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Chateaubriand ideas
"sf" > wrote in message news > On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:18:25 -0700, "Kent" > > wrote: > >> >> "sf" > wrote in message >> ... >> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 00:52:51 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I have 2, 2 pound Kansas City Steakhouse Chateuabriand cuts from >> >> Costco. >> >> Really fine looking cuts of meat I must admit. How would you cook >> >> them? >> >> I >> >> am thinking a nice sauce of some kind, perhaps brandy, cream and >> >> peppercorn. >> >> Not quite sure. Do I cut these into medallions or do I cook them >> >> whole? >> >> How would hey work as the base for steak au poivre? >> >> >> > I think if you cut them into thick steaks (I would), your pepper cream >> > sauce would be fine, but I'd want to make bernaise >> > http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/i...ipe/index.html! >> > >> > -- >> Sauce Béarnaise goes very well with filet. It's very, very rich. You just >> need a small amount. We used to make it frequently when cholesterol >> wasn't >> an issue. >> In this recipe, however, she says "1/4 cup champagne or 1/4 cup >> vinegar"?? >> I'd search out a better recipe. There are lots. >> > The recipe tells you to choose between champagne vinegar or white wine > vinegar. I have champagne vinegar on hand, so I'd use that. > > I misread it. |
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Chateaubriand ideas
M. JL Esq. wrote:
> Mort wrote: >> Kent wrote: >> >>> > wrote in message >>> >>>> See: >>>> >>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266 >>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 >>>> >>>> >>> I saw both of those and don't agree with either. You have to find a >>> valid >>> source from France that substantiates what Christine is saying. I can't. >>> I've looked at Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pelliprat, Elizabeth David, >>> two >>> editions of the Larrouse, and I haven't found anything that ties >>> "rouge" to >>> red wine. I'm holding Escoffier in my hand as I write this. > > Page 33 of Le guide Culinaire? > > Red Colouring Butter > > "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and > inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound > them until fine. > > Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain > marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a > muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the > resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water. > > Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter, > paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to > use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces." > > I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other > wise it seems easy enough. > -- > JL That's not a Beurre-Rouge. Certainly not as it's known today. When you order a Beurre-Rouge in France (or anywhere) you'll be served a red wine reduction emulsified with butter. How to Make Beurre Rouge http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Mak...ouge-215137906 Let me ask you Escoffier worshipers a question. Where do you go to find recipes (and definitions) that were developed after that fine work was published in the year 1907 ? Or are you under the impression the entire culinary world came to a stop a hundred years ago? -- Mort |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Mort wrote:
> Kent wrote: > >> > wrote in message >> >>> See: >>> >>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266 >>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 >>> >>> >> I saw both of those and don't agree with either. You have to find a valid >> source from France that substantiates what Christine is saying. I can't. >> I've looked at Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pelliprat, Elizabeth David, two >> editions of the Larrouse, and I haven't found anything that ties >> "rouge" to >> red wine. I'm holding Escoffier in my hand as I write this. Page 33 of Le guide Culinaire? Red Colouring Butter "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound them until fine. Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water. Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter, paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces." I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise it seems easy enough. -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
M. JL Esq. wrote:
> Mort wrote: > >> Let me ask you Escoffier worshipers a question. Where do you go to find >> recipes (and definitions) that were developed after that fine work was >> published in the year 1907 ? Or are you under the impression the entire >> culinary world came to a stop a hundred years ago? >> > > Try rephrasing that without the sarcasm and you might get an answer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question -- Mort |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Mort wrote:
> Let me ask you Escoffier worshipers a question. Where do you go to find > recipes (and definitions) that were developed after that fine work was > published in the year 1907 ? Or are you under the impression the entire > culinary world came to a stop a hundred years ago? > Try rephrasing that without the sarcasm and you might get an answer. -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message ... > Mort wrote: >> Kent wrote: >> >>> > wrote in message >>> >>>> See: >>>> >>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266 >>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 >>>> >>> I saw both of those and don't agree with either. You have to find a >>> valid >>> source from France that substantiates what Christine is saying. I can't. >>> I've looked at Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pelliprat, Elizabeth David, >>> two >>> editions of the Larrouse, and I haven't found anything that ties "rouge" >>> to >>> red wine. I'm holding Escoffier in my hand as I write this. > > Page 33 of Le guide Culinaire? > > Red Colouring Butter > > "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and > inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound > them until fine. > > Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain > marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a > muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the > resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water. > > Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter, > paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to > use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces." > > I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other wise > it seems easy enough. > -- > JL > > Red Coloring Butter, listed also as Beurre Rouge on P. 33. The recipe for beurre rouge is almost the same in the two editions of the Larousse Gastronomique I have. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Mort" > wrote in message ... > M. JL Esq. wrote: >> Mort wrote: >>> Kent wrote: >>> >>>> > wrote in message >>>> >>>>> See: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Blanc-233266 >>>>> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I saw both of those and don't agree with either. You have to find a >>>> valid >>>> source from France that substantiates what Christine is saying. I >>>> can't. >>>> I've looked at Raymond Oliver, Henri-Paul Pelliprat, Elizabeth David, >>>> two >>>> editions of the Larrouse, and I haven't found anything that ties >>>> "rouge" to >>>> red wine. I'm holding Escoffier in my hand as I write this. >> >> Page 33 of Le guide Culinaire? >> >> Red Colouring Butter >> >> "Remove any of the remaining flesh and particles from the outside and >> inside of any shellfish shells; dry the shells in a slow oven then pound >> them until fine. >> >> Add and mix in an equal quantity of butter, place this mixture in a bain >> marie pot and allow it to melt stirring frequently. Pass through a >> muslin held over a basin of ice cold water and when solidified place the >> resultant butter in a cloth and squeeze to remove the water. >> >> Note: if shellfish carcasses are not available to prepare this butter, >> paprika butter can be used instead. In any event, it is inadvisable to >> use artificial colourings fo the final colouring of sauces." >> >> I don't understand where the water came from to squeeze out but other >> wise it seems easy enough. >> -- >> JL > > That's not a Beurre-Rouge. Certainly not as it's known today. When you > order a Beurre-Rouge in France (or anywhere) you'll be served a red wine > reduction emulsified with butter. > > How to Make Beurre Rouge > http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Mak...ouge-215137906 > > Let me ask you Escoffier worshipers a question. Where do you go to find > recipes (and definitions) that were developed after that fine work was > published in the year 1907 ? Or are you under the impression the entire > culinary world came to a stop a hundred years ago? > > Mort > > That's definition has remained unchanged to this day in classical French cooking. That's how it's defined in my 1978 edition of the Larrouse. Show us a respected French source that indicates beurre rouge as a red rather than white butter sauce. What's on the internet written by non credentialed sources doesn't mean anything. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 03:45:53 -0700, "Kent" > >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Having said all of that, the Marchand de Vin sauce, which this is, is >>>>just >>>>too buttery. It overwhelms. It won't have enough beef flavor. >>> >>> No, this is not Marchand de Vins sauce. It is a mounted butter sauce, >>> and butter is an important component. It is a Beurre Rouge, based on >>> Beurre Blanc. >>> >>> It does have beef flavor. Did you read the instructions? It says to >>> add the beef juice to it. And mounted butter sauces are NOT built on >>> meat drippings...they are butter sauces. >>> >>> I suggest that you read more about sauces such as beurre blanc and >>> Beurre rouge. It seems they are not within your knowledge that much, >>> although they were within the knowledge of Julia Child and she adored >>> them. >>> >>> Christine >>> -- >>> >> Beurre rouge, in the 1961 edition of the Larousse Gastronomique is >> "lobster butter and butter mixed with other shellfish". That's verbatim. >> The definition of beurre rouge in my later edition is very similar, >> referring to shellfish. > > A quick Google shows a buerre rouge to be a red wine butter sauce suitable > for pretty much anything including seafood. By common definieiton it is > the same as a buerre blanc made only made with red wine and red wine > vinegar. Like this one from Epicurious: > > http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 > > Paul > > Who wrote it? That means nothing. Butter-Red translates to French as Beurre-Rouge. We're talking about Sauce Beurre Blanc, recipies which try to emulsify butter with water. That "water" includes white wine, red wine, pan deglazing, stock, and anything else aqueous. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:33:33 -0700, "Kent" > > wrote: > >>I think when you add anything beef to a beurre blanc it becomes a Marchind >>de vin sauce, even though the author, somewhat inappropriately, added the >>beef drippings after emulsifying the reduced wine/shallot mixture with >>butter. >> >>Kent > > Wrong. Marchand de Vin is not a mounted butter sauce, regardless of > the fact that you want it to be so. It isn't. > > Face it ...it is a different classification of sauce..and while you > may not think it goes well with beef, there a lot of folks that are > highly regarded, who do think so. Not every sauce for beef has to be > based in beef drippings to be good or to go with beef. Sometimes a > contrast is good. > > Christine > -- > When the chef added beef pan drippings to a previously made beurre blanc > he/she converts the sauce to a Marchand de Vin, even though a pretty > marginal one. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:26:54 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message >>>>> ... >>>>>>I have 2, 2 pound Kansas City Steakhouse Chateuabriand cuts from >>>>>>Costco. >>>>>>Really fine looking cuts of meat I must admit. How would you cook >>>>>>them? >>>>>>I am thinking a nice sauce of some kind, perhaps brandy, cream and >>>>>>peppercorn. Not quite sure. Do I cut these into medallions or do I >>>>>>cook >>>>>>them whole? How would hey work as the base for steak au poivre? >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul >>> >>>>My mother sent it to me for my b-day. It was ordered online. Kansas >>>>City >>>>Steakhouse is the brand. >>>> >>>>http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...rodid=11327407 >>>> >>>>Paul >>>> >>> >>> I don't know if you can adapt this to your needs, but this looks >>> really good to me. I have had this on my list to make someday.. >>> This is from Eric Ripert, from his book Avec Eric. >>> >>> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >>> >>> Christine >>> -- >>> >> Christine, the recipe above for the sauce is a horrible recipe. Horrible >> is an understatement. >> . 1 cup dry red wine >> . 1 cup red wine vinegar >> . 1 shallot, thinly sliced >> . 2 tablespoons whole black peppercorns >> . 12 ounces cold unsalted butter, cut into pieces >> One cup of red wine vinegar for two cups of sauce?? The only other liquid >> ingredient is a cup of red wine? Sliced shallots???? 2 tablespoons of >> peppercorns?? 12oz of butter??? Cold Butter?? Horrible is an >> understatement. >> > > I disagree. It looks just fine to me. It reminds me of sauces I've had > in restaurants. You cook the sauce down and then strain it and begin > mounting the butter. It's a classic sauce style. The vinegar "bite" > would be greatly subdued after being cooked. And it is not like you > smother the steak with the sauce. A little goes a long way. I'd probably > make it in a half-batch. > >> For filet mignon you need to have a nice brown sauce. First you make the >> liquid portion with beef stock some wine like madeira , and seasonings. >> To that you can add finely minced sauteed shallots. Then you make and >> thicken it with brown roux. >> http://allrecipes.com//HowTo/making-roux/Detail.aspx . I wouldn't use >> cornstarch, or a beurre manie >> http://www.food.com/recipe/beurre-ma...ickener-117333 for >> a dish this fancy. A strong no on plain butter as a thickener, even in >> small amounts. > > I don't like roux based sauces. I much prefer pan style sauces that are > thickened by coking down and butter and/or demi glace. > > Paul > > If you've never had a roux based sauce you liked you've never had anything prepared by someone who understands stocks and roux, and ingredients. Roux based sauces are the foundation of French cooking, and for all good cooking. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message ... > On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:57:35 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > > wrote: > >>The acid and the butter would make an emulsion that is very silky. Kent >>is >>thinking of an espagnole sauce which is one of the 5 mother sauces. When >>I >>was experimenting with French cooking I used that sauce as a base for >>roast >>beef dishes. It's what Julia did, too. > > Julia details in her book, My Life in France, how she discovered > Beurre Blanc and how she finally mastered it. I think it is in one of > the volumes of Mastering, that recipe. > > Essentially, this is a Beurre Rouge. I read up a bit on it, and the > cold butter is to keep the sauce from breaking. > > And you are right, it is very, very silky. A classic butter emulsion > sauce, this time made with red wine. > > I might try this myself sometime soon. I do have a tritip in the > freezer...maybe I will pull that out and make this sauce to go along > with it. Don't have a tenderloin right now, but it should still be > good with the tritip. > > Christine > -- > Your "I might try this myself" comment above suggests you haven't tried to make a beurre blanc sauce, or at least have limited experience with it. Look carefully at "Mastering the Art..Vol 1" If you can make it successfully it only lasts for that single dish. Any leftover falls apart and is a waste. If you do it with a sauteed tenderloin it's an absolute waste to not deglaze the pan with either white or red wine, separate it from its fat and proceed from there. To do so leaves the flavor behind. Tri-tip beef is too crude, and its "beefy" taste really doesn't fit with the delicacy of a beurre blanc sauce. Finally, as we're both in the pre-geezer phase of life neither of us need straight butter. It goes right to help the plaques developing on your coronary arteries Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message > ... >> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:57:35 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >> wrote: >> >>>The acid and the butter would make an emulsion that is very silky. Kent >>>is >>>thinking of an espagnole sauce which is one of the 5 mother sauces. When >>>I >>>was experimenting with French cooking I used that sauce as a base for >>>roast >>>beef dishes. It's what Julia did, too. >> >> Julia details in her book, My Life in France, how she discovered >> Beurre Blanc and how she finally mastered it. I think it is in one of >> the volumes of Mastering, that recipe. >> >> Essentially, this is a Beurre Rouge. I read up a bit on it, and the >> cold butter is to keep the sauce from breaking. >> >> And you are right, it is very, very silky. A classic butter emulsion >> sauce, this time made with red wine. >> >> I might try this myself sometime soon. I do have a tritip in the >> freezer...maybe I will pull that out and make this sauce to go along >> with it. Don't have a tenderloin right now, but it should still be >> good with the tritip. >> >> Christine >> -- >> > Your "I might try this myself" comment above suggests you haven't tried to > make a beurre blanc sauce, or at least have limited experience with it. > Look carefully at "Mastering the Art..Vol 1" If you can make it > successfully it only lasts for that single dish. Any leftover falls apart > and is a waste. > > If you do it with a sauteed tenderloin it's an absolute waste to not > deglaze the pan with either white or red wine, separate it from its fat > and proceed from there. To do so leaves the flavor behind. Tri-tip beef is > too crude, and its "beefy" taste really doesn't fit with the delicacy of a > beurre blanc sauce. > > Finally, as we're both in the pre-geezer phase of life neither of us need > straight butter. It goes right to help the plaques developing on your > coronary arteries Kent, I rarely take sides. However I am beginning to think you are kind of crazy and at very least you have extremely poor reading comprehension. She never advocated a beurre blanc for beef. You seem to have read it, somehow, though. How can anyone have a conversation with somebody who is incapable of even sticking to what the other side *writes* in their posts? Yes, lay of the butter. It is rotting your brain. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Kent" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 03:45:53 -0700, "Kent" > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Having said all of that, the Marchand de Vin sauce, which this is, is >>>>>just >>>>>too buttery. It overwhelms. It won't have enough beef flavor. >>>> >>>> No, this is not Marchand de Vins sauce. It is a mounted butter sauce, >>>> and butter is an important component. It is a Beurre Rouge, based on >>>> Beurre Blanc. >>>> >>>> It does have beef flavor. Did you read the instructions? It says to >>>> add the beef juice to it. And mounted butter sauces are NOT built on >>>> meat drippings...they are butter sauces. >>>> >>>> I suggest that you read more about sauces such as beurre blanc and >>>> Beurre rouge. It seems they are not within your knowledge that much, >>>> although they were within the knowledge of Julia Child and she adored >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Christine >>>> -- >>>> >>> Beurre rouge, in the 1961 edition of the Larousse Gastronomique is >>> "lobster butter and butter mixed with other shellfish". That's verbatim. >>> The definition of beurre rouge in my later edition is very similar, >>> referring to shellfish. >> >> A quick Google shows a buerre rouge to be a red wine butter sauce >> suitable for pretty much anything including seafood. By common >> definieiton it is the same as a buerre blanc made only made with red wine >> and red wine vinegar. Like this one from Epicurious: >> >> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Rouge-102839 >> >> Paul >> >> > Who wrote it? That means nothing. Butter-Red translates to French as > Beurre-Rouge. > > We're talking about Sauce Beurre Blanc, recipies which try to emulsify > butter with water. That "water" includes white wine, red wine, pan > deglazing, stock, and anything else aqueous. > Ya know Kent, after all this maybe I'll just grind the meat up and make hamburger. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
