Julie Bove > wrote:

>My daughter likes Teff wraps.

Teff has gluten in it, it turns out; although some celiac persons
consume it, if the issue is allergies rather than celiac then you do
not want it.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>My daughter likes Teff wraps.
>
> Teff has gluten in it, it turns out; although some celiac persons
> consume it, if the issue is allergies rather than celiac then you do
> not want it.

The package says gluten free. Let me look it up.

This is what she eats although I don't buy them here.

http://www.glutenfree.com/index.cfm/...eff-Wraps.html

Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a cite that
says otherwise?

Julie Bove > wrote:

[teff]

> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
> cite that says otherwise?

Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> [teff]
>
>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>> cite that says otherwise?
>
> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.

Actually it says the opposite.

The link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff

The quote:

" The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain the
a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease) and has a high concentration
of different nutrients, a very high calcium content, and significant levels
of the minerals phosphorus, magnesium, aluminum, iron, copper, zinc, boron,
barium, and thiamin.[6] "

"Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>> [teff]
>>
>>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>>> cite that says otherwise?
>>
>> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.
>
> Actually it says the opposite.
>
> The link:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff
>
> The quote:
>
> " The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain
> the a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease) and has a high
> concentration of different nutrients, a very high calcium content, and
> significant levels of the minerals phosphorus, magnesium, aluminum, iron,
> copper, zinc, boron, barium, and thiamin.[6] "

That's not the opposite. It says it has gluten but not the one that bothers
celiacs. Do you think all gluten intolerant people are celiacs? They
aren't.

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
>>> [teff]
>>>
>>>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>>>> cite that says otherwise?
>>>
>>> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.
>>
>> Actually it says the opposite.
>>
>> The link:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff
>>
>> The quote:
>>
>> " The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain
>> the a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease) and has a high
>> concentration of different nutrients, a very high calcium content, and
>> significant levels of the minerals phosphorus, magnesium, aluminum, iron,
>> copper, zinc, boron, barium, and thiamin.[6] "
>
> That's not the opposite. It says it has gluten but not the one that
> bothers celiacs. Do you think all gluten intolerant people are celiacs?
> They aren't.

I didn't say that at all! My daughter used to have a gluten allergy. Has
since outgrown that but still has a wheat allergy.

Plenty of foods contain gluten but it is not the sort of gluten one must
avoid with a gluten issue. Corn for instance. The link says it is *not*
that kind of gluten. So it is gluten free. The person who said it wasn't
is wrong.

In article >,
Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>> [teff]
>>
>>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>>> cite that says otherwise?
>>
>> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.
>
>Actually it says the opposite.
>
>The link:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff
>
>The quote:
>
>" The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain the
>a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease)

Right. Please go back to the part of my post you did not quote; I said
that Teff has gluten but that celiacs eat it, but if you have
a gluten allergy it will be a problem.

Ranee did not state whether the elimination diet is intended to
screen for celiac as opposed to allergy.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>
>>> [teff]
>>>
>>>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>>>> cite that says otherwise?
>>>
>>> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.
>>
>>Actually it says the opposite.
>>
>>The link:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff
>>
>>The quote:
>>
>>" The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain
>>the
>>a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease)
>
> Right. Please go back to the part of my post you did not quote; I said
> that Teff has gluten but that celiacs eat it, but if you have
> a gluten allergy it will be a problem.
>
> Ranee did not state whether the elimination diet is intended to
> screen for celiac as opposed to allergy.

I just read that over again. I do not see that part. And that just makes
no sense. If you have a gluten allergy you must avoid the same type of
gluten that celiacs do. Not *all* gluten. Sheesh.

Please quote that part for me so I can see it. Because I don't.

Julie Bove > wrote:

> If you have a gluten allergy you must avoid the same type of
> gluten that celiacs do.

Why?

A person can potentially have an allergy to any protein. Whereas
only certain subtypes of gluten protein cause celiac, which is not an
allergy. So one would expect that more subtypes of gluten protein
are potential allergens, beyond those that are responsible for celiac.

I'm not saying your statement is definitely untrue, but I don't know
why it would be definitely true.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>
>>> [teff]
>>>
>>>> Everything I have seen indicates it is in fact GF. Do you have a
>>>> cite that says otherwise?
>>>
>>> Yes, the Wikipedia article on Teff, which itself has a cite.
>>
>>Actually it says the opposite.
>>
>>The link:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teff
>>
>>The quote:
>>
>>" The grain can be used by celiacs (the gluten in teff does not contain
>>the
>>a-gliadin-fraction that causes celiac disease)
>
> Right. Please go back to the part of my post you did not quote; I said
> that Teff has gluten but that celiacs eat it, but if you have
> a gluten allergy it will be a problem.
>
> Ranee did not state whether the elimination diet is intended to
> screen for celiac as opposed to allergy.
>
> Steve

There are different types of gluten. Read about it he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten

A person with a gluten issue (whatever that may be) needs only to avoid the
true gluten.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>> If you have a gluten allergy you must avoid the same type of
>> gluten that celiacs do.
>
> Why?
>
> A person can potentially have an allergy to any protein. Whereas
> only certain subtypes of gluten protein cause celiac, which is not an
> allergy. So one would expect that more subtypes of gluten protein
> are potential allergens, beyond those that are responsible for celiac.
>
> I'm not saying your statement is definitely untrue, but I don't know
> why it would be definitely true.

