words you claimed with no other explanation other > > than "you're wrong", then it's no wonder he got defensive. > >> > >> I bet you that a lot of people would have just pocketed the money and > >> left. Few would bother a second time. I tried a third time. I don`t > >> know what the hell his problem was, but I think that little exchange as > >> we paid the bill is a pretty good demonstration of his attitude. > > > > His problem was you. If the check had been in the dollars he was > > calculating in he was right and you were a nut. > > > I was the problem? I was in Canada. I paid with a $100 Cdn. TC. He was > the one who assumed it was American dollars. I tried to tell him..... > not once, not twice, but three times. Repeating the very same words "You're wrong" as if that's just going to make him sit up and take notice. Obviously you needed to clarify. > > He insisted that he had checked his figures carefully. And he did, but he did it in the wrong currency. > Obviously he had > not, because he was the one who appears to have assumed it was American. So, why didn't you say it was Canadian and not American in words other than "You're wrong"? > Even if he had checked his figures carefully, I was the customer and he > should have indulged me. So what do you think he should have done when he "indulged you"? He sounds like an honest guy who didn't want to short change you, but you were not making his job easy. He can't read your mind when you say "You're wrong". Tell him what the problem is. > I found his manner and his attitude really > insulting. I am an honest person and I treat wait staff with respect, > and as when I paid my $65 bill with a $100 cheque and he comes back with > three $20 bills plus I immediately realized that he had made a mistake > and I could have told him what the problem was if he hadn't been so rude > to me.... three times. > I still think you were the rude one. > > > > >> > >> > >> It was a nice place, nice view of the harbour, nice furnishings, but the > >> food wasn`t great. I can`t ever remember a waiter being that rude to me, > >> and I was..... Maybe I should have just raised my voice and said `No you > >> f&?%ing idiot. I have been trying to tell you that you game me $20 too > >> much change. But if you insist...... `` > >> > > Why would you need to raise your voice or say any of that. Just say: > > "You gave me too much change because the check was Canadian dollars > > not US". Period. > > Why would I need to raise my voice? .... Because I had told him in a > nice way that I thought that he had made a mistake, a big mistake, in my > favour.... and he was so damned rude. If I had a complaint he should > have listened. It wasn't even a complaint. I was correcting an error he > made that screwed him out of a lot of money. You weren't correcting anything, the only thing you did was tell him he was wrong. You needed to specify that he was calculating in the wrong currency. > > > I can just imagine what happened in the restaurant at the end of the > night. Someone would have been checking the bills and the cash, credit > card slips and travellers cheques and found the one submitted by him and > would point out that it was Canadian not American. Then the insolent > twit could slap himself on the forehead as he recalled that I tried to > tell him that he had made a mistake. You're more to blame because you gave him no clue what the "you're wrong" problem was other than "you're wrong". You don't operate like that here on rfc and I'm surprised to hear you say you do that in real life. > > When he handed me the change I immediately said that I thought that he > had made a mistake. Yet you wouldn't clarify and tell him exactly what the *mistake* was. Since you knew he was calculating in the wrong currency, that makes you a thief because you didn't correct the mistake. This holier than thou thing is you justifying taking $20 and then complaining about his attitude. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:02:03 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: > > >> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and > >> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my > >> purchase. > > > > Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. > > > > Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip > jar on the counter. I guess you're new to this and have never said "keep the change" to anyone at a cash register. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
"Dave Smith" > wrote in message . com... > On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: > >>> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and >>> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my >>> purchase. >> >> Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. >> > > Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip > jar on the counter. All of the places like that here have a tip jar on the counter except for the fast food chains. |
A tip for wait staff
"Dave Smith" > wrote in message .com... > On 25/07/2011 4:42 PM, sf wrote: > >>>> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a >>>> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more). >>>> >>> >>> >>> For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service >>> has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine >>> back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always >>> getting a full 15% tip. >>> >> I bow to your superior knowledge, Dave. Never mind that I was eating >> at and sometimes even paying for meals at every type of eating >> establishment (even the fanciest in town) back then. >> > > Tipping practices vary from place to place. It is been pointed out here > that most jurisdictions have a minimum wag, and that it is lower for > people serving alcohol directly to customers because it is expected that > they will be getting tips. In some parts of Europe tipping is not > expected. In some places you leave a bit of change. In some places there > is a serve charge added to your bill, and you might still leave a little > change for super service. My in-laws live in PA and according to them I waaaay overtip. I think it varies