On Mar 22, 7:55*am, Christine Dabney > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:14:17 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > > wrote: > > >Ya know Kent, after all this maybe I'll just grind the meat up and make > >hamburger. > > >Paul > > No, try the sauce. I am anxious to hear how it turns out. * > > I am done arguing this, since we are going in an endless circle and > common sense isn't being used, among other things. * And among other > things, this sauce wasn't really in common knowledge til after > Escoffier, and even then it was a regional thing. * > > And none of us have any validity, since we aren't French..... Replying to my own post. One more article...about the sauce and variations... http://articles.latimes.com/2006/oct.../fo-sauciere11 Christine |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:57:35 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >>> wrote: >>> >>>>The acid and the butter would make an emulsion that is very silky. Kent >>>>is >>>>thinking of an espagnole sauce which is one of the 5 mother sauces. >>>>When I >>>>was experimenting with French cooking I used that sauce as a base for >>>>roast >>>>beef dishes. It's what Julia did, too. >>> >>> Julia details in her book, My Life in France, how she discovered >>> Beurre Blanc and how she finally mastered it. I think it is in one of >>> the volumes of Mastering, that recipe. >>> >>> Essentially, this is a Beurre Rouge. I read up a bit on it, and the >>> cold butter is to keep the sauce from breaking. >>> >>> And you are right, it is very, very silky. A classic butter emulsion >>> sauce, this time made with red wine. >>> >>> I might try this myself sometime soon. I do have a tritip in the >>> freezer...maybe I will pull that out and make this sauce to go along >>> with it. Don't have a tenderloin right now, but it should still be >>> good with the tritip. >>> >>> Christine >>> -- >>> >> Your "I might try this myself" comment above suggests you haven't tried >> to make a beurre blanc sauce, or at least have limited experience with >> it. Look carefully at "Mastering the Art..Vol 1" If you can make it >> successfully it only lasts for that single dish. Any leftover falls apart >> and is a waste. >> >> If you do it with a sauteed tenderloin it's an absolute waste to not >> deglaze the pan with either white or red wine, separate it from its fat >> and proceed from there. To do so leaves the flavor behind. Tri-tip beef >> is too crude, and its "beefy" taste really doesn't fit with the delicacy >> of a beurre blanc sauce. >> >> Finally, as we're both in the pre-geezer phase of life neither of us need >> straight butter. It goes right to help the plaques developing on your >> coronary arteries > > Kent, I rarely take sides. However I am beginning to think you are kind > of crazy and at very least you have extremely poor reading comprehension. > She never advocated a beurre blanc for beef. You seem to have read it, > somehow, though. How can anyone have a conversation with somebody who is > incapable of even sticking to what the other side *writes* in their posts? > > Yes, lay of the butter. It is rotting your brain. > > Paul > All of this is about definitions. For most, I think, beurre blanc is an emulsion . That's a small amount of reduced liquid combined with cold bits of butter to form a sauce.. That bit of liquid can be anything you want on top of the meat made into a butter sauce, including white wine, red wine, stock, and whatever. There is no widely accepted specific name for the beurre blanc when the liquid happens to be red wine. When the emulsion is created from steak pan drippings and white wine, it's called Steak Bercy. When red wine is used to reduce it's called Marchand de Vins. These are subcategories of beurre blanc, or white butter sauce. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
On Mar 22, 9:46*am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in ... > > > > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... > > >> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message > . .. > >>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:57:35 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>The acid and the butter would make an emulsion that is very silky. *Kent > >>>>is > >>>>thinking of an espagnole sauce which is one of the 5 mother sauces. > >>>>When I > >>>>was experimenting with French cooking I used that sauce as a base for > >>>>roast > >>>>beef dishes. *It's what Julia did, too. > > >>> Julia details in her book, My Life in France, how she discovered > >>> Beurre Blanc and how she finally mastered it. *I think it is in one of > >>> the volumes of Mastering, that recipe. > > >>> Essentially, this is a Beurre Rouge. * I read up a bit on it, and the > >>> cold butter is to keep the sauce from breaking. > > >>> And you are right, it is very, very silky. *A classic butter emulsion > >>> sauce, this time made with red wine. > > >>> I might try this myself sometime soon. *I do have a tritip in the > >>> freezer...maybe I will pull that out and make this sauce to go along > >>> with it. * Don't have a tenderloin right now, but it should still be > >>> good with the tritip. > > >>> Christine > >>> -- > > >> Your "I might try this myself" comment above suggests you haven't tried > >> to make a beurre blanc sauce, or at least have limited experience with > >> it. Look carefully at "Mastering the Art..Vol 1" If you can make it > >> successfully it only lasts for that single dish. Any leftover falls apart > >> and is a waste. > > >> If you do it with a sauteed tenderloin it's an absolute waste to not > >> deglaze the pan with either white or red wine, separate it from its fat > >> and proceed from there. To do so leaves the flavor behind. Tri-tip beef > >> is too crude, and its "beefy" taste really doesn't fit with the delicacy > >> of a beurre blanc sauce. > > >> Finally, as we're both in the pre-geezer phase of life neither of us need > >> straight butter. It goes right to help the plaques developing on your > >> coronary arteries > > > Kent, I rarely take sides. *However I am beginning to think you are kind > > of crazy and at very least you have extremely poor reading comprehension. |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message > ... >> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:26:54 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message >>>> ... >>>>>I have 2, 2 pound Kansas City Steakhouse Chateuabriand cuts from >>>>>Costco. >>>>>Really fine looking cuts of meat I must admit. How would you cook >>>>>them? >>>>>I am thinking a nice sauce of some kind, perhaps brandy, cream and >>>>>peppercorn. Not quite sure. Do I cut these into medallions or do I >>>>>cook >>>>>them whole? How would hey work as the base for steak au poivre? >>>>> >>>>> Paul >> >>>My mother sent it to me for my b-day. It was ordered online. Kansas >>>City >>>Steakhouse is the brand. >>> >>>http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...rodid=11327407 >>> >>>Paul >>> >> >> I don't know if you can adapt this to your needs, but this looks >> really good to me. I have had this on my list to make someday.. >> This is from Eric Ripert, from his book Avec Eric. >> >> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >> > > Looks fabbo. I'll definetly make one of the roasts using this recipe. > Looks pretty easy. I'm going to do Alton Brown's steak au poivre with the > other one. Asparagus and creamed garlic cauliflower for the vegies. > > Paul > > Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven at a lower temp, possibly 300F. This will promore slow even cooking from edge to edge with less brown ring near the surface. Then rather than just pouring pan drippings into the already created sauce I'd deglaze the pan with some red wine and strain off the fat, to capture as much beef flavor as possible and add that to the wine you've boiled down. Everything should be boiled down to 1/2 cup, as the recipe says. Strain that to get rid of the shallots before you add any cold lumps of butter. I think everything will work better if you add the strained pan drippings to your sauce solution before whisking in the butter. I can't imaging trying to strain shallot slices from the emulsified sauce without a mess, and losing a fair amount of your sauce. I know you probably won't do the above. This is just my 2 cents. That's what this news group is all about. We're all doing what we think works best. That is what is exciting about cooking. Let us know how it turns out. Best of Luck, Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Kent" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:26:54 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message >>>>>> ... >>>>>>>I have 2, 2 pound Kansas City Steakhouse Chateuabriand cuts from >>>>>>>Costco. >>>>>>>Really fine looking cuts of meat I must admit. How would you cook >>>>>>>them? >>>>>>>I am thinking a nice sauce of some kind, perhaps brandy, cream and >>>>>>>peppercorn. Not quite sure. Do I cut these into medallions or do I >>>>>>>cook >>>>>>>them whole? How would hey work as the base for steak au poivre? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul >>>> >>>>>My mother sent it to me for my b-day. It was ordered online. Kansas >>>>>City >>>>>Steakhouse is the brand. >>>>> >>>>>http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...rodid=11327407 >>>>> >>>>>Paul >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if you can adapt this to your needs, but this looks >>>> really good to me. I have had this on my list to make someday.. >>>> This is from Eric Ripert, from his book Avec Eric. >>>> >>>> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >>>> >>>> Christine >>>> -- >>>> >>> Christine, the recipe above for the sauce is a horrible recipe. Horrible >>> is an understatement. >>> . 1 cup dry red wine >>> . 1 cup red wine vinegar >>> . 1 shallot, thinly sliced >>> . 2 tablespoons whole black peppercorns >>> . 12 ounces cold unsalted butter, cut into pieces >>> One cup of red wine vinegar for two cups of sauce?? The only other >>> liquid ingredient is a cup of red wine? Sliced shallots???? 