Well I'm not a Dr. or scientist. I just know when my daughter had the
gluten allergy the Dr. told me the form of gluten she must avoid is the one
in wheat, barley and the other stuff a celiac must avoid. Not the gluten in
corn or rice. Yes, people can be allergic to corn or rice. But then it is
called a corn or rice allergy. Not a gluten allergy.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>There are different types of gluten. Read about it he
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten

Right

>A person with a gluten issue (whatever that may be) needs only to avoid the
>true gluten.

You keep saying this, but I am not sure why.

Steve

Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a gluten allergy you must avoid the same type of
>>> gluten that celiacs do.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> A person can potentially have an allergy to any protein. Whereas
>> only certain subtypes of gluten protein cause celiac, which is not an
>> allergy. So one would expect that more subtypes of gluten protein
>> are potential allergens, beyond those that are responsible for celiac.
>>
>> I'm not saying your statement is definitely untrue, but I don't know
>> why it would be definitely true.
>
>Well I'm not a Dr. or scientist. I just know when my daughter had the
>gluten allergy the Dr. told me the form of gluten she must avoid is the one
>in wheat, barley and the other stuff a celiac must avoid. Not the gluten in
>corn or rice. Yes, people can be allergic to corn or rice. But then it is
>called a corn or rice allergy. Not a gluten allergy.

Well, I had been talking about teff gluten, not corn or rice.

In any case, we don't know what Ranee's goal is in her elimination
diet. So far as we know it has nothing to do with the doctor's assessment
of your daughter's situation.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>There are different types of gluten. Read about it he
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten
>
> Right
>
>>A person with a gluten issue (whatever that may be) needs only to avoid
>>the
>>true gluten.
>
> You keep saying this, but I am not sure why.

Because it's true!

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you have a gluten allergy you must avoid the same type of
>>>> gluten that celiacs do.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> A person can potentially have an allergy to any protein. Whereas
>>> only certain subtypes of gluten protein cause celiac, which is not an
>>> allergy. So one would expect that more subtypes of gluten protein
>>> are potential allergens, beyond those that are responsible for celiac.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying your statement is definitely untrue, but I don't know
>>> why it would be definitely true.
>>
>>Well I'm not a Dr. or scientist. I just know when my daughter had the
>>gluten allergy the Dr. told me the form of gluten she must avoid is the
>>one
>>in wheat, barley and the other stuff a celiac must avoid. Not the gluten
>>in
>>corn or rice. Yes, people can be allergic to corn or rice. But then it
>>is
>>called a corn or rice allergy. Not a gluten allergy.
>
> Well, I had been talking about teff gluten, not corn or rice.
>
> In any case, we don't know what Ranee's goal is in her elimination
> diet. So far as we know it has nothing to do with the doctor's assessment
> of your daughter's situation.

Do you have an issue with gluten? If not then please stop talking about
something you know nothing about.

And you are claiming that people with gluten issues (aside from celiac) can
not eat teff but you can not prove that.

At any rate after looking up the Paleo diet it's all a moot point because I
don't think any grains or carby foods are allowed.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>> In any case, we don't know what Ranee's goal is in her elimination
>> diet. So far as we know it has nothing to do with the doctor's assessment
>> of your daughter's situation.

>Do you have an issue with gluten? If not then please stop talking about
>something you know nothing about.

Really. I know that a human can develop an allergy to any protein,
including any form of gluten protein, including the forms you are
insisting are okay for Ranee's elimination diet, the purpose of
which Ranee hasn't even stated.

You haven't supported your statements. I'm just pointing this
out. Don't shoot the messenger.


Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
>>> In any case, we don't know what Ranee's goal is in her elimination
>>> diet. So far as we know it has nothing to do with the doctor's
>>> assessment
>>> of your daughter's situation.
>
>>Do you have an issue with gluten? If not then please stop talking about
>>something you know nothing about.
>
> Really. I know that a human can develop an allergy to any protein,
> including any form of gluten protein, including the forms you are
> insisting are okay for Ranee's elimination diet, the purpose of
> which Ranee hasn't even stated.
>
> You haven't supported your statements. I'm just pointing this
> out. Don't shoot the messenger.

I *have* supported my statements. My daughter had a gluten allergy. She
has since outgrown it but is still allergic to wheat. I know what her Dr.
said. And I know what plenty of other people with gluten issues have said.
I still hang out on the celiac forum because for the most part that is still
the kind of diet she has to eat. Yes, she can now eat barley and those with
a gluten issue can not.

This explains gluten allergy/sensitivity. And what foods can not be eaten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_sensitivity

I don't think it matters one whit why the children can not have gluten. I
know there are a number of reasons why people avoid it and it isn't always
celiac or an allergy.

