Kent wrote:

> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Mort wrote:
>>
>>>Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>
> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>See:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266
>>>>>http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I saw both of those and don't agree with either. You have to find a
>>>>valid
>>>>source from France that substantiates what Christine is saying. I can't.
>>>>I've looked at Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pelliprat, Elizabeth David,
>>>>two
>>>>editions of the Larrouse, and I haven't found anything that ties "rouge"
>>>>to
>>>>red wine. I'm holding Escoffier in my hand as I write this.
>>
>> Page 33 of Le guide Culinaire?
>>
>>Red Colouring Butter
>>
>>"Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and
>>inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound
>>them until fine.
>>
>>Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain
>>marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a
>>muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the
>>resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
>>
>>Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter,
>>paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to
>>use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces."
>>
>>I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise
>>it seems easy enough.
>>--
>>JL
>>
>>
>
> Red Coloring Butter, listed also as Beurre Rouge on P. 33.
>
> The recipe for beurre rouge is almost the same in the two editions of the
> Larousse Gastronomique I have.
>
> Kent

There is a usage that i don't understand. It is: cordon rouge. As in
Chicken Cordon Rouge, for example.

The term Cordon Blue has a easily documented provenance, Cordon Rouge
less so.

Obviously its an honorific of some sort i am just not sure of what
beyond any sort of metaphorical gold star.

In which case a white butter might be called Beurre Cordon Rouge?

What i am seeing when i google beurre rouge is a sauce. Not a compound
butter like lobster butter or paprika butter or rose butter.
Green, brown and black butter, buerre noir

But the only references to quantities of solid butter, rather than a
sauce, that i can find, called beurre rouge are of the old school French
type cited, but are NOT sauces.
--
JL

M. JL Esq. wrote:


>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266

Hmmmmm.....thats what i would call a reduction sauce or a pan sauce and
it seems to me almost a Bernaise or small white compound sauce, sauce
aux fine herbs, Sauce Mousseuse? "This preparation although classified
as a sauce is more a compound butter for serving with boiled fish. The
heat of the fish is then sufficient to melt this sauce and its
appearance and flavour are infinitely better than that of ordinary
melted butter."

>>>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839

Shouldn't that be scallops with beurre rouge sauce, coquilles au sauce
beurre rouge?
--

"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message
...
> M. JL Esq. wrote:
>
>
>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266
>
> Hmmmmm.....thats what i would call a reduction sauce or a pan sauce and
> it seems to me almost a Bernaise or small white compound sauce, sauce aux
> fine herbs, Sauce Mousseuse? "This preparation although classified as a
> sauce is more a compound butter for serving with boiled fish. The heat of
> the fish is then sufficient to melt this sauce and its appearance and
> flavour are infinitely better than that of ordinary melted butter."
>
>>>>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839
>
> Shouldn't that be scallops with beurre rouge sauce, coquilles au sauce
> beurre rouge?
> --
>
I think you're right on. It seems the long length of this thread has been
tied to nomenclature more than anything else. Julia in Mastering the Art
calls Beurre Blanc a sauce in the "Hot Butter Sauces" category. Her dialogue
says "nothing but butter flavored with ...."

I propose Beurre au Monte Blanc and Beurre au Monte Rouges, Mounted Butter
White and Red.

Kent

Paul wrote:

> As I recall 5-10 cups was about the yield for his turtle soup which
> required an entire live sea turtle. I sure don't have the recipe handy,
> no. Is it wasteful to kill a sea turtle for a few bowls of soup? In my
> view it is an obscenity. I also seem to remember his recipe for chicken
> soup which was essentially 20 chickens cooked down to 1 quart of base
> which made about a gallon of soup. People were starving to death back
> then.
>
> Was the soup(s) good? They were probably to die for. I am sure of that.

Grant Achatz's "Next" venture will (for a three-month period) be cooking
recipes from that era, if you want to verify your opinion personally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/di...pagewanted=all

"When this new restaurant, Next, serves its first customers on April 1, its
menu will be painstakingly reproduced from the classical French repertoi
whole lobes of foie gras baked in brioche, clear turtle soup with Madeira,
duck pressed and sauced with its own blood and marrow, as served at the Tour
d’Argent in Paris for more than 200 years."

Bob

Kent wrote:

> To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in food
> and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times bought
> 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced it to
> espagnole, and to demiglace.

In your mind, what exactly is meant by the terms "espagnole" and
"demiglace"?

Bob

Christine wrote about http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458:

> And maybe, before you entirely dismiss this sauce that Ripert makes,
> try it.. It might be quite extraordinary...in terms of a butter
> sauce..and it might just be perfect thing with that roast. Don't
> knock it before you have tried it.