even in this country. Here in WA, wait staff is paid well compared to many other parts of the country. I still always leave at least 20% unless it is a case where we ordered something straight up off the menu, such as just a milkshake and a Diet Coke. But we rarely do that. Often it is an assortment of side dishes or we order something off the menu with various things left off or substitutions made. Since I feel I am causing them more work, I will tip them well if they get my order right. Once in a while they do not. Once in a while it is extreme. I could write a short story about the mishaps that occurred at a Red Robin. Granted they were newly opened. We had ordered two hamburgers with no cheese and no buns and no seasoning on the fries. First they brought us the burgers with the buns and it eventually led to garden burger with buns. Each time I tried to explain the mistake they just walked off without listening to what I said we had ordered. In the end, the manager came over and said we HAD to have ordered garden burgers because that is what the server wrote down. 2 hours later we finally got the right food and they didn't charge us for it. I have no clue what our total would have been since their was nothing on the bill. I think I left $2 or maybe $3. It has been several years now and that was the last time we ate in there. The really bad thing here is that at the time the burgers we ordered were actually on the menu. They are no longer but they used to order a lettuce wrapped burger. I can't remember what it was called. So the only special things we requested were no cheese and no seasoning on the fries. I have had other cases at other places where they did make a mistake, caught the mistake and promised not to do it again when we come back. In those cases they were always careful with our food when we did come back and I still gave them a good tip because they were trying hard. I know with a mistake like this it isn't always the servers fault. Sometimes it's the kitchen. |
A tip for wait staff
"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message ... > Dave Smith wrote: >>Brooklyn1 wrote: >>>Dave Smith wrote: >>>>Brooklyn1 wrote: >>>>>Dave Smith wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> People who work on commission and tips basically >>>>>> get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted. >>>>> >>>>> That's not necessarilly true. >>>> >>>> How is in not necessarily true? >>> >>> Many people don't tip. duh >> >>However, the fact that some people do not tip is part of my argument >>against tipping. People should be paid by their employers for the work >>they do and should not have to rely on the generousity of their >>customers. > > Don't you realize that under the socialized system you propose the > restaurant proprietor would be encouraged to steal from the servers > through underpayment plus there'd be no incentive for the servers to > exert themselves... and the quality of food would go down likewise. > > You just refuse to get it... with service workers the patron IS their > employer... a waitperson is no different from a hairdresser or cab > driver, they work a station for tips from their *customers* (who are > in fact their present employer), the better they perform the more they > earn. You're probably one of those cheap *******s who brings out a > calculator to figure a minimum tip... holy shit if you gyp yourself > out of .001%... I bet you're one of those misers who rounds *down*. I > bet yoose cheap *******s who resent having to tip anyone never bought > your mother a decent gift on her birthday for all the times she served > your dinner and wiped your ass. You ungrateful POS. > > Servers who are willing to work hard make a damn good living, but they > earn it... WTF should their superlative efforts unjustly reward the > proprietor and the lazy servers, and at their own loss... that's > called "spreading the wealth around". When any business pays workers > the same regardless their production overall production decreases, > when certain workers of the same occupation are paid more > clandestinely chaos ensues. Tipping is the great equalizer, it's what > keeps the service industries functioning honestly and at the highest > possible standard. I've been to countries where there is no tipping, > guess what, there is virtually no service... well there's lip service. > > I consider tipping a privilege, I like to tip, and I like to tip > well... that's what ensures I'll receive excellent service and > superiour food and drink. If I felt the cost of eating out is a bit > steep due to the tipping I'd never eat out, I'd always eat at home... > the cost of eating out is always steep even without the tip... the tip > is a very small portion to pay for the service I receive. I eat at > the same restaurants regularly, I go to the same barber regularly too, > if I didn't tip and tip well I'd be a ****ing imbecile to ever return. > People who don't tip are the same moochers as those who when they > attend dinner at someone's home don't bring a host/ess gift... they > wonder why their name gets deleted from the list(s). My daughter and I just had our hair trimmed. She had her highlights touched up. I then noticed that they sold clip in hair feathers. She has wanted feathers for some time. One of her dance teachers was doing them but hers were the tied in kind. We just couldn't be there at the time she was doing them. And I think I prefer the clip in ones because if she needs them out or just wants them out she has that option. So I let her have some as a birthday present. I asked our hairdresser if she could put them in for her. She said she would. In the meantime a phone call came in and a person was asking for hair feathers. She was told they didn't do them there. So I gave her a bigger tip than I would have otherwise. Because she did something she didn't have to do. |
A tip for wait staff
