Brownies don't turn out right with butter
 

We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
butter?

Jimbo wrote:
> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
> use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
> when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
> uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
> that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
> unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
> butter?
>
>


Butter and margarine should be interchangable, but most of the sticks of
stuff you buy as margarine are not *really* margarine -- they have more
water and less fat than meets the legal definition. What kind of
margarine is Wife using? It should have 100 calories per tablespoon,
and the word "margarine" or "oleomargarine" prominently on the label.

Also, are you sure she used the same recipe?
She also may have overbaked them.

Here's the recipe I use (with margarine, I haven't tried it will real
butter):

Brownies
(adapted from recipe in _Better Homes and Gardens Cookbook_)

1/3 C cocoa
1/2 C flour
1 C sugar
1/2 C butter
2 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1/2 C chopped nuts

Peheat oven to 325°. Sift dry ingredients into mixing bowl. Add
remaining ingredients and beat well. Bake in greased 8x8x2" pan for 35
minutes.

Original recipe called for 2 squares unsweet baking chocolate and (I
think) 1/3 C butter instead of 1/2 C.

This recipe triples well, baked in a 4 quart lasagna pan.

Jimbo wrote:
> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
> use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
> when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
> uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
> that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
> unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
> butter?
>
>


Butter and margarine should be interchangable, but most of the sticks of
stuff you buy as margarine are not *really* margarine -- they have more
water and less fat than meets the legal definition. What kind of
margarine is Wife using? It should have 100 calories per tablespoon,
and the word "margarine" or "oleomargarine" prominently on the label.

Also, are you sure she used the same recipe?
She also may have overbaked them.

Here's the recipe I use (with margarine, I haven't tried it will real
butter):

Brownies
(adapted from recipe in _Better Homes and Gardens Cookbook_)

1/3 C cocoa
1/2 C flour
1 C sugar
1/2 C butter
2 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1/2 C chopped nuts

Peheat oven to 325°. Sift dry ingredients into mixing bowl. Add
remaining ingredients and beat well. Bake in greased 8x8x2" pan for 35
minutes.

Original recipe called for 2 squares unsweet baking chocolate and (I
think) 1/3 C butter instead of 1/2 C.

This recipe triples well, baked in a 4 quart lasagna pan.

Did she try using a little bit of vegetable oil in addition to the
butter? That might keep it a little more moist.

Did she try using a little bit of vegetable oil in addition to the
butter? That might keep it a little more moist.

Jimbo wrote:

> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
> use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
> when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
> uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
> that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
> unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
> butter?
>
>
I swear by the recipe on the Baker's Unsweetened Chocolate for brownies.
As long as they aren't overcooked. And the cheesecake swirl
variation...Yum!

http://www.kraftfoods.com/main.aspx?...ecipe_id=54515

Oh and the Rosie's recipe from the Cambridge, MA bakery by the same
name. I'll dig out that one to post later. Both use butter and both
are perfection. I always use butter.

Jessica

Jimbo wrote:

> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
> use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
> when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
> uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
> that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
> unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
> butter?
>
>
I swear by the recipe on the Baker's Unsweetened Chocolate for brownies.
As long as they aren't overcooked. And the cheesecake swirl
variation...Yum!

http://www.kraftfoods.com/main.aspx?...ecipe_id=54515

Oh and the Rosie's recipe from the Cambridge, MA bakery by the same
name. I'll dig out that one to post later. Both use butter and both
are perfection. I always use butter.

Jessica

"Jimbo" > wrote in message >...
> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine), and
> use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy. However,
> when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very dry. If she
> uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust the recipe so
> that they come out a little moist, without adding something that is
> unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean REAL
> butter?

The way how you make the brownie can influence the result...
If you make such item like a normal cake where you cream the sugar and
fat, be reminded that the crystal structure of the butter is different
from the margarine .
We have to look it from the point of physical chemistry...
Majority of the butter fat crystals exhibits the so called beta
crystal form, while the margarine is mostly in the beta prime state
specially if the hard fat used is the palm or cottonseed fat flakes
which tend to orient the resulting margarine fat in their beta prime
crystalform ,which is similar to normal shortening.
This difference will result that in many cases the creaming potential
of margarine is better than butter due to that fat crytal
characteristic. Therefore you can incorporate more air in the mixture
with margarine than with butter.That is presuming that the they are
identical in the amount of fat contenti,e >80%.It will be a different
story if the fat content is lesser than that such is so called diet
margarines which will exhibit inferior creaming performance due to
more moisture.
Now if the fat has better creaming peformance it will result in a more
moist baked product due to better emulsification and aeration.
That is the reason if you make your brownie like a cake.
But if you make a brownine just lie any all in method, as long as the
fat content are the same they will behave similarly in that process;
but if you are using a low fat margarine then butter will result in a
better product in that case.
Roy

at Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:32:28 GMT in >,
(Jimbo) wrote :

>We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine),
>and use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy.
>However, when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out
>very dry. If she uses margarine, they are moist, just right.