It's a matter of taste, of course. I think it might be nice, but PERFECT?
I'm not so sure. Maybe Nathan Myhrvold needs to weigh in on creating the
perfect sauce for roasted beef tenderloin. :-)


> And if you have made beurre blanc countless times, you should have
> recognized the method right away, the the principles behind making it.
> They are all in there, with this sauce, which is....a mounted butter
> sauce!

I'd change the recipe in two ways. First, I think the roast is supposed to
be removed from the pan onto a platter while it rests, and the resting
juices from the platter are supposed to be added to the sauce. I don't think
adding the roasting-pan juices would be a good thing because it would
contribute beef fat and some burnt flavors which I don't think would be
welcome. Second, I think the roast needs to be rested for at least fifteen
minutes rather than the five minutes specified.

Bob

Christine wrote:

> you can deglaze a pan with wine and then add butter. But
> will you have produced some sort of beurre blanc/rouge? Not to my
> knowledge. As it has be said before..the base has to be rather
> acidic..and starting out with meat drippings is far from the concept
> of a beurre blanc/rouge or a mounted butter sauce.

I don't believe the liquid really has to be acidic. One of the sauces in
NOMA is just butter and seawater.

Bob

Joseph wrote:

> Red Colouring Butter
>
> "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and
> inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound
> them until fine.
>
> Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain
> marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a
> muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the
> resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
>
> Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter,
> paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to
> use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces."
>
> I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise
> it seems easy enough.

Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter, the
water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
b.com...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in
>> food
>> and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times bought
>> 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced it to
>> espagnole, and to demiglace.
>
> In your mind, what exactly is meant by the terms "espagnole" and
> "demiglace"?
>
> Bob
>
I think all cooking is subservient to French cooking because of this French
emphasis on stock and sauce. That's what makes any dish great, regardless of
its ethnicity.

All of this is pretty much from memory, as I haven't done the full blown in
a number of years.

1. First, Stock

a. Get beef and veal remnants from a local butcher, or what's leftover after
the meat is butchered.
b. Brown in oven for 1.5 hours or so at 32 5F or so, until lightly brown
c. All goes into stock pot. Add carrots, onion and celery.
d. Simmer at a fine ebulation for 6+ hours. I've gone as lone as 10 hours.
e. Drain. Separate fat with a separator funnel.

2. Next, Brown Sauce or espangole - I've never called it the latter

a. Make brown roux
b. Add to drained fat separated stock
c. Add very a small amount of tomato paste, only to enrich, not for taste
d. At a fine simmer reduce to where it has the taste you're looking for,
with or without miripoix

3. Finally, Demiglace

a. Add an equal amount of stock to above brown sauce
b. Slowly simmer and simmer until you get a demiglace.

Use about 30% veal, at least. Veal gives it the richness that makes this
worthwhile. It thickens in gelatinous fashion the demiglace.
I used to get beef remnants free from local butchers when they butchered
beef halves. I remember a great small Italian market in North Beach in SF.
Now, all beef comes in smaller pieces, and nothing to speak of is left over.
As well all parts of the cow are now worth money, and anything beef is
$1/lb. I still can get veal remnants free. That's not a commodity yet.

Thanks for the question. I hadn't thought about this for some time.

Kent

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
b.com...
> Christine wrote about
> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458:
>
>> And maybe, before you entirely dismiss this sauce that Ripert makes,
>> try it.. It might be quite extraordinary...in terms of a butter
>> sauce..and it might just be perfect thing with that roast. Don't
>> knock it before you have tried it.
>
> It's a matter of taste, of course. I think it might be nice, but PERFECT?
> I'm not so sure. Maybe Nathan Myhrvold needs to weigh in on creating the
> perfect sauce for roasted beef tenderloin. :-)
>
>
>> And if you have made beurre blanc countless times, you should have
>> recognized the method right away, the the principles behind making it.
>> They are all in there, with this sauce, which is....a mounted butter
>> sauce!
>
> I'd change the recipe in two ways. First, I think the roast is supposed to
> be removed from the pan onto a platter while it rests, and the resting
> juices from the platter are supposed to be added to the sauce. I don't
> think
> adding the roasting-pan juices would be a good thing because it would
> contribute beef fat and some burnt flavors which I don't think would be
> welcome. Second, I think the roast needs to be rested for at least fifteen
> minutes rather than the five minutes specified.
>
> Bob
>
That is one of my criticisms about this recipe. Pouring saute remnants and
fat into your sauce will make a mess of it, and questionably add flavor.
Deglazing the pan with wine will add a bit of beef flavor. Deglaze, strain,
separate and add that to the sauce before you add butter.