"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message ... > sf > wrote: > >>On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith > wrote: >> >>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >>> have been $4.50. >> >>15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. > > What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long > as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. Yes, I was tipping 15% that long ago and even longer ago than that. My mom used to have me figure the tip for her. |
A tip for wait staff
"sf" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:22:20 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote: > >> sf > wrote: >> >> >On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith >> > wrote: >> > >> >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >> >> have been $4.50. >> > >> >15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. >> >> What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long >> as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. > > That's a total load of crap. No it isn't. |
A tip for wait staff
"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message ... > In article > >, > aem > wrote: > >> What's the origin of that attitude? The counter person serves your >> drink, takes your order, serves it, cleans it up, and may take your >> payment as well, just like a table server. How does that not earn a >> tip? Because they walk a shorter distance? Your attitude makes no >> sense. > > The lady at the MAC counter does more work, in terms or service, than > the average coffee shop barista does per customer, yet we are not > obliged to tip them. She is also very well paid. I know someone who works for MAC. |
A tip for wait staff
aem wrote:
> On Jul 25, 3:26 pm, Ranée at Arabian Knits > > wrote: >> In article >> >, >> >> aem > wrote: >>> What's the origin of that attitude? The counter person serves your >>> drink, takes your order, serves it, cleans it up, and may take your >>> payment as well, just like a table server. How does that not earn >>> a tip? Because they walk a shorter distance? Your attitude makes >>> no sense. >> >> The lady at the MAC counter does more work, in terms or service, >> than the average coffee shop barista does per customer, yet we are >> not obliged to tip them. > > What's a MAC counter? Smith is talking about the counter in an eating > establishment and has offered no reason to treat table servers > different from counter servers who do basically the same job. Is that > what you're saying, too? -aem MAC is a line of makeup and cosmetics sold in high end department stores. |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 10:05 PM, sf wrote:
>>> His problem was you. If the check had been in the dollars he was >>> calculating in he was right and you were a nut. >> >> >> I was the problem? I was in Canada. I paid with a $100 Cdn. TC. He was >> the one who assumed it was American dollars. I tried to tell him..... >> not once, not twice, but three times. > > Repeating the very same words "You're wrong" as if that's just going > to make him sit up and take notice. Obviously you needed to clarify. >> >> He insisted that he had checked his figures carefully. > > And he did, but he did it in the wrong currency. Yes, the guy working in a restaurant in a Canadian city accepted a travellers cheque in Canadian funds somehow managed to mistake it for US funds. It was his mistake. It was in my favour, and I tried to point it out to him... nicely, but he responded rudely. > >> Obviously he had >> not, because he was the one who appears to have assumed it was American. > > So, why didn't you say it was Canadian and not American in words other > than "You're wrong"? Well that is the whole problem. I tried to tell him, and he did not give me a chance. He just got ruder and ruder. > >> Even if he had checked his figures carefully, I was the customer and he >> should have indulged me. > > So what do you think he should have done when he "indulged you"? He > sounds like an honest guy who didn't want to short change you, but you > were not making his job easy. He can't read your mind when you say > "You're wrong". Tell him what the problem is. All he had to so was to give me a chance to explain. He old me the fist time that he had checked his figures carefully. The next time it was I told you that I checked my figures carefully, and the third time he just cut me off. > >> I found his manner and his attitude really >> insulting. I am an honest person and I treat wait staff with respect, >> and as when I paid my $65 bill with a $100 cheque and he comes back with >> three $20 bills plus I immediately realized that he had made a mistake >> and I could have told him what the problem was if he hadn't been so rude >> to me.... three times. >> > I still think you were the rude one. For saving him the $20 that was going to come out of his pocket? I spoke nicely and he answer rudely and then even more rudely. >> Why would I need to raise my voice? .... Because I had told him in a >> nice way that I thought that he had made a mistake, a big mistake, in my >> favour.... and he was so damned rude. If I had a complaint he should >> have listened. It wasn't even a complaint. I was correcting an error he >> made that screwed him out of a lot of money. > > You weren't correcting anything, the only thing you did was tell him > he was wrong. You needed to specify that he was calculating in the > wrong currency. I do apologize, but I was not aware that when waiters make mistakes that are going to cost them money that I have to sit there and figure out a way to point out the error without causing them to gt defensive. Waiters get a lot of abuse and tell him that I he had mad a mistake with my change would be a lot less than they are accustomed to. >> >> >> I can just imagine what happened in the restaurant at the end of the >> night. Someone would have been checking the bills and the cash, credit >> card slips and travellers cheques and found the one submitted by him and >> would point out that it was Canadian not American. Then the insolent >> twit could slap himself on the forehead as he recalled that I tried to >> tell him that he had made a mistake. > > You're more to blame because you gave him no clue what the "you're > wrong" problem was other than "you're wrong". You don't operate like > that here on rfc and I'm surprised to hear you say you do that in real > life. Would it have been different if he had brought the wrong order and insisted that was what I had ordered? I tried to point out nicely that he had made a mistake and he was rude about it. I tried three times to give him the money. >> >> When he handed me the change I immediately said that I thought that he >> had made a mistake. > > Yet you wouldn't clarify and tell him exactly what the *mistake* was. > Since you knew he was calculating in the wrong currency, that makes > you a thief because you didn't correct the mistake. This holier than > thou thing is you justifying taking $20 and then complaining about his > attitude Okay..... I can see where I was went wrong. Next time a waiter who has already been rude and condescending to me and my family gives me too much change I will save us both the embarassment. |