But bottom line, she said it is also a paleo diet. I have looked that up.
And on a paleo diet no grains are allowed at all. Neither are beans of any
kind or other carby foods.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>I *have* supported my statements. My daughter had a gluten allergy. She
>has since outgrown it but is still allergic to wheat. I know what her Dr.
>said. And I know what plenty of other people with gluten issues have said.
>I still hang out on the celiac forum because for the most part that is still
>the kind of diet she has to eat. Yes, she can now eat barley and those with
>a gluten issue can not.
>
>This explains gluten allergy/sensitivity. And what foods can not be eaten.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_sensitivity
>
>I don't think it matters one whit why the children can not have gluten. I
>know there are a number of reasons why people avoid it and it isn't always
>celiac or an allergy.

Of course you are right, I didn't mean to impune your knowledge of
gluten-free issues. My apologies. I do not know exactly what Ranee
meant, but probably what you are describing as the gluten-free consensus
is what she needs.

>But bottom line, she said it is also a paleo diet. I have looked that up.
>And on a paleo diet no grains are allowed at all. Neither are beans of any
>kind or other carby foods.

Yes, there is "Paleo" in the subject line but Ranee did not otherwise
discuss that aspect.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>I *have* supported my statements. My daughter had a gluten allergy. She
>>has since outgrown it but is still allergic to wheat. I know what her Dr.
>>said. And I know what plenty of other people with gluten issues have
>>said.
>>I still hang out on the celiac forum because for the most part that is
>>still
>>the kind of diet she has to eat. Yes, she can now eat barley and those
>>with
>>a gluten issue can not.
>>
>>This explains gluten allergy/sensitivity. And what foods can not be
>>eaten.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_sensitivity
>>
>>I don't think it matters one whit why the children can not have gluten. I
>>know there are a number of reasons why people avoid it and it isn't always
>>celiac or an allergy.
>
> Of course you are right, I didn't mean to impune your knowledge of
> gluten-free issues. My apologies. I do not know exactly what Ranee
> meant, but probably what you are describing as the gluten-free consensus
> is what she needs.
>
>>But bottom line, she said it is also a paleo diet. I have looked that up.
>>And on a paleo diet no grains are allowed at all. Neither are beans of
>>any
>>kind or other carby foods.
>
> Yes, there is "Paleo" in the subject line but Ranee did not otherwise
> discuss that aspect.

I didn't know what GAPS meant either so I looked it up. Much that is on
that is not allowed on the other diets. For instance, ham would not be
allowed on the Paleo. Nuts are supposed to be eaten on the Paleo and GAPS.

So it looks like it would have to be plain meats, fish, some vegetables
perhaps with allowed fats, some cooked, some raw, eggs and whatever fruits
are allowed on whatever version of Paleo she is following. That seems to
vary. Processed foods of any kind are not allowed. And on the Paleo, no
grains whatever.

I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children unless it
is medically warranted because when you eliminate all grains you eliminate
certain vitamins. And it might not work for a very active person because of
the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight loss and
GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like a sensible way for
anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then it's not my diet.

"Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
> I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children unless it
> is medically warranted because when you eliminate all grains you eliminate
> certain vitamins. And it might not work for a very active person because of
> the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight loss and
> GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like a sensible way for
> anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then it's not my diet.

I would agree, except for one thing that would cause me to have kids
undergo an extreme diet and that would be Autism. However, we will not know
the answer to this until the OP responds.

The one book I have on an Elimination diet claims to help with Autism and
other problems is the Book below, "The UltraMind Solution by Mark Hyman".
Rice will be the mainstay of the diet. A very extreme diet and expensive.
Grass only beef is found only at one super market I know of is "Whole Foods
Market".

http://www.amazon.com/UltraMind-Solu...0096195&sr=1-1

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Julie Bove > wrote:

>I didn't know what GAPS meant either

Nor I

>so I looked it up. Much that is on
>that is not allowed on the other diets. For instance, ham would not be
>allowed on the Paleo. Nuts are supposed to be eaten on the Paleo and GAPS.
>
>So it looks like it would have to be plain meats, fish, some vegetables
>perhaps with allowed fats, some cooked, some raw, eggs and whatever fruits
>are allowed on whatever version of Paleo she is following. That seems to
>vary. Processed foods of any kind are not allowed. And on the Paleo, no
>grains whatever.

>I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children unless it
>is medically warranted because when you eliminate all grains you eliminate
>certain vitamins. And it might not work for a very active person because of
>the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight loss and
>GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like a sensible way for
>anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then it's not my diet.

Right. It seems Ranee was not looking for comments on the choice of
diet(s), just for menu suggestions.

When looking further into grains and glutens, I found the following
on the USDA site:

http://wheat.pw.usda.gov/ggpages/topics/celiac.html

This author divides grains into four categories:

(1) Wheat and grains closely related to wheat and are similar in terms
of proteins toxic to celiac persons: spelt, barley, kamut, rye, triticale.
(2) Corn and rice, which have been shown not to be toxic to celiac persons
(3) Grains that are most closely related to corn and so may be non-toxic,
but about which less is known: sorghum, teff, ragi, Job's tears
(4) Grains that are only distantly related to wheat and can be assumed
to be non-toxic: buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, canola

He does not list oats as being safe due to non-universal acceptance of
the safety research on oats as well as frequent contamination.