2 >>> tablespoons of peppercorns?? 12oz of butter??? Cold Butter?? Horrible is >>> an understatement. >>> >> >> I disagree. It looks just fine to me. It reminds me of sauces I've had >> in restaurants. You cook the sauce down and then strain it and begin >> mounting the butter. It's a classic sauce style. The vinegar "bite" >> would be greatly subdued after being cooked. And it is not like you >> smother the steak with the sauce. A little goes a long way. I'd >> probably make it in a half-batch. >> >>> For filet mignon you need to have a nice brown sauce. First you make the >>> liquid portion with beef stock some wine like madeira , and seasonings. >>> To that you can add finely minced sauteed shallots. Then you make and >>> thicken it with brown roux. >>> http://allrecipes.com//HowTo/making-roux/Detail.aspx . I wouldn't use >>> cornstarch, or a beurre manie >>> http://www.food.com/recipe/beurre-ma...ickener-117333 for >>> a dish this fancy. A strong no on plain butter as a thickener, even in >>> small amounts. >> >> I don't like roux based sauces. I much prefer pan style sauces that are >> thickened by coking down and butter and/or demi glace. >> >> Paul >> >> > If you've never had a roux based sauce you liked you've never had anything > prepared by someone who understands stocks and roux, and ingredients. Roux > based sauces are the foundation of French cooking, and for all good > cooking. > > Kent See, there you go again with the reading comprehension/craziness. When did I say I never had a roux based sauce? In fact I even wrote I used to cook espagnole when I was experimenting with French cooking. I'm leaning more toweards the latter on the diagnosis. I believe the medical term is neural frontal calcification. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:29:23 -0700, > > wrote: > >> Beurre blanc means taking a concentrated small volume >> of liquid and beating small cubes of cold butter into it at a temp. of >> 110-120F. The blanc means white butter. > > The blanc means white butter, but made with WHITE wine. Not made > with white butter. Rouge refers to the red wine, it is made with red > wine. How can it be beurre blanc (WHITE ) if it is made with red > wine? The answer is rather obvious..it isn't pale like beurre blance. > Use some common sense here....Red means rouge...and if you use red > wine, it is not gonna be pale/white. Forget it Christine. Lost cause. What's amusing is the people who see themselves as so well informed and consult Larousse and Escoffier at every turn would not know such basic stuff. This is cooking 101 material. Ah, the irony. -- Mort |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:14:17 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > > wrote: > > >>Ya know Kent, after all this maybe I'll just grind the meat up and make >>hamburger. >> >>Paul >> > > No, try the sauce. I am anxious to hear how it turns out. I'll be making it this weekend. I may offend the ghost of Escoffier but screw him. Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that symbolized a lot of the old French style. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Paul M. Cook > wrote:
>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >symbolized a lot of the old French style. Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like sauce that involved the shells. Steve |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message > ... >> Kent wrote: >> >>>> >>> >>> Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the >>> stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven at >>> a lower >> >> One could also marinate the meat for 24 - 48 hours in either Madeira, >> marsalla, port or even a good red burgundy, then, after browning on top >> of the stove place in a pot just big enough to hold it and just cover >> with the marinating wine and any extra stock or water necessary to just >> cover the meat and braise it till done, replenishing liquid as necessary. >> Braising on a bed of veggies (carrots, onions, celery etc.) is a good >> addition and then filter the braising liquid, defat and serve au jus or >> add a thickening agent such as a burrre manie >> -- >> JL >> >> > With filet mignon? You're obviously kidding. My suggestion was a change to > the original recipe suggested by Christine. > http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 No he is not kidding. Wine marinated prime rib roast is a pretty damn good dish. Just because Escoffier didn't come up with the idea does not make it bad. Kent, you seem like quite a dilettante to me. You have committed a couple of French cookbooks from 1900 to memory and now you profess to know all. And you scoff at anything not on those blessed pages. Do you actually cook? I suspect not. Dilettante. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Steve Pope" > wrote in message ... > Paul M. Cook > wrote: > >>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>symbolized a lot of the old French style. > > Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like > sauce that involved the shells. Entire lobsters pulverized and pressed through a chinoise. They were just after the essence of the lobster, not the meat. Back then lobsters were just emerging from their previous stint as slave food in the South so nobody cared much. A lot of French cuisine of old was often very wasteful and extravagant, especially sauces. The peasants never cooked like that. Just the gentry. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message ... > Steve Pope wrote: >> Paul M. Cook > wrote: >> >> >>>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>>symbolized a lot of the old French style. >> >> >> Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >> sauce that involved the shells. >> >> Steve > > There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the > amounts are modified for the home cook. > > The market for cook books was different when it was first published than > it is now. But it is still in print. > > The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to > commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The man > was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his > professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and > iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf > Astoria in NYC. > > Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and > excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. His definition of waste would not be the one we recognize today. > His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the > recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced today > although it was quite common in days gone by" > > And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much > regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more > (circa 1921 c.e.) By waste he meant food that was left to spoil. He did not consider a sumptuous feast of ingredients that could feed an entire family of 12 just to make a sauce for 2 to be a waste. Now it those ingredients spoiled, that was a waste. He cooked for the wealthy who demanded sumptuous and extravagant dishes. No expense was spared to that end. Waste as in 20 pounds of seafood to make a soup for a table of 4 or a whole 100 pound sea turtle for soup for the same table was not an offense to their standards. Back then there was ample supply and ample money. Waste had a whole different definition. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Paul M. Cook > wrote:
>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message >> Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >> sauce that involved the shells. >Entire lobsters pulverized and pressed through a chinoise. They were just >after the essence of the lobster, not the meat. Back then lobsters were >just emerging from their previous stint as slave food in the South so nobody >cared much. A lot of French cuisine of old was often very wasteful and >extravagant, especially sauces. The peasants never cooked like that. Just >the gentry. Thanks. I'm not sure I'll ever investigate such a sauce. ;-) Steve |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Steve Pope" > wrote in message ... > Paul M. Cook > wrote: > >>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message > >>> Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>> sauce that involved the shells. > >>Entire lobsters pulverized and pressed through a chinoise. They were just >>after the essence of the lobster, not the meat. Back then lobsters were >>just emerging from their previous stint as slave food in the South so >>nobody >>cared much. A lot of French cuisine of old was often very wasteful and >>extravagant, especially sauces. The peasants never cooked like that. >>Just >>the gentry. > > Thanks. I'm not sure I'll ever investigate such a sauce. ;-) Me either but you can bet your boots it was probably the most incredible culinary experience. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Kent" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:57:35 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>The acid and the butter would make an emulsion that is very silky. >>>>>Kent is >>>>>thinking of an espagnole sauce which is one of the 5 mother sauces. >>>>>When I >>>>>was experimenting with French cooking I used that sauce as a base for >>>>>roast >>>>>beef dishes. It's what Julia did, too. >>>> >>>> Julia details in her book, My Life in France, how she discovered >>>> Beurre Blanc and how she finally mastered it. I think it is in one of >>>> the volumes of Mastering, that recipe. >>>> >>>> Essentially, this is a Beurre Rouge. I read up a bit on it, and the >>>> cold butter is to keep the sauce from breaking. >>>> >>>> And you are right, it is very, very silky. A classic butter emulsion >>>> sauce, this time made with red wine. >>>> >>>> I might try this myself sometime soon. I do have a tritip in the >>>> freezer...maybe I will pull that out and make this sauce to go along >>>> with it. Don't have a tenderloin right now, but it should still be >>>> good with the tritip. >>>> >>>> Christine >>>> -- >>>> >>> Your "I might try this myself" comment above suggests you haven't tried >>> to make a beurre blanc sauce, or at least have limited experience with >>> it. Look carefully at "Mastering the Art..Vol 1" If you can make it >>> successfully it only lasts for that single dish. Any leftover falls >>> apart and is a waste. >>> >>> If you do it with a sauteed tenderloin it's an absolute waste to not >>> deglaze the pan with either white or red wine, separate it from its fat >>> and proceed from there. To do so leaves the flavor behind. Tri-tip beef >>> is too crude, and its "beefy" taste really doesn't fit with the delicacy >>> of a beurre blanc sauce. >>> >>> Finally, as we're both in the pre-geezer phase of life neither of us >>> need straight butter. It goes right to help the plaques developing on >>> your coronary arteries >> >> Kent, I rarely take sides. However I am beginning to think you are kind >> of crazy and at very least you have extremely poor reading comprehension. >> She never advocated a beurre blanc for beef. You seem to have read it, >> somehow, though. How can anyone have a conversation with somebody who is >> incapable of even sticking to what the other side *writes* in their >> posts? >> >> Yes, lay of the butter. It is rotting your brain. >> >> Paul >> > All of this is about definitions. For most, I think, beurre blanc is an > emulsion . That's a small amount of reduced liquid combined with cold bits > of butter to form a sauce.. That bit of liquid can be anything you want on > top of the meat made into a butter sauce, including white wine, red wine, > stock, and whatever. No. You don't understand the roll that acid plays in changing the proteins in the butter. Alton Brown showed how acid allows the emulsifying agents to become more incorporated with fat yeilding a more silky texture. Without the acid you'd never have the texture you desire. It would be more grainy and unincorporated. And you proved you don't know this because you completely rejected the entire sauce recipe Christine posted simply because it had vinegar in it. You seemed to think it would taste like a vinaigrette. That recipe was a pretty classic beurre blanc sauce made with red wine and red wine vinegar. > > There is no widely accepted specific name for the beurre blanc when the > liquid happens to be red wine. When the emulsion is created from steak pan > drippings and white wine, it's called Steak Bercy. When red wine is used > to reduce it's called Marchand de Vins. These are subcategories of beurre > blanc, or white butter sauce. There really is. Maybe it is more modern than 1920 but there is a definition. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Steve Pope wrote:
> Paul M. Cook > wrote: > > >>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>symbolized a lot of the old French style. > > > Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like > sauce that involved the shells. > > Steve There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the amounts are modified for the home cook. The market for cook books was different when it was first published than it is now. But it is still in print. The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The man was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC. Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced today although it was quite common in days gone by" And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more (circa 1921 c.e.) -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message ... > Paul M. Cook wrote: > >> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>Steve Pope wrote: >>> >>>>Paul M. Cook > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>>>>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>>>>symbolized a lot of the old French style. >>>> >>>> >>>>Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>>>sauce that involved the shells. >>>> >>>>Steve >>> >>>There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the >>>amounts are modified for the home cook. >>> >>>The market for cook books was different when it was first published than >>>it is now. But it is still in print. >>> >>>The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to >>>commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The >>>man was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his >>>professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and >>>iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf >>>Astoria in NYC. >>> >>>Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and >>>excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. >> >> >> His definition of waste would not be the one we recognize today. >> >> >>>His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the >>>recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced >>>today although it was quite common in days gone by" >>> >>>And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much >>>regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more >>>(circa 1921 c.e.) >> >> >> By waste he meant food that was left to spoil. He did not consider a >> sumptuous feast of ingredients that could feed an entire family of 12 >> just to make a sauce for 2 to be a waste. Now it those ingredients >> spoiled, that was a waste. He cooked for the wealthy who demanded >> sumptuous and extravagant dishes. No expense was spared to that end. >> Waste as in 20 pounds of seafood to make a soup for a table of 4 or a >> whole 100 pound sea turtle for soup for the same table was not an offense >> to their standards. Back then there was ample supply and ample money. >> Waste had a whole different definition. >> >> Paul >> >> > > But i defy you to find a recipe calling for such things in his works. > > In his auto biography he repeats an Careme anecdote about reducing several > oxen, turkey and hams to a thimble full of essence but in his published > Guide Culinaire remarks about essences: it is far better to add the > product itself to the stock during its preparation rather than to prepare > a special essences. > > He decries making a special good/strong essence to improve poor quality > food, as was commonly done by chefs of his day. "therefore it is judged > unnecessary to give more than one example of a recipe." > > he does give recipes for espangnole and various stocks that can use > upwards of 10 pounds of meats and bones but those can easily be halved as > he knew or at least hoped, many small resturanterurs if not aspiring chefs > would be purchasing his book. He gives recipes using 6 - 7 pounds of beef > in a particular stew, some recipes for some large fish, turkey and capons, > as well as mutton and whole pigs, venison & etc. but even more do he give > recipes for individual servings of meats, and his portions for soups vary > from 5 - 10 cups. His salads don't give much advice on amounts except for > "take equal quantities of" in the rest its use as much as you need with > some slight variations according to type of vegetable. > -- As I recall 5-10 cups was about the yield for his turtle soup which required an entire live sea turtle. I sure don't have the recipe handy, no. Is it wasteful to kill a sea turtle for a few bowls of soup? In my view it is an obscenity. I also seem to remember his recipe for chicken soup which was essentially 20 chickens cooked down to 1 quart of base which made about a gallon of soup. People were starving to death back then. Was the soup(s) good? They were probably to die for. I am sure of that. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:48:45 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote: > Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like > sauce that involved the shells. Lobster sauce used to mean only the shells were used. Maybe the modern version requires and entire lobster. I dunno and I won't be making it so I don't care. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message > ... > >>Steve Pope wrote: >> >>>Paul M. Cook > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>>>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>>>symbolized a lot of the old French style. >>> >>> >>>Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>>sauce that involved the shells. >>> >>>Steve >> >>There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the >>amounts are modified for the home cook. >> >>The market for cook books was different when it was first published than >>it is now. But it is still in print. >> >>The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to >>commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The man >>was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his >>professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and >>iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf >>Astoria in NYC. >> >>Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and >>excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. > > > His definition of waste would not be the one we recognize today. > > >>His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the >>recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced today >>although it was quite common in days gone by" >> >>And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much >>regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more >>(circa 1921 c.e.) > > > By waste he meant food that was left to spoil. He did not consider a > sumptuous feast of ingredients that could feed an entire family of 12 just > to make a sauce for 2 to be a waste. Now it those ingredients spoiled, that > was a waste. He cooked for the wealthy who demanded sumptuous and > extravagant dishes. No expense was spared to that end. Waste as in 20 > pounds of seafood to make a soup for a table of 4 or a whole 100 pound sea > turtle for soup for the same table was not an offense to their standards. > Back then there was ample supply and ample money. Waste had a whole > different definition. > > Paul > > But i defy you to find a recipe calling for such things in his works. In his auto biography he repeats an Careme anecdote about reducing several oxen, turkey and hams to a thimble full of essence but in his published Guide Culinaire remarks about essences: it is far better to add the product itself to the stock during its preparation rather than to prepare a special essences. He decries making a special good/strong essence to improve poor quality food, as was commonly done by chefs of his day. "therefore it is judged unnecessary to give more than one example of a recipe." he does give recipes for espangnole and various stocks that can use upwards of 10 pounds of meats and bones but those can easily be halved as he knew or at least hoped, many small resturanterurs if not aspiring chefs would be purchasing his book. He gives recipes using 6 - 7 pounds of beef in a particular stew, some recipes for some large fish, turkey and capons, as well as mutton and whole pigs, venison & etc. but even more do he give recipes for individual servings of meats, and his portions for soups vary from 5 - 10 cups. His salads don't give much advice on amounts except for "take equal quantities of" in the rest its use as much as you need with some slight variations according to type of vegetable. -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message > ... > >>Paul M. Cook wrote: >> >> >>>"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message ... >>> >>> >>>>Steve Pope wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Paul M. Cook > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>>>>>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>>>>>symbolized a lot of the old French style. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>>>>sauce that involved the shells. >>>>> >>>>>Steve >>>> >>>>There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the >>>>amounts are modified for the home cook. >>>> >>>>The market for cook books was different when it was first published than >>>>it is now. But it is still in print. >>>> >>>>The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to >>>>commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The >>>>man was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his >>>>professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and >>>>iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf >>>>Astoria in NYC. >>>> >>>>Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and >>>>excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. >>> >>> >>>His definition of waste would not be the one we recognize today. >>> >>> >>> >>>>His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the >>>>recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced >>>>today although it was quite common in days gone by" >>>> >>>>And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much >>>>regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more >>>>(circa 1921 c.e.) >>> >>> >>>By waste he meant food that was left to spoil. He did not consider a >>>sumptuous feast of ingredients that could feed an entire family of 12 >>>just to make a sauce for 2 to be a waste. Now it those ingredients >>>spoiled, that was a waste. He cooked for the wealthy who demanded >>>sumptuous and extravagant dishes. No expense was spared to that end. >>>Waste as in 20 pounds of seafood to make a soup for a table of 4 or a >>>whole 100 pound sea turtle for soup for the same table was not an offense >>>to their standards. Back then there was ample supply and ample money. >>>Waste had a whole different definition. >>> >>>Paul >>> >>> >> >>But i defy you to find a recipe calling for such things in his works. >> >>In his auto biography he repeats an Careme anecdote about reducing several >>oxen, turkey and hams to a thimble full of essence but in his published >>Guide Culinaire remarks about essences: it is far better to add the >>product itself to the stock during its preparation rather than to prepare >>a special essences. >> >>He decries making a special good/strong essence to improve poor quality >>food, as was commonly done by chefs of his day. "therefore it is judged >>unnecessary to give more than one example of a recipe." >> >>he does give recipes for espangnole and various stocks that can use >>upwards of 10 pounds of meats and bones but those can easily be halved as >>he knew or at least hoped, many small resturanterurs if not aspiring chefs >>would be purchasing his book. He gives recipes using 6 - 7 pounds of beef >>in a particular stew, some recipes for some large fish, turkey and capons, >>as well as mutton and whole pigs, venison & etc. but even more do he give >>recipes for individual servings of meats, and his portions for soups vary >>from 5 - 10 cups. His salads don't give much advice on amounts except for >>"take equal quantities of" in the rest its use as much as you need with >>some slight variations according to type of vegetable. >>-- > > > > As I recall 5-10 cups was about the yield for his turtle soup which required > an entire live sea turtle. I sure don't have the recipe handy, no. Is it > wasteful to kill a sea turtle for a few bowls of soup? In my view it is an > obscenity. I also seem to remember his recipe for chicken soup which was > essentially 20 chickens cooked down to 1 quart of base which made about a > gallon of soup. People were starving to death back then. > > Was the soup(s) good? They were probably to die for. I am sure of that. > > Paul > > People are starving to death to day. I saw a comedienne on t.v. last nigh, she had been entertaining the troops in Afghanistan and one of the military officers there was telling her how they had built thousands of miles of roads, 20 schools, a dozen hospitals & such and she replied, "great, when your finished here how about we go to Detroit?" or one might say east L.A. or various other parts of Americas great inner city slums. Plus there here have been a number of translations, some better than others. I don't recall ever seeing a recipe of his calling for 20 chickens, several pounds of larks tongue for aspic and several pounds of rose petals to make ice cream with but other than that, he wrote the Guide to be used by middle class establishments and cooks. He was less of an elitist than he has a reputation for, at the worst he was very good and successful at what he did. And the idea that an admiration of his life's work is anything other than just that is just looking for an excuse to argue argue about it. One of my favourite American cook books is by a student of Escoffier, Louis de Gouy, who wrote "The Gold Cook Book" (1947) and was head chef of the Waldor Astoria for many years. He made a special study of traditional american foods, went to great lengths to track down authentic regionalisms. -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
sf wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:48:45 +0000 (UTC), > (Steve Pope) wrote: > > >>Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>sauce that involved the shells. > > > Lobster sauce used to mean only the shells were used. Maybe the > modern version requires and entire lobster. I dunno and I won't be > making it so I don't care. > Lobster soup is one thing, lobster sauce i can only find as "Sauce Newburg" in the Guide Culinaire, made with raw or cooked lobster, which he states are made & served in the same way as sauce American as in Homard a l' Americaine Various internal roe, coral & etc. are mixed with butter to be used to finish the sauce. The primary distinction being whether the lobster meat is served in the sauce or the sauted lobster meat used as a garnish with other fish or food and then sauced. A favourite Escoffier is #2111 Homard a la Brouche but i have never been able to absolutely pin down what "Derby Sauce" is. And i have googled it So i know about the commercial (bottled) sauce routinely compared to Worcestershire sauce. Once source suggesting "Derby Sauce: A cream, horseradish, mustard, vinegar & seasoned sauce iirc. Though i think there might be a commercially available product, ..." I cant find it for sale with google, but that might only mean i don't know how to shop on the internet I tried googling Harrods and all i got was bags & shoes and a more dedicated search of british food sites didn't turn up anything either. I have seen other cook books where the author had a proprietary ingredient available commercially that was included in the recipes. But as far as i can recall, this homard a la brouche is the only instance of it being called for in Escoffiers guide culinaire. Plenty of other exotic ingredients in so far as im not sending of to Rouen for a duckling Or Strasbourg for pate & etc. Although i did run across some chocolate eggs at Harrod's and a tartar sauce that looked interesting -- JL |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message >> ... >>> Kent wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the >>>> stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven >>>> at a lower >>> >>> One could also marinate the meat for 24 - 48 hours in either Madeira, >>> marsalla, port or even a good red burgundy, then, after browning on top >>> of the stove place in a pot just big enough to hold it and just cover >>> with the marinating wine and any extra stock or water necessary to just >>> cover the meat and braise it till done, replenishing liquid as >>> necessary. Braising on a bed of veggies (carrots, onions, celery etc.) >>> is a good addition and then filter the braising liquid, defat and serve >>> au jus or add a thickening agent such as a burrre manie >>> -- >>> JL >>> >>> >> With filet mignon? You're obviously kidding. My suggestion was a change >> to the original recipe suggested by Christine. >> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 > > No he is not kidding. Wine marinated prime rib roast is a pretty damn > good dish. Just because Escoffier didn't come up with the idea does not > make it bad. > > Kent, you seem like quite a dilettante to me. You have committed a couple > of French cookbooks from 1900 to memory and now you profess to know all. > And you scoff at anything not on those blessed pages. Do you actually > cook? I suspect not. > > Dilettante. > > Paul > Paul, I, and my wife, have cooked a lot, for many years. Now that I'm retired that occupies most of the day for both of us. I have an idea for a Chateaubriand like yours that I'm going to try. Brown it in a roasting pan over high heat. Remove from heat and rest it. Thoroughly deglaze the pan with wine. Pour that off and save for sauce as has been discussed in chef Eric Ripert's recipe. Then put browned meat into a one gallon double ziploc bag with very small amount of the deglazing liquid. Suck all the air out of the ziploc bag and seal. The polyethylene should firmly cover the meat and liquid. There should be no air. Then the bagged meat goes into a water bath at about 150F, and sits there until the meat temp is about 130F. I'm going to use a ceramic crockpot on warm, which hits about 150F. This all should give you a good char, with edge to edge rare meat, with muscle breakdown because of the slow cooking. As you probably well know this is the rage in restaurants these days, and is called sous vide, or "under vacuum". By doing the above, a lot of money is saved on equipment you're only going to periodically use. I had a good talk today with an engineering person at the Johnson Co., makers of Ziploc. They say ziploc will tolerate safely this type of cooking without breakdown of the polyethylene, as long as you don't cook above 235F, where it breaks down. Even when and if it breaks down, it doesn't create a health hazard, only overcooked dry meat. To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in food and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times bought 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced it to espagnole, and to demiglace. That alone, obviously, doesn't make you a "chef". However we've traveled and dined throughout France, the rest of Europe. and Asia. We've managed to dine in about 15 Michelin 3 star restaurants. At that time all Michelin Restaurants were in France, save for one in Belgium. When you get home, we have somewhat naively tried to duplicate what we ate overseas. We have about 300 cookbooks to read while trying to get to sleep and in the kitchen while hovering over the stove. We both love to cook. Obviously you do too. Regardless of what you read into my rhetoric, I greatly enjoy this NG and learn from it. Cooking is all about common sense and trying to do something better that what's on paper. Cheers, Kent |