A tip for wait staff
"sf" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:02:03 -0400, Dave Smith > > wrote: > >> On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: >> >> >> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order >> >> and >> >> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my >> >> purchase. >> > >> > Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. >> > >> >> Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip >> jar on the counter. > > I guess you're new to this and have never said "keep the change" to > anyone at a cash register. Are McDonalds workers allowed to keep the change? I would think not. Although I've never worked there so I can't say for sure. |
A tip for wait staff
On 25/07/2011 10:11 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Dave > wrote in message > . com... >> On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: >> >>>> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order and >>>> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my >>>> purchase. >>> >>> Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. >>> >> >> Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip >> jar on the counter. > > All of the places like that here have a tip jar on the counter except for > the fast food chains. > > Yet, a number of people here have agreed that this sort of counter service does not warrant a tip. Why is it that when they jack up the prices to make twice as much profit from us they expect us to turn around and give them a tip? |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:35:40 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > I tried three times to give him the money. > > >> > >> When he handed me the change I immediately said that I thought that he > >> had made a mistake. > > > > Yet you wouldn't clarify and tell him exactly what the *mistake* was. > > Since you knew he was calculating in the wrong currency, that makes > > you a thief because you didn't correct the mistake. This holier than > > thou thing is you justifying taking $20 and then complaining about his > > attitude > > > > Okay..... I can see where I was went wrong. Next time a waiter who has > already been rude and condescending to me and my family gives me too > much change I will save us both the embarassment. I'm going to drop this matter because I'm just repeating my self. We can agree to disagree. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:48:11 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:54:42 -0700, sf > wrote: > > >On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:22:20 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote: > > > >> sf > wrote: > >> > >> >On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would > >> >> have been $4.50. > >> > > >> >15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. > >> > >> What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long > >> as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. > > > >That's a total load of crap. > > I would say that you're a total load of crap but the truth is that > you're a nobody and a nothing. <snicker> -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
"Dave Smith" > wrote in message . com... > On 25/07/2011 10:11 PM, Julie Bove wrote: >> "Dave > wrote in message >> . com... >>> On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: >>> >>>>> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my order >>>>> and >>>>> then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down and enjoy my >>>>> purchase. >>>> >>>> Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. >>>> >>> >>> Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has a tip >>> jar on the counter. >> >> All of the places like that here have a tip jar on the counter except for >> the fast food chains. >> >> > > Yet, a number of people here have agreed that this sort of counter service > does not warrant a tip. Why is it that when they jack up the prices to > make twice as much profit from us they expect us to turn around and give > them a tip? > Do you tip if the owner, or one of his/her kids waits on you? Graham |
A tip for wait staff
Dave Smith wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 10:11 PM, Julie Bove wrote: >> "Dave > wrote in message >> . com... >>> On 25/07/2011 6:55 PM, sf wrote: >>> >>>>> Counter, as in standing in line until it`s my turn, placing my >>>>> order and then leaving with it, or finding a place to sit down >>>>> and enjoy my purchase. >>>> >>>> Yes, McDonald's style. Nobody is advocating tipping there. >>>> >>> >>> Yet it is the same style of service as Starbucks, which always has >>> a tip jar on the counter. >> >> All of the places like that here have a tip jar on the counter >> except for the fast food chains. >> >> > > Yet, a number of people here have agreed that this sort of counter > service does not warrant a tip. Why is it that when they jack up the > prices to make twice as much profit from us they expect us to turn > around and give them a tip? I don't buy from these sorts of places often but when I do, I do leave a tip. Rarely over 50 cents though and it does appear that most people if they leave anything at all are only leaving their change. |
A tip for wait staff