You'll need to tinker with recipe proportions, and possibly with baking
times and temperatures. Butter and margarine do generally lead to slightly
different results because the fat properties aren't identical. Margarines
also commonly have various emulsifiers, which help the fat disperse better
and this can have a major impact.

Let's be clear what you mean by dry, too. Is the real difference that the
margarine brownies turn out less dense and more cake-like? Butter will tend
to create denser brownies (and cakes) compared to margarine for otherwise
identical recipes. If this is your real problem, then the solution is to
increase, slightly, the proportion of eggs.

If, OTOH, you are having problems with actual dryness, with the resulting
brownie turning out crumbly and coarse, then a set of different adjustments
is called for. You should decrease the amount of flour and increase the
amount of sugar. As you increase the amount of sugar, the brownie will lean
first chewy and then fudgy, so you need to know what kind of final result
you're looking for, but with that in mind it's usually possible to make the
necessary adjustments.

Which does your recipe call for, chocolate or cocoa? This is important,
because chocolate tends to lead to a drier result because of the cocoa
butter (another fat with yet-different properties). If it does call for
chocolate, depending on the type, there are different things you should do.
If the type of chocolate is semi-sweet or bittersweet, decrease the
chocolate proportion slightly while using a higher-cocoa-solids-percentage
chocolate. So if the recipe originally specified 12 oz. semisweet, and the
cocoa solids percentage of the semisweet chocolate you used were 55%, then
adjusting it to 9 1/2 oz bittersweet chocolate with 70% cocoa solids would
be an appropriate substitution. The idea is that you'd retain the same
essential amount of chocolate flavour, but since most chocolates are fairly
consistent when it comes to cocoa butter content (most quality chocolate
hovers around 40%), you'd be decreasing the amount of cocoa butter.

If, OTOH, the recipe calls for unsweetened chocolate, then increase the
amount of butter somewhat. The idea is to decrease the relative proportion
of cocoa butter as a percentage of the total fat. Again, assuming the
problem were dryness, then you'd want to increase the amount of butter and
decrease the amount of flour by like amounts in terms of weight.

Another option, if you're using good-quality semisweet or bittersweet, is
to substitute chocolate chips which actually do have lower cocoa butter.
The chocolate chips to use are Ghirardelli. If the recipe called for
semisweet chocolate, use the regular (yellow-bag) Ghirardelli chocolate
chips. If it called for bittersweet, use the Double Chocolate (brown-bag)
chips.

I can't resist mentioning that if you are using Baker's brand chocolate,
then your first step should be to throw it all away and buy yourself at
least good chocolate from Ghirardelli or Callebaut. Baker's is so
atrociously bad in every possible way that I wouldn't even feed it to my
worst enemy in a poisoned cake.

The other issue is oven temperatures, timings, and dough temperature.
Butter has a sharper melting point than margarine, and it's the melting of
the fat that is one of the strongest contributors to moistness. In the case
of butter, that means that you want to bake it for slightly shorter times
than for margarine, and you can get away with a lower temperature. I
recommend adjusting the time first. Also, if the butter is partway towards
melting before the dough gets to the oven in the first place, this will
magnify the dryness problem. So it pays to chill the dough thoroughly once
mixed before it goes in the oven. It's best to spread it into the pan (or
pour it, if it's batter-like in consistency), then put it in the fridge for
at least 30 minutes or so. Then bake. Don't follow timings slavishly. With
anything chocolate, the time to take it out is generally when the chocolate
smell becomes most intense. (There's a point when the smell will transform
from merely a mild, pleasant overall chocolate aroma to a driving, powerful
smell permeating the kitchen). Certainly take it out before the chocolate
begins to scorch (suddenly the aroma becomes coffee-like)

So the idea is that yes, you can adjust the recipe, but it will usually
take a few experiments to arrive at the exact result you wanted. Can you
post the recipe you're using now? This will help everyone on the NG dissect
it and offer more specific recommendations.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

at Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:32:28 GMT in >,
(Jimbo) wrote :

>We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine),
>and use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy.
>However, when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out
>very dry. If she uses margarine, they are moist, just right.