(The paper appears to be a decade or more old though, so maybe some
of category (3) is now solidly considered safe.)

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>I didn't know what GAPS meant either
>
> Nor I
>
>>so I looked it up. Much that is on
>>that is not allowed on the other diets. For instance, ham would not be
>>allowed on the Paleo. Nuts are supposed to be eaten on the Paleo and
>>GAPS.
>>
>>So it looks like it would have to be plain meats, fish, some vegetables
>>perhaps with allowed fats, some cooked, some raw, eggs and whatever fruits
>>are allowed on whatever version of Paleo she is following. That seems to
>>vary. Processed foods of any kind are not allowed. And on the Paleo, no
>>grains whatever.
>
>>I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children unless
>>it
>>is medically warranted because when you eliminate all grains you eliminate
>>certain vitamins. And it might not work for a very active person because
>>of
>>the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight loss and
>>GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like a sensible way for
>>anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then it's not my diet.
>
> Right. It seems Ranee was not looking for comments on the choice of
> diet(s), just for menu suggestions.
>
> When looking further into grains and glutens, I found the following
> on the USDA site:
>
> http://wheat.pw.usda.gov/ggpages/topics/celiac.html
>
> This author divides grains into four categories:
>
> (1) Wheat and grains closely related to wheat and are similar in terms
> of proteins toxic to celiac persons: spelt, barley, kamut, rye, triticale.
> (2) Corn and rice, which have been shown not to be toxic to celiac persons
> (3) Grains that are most closely related to corn and so may be non-toxic,
> but about which less is known: sorghum, teff, ragi, Job's tears
> (4) Grains that are only distantly related to wheat and can be assumed
> to be non-toxic: buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, canola
>
> He does not list oats as being safe due to non-universal acceptance of
> the safety research on oats as well as frequent contamination.
>
> (The paper appears to be a decade or more old though, so maybe some
> of category (3) is now solidly considered safe.)

Correct but... You can buy certified GF oats.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>> http://wheat.pw.usda.gov/ggpages/topics/celiac.html
>>
>> This author divides grains into four categories:
>>
>> (1) Wheat and grains closely related to wheat and are similar in terms
>> of proteins toxic to celiac persons: spelt, barley, kamut, rye, triticale.
>> (2) Corn and rice, which have been shown not to be toxic to celiac persons
>> (3) Grains that are most closely related to corn and so may be non-toxic,
>> but about which less is known: sorghum, teff, ragi, Job's tears
>> (4) Grains that are only distantly related to wheat and can be assumed
>> to be non-toxic: buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, canola
>>
>> He does not list oats as being safe due to non-universal acceptance of
>> the safety research on oats as well as frequent contamination.
>>
>> (The paper appears to be a decade or more old though, so maybe some
>> of category (3) is now solidly considered safe.)
>
>Correct but... You can buy certified GF oats.

This is true, but he listed two reasons he doesn't recommend oats. One
is they may be contaminated. So the certified GF ones are not contaminated.
But there is still the other objection, that the research itself on oats
is not unanimously interpreted as oats being non-toxic to celiac
persons.

And he makes the following point: celiac persons who have followed
a gluten-free diet will often not have a noticeable reaction even to
a wheat challenge. Therefore, it is not reliable to try foods as a
challenge and conclude they are not a problem. (Of course, a researcher
would say this...)


Steve

Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:

>I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and almonds.
>We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three boys with
>very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for a possible
>food related reason for their suffering. We have done skin tests for
>allergies and will be doing a blood test after this if we find nothing
>through the diet. I am cooking this way in general because I have seven
>children and don't want to do two different meals three times a day. I
>don't want to tempt/tease those on the elimination diet, and I don't
>want the hassle of cooking six meals a day.

Ranee, I hope that your get to the bottom of your sons' eczema condition.

I have a moderate-to-severe eczema-type thing in places and I have
found two topical treatments that have at different times helped
alot. One is a product that comes in a tube called Acid Mantle,
which is now made by Doak Dermatologics. There is a product in a tub
by the same name but the tube versions is what worked for me.

The other is German chamomile (which must be compounded appropriately).

The above may not be relevant to your sons' condition of course, but
I am passing it along because alot of people have not heard of either
of these treatments.