"Dave Smith" > wrote in message .com... > On 25/07/2011 2:27 PM, sf wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith >> > wrote: >> >>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >>> have been $4.50. >> >> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a >> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more). >> > > > For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service > has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine > back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always > getting a full 15% tip. > > I only recall 15% myself, but I have heard of older people talking about 10% as the norm many years ago. I'm guessing it was pre-1960. |
A tip for wait staff
Dan Abel > wrote:
> "Julie Bove" > wrote: >> "Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message >> ... >> > sf > wrote: >> >>15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. >> > What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long >> > as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. >> Yes, I was tipping 15% that long ago and even longer ago than that. My mom >> used to have me figure the tip for her. >That's pretty amazing! You've been tipping 15% even longer ago than >more than 60 years? 15% was certainly the U.S. norm 30 or 35 years ago. It's only in the past 20 years that the norm has gone up to 17% to 20%. And I think actual tip levels are somewhat regional, and are lower out in the boondocks. According to the following link, which is fairly recent, French Laundry does have an "additional tip" line on their bill: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/601891 So it's approximately like Chez Panisse in that respect. I suppose at Chez Panisse, a diner could insist that the 17% is "discretionary" and demand to be charged less than 17% tip, but I have never heard of that actually happening. But I suspect French Laundry has consistently better service. They would almost have to. Steve |
A tip for wait staff
Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >, > "Julie Bove" > wrote: > >> "Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message >> ... >>> sf > wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would >>>>> have been $4.50. >>>> >>>> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10%. >>> >>> What a cheapo... the standard tip in the US has been 15% for as long >>> as I can remember, and that's for more then twice your 30 years. >> >> Yes, I was tipping 15% that long ago and even longer ago than that. >> My mom used to have me figure the tip for her. > > That's pretty amazing! You've been tipping 15% even longer ago than > more than 60 years? Ack! I didn't read that right. I thought it said 30 years. Since I am only 52 that math just doesn't work. My parents have always left 15% unless perhaps there was bad service and then they would leave 10%. Thankfully that rarely happened. |
A tip for wait staff
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A tip for wait staff
"sf" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 03:53:24 +0000 (UTC), > (Steve Pope) wrote: > >> But I suspect French Laundry has consistently >> better service. They would almost have to. > > If you've ever dined in a place like that (and I haven't - I've only > dined at one star restaurants), 17% seems like you're being shamefully > cheap... the service is that good. Then look around and notice the > detail of setting up tables that have been turned. What is a one star restaurant? Sounds pretty bad! |
A tip for wait staff
sf > wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 03:53:24 +0000 (UTC), >> But I suspect French Laundry has consistently >> better service. They would almost have to. >If you've ever dined in a place like that (and I haven't - I've only >dined at one star restaurants), 17% seems like you're being shamefully >cheap... the service is that good. I'm mainly saying French Laundry must have better service than Chez Panisse. I've dined in restaurants with (to my mind) flawless service such as La Folie. But it seems you have to get up to about that level before it seems definite that they've actually thoroughly trained their waitstaff and thoroughly planned out what they're doing. Steve |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:37:32 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > Yet, a number of people here have agreed that this sort of counter > service does not warrant a tip. Why is it that when they jack up the > prices to make twice as much profit from us they expect us to turn > around and give them a tip? I don't call it a tip. The money I would have said "keep the change" to goes into the jar. I imagine it's like a bank or grocery store where they get into more trouble for having more money in the till than less, but it's probably so the till will balance and yes the IRS calls it a tip. Some places make it a donation jar. I don't care what it's called, I don't put anything into the jar very often. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:24:45 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
> Do you tip if the owner, or one of his/her kids waits on you? How would he know if it's the owner or one of "his" kids? -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
A tip for wait staff
sf wrote:
>> I tried three times to give him the money. >> >>>> >>>> When he handed me the change I immediately said that I thought that he >>>> had made a mistake. >>> >>> Yet you wouldn't clarify and tell him exactly what the *mistake* was. >>> Since you knew he was calculating in the wrong currency, that makes >>> you a thief because you didn't correct the mistake. This holier than >>> thou thing is you justifying taking $20 and then complaining about his >>> attitude >> >> Okay..... I can see where I was went wrong. Next time a waiter who has >> already been rude and condescending to me and my family gives me too >> much change I will save us both the embarassment. > > I'm going to drop this matter because I'm just repeating my self. We > can agree to disagree. Wouldn't the world be a very different place if everybody agreed on everything? Bob |
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