If Eric Ripert wanted to have a plain sauce beurre au monte rouges, that's
certainly appropriate. I think it is a mistake, however, to pour in the
saute drippings.

Kent

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
b.com...
> Joseph wrote:
>
>> Red Colouring Butter
>>
>> "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and
>> inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound
>> them until fine.
>>
>> Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain
>> marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a
>> muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the
>> resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
>>
>> Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter,
>> paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to
>> use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces."
>>
>> I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other
>> wise
>> it seems easy enough.
>
> Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter,
> the
> water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.
>
> Bob
>
I think the idea of a beurre blanc, or beurre au monte blanc or rouges sauce
is that something in the aqueous part of the butter emulsifies with the cold
pieces of butter, but only a specifc temperature. It only lasts for a short
period of time and falls apart.

Kent

In article m>,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Joseph wrote:

> > allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a
> > muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the
> > resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.

> > I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise
> > it seems easy enough.
>
> Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter, the
> water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.

You pour it into water. Wouldn't that get it wet? Am I missing
something obvious here?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article m>,
> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:
>
>
>>Joseph wrote:
>
>
>>>allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a
>>>muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the
>>>resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
>
>
>>>I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise
>>>it seems easy enough.
>>
>>Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter, the
>>water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.
>
>
> You pour it into water. Wouldn't that get it wet? Am I missing
> something obvious here?
>
Apparently i did, i read the words as wrote but in my head saw an empty
bowl setting in another bowl of ice water to catch the butter.
I didn't grasp that the butter was being poured into the cold water.
--
JL

Joseph wrote:

>>>> allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a muslin held
>>>> over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the resultant
>>>> butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
>>
>>>> I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other
>>>> wise it seems easy enough.
>>>
>>> Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter,
>>> the water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.
>>
>> You pour it into water. Wouldn't that get it wet? Am I missing
>> something obvious here?
>>
> Apparently i did, i read the words as wrote but in my head saw an empty
> bowl setting in another bowl of ice water to catch the butter.
> I didn't grasp that the butter was being poured into the cold water.

I made the same mistake.

Bob

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 04:58:35 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> Joseph wrote:
>
> >>>> allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a muslin held
> >>>> over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the resultant
> >>>> butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water.
> >>
> >>>> I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other
> >>>> wise it seems easy enough.
> >>>
> >>> Butter contains butterfat, water, and milk solids. When you melt butter,
> >>> the water and milk solids end up on the bottom of the pot.
> >>
> >> You pour it into water. Wouldn't that get it wet? Am I missing
> >> something obvious here?
> >>
> > Apparently i did, i read the words as wrote but in my head saw an empty
> > bowl setting in another bowl of ice water to catch the butter.
> > I didn't grasp that the butter was being poured into the cold water.
>
> I made the same mistake.
>
It's a logical mistake. I'd make a wager that not very many people
here have even heard of liquefied butter poured directly into ice
water. Like Mom used to say: There's a first time for everything.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

Christine wrote:

> The method is what is important. It is a mounted butter sauce, which
> is what Ripert's sauce is as well. The method is the same as making
> it with white wine, only he uses red wine and vinegar, essentially
> producing beurre rouge (RED). The fact that he doesn't call it that,
> other than red wine butter sauce is unimportant..the method is what
> counts.
>
> That small amount of liquid has to be acidic...for butter to mount
> properly, as Julia Child so states. Hence the vinegar and wine. Not
> just any old liquid...


I made this dish tonight; it's from _Molto Gusto_, by Mario Batali and Mark
Ladner:

Radishes with Butter Dressing

6 tablespoons butter, melted
2 tablespoons very warm water
1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
1 pound radishes, preferably French Breakfast radishes, trimmed and halved
lengthwise
Maldon or other flaky sea salt

Whisk the butter, water, and oil together in a small bowl until emulsified.
Put the radishes on a serving plate, drizzle with the dressing, season with
salt, and serve. Or serve the dressing alongside for dipping.


There's no acid in the dressing, but it emulsifies just fine. (The radish
dish is pretty tasty, too!)

Bob

On 3/21/2011 1:25 PM, sf wrote:

> The recipe tells you to choose between champagne vinegar or white wine
> vinegar. I have champagne vinegar on hand, so I'd use that.
>
I don't think I've ever seen champagne vinegar. Will have to look.

On 3/23/2011 2:53 PM, Kent wrote:
> Of interest, I just noticed that the picture of the chateaubriand shows a
> slight brown ring and the meat looks overly rare in the center.
>
> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458

That does look good. I've never cooked a whole tenderloin, but I saw
Alton Brown prepare one. When it says to trim it, does that just mean
the silverskin?