S.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
>>> http://wheat.pw.usda.gov/ggpages/topics/celiac.html
>>>
>>> This author divides grains into four categories:
>>>
>>> (1) Wheat and grains closely related to wheat and are similar in terms
>>> of proteins toxic to celiac persons: spelt, barley, kamut, rye,
>>> triticale.
>>> (2) Corn and rice, which have been shown not to be toxic to celiac
>>> persons
>>> (3) Grains that are most closely related to corn and so may be
>>> non-toxic,
>>> but about which less is known: sorghum, teff, ragi, Job's tears
>>> (4) Grains that are only distantly related to wheat and can be assumed
>>> to be non-toxic: buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, canola
>>>
>>> He does not list oats as being safe due to non-universal acceptance of
>>> the safety research on oats as well as frequent contamination.
>>>
>>> (The paper appears to be a decade or more old though, so maybe some
>>> of category (3) is now solidly considered safe.)
>>
>>Correct but... You can buy certified GF oats.
>
> This is true, but he listed two reasons he doesn't recommend oats. One
> is they may be contaminated. So the certified GF ones are not
> contaminated.
> But there is still the other objection, that the research itself on oats
> is not unanimously interpreted as oats being non-toxic to celiac
> persons.
>
> And he makes the following point: celiac persons who have followed
> a gluten-free diet will often not have a noticeable reaction even to
> a wheat challenge. Therefore, it is not reliable to try foods as a
> challenge and conclude they are not a problem. (Of course, a researcher
> would say this...)

Celiacs must often avoid dairy and some other foods like soy at least soon
after diagnosis. As their villi heal they can have trouble digesting
things. Some celiacs find they can never eat dairy again although it is
neither an allergy or lactose intolerance. And some celiacs never have
symptoms at all. But they are still sustaining damage if they eat the
gluten.

Since my daughter has an allergy and not celiac the GF oats are fine for
her. I can tell when she has been cross contaminated. She gets quite ill
quite fast.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Nad R > wrote:
>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>> >
>> > I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children
>> > unless it
>> > is medically warranted because when you eliminate all grains you
>> > eliminate
>> > certain vitamins. And it might not work for a very active person
>> > because
>> > of
>> > the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight loss
>> > and
>> > GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like a sensible way
>> > for
>> > anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then it's not my diet.
>>
>> I would agree, except for one thing that would cause me to have kids
>> undergo an extreme diet and that would be Autism. However, we will not
>> know
>> the answer to this until the OP responds.
>
> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and almonds.
> We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three boys with
> very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for a possible
> food related reason for their suffering. We have done skin tests for
> allergies and will be doing a blood test after this if we find nothing
> through the diet. I am cooking this way in general because I have seven
> children and don't want to do two different meals three times a day. I
> don't want to tempt/tease those on the elimination diet, and I don't
> want the hassle of cooking six meals a day.
>
> Regards,
> Ranee @ Arabian Knits

But you did say Paleo and grain are not allowed on Paleo. My daughter's
eczema was from wheat. But I know other foods can cause it.

RanC)e at Arabian Knits wrote in rec.food.cooking:


> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
> almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three
> boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for a
> possible food related reason for their suffering. We have done skin
> tests for allergies and will be doing a blood test after this if we
> find nothing through the diet. I am cooking this way in general
> because I have seven children and don't want to do two different
> meals three times a day. I don't want to tempt/tease those on the
> elimination diet, and I don't want the hassle of cooking six meals a
> day.

Sensible. Let us know how it goes? What you'll hopefully find is the
skin issues clear somewhat, possibly a week to 10 days into it.

My related experience to this, is for pets but I can assume it works
with people too at some extent.

I believe the term is 'antipathy', sometimes referred to as mild
allergic reactions though that 'allergin' may not be technically
correct for people.

With Dogs and cats, wheat, corn and soy are top culprits. The usual
symptoms are patchy itchy skin (can get very bad!) and ear infections
(yeast most common). You can find out within about week by removing
those 3 (remember the treats too!) though a full cure will take longer
and you have to treat the ear infecion because that won't go away just
by removing the grains.

When Aunti Mabel came to us last Thanksgiving, she had knawed raw
patches on her feet and legs and most of the fur was gone from her
belly which was seeping a clear ?blook plazma? ?lymph? fluid.

We immediately took her off the food the rescue had her on. Since we
were supposed to just be watching her for 4-5 days so her foster-mom
could make a family visit out west, we were given her food and meds.

Within 5 days she completely stopped chewing holes in her skin and
licking her belly. They had her on a 'low grain' formula (not being
able to afford better at the rescue) but it didn't go far enough.
Apparently though it was better than when she was first found. We knew
the signs because our other dog, 'Cash' has grain issues as well though
nothing near Aunti Mabel's.

I don't know if it was wheat, corn, or soy (or all 3?) in her case, but
she's on strictly grain free now just like Cash. Oh, and of all the
luck, my cat Daisy-chan has grain issues too. Just bad luck there,
it's not actually that common. Daisy-chan's reaction is mildest of the
3 and if I needed to feed her something with grain for a few days,
she'd probably be ok. Longer though, she starts overgrooming and gets
yeast infections in her ears.

Now, back to humans, you'll hopefully have good results. I assume
later you test each thing that was removed, one by one, to see which
seems to be the culprit?