You'll need to tinker with recipe proportions, and possibly with baking
times and temperatures. Butter and margarine do generally lead to slightly
different results because the fat properties aren't identical. Margarines
also commonly have various emulsifiers, which help the fat disperse better
and this can have a major impact.

Let's be clear what you mean by dry, too. Is the real difference that the
margarine brownies turn out less dense and more cake-like? Butter will tend
to create denser brownies (and cakes) compared to margarine for otherwise
identical recipes. If this is your real problem, then the solution is to
increase, slightly, the proportion of eggs.

If, OTOH, you are having problems with actual dryness, with the resulting
brownie turning out crumbly and coarse, then a set of different adjustments
is called for. You should decrease the amount of flour and increase the
amount of sugar. As you increase the amount of sugar, the brownie will lean
first chewy and then fudgy, so you need to know what kind of final result
you're looking for, but with that in mind it's usually possible to make the
necessary adjustments.

Which does your recipe call for, chocolate or cocoa? This is important,
because chocolate tends to lead to a drier result because of the cocoa
butter (another fat with yet-different properties). If it does call for
chocolate, depending on the type, there are different things you should do.
If the type of chocolate is semi-sweet or bittersweet, decrease the
chocolate proportion slightly while using a higher-cocoa-solids-percentage
chocolate. So if the recipe originally specified 12 oz. semisweet, and the
cocoa solids percentage of the semisweet chocolate you used were 55%, then
adjusting it to 9 1/2 oz bittersweet chocolate with 70% cocoa solids would
be an appropriate substitution. The idea is that you'd retain the same
essential amount of chocolate flavour, but since most chocolates are fairly
consistent when it comes to cocoa butter content (most quality chocolate
hovers around 40%), you'd be decreasing the amount of cocoa butter.

If, OTOH, the recipe calls for unsweetened chocolate, then increase the
amount of butter somewhat. The idea is to decrease the relative proportion
of cocoa butter as a percentage of the total fat. Again, assuming the
problem were dryness, then you'd want to increase the amount of butter and
decrease the amount of flour by like amounts in terms of weight.

Another option, if you're using good-quality semisweet or bittersweet, is
to substitute chocolate chips which actually do have lower cocoa butter.
The chocolate chips to use are Ghirardelli. If the recipe called for
semisweet chocolate, use the regular (yellow-bag) Ghirardelli chocolate
chips. If it called for bittersweet, use the Double Chocolate (brown-bag)
chips.

I can't resist mentioning that if you are using Baker's brand chocolate,
then your first step should be to throw it all away and buy yourself at
least good chocolate from Ghirardelli or Callebaut. Baker's is so
atrociously bad in every possible way that I wouldn't even feed it to my
worst enemy in a poisoned cake.

The other issue is oven temperatures, timings, and dough temperature.
Butter has a sharper melting point than margarine, and it's the melting of
the fat that is one of the strongest contributors to moistness. In the case
of butter, that means that you want to bake it for slightly shorter times
than for margarine, and you can get away with a lower temperature. I
recommend adjusting the time first. Also, if the butter is partway towards
melting before the dough gets to the oven in the first place, this will
magnify the dryness problem. So it pays to chill the dough thoroughly once
mixed before it goes in the oven. It's best to spread it into the pan (or
pour it, if it's batter-like in consistency), then put it in the fridge for
at least 30 minutes or so. Then bake. Don't follow timings slavishly. With
anything chocolate, the time to take it out is generally when the chocolate
smell becomes most intense. (There's a point when the smell will transform
from merely a mild, pleasant overall chocolate aroma to a driving, powerful
smell permeating the kitchen). Certainly take it out before the chocolate
begins to scorch (suddenly the aroma becomes coffee-like)

So the idea is that yes, you can adjust the recipe, but it will usually
take a few experiments to arrive at the exact result you wanted. Can you
post the recipe you're using now? This will help everyone on the NG dissect
it and offer more specific recommendations.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

When you make brownies the melted butter /chocolate mixture needs to be room
temp when added to the beaten egg sugar mixture that shoulds also be at room
temp. (This hint came from Julia Child a long time ago.)


"Jimbo" > wrote in message
...
> We are trying to get away from using any artificial butter (margarine),
> and use only the real thing, as the margarines are very unhealthy.
> However, when my wife makes brownies with real butter, they turn out very
> dry. If she uses margarine, they are moist, just right. How can you adjust
> the recipe so that they come out a little moist, without adding something
> that is unhealthy back in? When recipes call for "butter" don't they mean
> REAL butter?
>