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Beurre au Monte Rouges
"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 03:45:53 -0700, "Kent" > > wrote: > >>Straining a butter emulsified sauce, as in his recipe, is no bargain and >>quite wasteful . You lose a lot. One might say straining the sauce with >>the >>butter added removes its water, or aqueous component, which clouds >>everything up a bit. I've tried making the recipe with clarified butter >>for >>that reason. > > > You have got this all backwards. This is NOT a Marchand de Vins > sauce. You don't strain it after the butter is added. I am getting > the impression very strongly that you have no knowledge of mounted > butter sauces, such as beurre blanc. They are totally different than > what you are talking about. Stop relating it to the sauces you know > already, this is obviously one you have little familiarity with. > > You strain it once the wine and vinegar are reduced. THEN, and only > then do you started emulisifying the butter into the sauce. The > butter has to be cold, cause the sauce will break if it isn't. > > And butter sauces such as this are not built on the roasting juices. > They are built on a reduction of wine and vinegar, and then emulsified > with butter. > > These are mainstay sauces in cuisine now. Yes, this started in > France, before Julia Child came along. Look in one of her volumes of > Mastering: beurre blanc should be in there. The difference between > this sauce and beurre blanc is that red wine and vinegar are used > instead of white wine and vinegar. > > Christine > -- > Christine, look at #4 in Ripert's recipe: "4. While the tenderloin is roasting, finish the sauce by gradually whisking the cold butter into the warm sauce until it is fully emulsified. Strain the sauce through a fine-mesh sieve into a small saucepan. Season the sauce to taste with salt and pepper; keep warm." He whisks cold lumps of butter into his reduced wine/shallot stock, and then strains. He can't be whisking more butter into a sauce he's already created. He has to be whisking into his wine reduction and then straining. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Kent" > wrote in message ... > > "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Kent" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> Kent wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the >>>>> stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven >>>>> at a lower >>>> >>>> One could also marinate the meat for 24 - 48 hours in either Madeira, >>>> marsalla, port or even a good red burgundy, then, after browning on >>>> top of the stove place in a pot just big enough to hold it and just >>>> cover with the marinating wine and any extra stock or water necessary >>>> to just cover the meat and braise it till done, replenishing liquid as >>>> necessary. Braising on a bed of veggies (carrots, onions, celery etc.) >>>> is a good addition and then filter the braising liquid, defat and serve >>>> au jus or add a thickening agent such as a burrre manie >>>> -- >>>> JL >>>> >>>> >>> With filet mignon? You're obviously kidding. My suggestion was a change >>> to the original recipe suggested by Christine. >>> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >> >> No he is not kidding. Wine marinated prime rib roast is a pretty damn >> good dish. Just because Escoffier didn't come up with the idea does not >> make it bad. >> >> Kent, you seem like quite a dilettante to me. You have committed a >> couple of French cookbooks from 1900 to memory and now you profess to >> know all. And you scoff at anything not on those blessed pages. Do you >> actually cook? I suspect not. >> >> Dilettante. >> >> Paul >> > Paul, I, and my wife, have cooked a lot, for many years. Now that I'm > retired that occupies most of the day for both of us. > I have an idea for a Chateaubriand like yours that I'm going to try. > > Brown it in a roasting pan over high heat. Remove from heat and rest it. > Thoroughly deglaze the pan with wine. Pour that off and save for sauce as > has been discussed in chef Eric Ripert's recipe. Then put browned meat > into a one gallon double ziploc bag with very small amount of the > deglazing liquid. Suck all the air out of the ziploc bag and seal. The > polyethylene should firmly cover the meat and liquid. There should be no > air. Then the bagged meat goes into a water bath at about 150F, and sits > there until the meat temp is about 130F. I'm going to use a ceramic > crockpot on warm, which hits about 150F. This all should give you a good > char, with edge to edge rare meat, with muscle breakdown because of the > slow cooking. > > As you probably well know this is the rage in restaurants these days, and > is called sous vide, or "under vacuum". By doing the above, a lot of money > is saved on equipment you're only going to periodically use. I had a good > talk today with an engineering person at the Johnson Co., makers of > Ziploc. They say ziploc will tolerate safely this type of cooking without > breakdown of the polyethylene, as long as you don't cook above 235F, where > it breaks down. Even when and if it breaks down, it doesn't create a > health hazard, only overcooked dry meat. > > To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in food > and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times bought > 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced it to > espagnole, and to demiglace. > > That alone, obviously, doesn't make you a "chef". However we've traveled > and dined throughout France, the rest of Europe. and Asia. We've managed > to dine in about 15 Michelin 3 star restaurants. At that time all Michelin > Restaurants were in France, save for one in Belgium. When you get home, we > have somewhat naively tried to duplicate what we ate overseas. We have > about 300 cookbooks to read while trying to get to sleep and in the > kitchen while hovering over the stove. > > We both love to cook. Obviously you do too. Regardless of what you read > into my rhetoric, I greatly enjoy this NG and learn from it. Cooking is > all about common sense and trying to do something better that what's on > paper. That's all good. But Escoffier et al were not the *last* word on French cooking, just one of the originals. Just because a recipe or a procedure is not enshrined in one of their tomes does not mean it is not "French." And things do change over the centuries, like techniques for sauces. It's all good. Paul |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Steve Pope" > wrote in message > ... >> Paul M. Cook > wrote: >> >>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message >> >>>> Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>>> sauce that involved the shells. >> >>>Entire lobsters pulverized and pressed through a chinoise. They were >>>just >>>after the essence of the lobster, not the meat. Back then lobsters were >>>just emerging from their previous stint as slave food in the South so >>>nobody >>>cared much. A lot of French cuisine of old was often very wasteful and >>>extravagant, especially sauces. The peasants never cooked like that. >>>Just >>>the gentry. >> >> Thanks. I'm not sure I'll ever investigate such a sauce. ;-) > > Me either but you can bet your boots it was probably the most incredible > culinary experience. > > Paul > > In the 1988 edition of the Larousse, edited by Jenifer Lang the red sauce consisted only of ground shellfish shells, which sounds a bit strange. I steam Dungeness crab when it's in season. Maybe I'll try that, although I wonder. The English translation in the 1988 edition of the Larousse is much clearer. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Kent" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> >>>> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message >>>> ... >>>>> Kent wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the >>>>>> stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven >>>>>> at a lower >>>>> >>>>> One could also marinate the meat for 24 - 48 hours in either Madeira, >>>>> marsalla, port or even a good red burgundy, then, after browning on >>>>> top of the stove place in a pot just big enough to hold it and just >>>>> cover with the marinating wine and any extra stock or water necessary >>>>> to just cover the meat and braise it till done, replenishing liquid as >>>>> necessary. Braising on a bed of veggies (carrots, onions, celery etc.) >>>>> is a good addition and then filter the braising liquid, defat and >>>>> serve au jus or add a thickening agent such as a burrre manie >>>>> -- >>>>> JL >>>>> >>>>> >>>> With filet mignon? You're obviously kidding. My suggestion was a change >>>> to the original recipe suggested by Christine. >>>> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >>> >>> No he is not kidding. Wine marinated prime rib roast is a pretty damn >>> good dish. Just because Escoffier didn't come up with the idea does not >>> make it bad. >>> >>> Kent, you seem like quite a dilettante to me. You have committed a >>> couple of French cookbooks from 1900 to memory and now you profess to >>> know all. And you scoff at anything not on those blessed pages. Do you >>> actually cook? I suspect not. >>> >>> Dilettante. >>> >>> Paul >>> >> Paul, I, and my wife, have cooked a lot, for many years. Now that I'm >> retired that occupies most of the day for both of us. >> I have an idea for a Chateaubriand like yours that I'm going to try. >> >> Brown it in a roasting pan over high heat. Remove from heat and rest it. >> Thoroughly deglaze the pan with wine. Pour that off and save for sauce as >> has been discussed in chef Eric Ripert's recipe. Then put browned meat >> into a one gallon double ziploc bag with very small amount of the >> deglazing liquid. Suck all the air out of the ziploc bag and seal. The >> polyethylene should firmly cover the meat and liquid. There should be no >> air. Then the bagged meat goes into a water bath at about 150F, and sits >> there until the meat temp is about 130F. I'm going to use a ceramic >> crockpot on warm, which hits about 150F. This all should give you a good >> char, with edge to edge rare meat, with muscle breakdown because of the >> slow cooking. >> >> As you probably well know this is the rage in restaurants these days, and >> is called sous vide, or "under vacuum". By doing the above, a lot of >> money is saved on equipment you're only going to periodically use. I had >> a good talk today with an engineering person at the Johnson Co., makers >> of Ziploc. They say ziploc will tolerate safely this type of cooking >> without breakdown of the polyethylene, as long as you don't cook above >> 235F, where it breaks down. Even when and if it breaks down, it doesn't >> create a health hazard, only overcooked dry meat. >> >> To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in >> food and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times >> bought 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced >> it to espagnole, and to demiglace. >> >> That alone, obviously, doesn't make you a "chef". However we've traveled >> and dined throughout France, the rest of Europe. and Asia. We've managed >> to dine in about 15 Michelin 3 star restaurants. At that time all >> Michelin Restaurants were in France, save for one in Belgium. When you >> get home, we have somewhat naively tried to duplicate what we ate >> overseas. We have about 300 cookbooks to read while trying to get to >> sleep and in the kitchen while hovering over the stove. >> >> We both love to cook. Obviously you do too. Regardless of what you read >> into my rhetoric, I greatly enjoy this NG and learn from it. Cooking is >> all about common sense and trying to do something better that what's on >> paper. > > > That's all good. But Escoffier et al were not the *last* word on French > cooking, just one of the originals. Just because a recipe or a procedure > is not enshrined in one of their tomes does not mean it is not "French." > And things do change over the centuries, like techniques for sauces. > > It's all good. > > Paul > And they change their nomenclature. I like Beurre Monte Rouges. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message > ... >> Steve Pope wrote: >>> Paul M. Cook > wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Nobody cooks like that anymore. I mean come on, a half dozen >>>>Maine lobsters to make sauce for 4 people? Very wasteful and that >>>>symbolized a lot of the old French style. >>> >>> >>> Entire lobsters? Or just the shells? I could envision a bisque-like >>> sauce that involved the shells. >>> >>> Steve >> >> There is also an edition of his book for the home cook where in the >> amounts are modified for the home cook. >> >> The market for cook books was different when it was first published than >> it is now. But it is still in print. >> >> The original was written for the trade. And in amounts more common to >> commercial establishments or large households with kitchen staff. The >> man was a military veteran, and a working chef for the rest of his >> professional life, head Chef of several of the best hotels of his day and >> iirc responsible for setting up the original kitchens at the Waldorf >> Astoria in NYC. >> >> Anyone familiar with August Escoffier's work knows he decries waste and >> excess as much as he demands absolute freshness in all his ingredients. > > His definition of waste would not be the one we recognize today. > >> His text does contain some historical curiosities where in he starts the >> recipe with words to the effect that "this recipe is rarely produced >> today although it was quite common in days gone by" >> >> And in his section home made liquors he adds "which is to be much >> regretted" .... that people don't make these home made liquors any more >> (circa 1921 c.e.) > > By waste he meant food that was left to spoil. He did not consider a > sumptuous feast of ingredients that could feed an entire family of 12 just > to make a sauce for 2 to be a waste. Now it those ingredients spoiled, > that was a waste. He cooked for the wealthy who demanded sumptuous and > extravagant dishes. No expense was spared to that end. Waste as in 20 > pounds of seafood to make a soup for a table of 4 or a whole 100 pound sea > turtle for soup for the same table was not an offense to their standards. > Back then there was ample supply and ample money. Waste had a whole > different definition. > > Paul > > One description of this I read suggested this is a recipe for a sort of blenderized newberg. You create a thicker spread you put on toast, or something. Actually it sounds good, and would work with leftover Dungeness crab. Kent |
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Chateaubriand ideas
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message ... > > "Kent" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Kent" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> >>>> "M. JL Esq." > wrote in message >>>> ... >>>>> Kent wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul, I'd suggest browning the meat in the roasting pan on top of the >>>>>> stove to give it a good surface char, and then placing it in the oven >>>>>> at a lower >>>>> >>>>> One could also marinate the meat for 24 - 48 hours in either Madeira, >>>>> marsalla, port or even a good red burgundy, then, after browning on >>>>> top of the stove place in a pot just big enough to hold it and just >>>>> cover with the marinating wine and any extra stock or water necessary >>>>> to just cover the meat and braise it till done, replenishing liquid as >>>>> necessary. Braising on a bed of veggies (carrots, onions, celery etc.) >>>>> is a good addition and then filter the braising liquid, defat and >>>>> serve au jus or add a thickening agent such as a burrre manie >>>>> -- >>>>> JL >>>>> >>>>> >>>> With filet mignon? You're obviously kidding. My suggestion was a change >>>> to the original recipe suggested by Christine. >>>> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 >>> >>> No he is not kidding. Wine marinated prime rib roast is a pretty damn >>> good dish. Just because Escoffier didn't come up with the idea does not >>> make it bad. >>> >>> Kent, you seem like quite a dilettante to me. You have committed a >>> couple of French cookbooks from 1900 to memory and now you profess to >>> know all. And you scoff at anything not on those blessed pages. Do you >>> actually cook? I suspect not. >>> >>> Dilettante. >>> >>> Paul >>> >> Paul, I, and my wife, have cooked a lot, for many years. Now that I'm >> retired that occupies most of the day for both of us. >> I have an idea for a Chateaubriand like yours that I'm going to try. >> >> Brown it in a roasting pan over high heat. Remove from heat and rest it. >> Thoroughly deglaze the pan with wine. Pour that off and save for sauce as >> has been discussed in chef Eric Ripert's recipe. Then put browned meat >> into a one gallon double ziploc bag with very small amount of the >> deglazing liquid. Suck all the air out of the ziploc bag and seal. The >> polyethylene should firmly cover the meat and liquid. There should be no >> air. Then the bagged meat goes into a water bath at about 150F, and sits >> there until the meat temp is about 130F. I'm going to use a ceramic >> crockpot on warm, which hits about 150F. This all should give you a good >> char, with edge to edge rare meat, with muscle breakdown because of the >> slow cooking. >> >> As you probably well know this is the rage in restaurants these days, and >> is called sous vide, or "under vacuum". By doing the above, a lot of >> money is saved on equipment you're only going to periodically use. I had >> a good talk today with an engineering person at the Johnson Co., makers >> of Ziploc. They say ziploc will tolerate safely this type of cooking >> without breakdown of the polyethylene, as long as you don't cook above >> 235F, where it breaks down. Even when and if it breaks down, it doesn't >> create a health hazard, only overcooked dry meat. >> >> To answer your cooking question, we've always been very interested in >> food and have cooked in earnest for many years. I have several times >> bought 100lb of veal and beef trimmings to make brown stock, then reduced >> it to espagnole, and to demiglace. >> >> That alone, obviously, doesn't make you a "chef". However we've traveled >> and dined throughout France, the rest of Europe. and Asia. We've managed >> to dine in about 15 Michelin 3 star restaurants. At that time all >> Michelin Restaurants were in France, save for one in Belgium. When you >> get home, we have somewhat naively tried to duplicate what we ate >> overseas. We have about 300 cookbooks to read while trying to get to >> sleep and in the kitchen while hovering over the stove. >> >> We both love to cook. Obviously you do too. Regardless of what you read >> into my rhetoric, I greatly enjoy this NG and learn from it. Cooking is >> all about common sense and trying to do something better that what's on >> paper. > > > That's all good. But Escoffier et al were not the *last* word on French > cooking, just one of the originals. Just because a recipe or a procedure > is not enshrined in one of their tomes does not mean it is not "French." > And things do change over the centuries, like techniques for sauces. > > It's all good. > > Paul > Of interest, I just noticed that the picture of the chateaubriand shows a slight brown ring and the meat looks overly rare in the center. http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44458 Kent |
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