--

Julie Bove wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> "RanC)e at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> >Nad R > wrote:
> >
> >>"Julie Bove" > wrote:
> > > >
> >>> I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children
> > unless it >>> is medically warranted because when you eliminate all
> grains you > eliminate >>> certain vitamins. And it might not work
> for a very active person > because >>> of
> >>> the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight
> loss > and >>> GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like
> a sensible way > for >>> anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then
> it's not my diet.
> > >
> > > I would agree, except for one thing that would cause me to have
> > > kids undergo an extreme diet and that would be Autism. However,
> > > we will not know the answer to this until the OP responds.
> >
> > I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
> > Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
> > gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
> > almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have
> > three boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are
> > looking for a possible food related reason for their suffering. We
> > have done skin tests for allergies and will be doing a blood test
> > after this if we find nothing through the diet. I am cooking this
> > way in general because I have seven children and don't want to do
> > two different meals three times a day. I don't want to tempt/tease
> > those on the elimination diet, and I don't want the hassle of
> > cooking six meals a day.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>
> But you did say Paleo and grain are not allowed on Paleo. My
> daughter's eczema was from wheat. But I know other foods can cause
> it.

Julie, give the lady a break. She's doing a 'paleo-like' elimination
diet, not the full blown version. By removing the most likely related
components, she may see improvement (I sincerely hope so!).



--

cshenk > wrote:

>My related experience to this, is for pets but I can assume it works
>with people too at some extent.

>I believe the term is 'antipathy', sometimes referred to as mild
>allergic reactions though that 'allergin' may not be technically
>correct for people.

>With Dogs and cats, wheat, corn and soy are top culprits. The usual
>symptoms are patchy itchy skin (can get very bad!) and ear infections
>(yeast most common). You can find out within about week by removing
>those 3 (remember the treats too!) though a full cure will take longer

This jibes with my experience with cats. They develop food allergies
because their diet is so monotonous, and so you need to remove
the protein ingredients they've been eating their entire life.
With usual cat food, this is corn and chicken and maybe a few others
such as tuna, depending on what you've been feeding them. Corn
and chicken are however the most common.

Our cat stopped scratching/itching when switched to a mostly duck diet
that eliminated corn and chicken.

I understand this reaction is much less common in people because humans
almost always eat a more varied diet, not the same exact food everyday,
and also our immune systems are considerably more developed and
don't get tripped up as easily as a cat's.

Steve

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> cshenk > wrote:
>
> >My related experience to this, is for pets but I can assume it works
> >with people too at some extent.
>
> >I believe the term is 'antipathy', sometimes referred to as mild
> >allergic reactions though that 'allergin' may not be technically
> >correct for people.
>
> >With Dogs and cats, wheat, corn and soy are top culprits. The usual
> >symptoms are patchy itchy skin (can get very bad!) and ear infections
> >(yeast most common). You can find out within about week by removing
> >those 3 (remember the treats too!) though a full cure will take longer
>
> This jibes with my experience with cats. They develop food allergies
> because their diet is so monotonous, and so you need to remove
> the protein ingredients they've been eating their entire life.
> With usual cat food, this is corn and chicken and maybe a few others
> such as tuna, depending on what you've been feeding them. Corn
> and chicken are however the most common.
>
> Our cat stopped scratching/itching when switched to a mostly duck diet
> that eliminated corn and chicken.
>
> I understand this reaction is much less common in people because humans
> almost always eat a more varied diet, not the same exact food everyday,
> and also our immune systems are considerably more developed and
> don't get tripped up as easily as a cat's.

Cats who are foraging for their own food have a far more varied diet
than most domestic cats. They eat birds, lizards, small mammals and a
LOT of insects. We had a cat who was a total moth fiend. She'd go
outside every day at sunset when we'd have the lights on and pounce on
moths for an hour or so. Then when she came in she was so full she'd
quite often not want any dinner.

Why people decide their precious Fluffy is "fussy" and will only eat one
or two flavours of a particular food is beyond me. There are no "fussy"
wild cats except for cheetahs, and they almost became extinct because of
it.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>>
>> "RanC)e at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> >Nad R > wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Julie Bove" > wrote:
>> > > >
>> >>> I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children
>> > unless it >>> is medically warranted because when you eliminate all
>> grains you > eliminate >>> certain vitamins. And it might not work
>> for a very active person > because >>> of
>> >>> the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight
>> loss > and >>> GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like
>> a sensible way > for >>> anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then
>> it's not my diet.
>> > >
>> > > I would agree, except for one thing that would cause me to have
>> > > kids undergo an extreme diet and that would be Autism. However,
>> > > we will not know the answer to this until the OP responds.
>> >
>> > I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>> > Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>> > gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
>> > almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have
>> > three boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are
>> > looking for a possible food related reason for their suffering. We
>> > have done skin tests for allergies and will be doing a blood test
>> > after this if we find nothing through the diet. I am cooking this
>> > way in general because I have seven children and don't want to do
>> > two different meals three times a day. I don't want to tempt/tease
>> > those on the elimination diet, and I don't want the hassle of
>> > cooking six meals a day.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>>
>> But you did say Paleo and grain are not allowed on Paleo. My
>> daughter's eczema was from wheat. But I know other foods can cause
>> it.
>
> Julie, give the lady a break. She's doing a 'paleo-like' elimination
> diet, not the full blown version. By removing the most likely related
> components, she may see improvement (I sincerely hope so!).

There is nothing paleo-like in what she is doing. That's why I am surprised
she even put it in there. That diet is very specific and is for weight
loss.

In article
>,
Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:


> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and almonds.
> We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three boys with
> very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for a possible
> food related reason for their suffering. We have done skin tests for
> allergies and will be doing a blood test after this if we find nothing
> through the diet. I am cooking this way in general because I have seven
> children and don't want to do two different meals three times a day. I
> don't want to tempt/tease those on the elimination diet, and I don't
> want the hassle of cooking six meals a day.
>
Ranee,

King Arthur Flour now has a gluten-free flour mix that may meet your
needs. It may be available at a QFC, Albertson's, or Whole Paych--I
mean, Whole Foods--in your area. Friends of ours have a daughter who
was recently diagnosed with celiac disease, and they have used the KA
mix successfully. Hemp milk may be another option besides coconut milk
for this elimination diet. Coconut milk has very little protein, which
would be of concern with growing kids.

Another idea that popped into my brain--maybe it's not an
allergy/intolerance, but an essential fatty acid (linoleic or linolenic)
deficiency. This can cause dry skin problems and eczema. I admit this
is a bit far-fetched since you're not seeing it in all of the children.
Are the affected boys the older ones?

Good luck!
Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> Julie Bove wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>> >
>> > "RanC)e at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > In article >,
>> > >Nad R > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>"Julie Bove" > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > >>> I personally am not sure this would be the way to go for children
>> > > unless it >>> is medically warranted because when you eliminate all
>> > grains you > eliminate >>> certain vitamins. And it might not work
>> > for a very active person > because >>> of
>> > >>> the low carbs. From what I have read online, Paleo is for weight
>> > loss > and >>> GAPS is for digestion issues. GAPS to me sounds like
>> > a sensible way > for >>> anyone to eat. Paleo does not. But then
>> > it's not my diet.
>> > > >
>> > > > I would agree, except for one thing that would cause me to have
>> > > > kids undergo an extreme diet and that would be Autism. However,
>> > > > we will not know the answer to this until the OP responds.
>> > >
>> > > I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>> > > Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>> > > gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
>> > > almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have
>> > > three boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are
>> > > looking for a possible food related reason for their suffering. We
>> > > have done skin tests for allergies and will be doing a blood test
>> > > after this if we find nothing through the diet. I am cooking this
>> > > way in general because I have seven children and don't want to do
>> > > two different meals three times a day. I don't want to tempt/tease
>> > > those on the elimination diet, and I don't want the hassle of
>> > > cooking six meals a day.
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>> >
>> > But you did say Paleo and grain are not allowed on Paleo. My
>> > daughter's eczema was from wheat. But I know other foods can cause
>> > it.
>>
>> Julie, give the lady a break. She's doing a 'paleo-like' elimination
>> diet, not the full blown version. By removing the most likely related
>> components, she may see improvement (I sincerely hope so!).
>
> I also explained exactly what kind of elimination diet I was doing in
> the post. I was just trying to find general terms that would give an
> idea of what I was looking for, in a broad sense.

Well Paleo doesn't seem to fit at all IMO.

Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> In article
>> >,
>> Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>>> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>>> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>>> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
>>> almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three
>>> boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for
>>> a possible food related reason for their suffering.
>
> You have my sympathy. In my son's eczema we found the culprit was
> artificial food colourings, especially yellow and red ones. They were
> then very common in commercial soft drinks, juices and sweets; and
> some medications. Other things I found helpful; all his clothes and
> bedding were 100% cotton and laundered with a Swiss detergent called
> Filetti. And, he used no soap or lotions AT ALL for washing himself.
> Even for an exceptionally muddy/messy child, plain water works fine
> :-)

Soap can be a big one. I have not only eczema but psoriasis. Or I did.
*knock wood* No flairs at the moment. I gave up using most all soap except
for on my hands. During the summer if it is hot and I am sweating I will
use a bar of coconut and lavender soap that is made locally. Most of the
time though I use plain water. But once a week or more if my skin seems to
be dry, I will use Dove Nutritum body wash. Since I have started using that
I rarely ever need additional moisturizer.

I do have to be careful what I use in the bath though. I had used some
shampoo with wheat in it on my hair. Worked great for me but... I knew
something was amiss when daughter took a bath and her eczema came back. We
have to be super careful with all cosmetics. Wheat and almond oil are very
common. Some things have peanut oil. And some nail polish has soy in it.

Julie Bove > wrote:

> There is nothing paleo-like in what she is doing. That's why I am
> surprised she even put it in there.

I think of "paleo" as more of a buzzword than an exact term.


Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>> There is nothing paleo-like in what she is doing. That's why I am
>> surprised she even put it in there.
>
> I think of "paleo" as more of a buzzword than an exact term.

If you do a search on it, it is an actual diet and there are books being
sold about it. Lemme see if I can dig up the list of allowable foods.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/pal...eodietfood.htm

Towards the bottom is a link for foods that are not allowed. If you click
it, you will see that no grains or tubers of any kind are allowed. So this
is not the diet she is following.

shay butter the pure stuff, nothing added is the only thing i use now, and
in my quest to reduce the clutter/too many things, it has replaced the hair
ball control for the cats also, Lee
"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
> Janet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>>>> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>>>> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>>>> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and
>>>> almonds. We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three
>>>> boys with very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for
>>>> a possible food related reason for their suffering.
>>
>> You have my sympathy. In my son's eczema we found the culprit was
>> artificial food colourings, especially yellow and red ones. They were
>> then very common in commercial soft drinks, juices and sweets; and
>> some medications. Other things I found helpful; all his clothes and
>> bedding were 100% cotton and laundered with a Swiss detergent called
>> Filetti. And, he used no soap or lotions AT ALL for washing himself.
>> Even for an exceptionally muddy/messy child, plain water works fine
>> :-)
>
> Soap can be a big one. I have not only eczema but psoriasis. Or I did.
> *knock wood* No flairs at the moment. I gave up using most all soap
> except for on my hands. During the summer if it is hot and I am sweating
> I will use a bar of coconut and lavender soap that is made locally. Most
> of the time though I use plain water. But once a week or more if my skin
> seems to be dry, I will use Dove Nutritum body wash. Since I have started
> using that I rarely ever need additional moisturizer.
>
> I do have to be careful what I use in the bath though. I had used some
> shampoo with wheat in it on my hair. Worked great for me but... I knew
> something was amiss when daughter took a bath and her eczema came back.
> We have to be super careful with all cosmetics. Wheat and almond oil are
> very common. Some things have peanut oil. And some nail polish has soy
> in it.
>

which brings up something else, and i am sure with as many children as you
have this may not be possible, do the children with the issue eat
differently in any way than the ones without it, i know you serve them all
the same thing, but in snacks do they gravitate to even different fruits? or
maybe one group goes for a second helping of green vegtables where the other
would prefer a second helping of starch, i am not if it makes a difference
or is even something you can quantify but i thought i should ention it as
since they all belong to the same parents, all eat/are offerred the same
foods, all live the same lifestyle, for the most part they should in general
react the same,.. hop that makes sense, Lee
"Cindy Fuller" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
>
>> I am the OP, and I never said we needed to eliminate all grains.
>> Read the original post. We are doing a two week elimination diet of
>> gluten, wheat, dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and almonds.
>> We will begin testing those on the 15th day. I have three boys with
>> very, very dry skin, two with eczema. We are looking for a possible
>> food related reason for their suffering. We have done skin tests for
>> allergies and will be doing a blood test after this if we find nothing
>> through the diet. I am cooking this way in general because I have seven
>> children and don't want to do two different meals three times a day. I
>> don't want to tempt/tease those on the elimination diet, and I don't
>> want the hassle of cooking six meals a day.
>>
> Ranee,
>
> King Arthur Flour now has a gluten-free flour mix that may meet your
> needs. It may be available at a QFC, Albertson's, or Whole Paych--I
> mean, Whole Foods--in your area. Friends of ours have a daughter who
> was recently diagnosed with celiac disease, and they have used the KA
> mix successfully. Hemp milk may be another option besides coconut milk
> for this elimination diet. Coconut milk has very little protein, which
> would be of concern with growing kids.
>
> Another idea that popped into my brain--maybe it's not an
> allergy/intolerance, but an essential fatty acid (linoleic or linolenic)
> deficiency. This can cause dry skin problems and eczema. I admit this
> is a bit far-fetched since you're not seeing it in all of the children.
> Are the affected boys the older ones?
>
> Good luck!
> Cindy
>
> --
> C.J. Fuller
>
> Delete the obvious to email me

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> The doctor and we don't really suspect most of the things on the list,
> just because of how little we eat them. However, gluten or wheat might
> be the culprit. The other thing she mentioned was a vitamin B and DHA
> deficiency, so we are giving supplements for that.

For me it seems to be the sun, evenm though I never sunbathe. I use an
ointment made with calendula (marigolds) and it works great. I use coconut
oil based hair conditioner to control scalp dryness. That works too. I
make my own shampoo from oat milk I make mixed 10% decent shampoo 90% oat
milk. That helps a lot.

My child had her worst breakout when I dabbed nailpolish on at her pleading.
Argh! Banana fingers. She uses no soap to wash and has a prescribed hand
cleaner for after toilet use.

It's an autoimmune problem so watch for others over time. Caught quickly
most aren't much of a problem, but allowed to develop some are very
perilous. What you are seeking are triggers, not the cause.

"Cindy Fuller" ha scritto nel messaggio > <
> Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
>
dairy, soy, citrus, strawberries, chocolate and almonds.


.. Hemp milk may be another option besides coconut milk
> for this elimination diet. Coconut milk has very little protein, which
> would be of concern with growing kids.

The problem with all of these is they aren't milk. People who substitute
them tend to think they are providing equal nutrition, but these are all
really juices and compounds. I'm hoping Ranee's little ones can tolerate
milk, because being sure of substitutes and the quality of nutrition in them
is problematic.